Remnant General Conference this weekend

[SmallFarm]

=))

https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes ... us2000aekg

=))

Thanks dude. Your post won me ten bucks.

Probably only on a technicality because the bet didn't specify intent?

[underdog]

I attended the conference. Any questions?

[underdog]

A few points:

• Denver prophesied that America will be destroyed by fratricide and genocide. I would imagine this prophecy should make headlines very soon.

• Said more or less that the solar eclipse from Aug 21 signified the withdrawing of the Lord's spirit from the earth due to the wickedness of man.

• Said that hate would increase. Hate and anger will get out of control.

• Said the times of Gentiles has been fulfilled.

• Said to love one another. Even when hated and persecuted.

Many pearls were given.

[cyclOps]

I attended the conference. Any questions?

Do you believe Thomas S Monson is a prophet of God and holds all the keys to the Kingdom of God upon the earth?

[Arenera]

To bad Denver is leading people away from the elect. Orson Hyde called in a long time ago.

Why are the people listening to Denver, did they stop going to Christ?

[Rose Garden]

I attended the conference. Any questions?

Yeah. Why didn't you look me up?

[Rose Garden]

I don't know if it was mentioned somewhere, but news of the conference was televised even. People were very excited about that.

[Mark]

A few points:

• Denver prophesied that America will be destroyed by fratricide and genocide. I would imagine this prophecy should make headlines very soon.

• Said more or less that the solar eclipse from Aug 21 signified the withdrawing of the Lord's spirit from the earth due to the wickedness of man.

• Said that hate would increase. Hate and anger will get out of control.

• Said the times of Gentiles has been fulfilled.

• Said to love one another. Even when hated and persecuted.

Many pearls were given.

"Said more or less that the solar eclipse from Aug 21 signified the withdrawing of the Lord's spirit from the earth due to the wickedness of man."

"Said the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled."

This is just laughable. This guy has an over abundance of chutzpah. Is he going to do a Harmston and proclaim to be Joseph Smith incarnated next? In the words of the one and only Mr T..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4FPGJrzzq_I

[drtanner]

President Benson

“The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet. … God’s revelations to Adam did not instruct Noah how to build the ark. Noah needed his own revelation. Therefore, the most important prophet, so far as you and I are concerned, is the one living in our day and age to whom the Lord is currently revealing His will for us. Therefore, the most important reading we can do is any of the words of the prophet … contained each month in our Church magazines. Our marching orders for each six months are found in the general conference addresses, which are printed in the Ensign magazine. … Beware of those who would pit the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.”

[underdog]

I attended the conference. Any questions?

Do you believe Thomas S Monson is a prophet of God and holds all the keys to the Kingdom of God upon the earth?

I sustain him in his duty to become such.

I do see many parallels to Matthew 23 as well. Or try Luke 11:52.

[EdGoble]

Abraham A. Kimball, son of Heber C. Kimball about the confessions of his grandfather Alpheus Cutler, the apostate who formed the Cutlerite Church in Iowa. Account from Abraham A. Kimball's book where he describes the confession of his grandfather:

