Denver’s crux: “The Last Time”

[Jesef]

First, why is this topic important, why is this a “crux” (for Denver & his movement)? Because if “last time” means “final time”, then there would be absolutely no need for a reboot like the one Denver is leading. “Final time” implies continuation until the end. If “last time” means “most recent time” as Denver teaches/asserts, then the door is wide open for as many tries as necessary.

Denver’s teachings/precepts on the meaning of “the last time” in the scriptures, particularly the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants:

October 31, 2012
http://denversnuffer.com/category/keys/

On the question of “the last time,” verse 5 helps with the meaning:
“And all they who receive the oracles of God, let them beware how they hold them least they are accounted as a light thing, and are brought under condemnation thereby, and stumble and fall when the storms descend, and the winds blow, and the rains descend, and beat upon their house.” (D&C 90: 5.) If we can “stumble and fall,” it suggests we can lose what we were given. If we can lose it, then it can be returned. That would mean “last time” in verse 2 is referring to the “latest,” much like D&C 76: 22, where “last of all” means the “most current” or the “latest” testimony. It doesn’t mean that there will never be another person with a testimony of Christ.

January 17, 2014
http://denversnuffer.com/2014/01/connec ... th-heaven/

The Lord’s behavior was (and still is) uncontrollable by institutional constraint. That is a very hard thing for some good people to comprehend. After all, in a revelation, the Lord said the restoration through Joseph Smith was the “last time” he would be giving in the “last days.” (D&C 112: 30.) But, then again, the same Lord, speaking through the same prophet in another transcript from heaven itself, used the word “last” to mean “most current” or “latest” rather than precluding another. (D&C 76: 22.) And we confront the Lord’s word usage of “Endless” and “Eternal” as proper nouns, meaning “God’s” rather than an adjective meaning “forever.”

Snuffer, Denver. Preserving the Restoration (Kindle Locations 10613-10619). Mill Creek Press. Kindle Edition, Copyright © 2015 by Denver C. Snuffer, Jr.

[1298] Do not be misled by the language of revelations about the restoration through Joseph being “the last.” See, e.g., D&C 90:2: “kingdom coming forth for the last time”; D&C 112:30: “ this priesthood given, for the last days and for the last time, in the which is the dispensation of the fullness of times”; see also 24:19; 27:13; 33:3; 95:4. These references should be understood as “most recent”—as in the same language of D&C 76:22: “this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of Him: That He lives!” Just as this language does not mean there will never be a testimony of Christ after February 1832—only that theirs was the latest—likewise the other use of  “last” in the revelations means “most recent.”

So, it is clear, that his teaching on this subject hinges on the interpretation of “last” being “most recent”, not “last” as in “final”. He has probably taught this in more places, but these three citations should suffice.

I’ll first point out that his reference to D&C 76 “last of all” may have the same word “last” in it, but it is not very similar to the more particular phrase “the last time” or “for the last time” and context really does matter. “Last of all” could mean “most recent of all” but it could also mean “(Our) last of all (of this kind)” of testimony (which Joseph & Sidney were giving, Vision of the Degrees of Glory). In any case, it does not have very good bearing on the phrase “for the last time” which we will be considering in several passages in context. “For the most recent time”, I’ll also point out, seems completely nonsensical, and even more so in context, as we will obviously see.

Dictionary:

last 1 |last|
adjective [attributive]
1 coming after all others in time or order; final: they caught the last bus.
• met with or encountered after any others: the last house in the village.
• the lowest in importance or rank: finishing in last place | [as complement] : he came last in the race.
• (the last) the least likely or suitable: addicts are often the last people to face up to their problems | the last thing she needed was a husband.
2 most recent in time; latest: last year | [postpositive] : your letter of Sunday last.
• immediately preceding in order; previous in a sequence or enumeration: their last album | this last point is critical.
3 only remaining: it's our last hope.

2 of the 3 meanings fundamentally mean “final” - context must decide if “most recent” makes any sense.

I’m actually going to quote from the Restoration/Remnant edition of the scriptures because they have painstakingly tried to go back to the Joseph Smith Papers and only use the original written revelations, not the edited/published ones (which they claim were altered by persons other than JS), as well as the closest to original version of the Book of Mormon (same reasons).

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/Search

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/dc/se ... ast%20time

Section 67 [LE: 43, KE: 14]
And again, the Lord shall utter His voice out of heaven saying, Hearken O ye nations of the earth and hear the words of that God who made you: O ye nations of the earth, how often would I have gathered you as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, but ye would not? How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgments, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor and the riches of Eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not? Behold the day has come when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full.

Behold verily I say unto you that these are the words of the Lord your God, wherefore labor ye, labor ye in my vineyard for the last time, for the last time call ye upon the inhabitants of the Earth, for in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment. And my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on Earth, for the great Millennial which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants shall come, for Satan shall be bound. And when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the Earth, and he that liveth in righteousness shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and the Earth shall pass away so as by fire. And the wicked shall go away into unquenchable fire, and their end no man knoweth on Earth, nor ever shall know until they come before me in judgment. Hearken ye to these words. Behold I am Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world. Treasure these things up in your hearts and let the solemnities of eternity rest upon your minds. Be sober. Keep all the commandments.

