On humility

[marc]

"It is in our relation to one another, in our treatment of one another, that the true lowliness of mind and the heart of humility are to be seen. Our humility before God has no value, but as it prepares us to reveal the humility of Jesus to our fellow men. Let us study humility in daily life in the light of these words...

True humility comes when, in the light of God, we have seen ourselves to be nothing, have consented to part with and cast away self to let God be all. The soul that has done this, and can say, So have I lost myself in finding Thee, no longer compares itself with others. It has given up forever every thought of self in God's presence; it meets its fellow-men as one who is nothing, and seeks nothing for itself; who is a servant of God , and for His sake a servant of all. A faithful servant may be wiser than the master, and yet retain the true spirit and posture of the servant. The humble man looks upon every, the feeblest and unworthiest child of God, and honors him and prefers him in honor as the son of a King. The spirit of Him who washed the disciples' feet makes it a joy to us to be indeed the least, to be servants of one another..."--Andrew Murray, Humility and Absolute Surrender, pp. 22-23

[marc]

"Unless we make, with each advance in what we think holiness, the increase of humility our study, we may find that we have been delighting in beautiful thoughts and feelings, in solemn acts of consecration and faith,
while the only sure mark of the presence of God, the disappearance of self, was all the time wanting. Come and let us flee to Jesus, and hide ourselves in Him until we be clothed upon with His humility. That alone is our holiness."--Andrew Murray, Humility and Absolute Surrender, p. 30

[diligently seeking]

3 nephi

18 I am the light and the life of the world. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.
19 And ye shall offer up unto me no more the shedding of blood; yea, your sacrifices and your burnt offerings shall be done away, for I will accept none of your sacrifices and your burnt offerings.
20 And ye shall offer for a sacrifice unto me a broken heart and a contrite spirit. And whoso cometh unto me with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, him will I baptize with fire and with the Holy Ghost, even as the Lamanites, because of their faith in me at the time of their conversion, were baptized with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and they knew it not.
21 Behold, I have come unto the world to bring redemption unto the world, to save the world from sin.
22 Therefore, whoso repenteth and cometh unto me as a little child, >>>( "to hide" and be empowered in and through the strength of our GREAT Advocate, healer, protector, Savior and Redeemer Jesus Christ) him will I receive, for of such is the kingdom of God. Behold, for such I have laid down my life, and have taken it up again; therefore repent, and come unto me ye ends of the earth, and be saved.

[marc]

The Apostle Paul who was a Pharisee and the son of a Pharisee, said:

1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

and

Ephesians 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ...

and

1 Timothy 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief...

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Jesus said to the Jews who persecuted Him for healing on the Sabbath:

John 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another?.... As the Scribes and Pharisees did, who were ambitious of honour and respect from one another, as well as from the common people; doing all they did to be seen of men, and to gain applause among them: choosing the uppermost rooms at feasts, and chief places in the synagogues, and delighting in the pompous title of Rabbi, Rabbi; and were in expectation of the temporal kingdom of the Messiah, when they hoped to be advanced to places of great honour and profit; and all this was an hinderance to them from believing in Christ, who appeared in such an abject form, and made so mean a figure; whose doctrine was so unsuitable to their carnal minds, and whose followers were so poor and contemptible; and besides it was made a law among them, that those who professed him to be the Messiah, should be cast out of the synagogue: hence many who were convinced that he was the Messiah, durst not confess him, lest they should lose their honour and respect among men, which they preferred to the praise of God... John Gill's Exposition of Bible, John 5:44

[marc]

"The humble man feels no jealousy or envy. He can praise God when others are preferred and blessed before him. He can bear to hear others praised and himself forgotten, because in God's presence he has learned to say with Paul, "I am nothing." He has received the spirit of Jesus, who pleased not Himself, and sought not His own honor,
as the spirit of his life."--Andrew Murray, Humility and Absolute Surrender, p. 23

[diligently seeking]

2 corinthians 12

7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

8For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong

[marc]

Humility is simply the disposition which prepares the soul for living on trust. And every, even the most secret breathing of pride, in self-seeking, self-will, self-confidence, or self exaltation, is just the strengthening of that self which cannot enter the kingdom, or possess the things of that kingdom, because it refuses to allow God to be what He is and must be there--the All in All. (emphasis mine)

Does our pride make us an enemy to God? All enemies will be put under him.

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[diligently seeking]

You Are My All In All/Canon In D https://g.co/kgs/3U8Z6K

[ajax]

I have a pet peeve against self-flagellating humility.

