House rules...adult children living at home who won't keep rules

[gardener4life]

So with adult children living at home...

Does anyone have experience with an adult child over thirty staying in their parents basement that keeps sneaking in friends from the bar? It would be nice to get other perspectives on things to do. We've given so many warnings that we're not getting anywhere. But the next step...is going to cause a fight. he may even get violent (?) (In the past there have been times growing up but not recently where he'd sometimes gotten violent but not often.)

I have inner conflicts with this in terms of having this person kicked out. And growing up I'd been the oldest and had to act like a second parent sometimes. Something must be done to protect my parents and the other people living in the house. We don't feel safe living here with this happening. My brother keeps waiting until other people in the house go to sleep and then around 2 AM in the morning bringing friends over to party. But more than that they are people from the bar, and up to know good that we know about because we keep smelling cigarette smoke come up through the floor during the night. And other people in the house have respiratory issues. We also know there is a lot of alcohol consumption, and homemade ...cigarettes/smudge pots to get high on sometimes. One of those recently involved propane tanks it seems, probably because propane doesn't smell as much during the night and he's been studying up on how to not get caught.

This has been an endless cycle of repeated warnings and no stop over the last 3 years. It would be also be tiring to write out everything that's happened. If anything the attitude is you can't tell me what to do.

I feel that it may be necessary to have my parents evict my brother. But I could use advise on this from others on addressing action steps and how to feel right before God in doing so. Then also its a problem that my parents are too soft and its hard to convince them of doing the right thing on even minor things but also including this. It's like I can never turn my back on my parents without something happening between this brother and another brother that we have.

From a gospel perspective how do other church members see this situation? I don't think that turning the other cheek is working. And it worries me that we're all asleep with no defense and a bunch of people we don't know are coming into our house at night. We had thought he had stopped but I knew he would start again when their guard was down and sure enough it did start again. But of course its hard to prove and our dad who lives with his mom keeps asking for proof when we complain that we need him to do something about it. And this person is very, very clever at having good excuses to disarm my parents and sneaky about hiding things. I can see that they are clever excuses but this causes parents to think they are suppose to buy every excuse just because people at church say 'don't judge anyone, no matter what!'

I don't want this to be like me losing blessings from not being giving to others either but I don't see how I can keep letting it happen. So I hope to feel inspiration that I won't lose blessings if I have to have my brother evicted. I was thinking of the story of the parable with the debtors where one guy is forgiven but then loses it when he was asked to forgive the people owing debts to him. But there's also the story of Nephi being urged by the Spirit that if he didn't stop Laban and get the plates his posterity wouldn't have the gospel either. And clear inspiration to Nephi also when he could no longer live with his brothers. Regardless of inspiration I'm having a lot of trouble with the idea that I feel like I can't let go having other people being snuck in our parents house that are up to no good. it seems like you could come up with excuses to turn the other cheek easily or for any other thing you want to accept an excuse for, but I really can't stand the idea of my brother sneaking bar junkies (and I know they are) into mom's house when she's innocently asleep and naive thinking he can do no harm. And I'm here to.

Without going into it, me leaving them to fend for themselves won't work either for a lot of reasons.

[Seek the Truth]

Kick 'em out, if there is any hint of potential violence involve the police, let them know the police will be involved.

There are no other options.

[Crackers]

You know it has to be done. Wait till he leaves at night and change the locks. Seriously. You can't allow that behavior to continue, and he clearly won't make any changes until it is forced upon him. And start recording his behavior (video, audio, written, the more the better). But kick him out first.

[Serragon]

First.. There is no such thing as an adult child. There are either adults or children.

Second, the fact that you wrote so much on this subject in an agonizing way is indicative as to why this is happening. They do not respect you or anyone else involved.

Do what needs to be done. They have chosen their path. Be there for them if they decide to change it back.

[shadow]

The problem is that it's not your house. There's a reason why the Lord basically said to move out once an adult. If your Mom needs you there then think about having your Mom tell your brother that it's your home and her home but not his home. In most cases it isn't healthy for adult offspring to continue to live with their parents, case in point.

I've seen it successfully work when parents have strict house rules for their adult children where the children finally get sick of it and move out. What 30+ yr old wants a 10:30 curfew and a chore chart??

[Elizabeth]

Gary, Generations of family can and do happily live in the same residence. That is not the problem. "Chores" are still awaiting and sleep is needed where ever one lives. The problem here is the rebellious brother.

