Deleted

[Gideon]

To be ordained a high priest a man needs to prove himself. We should seek to do that as soon as possible.

[Silver]

I recommend the following talk found: https://www.lds.org/ensign/1975/06/only ... r?lang=eng

Only an Elder
By Elder Bruce R. McConkie
Of the Council of the Twelve

From an address delivered at the Regional Representatives seminar, October 3, 1974.

Only an Elder

Brethren, what think ye of the office of an elder? Someone asks: “What office do you hold in the Church? What is your priesthood position?” An answer comes: “Oh, I’m only an elder.”

Only an elder! Only the title by which a member of the Council of the Twelve is proud to be addressed; only the title which honors the President of the Church, who is designated by revelation as the first elder (see D&C 20:2, 5); only the office to which millions of persons are ordained in the vicarious ordinances of the holy temples.

Only an elder! Only the office which enables a man to enter the new and everlasting covenant of marriage and to have his wife and children bound to him with an everlasting tie; only the office which prepares a man to be a natural patriarch to his posterity and to hold dominion in the house of Israel forever; only the office required for the receipt of the fullness of the blessings in the house of the Lord; only the office which opens the door to eternal exaltation in the highest heaven of the celestial world, where man becomes as God is.

Only an elder! Only a person ordained to preach the gospel, build up the kingdom, and perfect the Saints; only a minister whose every word is scripture; only the holder of that office which carries the privilege of receiving the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, of having the heavens opened, and of communing with the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn, and of enjoying the communion and presence of God the father and Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant. (See D&C 107:19.)

Only an elder! Every elder in the Church holds as much priesthood as the President of the Church. No apostle can or will rise higher in eternity than the faithful elder who lives the fullness of the gospel law.

What is an elder? An elder is a minister of the Lord Jesus Christ. He holds the holy Melchizedek Priesthood. He is commissioned to stand in the place and stead of his Master—who is the Chief Elder—in ministering to his fellowmen. He is the Lord’s agent. His appointment is to preach the gospel and perfect the Saints.

[PressingForward]

And Gideon, explain how one proves himself? Because pride sucks, and sometimes my pride surfaces as the oldest Elder in the Ward. All my younger brothers assure me there is no need to be a High Priest, even though they are. I found out my youngest Bro was ordained after the fact, my Parents felt it would be uncomfortable for me to attend. That hurt even worse,
60 years and I’ve never held a leadership position in the church. Lift where I stand is my motto, it just hurts that I’m made to stand outside. When the time comes for my son to become a High Priest, It will be hard to see one of my brothers do it.

[drtanner]

And Gideon, explain how one proves himself? Because pride sucks, and sometimes my pride surfaces as the oldest Elder in the Ward. All my younger brothers assure me there is no need to be a High Priest, even though they are. I found out my youngest Bro was ordained after the fact, my Parents felt it would be uncomfortable for me to attend. That hurt even worse,
60 years and I’ve never held a leadership position in the church. Lift where I stand is my motto, it just hurts that I’m made to stand outside. When the time comes for my son to become a High Priest, It will be hard to see one of my brothers do it.

I would trade all the leadership callings I’ve held or will ever hold for an embrace with the savior. Truly that is the purpose of this church and any calling we hold is just a means to that end.

[diligently seeking]

And Gideon, explain how one proves himself? Because pride sucks, and sometimes my pride surfaces as the oldest Elder in the Ward. All my younger brothers assure me there is no need to be a High Priest, even though they are. I found out my youngest Bro was ordained after the fact, my Parents felt it would be uncomfortable for me to attend. That hurt even worse,
60 years and I’ve never held a leadership position in the church. Lift where I stand is my motto, it just hurts that I’m made to stand outside. When the time comes for my son to become a High Priest, It will be hard to see one of my brothers do it.

My brother-- live to receive God's love and approbation... The honors / esteem of man and men fall very short in that setting. . PF, Seek God's honor and esteem. Let him elevate you because you "are" love... and are loved... Learn his ways. Look for and receive his grace and favor. Don't wait for man to elevate you. You very easily with joy and peace could watch a brother of yours ordain one of your sons a high priest---- knowing / feeling the wholeness of God's grace abiding in you...

