Mormonism you be the judge.

[DEEPER storm]

- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.

- God lives on a giant crystal ball. See D&C 130:6-8.

- God's home planet orbits a star named "Kolob." See Abraham 3:3

- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.

- The Sun "borrows it's light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash.. which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.. and receives light from the revolutions of Kolob." This quote comes directly from the Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 5. Also see: http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-defined.htm

This Mormon site describes correlation between the North Star and Kolob, based on the fact that the big dipper is on the SLC temple, etc: http://www.ldswomenofgod.com/?p=1800

- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"

- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" kingdoms (planets). See D&C 130:9

- God's home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"

- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.

- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163

- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perdition that deny His spirit. This includes all Ex-Mormons. See "The Creation," page 146 and D&C 101:90-91

- The light of Christ is the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See D&C 88:7. (The "light" refered to may very well be literal, as well as figurative and symbolic, speaking about Christ's influence.)

- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.

mormon-scienceCreation

- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 350-352.

- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5, 6:51 and Endowment Ceremony.

- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, all of us helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, we created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. See Abraham 3:22-24, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 74-75.

- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradicts the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third day (creation of life, vegetation and seeds) and fourth day (creation of light, moon and stars) of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, whereas Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).

- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).

- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference. Taught by LDS Church apostle during stake fireside, but still need reference.

Extra-Terrestrials

- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article "People on Other Worlds" April 1971.

- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Pearl of Great Price, but UFO connection made by LDS Church Seminary teacher. Still need reference.

- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/enoch.htm for many scriptural and Joseph Smith prophetic references.

- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See D&C 110:11 and 133:26.

- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. See Moses 7:36

- God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Common teaching from LDS Church Seminary teachers, but still need reference.

- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Christ's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth. See November 1985 Ensign "Is Jesus Christ the Savior of all the worlds God created or just ours?"

- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Supposedly came from early church conference address by church apostle, but still need reference.

- God created all the planets in our solar system with the explicit "law" to support human life. The other planets in our solar system are already populated or are able to support human life. See "The Essential Orson Pratt, p.373"

- Lucifer only did to Adam and Eve "the same thing which has been done in "OTHER WORLDS," according to the temple endowment. This shows Mormon doctrine embraces the idea of life on other planets.

- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919

Mormon Physics

- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See D&C 131:7.

- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.

- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See D&C 61:13-19

- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Begotten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is supposedly from ther church's official publication "Jesus the Christ" but is often taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 15:232

Other Dimensions

- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.


- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-existence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spiritual awareness. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.

- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.

- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. Mormon folklore, source reference needed.

Time and Time Travel

- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Very common Mormon belief, source reference needed.

- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5

- God lives by "celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit" See Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 1.

- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See Abraham 5:13

- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See D&C 130:10-11

- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31

- A righteous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the D&C 122:9.

- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, pp. 64, 65).

- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham. Also see D&C 101:32-34.

- The earth's lifetime is divided into "dispensations" of time. The correct name for our current dispensation of time is "Adam-ondi-Ahman" which Joseph Smith explained to mean "The place or land of God where Adam dwelt." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 19-20)

Geology

- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existence is 7,000 years. See D&C 77:6

- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are righteous enough. This was preached from the pulpit at the Tabernacle by the Prophet of the Church. See Journal of Discourses 1:264.

- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- Carbon dating is phony because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)

- Prophet preaches from the Tabernacle pulpit in General Conference that "Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head, or the wheat in the field.." See JoD 1:209.

Mormon Biology

- Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall. Blood is the life of the mortal body." After Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, blood became "the life-giving fluid in Adam's body, and was inherited by his posterity. Blood was not only the life of the mortal body, but also contained in it the seeds of death which bring the mortal body to its end. Previously the life force in Adam's body, which is likewise the sustaining power in every immortal body, was the spirit." - Joseph Fielding Smith, Man: His Origin and Destiny (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954), pp. 362, 376-77.

- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more pure blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- Adam did not have a navel, Eve did. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- Mormonism directly explains the creation of at least one race by God. Mormon scripture taught that Cain was so evil, God cursed him and his lineage with black skin, creating the African race. See Moses 7:22. Mormon Doctrine explains: "Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." Mormon Doctrine, Page 102.

- When Native Americans become Mormons, their skin turns white. The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught the principle of this process in a General Conference address. He stated how the "Indians are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation... These young [Indian] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." LDS General Conference, October 1960, Spencer W. Kimball, (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). Also see the original Mormon prophesy of this effect in 2 Nephi 30:6.

- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).

- All races, including Blacks, Asians, Indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white Caucasians. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.

- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon, Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17

- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. See LDS Church News Archives, Saturday, January 15, 2000, "Resurrection is a priesthood ordinance. 'As to how the dead are raised, we know that it is by the power of Jesus Christ because He holds the keys of death, hell, and resurrection,' said Brother Matthews. '. . . President Brigham Young and Elder Erastus Snow taught that the resurrection will be conducted much as other things are done in the kingdom, by those in authority and by delegation.'"

- Resurrected bodies do not have blood but instead rely on the spirit to stay alive. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Our Father in heaven and our Savior and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body is quickened by blood... . Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creations." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 76-77).

[Silver Pie]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[brianj]

1) Wrong. In Abraham 3 we learn a few words in the language of the Lord, not the "correct name." The correct name in English is sun.
2) Wrong. The planet on which God lives is described as a great Urim and Thummim, not as a crystal ball.
3) Wrong. Kolob is the star nearest God but we don't have reason to believe the laws of gravity we know apply in the Celestial Kingdom.


Three strikes and I see no need to continue.

[Michelle]

I question a lot of the points credited to Institute teachers without references.

[mes5464]

- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.

Where Is the Postmortal Spirit World?
Latter-day prophets have said that the spirits of those who have died are not far from us. President Ezra Taft Benson said: “Sometimes the veil between this life and the life beyond becomes very thin. Our loved ones who have passed on are not far from us” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1971, 18; or Ensign, June 1971, 33). President Brigham Young taught that the postmortal spirit world is on the earth, around us (see Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 279).

[oneClimbs]

I question a lot of the points credited to Institute teachers without references.

Haha, yes, and many of the conclusions drawn from certain statements. Note to Internet: institute/seminary teachers, and missionaries are NOT valid sources for doctrine. Other items draw conclusions that are problematic; here's one example:

"God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See D&C 61:13-19"

God didn't just flat out "curse water" and if you actually read the verses it says this: "the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart." So this cursing is a future event, not just a blanket cursing of all water.

D&C 61 also says, "I, the Lord, have decreed, and the destroyer rideth upon the face thereof, and I revoke not the decree." The OP says this is Satan but I disagree. I think this is probably referencing "the destroying angel" mentioned in other scripture; (namely the angel that slew the first born of the Egyptians and an army that was coming against Jerusalem during Hezikiah's reign) see: Doctrine and Covenants 89:21, 1 Chronicles 21:15, 2 Samuel 24:16, Genesis 19:14-15.

I could go down the list and detail all the problematic assumptions I've seen but frankly I lack the interest.

[Michelle]

I question a lot of the points credited to Institute teachers without references.

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

[James-T-Prout]

The earth will one day become a Celestial Kingdom where God the Father will come and dwell.

Our Father can only reside where the planet has been celestialized to his level.

The celestial city and surroundings of the celestialized Earth, after the Millennium, have been seen by John the Revelator in the final chapters of his work.

I wrote about that briefly in my book.

There will be a time when your body are celestial, and you must live on a Celestial Earth as well. Brigham Young did truly talk of stars/the sun being a Celestial Kingdom.

[captainfearnot]

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

This list was authored in 2004 by an ex-Mormon who goes by the handle "Deconstructor," and used to host the website www.i4m.com. It appears to have gone offline earlier this year, but you can still access it via the WayBack Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170321094 ... cience.htm

He has compiled several such lists. They are not intended to be faith promoting.

[EmmaLee]

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

This list was authored in 2004 by an ex-Mormon who goes by the handle "Deconstructor," and used to host the website www.i4m.com. It appears to have gone offline earlier this year, but you can still access it via the WayBack Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170321094 ... cience.htm

He has compiled several such lists. They are not intended to be faith promoting.

Also, 'DEEPER storm' is obviously the previously banned poster, 'deep water'.

[Michelle]

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

This list was authored in 2004 by an ex-Mormon who goes by the handle "Deconstructor," and used to host the website www.i4m.com. It appears to have gone offline earlier this year, but you can still access it via the WayBack Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170321094 ... cience.htm

He has compiled several such lists. They are not intended to be faith promoting.

Thanks, didn't know that. I just didn't want to be disrespectful if someone was trying to do good, but confused.

[oneClimbs]

It doesn't bother me if people question or have criticisms, I think we all have both. My eys just glaze over when there are flawed sources or flawed premises. Some people many not have answers to these questions though so it's valid to post them here and ask. My two cents is that this list has some valid quotes mixed with some really bad references and when you are quoting seminary teachers and 19 year old missionaries it makes it hard to take seriously, for me at least.

[LDS Physician]

Our Father can only reside where the planet has been celestialized to his level.

I think as an omnipotent being, Our Father has no limits. If he wishes to reside on a planet that has yet to be celestialized to his level, then he can.

[Tbone]

Our Father can only reside where the planet has been celestialized to his level.