GRANDFATHER'S CONFESSION AND TESTIMONY—HIS EXHORTATION AND REQUEST—RETURN HOME WITH MY BROTHER ISAAC, THUS FULFILLING MY FATHER'S PREDICTION—THE LESSONS I LEARNED BY MY EXPERIENCE.
AFTER taking a bath I put on my new suit, but was ashamed then to appear before the family, as my surroundings seemed so nice that my old-fashioned suit was made to appear worse than it really was. I therefore decided to remain in the bedroom until I was invited out.
My aunts, Vilate and Adelia, insisted upon my joining the family, and if ever I felt ashamed of myself in the world it was then.
My father came to me in a few minutes and could not refrain from smiling. I suppose it was my clothes that amused him. He immediately requested his wife Adelia to comb my hair, which was to me a severe infliction, as I feared the results. However, this operation was safely passed, proving that my fears were groundless, and the remainder of the day I spent pleasantly, viewing the premises.
Imagine my astonishment when, in the evening, my father called into the room about twenty of his boys and girls and five or six of his wives. After being introduced we spent the evening reviewing my past life.
I learned that my father was quite prepared to find me in such a rough condition, for Lewis Robison, on arriving in the valley ahead of me, had informed him that I was one of the most uncouth boys he ever met in all his travels.
At bedtime father extended to me the privilege of sleeping with the boys, in a new room that he had built. This kindness I appreciated very much, although after retiring, the boys commenced making sport of their "country brother," which caused me to get on the war path, an indulgence I was rather fond of, having been compelled to fight my own way from childhood, through having no father or mother to take my part.
However, father soon put a stop to this, by appearing in his night-clothes and telling the boys he would attend to them if they did not keep quiet. We soon learned to love and respect each other.
All the liberties were extended to me that I needed, but in a few days I became home-sick. Although everybody was very kind to me, I could not help thinking of my old home, for all were strangers to me here.
Father, perceiving this, set me to work, hauling wood, and I soon forgot my troubles, and in the winter I attended school, during which time my father informed me of his desire for me to return to the States for my brother Isaac.
He asked me what I thought of being baptized.
I told him I didn't know.
He replied that I could do just as I pleased, but if I believed in the principles of the gospel he would like me to be baptized before going back. Nothing more was said on the subject for several months, when I was again asked if I had concluded to be baptized.
I told him I had, and he proposed immediately to send for Enoch Reese and have him baptize me.
We then went up City Creek, above the Church blacksmith's shop, where I was baptized by Brother Reese. After returning to the house my father confirmed me, and also ordained me an Elder and set me apart for a mission to the States, for the purpose of bringing my brother Isaac, and thus confirming the blessing pronounced upon me in my infancy.
I was also to seek Orin Rockwell (Porter Rockwell's eldest son), and bring him and as many others as I could induce to come.
I left home for the States on the 16th of April, 1863, in company with my brother Heber and others, with mule and horse teams, and we made the trip to the Missouri River in twenty-one days.
After remaining a few days in Florence, Nebraska, I set out for home on horseback. On arriving at Omaha my horse became very lame, and I left it and started out afoot.
I found my brother Heber at Kanesville, Iowa, where he had gone on business. He bought me a suit of clothes and a pair of shoes, and gave me a few dollars in money.
I left Kanesville about noon, making Glenwood (twenty miles distant) the same day. I stopped at a hotel for the night, and started out at eight o'clock next morning.
I arrived at my old home after dark, having walked fifty miles that day, and my feet were very sore.
My grandfather, grandmother, brother and friends were all glad to see me, and I spent several days in visiting my old resorts.
A few days after my arrival my grandmother and a portion of the family went out visiting. I remained, at grandfather's request, as he was still an invalid through phthisic, etc., and was unable to leave the house.
When alone, he commenced questioning me concerning Utah, asking me also about Brother Schofield and some others of his acquaintance, but I was unable to give much information concerning them.
He asked me if I had seen my father, Heber C. Kimball. I told him I had. He replied that he was glad of it.
He also asked me if I had been baptized, and I told him I had. He again replied that he was glad of it.
He next asked me if I had received my endowments, and, when I informed him that I had, he seemed pleased.
He then said: "I have suffered you to be prejudiced to the extent that you were, and it is now my duty to remove the same.
"You went off without asking my consent, which was all right. I knew that Heber C. Kimball was your father, and always did know it; but did not calculate that it should be known by you.
"I intended that you and Isaac should be the means of my support while I lived.
"You have now been to your father, and that is all right.
"I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, and I know that Brigham Young is his legal successor, and I always did know it. But the trouble with me was I wanted to lead, and could not be led. I have run my race and sealed my doom, and I know what I have got to meet.
"I died once, and was dead for some length of time. My spirit left my body and went to the land of spirits. I saw the crown that I should wear if I remained faithful, and the condemnation I should receive if I did not. I begged to remain, but was informed that I must return and warn the people to repent, as my work on earth was not yet done.
"After my spirit returned to my body, those around discovered the appearance of life. The first words that I spoke were to Sidney Rigdon, who was stooping over me. I called upon him to repent of his sins, or he would be damned."
My grandfather paused here, but continued by saying: "I want you to go back to your father, taking your brother Isaac with you, as I know he is a good man, and remain steadfast to 'Mormonism.'
"Let what may turn up, never yield the point; for it will save and exalt you in the kingdom of God."
He wept like a child after saying this. He then said to me:
"One favor I wish to ask of you, namely, that you will not divulge this confession to those whom I lead while I live."
With this he released me, and I continued my visiting.
My brother was perfectly willing to accompany me, so in a few days we started out for Florence, accompanied by one cousin (Jedediah Anderson), and Charles Cox and two live raccoons, which we brought along as curiosities.
After arriving at Florence we remained a few weeks, preparing to return to Salt Lake and drive teams for our brother Heber.
We arrived in the valley safely, and father was much pleased at our return, and gladly welcomed brother Isaac to his home.
My brother was as well suited as I had previously been, and soon after joined the Church.
We then contentedly settled down with father and remained with him almost to the time of his death, which occurred on the 22nd of June, 1868.
In this manner did I find a loving and kind father, whose character had been most shamefully maligned, and, though I was at one time reluctant to make his acquaintance, yet I have often thanked God since for such an exemplary parent.
I learned by the experience which I have related many lessons that I trust I may profit by as long as I live. I learned how difficult it is to overcome prejudices and false impressions, especially when formed in early youth or childhood.
I learned what a mischievous and dangerous quality ambition is, when not properly controlled. In the case of my grandfather, ambition for worldly honors, for office and position among men, led him to outrage his conscience. It caused him to barter away his claim upon the eternal riches and honor and glory of heaven for a miserable mess of pottage. It caused him to lead a false life. It caused him to make a pretense of believing that which he had a positive knowledge was untrue. It caused him to bring himself under condemnation by deceiving others. It even caused him to mislead his own offspring until he could do so no longer.
I learned something of the misery and sense of loss and remorse of conscience that result from such a course as that which my grandfather pursued, and I hope that his example may ever prove a warning to all who read this sketch. May they avoid such unlawful aspirations as caused his ruin, and live so that they can ever look back with satisfaction upon the past and forward with joy to the future. (Abraham A. Kimball, Gems for the Young Folks [Salt Lake City: Juvenile Instructor Office, 1881], p. 16-18., https://www.gutenberg.org/files/46601/4 ... 6601-h.htm)

