My favorite Joseph Smith story ever. What's yours?

[justkeepswimming]

What I loved most about JS was his unyielding self confidence. He had what I believe all of us want, to be so confident in his relationship with Deity that he dared to do anything no matter the social consequences.

My favorite story by far is when he taught a lesson in Nauvoo about the Word of Wisdom only to later stroll down main street on a horse smoking a cigar!

I love this story because if you can separate the man JS as an individual from the church he founded, you can gain an interesting insight into what he thought was necessary for him to gain continued favor with Deity. Can you imagine what he felt while doing that? Was he commanded by God to do that only to test JS, to see if he'd actually do the opposite of what he just taught against, or did Joseph, as a man, choose to test those under his stewardship?

What I see in JS is the most moldable tool God has ever had access to. A man who had no fear of what people thought of him, a man who would risk his own integrity to those who listened to him. Are we of the same mold as JS or are we like the men he had just taught, afraid to approach God on our own terms, with enough self-confidence, to believe God could test us in a similar way?

Do we want to really be like JS, and really have the confidence to make those tough decisions before our Lord?

[drtanner]

Never heard the story. Where did you read about it?

[inho]

Never heard the story. Where did you read about it?

I haven't heard that story before either, so I googled and found this:

Abraham H. Cannon made an entry in his diary stating that Amasa Lyman saw Joseph Smith smoking the cigar immediately after delivering a sermon on the Word of Wisdom and that he immediately afterward "rode through the streets smoking a cigar" in order to try "the faith of the Saints." At the time that Lyman made this accusation, he had already been excommunicated from the Church.

FAIR

[inho]

I think one of my favourite stories is this:

A man came up and said that a poor brother who lived out some distance from town had had his house burned down the night before. Nearly all of the men said they felt sorry for the man. Joseph put his hand in his pocket, took out five dollars and said, ‘I feel sorry for this brother to the amount of five dollars; how much do you all feel sorry?

Juvenile Instructor, vol 27 no 20, p 641

I like the example Joseph gives here. The way we live our lives is what matters. It doesn't matter what we believe or know if we don't show love and charity in our actions.

[marc]

Do we want to really be like JS, and really have the confidence to make those tough decisions before our Lord?

I don't know if I want to be like JS, but I have been tested like that to make tough decisions. I would not be surprised if I have to face yet tougher decisions. Whatever the Lord requires is right.

Here are some decisions I would also consider tough to be made:

1. Preaching naked and barefoot for three years in my home town.
2. Marry a harlot/prostitute knowing she will cheat on me and then name my children of harlotry according to God's commandment.
3. Lie down on my left side 390 days and then on my right side 40 days.
4. Go and preach repentance to a bloodthirsty people who would easily mutilate me as soon as they saw me.
5. Sacrifice my son.
6. Slay a man with his own sword while he's down and take his favorite book, which is locked in his safe.

etc.

[sushi_chef]

sushi_ kinda really likes this scene/depiction....

1876 jan 11

"It was at this juncture that Dr. Richmond reached Nauvoo, and went to the Nauvoo House.

He says: "As I entered the hall I saw a large, well-dressed individual seated on a trunk at the further end of the hall, quietly smoking a cigar, who was pointed out to me as Joseph Smith. He was over six feet tall, of heavy build, with broad shoulders light hair and complexion, light blue eyes, long nose, a retreating forehead, large brain and short neck. The impression on me was a mingled one. He was easy in his manners, and seemed sure of an acquittal if he could get a fair hearing. Presently he mounted a beautiful chestnut horse, and with this brother and others rode up Main street to Masonic Hall, where the State arms were delivered up. Hyrum Smith was even taller than the prophet, slim built, with light hair and blue eyes, and impressed me as being a quiet, well-disposed man. The Prophet was quietly talking while the arms were being thrown into the wagon. He told Capt. Dunn that his boys would do nothing wrong, that they were good boys, and as he turned his horse toward Carthage he waived his hand to his friends and said: "You are good boys; farewell, if I never see you again." It was midnight when the Smiths reached Carthage. A thousand men were encamped there. "Death to the Prophet" was the watchword. Gov. Ford was a man of small stature, with dark hair and complexion. He seemed to be without energy or courage. While the Prophet and his brother were undergoing at Carthage the mockery of an examination on a charge of riot. Gov. Ford visited Nauvoo with an escort of sixty men and in a timid address showed that he believed himself unable to control the mob which was thirsting for Mormon blood. The wives of Joseph and Hyrum set on foot a petition praying that the Governor would protect the defenseless women and children of the city from violence). It was signed by large numbers of women, and was received by Ford with respect, and even with emotion, Joseph's wife presenting it in person accompanying it with a brief history of their troubles and a statement of their apprehensions.""