[diligently seeking]

I have a pet peeve against self-flagellating humility.

We all have pet peeves / "stumbling stones of offense". They are nothing that receiving the GIFT that requires us amongst other things to "pray with all the energy of heart to the Father " to receive--- won't / will take care of.

Moroni 7:

45 And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

46 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, if ye have not charity, ye are nothing, for charity never faileth. Wherefore, cleave unto charity, which is the greatest of all, for all things must fail

47 But charity is the pure love of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

48 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, pray unto the Father with all the energy of heart, that ye may be filled with this love, which he hath bestowed upon all who are true followers of his Son, Jesus Christ; that ye may become the sons of God; that when he shall appear we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is; that we may have this hope; that we may be purified even as he is pure. Amen.

[ajax]

I have a pet peeve against self-flagellating humility.

We all have pet peeves / "stumbling stones of offense".

I actually consider it a gift.

[marc]

I have a pet peeve against self-flagellating humility.

Do you consider the cup that Jesus drank in Gethsemane to the bitter dregs self flagellation? If not, ought we all then become as Jesus, willingly subjecting ourselves to the will of God and not our own?

[ajax]

I have a pet peeve against self-flagellating humility.

Do you consider the cup that Jesus drank in Gethsemane to the bitter dregs self flagellation?

No. What I mean is our proclamation of our humility to others. "Wo is me" type stuff. Keep it in the closet.

[marc]

No. What I mean is our proclamation of our humility to others. "Wo is me" type stuff. Keep it in the closet.

Was Jesus Christ humble? Did He flaunt His humility? Or is the author of this book humble or by writing about the subject declaring himself to be humble? Or do you think I see myself as being humble because I am sharing these things? I am learning just how much I am not humble and just how selfish I have been and am. Isn't it worth sharing?

[diligently seeking]

It's tough to proclaim flauntingly that your humble. in my mind I've been trying to conjure up examples. I understand self-righteous people drawing attention to themselves by asserting how good they are--- maybe that's what you're referring to, Ajax? Humility is so defined in Its look and behavior that a person would look the fool-- if they Proclaimed they were humble and it was obvious that they were not. In this telestial fallen world--- acts of righteousness lived and proclaimed are thing of mockery to most. We don't have to look any further than the reception-- the poor reception of the people of planet earth through scriptures of the struggle to believe and be healed through Jesus. Crucify him crucify him they shouted the demand for Pilate to issue the execution of the Prince of Peace...

I love how president Benson exposes the adversary for our protection:
"Pride is a very misunderstood sin, and many are sinning in ignorance. (See Mosiah 3:11; 3 Ne. 6:18.) In the scriptures there is no such thing as righteous pride—it is always considered a sin. Therefore, no matter how the world uses the term, we must understand how God uses the term so we can understand the language of holy writ and profit thereby. (See 2 Ne. 4:15; Mosiah 1:3–7; Alma 5:61.)

Most of us think of pride as self-centeredness, conceit, boastfulness, arrogance, or haughtiness. All of these are elements of the sin, but the heart, or core, is still missing.

"The central feature of pride is enmity—enmity toward God and enmity toward our fellowmen. Enmity means “hatred toward, hostility to, or a state of opposition.” It is the power by which Satan wishes to reign over us." ETB

[ajax]

No. What I mean is our proclamation of our humility to others. "Wo is me" type stuff. Keep it in the closet.

Was Jesus Christ humble? Did He flaunt His humility? Or is the author of this book humble or by writing about the subject declaring himself to be humble? Or do you think I see myself as being humble because I am sharing these things? I am learning just how much I am not humble and just how selfish I have been and am. Isn't it worth sharing?

I'm speaking generally, not specifically. There is a lot of faux humility in the world, usually with the intent to deceive. That's all.

And I usually find the more people talk about it, the more faux humility they have.

[marc]

I suppose the same could be said about people who talk about love, patience or any other virtue. I appreciate, however what Paul had to say.

Ephesians 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

But since I am far from humble, I also don't believe that talking about it should be kept in a closet or under a bushel.

[ajax]

Again, I'm speaking generally (on the topic) and not specifically (about you).

[marc]

Again, I'm speaking generally (on the topic) and not specifically (about you).

I know. But if I should share anymore about the subject, it invites discussion, which in turn invites more cynicism. I'll just leave it be for now unless I read more that's worth sharing.

[ajax]

Don't be so sensitive marc. If you're going to have a topic "On __________", I would assume it would entail all facets. For example, wouldn't a topic, "On Faith", include all aspects of faith, including false faith?