[underdog]

A few points:

• Denver prophesied that America will be destroyed by fratricide and genocide. I would imagine this prophecy should make headlines very soon.

• Said more or less that the solar eclipse from Aug 21 signified the withdrawing of the Lord's spirit from the earth due to the wickedness of man.

• Said that hate would increase. Hate and anger will get out of control.

• Said the times of Gentiles has been fulfilled.

• Said to love one another. Even when hated and persecuted.

Many pearls were given.

"Said more or less that the solar eclipse from Aug 21 signified the withdrawing of the Lord's spirit from the earth due to the wickedness of man."

"Said the times of the Gentiles has been fulfilled."

This is just laughable. This guy has an over abundance of chutzpah. Is he going to do a Harmston and proclaim to be Joseph Smith incarnated next? In the words of the one and only Mr T..

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4FPGJrzzq_I

Oh Brother Mark! I love you. I do believe you will come around.

1 And again, I, Alma, having been commanded of God that I should take Amulek and go forth and preach again unto this people, or the people who were in the city of Ammonihah, it came to pass as I began to preach unto them, they began to contend with me, saying:

2 Who art thou? Suppose ye that we shall believe the testimony of one man, although he should preach unto us that the earth should pass away?

3 Now they understood not the words which they spake; for they knew not that the earth should pass away.

4 And they said also: We will not believe thy words if thou shouldst prophesy that this great city should be destroyed in one day.

5 Now they knew not that God could do such marvelous works, for they were a hard-hearted and a stiffnecked people.

6 And they said: Who is God, that sendeth bno more authority than one man among this people, to declare unto them the truth of such great and marvelous things?

Or...

Mos 11:
27 Now when king Noah had heard of the words which Abinadi had spoken unto the people, he was also wroth; and he said: Who is Abinadi, that I and my people should be judged of him, or who is the Lord, that shall bring upon my people such great affliction?

[Mindfields]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

[drtanner]

Hymn #22 We Listen to a Prohpet's Voice

"We listen to a prophet’s voice and hear the Savior too.
With love he bids us do the work the Lord would have us do.
The Savior calls his chosen seer to preach the word of God,
That men might learn to find the path marked by the iron rod.

In ev’ry land, in ev’ry tongue, our prophet will be heard;
How swiftly round the world his voice reveals the gospel word!
The sacred message that he brings will witness and agree
With ev’ry prophet called of God throughout earth’s history.

Hosanna! Let our praise ascend unto the Savior’s throne;
Rejoice! The prophet has confirmed that by Him we are known.
Attend, ye earth! The prophet speaks; come listen and obey.
He is the man who holds the keys of priesthood pow’r today."

What is the prophets message? See below for the first presidency message. Coincidence?

A few years ago, I was sitting in the room of the Salt Lake Temple where the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles meet once a week. I gazed up at the wall which faces the First Presidency, and there I observed portraits of each of the Presidents of the Church.

As I gazed at them, my predecessors—from the Prophet Joseph Smith (1805–44) to President Gordon B. Hinckley (1910–2008)—I thought, “How grateful I am for the guidance of each one.”

These are great men who never wavered, never faltered, and never failed. These are men of God. As I think of the modern-day prophets I have known and loved, I recall their lives, their attributes, and their inspired teachings.

President Heber J. Grant (1856–1945) was President of the Church when I was born. As I contemplate his life and teachings, I believe a trait President Grant always exemplified was that of persistence—persistence in those things which are good and noble.

President George Albert Smith (1870–1951) was President of the Church during the time I served as bishop of my ward in Salt Lake City. He observed that there is a great tug-of-war going on between the Lord and the adversary. “If you will stay on the Lord’s side of the line,” he taught, “you will be under his influence and will have no desire to do wrong.”1

I was called to serve as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve in 1963 by President David O. McKay (1873–1970). He taught consideration for others by the way he lived his life. “True Christianity,” he said, “is love in action.”2

President Joseph Fielding Smith (1876–1972), one of the Church’s most prolific writers, had as a guiding principle in his life gospel scholarship. He read the scriptures unceasingly and was as familiar with the teachings and doctrines found within their pages as anyone I have ever known.

President Harold B. Lee (1899–1973) served as my stake president when I was a boy. A favorite quotation of his was “Stand ye in holy places, and be not moved.”3 He encouraged the Saints to be in tune with, and responsive to, the whisperings of the Holy Ghost.

