[Deleted]

[TrueIntent]

Wait...let me see if I get what you are saying....we will reject GOD??? because we are taught to go through Christ? Or you think we will reject this Josephite guy who is???? The destroyer....who is???? and elias???? who is???

Im confused by your post, but I'm trying to understand what you are saying...here are some thoughts that came to my mind...but i don't know if it applies cuz i don't know exactly what you are saying.

there are some quotes in the journal of discourses...one from brigham where they say, referring to the temple ceremony, that Joseph is one of the sentinels we have to pass. There are multiple quotes from different people..

Joseph Smith....“I cannot lie down until all my work is finished. I never think any evil, nor do anything to the harm of my fellow-man. When I am called by the trump of the archangel and weighed in the balance, you will all know me then. I add no more. God bless you all.”23

[TrueIntent]

Wait...let me see if I get what you are saying....we will reject GOD??? because we are taught to go through Christ? Or you think we will reject this Josephite guy who is???? The destroyer....who is???? and elias???? who is???

I'm saying that if the Elias who restores all things (the Josephite) stands up and he's working miracles and so forth, and he testifies that he had a First Vision-type of experience, but instead of saying that the Father introduces the Son and then the Son talks to the Josephite, he says that the Father testified of His Son and then the Father continued talking to the Josephite, and then the Josephite continues his narrative, stating that he then commanded the Son and the angels to bestow keys or whatever upon him, etc.; if this is his narrative, would the latter-day saints reject the man because we have been taught that all revelation comes through Christ? Or, would we go, "The man is working all manner of miracles and he says he was the destroying angel in the pre-mortal life and that his authority is on an equal par to the Son and that he is on the Father's authority and mission, not on the Son's authority, so, given the miracles, the guy must be legit."

So....in the last days there will be people working mighty miracles to deceive many.....My question is...we are only told to accept Christ. We don't need to accept the destroying angel...do we? It may be true that he can work miracles and stuff, but in scripture are we supposed to accept the destroying angel or christ? I think my question is do we need to accept anyone other than Christ??

[TrueIntent]

On a side note...i listen to lots of people who claim more revelation to me...including the leaders of the church, HOWEVER, i experiment on what they say with real intent and by study of the scriptures, and if it's not true...I reject it. I think it's okay to listen to people who claim miracles and all that crap...I certainly want to learn from those people...I think we are supposed to attempt to discern so that one day we can Identify the Christ.

[Seek the Truth]

I don't know it this helps.

http://thinlyveiled.com/abbaton.htm

The last document in the volume is a discourse on the Angel of Death, who is here called Abbatôn, i.e. Abaddôn, the Hebrew name of Apollyôn (Rev. 9:11), the Angel or King of the Abyss. The author of the discourse is Timothy, Patriarch of Alexandria (died 385), who transcribes a legend which he found in an ancient volume in the library which was founded by the Holy Apostles, and supplied with histories of their lives and acts for the edification of believers. The disciples were unable to understand why Abbatôn had been made by God the king of all mankind, and they asked our Lord to explain this to them before He finally ascended into heaven. The legend states that God sent seven angels one after the other to the earth, to bring back to Him therefrom some virgin earth, out of which He might fashion Adam

Now therefore, O my Lord, we wish Thee to inform us concerning the day wherein Thou didst stablish Abbatôn, the Angel of Death, and didst make him to be awful and disturbing, and to pursue all souls until they yield up their spirits, so that we may preach concerning him to all mankind, even as we preach concerning all his fellow angels whom Thou hast created, and of whom Thou hast shewn us the days of their stablishing, and also that when men hear of [him on] the day of his stablishing they may be afraid, and may repent, and may give charities and gifts on the day of his commemoration, just as they do to Michael and Gabriel, so that their souls may find mercy and respite on the day of Thy holy Resurrection.'

And the Saviour, the Storehouse that is filled with mercy and compassion of every kind, Who loveth everything which is good in respect of His day, Who wisheth not to cause us disappointment about anything concerning which we are asked, said unto them, 'O ye whom I have chosen from out of the whole world, I will hide nothing from you, but I will inform you how My Father stablished him (i.e. Abbatôn) over all the created things which He had made.

