Baptism of Fire or Conversion

[Arenera]

The Price of Priesthood Power

"I urgently plead with each one of us to live up to our privileges as bearers of the priesthood. In a coming day, only those men who have taken their priesthood seriously, by diligently seeking to be taught by the Lord Himself, will be able to bless, guide, protect, strengthen, and heal others."

How do we get to being taught by the Lord Himself? One way is with the help of the Book of Mormon!

In April 2017, President Monson asked us to read again the Book of Mormon:
The Power of the Book of Mormon

In this recent October 2017 Conference, several speakers spoke about the Book of Mormon.

The Book of Mormon was written so we could be "taught by the Lord Himself"!

What is one thing we need to do?

Receive the Baptism of Fire!

Nephi said in 2Nephi 31:
11 And the Father said: Repent ye, repent ye, and be baptized in the name of my Beloved Son.

13 ...yea, by following your Lord and your Savior down into the water, according to his word, behold, then shall ye receive the Holy Ghost; yea, then cometh the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost; and then can ye speak with the tongue of angels, and shout praises unto the Holy One of Israel.

In our day, there are 3 components of baptism:
1. Being immersed in water
2. Being confirmed and instructed to receive the Holy Ghost
3. Being Baptized by Fire (actually receive the Holy Ghost and all that means)

Let's learn more about the Baptism of Fire.

[Arenera]

An example of receiving the Baptism of Fire by Lorenzo Snow

In June, 1836, previous to accepting these ordinances [of the gospel], I became convinced in my investigations of the principles taught by the Latter-day Saints, which I proved by comparison to be the same as those mentioned in the New Testament, taught by Christ and his Apostles, that obedience to them would impart miraculous powers, manifestations and revelations. With sanguine expectation of this result, I received baptism and the ordinance of laying on of hands by one who professed to have divine authority; and having thus yielded obedience I was in constant expectation of the fulfillment of the promise of the reception of the Holy Ghost.

This manifestation did not immediately follow my baptism as I expected. But, although the time was deferred, when I did receive it its realization was more perfect, tangible and miraculous than even my strongest hopes had led me to anticipate. One day while engaged in my studies, some two or three weeks after I was baptized, I began to reflect upon the fact that I had not obtained a knowledge of the truth of the work—that I had not realized the fulfillment of the promise: "He that doeth my will shall know of the doctrine"; and I began to feel very uneasy. I laid aside my books, left the house and wandered around through the fields under the oppressive influence of a gloomy, disconsolate spirit, while an indescribable cloud of darkness seemed to envelop me. I had been accustomed, at the close of the day, to retire for secret prayer to a grove, a short distance from my lodgings, but at this time I felt no inclination to do so.

The spirit of prayer had departed, and the heavens seemed like brass over my head. At length, realizing that the usual time had come for secret prayer, I concluded I would not forego my evening service, and, as a matter of formality, knelt as I was in the habit of doing, and in my accustomed retired place, but not feeling as I was wont to feel. I had no sooner opened my lips in an effort to pray than I heard a sound, just above my head, like the rustling of silken robes, and immediately the Spirit of God descended upon me completely enveloping my whole person, filling me from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet, and O the joy and happiness I felt! No language can describe the instantaneous transition from a dense cloud of mental and spiritual darkness into a refulgence of light and knowledge, as it was at that time imparted to my understanding. I then received a perfect knowledge that God lives, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and of the restoration of the Holy Priesthood, and of the fulness of the gospel.

It was a complete baptism—a tangible immersion in the heavenly principle or element, the Holy Ghost; and even more real and physical in its effects upon every part of my system than the immersion of water, dispelling forever, so long as reason and memory last, all possibility of doubt or fear in relation to the fact handed down to us historically, that the "Babe of Bethlehem" is truly the Son of God; also the fact that he is now being revealed to the children of men, and communicating knowledge, the same as in the apostolic times. I was perfectly satisfied, as well I might be, for my expectations were more than realized, I think I may safely say, in an infinite degree. I cannot tell how long I remained in the full flow of this blissful enjoyment and divine enlightenment, but it was several minutes before the celestial element, which filled and surrounded me, began gradually to withdraw. On arising from my kneeling posture, with my heart swelling with gratitude to God beyond the power of expression, I felt—I knew that he had conferred on me what only an omnipotent Being can confer—that which is of greater value than all the wealth and honors worlds can bestow. That night, as I retired to rest, the same wonderful manifestations were repeated, and continued to be for several successive nights. The sweet remembrance of those glorious experiences, from that time to the present, bring them fresh before me, imparting an inspiring influence which pervades my whole being, and I trust will to the close of my earthly existence.

Juvenile Instructor, XXII, pp 22-23

[Finrock]

Below are a couple of links to some good discussions on this topic from the past. The Baptism by Fire is the single most important ordinance that we can receive because from it all other blessings follow or are attainable. It is so very important to understand what this ordinance is and how one obtains it and maintains it. We are shooting beyond the mark if we are focusing on other aspects of the gospel before we have an assurance that we have been baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40401

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43369&hilit=baptism+by+fire

-Finrock

[Arenera]

Heber C. Kimball's Experience

The reception of the Holy Ghost was to Heber C. Kimball a literal immersion in the heavenly element.

Of it he said: Under the ordinances of baptism and the laying on of hands, I received the Holy Ghost, as the disciples did in ancient days, which was like a consuming fire. I felt as though I sat at the feet of Jesus, and was clothed in my right mind, although the people called me crazy. I continued in this way for many months, and it seemed as though my body would consume away; at the same time the scriptures were unfolded to my mind in such a wonderful manner that it appeared to me, at times, as if I had formerly been familiar with them.

Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball
Salt Lake City, Utah 1945

[Arenera]

Below are a couple of links to some good discussions on this topic from the past. The Baptism by Fire is the single most important ordinance that we can receive because from it all other blessings follow or are attainable. It is so very important to understand what this ordinance is and how one obtains it and maintains it. We are shooting beyond the mark if we are focusing on other aspects of the gospel before we have an assurance that we have been baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=40401

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43369&hilit=baptism+by+fire

-Finrock

It is most important Finrock. I hope at least 1 person feels something and acts on it so that they can be ready for the future.

[Finrock]

Here is a short version of how I received my baptism of fire and Holy Ghost:

I lived in hell. A dark, lonely, depressed, anxious, and chaotic filled hell. This hell was created by my mothers and fathers and through my own actions. I was raped and abused by my mothers and fathers. I committed many grave sins over the course of my life. Finally, God broke me down and brought me low, so low that I knew I was nothing and that all was nothing without God.

