More Changes to Missionary Program

[Yahtzee]

Pray tell... what are your theories?

Ha-ha oh man, if I only dared? Actually the "phone" thing or technology as already mentioned is a great theory, but not totally what I was thinking. I'm afraid I would be mocked for my thoughts.

I'll share mine.
Anxiety runs in my family. Severe depression (including suicide) goes back at least 4 generations on my husband's side. So we watch our kids closely. Homeschooling has helped a lot. I actually don't see any of the severe anxiety my child exhibited after his first year in government school. I still worry it'll pop back up.
I think there's a strong environmental factor - especially with diet. If missionaries truly can't afford anything but ramen, well no wonder they're struggling! I am extremely sensitive to processed food.

Social media is a proven stress. I cringe when my nephews send their mission emails. Every week everything is awesome and amazing. What a terrible mission!! It's like reading filtered Instagram posts.

But my main theory is sociological. Children are not allowed to fail anymore so when they do they can't handle it. Nothing is more important than school (even learning the gospel) so there's no balance and because school is so important parents and teachers don't let their kids have mistakes that could affect college or testing scores. We're coddling our youth so they don't leave the nest until 25, but at the same time stressing them out too much over trivialities while their brains are still developing. I can't find another kid whose parents will let them wander around with my kids. They're either over scheduled or have paranoid parents. You can't build self confidence if you aren't allowed down time to create and explore and fail!

Missionaries in our area are not eating ramen, they are fed by the members six days a week, all year long. In my two daughters' areas, they did not get fed every day, but they still ate well. And as for sensitivity to processed foods, I think you are an exception--most of us are fine eating all kinds of foods. We had a missionary who was gluten free and the members accomodated his special diet.

I also don't understand why you would cringe at your nephews' emails. Did it occur to you that they really are enjoying their service? My girls did, and their missions were not easy. Those that I know come home and truly loved serving .

I also think you are over generalizing--I know a lot of great kids who work hard and are not coddled. I also know lots of wonderful parents, LDS and non-LDS who are raising very well-balanced, happy children who can actually handle their lives just fine.

It just seems like there's so much negativity toward missionary work and service being expressed on this thread. And a lot of criticism for anything that might be new or different. Why is there so little support for our leaders as they fulfill their stewardship in the Missionary work?

Of course I'm overgeneralizing. These are my own personal theories, as stated. And I'm not taking about most missionaries, I'm taking about those who are struggling with mental illness. Most people may be fine eating processed foods, but most people also don't have real mental illness (I'm not taking about getting down or worried).

I'm glad your girls had a good time, most people do and I do believe my nephews are. But I used to get mission letters sharing testimony and overcoming struggle. Now everything is "totes fab" all the time, just like on social media- which is a known cause of stress. So it's a theory.

And the negativity is because we're worried. My mother just returned from her mission working on the mission office and she'd tell me every week about someone going home for depression or anxiety. It's a real problem.

[EmmaLee]

I'd buy the cheap $100 tablets, seriously. Not sure why they decided $400 was a good price?

Yeah, no clue. We (the parents, who had to pay the $400) had no idea our son would even be getting/using an iPad until after he was out in the field, let alone that we would be forced to buy it. All the decisions were made in SLC - we just got the bill. This was in the summer of 2013 - they were iPad 'mini's'. Probably Crittendon's idea. He's wealthy enough, he should foot the bill for all the iPads, and now, iPhone's.

[EmmaLee]

Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles alluded to such changes June 28, 2017, at the annual seminar for new mission presidents. In late September, two missionary department representatives—General Authority Seventy Elder Brent H. Nielson and managing director Gary Crittenden—spoke to Mormon Newsroom about the reasons for these coming changes and the areas of missionary work that will be impacted.

“We have really been focused on looking at absolutely every element of missionary operations, starting from when a missionary is thinking about preparing, through the experience that he has on his mission, and even the time after that,” Crittenden said. “And through that we’ve found opportunities where we think we can improve. Many of the changes we will talk about come from that analysis.”