　　　　　　　　http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/IL/whig1870.htm
　　　　　　　　http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%22+ ... -8&aq=&oq=

[Robin Hood]

One of my favourite stories relates to Joseph's ability to forgive.
I am thinking particularly of the W. W. Phelps incident.

"Come on dear brother, since the war is past, for friends at first are friends again at last".

[kittycat51]

sushi_ kinda really likes this scene/depiction....

1876 jan 11

"It was at this juncture that Dr. Richmond reached Nauvoo, and went to the Nauvoo House.

He says: "As I entered the hall I saw a large, well-dressed individual seated on a trunk at the further end of the hall, quietly smoking a cigar, who was pointed out to me as Joseph Smith. He was over six feet tall, of heavy build, with broad shoulders light hair and complexion, light blue eyes, long nose, a retreating forehead, large brain and short neck. The impression on me was a mingled one. He was easy in his manners, and seemed sure of an acquittal if he could get a fair hearing. Presently he mounted a beautiful chestnut horse, and with this brother and others rode up Main street to Masonic Hall, where the State arms were delivered up. Hyrum Smith was even taller than the prophet, slim built, with light hair and blue eyes, and impressed me as being a quiet, well-disposed man. The Prophet was quietly talking while the arms were being thrown into the wagon. He told Capt. Dunn that his boys would do nothing wrong, that they were good boys, and as he turned his horse toward Carthage he waived his hand to his friends and said: "You are good boys; farewell, if I never see you again." It was midnight when the Smiths reached Carthage. A thousand men were encamped there. "Death to the Prophet" was the watchword. Gov. Ford was a man of small stature, with dark hair and complexion. He seemed to be without energy or courage. While the Prophet and his brother were undergoing at Carthage the mockery of an examination on a charge of riot. Gov. Ford visited Nauvoo with an escort of sixty men and in a timid address showed that he believed himself unable to control the mob which was thirsting for Mormon blood. The wives of Joseph and Hyrum set on foot a petition praying that the Governor would protect the defenseless women and children of the city from violence). It was signed by large numbers of women, and was received by Ford with respect, and even with emotion, Joseph's wife presenting it in person accompanying it with a brief history of their troubles and a statement of their apprehensions.""

　　　　　　　　http://www.sidneyrigdon.com/dbroadhu/IL/whig1870.htm
　　　　　　　　http://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?p=%22+ ... -8&aq=&oq=

I find it interesting that all of this information comes from excommunicated Mormons or those who left the church for the RLDS. Also the newspapers cited are outside the realm of where the Church was located and thriving in 1876. What was their true intent?

[Rand]

I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

[justkeepswimming]

K, so the reference to Isaiah made me lol.

Here's why I love the story I referenced: it's not extreme like the ones you mentioned. I think we expect the extreme from God, we mentally prepare for a God who wants nothing less than the extreme. But I think the true tests come with something as banal and almost boring when compared to your examples, as teaching the WoW and then breaking it in front of those you taught.

Marc, imagine for a moment, you felt 100% impressed to teach this weeks EQ lesson about the W of W and 15 min before the lesson, that voice you know all too well, says go to 7-11, buy a case of beer, take it to your lesson, and then drink one in the parking lot while walking to your car after you teach. That's the equivalent of what JS did. It's harder to do that in my mind than the extreme because we never think of a God who doesn't ask for the impossible.