I think as an omnipotent being, Our Father has no limits. If he wishes to reside on a planet that has yet to be celestialized to his level, then he can.

This seems correct. The limits are on us and probably for our protection and happiness. D&C 88:22 says:

He who is not a able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

It doesn't say the other way around.

There's an old evangelical preacher named Bob Jones who had some type of NDE or OBE and was taken to the spirit world. Interestingly, he was shown the three degrees of glory. I don't believe he used terms like kingdom or Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, but he did say that he was extremely uncomfortable in the highest degree of glory because essentially the light was far too bright for him to endure. He was only happy in the lowest kingdom of glory. What was interesting is that several years after he claimed to have this vision, he got into trouble in his church for certain sexual improprieties, so maybe that was why he only felt comfortable there and still had to work some issues out. Anyway, his videos are on Youtube if you are interested. I don't know if it is true or not and it's not completely consistent with D&C 76, but I found the point mentioned above very interesting.

But I wonder if He "can't" because of his love for us and his other creations. In this fallen world, could the living beings and other matter even endure his full presence until they themselves are celestialized?

[AI2.0]

- God says the correct name for our Sun is "Shinehah," which is the name He gave it. Also, the correct name of the moon is "Olea." See Abraham 3:13.

- God lives on a giant crystal ball. See D&C 130:6-8.It's a urim and thummim.

- God's home planet orbits a star named "Kolob." See Abraham 3:3

- Kolob is "the great governing star of our universe" and "the residence of God." See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Church History and Modern Revelation" Volume 3, Page 60.So what?

- The Sun "borrows it's light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash.. which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars.. and receives light from the revolutions of Kolob." This quote comes directly from the Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 5. Also see: http://nowscape.com/mormon/kolob-defined.htm

This Mormon site describes correlation between the North Star and Kolob, based on the fact that the big dipper is on the SLC temple, etc: http://www.ldswomenofgod.com/?p=1800What 'mormon site?'

- The Sun is a celestialized world, where its inhabitants are perfected. The Prophet Brigham Young taught in General Conference: "So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain. It was made to give light to those who dwell upon it, and to other planets; and so will this earth when it is celestialized." See Journal of Discourses, 13:271. Also see Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 1 Page 88: "Earth to be Celestialized Sun"So what? Who cares if some liked to share their thougths on this?

- The Earth will undergo a perfection after the millenium and become a huge seer stone of glass. People living on the Earth after this transformation will be able to look into the Earth and see things happening on "inferior" kingdoms (planets). See D&C 130:9

- God's home planet, Kolob, is at the center of our Galaxy, which all other stars rotate around. See Clark, J. Reuben Jr., "Behold the Lamb of God," page 46, "Kolob, the Governor"

- The Earth actually has a spirit, just like we do. It had to be baptized (the flood) to fulfill all righteousness, just like us. It will also have to receive the baptism of fire (at the second coming of Christ) in order to receive its exaltation and become a celestialized world. See Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith's "Doctrines of Salvation," Volume 1, pages 73-74, page 87 "Celestial Destiny of the Earth." See also Moses Chapter 7:48-49, 56 where the Earth's spirit speaks with Enoch.

- When Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden, the Earth was closely orbiting Kolob, like God's home planet. But when Adam and Eve fell, so did the Earth and it was hurled across the cosmos and placed in orbit around our sun in this planetary system. After the Millenium, the Earth will return to its rightful place near God, orbiting Kolob. See Church Ensign, March 1997, Page 16 "The Book of Abraham: A Most Remarkable Book," and Journal of Discourses, 17:143 and Journal of Discourses 7:163

- Black Holes are "outer darkness" where God will cast those sons of perdition that deny His spirit. This includes all Ex-Mormons. See "The Creation," page 146 and D&C 101:90-91Where are black holes mentioned in the scriptures?

- The light of Christ is the light coming from the Sun and the Moon. See D&C 88:7. (The "light" refered to may very well be literal, as well as figurative and symbolic, speaking about Christ's influence.)So what?

- Kolob is the North Star, according to Joseph Smith. Taught by LDS Church Institute Instructor, but still need reference.No reference

mormon-scienceCreation

- Joseph Smith taught that the Earth was created like a cake, from ingredients of different ages. Just like a cake was made from wheat that is a year old, eggs from a few days and milk fresh this morning from the cow, so too, the Earth is made from parts of different ages. See Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 350-352.

- God created everything twice, just like Plato said. First there was a spiritual creation, and then there was a physical creation. See Moses 3:5, 6:51 and Endowment Ceremony.Doesn't Genesis also teach this?