“‘How can I find peace in my life?’ or ‘Is there a God?’ There tends to be a pattern for people who are asking,” Crittenden said. “In a world of 7.4 billion people, many online are involved in that search. They look at the same kinds of websites and seek the same kind of information. And it’s possible for us then, because they’ve asked that question, to put content in front of them that might be of interest to them. We are able to reach those who are actually searching for the truth.”

Gary Crittenden ... where have I heard that name before? That's right, former CFO of Citigroup fined $100K by the SEC. Apparently that was pocket change to him, though:

The S.E.C. settlement comes a year after Mr. Crittenden left Citigroup, but the $100,000 fine will probably tarnish Mr. Crittenden’s name more than it will hurt his pocket book.

In 2007, he took home nearly $20 million in total compensation from Citigroup, even though the company’s stock had fallen nearly 50 percent that year. He then took home another $12 million worth of stock in 2008 even though the bank nearly collapsed. Citigroup’s stock in total fell around 95 percent during Mr. Crittenden’s time at the bank.

Crittenden is one of the banksters that would be in jail today if there were any justice on Wall Street. But I'm sure the church's missionary program is in good hands, it being such a numbers game after all.

Wow!! I did not know this. Thank you for sharing this information. Sounds like Bro. Crittenden has certainly found his peace, truth, and god... How does someone like that get put in the missionary department of the LDS Church?? (mostly a rhetorical question)

[EmmaLee]

I think there's a strong environmental factor - especially with diet. If missionaries truly can't afford anything but ramen, well no wonder they're struggling! I am extremely sensitive to processed food.

We ate really poorly. Prepared food (eating out of any form) was very expensive, it was hard to find good vegetables, store food was not cheap, and we averaged 1 meal/ month with members. I usually ate pasta, sauce, and a vegetable (sometimes). Oh, and lucky us, we got to skip dinner, yay! And to top it all off, I was yelled at for spending too much on food, go figure.

Lots of them have "food allergies", ADD, ADHD, autistic symptoms, are overweight...

Our son who went to northern Cali (VERY expensive) on his mission was given less per month on his mission debit card to buy groceries, than our sons who served in South America, where it was MUCH less expensive to live/buy food - go figure. Not sure who sets that amount, the mission president or SLC or Bro. Crittenden. The well-off (and some downright rich) members in Cali were not as charitable as the members in SA, as our Cali son and his comps would only get invited to eat at member's homes about 2-3 times a week (and they had a comically long list of restrictions as to who/what/where/when they were allowed to eat with, which eliminated their even being able to eat with most members), whereas in South America, it was dinner at member's homes every single day, even though they usually had less money/food to feed the missionaries with. Interesting dichotomy.

We've noticed the same thing with food allergies and dietary restrictions in the missionaries (and other people, too, of course) in the last few years - they have gone WAY up, ridiculously so. Even one decade ago, when we fed the missionaries it never even occurred to us to ask if they had any special dietary requirements. Now, it's just a given that one or more of the missionaries (we have one set of Elders and one set of Sisters in our ward) will have some specific dietary needs (gluten/wheat/dairy/etc. intolerant, diabetic, won't eat meat, etc.) to be considered when having them over for dinner. I'm more than happy to feed them anyway, and to shop for special (and without fail, very expensive) food items, etc. but I've also heard from other ward members who do not want to bother with all these extra requirements and cost, so they have stopped feeding the missionaries altogether - and looking at the missionary meals sign-up calendar every Sunday, it shows, unfortunately. One woman just last Sunday was talking after RS, and she said she put milk in the casserole she made for the missionaries - then remembered to look at the dietary restrictions listed for the missionaries on the RS FB page, and had to start all over again without using milk this time because one of the sisters can't have dairy. Not a huge deal, to be sure, but sadly it's enough to sway some folks from bothering to feed them.