[gardener4life]

I used to worry about some things like worrying about being left out; but I'm grateful I can be at home. I think it was merciful to let me be at home. Especially that my health isn't so good. Sometimes its like that or sometimes your family really needs you at home too. I've noticed a lot of priesthood holders who are good are at home in this generation for various reasons. And I think it's because this generation is just really wicked and families need someone at home. (It's not always the woman that can stand up to evil trying to get in the home.)

[Yahtzee]

My dad was made a high priest when he developed terminal cancer in his early 50s. It was like, oh crap, we should do this before he dies. So lame. He said elders quorum was more fun.

[gardener4life]

You know in terms of technical specifics, I'm not sure i still understand the difference between a high priest and an elder.

[ebenezerarise]

I was the eldest elder in my ward for years and years and years. I was finally made a high priest when I think they tired of my lessons in Elder's Quorum not featuring football talk or mindless babble.

I have been faithful and active all my life. I have never once had a leadership position. I've taught everywhere, I've done scouts, family history, activities committee, etc. But never once have I had a call to lead.

My fault?

Since when is a leadership call a barometer for be made a high priest?

Didn't happen in my case.

[Original_Intent]

I'm 54 and still an Elder. When I was active, I was the eldest active elder for a few years.

It's a bit of a trial. I don;t want a leadership position, but I have seen several guys a decade younger than me that have been made High Priests with no leadership calling. My brother in law was terminally ill and asked to be made a high priest, and was. I figure if it happens it happens, I won't ask. If the Lord sees fit for me to be a High Priest, I will be one.

I do find Elder McConkie's talk above a tad condescending. As he says on one hand "that's the title the twelve are called by, and the President is called the first Elder of the church" even he is invoking "rank" by stating that if it is good enough for the 15, it should be good enough for anyone." i.e. we are all equal, but some are more equal than others.

Be that as it may, such a small percentage of the billions on the earth today even have the priesthood. It's a great blessing. We shouldn't be annoyed if we feel overlooked.

[Original_Intent]

You know in terms of technical specifics, I'm not sure i still understand the difference between a high priest and an elder.

My understanding is that the primary difference is that Elders look after the physical needs of the ward (i.e. helping with moving, other more physical demands) and that High Priests are primarily responsible to watch over the spiritual needs of the ward.

There is certainly more involved. I believe I have read that the High Priesthood is required at some point in our eternal progress. I have read a story of a pioneer family whose son died crossing the plains and he was posthumously ordained a high priest. I figure if it's important, it will get taken care of.

[LukeAir2008]

There is no need to be set apart to the office of High Priest unless you are required to officiate under your own standing - eg Bishoprics, Stake Presidency, High Council etc. (See D&C 107:10)

If you have been ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood and set apart as an Elder you have as much Priesthood as a High Priest or an Apostle.

[LukeAir2008]

You know in terms of technical specifics, I'm not sure i still understand the difference between a high priest and an elder.

That’s because there is no difference. You’re ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood and then set apart to an office depending on your role in the ward or Stake. Elders will always be under the authority of someone else. High Priests are required to be independent and officiate under their own standing.

[Original_Intent]

You know in terms of technical specifics, I'm not sure i still understand the difference between a high priest and an elder.

That’s because there is no difference. You’re ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood and then set apart to an office depending on your role in the ward or Stake. Elders will always be under the authority of someone else. High Priests are required to be independent and officiate under their own standing.

Haha you say there is no difference and in the following sentence state a fairly big difference, in my opinion.

[Original_Intent]

My father passed away several years ago. While he was a High Priest, since I was not made a High Priest while he was alive, if I ever become one my line of authority would no longer go thru dad. Such things I suppose aren't terribly important, but for me, it is another reason not to be bothered about not being called as a High Priest.

[Robin Hood]

My father passed away several years ago. While he was a High Priest, since I was not made a High Priest while he was alive, if I ever become one my line of authority would no longer go thru dad. Such things I suppose aren't terribly important, but for me, it is another reason not to be bothered about not being called as a High Priest.

Although a commonly held view, it is my understanding this incorrect.
Your line of authority follows ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood, not to the office within the priesthood.
Elder, High Priest etc are simply offices in the priesthood, not the priesthood itself.
I was ordained a High Priest at age 26 by a member of the stake presidency. However, he did not confer the Melchizedek Priesthood upon me because I already had it. He simply ordained me to an office.
Therefore, my line of authority follows my receiving the MP from my father at age 18.
It is a line of authority, not a line of office.

