People claiming to have seen Christ

[Rand]

Many years ago, the women in my household came home from a women's conference with a very interesting report.
Elder Bednar and his Wife were the speakers. They did not have a topic, they answered questions from the audience.
One question and answer has stuck in my mind. A young lady said she was trying to have a personal relationship
with Christ but felt that just wasn't happening. Elder Bednar's response amazing.
"You don't understand, the only relationship you can have with the Savior is to be in complete and utter awe
of who he is and what he has done."

This is a great quote! I would that I could know first hand of its accuracy... not doubting you, but third hand quotes are always of shaky reliability. But, that said, I love the teaching. Thanks for sharing. I wish all could accept that idea. But some want to hold onto what they currently believe.

[sushi_chef]

in the case of elder whitney, he was told, "That will depend entirely upon yourself."

http://www.mormonhaven.com/whitney.htm

[marc]

in the case of elder whitney, he was told, "That will depend entirely upon yourself."

http://www.mormonhaven.com/whitney.htm

That was beautiful!

[diligently seeking]

Many years ago, the women in my household came home from a women's conference with a very interesting report.
Elder Bednar and his Wife were the speakers. They did not have a topic, they answered questions from the audience.
One question and answer has stuck in my mind. A young lady said she was trying to have a personal relationship
with Christ but felt that just wasn't happening. Elder Bednar's response amazing.
"You don't understand, the only relationship you can have with the Savior is to be in complete and utter awe
of who he is and what he has done."

This is a great quote! I would that I could know first hand of its accuracy... not doubting you, but third hand quotes are always of shaky reliability. But, that said, I love the teaching. Thanks for sharing. I wish all could accept that idea. But some want to hold onto what they currently believe.

Revelation 3
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

It is unfortunate if Elder Bednar. Actually said that. Contextually maybe there is more to it than what was said in this quote? Scriptures tell us to draw near unto Christ and he will draw near unto us. To the extent that we abide in him he can and will abide in and with us. Christ is not meant to be just a grand story or a beautiful picture on the wall to be emotional and rejoice over-- he is meant to: "for I will go before your face. I will be on your right hand and on your left, and my Spirit shall be in your hearts, and mine dangels round about you, to bear you up."


Lets start to hear his voice


D&C 93
Verily, thus saith the Lord: It shall come to pass that every soul who forsaketh his sins and cometh unto me, and calleth on my name, and obeyeth my voice, and keepeth my commandments, shall see my face and know that I am;

[True]

I used to be discouraged about having a relationship with someone I was not even speaking to. How would praying to God bring me closer to Jesus Christ? Then, after the Lord humbled me sufficiently, I began to read my scriptures in earnest. I began to pray with all the energy of soul and began to worship God with all my might. I was hungering and thirsting after righteousness. All of the sudden, I was in utter awe of Jesus Christ and what he has done! (For context, this was over a period months and my knowledge increased as my diligence was proven.)

From reading my scriptures and attendant revelation, the character of Christ began to unfold before me: His goodness, His mercy, His kindness and quickness to forgive, His humor and humility and utter accessibility. This knowledge gave me confidence to put my trust in him and as I tried the goodness of the Lord, my faith in Him grew and I trusted him even more. This trust and confidence led to great spiritual blessings which led me to trust Him even more. A divine spiral upwards.

During this process (the essential part of the divine spiral), I was submitting myself to the will of the Lord by following good ideas and promptings that came to me. I started to really notice and pay attention to all those promptings to do good and actually follow them. I tried not to let one fall to the ground. I began to realize that the promptings were the voice of the Lord and as I inclined my ear to listen, I was coming to know my Savior. I was in divine partnership with with the King of Kings and I could draw from His inexhaustible abundance according to my need. How good He is and how kind. Despite my utter unworthiness and ability to muster any righteousness on my own, He has covered me in the robes of His righteousness and has lent to me some of His goodness, according to my faith and confidence in Him.

