Would We Recognize a New Dispensation?

[silk]

I've been thinking about gospel dispensations, and how both the Jews and modern Christianity were blindsided when new ones came along. It made me wonder if I would recognize a new dispensation if one came. That led me to the scriptures, especially to the three accounts since the time of Christ.
These are the New Testament, Book of Mormon after Christ came to the Americas, and early church history (Doctrine and Covenants and Joseph Smith History). (I suppose technically that the Book of Mormon and New Testament accounts were contemporary, but they were organized in two distinct places.) It soon became obvious to me that there are significant parallels between the three main accounts. Using them as a guide, it would be possible to determine if a new dispensation were being ushered in.

Then what are the main parallels between dispensations coming in? And how would you recognize if a new one was happening?

I'm more than happy to share my thoughts, but I would love other input as well. In accordance with the law of witnesses, I would appreciate items shared only if they're found in at least two of the three scriptural accounts. I've found the Book of Mormon record easiest to follow since it's the most compact, but they are all insightful.

[silk]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

[silk]

Here are some other things:

One person is generally responsible for overseeing things (the Savior himself in the NT and 3Nephi, Joseph Smith in these times).

The Aaronic Priesthood is restored (3Nephi 12:1, JS-History 1:68-71), then the Melchizedek (D&C 27:12, 3Nephi 18:36-37). It's interesting to note that this happens even if valid priesthood was currently there. So even though there was valid Aaronic Priesthood in the NT, and valid Melchizedek Priesthood among the Nephites, they were both restored again. Going along with this, all people had to be re-baptized, regardless of whether it was previously done under valid priesthood authority (3Nephi 19:11-12, D&C 22, Acts 19:3-5).

So if a new dispensation were to come in, I would expect to see a restoration of Aaronic Priesthood, followed by a restoration of Melchizedek Priesthood, and then an invitation for everyone to be re-baptized and re-ordained under the new authority.

[Seek the Truth]

D&C and Joseph Smith taught this is the last dispensation.

Another dispensation following Joseph Smith is an apostate anti scriptural teaching that leads people down to hell.

[Jesef]

Apparently, all of those promises and prophecies were phrased using the "subjunctive mood" (English class) which uses words such as "may/might" (which amount to "maybe") instead of "will/shall", etc. In other words, conditional vs unconditional statements. How does that turn the scriptures on their head? Now you have to go back and discern all the times where things were apparently spoken conditionally vs unconditionally! And you thought it was just a King James English archaic way of saying things!

[silk]

D&C and Joseph Smith taught this is the last dispensation.

Another dispensation following Joseph Smith is an apostate anti scriptural teaching that leads people down to hell.

To me, also, it seems very plain. But sometimes showing is a more effective method than telling.

[Thomas]

Here is a problem you guys have:

3 Nephi 21:
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.

10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.

Some people want to think this is Joseph Smith but Joseph was not healed. He was killed. So God will send another servant to declare the words of Christ unto the Gentiles.

I think you guys are boxing yourself into a corner with last dispensation thing.

[Z2100]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

[Thomas]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

[silk]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

I hear many different things from Remnant followers. Just to clarify, which dispensation do you think we're currently in?

[Thomas]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

I hear many different things from Remnant followers. Just to clarify, which dispensation do you think we're currently in?

I think we are very close to the Millennium dispensation or perhaps, it has begun already. Its hard to say. Maybe the visit of the angel Gabriel marked a new dispensation or John the Baptist baptizing. Who knows exactly when the exact moment is that it changes. But the millennium is being ushered in.

[Z2100]

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

I hear many different things from Remnant followers. Just to clarify, which dispensation do you think we're currently in?

I think we are very close to the Millennium dispensation or perhaps, it has begun already. Its hard to say. Maybe the visit of the angel Gabriel marked a new dispensation or John the Baptist baptizing. Who knows exactly when the exact moment is that it changes. But the millennium is being ushered in.

If the Millennium dispensation were to begin before the Second Coming, then it begins in the conference at Adam Omdi Ahman when Micheal hands the keys of this Earth over to Christ.

[Z2100]

The first thing I noticed (and it's no surprise), is that each dispensation began with a personal appearance of the Savior (3Nephi 11:8-11, NT is obvious, JS-History 1:17). The thing that I hadn't realized, however, is that Heavenly Father also bore witness of the Son in each case (3Nephi 11:7, JS-H 1:17, Matthew 3:17).