Great response. Thanks.

Do we want to really be like JS, and really have the confidence to make those tough decisions before our Lord?

I don't know if I want to be like JS, but I have been tested like that to make tough decisions. I would not be surprised if I have to face yet tougher decisions. Whatever the Lord requires is right.

Here are some decisions I would also consider tough to be made:

1. Preaching naked and barefoot for three years in my home town.
2. Marry a harlot/prostitute knowing she will cheat on me and then name my children of harlotry according to God's commandment.
3. Lie down on my left side 390 days and then on my right side 40 days.
4. Go and preach repentance to a bloodthirsty people who would easily mutilate me as soon as they saw me.
5. Sacrifice my son.
6. Slay a man with his own sword while he's down and take his favorite book, which is locked in his safe.

etc.

[marc]

K, so the reference to Isaiah made me lol.

Here's why I love the story I referenced: it's not extreme like the ones you mentioned. I think we expect the extreme from God, we mentally prepare for a God who wants nothing less than the extreme. But I think the true tests come with something as banal and almost boring when compared to your examples, as teaching the WoW and then breaking it in front of those you taught.

Marc, imagine for a moment, you felt 100% impressed to teach this weeks EQ lesson about the W of W and 15 min before the lesson, that voice you know all too well, says go to 7-11, buy a case of beer, take it to your lesson, and then drink one in the parking lot while walking to your car after you teach. That's the equivalent of what JS did. It's harder to do that in my mind than the extreme because we never think of a God who doesn't ask for the impossible.

Great response. Thanks.

That would be something especially considering I have never once put my lips to a beer can or bottle in my life. I made the decision never to drink when I was a boy and have been true to it ever since. I have no clue how my body would react to one can of beer.

[SmallFarm]

This one:

During the Zion’s Camp expedition in the summer of 1834, an incident occurred that allowed a practical application of concern for animal life. As related by the Prophet Joseph Smith in his history:

“In pitching my tent we found three massasaugas or prairie rattlesnakes, which the brethren were about to kill, but I said, ‘Let them alone—don’t hurt them! How will the serpent ever lose his venom, while the servants of God possess the same disposition, and continue to make war upon it? Men must become harmless, before the brute creation; and when men lose their vicious dispositions and cease to destroy the animal race, the lion and the lamb can dwell together, and the sucking child can play with the serpent in safety.’ The brethren took the serpents carefully on sticks and carried them across the creek. I exhorted the brethren not to kill a serpent, bird, or an animal of any kind during our journey unless it became necessary in order to preserve ourselves from hunger.” (Documentary History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 71–72.)

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/08/the- ... s?lang=eng

[True]

An account from Elizabeth Whitney:

"One night, it was midnight—my husband and I were in our house at Kirtland, praying to the Father to be shown the way when the Spirit rested upon us and a cloud overshadowed the house. It was as though we were out of doors. The house passed away from our vision. We were not conscious of anything but the presence of the spirit and the cloud that was over us. We were wrapped in the cloud. A solemn awe pervaded us. We saw the cloud and felt the Spirit of the Lord. Then we heard a voice out of the cloud saying, 'Prepare to receive the word of the Lord, for it is coming.' At this we marveled greatly, but from that moment we knew that the word of the Lord was coming to Kirtland."

In the Whitney family history, they write that "about the first of February, 1831, a sleigh containing four persons, drove through the streets of Kirtland and drew up in front of Gilbert & Whitney's store. The occupants of the sleigh were evenly divided as to sex. One of the men, a young and stalwart personage, alighted, and springing up the steps walked into the store and to where the junior partner was standing. 'Newel K. Whitney, thou art the man!' he exclaimed, extending his hand cordially, as if to an old and familiar acquaintance.

Newel K. Whitney Meets Joseph Smith "'You have the advantage of me,' replied the one addressed, as he mechanically took the proffered hand. 'I could not call you by name as you have me.'