It came to pass that when My Father was creating the heavens, and the earth, and the things which are therein, He spake the word, and they all came into being, Angel, and Archangel, and Cherubim, and Seraphim, and Thrones, and Divine Governors, and Dominions, and all the Powers that are in the heavens, and all the army of heaven. And He made the earth also, [and] the wild animals, and the reptiles, and the cattle, and the birds, and everything which moveth upon it. And He planted also a paradise in the eastern part of the earth. And My Father saw that the whole world was a desert, and that there was no one to work it. And My Father said, "Let us make a man in Our image and likeness, that he may continue to praise us by day and by night,

And when the Angel of God had departed to the earth he stood upon it in great power and might, and in the commandment of God. And he reached out his hand to take some of it, and straightway the dust (or, clay) cried out with a loud voice, saying "I swear unto thee by the name of Him that created the heavens, and the earth, and the things that are therein, that thou shalt not approach me to take me unto God." And the angel Mouriêl was not afraid at [the mention of] the Name of My Father when he heard it, and he paid no heed thereto, but he went to it, and he laid hold of it with firmness and determination, and he hrought it to My Father [Who] rejoiced over it. And He took the clay from the hand of the angel, and made Adam according to Our image and likeness. and He left him lying for forty days and forty nights without putting breath into him. And He heaved sighs over him daily, saying, "If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains." And I said unto My Father, "Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him." And My Father said unto Me," If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state." And I said unto My Father, "Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fultill Thy command."

And the man lived straightway, and became a living soul, according to the image and likeness of God. And when Adam had risen up he cast himself down before [My] Father, saying, " My Lord and my God! Thou hast made me to come into being [from a state in which] I did not exist." Thereupon My Father set him upon a great throne, and He placed on his head a crown of glory, and He put a royal sceptre [in his hand], and My father made every order [of angels] in the heavens to come and worship him, whether angel or archangel. And all the hosts of heaven worshipped God first of all, and then they worshipped Adam, saying, "Hail, thou image and likeness of GodI" And He intended that the order of the angels who were fashioned [before Adam] should worship him, and My Father said unto him (i.e. their chief), " Come, thou thyself shalt worship my image and likeness." And he, a being of great pride, drew himself up in a shameless manner, and said, 'It is meet that this [man Adam] should come and worship me, for I existed before he came into being."

'And when My Father saw his great pride, and that his wickedness and his evil-doing were complete, He commanded all the armies of heaven, saying, 'Remove the writing [which is] in the hand of the proud one, strip ye off his armour, and cast ye him down upon the earth, for his time hath come. For he is the greatest of them all he is the head over them, and is like a king. and he commandeth them as the general of an army commandeth his soldiers; he is the head over them, and their names are written in his hand." Thus is it with this cunning one, and the [names of the] angels, were written in his hand. And all the angels gathered together to him, and they did not wish to remove the writing from his hand. And My Father commanded them to bring a sharp reaping-knife, and to stab him therewith on this side and on that, right through his body to the vertebrae of his shoulders, and he was unable to hold himself up. And straightway My Father commanded a mighty Cherubim, and he smote him, and cast him down from heaven upon the earth, because of his pride, and he broke his wings and his ribs and made him helpless, and those whom he had brought with him became devils with him.

'And My Father made them take Adam into Paradise, and a multitude of angels sang hymns before him, and they left him there, and he continued to ascribe blessing unto God. And Adam lived alone in Paradise for one hundred years.



'And the Devil went to meet Adam outside Paradise, and he said unto him," Behold, O Adam, I was cast forth from my glory through thee, and behold, I have made thee to be expelled from the Paradise of Delight because thou hast caused me to become a stranger to my dwelling-place in heaven. Know thou that I will never cease to contend against thee and against all those who shall come after thee from out of thee, until I have taken them all down into Amente with me."

'And when Adam heard these things he became very sad, and shed many tears both by day and by night. And My Father said unto Mouriêl the angel, "Behold, the man whom I created in My image hath transgressed the commandment which I gave him. He hath eaten of the tree, and hath brought a great injury upon all mankind. For this reason I make thee king over him, for it was thou who didst bring him to Me on this day, which is the thirteenth of the month Hathor.

"Thy name shall he I a terror in the mouth of every one. They shall call thee Abbatôn, the Angel of Death.

"Thy form and thine image shall be [associated with] complaining, and wrath, and threatening in all souls, until they have yielded up their spirits.

"Thine eye and thy face shall he like unto a wheel of fire which beareth waves and waves [of fire] before me.

"The sound of thy nostrils shall be like unto the sound of a lake of fire wherein burn fire and sulphur (or, naphtha).