- God did not create the physical Earth Himself. Actually, all of us helped out. Under the direction of Jesus and Adam, we created the Earth. Some of us created trees, others created rocks and still others created animals, based on God's blueprints. See Abraham 3:22-24, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pages 74-75.

- God can't get his story straight about which order he created the Earth. The order of the days of creation in Moses contradicts the order given in the Temple Endowment, which are both inspired truth. The third day (creation of life, vegetation and seeds) and fourth day (creation of light, moon and stars) of creation are switched in the temple ceremony, whereas Moses matches the order of Genesis. See Moses 2:9-19 and Temple Ceremony (all versions).Actually, it all makes sense, when you aren't twisting things up to make them sound contradictory.

- God created the Earth first, then He created the Sun, Moon and stars and the rest of the universe. On the first day of creation God creates the earth (see Moses 2:2-5). On the second day, God creates earth's oceans and the atmosphere (see Moses 2:6-8). On the third day, God separates the land from the water and creates vegetation, fruits and trees (see Moses 2:9-13). Finally, on the fourth day, God creates the Sun, Moon and stars (see Moses 2:14-19).

- Mars and Venus have dry rivers that match perfectly with rivers on Earth, proving that parts of all three were "organized" from parts of a same old planet. Scientists say the moon was formed out of the Earth, why not the other planets too? Still need reference. Taught by LDS Church apostle during stake fireside, but still need reference.Which apostle? When. No reference, NOT LDS doctinre.

Extra-Terrestrials

- There are human beings on many other planets that look just like us because they too, are in the image of God. See New Era Article "People on Other Worlds" April 1971.

- UFOs are from the City of Enoch, that was raised to heaven because the citizens attained perfection. City of Enoch story is in the Pearl of Great Price, but UFO connection made by LDS Church Seminary teacher. Still need reference.NOT LDS doctrine

- Joseph Smith taught that the Ten Lost Tribes had gone to the North Pole, as it used to be warm, but God divided the Earth in two and they wound up between Texas and Florida. Then God scooped them up, leaving a big hole called the Gulf of Mexico. And these millions of Hebrews are today on this island floating around in the solar system, but we can't see them because God has them flying at an angle where the telescopes can't pick them up. But one day the island will crash back into the Gulf and the earth will reel to and fro like a drunken man. See http://www.code-co.com/rcf/mhistdoc/enoch.htm for many scriptural and Joseph Smith prophetic references.twisted up, NOt LDS doctinre.

- UFOs are from the lost ten tribes, which live underneath the north pole. As explained in the Doctrine and Covenants, these tribes will return by flight from the north in the Last Days. See D&C 110:11 and 133:26.UFO's are never mentioned in LDS doctrines and teachings. False interpretation

- Earth is the most evil of all of God's worlds in the Universe. See Moses 7:36 the term is 'so great wickedness', not 'evil'. There is a difference actually in the use of the terms.

- God sent Christ here because it was the only world that was wicked enough to kill Jesus. Common teaching from LDS Church Seminary teachers, but still need reference.

- All of the other planets in the universe with God's children have prophets who preach to them about Christ's life, death and resurrection on Earth. Just as our prophets tell us that other worlds have human life on them, so to, true prophets on other worlds teach the life of Christ as he lived it on this Earth. See November 1985 Ensign "Is Jesus Christ the Savior of all the worlds God created or just ours?"

- Mars is populated by beings who, like us, were created in the image of God, so they look like us. Except they are waiting to hear about the Gospel, which we will preach to them during the millenium. Supposedly came from early church conference address by church apostle, but still need reference.Not lDS doctrine and you have no reference for this crap.

- God created all the planets in our solar system with the explicit "law" to support human life. The other planets in our solar system are already populated or are able to support human life. See "The Essential Orson Pratt, p.373"I don't have the book to look this up, but so what?
Orson Pratt was free to speculate all he wanted to . NOT LDS doctinre.

- Lucifer only did to Adam and Eve "the same thing which has been done in "OTHER WORLDS," according to the temple endowment. This shows Mormon doctrine embraces the idea of life on other planets.Yes, we do. So what? We're not talking about life on VEnus or Pluto.
I think many other non-LDS believe there is other life in the Universe.

- "Thus the Lord has given us the information regarding his creations, and how he has made many earths, for there never was a beginning, never was a time when man did not exist somewhere in the universe, and when the time came for this earth to be peopled the Lord, our God, transplanted upon it from some other earth, the life which is found here." Improvement Era, Vol 23:389-393; Joseph Fielding Smith; "The Origin and Destiny of Man"; 1919He wasn't the prophet. He really enjoyed giving his own views on scriputres. It's called speculation and he was allowed t odo it.

Mormon Physics

- All spirit is matter, just "more fine or pure" form of matter which we cannot measure. See D&C 131:7.