I believe a guiding principle in the life of President Spencer W. Kimball (1895–1985) would be dedication. He was completely, unequivocally dedicated to the Lord. He was also dedicated to living the gospel.

When President Ezra Taft Benson (1899–1994) became President of the Church, he called me to serve as his Second Counselor in the First Presidency. Love was his guiding principle, which is embodied in his favorite quotation, spoken by the Savior: “What manner of men ought ye to be? Verily I say unto you, even as I am.”4

President Howard W. Hunter (1907–95) was one who always looked for the best in others. Ever was he courteous; ever was he humble. It was my privilege to serve as his Second Counselor.

President Gordon B. Hinckley taught us to do our best. He bore powerful testimony of the Savior and His mission. He taught us with love. Serving as his First Counselor was an honor and a blessing for me.

The Savior sends prophets because He loves us. During general conference this October, the General Authorities of the Church will again have the privilege of sharing His word. We approach this responsibility with great solemnity and humility.

How blessed we are that the restored Church of Jesus Christ is upon the earth and that the Church is founded upon the rock of revelation. Continuous revelation is the very lifeblood of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

May we prepare to receive the personal revelation that comes in abundance during general conference. May our hearts be filled with deep determination as we raise our hands to sustain living prophets and apostles. May we be enlightened, uplifted, comforted, and strengthened as we listen to their messages. And may we be ready to recommit ourselves to the Lord Jesus Christ—His gospel and His work—and to live with renewed resolve in keeping His commandments and carrying out His will.

[Frederick]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

That's it. It's easy to see how fooled the Snufferites have been, but how easy would it be to convince TBM's that they too have been fooled?

Interestingly, if one looks closely at how the Snufferites are behaving, one can see the exact same things in the LDS church. They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

[Joel]

There is a general pattern to it

http://www.howcultswork.com/

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 90#p582190

regarding religion, groups forming for their special brand of supernatural/ superstitious thinking purity is the human story

seems this is what happens in people's brains

List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement

cult behavior goes beyond the borders of religion too

[Robin Hood]

Orson Hyde's revelation on James Strang:

In my meditations, this morning, the Spirit of the Lord came upon me, and I was moved to write: and being grieved in my spirit on account of false pretenses by evil designing persons to gain power, and lead away the flock of God; It whispered me and said:

Evil men, ambitious of power, must needs arise among you, and they shall be led by their own self-will and not by me. Yet they are instruments in my hands, and are permitted to try my people, and to collect from among them those who are not the elect, and such as are unworthy of eternal life. Grieve not after them, neither mourn nor be alarmed. My people know my voice and also the voice of my spirit, and a stranger they will not follow, therefore such as follow strangers are not my people. Behold James J. Strang hath cursed my people by his own spirit and not by mine. Never at any time have I appointed that wicked man to lead my people, neither by my own voice, nor by the voice of my servant Joseph Smith, neither by the voice of mine angel: but he hath sought to deceive and Satan helpeth him; but before of old was he one that was ordained to gather the tares of the field, and mine angels have chosen him to do itbecause he was a wicked man, even as Judas was chosen to betray his Lord. But his spirit and ambition shall soon fail him, and then shall he be called to judgment and receive that portion which is his mete, and his treacherous followers, who have forsaken the counsel of their brethren and turned from the covenants of their God, and have cast asunder the tenderest ties, must drink from a bitter cup.

Let no man who putteth his trust in me be troubled about his rights. The worthy shall have their rights and no power can prevent it, for I will give them the hearts of my people, and their voice is my voice, even as my voice is the voice of my father; and what they bind on earth I will bind in heaven. But the unworthy have no rights except these, repentance or condemnation. If they act upon the former, behold they are justified, but if not, they must suffer the consequences of the latter.

By this you may know the unworthy among my people: for whomsoever they reject, the same are rejected of me. And woe to such as shall follow him who hath been rejected by my people. If my people sin I will correct and chasten them because I love them, yet I will not reject them, neither give my kingdom to other people, for behold the end draweth nigh, and judgement will I pour out upon your oppressors and upon those who accuse you to hide their own iniquity and their shame, and to get power for unholy purposes and not for the building up of my kingdom. Let such beware lest they fall by the hand of the destroyer, whose arrows are plague and pestilence, before their designs are accomplished.

Let my saints gather up with all consistent speed and remove westward, except such as are counselled to tarry and must needs remain to settle their business according to the counsel of my servant JOSEPH SMITH, in the day that he was with you in the flesh, and also to the counsel of my servants, the Twelve whom I have chosen, and who have abode in me.

Let there be no more disputes or contentions among you about doctrine or principle, neither who shall be greatest, but hearken to those things which I have spoken unto you, and which have before been given and you shall rest in my kingdom, and have glory and honour for ever and ever--Yea! Saith the Spirit, and the Spirit is truth, and the truth abideth for ever: Amen. ("He that hath ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the Churches," Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star 7 (15 May 1846):157-58, emphasis added.)