Psalms 17
15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

[diligently seeking]

I used to be discouraged about having a relationship with someone I was not even speaking to. How would praying to God bring me closer to Jesus Christ? Then, after the Lord humbled me sufficiently, I began to read my scriptures in earnest. I began to pray with all the energy of soul and began to worship God with all my might. I was hungering and thirsting after righteousness. All of the sudden, I was in utter awe of Jesus Christ and what he has done! (For context, this was over a period months and my knowledge increased as my diligence was proven.)

From reading my scriptures and attendant revelation, the character of Christ began to unfold before me: His goodness, His mercy, His kindness and quickness to forgive, His humor and humility and utter accessibility. This knowledge gave me confidence to put my trust in him and as I tried the goodness of the Lord, my faith in Him grew and I trusted him even more. This trust and confidence led to great spiritual blessings which led me to trust Him even more. A divine spiral upwards.

During this process (the essential part of the divine spiral), I was submitting myself to the will of the Lord by following good ideas and promptings that came to me. I started to really notice and pay attention to all those promptings to do good and actually follow them. I tried not to let one fall to the ground. I began to realize that the promptings were the voice of the Lord and as I inclined my ear to listen, I was coming to know my Savior. I was in divine partnership with with the King of Kings and I could draw from His inexhaustible abundance according to my need. How good He is and how kind. Despite my utter unworthiness and ability to muster any righteousness on my own, He has covered me in the robes of His righteousness and has lent to me some of His goodness, according to my faith and confidence in Him.

Psalms 17
15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

Beautiful post. Thank you Sister True.

[drtanner]

I am curious. How many people who have posted in this thread are living their lives seeking to rend the veil of unbelief (Ether 4) and see Him face to face as the brother of Jared?

I have faith that all of the promises that are in the scriptures are available to all. My priority is not to try and force an experience but to simply love him and others as best I can, do my best to keep the covenants I have made, make sure I am in harmony with the teachings of the living prophets, and try and do many things of my own free will to partner with him in his work. I often fall short and find myself wishing I could do more. I have no agenda or expectation with the Lord but do try and keep his commandments and serve others and let him do with me as he will in his own time and way. I would say at the moment these words would describe my feelings:

Either: 3:2...Now behold, O Lord, and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before thee; for we know that thou art holy and dwellest in the heavens, and that we are unworthy before thee; because of the fall our natures have become evil continually; nevertheless, O Lord, thou hast given us a commandment that we must call upon thee, that from thee we may receive according to our desires.

3 Behold, O Lord, thou hast smitten us because of our iniquity, and hast driven us forth, and for these many years we have been in the wilderness; nevertheless, thou hast been merciful unto us. O Lord, look upon me in pity,...

[marc]

Thank you for sharing your personal thoughts, drtanner.

[topcat]

I wasn't aware lots of people are seeing Christ. If so that's awesome to hear.

I assume the twelve see Jesus. Is that a good assumption?

But a friend and I were talking the other day, and she brought up what I thought was a good point. She said, anybody who sees Christ or an angel AND is given a message, like King Benjamin was, must be obedient and share that message, assuming he was commanded to share the message.

I suppose Christ appears to people. My wife just finished a book about a Mormon convert who is tatooed all over her body. She said Jesus appeared to her, and smiled at her. She wasn't commanded to share a specific message. So it appears Christ can appear as a way to comfort or do a personal ministry, but that is to be distinguished from appearing and then commanding that person to deliver a message.

Is anybody out there proclaiming to have seen Jesus and to a have a message? I'm not aware any of the Twelve claim this, but I've assumed they meet Jesus.