- The Mormon God cannot destroy or create matter, he can only "reorganize" it. So the Solar System was formed from other previous creations. See Temple Endowment, The Contributor, Vol. 4, p. 257, and Joseph Smith As Scientist, p. 14.
It's not the 'mormon god', we consider him THE GOD and he works by the laws of our universe. "The first law of thermodynamics doesn't actually specify that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, but instead that the total amount of energy in a closed system cannot be created nor destroyed (though it can be changed from one form to another)".

- God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See D&C 61:13-19ead the actual scripture. He's referring to the dangers that are inherent in land and sea.

- All matter in the universe chooses to obey God's law. If God had not sacrificed his Only Begotten Son to fulfill the atonement and satisfy the law, then matter would not have continued to respect God and matter would not have continued to obey Him. This is supposedly from ther church's official publication "Jesus the Christ" but is often taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.If you still need a reference, we can ignore this.

- Light is the sole medium which God has for governing the universe. See Journal of Discourses, Volume 15:232What's wrong with this statment? Makes sense since it is necessary for life.

Other Dimensions

- The Earth is the spirit world, where the billions of deceased spirits now live. In fact, there are spirits all around us right now, yet we cannot see them and they cannot see us, thanks to "the veil." [This is so much like a few Star Trek episodes!] Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.Institute teachers are not a good source, but I'll help you out. This is a true belief of LDS. We believe that the spirit world is here, there are spirits around us, more refined matter, so we do not see them. And, frankly, lots of other people believe this--they believe in ghosts, don't they?


- When babies are born, "the veil" is still very thin and as newborns they can see spirits, remember the "pre-existence" and still hear God directly. It's only later after months trapped in a physical body that "the veil" begins to close over their spiritual awareness. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.This is conjecture and not doctrine. Also it's based on anecdotal evidence and you've twisted it by throwing in some things like 'after months trapped in a phyiscal body'...never heard that.

- Just before people die, "the veil" once again lifts and they start to see again all the spirits and angels all around us. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors - still need reference.This is anectdotal and believed by non-lds people as well. It's conjecture and not doctrine.

- The Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake Temple actually contains a portal to the celestial realm at Kolob. Mormon folklore, source reference needed.This is garbage. Not anything LDS teach or believe, probably got this idea from Visions of Glory book (Not LDS doctrine), though this is twisted.

Time and Time Travel

- God travels much faster than the speed of light. God travels at the "speed of thought." Very common Mormon belief, source reference needed.I'm pretty sure God has to travel faster than the speed of light, because it's too slow.This is logic.

- A day for God is like a thousand years on Earth. This is because it takes a thousand Earth years for God's home planet Kolob to rotate around once on its axis. See Abraham 3:4-5What's the problem?

- God lives by "celestial time, which celestial time signifies one day to a cubit" See Book of Abraham, Facsimile Number 2, Explanation for Figure 1.

- Adam and Eve living in the Garden of Eden were "subject to Kolob Time." See Abraham 5:13

- Seer stones allow us to see past, present and future events at any location. All of those that make it to the Celestial Kingdom will have their own seer stone, to review any moment or location in the universe. See D&C 130:10-11John The Revelator said we'd all be given a white stone.

- If it wasn't for "Cherubum and a Flaming Sword" in front of the tree of life, Adam and Eve would have lived "forever" after eating the forbidden fruit. See Alma 12:21, 42:2-3 and Moses 4:31

- A righteous man's "time" on this Earth is not "cut short," according to the D&C 122:9.

- Christ's atonement was eternal, reached back in time and retro-actively saved the faithful who lived and died before the event occurred, yet they were told to wait for his coming in order to be saved. (Mormon Doctrine, 2nd ed., Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, pp. 64, 65).

- God showed his temporal prophets "everything from the beginning to the end of time", as accounts record in the Pearl of Great Price and the Book of Mormon. See stories of Nephi, Moses and Abraham. Also see D&C 101:32-34.

- The earth's lifetime is divided into "dispensations" of time. The correct name for our current dispensation of time is "Adam-ondi-Ahman" which Joseph Smith explained to mean "The place or land of God where Adam dwelt." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, p. 19-20)

Geology

- Right from the scriptures, the Earth's total temporal existence is 7,000 years. See D&C 77:6Scriptures are to be read figuratively and literally, the church takes no stand on this.

- There's more gold and mineral riches in Utah than the rest of the world combined. It's hidden from you because of a lack of faith. There's no need to go to California to pan for Gold, because God will reveal these riches to you when you are righteous enough. This was preached from the pulpit at the Tabernacle by the Prophet of the Church. See Journal of Discourses 1:264.So what? We've got plenty of valuable minerals in our soil. Look it up.