Brigham Young:

Brother John referred to some persons receiving revelations. I say to such persons, Go ahead, and get all the revelations you can. If brother Joseph visits you every night, go ahead, and tell him to bring brother Hyrum, father Smith, Don Carlos Smith, St. Paul, Peter, James, and John, and Jesus Christ, if you can induce him to do so. But I could almost lay my hand on that Bible and swear that the man or woman who gets such revelations has been guilty of adultery, or of theft, or has been rebellious and apostatized in feelings, but has come back again, and now professes to have such revelations. Hell is full of such revelations; and I could almost testify that a man or woman who receives them has been guilty of some outrageous crime. I have had men come to me and tell the wonderful great dreams and visions which they have, when those very persons have apostatized heretofore, have denied their God and their religion; and I knew it. Many come to me and tell me what wonderful visions they have—that their minds are open to eternal things—that they can see visions of eternity open before them and understand all about this kingdom—many of whom have at some time been guilty of betraying their brethren, or committing some atrocious crime. I never notice them much. I sit and hear them talk about their wonderful knowledge, but it passes in and out of my ears like the sound of the wind. It is for me to see to this kingdom, that it is built up, and to preserve the Saints from the grasp of the enemy. The visions of the class I have mentioned are nothing to me. They may exhibit their great knowledge before me; but when they have done, it is all gone from me.
Some are very anxious that I should have visions. I have all that the Lord gives to me; and all that he keeps back he may; for that is no concern of mine. We are on the old ship Zion; and if God is not at the helm, the old ship will wreck and go to the Devil. As for my taking charge of the kingdom of God on the earth, exclusively and independently of direction from heaven, I shall not do any such thing. If the Lord does not direct the old ship and act as captain and pilot, it will go to destruction, and I care not how quick.
He is at the helm, and will stay there. If you and I will bring our feelings to the point I have just spoken of, he will continue to guide the welfare of Zion and all its rights. (JD 5:351-352)

Excellent post.

[Arenera]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

That's it. It's easy to see how fooled the Snufferites have been, but how easy would it be to convince TBM's that they too have been fooled?

Interestingly, if one looks closely at how the Snufferites are behaving, one can see the exact same things in the LDS church. They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

The stone cut without hands continues to roll forward. There will always be those who fight, some even going to Egyptian theaters. They will lose.

[Hidingbehindmyhandle]

There is absolutely a different spirit coming from Denver Snuffer than what is present in Joseph Smiths teachings. It is as night and day. Can't you all discern this??? The Holy Ghost testifies to me that Denver is no prophet. His followers might claim, "well look at what is obvious in what he says of some basic universal truths, such as speaking against contention", to which I reply, anyone can state and applaud such things, the trouble comes in clothing pernicious falsehoods in and throughout what is obviously true. I can goto a nice restaurant and order a nice nutritious meal but what does that whole meal become when someone comes over and sprinkles a bunch of sand onto it before I eat it?

I'm running into people on this forum in other threads that treat Joseph Smith's, Brigham Young's, et al, words the same way as Denver Snuffer's words should be!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Chris]

O those poor stupid people. How can they fall for something so stupid. Show's just how little they understood of the gospel to fall for such crap.

[Older/wiser?]

There is a lesson to be learned here, not that these people are stupid or less wise than you or I , but how even the very elect can be deceived. Recall Moses 1:11-16 Moses has the experience (key) with the Lord, then shortly Satan appears . Moses could discern the difference, had he no comparison he might have been deceived. The elect can be deceived. My observation is that some believe in there pride they are above being deceived. The spirit of discernment should be humbly sought. The story of Brigham and false accusations being made towards him teach me of his humility, as he said ,"Joseph what would you have me do",. That was a response of honest humility empty of pride.

[underdog]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

That's it. It's easy to see how fooled the Snufferites have been, but how easy would it be to convince TBM's that they too have been fooled?

Interestingly, if one looks closely at how the Snufferites are behaving, one can see the exact same things in the LDS church. They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

Frederick said:

They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

The out-in-left-field comments with no basis in reality here are staggering. The above quote needs a rebuttal.