So if a new dispensation were coming in, it wouldn't be enough to just see the Savior. I would also expect Heavenly Father to be there to bear witness of Jesus Christ, and this would be acknowledged/recorded by at least one person (Joseph Smith, John the Baptist, Nephite congregation).

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

I hear many different things from Remnant followers. Just to clarify, which dispensation do you think we're currently in?

are you talking to me?

[Mark]

Here's What I'm Thinking:

1. This dispensastion: The last dispensastion before the Millennium
2. The Millennium Dispensation: When Jesus rules
3. The post-Milennium Dispensation: about 500-1000 years between the end of the Millennium & the end of the world (Battle of God & Magog)

I agree. There is some prep work to be done for Christ to return or the earth will be utterly wasted at his coming

I hear many different things from Remnant followers. Just to clarify, which dispensation do you think we're currently in?

I think we are very close to the Millennium dispensation or perhaps, it has begun already. Its hard to say. Maybe the visit of the angel Gabriel marked a new dispensation or John the Baptist baptizing. Who knows exactly when the exact moment is that it changes. But the millennium is being ushered in.

This statement explains why you are so easily deceived by the likes of Denver Snuffer and those of his ilk Thomas. You throw out suppositions that are neither scripturally based nor are backed by the inspired prophesies of those who helped usher in this final dispensation of time prior to the coming of the Lord like the prophet Joseph Smith. It isn't hard to say at all. True Prophets have been very clear about the events that lead up to the coming of the Lord back to His people who are prepared to redeem Zion. As has been mentioned briefly by Z2100 these glorious events will occur and those who have been faithful in the building up of the kingdom on earth will know of those occurrences where proper priesthood keys will be passed to their rightful heirs. Snuffer just ain't one of those heirs. He is just a cheap pretender who has been deceived himself. I am sorry you were taken in by his lawyerly doublespeak. I hope for your sake you will repent and turn from his sophistry before he takes you over the cliff.

[Thomas]

Thanks for Your concern mark. I am already over the cliff with air under my feet. My only hope is that Christ will catch me.

[Arenera]

Remnants caught on film!

[mcusick]

Historically speaking, most people never recognized where God's hand really was.

It should give us all nightmares, realizing that we are most likely wrong (statistically speaking).

Rather we become rigid, assured of our magnificent status in God's eyes.

The answer, in part, is humility and becoming as a child. Children are not "right"; they are pretty dumb.

[Arenera]

In talking about how our apostles work together, President Hinckley said:

But I have never observed serious discord or personal enmity amoung my Brethren.

Isn’t it great, in this, the Dispensation of Fulness of Times, that we have a First Presidency, a Quorum of Twelve Apostles, Quorums of Seventies, other general authorities, Stake Presidencies, Bishoprics, and other leaders!?

All under the direction of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

[Z2100]

In talking about how our apostles work together, President Hinckley said:

But I have never observed serious discord or personal enmity amoung my Brethren.

Isn’t it great, in this, the Dispensation of Fulness of Times, that we have a First Presidency, a Quorum of Twelve Apostles, Quorums of Seventies, other general authorities, Stake Presidencies, Bishoprics, and other leaders!?

All under the direction of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

We live in the best time in world history!

[Alaris]

The question in the thread title is a great hypothetical for a good self inventory. If I lived in the time of Christ would I have recognized a carpenter's son as the living Son of God?

If I lived in the time of Joseph Smith would I have been able to accept a new prophet in his early twenties who was poor and uneducated...someone who looked into stones in a hat?

Now transpose these questions into modern times to help give yourself a proper hypothetical. A carpenter's son in 2017 claims to be the Son of God. A poor, uneducated farmer in 2017 claims he can see spiritually into stones he puts in his hat.

D&C 27:12 And also with Peter, and James, and John, whom I have sent unto you, by whom I have ordained you and confirmed you to be apostles, and especial witnesses of my name, and bear the keys of your ministry and of the same things which I revealed unto them;
13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fullness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;

D&C 7:7 And I will make thee to minister for him and for thy brother James; and unto you three I will give this power and the keys of this ministry until I come.