I remember one night as I was in this profound state of depression and desperation. I was tired, worn, and ready to die. I wanted peace, relief! I cried out to Heavenly Father with all my heart. I was desperate. I wanted to be released from this hell that I was living in. I was praying out loud and crying and calling out to God. I was begging Heavenly Father to have mercy on me. Remembering that Alma the Younger called out to Jesus in his anguish, I called out to Jesus, and I said, "Jesus, have mercy on me!" All of a sudden, as I was crying out, this power came over me. It filled me up and pretty much slammed in to me. It was this overwhelming feeling of goodness/light/spirit that just enveloped me completely and even though I was kneeling at the time, when the power came over me it caused my whole body to lose strength and I fell to the ground. I could not speak, all I could do was cry and thank Heavenly Father. I don't know exactly how long this intense experience lasted, maybe two or three minutes, but finally the intense feeling left me and I was able to get up off the ground. When I was able to get up I had snot and slobber all over my face from crying. I knelt and prayed and thanked God again for what I had experience. Since that time, I have never been the same again. I was born again and became a new person. After this experience I knew that it was God who did that to me. I experienced and knew God's power like I had never known it before. My mind was enlightened and I was able to see and understand spiritual things like never before. I was filled with joy. The heavy burdens that brought me low were lifted. My guilt, shame, and anxiety was washed away completely. I knew that it wasn't any man who saved me. I know that no man, no woman, no thing can save me. It is God and God only, Jesus Christ, who has power to save.

The baptism by fire is real. It is a real event of power and light. We can be made clean and have our sins completely and utterly remitted. We can be made in to new creatures with a new heart.

-Finrock

[Arenera]

The Big Kahuna of Baptism of Fire in the Book of Mormon

Helaman was the son of Helaman (Strippling Warriors) who was the son of Alma the Younger. Helaman had 2 sons he named Nephi and Lehi. Nephi and Lehi were preaching the gospel, to the Nephites and then Lamanites. They were imprisoned by the Lamanites.

From Helaman 5:

20 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did proceed from thence to go to the land of Nephi.

21 And it came to pass that they were taken by an army of the Lamanites and cast into prison; yea, even in that same prison in which Ammon and his brethren were cast by the servants of Limhi.

22 And after they had been cast into prison many days without food, behold, they went forth into the prison to take them that they might slay them.

23 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi were encircled about as if by fire, even insomuch that they durst not lay their hands upon them for fear lest they should be burned. Nevertheless, Nephi and Lehi were not burned; and they were as standing in the midst of fire and were not burned.

24 And when they saw that they were encircled about with a pillar of fire, and that it burned them not, their hearts did take courage. Nephi and Lehi were receiving the Baptism of Fire, they did not know it either.

25 For they saw that the Lamanites durst not lay their hands upon them; neither durst they come near unto them, but stood as if they were struck dumb with amazement.

26 And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did stand forth and began to speak unto them, saying: Fear not, for behold, it is God that has shown unto you this marvelous thing, in the which is shown unto you that ye cannot lay your hands on us to slay us.

27 And behold, when they had said these words, the earth shook exceedingly, and the walls of the prison did shake as if they were about to tumble to the earth; but behold, they did not fall. And behold, they that were in the prison were Lamanites and Nephites who were dissenters.

28 And it came to pass that they were overshadowed with a cloud of darkness, and an awful solemn fear came upon them.

29 And it came to pass that there came a voice as if it were above the cloud of darkness, saying: Repent ye, repent ye, and seek no more to destroy my servants whom I have sent unto you to declare good tidings.

30 And it came to pass when they heard this voice, and beheld that it was not a voice of thunder, neither was it a voice of a great tumultuous noise, but behold, it was a still voice of perfect mildness, as if it had been a whisper, and it did pierce even to the very soul—

31 And notwithstanding the mildness of the voice, behold the earth shook exceedingly, and the walls of the prison trembled again, as if it were about to tumble to the earth; and behold the cloud of darkness, which had overshadowed them, did not disperse—

32 And behold the voice came again, saying: Repent ye, repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand; and seek no more to destroy my servants. And it came to pass that the earth shook again, and the walls trembled.The kingdom of heaven is at hand when we are Baptized by Fire.

33 And also again the third time the voice came, and did speak unto them marvelous words which cannot be uttered by man; and the walls did tremble again, and the earth shook as if it were about to divide asunder.

34 And it came to pass that the Lamanites could not flee because of the cloud of darkness which did overshadow them; yea, and also they were immovable because of the fear which did come upon them.

35 Now there was one among them who was a Nephite by birth, who had once belonged to the church of God but had dissented from them.

36 And it came to pass that he turned him about, and behold, he saw through the cloud of darkness the faces of Nephi and Lehi; and behold, they did shine exceedingly, even as the faces of angels. And he beheld that they did lift their eyes to heaven; and they were in the attitude as if talking or lifting their voices to some being whom they beheld.

37 And it came to pass that this man did cry unto the multitude, that they might turn and look. And behold, there was power given unto them that they did turn and look; and they did behold the faces of Nephi and Lehi.

38 And they said unto the man: Behold, what do all these things mean, and who is it with whom these men do converse?

39 Now the man’s name was Aminadab. And Aminadab said unto them: They do converse with the angels of God.

40 And it came to pass that the Lamanites said unto him: What shall we do, that this cloud of darkness may be removed from overshadowing us?

41 And Aminadab said unto them: You must repent, and cry unto the voice, even until ye shall have faith in Christ, who was taught unto you by Alma, and Amulek, and Zeezrom; and when ye shall do this, the cloud of darkness shall be removed from overshadowing you.

42 And it came to pass that they all did begin to cry unto the voice of him who had shaken the earth; yea, they did cry even until the cloud of darkness was dispersed.

43 And it came to pass that when they cast their eyes about, and saw that the cloud of darkness was dispersed from overshadowing them, behold, they saw that they were encircled about, yea every soul, by a pillar of fire.

44 And Nephi and Lehi were in the midst of them; yea, they were encircled about; yea, they were as if in the midst of a flaming fire, yet it did harm them not, neither did it take hold upon the walls of the prison; and they were filled with that joy which is unspeakable and full of glory.

45 And behold, the Holy Spirit of God did come down from heaven, and did enter into their hearts, and they were filled as if with fire, and they could speak forth marvelous words.