LDS Church:

1) The actual name is Corporation of the President of the Church of JC of LDS. All assets belong to the president of the Church, under the Corporation Sole structure that has been set up.
2) The hierarchy is prominently published (twice a year in the Ensign). There's no doubt who the "authorities" are.
3) They are paid
4) They sit in the chief seats.
5) Called to serve by men.
6) Succession follows the corporation charter. The oldest serving apostle automatically assumes the role of president (leader of corporation).
7) There has been gross censorship by the Brethren (the attempted censorship and excommunication of Denver Snuffer being a prime example). This type of suppression is characteristic of the autocratic Catholic Church.
8) Prophet worshipping? The Brethren absolutely encourage this in many ways (the corporate organization chart already mentioned, the "keys" they say they hold, there are many examples, but I'll list the latest verifiable thing: they announced just a couple weeks ago that they REQUIRE member in Priesthood and Relief Society meetings to study General Conference talks during the 3rd period. Holy cow! Sacrament meetings are already "regurgitalks" and now the SAME talks will be the required content for the 3rd period classes. The priestcraft is palpable.
9) Critical thought? If you bring up the key points of interest the Remnant is teaching (you know, things like what true "faith" is, what true "repentance" is, what "baptism" (incl water and fire) is, what "coming unto Christ" means, what "the doctrine of Christ" is, what "salvation" means, what "exaltation" is, what are the characteristics of "true messengers", the importance of a "covenant", who the Gentiles are, the purpose of a Temple, what the Holy Spirit of Promise is, what's calling and election, what's the Second Comforter, what is the "times of the Gentiles", what did the Lord mean when He said the Church was under "condemnation", what is Zion, etc., etc. If you bring up basic doctrinal stuff like this up in Church and it CHALLENGES mainstream notions taught by the Brethren, you are quickly branded as a heretic, if not shown the door by your local priesthood leaders by threats of excommunication or literally to "not come back". In an atmosphere like this, do you really think critical thought can remotely exist?

The Remnant Movement (how it compares to the above):

1) No corporation. There's nothing to incorporate. Any tithing collected goes to the poor. There is a temple fund as well.
2) There is Denver Snuffer is the voice of the Lord. It's a completely "flat" body of believers. No hierarchy other than the Lord and His servant, David. Think King Benjamin (Mosiah 2:11-16).
3) Denver doesn't get paid.
4) All are equals.
5) God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Denver and gave him an assignment. Denver declares God by His own voice has "sent" him, just has Joseph or any other prophet is "sent".
6) Any succession will have to be handled by God himself. God "chooses". Many are called, but few are chosen.
7) There is zero censorship. But there is order. Denver must obviously approve the words attributed to him. Otherwise, you would have people intentionally or unintentionally speaking for him and causing great confusion.
8) Denver claims to be a prophet, but so did Moses, so did Lehi so did Nephi, Alma, Helaman, Mormon, Moroni and Joseph Smith. Denver quickly rebukes those who would call themselves "Snufferites." He says follow no man, but follow the Lord. Nevertheless, calling a spade a spade, he does testify that he is delivering a message from Jesus Christ. "Whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it is the same."
9) I find there is nothing but critical thought in the remnant. Of course, it is difficult to let go of many false LDS traditions, like blindly "follow the prophet", so I think it's fair to say many could want to depend on the prophet instead of thinking on their own, but by and large, the defining characteristic of the Remnant is THINKING FOR YOURSELF. Go to God DIRECTLY, like Joseph did. Thinking "outside the box" is absolutely a hallmark of the movement. So to say there's no critical thought in the movement is outlandishly inaccurate.

Thank you.

[Finrock]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

That's it. It's easy to see how fooled the Snufferites have been, but how easy would it be to convince TBM's that they too have been fooled?

Interestingly, if one looks closely at how the Snufferites are behaving, one can see the exact same things in the LDS church. They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

Frederick said:

They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

The out-in-left-field comments with no basis in reality here are staggering. The above quote needs a rebuttal.

LDS Church:

1) The actual name is Corporation of the President of the Church of JC of LDS. All assets belong to the president of the Church, under the Corporation Sole structure that has been set up.
2) The hierarchy is prominently published (twice a year in the Ensign). There's no doubt who the "authorities" are.
3) They are paid
4) They sit in the chief seats.
5) Called to serve by men.
6) Succession follows the corporation charter. The oldest serving apostle automatically assumes the role of president (leader of corporation).
7) There has been gross censorship by the Brethren (the attempted censorship and excommunication of Denver Snuffer being a prime example). This type of suppression is characteristic of the autocratic Catholic Church.
8) Prophet worshipping? The Brethren absolutely encourage this in many ways (the corporate organization chart already mentioned, the "keys" they say they hold, there are many examples, but I'll list the latest verifiable thing: they announced just a couple weeks ago that they REQUIRE member in Priesthood and Relief Society meetings to study General Conference talks during the 3rd period. Holy cow! Sacrament meetings are already "regurgitalks" and now the SAME talks will be the required content for the 3rd period classes. The priestcraft is palpable.
9) Critical thought? If you bring up the key points of interest the Remnant is teaching (you know, things like what true "faith" is, what true "repentance" is, what "baptism" (incl water and fire) is, what "coming unto Christ" means, what "the doctrine of Christ" is, what "salvation" means, what "exaltation" is, what are the characteristics of "true messengers", the importance of a "covenant", who the Gentiles are, the purpose of a Temple, what the Holy Spirit of Promise is, what's calling and election, what's the Second Comforter, what is the "times of the Gentiles", what did the Lord mean when He said the Church was under "condemnation", what is Zion, etc., etc. If you bring up basic doctrinal stuff like this up in Church and it CHALLENGES mainstream notions taught by the Brethren, you are quickly branded as a heretic, if not shown the door by your local priesthood leaders by threats of excommunication or literally to "not come back". In an atmosphere like this, do you really think critical thought can remotely exist?