[EmmaLee]

I love the missionaries. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm thankful there are people - young and old - willing to give of their time, talents, and resources to go out and share the gospel with the world. Bless them! I absolutely applaud anyone that serves a mission with a sincere desire to serve the Lord. If/when done properly, it is extremely hard, but satisfying, work. Are there problems? Yep. Saying there are not problems related to serving a mission in 2017 is kind of silly. It's always silly to sweep problems under the rug and pretend they're not there. Why are changes ever made in regards to anything/everything? Because people see a need for change - because people see a problem and want to fix it. Ignoring less than pleasant aspects of anything isn't going to solve a flipping thing. Are people posting on this thread going to solve anything about how the Church does missionary work? Nope, but it helps most people just to talk about stuff. Am I going to leave the Church because one of our son's mission presidents was a jerk? Or because a thief (Crittenden) is on the missionary board? Or because the missionaries use iPad and iPhones now? Heck no!! There have been problems administering the Church since Day 1 (literally, since Day 1), and there will continue to be problems administering the Church till the day the Lord returns and takes over the reigns. Does that mean I don't like or sustain the current Church leadership? Heck no!! I sure wouldn't want to be in their shoes, and I do not envy their task one bit.

Sometimes it helps to discuss things that we have in common. Many things talked about in this thread are common to many of us, and it's good to know there are others who have similar concerns and experiences and desires for their kids - it bonds people together. Will the Church's missionary department read this thread (lol) and make changes? No, of course not - and none of us can even say that they should. The main purpose of internet forums are so people can express their opinions - and as long as the forum rules have not been broken, people should not try to shut down conversation. If someone doesn't like this thread, or they don't agree with opinions expressed therein (or if they don't see or acknowledge the same problems many of us do see and acknowledge), and the forum rules aren't being broken - there are plenty of other threads to read through and comment on. Having things in common brings people together - it helps them to not feel alone in their trials and struggles.

I'm sorry that kittycat51 didn't feel she could share her opinions because she worried someone might attack or mock her. Sad. Ah well, 'tis the nature of telestial mankind, and Mormons aren't any different, unfortunately. Kittycat, if you're reading this, I would sincerely appreciate hearing what you wanted to say - please reconsider posting your thoughts, or send me a PM (really).

Those here who are sincere LDS members, of course, want the missionaries to reach as many people as they can - to teach and share the gospel with the whole world. Nothing is more awesome than to see someone learn the gospel, believe it, then get baptized (for the right reasons - and yes, there are 'right' and 'wrong' reasons that people get baptized) - and then, joy of all joys - they really come to understand and accept and LIVE the gospel of Jesus Christ. THAT is a real convert. And that only happens when the Holy Ghost is involved, regardless of any other circumstances or situations. The Lord said in Doctrine & Covenants 18:15 And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father! How awesome to be an instrument to help bring even one soul into the fold.

Here's something else the Lord said in Section 1:23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers. The best, most Christ-like, people I know are "weak and simple". I learn the most from them, too.

[JohnnyL]

Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles alluded to such changes June 28, 2017, at the annual seminar for new mission presidents. In late September, two missionary department representatives—General Authority Seventy Elder Brent H. Nielson and managing director Gary Crittenden—spoke to Mormon Newsroom about the reasons for these coming changes and the areas of missionary work that will be impacted.

“We have really been focused on looking at absolutely every element of missionary operations, starting from when a missionary is thinking about preparing, through the experience that he has on his mission, and even the time after that,” Crittenden said. “And through that we’ve found opportunities where we think we can improve. Many of the changes we will talk about come from that analysis.”

“‘How can I find peace in my life?’ or ‘Is there a God?’ There tends to be a pattern for people who are asking,” Crittenden said. “In a world of 7.4 billion people, many online are involved in that search. They look at the same kinds of websites and seek the same kind of information. And it’s possible for us then, because they’ve asked that question, to put content in front of them that might be of interest to them. We are able to reach those who are actually searching for the truth.”

Gary Crittenden ... where have I heard that name before? That's right, former CFO of Citigroup fined $100K by the SEC. Apparently that was pocket change to him, though:

The S.E.C. settlement comes a year after Mr. Crittenden left Citigroup, but the $100,000 fine will probably tarnish Mr. Crittenden’s name more than it will hurt his pocket book.