"The sound of the noises made by thy lips shall be like unto the sounds of the seven thunders which shall speak with their tongues.

"Thy head shall be like unto these great pillars of fire which [reach] from heaven downwards.

"Thy teeth shall project from thy mouth the length of half a cubit.

"The fingers of thy hands and [the toes of] thy feet shall be like unto sharp reaping-knives.

And so forth.

[Thomas]

Well that is a strange way to look at things. I thought the Passover was a representation of Christ to a tee. Christ is the Lamb who sheds his blood so that the destroyer ( Satan) cannot destroy us. Thus the blood of a lamb on the door which allows the destroyer to Passover the Israelites in Egypt. This should have served as a reminder, to all Israel that their salvation comes by the blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ our Savior and the one who becomes the Father of our salvation. Somehow they forgot that symbolism.

[TrueIntent]

My question is...we are only told to accept Christ. We don't need to accept the destroying angel...do we? It may be true that he can work miracles and stuff, but in scripture are we supposed to accept the destroying angel or christ? I think my question is do we need to accept anyone other than Christ??

Jesus said that the Elias who restores all things must first come:

And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (Matthew 17:10-11)

So, if Elias comes and he's the destroying angel that is spoken of in the scriptures:

And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen. (D&C 89:21)

And if Elias says his authority is on an equal standing with that of the Son, and so his account of the First Vision might be different than what Joseph Smith had, because Joseph wasn't on an equal standing with the Son. Joseph wasn't even on an equal standing with Michael. But if Elias is the very destroying angel, and if the destroying angel is on an equal footing with the Son, then his First Vision account might be very different than what Joseph said in his First Vision. It might be an account showing that Elias's authority is greater than all the others. Now, this man is Elias, so to reject him would cause us to lose our salvation. But if his narrative is different than what we've been taught, would the saints reject him? Even though the man is giving all the signs of Elias, all the miracles and whatnot? Even though he is restoring all things and so forth?

Remember, Jesus didn't teach that we need to accept only Christ. Jesus taught the following:

He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward. And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward. (Matthew 10:40-42)

So, if Elias comes and someone receives Elias in the name of Elias, he shall receive Elias's reward. That's the principle. But if Elias's authority is of the Father, and not the Son, or in other words, if his authority is such that even Christ and the angels obey him and he has direct access to the Father, not needing the intermediary of Christ, like all the others, would we the saints reject him because we have been taught that all revelation (and presumably all authority) comes through Christ?

Okay...so I think what you are saying is....John the Baptist was an Elias, that they were supposed to accept before Christ. There is an Elias that will come...and we are supposed to be willing to accept him before Christ comes. And you believe this Elias may be a destroying angel.....correct???

I can accept that.

[TrueIntent]

Okay...so I think what you are saying is....John the Baptist was an Elias, that they were supposed to accept before Christ. There is an Elias that will come...and we are supposed to be willing to accept him before Christ comes. And you believe this Elias may be a destroying angel.....correct???

I can accept that.

Yes, exactly. And since it is my understanding that the destroying angel is on an equal footing with Christ--in other words, he gets his authority directly from the Father, just as Jesus gets his authority directly from the Father (whereas everyone else gets their authority through other people who are above them)--then when this man stands up:

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Isaiah 11:10)

everyone will be obeying him, including Jesus Christ and all the angels. Why? Because Jesus Christ obeys the Father and honors the Father's authority, and so if the destroying angel comes directly authorized by the Father, even Jesus will obey him:

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Revelation 14:14)

And the scriptures indicate that the Elias who restores all things acts with authority of the Father:

And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. (Revelation 7:2-3)

And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads. (Revelation 14:1)

So, when this man wakes up and realizes that he is the very destroying angel that did great things in his pre-mortal existence and becomes empowered:

Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon? Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over? (Isaiah 51:9-10)

it may be that he will have a First Vision type of experience, in which God the Father, and Jesus Christ, and many angels appear to him. And if that happens, it won't be like any other servant of God, who are subservient to all the angels and also to Christ. Instead, it will possibly be a reinstatement of his former position, in which he just resumes his command of everyone who is below the Father and begins issuing orders to Jesus and the angels. And the Father won't speak to Jesus and then have Jesus speak to Elias, but the Father will just directly speak to His servant Elias.

But if that happens, then what will the latter-day saints say? We have been taught that all revelation comes through Christ (see the quotation at the start of this thread) and if this man gives a different narrative, one in which the Father directly speaks to him, and not through Christ, and one in which even Christ is taking orders from him, what will be the reaction of the latter-day saints? Will they reject his witness because it doesn't align with what we've been taught?