[diligently seeking]

Ether 1:43. “This Long Time Ye Have Cried unto Me”
"The Lord explained to the brother of Jared that blessings had come to his people as a result of prayers offered over a long time. Enduring obedience coupled with frequent and persistent prayers is powerful. In an 1839 discourse in Commerce, Illinois, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “God is not a respecter of persons, we all have the same privilege. Come to God weary him until he blesses you &c we are entitled to the same blessings” ([recorded in Willard Richards Pocket Companion, 78–79] cited in The Words of Joseph Smith: The Contemporary Accounts of the Nauvoo Discourses of the Prophet Joseph, comp. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook [1980], 15).

[kittycat51]

Did anyone notice what Elder Anderson read in the last General conference on this topic? He gave his talk, but then also mentioned that Elder Hales wrote a brief talk that he planned to give, IF he was feeling well enough to attend. Of course, he wasn't well enough--he died while GC was still in session. Elder Anderson shared some of what he was going to tell us; here are Elder Hales last words of counsel to the members:

(Clarification. Elder Hales died at 12:15 MST, 15 minutes after the end of Conference. Elder Anderson even stated that President Nelson had just barely enough time to rush to the hospital after GC to be there when Elder Hales passed.)

Point well noted though!

[AI2.0]

Did anyone notice what Elder Anderson read in the last General conference on this topic? He gave his talk, but then also mentioned that Elder Hales wrote a brief talk that he planned to give, IF he was feeling well enough to attend. Of course, he wasn't well enough--he died while GC was still in session. Elder Anderson shared some of what he was going to tell us; here are Elder Hales last words of counsel to the members:

(Clarification. Elder Hales died at 12:15 MST, 15 minutes after the end of Conference. Elder Anderson even stated that President Nelson had just barely enough time to rush to the hospital after GC to be there when Elder Hales passed.)

Point well noted though!

Yes, you are right, he died between the morning and afternoon sessions on Sunday; When I said 'He died while the GC was still in session', I meant the 187th Semi annual General Conference. I didn't know the exact time, thanks for posting it.

[Silver Pie]

"You don't understand, the only relationship you can have with the Savior is to be in complete and utter awe of who he is and what he has done."

This reply shows incredible ignorance of the scriptures and of what Joseph Smith plainly taught. (And, if he said it, having the office of apostle does not make it magically true.)

[JohnnyL]

For those that don't put seeing and conversing with The Lord as a priority in their lives (which is their choice of course), I'm curious how they interpret John 17:3, Psalms 27:8, or D&C 101:38 to name a few verses.

dewajack, marc, JaredBees,

Do you believe that this is the same as "entering into the rest of the Lord"?

[marc]

For those that don't put seeing and conversing with The Lord as a priority in their lives (which is their choice of course), I'm curious how they interpret John 17:3, Psalms 27:8, or D&C 101:38 to name a few verses.

dewajack, marc, JaredBees,

Do you believe that this is the same as "entering into the rest of the Lord"?

For my reply, let me first quote those three passages:

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Psalms 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

D&C 101:38 And seek the face of the Lord always, that in patience ye may possess your souls, and ye shall have eternal life.

These passages only hint at what entering into the rest of the Lord means. The first passage implies it, while the other two describe a labor to find said rest. Once a person has found that rest, his labors to engage in this particular activity end. That does not mean there are other labors to perform. It simply means that laboring to part the veil being redeemed from the Fall of Adam has ended.

The three Nephites, for example found rest in the Lord, yet continue to labor in the vineyard. Some few mortals today have found this rest and yet continue to labor in the vineyard. This kind of "witness" is a true apostle in the fullest sense of the word. Paul was an apostle called by Jesus outside of His "church hierarchy." Alma the younger could also be called an apostle as Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, Moroni, etc. They were also prophets because they had the Spirit of the Lord and were given messages to take to covenant peoples.

The brother of Jared was also an "apostle" because he saw Jesus face to face, having parted the veil being redeemed from the Fall. This is what it means to "partake" of His goodness, which hearkens to the tree of Life found at the end of the iron rod. In the vision, Lehi saw people falling to the ground to partake. These had come to the end of their labors of pressing forward and found rest in partaking of their "fruits."