In 2007, he took home nearly $20 million in total compensation from Citigroup, even though the company’s stock had fallen nearly 50 percent that year. He then took home another $12 million worth of stock in 2008 even though the bank nearly collapsed. Citigroup’s stock in total fell around 95 percent during Mr. Crittenden’s time at the bank.

Crittenden is one of the banksters that would be in jail today if there were any justice on Wall Street. But I'm sure the church's missionary program is in good hands, it being such a numbers game after all.

Wow!! I did not know this. Thank you for sharing this information. Sounds like Bro. Crittenden has certainly found his peace, truth, and god... How does someone like that get put in the missionary department of the LDS Church?? (mostly a rhetorical question)

No doubt he gave a full time accounting of what he did and when, and the steps he took to repent.

[EmmaLee]

^^ Ha! And they still let him in...

[Robin Hood]

The fact that he was CFO at Monsanto should be enough of a red flag in my view.
But thankfully, it's not my call.

[EmmaLee]

The fact that he was CFO at Monsanto should be enough of a red flag in my view.
But thankfully, it's not my call.

Ugh, just gets better and better. I did a little reading on the fellow in question, and discovered that he was instrumental (or maybe just mental), played a key role, in the sale of Monsanto to Pharmacia & Upjohn. Question (at the risk of thread-jacking my own thread, lol) - WHY does a pharmaceutical company (you know, people who make the DRUGS that we ingest into our bodies) want to merge with Monsanto? (yet another of those rhetorical questions) Oh what a tangled web... In other good news, a dozen or so of the men in our ward (including our Bishop) work for Monsanto and other big seed splicing, gene mutating, life destroying companies. But they're just scientists.

[Yahtzee]

The fact that he was CFO at Monsanto should be enough of a red flag in my view.
But thankfully, it's not my call.

Ugh, just gets better and better. I did a little reading on the fellow in question, and discovered that he was instrumental (or maybe just mental), played a key role, in the sale of Monsanto to Pharmacia & Upjohn. Question (at the risk of thread-jacking my own thread, lol) - WHY does a pharmaceutical company (you know, people who make the DRUGS that we ingest into our bodies) want to merge with Monsanto? (yet another of those rhetorical questions) Oh what a tangled web... In other good news, a dozen or so of the men in our ward (including our Bishop) work for Monsanto and other big seed splicing, gene mutating, life destroying companies. But they're just scientists.

Ugh, I feel ya. Sometimes I just want to scream at people. "How do you rationalize this????"
You know, I used to struggle with Brigham Young and some of the things he did and said. When I prayed about it, I got the impression that the Lord needed that kind of man in charge in order to get the saints where he needed them.
I suppose that's why certain people get put in charge of other things, like the missionary department.

[JohnnyL]

I love the missionaries. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm thankful there are people - young and old - willing to give of their time, talents, and resources to go out and share the gospel with the world. Bless them! I absolutely applaud anyone that serves a mission with a sincere desire to serve the Lord. If/when done properly, it is extremely hard, but satisfying, work. Are there problems? Yep. Saying there are not problems related to serving a mission in 2017 is kind of silly. It's always silly to sweep problems under the rug and pretend they're not there. Why are changes ever made in regards to anything/everything? Because people see a need for change - because people see a problem and want to fix it. Ignoring less than pleasant aspects of anything isn't going to solve a flipping thing. Are people posting on this thread going to solve anything about how the Church does missionary work? Nope, but it helps most people just to talk about stuff. Am I going to leave the Church because one of our son's mission presidents was a jerk? Or because a thief (Crittenden) is on the missionary board? Or because the missionaries use iPad and iPhones now? Heck no!! There have been problems administering the Church since Day 1 (literally, since Day 1), and there will continue to be problems administering the Church till the day the Lord returns and takes over the reigns. Does that mean I don't like or sustain the current Church leadership? Heck no!! I sure wouldn't want to be in their shoes, and I do not envy their task one bit.