Ok.....I see what you are saying...My next question is...is there a place in scripture that shows Christ would be taking orders from a destroying angel? Or that God would give orders to an angel to do things in CONTRAST to what Christ does? Or would they all speak in Unison,..with the same motives and intentions. And wouldnt Christ vouch for the Destroying Angel so that the rest of us could get a confirmation of him. I , as a latter day saint...don't think I would have a problem, if I could receive my own witness, and find that witness through multiple passages of scripture....but Im different...I am a critic of any information I feel contradicts the scriptures...even if it comes from General Authorities...I don't worship people. Because there will be many false christ in the the last days, I feel like we should even question those who claim to be him. And gain a witness for ourselves. So if a guy that claimed to be Christ, that I believed was Christ, vouched for a destroying angel, and then I could get a witness of it, but experimenting on teachings or whatever from the destroying angel (you know planting seeds of faith)....Im open to it. But like I said...im different.

[Alaris]

Ok.....I see what you are saying...My next question is...is there a place in scripture that shows Christ would be taking orders from a destroying angel?

Well, there's this scripture which shows Christ taking orders from an angel:

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Revelation 14:14-16)

Or that God would give orders to an angel to do things in CONTRAST to what Christ does? Or would they all speak in Unison,..with the same motives and intentions. And wouldnt Christ vouch for the Destroying Angel so that the rest of us could get a confirmation of him. I , as a latter day saint...don't think I would have a problem, if I could receive my own witness, and find that witness through multiple passages of scripture....but Im different...I am a critic of any information I feel contradicts the scriptures...even if it comes from General Authorities...I don't worship people. Because there will be many false christ in the the last days, I feel like we should even question those who claim to be him. And gain a witness for ourselves. So if a guy that claimed to be Christ, that I believed was Christ, vouched for a destroying angel, and then I could get a witness of it, but experimenting on teachings or whatever from the destroying angel (you know planting seeds of faith)....Im open to it. But like I said...im different.

They both work for the Father, so there won't be any contradiction between them. And anyone will still be able to receive a witness from the Holy Ghost concerning the destroying angel, so it's not like you simply have to believe him. Anyone can go ask God in prayer and have it confirmed to them that the man is speaking the truth. But I'm wondering if such a scenario as the one I describe is so out of the ordinary that most latter-day saints would scoff and put off praying about it or seeking a witness because they'd think that it most definitely must be an impostor because God would only reveal things through Christ, just like President Joseph Fielding Smith said, but President Joseph Fielding Smith also said that he didn't have time to prove his words by the scriptures, so he never did expound the scriptures to back up his claim, he just put it out there to the saints as a fact and then left it at that, and I suppose most saints would just take it at face value that it's correct given that this was a president of the church that said it.

"One like unto the Son of man" is not necessarily Jesus Christ. The footnote links to him, but it could be a reference because this person is like unto Jesus Christ.

Michael means "like God" or "who is like God" (not a question) or "like unto God." Abraham 3:22-25 is about Michael's choosing, not Jesus' choosing and Michael is referred to specifically in this scripture as:

Abraham 3:24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

If the Hebrew name meaning is used, then verse 24 would read, "And there stood one among them that was Michael"

Abraham 3:27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

I've got a full breakdown on Abraham 3 in the private section on how this scripture is largely misunderstood in the church.

Bottom line is this is not enough evidence to show that the end times Elias is giving the King of Kings orders.

[Finrock]

Ok.....I see what you are saying...My next question is...is there a place in scripture that shows Christ would be taking orders from a destroying angel?

Well, there's this scripture which shows Christ taking orders from an angel:

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Revelation 14:14-16)

Or that God would give orders to an angel to do things in CONTRAST to what Christ does? Or would they all speak in Unison,..with the same motives and intentions. And wouldnt Christ vouch for the Destroying Angel so that the rest of us could get a confirmation of him. I , as a latter day saint...don't think I would have a problem, if I could receive my own witness, and find that witness through multiple passages of scripture....but Im different...I am a critic of any information I feel contradicts the scriptures...even if it comes from General Authorities...I don't worship people. Because there will be many false christ in the the last days, I feel like we should even question those who claim to be him. And gain a witness for ourselves. So if a guy that claimed to be Christ, that I believed was Christ, vouched for a destroying angel, and then I could get a witness of it, but experimenting on teachings or whatever from the destroying angel (you know planting seeds of faith)....Im open to it. But like I said...im different.