Having said all of this, let us now read what the prophet (and "apostle") Mormon said as written by Moroni:

Moroni 7:1 And now I, Moroni, write a few of the words of my father Mormon, which he spake concerning faith, hope, and charity; for after this manner did he speak unto the people, as he taught them in the synagogue which they had built for the place of worship.

2 And now I, Mormon, speak unto you, my beloved brethren; and it is by the grace of God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, and his holy will, because of the gift of his calling unto me, that I am permitted to speak unto you at this time.

3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.

Mormon is addressing ALL covenant people who are "peaceable followers" of Jesus Christ. In other words, he is not addressing those who still feel the need to engage in contentions and disputations, who do not reconcile themselves with one another. These cannot live together with one heart and one mind, which is a description of those who are Zion individuals. Zion individuals are those who are peaceable. They do not have to be right. They can have different opinions of things, different experiences and different understanding of things and do not begrudge one another for it or try to disabuse one another for being or thinking differently.

Mormon is addressing only those of us who know how to love one another unconditionally and have "obtained a sufficient hope" by which they can enter into this rest. You see, they have not yet parted the veil as the bro of Jared, but they have received what Joseph Smith refers to as an "anchor to their souls" or in other words, having made their calling and election sure. The apostle Peter describes the process explicitly in 2 Peter 1:1-11.

Joseph Smith describes this "rest" in D&C, which was given to him by revelation from the Lord:

D&C 84:18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.

19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.

20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also

Therefore, to obtain this "rest" is to obtain the "fullness" of His glory. This is what the Lord offered Enoch and the covenant people of Enoch's day. They were peaceable followers of Jesus. This what the Lord offered Moses and the covenant people of Moses' day. They were not peaceable followers nor believers of Jesus. Therefore, they were left to wander in the wilderness unredeemed. This is what the Lord offered Joseph Smith and the covenant people of Joseph's day. They tried to be peaceable followers and believers of Jesus, but because of their jarrings and contentions and, well, I'll just quote Jesus:

D&C 101:6 Behold, I say unto you, there were jarrings, and contentions, and envyings, and strifes, and lustful and covetous desires among them; therefore by these things they polluted their inheritances.

So Jesus took Joseph (and Hyrum) leaving the covenant people to wander in the wilderness unredeemed where we remain today. But some few believers and peaceable followers are beginning to wake up and to rise up and to come unto Jesus the way Jesus intended. And if any should exercise faith as Enoch, Moses and the bro of Jared, they will rend the veil of unbelief (Ether 4) and find that "rest." Thus they will be redeemed from the Fall, being eye witnesses of Jesus Christ.

[BeNotDeceived]

"You don't understand, the only relationship you can have with the Savior is to be in complete and utter awe of who he is and what he has done."

This reply shows incredible ignorance of the scriptures and of what Joseph Smith plainly taught. (And, if he said it, having the office of apostle does not make it magically true.)

I take this occasion to raise my voice ...

What if they raise their voice

[JohnnyL]

If you were to ask about entering into the rest of the Lord as a goal, I would concur.

Seeing God, however, is not.

Please see Alma 13.

The purpose of Jesus standing at the door, waiting for us to knock, is so He can open it and take us into the presence of the Father.

My goal is to perform the mission I have been given. Which was Alma's goal, and about every other saint's goal, hopefully. What might be given along the way, as deemed necessary by God (I put that quote up somewhere here before)--such as blessings from the Spirit such as visions, miracles, appearances, etc.--are personal and as the quote said, different for each person, as God sees fit.

Do you believe that one must see Christ in order to be redeemed from the Fall?

[marc]

Do you believe that one must see Christ in order to be redeemed from the Fall?

Seeing Christ=being redeemed from the Fall. (Ether chs. 3&4)

One cannot be redeemed from the Fall without rending the veil. It is precisely why Adam and Eve "fell" into the telestial world, veiled from the face of Jesus Christ. They could still hear him and converse with him. Even Cain could, but all from the dark side of the veil. Therefore to rend the veil is to be brought back into His presence, thus redemption from the Fall.

