I know an elderly woman, who apparently went through some tough times and poor choices in her youth. She was married 3 times, probably one of her children was not fathered by any of the husbands. During some of the chaos, the children were farmed out to relatives, and some of them were apparently sexually molested. At not too old of an age, she seemed to have gone through a strong, compete and enduring repentance for her sins. She has lived a good life, been called as relief society president and served in the temple. She has done everything she could to finish raising her kids properly, and has done much to help them raise her grand children.
However, there is much evidence that many of the poor choices her children have made, are largely a result of reacting to events, and bad things that happened in their youth, during her bad times. She is very sensitive to how people judge her and her children, not only because of choices they made, but because there is an obvious red tint to all of their necks. She recognizes that her children would most probably have done better, had it not been for their background, some of which she was responsible for, and some of which she had no control over. She strongly believes that since she has long since repented of her sins, and that she has dedicated her life to living the gospel, that one blessing that she will receive is that in the end all of her children will return to the church and that celestially they will be one happy family.
I think she fails to grasp key concepts of repentance, and of equality. However, as I read this board, I see that these concepts are not understood by many.
There are 2 types of consequences for every action we perform. There is a consequence for our soul. Since this second estate is specifically a time to choose our final destination, the choices we make will ultimately determine which kingdom we go to, that is an important consequence for our choices. But there are also eternal consequences in what happens to us, and all of the people around us, related to our choices.
Christ's atonement, coupled with our repenting, and following him, allows us to overcome bad consequences of the first type, but does NOTHING to change the second type of consequences, The judgment as to which kingdom we will go to, is dependent upon are state of repentance, and acceptance of Jesus Christ as our savior at the time we die (I am not going into missionary work in the next life, and baptism for the dead, which if you think it though, actually changes nothing related to the point of this topic), not where we are. A good analogy is that the most important choice we make in this life is which way we are facing, not where we are when we die.
However, where we are IS important, and DOES have eternal consequences. every choice we make, probably including choices we made in the pre-existence, adds or subtracts from, our knowledge, status, and glory. And it works like compound interest. Too bad we have a financial system so screwed up, that most cannot either enjoy or understand this wonderful, earthly monetary blessing. However, for those who understand basic finance, if you save a bit every month, over years, your wealth eventually grows exponentially, as the interest on the interest on the interest, becomes much more significant to your growing wealth, than that the small amount saved each month.
The same is true in the growth of us as individual souls. The positional consequences of our choices does not change upon repentance, only the direction. Christ's atonement does not restore the losses to those we have harmed, including ourselves, it simply (and very importantly), washes us clean and faces us in the right direction.
Where we are here is some combination of coincidences and choices, we made and others have made. For that reason, I don't envy someone who is apparently doing better than I am, I celebrate, their success, and look to see how I can learn from the choices they made to improve my lot.
Also, while I hope to make it to the Celestial Kingdom, I have no expectations, that I am going to know as much, or have as much glory, or rule over as much as any other person... or have as many wives.. as some other person.
One of the great lies Satan has spread out is that equality, means equality of stuff, when in fact equality really means equal treatment and equal opportunity to choose an chart own path. This is true whether economically here on earth, or in the blessings we receive, even if we choose well enough to return to our father in the Celestial kingdom.
Regards,
George Clay
Choices, Compound interest, and why there is no equal Glory in the Celestial Kingdom
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gclayjr
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David13
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Re: Choices, Compound interest, and why there is no equal Glory in the Celestial Kingdom
Equality doesn't mean equal outcome. It means equal opportunity going in.
And I'll agree, the interest does compound on those choices made, even long ago.
dc
And I'll agree, the interest does compound on those choices made, even long ago.
dc
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Ezra
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Re: Choices, Compound interest, and why there is no equal Glory in the Celestial Kingdom
To add to your point
WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH THOSE WHO WILL ALLOW US NO MORE FREEDOM THAN WE ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM.
Over and over again, the scriptures emphasize that we will be judged according to our treatment of our fellowmen. If we are charitable, we will be placed with the sheep in the Lord’s kingdom rather than with the goats in outer darkness. (Matt. 25:31—46) If we forgive, we may be forgiven. (Matt.6:12) If we are just, we may rise in the resurrection of the Just: and dwell with them. (D&C Sec. 76) If we refrain from exercising compulsion unrighteously, our dominion in the hereafter may be everlasting and flow unto us forever and ever without compulsory means. (D&C Sec. 121) In short, we can expect to be treated in the next life as we treat others here.