They both work for the Father, so there won't be any contradiction between them. And anyone will still be able to receive a witness from the Holy Ghost concerning the destroying angel, so it's not like you simply have to believe him. Anyone can go ask God in prayer and have it confirmed to them that the man is speaking the truth. But I'm wondering if such a scenario as the one I describe is so out of the ordinary that most latter-day saints would scoff and put off praying about it or seeking a witness because they'd think that it most definitely must be an impostor because God would only reveal things through Christ, just like President Joseph Fielding Smith said, but President Joseph Fielding Smith also said that he didn't have time to prove his words by the scriptures, so he never did expound the scriptures to back up his claim, he just put it out there to the saints as a fact and then left it at that, and I suppose most saints would just take it at face value that it's correct given that this was a president of the church that said it.

"One like unto the Son of man" is not necessarily Jesus Christ. The footnote links to him, but it could be a reference because this person is like unto Jesus Christ.

Michael means "like God" or "who is like God" (not a question) or "like unto God." Abraham 3:22-25 is about Michael's choosing, not Jesus' choosing and Michael is referred to specifically in this scripture as:

Abraham 3:24 And there stood one among them that was like unto God, and he said unto those who were with him: We will go down, for there is space there, and we will take of these materials, and we will make an earth whereon these may dwell;

If the Hebrew name meaning is used, then verse 24 would read, "And there stood one among them that was Michael"

Abraham 3:27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

I've got a full breakdown on Abraham 3 in the private section on how this scripture is largely misunderstood in the church.

Bottom line is this is not enough evidence to show that the end times Elias is giving the King of Kings orders.

Michael, in Hebrew, is a question: "Who is like God/El?"

The signification of the name (= "Who islike El"?) was recognized by the Talmudists, who found an allusion to it in Ex. xv. 11 () and in Deut. xxxiii. 26 (), combining the first word of the former passage with the second of the latter (Num. R. ii. 9).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... 79-michael

-Finrock

[Alaris]

That's all very true, Alaris. Saying "like unto" doesn't necessarily mean it's Christ. It could be someone that looks like Christ. But it also could just be Christ and John was so shocked seeing Christ taking orders from an angel that he decided to say "like unto the Son of man" instead of just "the Son of man," because he couldn't believe his eyes. From the text it's impossible to make any determination one way or another.

But it's Christ, nonetheless. And I will be proven right on this.

As for Abraham chapter 3, I used to teach this same principle on my blog many years ago, that it is impossible to make a perfect determination from the text whether "one like unto God" meant Jesus or Michael. From context, 3:27 indicates Jesus Christ, but 3:24 is not so crystal clear.

Unlike Revelation, Abraham 3:27 is a direct translation into English by a Seer. "one like unto the son of man" is not the son of man. Why throw the extra words in there otherwise? We are all striving to be one like unto God and one like unto the Son of Man until one day we will be Sons and Gods ourselves.

Edit: Adam / Michael is a highly advanced spiritual being and the Hebrew is a representation of his premortal name, not his actual premortal name in my humble opinion. So when the Lord names him Michael in the D&C, He has put Adam's true premortal name into the best representation in our impure language.

"Who is like God" may be a question in Hebrew, but I submit to you it is not a question in it's true meaning which is further evidenced in Abraham 3:27. He is like the Father and like the Son, but he is neither .. yet. Adam has earned the meaning behind the name.

[Alaris]

Unlike Revelation, Abraham 3:27 is a direct translation into English by a Seer. "one like unto the son of man" is not the son of man. Why throw the extra words in there otherwise?

Because the Son of Man, that is, the form Jesus took during His mortal ministry, is not exactly how He appeared in His pre-mortal Spirit form, nor how He will appear in His immortal, glorified, resurrected form. Thus, both Joseph Smith translating the Abraham 3:27 verse kept the literal word-for-word translation, and the King James Version translators did the same with Revelation 14, keeping it word-for-word. Because the word-for-word translations conveys the meaning that this Son of Man was similar to the Son of Man that traveled upon earth, but there was something different about Him. But it was the same Son of Man.

In other words, the comparison is to the Lord's mortal form. But His pre-mortal Spirit form and post-resurrection form, are glorified forms, and appear slightly different, thus, this Person was "like unto the Son of Man." That's the answer and solution to this mystery.