- Fossilized dinosaur bones are from dinosaurs that lived on other worlds that were destroyed to create the Earth. They were living creatures, but not from this Earth. (See Creation above) Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.This is speculation, not doctrine.

- Carbon dating is phony because God has altered the Earth so many times with processes we can't understand or measure. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.No reference and not LDS doctrine. I expect most LDS believe carbon dating.

- The Garden of Eden was in Missouri. Noah was taken to the Old World by the Flood. This teaching was given by Joseph Smith and is still accepted as true doctrine. Given this teaching, Mormons have to accept the flood as a global phenomenon. (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, "Adam-Ondi-Ahman" p. 19-20)So what?

- Prophet preaches from the Tabernacle pulpit in General Conference that "Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head, or the wheat in the field.." See JoD 1:209.Who cares? We believe Prophets only speak for God when they are speaking for God, otherwise they often give their own thoughts.

Mormon Biology

- Adam and Eve did not have blood in their bodies in the Garden of Eden. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Adam [and, by extension, all of the animal creation] had no blood in his veins before the fall. Blood is the life of the mortal body." After Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, blood became "the life-giving fluid in Adam's body, and was inherited by his posterity. Blood was not only the life of the mortal body, but also contained in it the seeds of death which bring the mortal body to its end. Previously the life force in Adam's body, which is likewise the sustaining power in every immortal body, was the spirit." - Joseph Fielding Smith, Man: His Origin and Destiny (Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954), pp. 362, 376-77.It's his opinion, and he wasn't the Prophet when he wrote that book, he can give his own beliefs.

- Adam lived nearly 1,000 years and the prophets used to live hundreds of years because they lived the Word of Wisdom perfectly and had more pure blood in their veins. Over time, the human race has polluted blood more and more. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.No reference, it's not valid and not LDS doctrine.

- Adam did not have a navel, Eve did. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.When did they teach this one?
This has to be very old. Not LDS doctrine.

- Mormonism directly explains the creation of at least one race by God. Mormon scripture taught that Cain was so evil, God cursed him and his lineage with black skin, creating the African race. See Moses 7:22. Mormon Doctrine explains: "Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the Negroes, and those sprits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born though his lineage. He became the first mortal to be cursed as a son of perdition. As a result of his mortal birth he is assured of a tangible body of flesh and bones in eternity, a fact which will enable him to rule over Satan." Mormon Doctrine, Page 102.THis is not LDS doctrine.

- When Native Americans become Mormons, their skin turns white. The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught the principle of this process in a General Conference address. He stated how the "Indians are fast becoming a white and delightsome people." He said, "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation... These young [Indian] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." LDS General Conference, October 1960, Spencer W. Kimball, (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-3). Also see the original Mormon prophesy of this effect in 2 Nephi 30:6.This is not LDS doctrine.

- Drinking tea may tan your stomach similarly to what happens in a teapot. (Missionary teaching technique taken seriously by some).More crap based on some dumb story. Not LDS doctrine.

- All races, including Blacks, Asians, Indians etc.. will be resurrected in their perfect state as white Caucasians. Taught by LDS Church Institute instructors. Still need reference.Never heard this one and it's not LDS doctrine.

- Our Spirit bodies look exactly the same as our physical bodies, even before birth. In the book of Mormon, Christ appeared (and touched the stones) to the Brother of Jared in the BoM in his spirit form, which appeared the same as his future body would thousands of years later when he was born. See Ether 3:15-17

- Resurrection is simply a priesthood ordinance not yet revealed, but that will be revealed after the millenium. See LDS Church News Archives, Saturday, January 15, 2000, "Resurrection is a priesthood ordinance. 'As to how the dead are raised, we know that it is by the power of Jesus Christ because He holds the keys of death, hell, and resurrection,' said Brother Matthews. '. . . President Brigham Young and Elder Erastus Snow taught that the resurrection will be conducted much as other things are done in the kingdom, by those in authority and by delegation.'"THis is mixed up somewhat. There is a priesthood key for Resurrection.

- Resurrected bodies do not have blood but instead rely on the spirit to stay alive. The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith taught: "Our Father in heaven and our Savior and all those who have passed through the resurrection have physical bodies of flesh and bones, but their bodies are quickened by spirit and not by blood, hence they are spiritual bodies and not blood bodies. The immortal body is quickened by spirit, but the mortal body is quickened by blood... . Now when Adam was in the Garden of Eden, he was not subject to death. There was no blood in his body and he could have remained there forever. This is true of all other creations." (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 76-77).

More conjecture, and he was not 'the prophet' when he wrote the book. You're are falsely implying that he was prophet when he wrote these things. By the way, when he wrote those books not everyone agreed with his opinions, and they were free to do so. He wasn't writing LDS doctrine, some was conjecture and speculation.