46 And it came to pass that there came a voice unto them, yea, a pleasant voice, as if it were a whisper, saying:

47 Peace, peace be unto you, because of your faith in my Well Beloved, who was from the foundation of the world.

48 And now, when they heard this they cast up their eyes as if to behold from whence the voice came; and behold, they saw the heavens open; and angels came down out of heaven and ministered unto them.

49 And there were about three hundred souls who saw and heard these things; and they were bidden to go forth and marvel not, neither should they doubt.

50 And it came to pass that they did go forth, and did minister unto the people, declaring throughout all the regions round about all the things which they had heard and seen, insomuch that the more part of the Lamanites were convinced of them, because of the greatness of the evidences which they had received.

51 And as many as were convinced did lay down their weapons of war, and also their hatred and the tradition of their fathers.

52 And it came to pass that they did yield up unto the Nephites the lands of their possession.

This is the Baptism of Fire. This is what prepares us to converse with the Lord and be taught by Him.

[TrueIntent]

YEP...I agree. You can be baptized by water in a physical sense.....AND your baptism is still NOT acceptable to Christ. One must new baptized by fire...See, Jesus Christ rejected the baptism of the Pharisees in scripture. One must be baptized by fire to receive Christ. The Pharisees, because they were NOT baptized by fire, rejected John, and then rejected Christ (or at least that's what Jesus taught anyway:-))

[Arenera]

From the first verse to the last page in the Book of Mormon

1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.

Why was Nephi highly favored of the Lord? Because he took the path that included the Baptism of Fire. Later he was instructed by angels, saw Christ's life, and knew Christ. (See 1N2:16+, 1N11+)

30 And again I would exhort you that ye would come unto Christ, and lay hold upon every good gift, and touch not the evil gift, nor the unclean thing.

32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.

How do we Come Unto Christ? It starts with the Baptism of Fire. Sanctification. Angels. Instructions from Heaven. Receiving Christ. Being instructed by Christ.

2 Wherefore, the things which I have written sufficeth me, save it be a few words which I must speak concerning the doctrine of Christ; wherefore, I shall speak unto you plainly, according to the plainness of my prophesying.

For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.

ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

[Zathura]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41905&p=698984&hilit=Fire#p698984

...so I'll leave you with a url of a search of my testimony of the Doctrine of Christ.

Peace and Love!

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/search.p ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Baptism of Fire results

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/search.p ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-Born Again Results

This search takes you to every post that I have discussed one of the most important parts of my testimony, and that is the baptism of fire and Holy Ghost.
Those posts are my testimony.

I sincerely hope that this thread, and the many others like it can help others learn the doctrine of Christ and become broken hearted and contrite, that they may be born again, being sanctified by the reception of the Holy Ghost. That is only the beginning, you've only entered in by the way.
I testify that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he is my personal Savior.

Love you all.

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 14&t=40401" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All roles and duties serve to fulfill this primary purpose of all true prophets of Jesus Christ, that is to feed His sheep. Temple work is symbolizing your life, which is the real ordinance and which requires true repentence and true broken heart and true contrite spirit, not symbolically. It is about being saved by being baptized with fire and the Holy Ghost. The purpose of the temple is to teach us how we can converse with the Lord through the veil so that we can enter back in to His presence.
Everything a Prophet does will be for the purpose of bringing souls to Christ by teaching them how they can receive their baptism by fire and Holy Spirit.


-Finrock

All those who have been baptized by fire know where their salvation came from and know who it is that is resonsible for it. It is no man. This may shatter someone's faith but it will be good to be shattered, but there are no special chosen ones who will save us or who we can look to in the coming times and tribulations.

God is Supreme, forever and ever and His Son Jesus Christ!

-Finrock

Finrock has declared the Doctrine of Christ, this doctrine was declared by Nephi. We are not to teach anything MORE or LESS than this. How can we say the Book of Mormon has the fullness of the Gospel if the BoM does not have anything about temple ordinances?
Because Temple ordinances only symbolize the real thing, the fullness of the Gospel. The real thing is in the BoM. The temple teaches that we can be washed and receive an anointing, the Holy Ghost, which will lead us, and through God's Spirit we gain priesthood power. As we continue on this path we can pierce the veil and receive a fullness, and more priesthood power.
This is the Doctrine of Christ, this is what Nephi spoke of. Why do we teach more than this? Why do we teach less than this? Why do we make the same mistake that the Jews made, and convince ourselves that physical ordinances save us?

The prophets of old sought to help man repent and be Born Again, that he may receive the Holy Ghost and progress until the point that he too may pierce the veil and be redeemed. This is the purpose of prophets, this was the desire of their hearts. John's desire wasn't to stand at the head of a hierarchy and hold keys, he wanted to preach the Gospel and help others come unto Christ being born of God. Alma gave the reason for working unceasingly. He worked in order than all may be born of God, and receive the Holy Ghost.

Your Endowment is not the signs and tokens, or the "new name" they give you. The endowment is a spiritual experience, a powerful one that can come in the Temple, or out of it afterwards. It is an endowment of power not unlike the baptism of fire one receives from God, and comes with an unforgettable experience.

This is the doctrine of Christ. It's so simple.A man must seek God, study, pray and reach the depths of humility, becoming truly broken and contrite. God will then visit that man with fire and the Holy Ghost, and quicken the inner man. That man will be born again, receiving an anointing( The Holy Ghost) and some gifts of the Spirit. Only then has this man entered in by the way, and is on the strait and narrow path. At the end of this path is the veil that man may pierce, and enter into the presence of the Lord.

I may be mistaken on many things, I may have an opinion on many things, but these things that I have spoken in this post I know. They have been confirmed to me through experiences that cannot be explained or understood except by those who have had the same experiences. Not warm fuzzy feelings, not just a hot feeling in my chest when I prayed about something or read something, but by the power of the Holy Ghost.

This is the gospel we need to proclaim, nothing more, nothing less. This is the doctrine that will bring others to Christ. Helping another soul be born of God is what brings enormous joy to your own soul. You cannot truly be converted to Christ without receiving the baptism of Fire and being born again.

Take from this post what you will, this is one of the very few things I have a perfect knowledge of, and it's my testimony that I will declare until the day I die.

If you think you're converted to Christ, stop and think. If you think you've been born of God, stop and think. Peter was not converted and born again throughout the whole 4 Gospels. after he had seen many miracles and the resurrection of Christ, he still wasn't converted, still hadn't been born again. It wasn't until the day of Pentecosts that he received an endowment from on high and was truly converted to Jesus. It wasn't until then that he could boldly testify of Christ without fear of what man would do to him. If he wasn't converted after all that, how about you? Am i Converted? Have I been spiritually begotten? Your salvation depends on this, it'd serve you well to ask yourself these questions.

p.s. I post this mostly for any lurkers who come here looking for help on their path to God, who have come across questions in their scripture study.