"'I am Joseph the Prophet' said the stranger, smiling. 'You've prayed me here; now what do you want of me?' The Prophet, it is said, while in the East, had seen the Whitneys, in a vision, praying for his coming to Kirtland.

"Newell Whitney, astonished, but no less delighted, conducted the party across the street to his house on the corner, where he introduced them to his wife. She shared fully his surprise and pleasure. Elizabeth Whitney writes, 'I remarked to my husband that this was the fulfillment of the vision we had seen of a cloud, as of glory, resting upon our house.'

[brlenox]

One of my favorites of all time recorded in the autobiography of Parley P. Pratt:

Chapter 26

I must not forget to state that when we arrived in Richmond as prisoners there were some fifty others, mostly heads of families, who had been marched from Caldwell on foot (distance 30 miles), and were now penned up in a cold, open, unfinished court house, in which situation they remained for some weeks, while their families were suffering severe privations.

The next morning after our dialogue with General Clark he again entered our prison and informed us that he had concluded to deliver us over to the civil authorities for an examining trial. He was then asked why he did not do away with the unlawful decree of banishment, which was first ordered by General Lucas, in compliance with the Governor's order, and which compelled thousands of citizens to leave the State. Or upon what principle the military power aided the civil law against us, while at the same time it caused our families and friends to be murdered, plundered and driven, contrary to all law?

He replied that he approved of all the proceedings of General Lucas, and should not alter them. I make this statement because some writers have commended Clark for his heroic, merciful, and prudent conduct towards our society, and have endeavored to make it appear that Clark was not to be blamed for any of the measures of Lucas.

The Court of Inquiry now commenced, before Judge Austin A. King. This continued from the 11th to 28th of November, and our brethren, some fifty in number, were penned up in the cold, dreary court house. It was a very severe time of snow and winter weather, and we suffered much. During this time Elder Rigdon was taken very sick, from hardship and exposure, and finally lost his reason; but still he was kept in a miserable, noisy and cold room, and compelled to sleep on the floor with a chain and padlock round his ankle, and fastened to six others. Here he endured the constant noise and confusion of an unruly guard, the officer of which was Colonel Sterling Price, since Governor of the State.

These guards were composed generally of the most noisy, foul-mouthed, vulgar, disgraceful rabble that ever defiled the earth. While he lay in this situation his son-in-law, George W. Robinson, the only male member of his family, was chained by his side. Thus Mrs. Rigdon and her daughters were left entirely destitute and unprotected. One of his daughters, Mrs. Robinson, a young and delicate female, with her little infant, came down to see her husband, and to comfort and take care of her father in his sickness. When she first entered the room, amid the clank of chains and the rattle of weapons, and cast her eyes on her sick and dejected parent and sorrow worn husband, she was speechless, and only gave vent to her feelings in a flood of tears. This faithful lady, with her little infant, continued by the side of her father till he recovered from his sickness, and till his fevered and disordered mind resumed its wonted powers.

In one of those tedious nights we had lain as if in sleep till the hour of midnight had passed, and our ears and hearts bad been pained, while we had listened for hours to the obscene jests, the horrid oaths, the dreadful blasphemies and filthy language of our guards, Colonel Price at their head, as they recounted to each other their deeds of rapine, murder, robbery, etc., which they had committed among the "Mormons" while at Far West and vicinity. They even boasted of defiling by force wives, daughters and virgins, and of shooting or dashing out the brains of men, women and children.

I had listened till I became so disgusted, shocked, horrified, and so filled with the spirit of indignant justice that I could scarcely refrain from rising upon my feet and rebuking the guards; but had said nothing to Joseph, or any one else, although I lay next to him and knew he was awake. On a sudden he arose to his feet, and spoke in a voice of thunder, or as the roaring lion, uttering, as near as I can recollect, the following words:

SILENCE, ye fiends of the infernal pit. In the name of Jesus Christ I rebuke you, and command you to be still; I will not live another minute and hear such language. Cease such talk, or you or I die THIS INSTANT!