The Remnant Movement (how it compares to the above):

1) No corporation. There's nothing to incorporate. Any tithing collected goes to the poor. There is a temple fund as well.
2) There is Denver Snuffer is the voice of the Lord. It's a completely "flat" body of believers. No hierarchy other than the Lord and His servant, David. Think King Benjamin (Mosiah 2:11-16).
3) Denver doesn't get paid.
4) All are equals.
5) God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Denver and gave him an assignment. Denver declares God by His own voice has "sent" him, just has Joseph or any other prophet is "sent".
6) Any succession will have to be handled by God himself. God "chooses". Many are called, but few are chosen.
7) There is zero censorship. But there is order. Denver must obviously approve the words attributed to him. Otherwise, you would have people intentionally or unintentionally speaking for him and causing great confusion.
8) Denver claims to be a prophet, but so did Moses, so did Lehi so did Nephi, Alma, Helaman, Mormon, Moroni and Joseph Smith. Denver quickly rebukes those who would call themselves "Snufferites." He says follow no man, but follow the Lord. Nevertheless, calling a spade a spade, he does testify that he is delivering a message from Jesus Christ. "Whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it is the same."
9) I find there is nothing but critical thought in the remnant. Of course, it is difficult to let go of many false LDS traditions, like blindly "follow the prophet", so I think it's fair to say many could want to depend on the prophet instead of thinking on their own, but by and large, the defining characteristic of the Remnant is THINKING FOR YOURSELF. Go to God DIRECTLY, like Joseph did. Thinking "outside the box" is absolutely a hallmark of the movement. So to say there's no critical thought in the movement is outlandishly inaccurate.

Thank you.

Your points on LDS Church:

1. So?
2. Snuffer's religion is no different. Rhetoric aside, there is no doubt who the authority is (Denver Snuffer). Not to mention, it is too early to make any definitive statement regarding this anyways insofar as Snuffer's religion is concerned. It seems to me that the authority structure of his church is in development and in time people will know who the authorities are.
3. Did Snuffer get paid for his books/lectures/seminars? There is no personal benefit to being regarded and honored and revered as the "mouthpiece of God on earth"?
4. How are ALL equals in the Snuffer movement?
5. How do you know they are called to serve by men? This contention is a prejudicial assumption.
6. So? Why can't this be inspired? What absolutely forbids it?
7. Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't there censorship in the John Doe case? Can you contradict Denver Snuffer? But, are there no errors, mistakes, foibles, and wrong doing being done in your group? Everyone in your group always acts in accordance with eternal principle?
8. No different than the LDS. Functionally equivalent.
9. Prejudicial assumptions and sociocentric loyalty.

-Finrock

[Arenera]

There is a huge difference. The LDS church has the Mormon Tabernacle Choir.

[underdog]

The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also. -Mark Twain

It's easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain

That's it. It's easy to see how fooled the Snufferites have been, but how easy would it be to convince TBM's that they too have been fooled?

Interestingly, if one looks closely at how the Snufferites are behaving, one can see the exact same things in the LDS church. They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

Frederick said:

They essentially created another LDS church, with all of the prophet worshipping and suppression of critical thought that goes along with it.

The out-in-left-field comments with no basis in reality here are staggering. The above quote needs a rebuttal.

LDS Church:

1) The actual name is Corporation of the President of the Church of JC of LDS. All assets belong to the president of the Church, under the Corporation Sole structure that has been set up.
2) The hierarchy is prominently published (twice a year in the Ensign). There's no doubt who the "authorities" are.
3) They are paid
4) They sit in the chief seats.
5) Called to serve by men.
6) Succession follows the corporation charter. The oldest serving apostle automatically assumes the role of president (leader of corporation).
7) There has been gross censorship by the Brethren (the attempted censorship and excommunication of Denver Snuffer being a prime example). This type of suppression is characteristic of the autocratic Catholic Church.
8) Prophet worshipping? The Brethren absolutely encourage this in many ways (the corporate organization chart already mentioned, the "keys" they say they hold, there are many examples, but I'll list the latest verifiable thing: they announced just a couple weeks ago that they REQUIRE member in Priesthood and Relief Society meetings to study General Conference talks during the 3rd period. Holy cow! Sacrament meetings are already "regurgitalks" and now the SAME talks will be the required content for the 3rd period classes. The priestcraft is palpable.
9) Critical thought? If you bring up the key points of interest the Remnant is teaching (you know, things like what true "faith" is, what true "repentance" is, what "baptism" (incl water and fire) is, what "coming unto Christ" means, what "the doctrine of Christ" is, what "salvation" means, what "exaltation" is, what are the characteristics of "true messengers", the importance of a "covenant", who the Gentiles are, the purpose of a Temple, what the Holy Spirit of Promise is, what's calling and election, what's the Second Comforter, what is the "times of the Gentiles", what did the Lord mean when He said the Church was under "condemnation", what is Zion, etc., etc. If you bring up basic doctrinal stuff like this up in Church and it CHALLENGES mainstream notions taught by the Brethren, you are quickly branded as a heretic, if not shown the door by your local priesthood leaders by threats of excommunication or literally to "not come back". In an atmosphere like this, do you really think critical thought can remotely exist?