Sometimes it helps to discuss things that we have in common. Many things talked about in this thread are common to many of us, and it's good to know there are others who have similar concerns and experiences and desires for their kids - it bonds people together. Will the Church's missionary department read this thread (lol) and make changes? No, of course not - and none of us can even say that they should. The main purpose of internet forums are so people can express their opinions - and as long as the forum rules have not been broken, people should not try to shut down conversation. If someone doesn't like this thread, or they don't agree with opinions expressed therein (or if they don't see or acknowledge the same problems many of us do see and acknowledge), and the forum rules aren't being broken - there are plenty of other threads to read through and comment on. Having things in common brings people together - it helps them to not feel alone in their trials and struggles.

I'm sorry that kittycat51 didn't feel she could share her opinions because she worried someone might attack or mock her. Sad. Ah well, 'tis the nature of telestial mankind, and Mormons aren't any different, unfortunately. Kittycat, if you're reading this, I would sincerely appreciate hearing what you wanted to say - please reconsider posting your thoughts, or send me a PM (really).

Those here who are sincere LDS members, of course, want the missionaries to reach as many people as they can - to teach and share the gospel with the whole world. Nothing is more awesome than to see someone learn the gospel, believe it, then get baptized (for the right reasons - and yes, there are 'right' and 'wrong' reasons that people get baptized) - and then, joy of all joys - they really come to understand and accept and LIVE the gospel of Jesus Christ. THAT is a real convert. And that only happens when the Holy Ghost is involved, regardless of any other circumstances or situations. The Lord said in Doctrine & Covenants 18:15 And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father! How awesome to be an instrument to help bring even one soul into the fold.

Here's something else the Lord said in Section 1:23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers. The best, most Christ-like, people I know are "weak and simple". I learn the most from them, too.

Second it.

What I DON'T like are the ways they are being done, and the denial, anger, and blindness that problems are met with. It seems like straightening deck chairs on the Titanic and then clapping ourselves on the back when they line up.

I've mentioned some problems, and no one has been able to respond, so I'll put them up one last time:
Does anyone think 10% retention (one year later, not even two or five or 20 years later) of "converts" is pleasing?
That it's okay for someone who has been to RS for 20 minutes to get baptized?
That 90% of converts have never read a page in the Book of Mormon on their own?
That missionaries invite people to be baptized in the first discussion, and they can't even remember their name and don't care?
That it's okay for the missionaries to "dump" the newly baptized (I can't even use the word "convert" anymore because it almost never applies) on the ward and wash their hands of the matter?
That overcoming smoking--two hours before a baptism--is "good enough"?

I have story after story of missionaries much better than us on our missions, who are so pushed by numbers that they bully, push, break the rules, and don't follow rules, just so they can get a baptism/ be "successful"/ etc. There are myths that are handed down from generation to generation among the missionaries. The few missionaries that are open to instruction, always "have to check with our mission president" and it comes back, "No, we can't do that." The worst was when church leaders (GA's) responded in what must have been bitterness, rage, and retaliation to things I had written, and ignored everything else. I can't go into details because of a temple covenant, but it was very sad. You'd think that after the double European mission fiascos about numbers, we would have learned... It seems like not.

EmmaLee,
I think it's ironic that "someone" came up with a very lame pilot program and billed you $400 without any notice and all was okay. When the first counselor in the Rome mission helped the missionaries with clothing, etc. from the mission fund, he was excommunicated and the mission president almost sent home... Same principle, opposite direction, very different outcomes.

[Rensai]

I've mentioned some problems, and no one has been able to respond, so I'll put them up one last time:
Does anyone think 10% retention (one year later, not even two or five or 20 years later) of "converts" is pleasing?
That it's okay for someone who has been to RS for 20 minutes to get baptized?
That 90% of converts have never read a page in the Book of Mormon on their own?
That missionaries invite people to be baptized in the first discussion, and they can't even remember their name and don't care?
That it's okay for the missionaries to "dump" the newly baptized (I can't even use the word "convert" anymore because it almost never applies) on the ward and wash their hands of the matter?
That overcoming smoking--two hours before a baptism--is "good enough"?