[Zathura]

viewtopic.php?p=721581#p721581

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/putt ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -This is the link to the talk
My friends, I know this is a large post, but I kindly ask you to please take a moment and read it, even if you have read what I've had to say many times. Please understand, I share this not because I think highly of myself. I share it because my life changed when I did what talks like this on LDS.org encouraged me to do, and the experience that I had changed my heart and I have a burning desire for others to taste of this fruit, God's Charity.

TO MAKE IT EASIER TO DISTINGUISH WHICH WORDS ARE STRAIGHT FROM THE TALK, I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED EVERYTHING IN RED THAT IS A DIRECT QUOTE

I have often spoke of this topic and I have returned to speak of it again because I found a wonderful talk while browsing LDS.ORG.
This talk explains to us how we can put off the natural man and be born of God. At the beginning of this talk, he immediately makes sure that he wants us to understand 3 things.

"spiritual rebirth as a separate experience that does not necessarily occur at the time of water baptism or the laying on the hands, the changes that occur when this rebirth takes place, and the necessary conditions that bring about this transformation"

Then he goes on to speak of 2 baptisms, which everyone has heard of since the beginning of time. The baptism of water and the baptism of Spirit.
Brother Hellem explains that the name of the 2nd baptism, the baptism of Spirit, is called " the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.” He then goes on to explain that being Spiritually born of God through this 2nd baptism, the baptism of spirit, is NOT THE SAME as receiving the ordinance of confirmation into the church by the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost

"The baptism of the Spirit is called the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.” 1 It is extremely important to distinguish between being spiritually born of God through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost from receiving the ordinance of confirmation into the Church by the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. President Ezra Taft Benson stated it this way: “In addition to the physical ordinance of baptism and the laying on of hands, one must be spiritually born again to gain exaltation and eternal life.”

What did that say? President Benson, the Prophet of God said that: " IN ADDITION TO BAPTISM AND THE LAYING ON OF HANDS(many assume you would have already received the baptism of the spirit at this point), you must also be SPIRITUALLY BORN AGAIN TO GAIN EXALTATION.

He then goes on to use some scriptures as examples of people who were born again, like the people of King Benjamin and Alma. He then says something that I have been attacked for saying many times.
"Let us recognize that to be spiritually born of God and receive the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost is, as the scriptures attest, a glorious and wonderful event that prepares us to pursue eternal life."

He then talks about what people must do to reach this point. He then says the following:

"For some, hearing the word of God, coming to a knowledge of their sins, and sincerely desiring to forsake them initiates a rebirth process that progresses rather quickly. For others, the process may extend over a period of many years. In either case, it involves a lifetime of learning and growing, line upon line and precept upon precept."....the preparatory elements remain the same: humility, recognition of personal sin, a knowledge of Christ’s atonement, and repentance with real intent to keep the Lord’s commandments.


PLEASE, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS LAST PART, IT IS THE KEY TO FINALLY OBTAINING THIS BLESSING THAT YOU SEEK, WHETHER YOU HAVE NEVER HAD IT, OR WHETHER YOU HAVE HAD IT BEFORE.


"The key to spiritual rebirth consists in presenting to our Savior at some point our sacrifice of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. As we do so, we become increasingly aware, as never before, of the tremendous debt that he paid for us. We become increasingly aware of our Savior’s suffering of body and spirit and how we have contributed to that suffering through our sins. As the knowledge and understanding of this reality bursts upon us—the reality of Gethsemane and Golgotha—it begins to kindle a burning fire within our hearts. As that fire grows, it begins to burn away the layers of rationalizations we have placed protectively around our hearts. We see our remaining sins clearly, and, truly humbling ourselves, we feel our hearts changing as we remove the protective layers of rationalizations from around our hearts."

I can find no better words than this, than to describe the process of what happens immediately preceding the baptism of fire that I have experienced.


At the end of all of this, many people say to me, "Stahura, if everyone is supposed to have these large miraculous experiences, that excludes a lot o people!"

To that, the talk says the following:

Some of us may fear to face such questions, but there is no need for fear or confusion. As we honestly seek these answers with full purpose of heart, fighting the valiant fight of faith, we will discover that “the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”


Just to invite some people who have discussed this topic with me:

So to respond to your other earlier post, I just want to say that I don't know for sure how to think about this whole process yet, but my inclination is to say that being born again is a process, and that being baptized by fire for the first time, or any other time, culminates in being sealed, which I would equate with having your calling and election made sure. Remember that vision of David O. McKay, where the phrase was, "those who have truly been born again" (because they have overcome the world). This points to the fact that we can be born again in degrees, and while the starting point might be the "culminating" point where one starts the process, the real culmination is when you are completely sanctified and sealed and had your calling and election made sure. I have yet to receive that, and I do not feel fully sanctified yet. I'm still working on many of those weaknesses that I mentioned. But the reasurrances from the Lord have been great, and I don't feel less of a person because I haven't had this sealing by the Holy Spirit of Promise take place yet. I trust as I take the Holy Spirit as my guide and let him tutor me, that will happen someday when the time is right.

I have so many flaws and weaknesses and it is this very fact that prevents me from feeling that I am superior to any person. I know all that I could do to receive a remission of my sins was to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I was brought to know of my own nothingness and the nothingness of all things if it were not for God. Without Him we are just objects in space.

It is my persistent and weakened state that continuously compells me to call out to God and beg for mercy and power and strength. I know that without Him I can not do anything. I know that without Him I will fail. I know from experience that through being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost we can have a mighty change of heart and become new creatures (born again) with new eyes to see and new ears to hear and new hearts to listen. My desires have been changed so that to become Good overwhelms my flesh and my desires for vengence, anger, hate, lust, contention, opposition, varience, etc.

Two Sundays ago I was teaching in Elder's Quorum. The lesson was on the music of the gospel. I taught the discussion using the ideas in the conference talk and also some quotes from Elder Eyring. Other than that the discussion was Spirit lead. It was a very good discussion. We identified the music of the gospel as charity. That is why we act. We identified obtaining charity as something we gain by being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost and beginning to do all things that the Spirit tells us to do. As we act on promptings the frequency of the promptings will increase until the frequency is near to constant companionship of the Holy Spirit. I testified that Jeuss Christ has power to overcome great adversity, trials, abuses, and impediments. I testified that it is through the atonement of Jesus Christ that we are given power by repenting and having a broken heart and a contrinte spirit. I testified that the baptism by fire and the Holy Spirit is real and we must seek after it. At the end of the discussion our High Councilman came to me and told me that he loves hearing me teach. I told him that if I said anything good it was the Spirit. He said, well, you have the Spirit. I have known this man for many years.