The exact implementation of this law of the harvest will occur at the end of this life, when we will be divided into groups and each will be consigned to spend eternity with those with whom he is most like. An unjust person will dwell with those who will treat him unjustly; a kind, forgiving person will enjoy the companionship of kind and forgiving associates, etc. But the fact which is important to our discussion here is that each person will be with that group who will allow him to exercise no more freedom than he is willing to allow them.
If, during this life, we have been persuaded to believe that the force of government, or any other agency, should be used to deny our fellowmen the stewardship which God has given them over their families, their property, and their private affairs, we can be very certain that we will be placed with a group in the hereafter who will hold similar views. With such an attitude, we cannot expect to have stewardship or dominions of our own because we do not believe in them for others and neither will those with whom we will dwell believe in them for us. The poetic justice of God decrees that if we deprive our fellow of those unalienable rights which, according to the
Declaration of Independence, they have been endowed by their Creator, we will lose our free agency to the same extent.
H. Verlin. Anderson, “The Great and Abominable Church of the
Devil”
WE WILL SPEND ETERNITY WITH THOSE WHO WILL ALLOW US NO MORE FREEDOM THAN WE ARE WILLING TO ALLOW THEM.
Over and over again, the scriptures emphasize that we will be judged according to our treatment of our fellowmen. If we are charitable, we will be placed with the sheep in the Lord’s kingdom rather than with the goats in outer darkness. (Matt. 25:31—46) If we forgive, we may be forgiven. (Matt.6:12) If we are just, we may rise in the resurrection of the Just: and dwell with them. (D&C Sec. 76) If we refrain from exercising compulsion unrighteously, our dominion in the hereafter may be everlasting and flow unto us forever and ever without compulsory means. (D&C Sec. 121) In short, we can expect to be treated in the next life as we treat others here.
The exact implementation of this law of the harvest will occur at the end of this life, when we will be divided into groups and each will be consigned to spend eternity with those with whom he is most like. An unjust person will dwell with those who will treat him unjustly; a kind, forgiving person will enjoy the companionship of kind and forgiving associates, etc. But the fact which is important to our discussion here is that each person will be with that group who will allow him to exercise no more freedom than he is willing to allow them.
If, during this life, we have been persuaded to believe that the force of government, or any other agency, should be used to deny our fellowmen the stewardship which God has given them over their families, their property, and their private affairs, we can be very certain that we will be placed with a group in the hereafter who will hold similar views. With such an attitude, we cannot expect to have stewardship or dominions of our own because we do not believe in them for others and neither will those with whom we will dwell believe in them for us. The poetic justice of God decrees that if we deprive our fellow of those unalienable rights which, according to the
Declaration of Independence, they have been endowed by their Creator, we will lose our free agency to the same extent.
H. Verlin. Anderson, “The Great and Abominable Church of the
Devil”
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gclayjr
- captain of 1,000
- Posts: 2727
- Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Choices, Compound interest, and why there is no equal Glory in the Celestial Kingdom
David13, Ezra
Well Said. but I see so much about people who think that a Celestial Life means everybody has the same amount of stuff, glory or whatever, rather than a world where everybody has chosen the same direction, but will always be at different points along that path, based upon equal justice and choices made. So just as Satan confuses us into believing that fairness is equality in outcome, in God's world, even those whose choices has lead to going to the same place, doesn't mean that anybody is really at the same place.
Also, we learn from the parable of the prodigal son, that while the father rejoiced at the return of the prodigal son, and while we can assume that as a result of the choices he will make after returning, that he will improve his lot, all that the father had went to the son who chose to remain loyal.
This is the time to choose, and the most important result we can have is to be facing in the right direction, when we die. However, it doesn't take away from the eternal benefits of choosing the right as early as possible and following that path with as much vigor as we can, because we will eternally be better off for it.
Regards,
Georeg Clay
Well Said. but I see so much about people who think that a Celestial Life means everybody has the same amount of stuff, glory or whatever, rather than a world where everybody has chosen the same direction, but will always be at different points along that path, based upon equal justice and choices made. So just as Satan confuses us into believing that fairness is equality in outcome, in God's world, even those whose choices has lead to going to the same place, doesn't mean that anybody is really at the same place.
Also, we learn from the parable of the prodigal son, that while the father rejoiced at the return of the prodigal son, and while we can assume that as a result of the choices he will make after returning, that he will improve his lot, all that the father had went to the son who chose to remain loyal.
This is the time to choose, and the most important result we can have is to be facing in the right direction, when we die. However, it doesn't take away from the eternal benefits of choosing the right as early as possible and following that path with as much vigor as we can, because we will eternally be better off for it.
Regards,
Georeg Clay