[marc]

You are an elder until you are called to a leadership council. What if you're never called? Like women who are allowed endowments in their 20s despite no marriage or mission, when should a man be able to try to get to be a high priest instead of just being the old timer in the elders quorum.

Do you mean the church "office" of high priest or a high priest after the order of the Son of God by the calling of God's own voice?

JST Genesis 14:27 And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.

30 For God having sworn unto Enoch and unto his seed with an oath by himself; that every one being ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the seas, to dry up waters, to turn them out of their course;

31 To put at defiance the armies of nations, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God which was from before the foundation of the world.

32 And men having this faith, coming up unto this order of God, were translated and taken up into heaven.

Age doesn't seem to matter to Jehova. At least it didn't seem to matter with Melchizedek or with Enoch, for that matter:

Moses 6:31 And when Enoch had heard these words, he bowed himself to the earth, before the Lord, and spake before the Lord, saying: Why is it that I have found favor in thy sight, and am but a lad, and all the people hate me; for I am slow of speech; wherefore am I thy servant?

I'm not quite sure what age a "lad" was considered in Enoch's day, though to me, a lad is a juvenile...someone like a deacon or a teacher in the church today. Church articles seem to put Enoch at age 65 when he was called by God, though, and seeing as Enoch walked with God 365 days, age 65 probably is the age of a whippersnapper. Go figure.

[gclayjr]

CelestAngel,

You are an elder until you are called to a leadership council. What if you're never called? Like women who are allowed endowments in their 20s despite no marriage or mission, when should a man be able to try to get to be a high priest instead of just being the old timer in the elders quorum.

I have never had a calling that required ordination to high priest. I have been a financial clerk for decades. When I was in my mid 50's , my bishop asked me if I would like to be ordained a HP. I told him no, I felt that I had all the priesthood I needed as an elder. He persisted. He said that he thought I might be more comfortable in the HP group. I relented and it turned out that he was right. The HP quorum is great old man's club and I do enjoy it.


Regards,

George Clay

[mirkwood]

He said that he thought I might be more comfortable in the HP group. I relented and it turned out that he was right. The HP quorum is great old man's club and I do enjoy it.

90% of my EQ I am old enough to be their father. All the conversations and lessons revolve around an age group and life issues that I no longer relate to. I've been talking with the HGL, a close friend, and I think I may start attending HPG so I'm associating with my own age group. Whether or not they make me a HP I don't really care. It will happen if/when it happens. I would just like to be in a classroom with people in my own generation.

[brianj]

To be ordained a high priest a man needs to prove himself. We should seek to do that as soon as possible.

This is 100% false. I have known people who do a very good job of hiding who they rally are from church, even men who were unfaithful to their wives almost from the end of their honeymoon, who were ordained high priests.

To be ordained to the office of high priest we need to be called to the high priesthood. Nothing more, nothing less.

[brianj]

My father passed away several years ago. While he was a High Priest, since I was not made a High Priest while he was alive, if I ever become one my line of authority would no longer go thru dad. Such things I suppose aren't terribly important, but for me, it is another reason not to be bothered about not being called as a High Priest.

Although a commonly held view, it is my understanding this incorrect.
Your line of authority follows ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood, not to the office within the priesthood.
Elder, High Priest etc are simply offices in the priesthood, not the priesthood itself.
I was ordained a High Priest at age 26 by a member of the stake presidency. However, he did not confer the Melchizedek Priesthood upon me because I already had it. He simply ordained me to an office.
Therefore, my line of authority follows my receiving the MP from my father at age 18.
It is a line of authority, not a line of office.

Mr. Hood, please allow me to correct you. You are welcome to return the favor one day.

"If a priesthood bearer desires to trace his own line of authority, he should pursue his current office in the priesthood—not former offices. Bishops and patriarchs should trace their line of authority as high priests. In completing an authority line, each step should go back through the office held by the person at the time he performed the ordination."

“Church Policies and Announcements.” Ensign, Aug. 1976.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/08/chur ... s?lang=eng

[brianj]

My ward has two elders quorums and one high priests group. When I moved into this ward I was the oldest person in either quorum and competitive for oldest priesthood holder. Since then two older elders have moved in. Shortly after moving into this ward I was asked to attend the high priests group instead of elders quorum, but I was emotionally in a position where I needed to decline and I think I'm still not ready for such an invitation.