-Finrock

Of course the baptism of fire is a legit, physical experience - I have experienced it three distinct times in my life - they were unmistakable and unlike anything else and never to be forgotten (and yes, it burned like 'fire', no pain, only joy and love). The Lord is well aware of what we need. I would trust him over what you read on this or any other internet forum or 'message board' (can't believe that's even a 'thing' - wondering where we should get truth - the internet or Christ... #-o ). If CHRIST wants to give you your BF&HG, etc. he will. The Savior gives us what we need, when we need it, how we need it. If you don't believe and trust that, then this whole problem/discussion is moot.

Here's the way I think about it.
It is a process, but the process starts with an event. THE event. The actual reception and enjoyment of the gift that you were promised.

We haven't even entered in by the way until we have this baptism of fire, which is NOT a process, but an event.
Once you have received this baptism of fire(Elder's Christofferson and Romney say that baptism of fire = sanctification) THEN you are on this path, and the process has truly begun. You have had that mighty change, and from that point on you seek to become more sanctified. After that point, you can receive a larger portion of the Spirit of God and grow from grace to grace, eventually you can receive a fullness. In this way, it's like a burning ember. If you are diligent, obedient, and do what the Spirit directs, you can have many baptisms of fire and many spiritual experiences that "Accelerate" This process.

Does this sound close to what you believe?

It sounds like you believe it is an event. I think you also maintain most people have not had this dramatic event. So what do you do with them?

[Arenera]

Cares of the world can interfere with receiving the Baptism of Fire

Some people are more concerned or get distracted with the "world". Aren't we exposed to more distractions than ever???

Mark 4
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

D&C 39
9 Nevertheless, thou hast seen great sorrow, for thou hast rejected me many times because of pride and the cares of the world.

D&C 40
2 And he received the word with gladness, but straightway Satan tempted him; and the fear of persecution and the cares of the world caused him to reject the word.

[Arenera]

Unbelief can cause you to not receive the Baptism of Fire

Mormon 9
20 And the reason why he ceaseth to do miracles among the children of men is because that they dwindle in unbelief, and depart from the right way, and know not the God in whom they should trust.

This can be an issue with Mormons too. Nephi shows us the difference in the approach he took versus the approach his brothers took:

1 Nephi 15
8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?

9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.

We too can believe that God will not give us a spiritual experience. That is how Laman and Lemuel thought. Nephi believed and received great spiritual experiences.

Do you believe, really believe?

[TrueIntent]

viewtopic.php?p=721581#p721581

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1992/06/putt ... d?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -This is the link to the talk
My friends, I know this is a large post, but I kindly ask you to please take a moment and read it, even if you have read what I've had to say many times. Please understand, I share this not because I think highly of myself. I share it because my life changed when I did what talks like this on LDS.org encouraged me to do, and the experience that I had changed my heart and I have a burning desire for others to taste of this fruit, God's Charity.

TO MAKE IT EASIER TO DISTINGUISH WHICH WORDS ARE STRAIGHT FROM THE TALK, I HAVE HIGHLIGHTED EVERYTHING IN RED THAT IS A DIRECT QUOTE

I have often spoke of this topic and I have returned to speak of it again because I found a wonderful talk while browsing LDS.ORG.
This talk explains to us how we can put off the natural man and be born of God. At the beginning of this talk, he immediately makes sure that he wants us to understand 3 things.

"spiritual rebirth as a separate experience that does not necessarily occur at the time of water baptism or the laying on the hands, the changes that occur when this rebirth takes place, and the necessary conditions that bring about this transformation"

Then he goes on to speak of 2 baptisms, which everyone has heard of since the beginning of time. The baptism of water and the baptism of Spirit.
Brother Hellem explains that the name of the 2nd baptism, the baptism of Spirit, is called " the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.” He then goes on to explain that being Spiritually born of God through this 2nd baptism, the baptism of spirit, is NOT THE SAME as receiving the ordinance of confirmation into the church by the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost

"The baptism of the Spirit is called the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost.” 1 It is extremely important to distinguish between being spiritually born of God through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost from receiving the ordinance of confirmation into the Church by the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. President Ezra Taft Benson stated it this way: “In addition to the physical ordinance of baptism and the laying on of hands, one must be spiritually born again to gain exaltation and eternal life.”

What did that say? President Benson, the Prophet of God said that: " IN ADDITION TO BAPTISM AND THE LAYING ON OF HANDS(many assume you would have already received the baptism of the spirit at this point), you must also be SPIRITUALLY BORN AGAIN TO GAIN EXALTATION.

He then goes on to use some scriptures as examples of people who were born again, like the people of King Benjamin and Alma. He then says something that I have been attacked for saying many times.
"Let us recognize that to be spiritually born of God and receive the baptism of fire and of the Holy Ghost is, as the scriptures attest, a glorious and wonderful event that prepares us to pursue eternal life."

He then talks about what people must do to reach this point. He then says the following:

"For some, hearing the word of God, coming to a knowledge of their sins, and sincerely desiring to forsake them initiates a rebirth process that progresses rather quickly. For others, the process may extend over a period of many years. In either case, it involves a lifetime of learning and growing, line upon line and precept upon precept."....the preparatory elements remain the same: humility, recognition of personal sin, a knowledge of Christ’s atonement, and repentance with real intent to keep the Lord’s commandments.


PLEASE, PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THIS LAST PART, IT IS THE KEY TO FINALLY OBTAINING THIS BLESSING THAT YOU SEEK, WHETHER YOU HAVE NEVER HAD IT, OR WHETHER YOU HAVE HAD IT BEFORE.


"The key to spiritual rebirth consists in presenting to our Savior at some point our sacrifice of a broken heart and a contrite spirit. As we do so, we become increasingly aware, as never before, of the tremendous debt that he paid for us. We become increasingly aware of our Savior’s suffering of body and spirit and how we have contributed to that suffering through our sins. As the knowledge and understanding of this reality bursts upon us—the reality of Gethsemane and Golgotha—it begins to kindle a burning fire within our hearts. As that fire grows, it begins to burn away the layers of rationalizations we have placed protectively around our hearts. We see our remaining sins clearly, and, truly humbling ourselves, we feel our hearts changing as we remove the protective layers of rationalizations from around our hearts."

I can find no better words than this, than to describe the process of what happens immediately preceding the baptism of fire that I have experienced.


At the end of all of this, many people say to me, "Stahura, if everyone is supposed to have these large miraculous experiences, that excludes a lot o people!"

To that, the talk says the following:

Some of us may fear to face such questions, but there is no need for fear or confusion. As we honestly seek these answers with full purpose of heart, fighting the valiant fight of faith, we will discover that “the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.”


Just to invite some people who have discussed this topic with me:

So to respond to your other earlier post, I just want to say that I don't know for sure how to think about this whole process yet, but my inclination is to say that being born again is a process, and that being baptized by fire for the first time, or any other time, culminates in being sealed, which I would equate with having your calling and election made sure. Remember that vision of David O. McKay, where the phrase was, "those who have truly been born again" (because they have overcome the world). This points to the fact that we can be born again in degrees, and while the starting point might be the "culminating" point where one starts the process, the real culmination is when you are completely sanctified and sealed and had your calling and election made sure. I have yet to receive that, and I do not feel fully sanctified yet. I'm still working on many of those weaknesses that I mentioned. But the reasurrances from the Lord have been great, and I don't feel less of a person because I haven't had this sealing by the Holy Spirit of Promise take place yet. I trust as I take the Holy Spirit as my guide and let him tutor me, that will happen someday when the time is right.

I have so many flaws and weaknesses and it is this very fact that prevents me from feeling that I am superior to any person. I know all that I could do to receive a remission of my sins was to have a broken heart and a contrite spirit. I was brought to know of my own nothingness and the nothingness of all things if it were not for God. Without Him we are just objects in space.

It is my persistent and weakened state that continuously compells me to call out to God and beg for mercy and power and strength. I know that without Him I can not do anything. I know that without Him I will fail. I know from experience that through being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost we can have a mighty change of heart and become new creatures (born again) with new eyes to see and new ears to hear and new hearts to listen. My desires have been changed so that to become Good overwhelms my flesh and my desires for vengence, anger, hate, lust, contention, opposition, varience, etc.

Two Sundays ago I was teaching in Elder's Quorum. The lesson was on the music of the gospel. I taught the discussion using the ideas in the conference talk and also some quotes from Elder Eyring. Other than that the discussion was Spirit lead. It was a very good discussion. We identified the music of the gospel as charity. That is why we act. We identified obtaining charity as something we gain by being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost and beginning to do all things that the Spirit tells us to do. As we act on promptings the frequency of the promptings will increase until the frequency is near to constant companionship of the Holy Spirit. I testified that Jeuss Christ has power to overcome great adversity, trials, abuses, and impediments. I testified that it is through the atonement of Jesus Christ that we are given power by repenting and having a broken heart and a contrinte spirit. I testified that the baptism by fire and the Holy Spirit is real and we must seek after it. At the end of the discussion our High Councilman came to me and told me that he loves hearing me teach. I told him that if I said anything good it was the Spirit. He said, well, you have the Spirit. I have known this man for many years.

-Finrock

Of course the baptism of fire is a legit, physical experience - I have experienced it three distinct times in my life - they were unmistakable and unlike anything else and never to be forgotten (and yes, it burned like 'fire', no pain, only joy and love). The Lord is well aware of what we need. I would trust him over what you read on this or any other internet forum or 'message board' (can't believe that's even a 'thing' - wondering where we should get truth - the internet or Christ... #-o ). If CHRIST wants to give you your BF&HG, etc. he will. The Savior gives us what we need, when we need it, how we need it. If you don't believe and trust that, then this whole problem/discussion is moot.

Here's the way I think about it.
It is a process, but the process starts with an event. THE event. The actual reception and enjoyment of the gift that you were promised.

We haven't even entered in by the way until we have this baptism of fire, which is NOT a process, but an event.
Once you have received this baptism of fire(Elder's Christofferson and Romney say that baptism of fire = sanctification) THEN you are on this path, and the process has truly begun. You have had that mighty change, and from that point on you seek to become more sanctified. After that point, you can receive a larger portion of the Spirit of God and grow from grace to grace, eventually you can receive a fullness. In this way, it's like a burning ember. If you are diligent, obedient, and do what the Spirit directs, you can have many baptisms of fire and many spiritual experiences that "Accelerate" This process.

Does this sound close to what you believe?

It sounds like you believe it is an event. I think you also maintain most people have not had this dramatic event. So what do you do with them?

I agree that it was an event for me....I had my experience almost 2 years ago, and since then I have had two more "events" that had a lot of scriptural symbolism. I did have an event about 10 years ago but I didn't follow the spirit after that event I followed direction from priesthood leaders because I viewed, at that time anyway, their counsel as being obedient to the spirit ( I was interacting with many priesthood leaders over the years and receiving counsel for many different trials that occurred over that 10 year period)....as I look back...priesthood counsel from leaders is NOT the same as following the spirit.

They frequently do give beneficial counsel, but the spirit gives YOU the counsel you should follow. I had some very strong impressions at that time to NOT follow certain leaders counsels But i did anyway, but I had been taught that your bishops have discernment for you....after having those specific incidences of ignoring the spirit for priesthood counsel turn out very negative for me........when I had an "event" two years ago...I chose to only follow the spirit.....I had a total of 3 events occur now in the last two years, plus very clear confirmations of outward witnesses that I am on my path. I believe that is what it means to be on the straight and narrow path...you walk in the light...you aren't searching for it...it is laid out in front of you...you just have to take the steps. each time I follow the counsel of the spirit...Im put in a position of more peace and prosperity. This is my witness.

What do you do with those people....???? well you're supposed to enter in the gate (which is wide and many are lead into the darkness)....So how do you enter...You offer a broken heart and contrite spirit for whatever it is that you need to (I was just an overwhelmed mom who was desperate for truth and was confused by all the churches doctrines especially polygamy...believe it or not, these things were destroying my faith period)....this is part of what I offered...and I cried to God like enos for three days in between caring for my kids and family...I didn't stop praying until He Took it...all my pains....then I felt an outpouring of the spirit that was so consuming (like an energy)...that lasted for 3 days...it was pure Euphoria, I'm assuming the high someone gets on drugs...I felt like I had electricity running through my skin....after that someone told me that it was a "baptism of fire"...once I understood that concept, I made a commitment to follow the spirit, and I took to the scriptures. Since then, I have had two more witnesses followed by broken heart and contrite spirit incidences. In the church, our 8 year olds are not offering broken hearts or contrite spirits...the ordinances are merely just "patterns, types, shadows"...they are symbols of what we MUST do to receive the event. Or at least that is what I believe. Look at who is raising their arm to the square...it's the person baptizing the child...we promise...we covenant....like the jews covenanted to circumcize their 8 day old child. We do the same thing....but the event comes when you apply it.

[Arenera]

Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, King Benjamin, Alma

The Lord's dealings with the Nephites indicate that when the people of God were worthy to receive the higher blessings of the gospel, they were not denied them. Being a more righteous branch of Israel, the Nephites were given the gift of the Holy Ghost and the higher order of gospel law and ordinances which pertains to the Melchizedek Priesthood.

In speaking of the blessings of the second Comforter which he received, Lehi said: "The Lord hath redeemed my soul from hell; I have beheld his glory, and I am encircled about eternally in the arms of his love."

Nephi testified of seeing Christ and said: "Wherefore, my soul delighteth to prophesy concerning him, for I have seen his day, and my heart doth magnify his holy name."

Of some of the blessings which he received by obtaining the second Comforter, Nephi said: My voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me. And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceeding high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things; yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.

Jacob also obtained the second Comforter. In speaking of Jesus, Nephi said: "My brother, Jacob, also has seen him as I have seen him." To Jacob, Lehi therefore said: "I know that thou art redeemed, because of the righteousness of thy Redeemer; for thou hast beheld that in the fulness of time he cometh to bring salvation unto men. And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory."

Jacob wrote: "We labor diligently among our people, that we might persuade them to come unto Christ, and partake of the goodness of God, that they might enter into his rest, lest by any means he should swear in his wrath they should not enter in, as in the provocation in the days of temptation while the children of Israel were in the wilderness."

King Benjamin admonished his people to be steadfast and immovable in righteousness, that they might be sealed unto eternal life.

And having shown that in earlier ages "there were many, exceeding great many, who were made pure and entered into the rest of the Lord their God" by establishing the divine order which has its basis in the law and covenants of the Melchizedek Priesthood, Alma said to members of the church in his day: "And now, my brethren, I would that ye should humble yourselves before God, and bring forth fruit meet for repentance, that ye may also enter into that rest."

[Arenera]

3 Nephi 9
20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost

[Arenera]

1 Timothy 4:12
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

[Zathura]

Of some of the blessings which he received by obtaining the second Comforter, Nephi said: My voice have I sent up on high; and angels came down and ministered unto me. And upon the wings of his Spirit hath my body been carried away upon exceeding high mountains. And mine eyes have beheld great things; yea, even too great for man; therefore I was bidden that I should not write them.

21 He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh.

[Zathura]

King Benjamin admonished his people to be steadfast and immovable in righteousness, that they might be sealed unto eternal life.

1 And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words...

2.O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.

3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and ,they were filled with joy having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them.

[Arenera]

Cloven Tongues of Fire

I fear this supernal gift is being obscured by programs and activities and schedules and so many meetings. There are so many places to go, so many things to do in this noisy world. We can be too busy to pay attention to the promptings of the Spirit.

The voice of the Spirit is a still, small voice—a voice that is felt rather than heard. It is a spiritual voice that comes into the mind as a thought put into your heart.

All over the world ordinary men, women, and children, not completely aware that they have the gift, bless their families, teach, preach, and minister by the Spirit within them.

[drtanner]

Oct 2017 from Elder Bednars talk in conference

As we press forward submissively with faith in the Savior, then because of His Atonement and by the power of the Holy Ghost, “a mighty change [takes place] in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.”5 We are “born again; yea, born of God, changed from [our] carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God.”6 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”7

Such a comprehensive change in our nature typically does not occur quickly or all at once. Like the Savior, we also receive “not of the fulness at the first, but [receive] grace for grace.”8 “For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom.”9

Priesthood ordinances and sacred covenants are essential in this ongoing process of spiritual rebirth; they also are the means God has appointed whereby we receive His exceeding great and precious promises. Ordinances that are received worthily and remembered continually open the heavenly channels through which the power of godliness can flow into our lives. Covenants that are honored steadfastly and remembered always provide purpose and the assurance of blessings in both mortality and for eternity

[diligently seeking]

Oct 2017 from Elder Bednars talk in conference

As we press forward submissively with faith in the Savior, then because of His Atonement and by the power of the Holy Ghost, “a mighty change [takes place] in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.”5 We are “born again; yea, born of God, changed from [our] carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God.”6 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”7

Such a comprehensive change in our nature typically does not occur quickly or all at once. Like the Savior, we also receive “not of the fulness at the first, but [receive] grace for grace.”8 “For behold, thus saith the Lord God: I will give unto the children of men line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little; and blessed are those who hearken unto my precepts, and lend an ear unto my counsel, for they shall learn wisdom.”9

Priesthood ordinances and sacred covenants are essential in this ongoing process of spiritual rebirth; they also are the means God has appointed whereby we receive His exceeding great and precious promises. Ordinances that are received worthily and remembered continually open the heavenly channels through which the power of godliness can flow into our lives. Covenants that are honored steadfastly and remembered always provide purpose and the assurance of blessings in both mortality and for eternity

Drtanner, I am grateful every day to increase in light and truth. Growing in the grace of God is the most sublime most rewarding and most joyful pursuit in this probationary existence. I love how Enos puts it.

3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart...
26 And I saw that I must soon go down to my grave, having been wrought upon by the power of God that I must preach and prophesy unto this people, and declare the word according to the truth which is in Christ. And I have declared it in all my days, and have rejoiced in it above that of the world.

Drtanner, at the end of the day we know with a surety and we testify with a surety the things that we've experienced, yes?

There is a reason we do not learn that King Benjamin's people say I am grateful for the process of growth that increasingly took away my disposition to do evil etc.

No, in actuality this occurred for them as a result of immediate changes-- Mighty changes of the heart through faith on Christ and repentance which brought the experience of BoF & H.G. (yes, it is also true after the reception of BoF & H.G we continue to nurture and grow and receive in the strength of the Lord)

Mosiah 4:

1 And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had made an end of speaking the words which had been delivered unto him by the angel of the Lord, that he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and behold they had fallen to the earth, for the fear of the Lord had come upon them.
2 And they had viewed themselves in their own carnal state, even less than the dust of the earth. And they all cried aloud with one voice, saying: O have mercy, and apply the atoning blood of Christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins, and our hearts may be purified; for we believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who created heaven and earth, and all things; who shall come down among the children of men.
3 And it came to pass that after they had spoken these words the Spirit of the Lord came upon them, and they were filled with joy, having received a remission of their sins, and having peace of conscience, because of the exceeding faith which they had in Jesus Christ who should come, according to the words which king Benjamin had spoken unto them...

11. And again I say unto you as I have said before, that as ye have come to the knowledge of the glory of God, or if ye have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love, and have received a remission of your sins, which causeth such exceedingly great joy in your souls, even so I would that ye should remember, and always retain in remembrance, the greatness of God, and your own nothingness, and his goodness and long-suffering towards you, unworthy creatures, and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility, calling on the name of the Lord daily, and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come, which was spoken by the mouth of the angel...

20 And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy.

Mosiah 5
And now, it came to pass that when king Benjamin had thus spoken to his people, he sent among them, desiring to know of his people if they believed the words which he had spoken unto them.
2 And they all cried with one voice, saying: Yea, we believe all the words which thou hast spoken unto us; and also, we know of their surety and truth, because of the Spirit of the Lord Omnipotent, which has wrought a mighty change in us, or in our hearts, that we have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.
3 And we, ourselves, also, through the infinite goodness of God, and the manifestations of his Spirit, have great views of that which is to come; and were it expedient, we could prophesy of all things.
4 And it is the faith which we have had on the things which our king has spoken unto us that has brought us to this great knowledge, whereby we do rejoice with such exceedingly great joy.

[drtanner]

There is a reason we do not learn that King Benjamin's people say I am grateful for the process of growth that increasingly took away my disposition to do evil etc.

That is the reason why Elder Bednar used the word “typically”

Interestingly Elder Christofferson who also has taught in general conference that conversion is a process shares a story of a mission president who has a profound experience.

Not long ago, a friend recounted to me an experience he had while serving as a mission president. He had undergone a surgery that required several weeks of recuperation. During his recovery, he devoted time to searching the scriptures. One afternoon as he pondered the Savior’s words in the 27th chapter of 3 Nephi, he drifted off to sleep. He subsequently related:

“I fell into a dream in which I was given a vivid, panoramic view of my life. I was shown my sins, poor choices, the times … I had treated people with impatience, plus the omissions of good things I should have said or done. … [A] comprehensive … [review of] my life was shown to me in just a few minutes, but it seemed much longer. I awoke, startled, and … instantly dropped to my knees beside the bed and began to pray, to plead for forgiveness, pouring out the feelings of my heart like I had never done previously.

“Prior to the dream, I didn’t know that I [had] such great need to repent. My faults and weaknesses suddenly became so plainly clear to me that the gap between the person I was and the holiness and goodness of God seemed [like] millions of miles. In my prayer that late afternoon, I expressed my deepest gratitude to Heavenly Father and to the Savior with my whole heart for what They had done for me and for the relationships I treasured with my wife and children. While on my knees I also felt God’s love and mercy that was so palpable, despite my feeling so unworthy. …

“I can say I haven’t been the same since that day. … My heart changed. … What followed is that I developed more empathy toward others, with a greater capacity to love, coupled with a sense of urgency to preach the gospel. … I could relate to the messages of faith, hope, and the gift of repentance found in the Book of Mormon [as] never before.”19

Is he contradicting himself? Did he change his mind on how conversion works? No, I think there is more to understanding how when and why these experiences happen in the process of coming to Christ.

[BeNotDeceived]

Cloven Tongues of Fire

Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

“Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

“For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.”
.

Footnote 31 are words from 2nd Nephi 32:2-5.

The words of Christ are what my post in Last Days Timeline was based on.

Primarily the Parable of the Good Samaritan.

The Lord Jesus pointedly stated “Behold, I have forewarned you,” drove my choice in title of another thread where I attempt to summarize matters.

Turns out those words are a paraphrase, and not a direct quote, near as I can tell.

The words of Christ indeed are supreme, and special in the case of telling us what to do, which really was my reason for wishing to know when prophesied events will occur, so to plan my course accordingly.

Thank you for bringing this address to my attention.

[diligently seeking]

There is a reason we do not learn that King Benjamin's people say I am grateful for the process of growth that increasingly took away my disposition to do evil etc.

That is the reason why Elder Bednar used the word “typically”

Interestingly Elder Christofferson who also has taught in general conference that conversion is a process shares a story of a mission president who has a profound experience.

Not long ago, a friend recounted to me an experience he had while serving as a mission president. He had undergone a surgery that required several weeks of recuperation. During his recovery, he devoted time to searching the scriptures. One afternoon as he pondered the Savior’s words in the 27th chapter of 3 Nephi, he drifted off to sleep. He subsequently related:

“I fell into a dream in which I was given a vivid, panoramic view of my life. I was shown my sins, poor choices, the times … I had treated people with impatience, plus the omissions of good things I should have said or done. … [A] comprehensive … [review of] my life was shown to me in just a few minutes, but it seemed much longer. I awoke, startled, and … instantly dropped to my knees beside the bed and began to pray, to plead for forgiveness, pouring out the feelings of my heart like I had never done previously.

“Prior to the dream, I didn’t know that I [had] such great need to repent. My faults and weaknesses suddenly became so plainly clear to me that the gap between the person I was and the holiness and goodness of God seemed [like] millions of miles. In my prayer that late afternoon, I expressed my deepest gratitude to Heavenly Father and to the Savior with my whole heart for what They had done for me and for the relationships I treasured with my wife and children. While on my knees I also felt God’s love and mercy that was so palpable, despite my feeling so unworthy. …

“I can say I haven’t been the same since that day. … My heart changed. … What followed is that I developed more empathy toward others, with a greater capacity to love, coupled with a sense of urgency to preach the gospel. … I could relate to the messages of faith, hope, and the gift of repentance found in the Book of Mormon [as] never before.”19

Is he contradicting himself? Did he change his mind on how conversion works? No, I think there is more to understanding how when and why these experiences happen in the process of coming to Christ.

What amazing growth and testimony expanding experiences the disciples had with Christ being at his side for 3 blessed years. Yet, through it all---- they were not converted. Christ told Peter when thou art converted convert they brethren. What was the solidifying event that occurred for them that healed them and converted them etc?

The promised blessings of the gospel are typical for all of us who hunger and thirst after righteousness and bring forth a broken heart and contrite spirit being steadfast in our faith in Christ.