Have you figured out that you can't use Institute and serminary teachers as authority? They are not. They can be guilty of teaching non-doctrinal things. You also have a lot of speculations that you are claiming are doctrine which they are not.

Also, do you have a problem with these things that are pretty benign? Why do you care about some of these esoteric beleifs? Is there a problem if LDS want to believe some things that you don't ?

[brianj]

Excellent job, AI.

[LDS Physician]

Our Father can only reside where the planet has been celestialized to his level.

I think as an omnipotent being, Our Father has no limits. If he wishes to reside on a planet that has yet to be celestialized to his level, then he can.

This seems correct. The limits are on us and probably for our protection and happiness. D&C 88:22 says:

He who is not a able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory.

It doesn't say the other way around.

There's an old evangelical preacher named Bob Jones who had some type of NDE or OBE and was taken to the spirit world. Interestingly, he was shown the three degrees of glory. I don't believe he used terms like kingdom or Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial, but he did say that he was extremely uncomfortable in the highest degree of glory because essentially the light was far too bright for him to endure. He was only happy in the lowest kingdom of glory. What was interesting is that several years after he claimed to have this vision, he got into trouble in his church for certain sexual improprieties, so maybe that was why he only felt comfortable there and still had to work some issues out. Anyway, his videos are on Youtube if you are interested. I don't know if it is true or not and it's not completely consistent with D&C 76, but I found the point mentioned above very interesting.

But I wonder if He "can't" because of his love for us and his other creations. In this fallen world, could the living beings and other matter even endure his full presence until they themselves are celestialized?

I don't think it says anywhere that he "can't". I just think he "won't". It is similar to people who say that man cannot see God because the man in question would perish in his glorious presence. Well, omnipotence must include the ability to tone down your own glory enough to permit mortals to not perish in your presence, don't you think?

Can you imagine being Heavenly Father: "Sure wish I could meet with my son, but I can't because he'll die if I get near him."

I don't think you can be all-powerful and at the same time have a limit to your power in this manner.

[Jesef]

Simulacrum, holographic projection, etc. So, so many ways an omnipotent being could manifest Himself/Herself without burning people up. What do you think the First Vision was? Even if Joseph was wide awake, which some of the language indicated OBE, all the "images" could have just been electrical signals sent directly into his brain. Obviously there wasn't a forest fire afterwards.

[LDS Physician]

Simulacrum, holographic projection, etc. So, so many ways an omnipotent being could manifest Himself/Herself without burning people up. What do you think the First Vision was? Even if Joseph was wide awake, which some of the language indicated OBE, all the "images" could have just been electrical signals sent directly into his brain. Obviously there wasn't a forest fire afterwards.

True that, or perhaps The Father and The Son can go anywhere they please and choose not to burn up their creations, children, etc. at their whim. Interesting to think about!

[cathyk]

It is similar to people who say that man cannot see God because the man in question would perish in his glorious presence. Well, omnipotence must include the ability to tone down your own glory enough to permit mortals to not perish in your presence, don't you think?

I don't believe it involves him "toning down" his glory, but the individual being strengthened to be able to bear it. And one (perhaps easier) way is to be outside the physical body at the time.

"But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him."

In Return From Tomorrow, George Ritchie (not LDS) had a near death experience, and he saw Christ. He said:

"I stared in astonishment as the brightness increased, coming from nowhere, seeing to shine everywhere at once. All the light bulbs in the ward could not give off that much light. All the light bulbs in the world could not! And right in the middle of my amazement came a prosaic thought, probably born of some biology lecture back at the university: I'm glad I don't have physical eyes at the this moment. This light would destroy the retina in a tenth of a second.

"No, I corrected myself, not the light

"He.

"He would be too bright to look at. For now, I saw that it was not light but a Man who had entered the room, or rather, a Man made out of light, though this seemed no more possible to my mind than the incredible intensity of the brightness that made up his form.

"The instant I perceived Him, a command formed itself in my mind. 'Stand up!' The words came from inside me, yet they had an authority my mere thoughts had never had. I got to my feet, and as I did came the stupendous certainty: 'You are in the presence of the Son of God.'"

Also, remember when Joseph Smith saw the first vision. Before that, he was praying to God, Satan attacked him, he sunk down and had to exert all of his strength to cry out to God. Well, when he got back up, and saw God, perhaps it was his spirit that saw God.

And obviously, maybe it wasn't that, and transfiguration could be some other process. But, either way, it seems obvious that God doesn't "tone down" his glory, but individuals are in a state that they are able to bear it.