The problem is that it's not your house. There's a reason why the Lord basically said to move out once an adult. If your Mom needs you there then think about having your Mom tell your brother that it's your home and her home but not his home. In most cases it isn't healthy for adult offspring to continue to live with their parents, case in point.

I've seen it successfully work when parents have strict house rules for their adult children where the children finally get sick of it and move out. What 30+ yr old wants a 10:30 curfew and a chore chart??

[shadow]

Gary, Generations of family can and do happily live in the same residence. That is not the problem. "Chores" are still awaiting and sleep is needed where ever one lives. The problem here is the rebellious brother.

The problem is that it's not your house. There's a reason why the Lord basically said to move out once an adult. If your Mom needs you there then think about having your Mom tell your brother that it's your home and her home but not his home. In most cases it isn't healthy for adult offspring to continue to live with their parents, case in point.

I've seen it successfully work when parents have strict house rules for their adult children where the children finally get sick of it and move out. What 30+ yr old wants a 10:30 curfew and a chore chart??

Yes, the rebellious brother that needs to go.

[brianj]

We just had a general conference. In the Sunday afternoon session Elder Stanley G Ellis gave a talk that applies perfectly here.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... 1?lang=eng

Listen to this with your parents. Especially the part from 5:45 to 6:50. But, if at all possible, listen to the whole thing.

[markharr]

Some people have to hit rock bottom before they realize that they are in a hole and we delay their spiritual growth and recovery by not allowing them to hit rock bottom.

It may be that you just need to change the locks and be prepared to call the police if he comes back and begins destroying property or getting violent. you may even have to watch as he goes to jail or faces other consequences but those consequences are important to his spiritual growth. When he comes back to you with a penitent heart and the spirit tells you that the time is right you should embrace him with open arms.

Listen to the spirit. That is your guide. Don't intervene if the spirit tells you it isn't time to intervene yet.

[JohnnyL]

"I've seen it successfully work when parents have strict house rules for their adult children where the children finally get sick of it and move out. What 30+ yr old wants a 10:30 curfew and a chore chart??"
And there's an answer to the situation--we lock the doors (and jam them!) at 10:30pm, and we do chores to stay in the house.
Many parents charge rent if you stay there--less expensive in desperate situations, but rent or extra chores.

You could install a door between the basement and first floor that locks (and he doesn't have that key).

You could put up spy video cameras in the basement, get the evidence that dad wants to see. Not that he would necessarily believe it, though--no parent wants to believe that their loved child...

[captainfearnot]

There is no such thing as an adult child. There are either adults or children.

One of the definitions of "child" is a son or a daughter of any age.

[Serragon]

There is no such thing as an adult child. There are either adults or children.

One of the definitions of "child" is a son or a daughter of any age.

You are correct. I apologize for the mistake and appreciate the correction.

[Michelle]

Been there. Done that.

We moved in after she and my dad divorced, at her request, to help pay bills and "turn the house back into a home where people felt safe." She asked many times and we didn't really want to, but we agreed if she would agree to certain rules.

I had a frank discussion with my mother where the boundaries should be when all was calm and he was not present. We made clear the police would be called if he stepped outside of those boundaries. That we would move out if she did not kick him out when these things happened.

She would never believe me when I told her that his girlfriend lived there (seriously, she took a shower everyday, her clothes were in his closet and she never left at night.) She wouldn't listen when I would say he was high right then and it was time to address the issue. One afternoon he and his friends were splitting up drugs, they dropped some pills on the stairs and didn't realize it. I called the cops. The cops came and walked my mom through the truth: his girlfriends clothes in the closet mean she lives there, the safe in the basement she doesn't have a key to has drugs in it, as evidence by the pill found outside of it on the floor (if it has a number on it, a pharmacy can tell you what the pill is, and on and on.) He had to gently, but firmly, tell her that he saw this often. It is hard to believe about your kids. It is time to kick him out both to help him and to protect herself.

She kept wringing her hands and saying "we suspected, but never had proof." Not true, just her trying to protect herself, I guess.

The officer asked where he was and went and visited him at work. (He had to go to court and ended up with a fine of some sort. )My brother called and yelled at her, she said "It wasn't me it was your sister!" (BTW, I am fine taking responsibility. He is no dummy, we all know where this may lead including jail and/or and overdose and death. How much love does it show to worry more about if someone likes you than if they are destroying their life and may die? I recommended that she read the story of Eli the prophet and his sons from the Old Testament. Parent are responsible if they refuse to correct their children. Both will suffer the consequences if they don't.)

My mom refused to kick him out.

He was threatening. We left before dinner, and moved the next day.

He still doesn't talk to me (it has been a few years) but he did within a short time move out because he was angry about the event. Not because she did anything. He made more poor choices. He felt the consequences. Went back to school, got a degree, got married, got a good job.

Not at all active at church, but that first phone call to the cops put him on a path to experiencing his consequence and it helped him in the long run.

We ended up not going to my mom's house for years. We would invite her to our house, but we made it clear that we loved her, but her house was not a safe place and we wouldn't bring our kids there. She hated it, but she also had some growing up to do.

Long story short: no regrets. Listen to the Spirit, but be willing to choose the harder right over the easier wrong.

[brianj]

"She kept wringing her hands and saying "we suspected, but never had proof." Not true, just her trying to protect herself, I guess."

It very well could be true. Denial is very powerful for a lot of people. When she had the cop pointing out the obvious she mentally and emotionally had to concede there were suspicions, her way of denying you had told her exactly what the officer was telling her.

At least that's how I interpret behavior I have seen many times.

[farmerchick]

So I've actually been on both sides of this. Moved home after a divorce with my three small children and I've had adult children move in with me. I can tell you both experiences were full of trauma. In hindsight, I wish my parents had never let me home because it altered the my path and caused me to lose out on valuable lessons I could have learned faster in my life. I was not living the gospel at the time and was making crazy decisions. My parents tried to help me with expenses and child care while I worked, but for all their efforts I felt resentful and my siblings and parents were very resentful as well. This has caused problems with my siblings and parents to this day even though it's been now almost thirty years ago. My daughter moved home for awhile in 2013. She had been living a life of catastrophe for several years prior. I explained to her this was a place of refuge from her storm and not to bring the storm home. It lasted a couple months but ended on a sour note as she inevitably brought home the storm. We had sobriety rules, stipulated she had to finish her associates degree at the local college and she had to get a job. She enrolled in college and finished up her last little bit of school, started staying out for days and of course she wasn't sober. So she ended up meeting a guy and moving out with him. She is a beautiful intelligent girl, but giving her a soft place to land only hindered the consequences of her actions. Today, she is still lost but she has a job and we have a decent relationship, of course she been through a few live in boyfriends. She has tried to get sober a few times and recently she has expressed a desire to finish her education. Her values are slowly changing as she nears 30. You can't fix anyone. You can't tell other adults how to feel or act. Being an enabler is not what I intended to be for her but that's basically what happened. Your situation as you describe it is a "no win" situation. If I were you, I would extricate myself from the situation and let the chips fall where they may. Nothing can compensate for consequences well learned. Sometimes the education of hard knocks is the most effective way for some of us to learn.

[andrewkeola]

There should have been a contract (verbal if not written) that stipulates certain rules and conditions along with penalties pertaining to the use of the home. If there is no contract then one should be created. Enforcing this contract is necessary otherwise it has no effect. Adults should be treated as adults. There are other ways to help your family member.

[Robin Hood]

Yep... kick 'em out.
That's all there is to it.

[Juliet]

Your parents are not stupid. They know what your brother is up to. They are screwing you. They don't care about you or your safety. Do not save your parents just try to get out of the house. Don't live there in that toxic environment. I'm really sorry but your parents are not good people and they are not stupid either. I am sorry you have had to put up with this, but the only thing you can control is yourself. So get yourself out of that toxic environment. Even Jesus can't change people. You have to accept the loss. Remember the line from Moana, the song 'Your Welcome' that says, "and don't ya know that humans never change". Your family isn't going to change. Remember, most people are going to remain in the telestial kingdom. If you want something better you have to leave your family in the kingdom they have chosen and move to higher ground.

Your family isn't changing. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to let someone destroy you and your health and peace of mind. If someone slaps you, turn the cheek and then get the heck out of that relationship. No need to fight back or try to change them, just get away from there. Even God doesn't allow drunkards in His house.

Forgiveness does not mean leniency. True love is not lenient. True love demands adherence to righteous principles. You let demons into heaven and then heaven becomes hell.

Love them all you want, but if you want better you'll have to leave them behind. It is the best favor you can do because you will be an example and then other family members can follow.

D&C 76: 109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;