I don't think I have ever seen an 80 year old elder - with the exception of relatively new converts and those who are returning from inactivity. At some point men are invited to attend high priests, and a few years later they are usually called as high priests.

I would be honored to be offered a calling that requires ordination as a high priest, but I have never understood being called as a high priest because you're too old to be an elder. And right now I don't know anybody I would want to ask to ordain me.

Celestial, don't be in a hurry to be ordained. Let the Lord call you in His time. It's natural to think of it as a promotion or external validation, as Gideon indicated, but that doesn't seem to be how things really are in the church.

[Robin Hood]

My father passed away several years ago. While he was a High Priest, since I was not made a High Priest while he was alive, if I ever become one my line of authority would no longer go thru dad. Such things I suppose aren't terribly important, but for me, it is another reason not to be bothered about not being called as a High Priest.

Although a commonly held view, it is my understanding this incorrect.
Your line of authority follows ordination to the Melchizedek Priesthood, not to the office within the priesthood.
Elder, High Priest etc are simply offices in the priesthood, not the priesthood itself.
I was ordained a High Priest at age 26 by a member of the stake presidency. However, he did not confer the Melchizedek Priesthood upon me because I already had it. He simply ordained me to an office.
Therefore, my line of authority follows my receiving the MP from my father at age 18.
It is a line of authority, not a line of office.

Mr. Hood, please allow me to correct you. You are welcome to return the favor one day.

"If a priesthood bearer desires to trace his own line of authority, he should pursue his current office in the priesthood—not former offices. Bishops and patriarchs should trace their line of authority as high priests. In completing an authority line, each step should go back through the office held by the person at the time he performed the ordination."

“Church Policies and Announcements.” Ensign, Aug. 1976.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/08/chur ... s?lang=eng

I think that is incorrect.
It doesn't make any sense; it is illogical.
Authority and office are not the same thing.
Otherwise, why did the church leadership make such a big fuss many years ago when it was discovered people were being ordained to an office, such as Elder or High Priest, without conferal of authority ie. the Melchizedek Priesthood. The practice was stamped out because without authority the men were simply being ordained or set apart to a position in the church, not in the priesthood, and therefore held no authority.

As far as I am concerned, I will always trace my line of authority through my MP conferal, and not my office ordination.

As an interesting side note, I was at a leadership training session with President Nelson last year. Also in attendance was the presiding bishop, Bishop Causse. He pointed out that when he was called to be the presiding bishop of the church, he had to be ordained as a bishop (an office in the Aaronic Priesthood) because, irrespective of his Melchizedek priesthood, he had previously served as a branch president and had therefore never be ordained as a bishop. The fact that he was an ordained high priest was not sufficient.
Just thought that was interesting.

[brianj]

I think that is incorrect.
It doesn't make any sense; it is illogical.
Authority and office are not the same thing.
Otherwise, why did the church leadership make such a big fuss many years ago when it was discovered people were being ordained to an office, such as Elder or High Priest, without conferal of authority ie. the Melchizedek Priesthood. The practice was stamped out because without authority the men were simply being ordained or set apart to a position in the church, not in the priesthood, and therefore held no authority.

As far as I am concerned, I will always trace my line of authority through my MP conferal, and not my office ordination.

As an interesting side note, I was at a leadership training session with President Nelson last year. Also in attendance was the presiding bishop, Bishop Causse. He pointed out that when he was called to be the presiding bishop of the church, he had to be ordained as a bishop (an office in the Aaronic Priesthood) because, irrespective of his Melchizedek priesthood, he had previously served as a branch president and had therefore never be ordained as a bishop. The fact that he was an ordained high priest was not sufficient.
Just thought that was interesting.

It doesn't make sense to me, but here's a second witness from lds.org:
https://www.lds.org/church/news/members ... g=eng&_r=1

This article includes a line of authority for Spencer W Kimball that only includes his ordination to the office of Apostle.

[gardener4life]

To be ordained a high priest a man needs to prove himself. We should seek to do that as soon as possible.

This is 100% false. I have known people who do a very good job of hiding who they rally are from church, even men who were unfaithful to their wives almost from the end of their honeymoon, who were ordained high priests.

To be ordained to the office of high priest we need to be called to the high priesthood. Nothing more, nothing less.

So I think you are basically saying its the heart commitment not the checklist?