[Silver Pie]

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

This list was authored in 2004 by an ex-Mormon who goes by the handle "Deconstructor," and used to host the website www.i4m.com. It appears to have gone offline earlier this year, but you can still access it via the WayBack Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170321094 ... cience.htm

He has compiled several such lists. They are not intended to be faith promoting.

I didn't realize this. I didn't read the list in detail, though. I began to read it, then scanned because the post is far, far too long for me to read on a computer. I just supposed it was trying to be faith-promoting.

AI2.0, kudos for having the ability to go through that post piece by piece.

[brianj]

1) Wrong. In Abraham 3 we learn a few words in the language of the Lord, not the "correct name." The correct name in English is sun.
we don't have reason to believe the laws of gravity we know apply in the Celestial Kingdom.

This is one of the most absurd things I have ever read on this forum. You sir, are brainwashed.

If you had any legitimate reason to believe I am wrong, you would rebut my statements as support your claim that I am wrong. But not even the Book of Abraham claims that the new words are "correct names" so I guess you had to choose between considering that you may be wrong and throwing an insult. That you chose to insult me reveals a lot more about your character than mine.

[eddie]

I don't want to criticize the whole post. I think it is great to catalog what we do and do not know in this form. I appreciate the OP acknowledging the sources.

This list was authored in 2004 by an ex-Mormon who goes by the handle "Deconstructor," and used to host the website www.i4m.com. It appears to have gone offline earlier this year, but you can still access it via the WayBack Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20170321094 ... cience.htm

He has compiled several such lists. They are not intended to be faith promoting.

Also, 'DEEPER storm' is obviously the previously banned poster, 'deep water'.

Exactly Emma! I recognized it also..

[Thinker]

... Other items draw conclusions that are problematic; here's one example:

"God has cursed water and turned it over to Satan to control. Satan controls bodies of water, especially rivers. See D&C 61:13-19"

God didn't just flat out "curse water" and if you actually read the verses it says this: "the days will come that no flesh shall be safe upon the waters. And it shall be said in days to come that none is able to go up to the land of Zion upon the waters, but he that is upright in heart." So this cursing is a future event, not just a blanket cursing of all water.

It does seem that OP is trying to twist words - even make up some - to fit his strawman hypothesis. I think some of his ideas might be right on - he's just going about it in the wrong way. Why pick a strawman when you have a real man?

Trivia is not really the point of the gospel anyway. It's like watching Star Trek (especially the old one) and criticizing the cinematography and improbability so much that the plot line and witty comments are missed. Scriptures are spiritual books - intended to be "likened to us" like parables - not literally taken. If you read mythology - same thing - it's insane if you take it literally - but deep wisdom can be found if you take it symbolically.

[skywatcher]

I have been researching this topic for a while now and I believe that Kolob is not a planet. If you look at Book of Abraham chapter 3: 3 And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest. When it talks about near me Jesus is the closest one to God the Father. This is talking about Jesus as kolob it is a symbolized through astronomy. A lot of times it repeats it self in different ways. In verse 4, And the Lord said unto me, by the Urim and Thummim, that Kolob was after the manner of the Lord, according to its times and seasons in the revolutions thereof; that one revolution was a day unto the Lord, after his manner of reckoning, it being one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest. This is the reckoning of the Lord’s time, according to the reckoning of Kolob. This can also be found in the new testament of the bible. 2 Peter chapter 3 verse 8 But dont forget this one thing dear friends with the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. As we go further the book repeats itself. in verse 13 ,And he said unto me: This is Shinehah, which is the sun. And he said unto me: Kokob, which is star. And he said unto me: Olea, which is the moon. And he said unto me: Kokaubeam, which signifies stars, or all the great lights, which were in the firmament of heaven. when is talks about Kokaubeam this is talking about all of us before we came to earth. God the father is sybolized as a sun, Jesus is the greater star "star meaning planet" and all the others are all the people before we came to earth are also stars too. Later in the book in verse ,18 Howbeit that he made the greater star; as, also, if there be two spirits, and one shall be more intelligent than the other, yet these two spirits, notwithstanding one is more intelligent than the other, have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are gnolaum, or eternal. the two spirits are jesus and satan. jesus is the more intelligent because his plan was the be thr good savior, but satan is not as smart because he wanted to be God himself. This also gets reexplained in the book at verse 27 and 28. 27 And the Lord said: Whom shall I send? And one answered like unto the Son of Man: Here am I, send me. And another answered and said: Here am I, send me. And the Lord said: I will send the first.
28 And the second was angry, and kept not his first estate; and, at that day, many followed after him. so this is now explaining the same thing. If you want more proof about the symbolization of the astronomy in revelation in the Bible also talks about the beginning. in chapter 9 verse, 1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. this is satan gettin thrown into the abyss. notice it is mention star? this because it is symbolized to. I found all this at www.lds.org.