This person was like unto the Son of man and it was Michael.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43719

If you do not have access to the private area, let me know and I will pm you a copy.

Edit: Son of Man is a term the Lord has used for his servants such as Ezekiel:

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

This term was used in general conference by one of the apostles, though I can't remember which one. The apostle of the Lord used the scripture in Moses to define the Son of Man as the son of man of holiness. This of course is why there could be more than one meaning behind "son of man" but there is only one "the" son of man.

Moses 6:57 Wherefore teach it unto your children, that all men, everywhere, must repent, or they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God, for no unclean thing can dwell there, or dwell in his presence; for, in the language of Adam, Man of Holiness is his name, and the name of his Only Begotten is the Son of Man, even Jesus Christ, a righteous Judge, who shall come in the meridian of time.

Edit edit:

The wording was not copied from anything in Abraham 3. The two terms "like unto God" and "like unto the Son of Man" are both clues that are simple to understand once that understanding is unlocked like a key in a door.

If this figure is Jesus then ....

Jesus is like unto God - check
Jesus is like unto Himself - X

Michael

Michael is like unto God - check
Michael is like unto Jesus - check

This is actually a huge clue as to who Michael is in the plan of eternal progression.

Also, the scope of Abraham 3 is Earth. Jesus was not chosen at every Earth but chosen at the beginning.

Moses 4:2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.

From the beginning of Earth? Nope - from the beginning of the creation - the firstborn.

I don't mean to bring up the firstborn to derail this thread, as there is a great thread on this topic already, but what is firstborn? Is firstborn something earned at every earth or is it something earned at the beginning of a creation.

Also bear in mind that the language of Abraham 3 indicates it is the Lord who is speaking - the same LORD from the Old Testament who reveals:

Abraham 3:27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.

This is an overt clue as well.

Finally, remember the Lord also chooses His servants just as the Father chose Him.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

So the servant of the Earth - Michael - was chosen by Him who reveals His servants to us--very relevant to this thread.

[TrueIntent]

Ok.....I see what you are saying...My next question is...is there a place in scripture that shows Christ would be taking orders from a destroying angel?

Well, there's this scripture which shows Christ taking orders from an angel:

And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. (Revelation 14:14-16)

Or that God would give orders to an angel to do things in CONTRAST to what Christ does? Or would they all speak in Unison,..with the same motives and intentions. And wouldnt Christ vouch for the Destroying Angel so that the rest of us could get a confirmation of him. I , as a latter day saint...don't think I would have a problem, if I could receive my own witness, and find that witness through multiple passages of scripture....but Im different...I am a critic of any information I feel contradicts the scriptures...even if it comes from General Authorities...I don't worship people. Because there will be many false christ in the the last days, I feel like we should even question those who claim to be him. And gain a witness for ourselves. So if a guy that claimed to be Christ, that I believed was Christ, vouched for a destroying angel, and then I could get a witness of it, but experimenting on teachings or whatever from the destroying angel (you know planting seeds of faith)....Im open to it. But like I said...im different.

They both work for the Father, so there won't be any contradiction between them. And anyone will still be able to receive a witness from the Holy Ghost concerning the destroying angel, so it's not like you simply have to believe him. Anyone can go ask God in prayer and have it confirmed to them that the man is speaking the truth. But I'm wondering if such a scenario as the one I describe is so out of the ordinary that most latter-day saints would scoff and put off praying about it or seeking a witness because they'd think that it most definitely must be an impostor because God would only reveal things through Christ, just like President Joseph Fielding Smith said, but President Joseph Fielding Smith also said that he didn't have time to prove his words by the scriptures, so he never did expound the scriptures to back up his claim, he just put it out there to the saints as a fact and then left it at that, and I suppose most saints would just take it at face value that it's correct given that this was a president of the church that said it.

Based on my own experiences, with people at church and on the forum....most people won't ask for a witness because they have been taught that if they follow the prophet they are safe. Most people dont realize that our own prophets and apostles have contradict one another in doctrine...they just follow who's current and think their good.

Most people don't realize that receiving a witness requires one to "search, ponder, and pray"......when you have made efforts to understand like jospeh smith....then you go to God...and then you receive direction, but effort is always required (not necessarily sacrifice.)....there is effort required...most people think that following someone else fulfills the effort required ( I would say to a point it does)....effort is always required...sincere prayer...a desire to seek....most people won't even dig...they just say...I follow the prophet...what does he say?