He ceased to speak. He stood erect in terrible majesty. Chained, and without a weapon; calm, unruffled and dignified as an angel, he looked upon the quailing guards, whose weapons were lowered or dropped to the ground; whose knees smote together, and who, shrinking into a corner, or crouching at his feet, begged his pardon, and remained quiet till a change of guards.

I have seen the ministers of justice, clothed in magisterial robes, and criminals arraigned before them, while life was suspended on a breath, in the Courts of England; I have witnessed a Congress in solemn session to give laws to nations; I have tried to conceive of kings, of royal courts, of thrones and crowns; and of emperors assembled to decide the fate of kingdoms; but dignity and majesty have I seen but once, as it stood in chains, at midnight, in a dungeon in an obscure village of Missouri.

[justkeepswimming]

And the church just gave $10 million to homelessness in SLC, proving they still intend to keep up what JS started. I like this story too.

I think one of my favourite stories is this:

A man came up and said that a poor brother who lived out some distance from town had had his house burned down the night before. Nearly all of the men said they felt sorry for the man. Joseph put his hand in his pocket, took out five dollars and said, ‘I feel sorry for this brother to the amount of five dollars; how much do you all feel sorry?

Juvenile Instructor, vol 27 no 20, p 641

I like the example Joseph gives here. The way we live our lives is what matters. It doesn't matter what we believe or know if we don't show love and charity in our actions.

[justkeepswimming]

Your story makes me remember how much JS emphasized friends. Wasn't it in Nauvoo, near the end, when he was betrayed by some friends that he said something to the affect of, if I have no friends I have nothing?

I know we are a church that loves to get all love crazy over family but his feelings toward the relationship of friends has always stayed with me.

One of my favourite stories relates to Joseph's ability to forgive.
I am thinking particularly of the W. W. Phelps incident.

"Come on dear brother, since the war is past, for friends at first are friends again at last".

[eddie]

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

[brlenox]

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

[JustDan]

Once, as the Mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois he was told of a black man in Nauvoo named Anthony who had sold liquor on Sunday; which was a violation of the Nauvoo City Code. Mormon writer Mary Frost Adams tells us what happened:

“While he was acting as mayor of the city, a coloured man named Anthony was arrested for selling liquor on Sunday, contrary to law. He pleaded that the reason he had done so was that he might raise the money to purchase the liberty of a dear child held as a slave in a Southern State. He had been able to purchase the liberty of himself and his wife and now wished to bring his little child to their new home. Joseph said, ‘I am sorry, Anthony, but the law must be observed and we will have to impose a fine.’ The next day Brother Joseph presented Anthony with a fine horse, directing him to sell it, and use the money obtained for the purchase of the child.” (Young Woman’s Journal, p.538)

http://www.blacklds.org/quotes
http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Tran ... aslind.htm

[justkeepswimming]

And that's why the man is a legend!

Once, as the Mayor of Nauvoo, Illinois he was told of a black man in Nauvoo named Anthony who had sold liquor on Sunday; which was a violation of the Nauvoo City Code. Mormon writer Mary Frost Adams tells us what happened:

“While he was acting as mayor of the city, a coloured man named Anthony was arrested for selling liquor on Sunday, contrary to law. He pleaded that the reason he had done so was that he might raise the money to purchase the liberty of a dear child held as a slave in a Southern State. He had been able to purchase the liberty of himself and his wife and now wished to bring his little child to their new home. Joseph said, ‘I am sorry, Anthony, but the law must be observed and we will have to impose a fine.’ The next day Brother Joseph presented Anthony with a fine horse, directing him to sell it, and use the money obtained for the purchase of the child.” (Young Woman’s Journal, p.538)

http://www.blacklds.org/quotes
http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Tran ... aslind.htm

[justkeepswimming]

Or you can just complain to Brian and I'll tone it down for you

I'd like to stay and post so I'm toning it down for that reason. I have a feel for this forum now, that's what I wanted to measure. I get where I went too far and although I'd like to talk about JS w/o having to be so gentle and w/o having to requote the usual faith promoting stories we've all heard a million times, I will do as Brian has requested.