So are there any keys to understanding true humility vs false humility?

[diligently seeking]

But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

At times this quote by TJ has come to my mind for people around me who might be falling short like myself. We strive we try and more often than we like to admit-- we fall on our faces when it comes to having to our satisfaction--- the thoughts words and actions of our Savior. Hence Nephi's beautiful Lament and hopeful faith-filled perspective / pleading prayer and testimony in 2nd Nephi chapter 4.

Becoming charity-- the Pure Love Of Christ is truly our only true help in navigating the ugly morass of mortality. See mosiah 2-5. In seeing a great example of how to obtain and grow in this healing protective love and diminish the damning affects of enmity in our lives.




Have always loved this quote by Good Brother Covey:

When we make deposits of unconditional love, when we live the primary laws of love, we encourage others to live the primary laws of life. In other words, when we truly love others without condition, without strings, we help them feel secure and safe and validated and affirmed in their essential worth, identity, and integrity. Their natural growth process is encouraged. We make it easier for them to live the laws of life-cooperation, contribution, self-discipline, and integrity - and to discover and live true to the highest and best within them. We give them the freedom to act on their own inner imperatives rather than react to our conditions and limitations. This does not mean we become permissive or soft. That itself is a massive withdrawal. We counsel, we plead; we set limits, and consequences. But we love, regardless.

When we violate the primary laws of love - when we attach strings and conditions to that gift - we actually encourage others to violate the primary laws of life. We put them in a reactive, defensive position where they feel they have to prove "I matter as a person, independent of you."

In reality, they aren't independent. They are counter-dependent, which is another form of dependency…. They become reactive, almost enemy-centered, more concerned about defending their "rights" and producing evidence of their individuality than they are about proactively listening to and honoring their own inner imperatives.

Rebellion is a knot of the heart, not of the mind. The key is to make deposits-constant deposits of unconditional love. Stephen R Covey


To affirm people in their strengths even when they're coming off a little phony-- is Divine, yes?

Everyone needs permission to become the better angel of their nature through what comes from receiving healing Christ empowered love. Those who remain in a lukewarm / Faux state of becoming-- this is where the long-suffering part of charity helps us to move forward... charity however always remains optimistic--- how can it not when it thinks no evil and rejoices not in iniquity etc?

At the end of the day we can be as deliberate and proactive as we humanly can to have a disposition that is filled with charity. However, until we become changed through the atonement of Jesus Christ (see Peter, Alma the younger Etc) and put off the natural man by receiving the the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost-- Pessimism and other progress slowing behaviors will thwart the way.


This thread / op is essential reinforcement on the need to understand what Marc is laying down encouraging the importance of being humble so that Christ our "all in all" can enter in...

Learn of me--- Christ says --- I'm meek and lowly in heart and such shall find rest their souls for my yoke is easy and my burden is light...

[shadow]

No. What I mean is our proclamation of our humility to others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R42mFx3_ss

[ajax]

No. What I mean is our proclamation of our humility to others.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R42mFx3_ss

Epitome.

[marc]

Don't be so sensitive marc. If you're going to have a topic "On __________", I would assume it would entail all facets. For example, wouldn't a topic, "On Faith", include all aspects of faith, including false faith?

So are there any keys to understanding true humility vs false humility?

I was simply being forthright. As for keys to distinguish the two, I suppose true humility is evident in someone who abases himself or herself in order to lift another as described in the quotes I provided as opposed to those who exalt and aggrandize themselves at the expense of others.

[drtanner]

Don't be so sensitive marc. If you're going to have a topic "On __________", I would assume it would entail all facets. For example, wouldn't a topic, "On Faith", include all aspects of faith, including false faith?

So are there any keys to understanding true humility vs false humility?

I'd say the keys are outlined fairly well in all of what Marc has shared for example:

True humility comes when, in the light of God, we have seen ourselves to be nothing, have consented to part with and cast away self to let God be all. The soul that has done this, and can say, So have I lost myself in finding Thee, no longer compares itself with others. It has given up forever every thought of self in God's presence; it meets its fellow-men as one who is nothing, and seeks nothing for itself; who is a servant of God , and for His sake a servant of all. A faithful servant may be wiser than the master, and yet retain the true spirit and posture of the servant. The humble man looks upon every, the feeblest and unworthiest child of God, and honors him and prefers him in honor as the son of a King. The spirit of Him who washed the disciples' feet makes it a joy to us to be indeed the least, to be servants of one another..."--Andrew Murray, Humility and Absolute Surrender, pp. 22-23