[JohnnyL]

Do you believe that one must see Christ in order to be redeemed from the Fall?

Seeing Christ=being redeemed from the Fall. (Ether chs. 3&4)

One cannot be redeemed from the Fall without rending the veil. It is precisely why Adam and Eve "fell" into the telestial world, veiled from the face of Jesus Christ. They could still hear him and converse with him. Even Cain could, but all from the dark side of the veil. Therefore to rend the veil is to be brought back into His presence, thus redemption from the Fall.

That's where I figured you were going.

[marc]

On a side note, being redeemed and being saved are two distinct events. Being redeemed means regaining a possession (of something). Because of Jesus' rights of mercy, He redeems us from our fallen state when the veil is rent. He saves us when all our enemies are defeated including death, the last enemy. Therefore, being saved is being rescued and preserved from the telestial world into the celestial world.

[diligently seeking]

Most members are entrenched with the current narative. The current narrative bypasses much scripture admonitions and especially the admonitions of Joseph. Agendas from yester-year and current years being promoted are in clear contrast on many doctronial issues with one another. But this is coming from a guy that believes Joseph was against polygamous relationships and never practiced such ways of living himself... So many disconnects in our understanding with our history that lead us where we were at right now in regard to our belief and unbelief... I suggest that if we are pouring over the scriptures and are hungering and thirsting for righteousness all these things are abundantly clear... To often I think it is easy for members not to pour over holy writ because of the ease of what conference talks offer us in regards to what is believed to be the expressed will of God.
Why has the narrative / message changed a good degree from yester-year to current times? Joseph must have been off track to encourage the receiving of the deeper things of the Gospel of Jesus Christ? I think my position is understood on where I stand on all of this.

[Jonesy]

I think emphasis should be made on faith, not the knowing part. After all, it’s faith that saves, not knowledge. Knowledge is just the fruit of one’s faith.

[diligently seeking]

http://www.mormonstories.org/daymon-smi ... nd-mammon/

Fascinating / sobering... to learn in podcast's 1-4 the history of knowledge being disseminated / interpreted...


Ps no i am not a John Dehlin advocate. His podcasts were decently objective back in 2010 when these were recorded.

[diligently seeking]

I think emphasis should be made on faith, not the knowing part. After all, it’s faith that saves, not knowledge. Knowledge is just the fruit of one’s faith.

Joseph said:


Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. Woe unto you priests and divines who preach that knowledge is not necessary unto life and salvation. Take away Apostles, etc., take away knowledge, and you will find yourselves worthy of the damnation of hell. Knowledge is revelation. Hear, all ye brethren, this grand key: knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.”13

“Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is. … In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge; and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all.”14

“As far as we degenerate from God, we descend to the devil and lose knowledge, and without knowledge we cannot be saved, and while our hearts are filled with evil, and we are studying evil, there is no room in our hearts for good, or studying good. Is not God good? Then you be good; if He is faithful, then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, and seek for every good thing [see 2 Peter 1:5].

“… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.”15

Joseph Smith taught the following in April 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 130:18–19: “Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.”16

Joseph Smith taught the following in May 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 131:6: “It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.”17

We obtain knowledge of eternal truths through diligent study and prayer.

George A. Smith, while serving in the First Presidency, reported: “Joseph Smith taught that every man and woman should seek the Lord for wisdom, that they might get knowledge from Him who is the fountain of knowledge; and the promises of the gospel, as revealed, were such as to authorize us to believe, that by taking this course we should gain the object of our pursuit.”18

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote the following to a man who had recently joined the Church: “You remember the testimony which I bore in the name of the Lord Jesus, concerning the great work which He has brought forth in the last days. You know my manner of communication, how that in weakness and simplicity, I declared to you what the Lord had brought forth by the ministering of His holy angels to me for this generation. I pray that the Lord may enable you to treasure these things in your mind, for I know that His Spirit will bear testimony to all who seek diligently after knowledge from Him.”19

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote the following to a man who wanted to learn more about the Church: “Study the Bible, and as many of our books as you can get; pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, have faith in the promises made to the fathers, and your mind will be guided to the truth.”20

“The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God, than the vain imaginations of the human heart! …

“… Let honesty, and sobriety, and candor, and solemnity, and virtue, and pureness, and meekness, and simplicity crown our heads in every place; and in fine, become as little children, without malice, guile or hypocrisy. And now, brethren, after your tribulations, if you do these things, and exercise fervent prayer and faith in the sight of God always, He shall give unto you knowledge by His Holy Spirit, yea by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost [see D&C 121:26].”21

[Jonesy]

I think emphasis should be made on faith, not the knowing part. After all, it’s faith that saves, not knowledge. Knowledge is just the fruit of one’s faith.

Joseph said:


Knowledge is necessary to life and godliness. Woe unto you priests and divines who preach that knowledge is not necessary unto life and salvation. Take away Apostles, etc., take away knowledge, and you will find yourselves worthy of the damnation of hell. Knowledge is revelation. Hear, all ye brethren, this grand key: knowledge is the power of God unto salvation.”13

“Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense and doubt; for these cannot exist where knowledge is. … In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge; and hence He knows how to subject all other beings to Him. He has power over all.”14

“As far as we degenerate from God, we descend to the devil and lose knowledge, and without knowledge we cannot be saved, and while our hearts are filled with evil, and we are studying evil, there is no room in our hearts for good, or studying good. Is not God good? Then you be good; if He is faithful, then you be faithful. Add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, and seek for every good thing [see 2 Peter 1:5].

“… A man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge, for if he does not get knowledge, he will be brought into captivity by some evil power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge, and consequently more power than many men who are on the earth. Hence it needs revelation to assist us, and give us knowledge of the things of God.”15

Joseph Smith taught the following in April 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 130:18–19: “Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.”16

Joseph Smith taught the following in May 1843, later recorded in Doctrine and Covenants 131:6: “It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.”17

We obtain knowledge of eternal truths through diligent study and prayer.

George A. Smith, while serving in the First Presidency, reported: “Joseph Smith taught that every man and woman should seek the Lord for wisdom, that they might get knowledge from Him who is the fountain of knowledge; and the promises of the gospel, as revealed, were such as to authorize us to believe, that by taking this course we should gain the object of our pursuit.”18

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote the following to a man who had recently joined the Church: “You remember the testimony which I bore in the name of the Lord Jesus, concerning the great work which He has brought forth in the last days. You know my manner of communication, how that in weakness and simplicity, I declared to you what the Lord had brought forth by the ministering of His holy angels to me for this generation. I pray that the Lord may enable you to treasure these things in your mind, for I know that His Spirit will bear testimony to all who seek diligently after knowledge from Him.”19

The Prophet Joseph Smith wrote the following to a man who wanted to learn more about the Church: “Study the Bible, and as many of our books as you can get; pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ, have faith in the promises made to the fathers, and your mind will be guided to the truth.”20

“The things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God. How much more dignified and noble are the thoughts of God, than the vain imaginations of the human heart! …

“… Let honesty, and sobriety, and candor, and solemnity, and virtue, and pureness, and meekness, and simplicity crown our heads in every place; and in fine, become as little children, without malice, guile or hypocrisy. And now, brethren, after your tribulations, if you do these things, and exercise fervent prayer and faith in the sight of God always, He shall give unto you knowledge by His Holy Spirit, yea by the unspeakable gift of the Holy Ghost [see D&C 121:26].”21

Is this supposed to prove me wrong? Rather than throw a bunch of quotes at me, can you explain yourself in your own words?