I am very comfortable in my ability to see JS as God's chosen prophet while simultaneously anaylzing his personal flaws, and talking about those flaws. I now see that I can't do that and I won't push the limits any more.

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

[drtanner]

Or you can just complain to Brian and I'll tone it down for you

I'd like to stay and post so I'm toning it down for that reason. I have a feel for this forum now, that's what I wanted to measure. I get where I went too far and although I'd like to talk about JS w/o having to be so gentle and w/o having to requote the usual faith promoting stories we've all heard a million times, I will do as Brian has requested.

I am very comfortable in my ability to see JS as God's chosen prophet while simultaneously anaylzing his personal flaws, and talking about those flaws. I now see that I can't do that and I won't push the limits any more.

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

justkeepswimming Honest question, have you left the LDS church or in the process?

[justkeepswimming]

Still in

Or you can just complain to Brian and I'll tone it down for you

I'd like to stay and post so I'm toning it down for that reason. I have a feel for this forum now, that's what I wanted to measure. I get where I went too far and although I'd like to talk about JS w/o having to be so gentle and w/o having to requote the usual faith promoting stories we've all heard a million times, I will do as Brian has requested.

I am very comfortable in my ability to see JS as God's chosen prophet while simultaneously anaylzing his personal flaws, and talking about those flaws. I now see that I can't do that and I won't push the limits any more.

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

justkeepswimming Honest question, have you left the LDS church or in the process?

[drtanner]

Still in

Or you can just complain to Brian and I'll tone it down for you

I'd like to stay and post so I'm toning it down for that reason. I have a feel for this forum now, that's what I wanted to measure. I get where I went too far and although I'd like to talk about JS w/o having to be so gentle and w/o having to requote the usual faith promoting stories we've all heard a million times, I will do as Brian has requested.

I am very comfortable in my ability to see JS as God's chosen prophet while simultaneously anaylzing his personal flaws, and talking about those flaws. I now see that I can't do that and I won't push the limits any more.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

justkeepswimming Honest question, have you left the LDS church or in the process?

Do you still believe in the church? Sustain those who lead it? Are you occasionally attending or interested in another group or teaching?

[eddie]

Or you can just complain to Brian and I'll tone it down for you

I'd like to stay and post so I'm toning it down for that reason. I have a feel for this forum now, that's what I wanted to measure. I get where I went too far and although I'd like to talk about JS w/o having to be so gentle and w/o having to requote the usual faith promoting stories we've all heard a million times, I will do as Brian has requested.

I am very comfortable in my ability to see JS as God's chosen prophet while simultaneously anaylzing his personal flaws, and talking about those flaws. I now see that I can't do that and I won't push the limits any more.

I believe all these threads posted, are meant to demean Joseph Smith's character, causing doubt as to him being a Prophet. The poster is manipulating the thread with his thanks and praise, in an attempt to seem sincere. Posting stories like this, from people who had been excommunicated, is far from factual.
Shall we say a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Joseph Smith refused liquor for pain relief during an operation to remove bone in his leg, I understand he was a mortal with human failings, but I also know he is a prophet of God who gave his young life, and ultimately his life to death in the work of the restoration! I am forever grateful to this young Prophet of God.

Eddie - I second the motion. You are absolutely completely on target. I planned on waiting until the emphasis began to shift more to the actual mentality that this individual is going to eventually get to as I feel they are compelled by a dishonest spirit manifest in this very graceful deception. I wanted to watch and suspect that "talking out loud" will not alter the "act" just perhaps the timeline of events. I always feel like these kind of things can be very instructive to all of us as we are seeking to understand the wiles of the evil one and just how carefully it is that he can lead us down to hell. This may be a watch and learn for those willing to learn.

I have not turned you in to Brian, you are weak, just like Joseph Smith and all of us are, and yet the Lord trusted an uneducated farm boy to restore the fullness of the gospel to the earth. The Lord accomplishes His plan through the weak things of the earth.