I have story after story of missionaries much better than us on our missions, who are so pushed by numbers that they bully, push, break the rules, and don't follow rules, just so they can get a baptism/ be "successful"/ etc. There are myths that are handed down from generation to generation among the missionaries. The few missionaries that are open to instruction, always "have to check with our mission president" and it comes back, "No, we can't do that." The worst was when church leaders (GA's) responded in what must have been bitterness, rage, and retaliation to things I had written, and ignored everything else. I can't go into details because of a temple covenant, but it was very sad. You'd think that after the double European mission fiascos about numbers, we would have learned... It seems like not.

The numbers driven, get baptisms at any cost stuff dates back to the early 60's when Henry D. Moyle was in charge. It was a complete disaster, but even still, much of the current program is based on his.

Its a bit long, but if you're interested, Quinn's article below cover's this in detail.

http://www.mormonstories.org/baseballbaptisms.html

[JohnnyL]

I've mentioned some problems, and no one has been able to respond, so I'll put them up one last time:
Does anyone think 10% retention (one year later, not even two or five or 20 years later) of "converts" is pleasing?
That it's okay for someone who has been to RS for 20 minutes to get baptized?
That 90% of converts have never read a page in the Book of Mormon on their own?
That missionaries invite people to be baptized in the first discussion, and they can't even remember their name and don't care?
That it's okay for the missionaries to "dump" the newly baptized (I can't even use the word "convert" anymore because it almost never applies) on the ward and wash their hands of the matter?
That overcoming smoking--two hours before a baptism--is "good enough"?

I have story after story of missionaries much better than us on our missions, who are so pushed by numbers that they bully, push, break the rules, and don't follow rules, just so they can get a baptism/ be "successful"/ etc. There are myths that are handed down from generation to generation among the missionaries. The few missionaries that are open to instruction, always "have to check with our mission president" and it comes back, "No, we can't do that." The worst was when church leaders (GA's) responded in what must have been bitterness, rage, and retaliation to things I had written, and ignored everything else. I can't go into details because of a temple covenant, but it was very sad. You'd think that after the double European mission fiascos about numbers, we would have learned... It seems like not.

The numbers driven, get baptisms at any cost stuff dates back to the early 60's when Henry D. Moyle was in charge. It was a complete disaster, but even still, much of the current program is based on his.

Its a bit long, but if you're interested, Quinn's article below cover's this in detail.

http://www.mormonstories.org/baseballbaptisms.html

Read it before, reread some again because it's so unbelievable... really insightful.

Go ahead, all you who consider yourselves TBM's and anyone with a beef an apostate. Have a read, you might begin to understand.

[BDS]

OK, that sounds different!

I'm curious, what suggestions did the church/ mission president offer when the missionaries told them they didn't know what to do online?

I'd have to ask our sons - I will do that and report back.

Answer - "We were told to just put the iPads away and go out contacting."

Glad we had to pay $400 for that.

Did he at least get to keep the iPad? Since you paid for it I would assume it was yours.

[EmmaLee]

OK, that sounds different!

I'm curious, what suggestions did the church/ mission president offer when the missionaries told them they didn't know what to do online?

I'd have to ask our sons - I will do that and report back.

Answer - "We were told to just put the iPads away and go out contacting."

Glad we had to pay $400 for that.

Did he at least get to keep the iPad? Since you paid for it I would assume it was yours.

Yes, the missionaries brought them home.

[JustDan]

Sounds like an attempt to "raise the bar" again.

Curious that the bar was last raised through Pres Hinckley's efforts around 2000 - 2002. The emphasis then was on quality missionaries rather than quantity and that Elder's or Sister's should only serve missions if they were truly ready and able.

That bar has been lowered considerably over the years since.

Time for quality again? About time.