The Remnant Movement (how it compares to the above):

1) No corporation. There's nothing to incorporate. Any tithing collected goes to the poor. There is a temple fund as well.
2) There is Denver Snuffer is the voice of the Lord. It's a completely "flat" body of believers. No hierarchy other than the Lord and His servant, David. Think King Benjamin (Mosiah 2:11-16).
3) Denver doesn't get paid.
4) All are equals.
5) God the Father and Jesus Christ appeared to Denver and gave him an assignment. Denver declares God by His own voice has "sent" him, just has Joseph or any other prophet is "sent".
6) Any succession will have to be handled by God himself. God "chooses". Many are called, but few are chosen.
7) There is zero censorship. But there is order. Denver must obviously approve the words attributed to him. Otherwise, you would have people intentionally or unintentionally speaking for him and causing great confusion.
8) Denver claims to be a prophet, but so did Moses, so did Lehi so did Nephi, Alma, Helaman, Mormon, Moroni and Joseph Smith. Denver quickly rebukes those who would call themselves "Snufferites." He says follow no man, but follow the Lord. Nevertheless, calling a spade a spade, he does testify that he is delivering a message from Jesus Christ. "Whether by mine own voice or the voice of my servants, it is the same."
9) I find there is nothing but critical thought in the remnant. Of course, it is difficult to let go of many false LDS traditions, like blindly "follow the prophet", so I think it's fair to say many could want to depend on the prophet instead of thinking on their own, but by and large, the defining characteristic of the Remnant is THINKING FOR YOURSELF. Go to God DIRECTLY, like Joseph did. Thinking "outside the box" is absolutely a hallmark of the movement. So to say there's no critical thought in the movement is outlandishly inaccurate.

Thank you.

Your points on LDS Church:

1. So? The fact the Church is organized as a Corporate Sole is not known by hardly anybody. The fact you're asking "so what" to an astounding cover-up of monumental proportions tells us a lot about you. In my opinion, a normal reaction by a member upon learning of this shocking fact would be anywhere between righteous indignation to utter disbelief (but tell me more).
2. Snuffer's religion is no different. Rhetoric aside, there is no doubt who the authority is (Denver Snuffer). Not to mention, it is too early to make any definitive statement regarding this anyways insofar as Snuffer's religion is concerned. It seems to me that the authority structure of his church is in development and in time people will know who the authorities are.
3. Did Snuffer get paid for his books/lectures/seminars? There is no personal benefit to being regarded and honored and revered as the "mouthpiece of God on earth"? He donates all proceeds to charity. He would probably say the honor you speak of is a terrible temptation to practice priestcraft. He is in a no-win situation. He brings light to the world, as commanded, and then is supposed to not be regarded as light.
He is in literally a no-win situation. All he can do is eschew such fame and rebuke those who would heap praise on him. I see he has little patience for those who do call him Snufferites.
4. How are ALL equals in the Snuffer movement? There is no hierarchy. There is no bishop or stake president or RS President, etc. See Mosiah 2:11-16,
5. How do you know they are called to serve by men? This contention is a prejudicial assumption. They themselves do NOT testify that God has called them as Denver testifies God has called him. By their own (lack of) testimony we know they are not called literally by God.
6. So? Why can't this be inspired? What absolutely forbids it? There is no scriptural mandate where God ordered it this way.
7. Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't there censorship in the John Doe case? Denver wasn't on the council. It was a council of women. That first council made many procedural mistakes. Several women testified they failed, but got it right ultimately. Can you contradict Denver Snuffer? Sure. He welcomes critical thought. He challenges us to challenge him. But, are there no errors, mistakes, foibles, and wrong doing being done in your group? Everyone in your group always acts in accordance with eternal principle? I don't have a fellowship. However, if I was part of one, no doubt there would be errors, mistakes, foibles, etc.
8. No different than the LDS. Functionally equivalent. You are speaking truly if referring to people who would idolize a prophet. I was referring to how the Brethren respond to such idolatry. Do they encourage it, or try to nip it in the bud? Clearly, the Brethren encourage it, and in fact throw fire on it. The entire culture is centered upon them. I have a perfect example of how they do this.
9. Prejudicial assumptions and sociocentric loyalty. Countless excommunications of those who are "critically thinking" are not "prejudicial assumptions."

-Finrock

I have some other work to do, but real quick, see my above comments in blue: