Baptism of Fire or Conversion

[aeon]

excerpt from my diary : August 2017
this morning I asked the Lord if I had received the baptism of fire. Answer : no.

I'm an active faithful member of the church. I love the Lord and repent often in order to come closer to him. I receive revelations and I go to the temple. I can see my progression since I got baptized 15 years ago. Yet I have not enjoyed that special moment that endowment on the spirit. I look foward to the day when I become a new creature in Christ.

Thanks all for your insights.

[diligently seeking]

excerpt from my diary : August 2017
this morning I asked the Lord if I had received the baptism of fire. Answer : no.

I'm an active faithful member of the church. I love the Lord and repent often in order to come closer to him. I receive revelations and I go to the temple. I can see my progression since I got baptized 15 years ago. Yet I have not enjoyed that special moment that endowment on the spirit. I look foward to the day when I become a new creature in Christ.

Thanks all for your insights.

Hebrew's 11: 6


God bless all of us in our journey in and through Christ to receive and ascend.

Thomas Griffith, an editor for Time magazine some years ago, wrote of our era: “We are so caught up in the complexity and clamor of our way of life that we do not realize how much all of these powerful efforts to attract or divert us are a tax on our spirit: they do a double harm, in the triviality of what they offer and the fatigue which they engender, that keeps us from doing something more profitable with our time. Even to screen out that portion of our culture that we do not want becomes an effort of will. Simplicity of life is no longer ours to begin with, as it was in the days of remote farms, and of school lessons written on the back of a shovel. In a world of congestion, shattering noise and an infinity of seductions, we must, in the midst of a carnival, find and insist upon our own decent simplicity” (The Waist-High Culture [1959], 188).

[Arenera]

excerpt from my diary : August 2017
this morning I asked the Lord if I had received the baptism of fire. Answer : no.

I'm an active faithful member of the church. I love the Lord and repent often in order to come closer to him. I receive revelations and I go to the temple. I can see my progression since I got baptized 15 years ago. Yet I have not enjoyed that special moment that endowment on the spirit. I look foward to the day when I become a new creature in Christ.

Thanks all for your insights.

Unbelief
@marc likes Ether 4:

7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

11 But he that believeth these things which I have spoken, him will I visit with the manifestations of my Spirit, and he shall know and bear record. For because of my Spirit he shall know that these things are true; for it persuadeth men to do good.

For behold, I am the Father, I am the light, and the life, and the truth of the world.

13 Come unto me, O ye Gentiles, and I will show unto you the greater things, the knowledge which is hid up because of unbelief.

14 Come unto me, O ye house of Israel, and it shall be made manifest unto you how great things the Father hath laid up for you, from the foundation of the world; and it hath not come unto you, because of unbelief.

15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel.

Blessing on Baptism of Fire

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

How can we help our unbelief? I’ve heard that imagining/pondering can help, visualizing yourself receiving the spiritual gifts, being in these events like the later part of Helaman 5.

[Arenera]

Fire and the Holy Ghost

For the longer-standing member of the Church who has become preoccupied with the world or in little ways has allowed his religious life to be more procedural than of the spirit, there is something to be rediscovered (and for some, discovered for the first time) with the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.

Jesus Christ when teaching made it clear that while his authorized servants can confer the gift of the Holy Ghost, he is the one who actually bestows the Spirit: “Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost” (3 Ne. 12:1).

Elder John Taylor of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles called it the “fire of truth,

The miracle of the manifestation of fire and the Holy Ghost has the capacity to reach within a person’s heart. While that person may have been a bystander regarding the things of God, the power of the Spirit is able to turn such a person into a living witness of this sacred work.

The scriptures, and even our church history, record miraculous instances when visible flames encircled the humble followers of Christ—literal manifestations of fire and the Holy Ghost—but more often this fire works quietly and unseen in the hearts of those who have received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The witness, the change, the cleansing that comes gradually is no less powerful to the person with the right heart, and he or she is impelled to action whether the experience was a sudden, miraculous manifestation or the quiet workings of the Spirit. “Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word” (Alma 5:7).

“A testimony comes when the Holy Ghost gives the earnest seeker a witness of the truth. A moving testimony vitalizes faith; that is, it induces repentance and obedience to the commandments. Conversion, on the other hand, is the fruit of, or the reward for, repentance and obedience. (Of course one’s testimony continues to increase as he is converted.)

“Conversion is effected by divine forgiveness, which remits sins. The sequence is something like this. An honest seeker hears the message. He asks the Lord in prayer if it is true. The Holy Spirit gives him a witness. This is a testimony. If one’s testimony is strong enough, he repents and obeys the commandments. By such obedience he receives divine forgiveness which remits sin. Thus he is converted to a newness of life. His spirit is healed.” 7

A definition of sanctification also helps point out that there is something more when a person can qualify for the fire of the Holy Spirit and endure to the end. “Sanctification is the work of the Holy Spirit by which he who is justified is enabled to keep the Commandments of God and grow in holiness (see Hel. 3:35).” 8

Sanctification comes from heaven and only comes as the Holy Ghost begins to work within a person. In some instances, people seem to grow into these blessings. Sometimes the glimmer of the Spirit is enough to lead people to baptism, but they can falter if they do not cultivate the gift and fire of the Spirit that has been bestowed upon them.

[Arenera]

It seems like we prefer “Conversion” to “Baptism of Fire”

Bible Dictionary:
Conversion
Denotes changing one’s views, in a conscious acceptance of the will of God (Acts 3:19). If followed by continued faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism in water for the remission of sins, and the reception of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, conversion will become complete and will change a natural man into a sanctified, born again, purified person—a new creature in Christ Jesus (see 2 Cor. 5:17). Complete conversion comes after many trials and much testing (see Luke 22:32; D&C 112:12–13). To labor for the conversion of one’s self and others is a noble task, as in Ps. 51:13; Dan. 12:3; James 5:19–20; Alma 26; D&C 18:15–16.

Acts 3:19 ¶ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

D&C 112:12 And pray for thy brethren of the Twelve. Admonish them sharply for my name’s sake, and let them be admonished for all their sins, and be ye faithful before me unto my name.

13 And after their temptations, and much tribulation, behold, I, the Lord, will feel after them, and if they harden not their hearts, and stiffen not their necks against me, they shall be converted, and I will heal them.

Psalms 51:13 Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

Daniel 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Alma 26

D&C 18:15 And if it so be that you should labor all your days in crying repentance unto this people, and bring, save it be one soul unto me, how great shall be your joy with him in the kingdom of my Father!

16 And now, if your joy will be great with one soul that you have brought unto me into the kingdom of my Father, how great will be your joy if you should bring many souls unto me!

Topical Guide:
Conversion, Convert
See also Holy Ghost, Baptism of; Man, New, Spiritually Reborn; Missionary Work; Soul

law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul, Ps. 19:7.

sinners shall be converted unto thee, Ps. 51:13.

understand with their heart, and convert, Isa. 6:10 (Matt. 13:15; Mark 4:12; John 12:40; Acts 28:27).

turn thou to thy God, Hosea 12:6.

turn ye even to me with all your heart, Joel 2:12.

Except ye be converted, and become as little children, Matt. 18:3.

when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren, Luke 22:32.

they were pricked in their heart, Acts 2:37.

Repent … and be converted, Acts 3:19.

declaring the conversion of the Gentiles, Acts 15:3.

converteth the sinner from the error of his way, James 5:20.

wrought a mighty change in us, Mosiah 5:2 (Alma 5:12–14).

desirous to come into the fold of God, Mosiah 18:8.

all mankind … must be born again; yea, born of God, Mosiah 27:25.

bow down before God, Alma 22:16.

repentance bringeth a change of heart, Hel. 15:7.

many shall be converted, D&C 44:4.

remnants of Jacob … be converted, D&C 109:65.

converted and redeemed with Israel, D&C 109:70.

they shall be converted, D&C 112:13.

the souls that we had won in Haran, Abr. 2:15.

See also Ruth 1:16; Isa. 1:27; 14:1; 19:22; 44:5; 45:20; 60:3; Jer. 31:33; 32:39; Ezek. 11:19; 18:31; 36:23, 26; 38:16; 39:7, 21, 23; John 8:32; Acts 9:6; Gal. 3:29; Alma 36:23; D&C 7:4; 15:6; 18:16; 45:54.

[Finrock]

Being baptized by fire, or being converted, is an event that happens and it is pretty much immediate. However, we don't become perfect at this point and without any further advancement or progression needed. We can have a mighty change of heart and still be in need of further progression.

Let me use an analogy. Lets suppose that the highest spiritual progression one can obtain is 1000. There is a person who is at level 3 of their spiritual progression. One day they are baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost and now, in an instant, there are on level 100 of the spiritual progression index. The change from level 3 to level 100 is enormous. It is a mighty change. The person who was at level 3 and is now level 100 is now a completely new person. They aren't the same person they were before. But, have they attained the highest level of spiritual progression after this mighty change? No, because the highest level is 1000 and they are just at 100. But, after such a mighty change and having experienced this spiritual outpouring or endowment, this person is surely converted to the being responsible for their mighty change. They know with a surety that some power outside of themselves exist.

In our spiritual progression we can have other baptisms by fire besides just this one that converts us, that elevates us and lifts us in mighty ways to a higher level of spiritual progression. All in due time.

So, yes, Elder Bednar is correct that their is a progression that comes over time and we don't attain to the highest possible spiritual level in one single moment. However, the baptism by fire and receiving the Holy Ghost and that mighty change that occurs in our life as a result, is an event and it happens suddenly and immediately.

Hopefully this analogy is helpful. It is not a perfect analogy and there are things that this analogy doesn't cover or take in to account but I think it does help make clear how being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost or being converted is an event, even while becoming fully spiritually mature is a process.

-Finrock

[Zathura]

Bump

[Zathura]

Being baptized by fire, or being converted, is an event that happens and it is pretty much immediate. However, we don't become perfect at this point and without any further advancement or progression needed. We can have a mighty change of heart and still be in need of further progression.

Let me use an analogy. Lets suppose that the highest spiritual progression one can obtain is 1000. There is a person who is at level 3 of their spiritual progression. One day they are baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost and now, in an instant, there are on level 100 of the spiritual progression index. The change from level 3 to level 100 is enormous. It is a mighty change. The person who was at level 3 and is now level 100 is now a completely new person. They aren't the same person they were before. But, have they attained the highest level of spiritual progression after this mighty change? No, because the highest level is 1000 and they are just at 100. But, after such a mighty change and having experienced this spiritual outpouring or endowment, this person is surely converted to the being responsible for their mighty change. They know with a surety that some power outside of themselves exist.

In our spiritual progression we can have other baptisms by fire besides just this one that converts us, that elevates us and lifts us in mighty ways to a higher level of spiritual progression. All in due time.

So, yes, Elder Bednar is correct that their is a progression that comes over time and we don't attain to the highest possible spiritual level in one single moment. However, the baptism by fire and receiving the Holy Ghost and that mighty change that occurs in our life as a result, is an event and it happens suddenly and immediately.

Hopefully this analogy is helpful. It is not a perfect analogy and there are things that this analogy doesn't cover or take in to account but I think it does help make clear how being baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost or being converted is an event, even while becoming fully spiritually mature is a process.

-Finrock