These keys were given to Joseph Smith--however John is still here, and Peter and James are also actively working as it is their jobs to oversee until Christ comes. In the temple,Peter, James, and John cast out Satan before we move into the Terrestrial room for further light and knowledge. The binding of Satan and his devils before the millennium is not a coincidence. This is ultimately the stewardship of Peter, James, and John who oversee this last dispensation to then bind Satan and his devils.

I'm not saying Peter, James, and John will wrest the keys from our church, but John has been actively working:

D&C 77:14 Q. What are we to understand by the little book which was eaten by John, as mentioned in the 10th chapter of Revelation?
A. We are to understand that it was a mission, and an ordinance, for him to gather the tribes of Israel; behold, this is Elias, who, as it is written, must come and restore all things.

In a conference of the Church on 3 June 1831, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught concerning John’s ministry: “John the Revelator was then among the Ten Tribes of Israel who had been led away by Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, to prepare them for their return from their long dispersion” (History of the Church, 1:176).

So John has been exercising those keys while the keys were committed to Joseph Smith:

“Why is it that you are here to-day? and what brought you here? Because the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four quarters of the earth have been committed to Joseph Smith, and he has conferred those keys upon others that the gathering of Israel may be accomplished, and in due time the same thing will be performed to the tribes in the land of the north. It is on this account, and through the unlocking of this principle, and through those means, that you are brought together as you are to-day” (John Taylor, in Journal of Discourses, 25:179).

You may be wondering, "Where is Alaris going with this?" I am also wondering a bit, or perhaps wandering. Here is the next question:

Would you recognize John?

Would you recognize parallel prophets and parallel works? Because there are parallel prophets and parallel works.

D&C 133:26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

There seems to be this lazy interpretation of last dispensation as though we will never be similarly tried by those people who were confronted with a new dispensation. While you may be technically correct, there will be a new Kingdom. And though I believe it will be born from the church (Revelation 12) what if that birth occurs while we are cut off from the Prophet and the Apostles due to some global catastrophe and could not rely upon their leadership to discern for us who is who? What if you had to rely on yourself to discern the real prophets from the false ones? Could you? Now reread the first two questions in this post.

[silk]

I think at this point that some background is in order.

This whole exercise of finding parallels in dispensations was started by a quote I read by a Brian Zang, who seems to be from the Remnant. (The problem with this whole movement is that everyone seems to believe different things, but it sounded authoritative.) In response to the question, "Is this a new dispensation?" He responded:

Yes. It is connected to, and built upon, the dispensation begun by Joseph Smith, but it is nonetheless new. We honor those in the LDS Church who have preserved what they have of Joseph Smith’s teachings, and Christ’s words through him. John the Baptist’s priesthood reckoned from the Jews he wrested the keys from. His priesthood continued, as did Christ’s and the apostles, despite the demise of the Jewish council, synagogues, and temple.

Denver Snuffer has ushered in the dispensation of the last times for the Gentiles, as John the Baptist ushered in the dispensation of the last times for the Jews (D&C 27:13).

And here is the scripture he quotes, which actually has nothing to do with Denver Snuffer or John the Baptist:

13 Unto whom I have committed the keys of my kingdom, and a dispensation of the gospel for the last times; and for the fulness of times, in the which I will gather together in one all things, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;

In reading his words, I started to think about dispensations. There are scriptures in the D&C and quotes from the prophets, but they have discounted those or interpreted them differently. So then I started to ponder whether someone could tell whether a new dispensation was coming in based on scriptural accounts of other dispensations. In studying them, I found many things that were common between at least two of the three most recent ones described (New Testament, Book of Mormon, Church History). Most of those I haven't shared yet, but I'll tell them briefly in case anyone is interested:

Personal appearance of the Savior
Heavenly Father bears witness of the Son
One person is generally in charge
Restoration of Aaronic Priesthood, then Melchizedek (whether or not it was valid previously)
Re-baptism (regardless of whether it was valid previously)
Call of the Twelve disciples/apostles
Institution of the sacrament/sacramental prayers
Re-teaching on how to baptize
Teachings, especially the doctrine of Christ, gospel of Christ, and Sermon on the Mount
Missionary charge, and the beginning of missionary work
Formation of a church, named after Christ
Specific church organization (AofF 6)
Judges in the church to prevent people from partaking of the sacrament unworthily
Judges in the church to ex-communicate members if necessary
Keys of the kingdom given
Priesthood offices
Temple work

I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones I found initially.

This is getting long, so I'll leave this as one post.