Even so Amen.

Hmm, sounds like He’s talking about the final time, end of the world here. Substitute “most recent time” and “final time”, which one actually makes sense? “Labor in my vineyard for the most recent time, for the most recent time call ye upon the inhabitants of the Earth…” It turns the passage into nonsense. So, in context, first passage most definitely means “final time” - score one for the 1st meaning of “last” from the dictionary. Score -1 for Denver Snuffer’s teaching/interpretation.

I don’t want the OP to be too long, so I will follow up with many other “last time” scripture passages from both the Book of Mormon, particularly Jacob 5 and the Doctrine & Covenants, which correlate very well. You’ll notice in this first D&C passage, it makes reference to hen gathering chickens just like 3 Nephi 9-10.

[ajax]

idk, considering God admits to messing with words, Endless/Eternal, "that is might work upon the hearts of the children of men", in other words, stress us out, just for kicks, er I mean his glory, I wouldn't put it past Him.

Why couldn't "last time" include fits and starts?

[Jesef]

Anything could mean everything or nothing at all, I guess. Words could be meaningless.

[ajax]

Since he calls himself Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, maybe he is referencing himself.

[ajax]

Anything could mean everything or nothing at all, I guess. Words could be meaningless.

When God throws a whopper like that, apparently so. "Ha! that's not what I really meant!"

[SmallFarm]

Here's what happens every time.
God speaks. Man interprets with varying degrees of success, all of them falling short.
This is why a personal relationship with Christ through His Holy Spirit is essential.

[Jesef]

2nd set of passages with "last time":

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/bofm/ ... ast%20time

The Book of Jacob, Chapter 3 (LDS Jacob 5)
And it came to pass that they took from the natural tree which had become wild, and grafted in unto the natural trees which also had become wild. And they also took of the natural trees which had become wild and grafted into their mother tree. And the Lord of the vineyard said unto the servant, Pluck not the wild branches from the trees, save it be those which are most bitter, and in them, ye shall graft according to that which I have said. And we will nourish again the trees of the vineyard, and we will trim up the branches thereof, and we will pluck from the trees those branches which are ripened that must perish and cast them into the fire. And this I do that perhaps the roots thereof may take strength because of their goodness and because of the change of the branches, that the good may overcome the evil, and because that I have preserved the natural branches and the roots thereof, and that I have grafted in the natural branches again into their mother tree and have preserved the roots of their mother tree, that perhaps the trees of my vineyard may bring forth again good fruit, and that I may have joy again in the fruit of my vineyard, and perhaps that I may rejoice exceedingly that I have preserved the roots and the branches of the first fruit. Wherefore, go to, and call servants, that we may labor diligently with our mights in the vineyard, that we may prepare the way, that I may bring forth again the natural fruit, which natural fruit is good, and the most precious above all other fruit. Wherefore, let us go to and labor with our mights this last time, for behold the end draweth nigh, and this is for the last time that I shall prune my vineyard. Graft in the branches. Begin at the last, that they may be first and that the first may be last, and dig about the trees, both old and young, the first and the last, and the last and the first, that all may be nourished once again for the last time. Wherefore, dig about them and prune them, and dung them once more for the last time, for the end draweth nigh. And if it so be that these last grafts shall grow and bring forth the natural fruit, then shall ye prepare the way for them that they may grow. And as they begin to grow, ye shall clear away the branches which bring forth bitter fruit, according to the strength of the good and the size thereof. And ye shall not clear away the bad thereof all at once, lest the roots thereof should be too strong for the graft, and the graft thereof shall perish, and I lose the trees of my vineyard. For it grieveth me that I should lose the trees of my vineyard. Wherefore, ye shall clear away the bad according as the good shall grow, that the root and the top may be equal in strength until the good shall overcome the bad and the bad be hewn down and cast into the fire, that they cumber not the ground of my vineyard. And thus will I sweep away the bad out of my vineyard. And the branches of the natural tree will I graft in again into the natural tree, and the branches of the natural tree will I graft into the natural branches of the tree, and thus will I bring them together again, that they shall bring forth the natural fruit, and they shall be one. And the bad shall be cast away, yea, even out of all the land of my vineyard, for behold, only this once will I prune my vineyard.

And it came to pass that the Lord of the vineyard sent his servant, and the servant went and did as the Lord had commanded him and brought other servants, and they were few. And the Lord of the vineyard said unto them, Go to and labor in the vineyard with your mights. For behold, this is the last time that I shall nourish my vineyard, for the end is nigh at hand and the season speedily cometh. And if ye labor with your mights with me, ye shall have joy in the fruit which I shall lay up unto myself against the time which will soon come.

And it came to pass that the servants did go and labor with their mights, and the Lord of the vineyard labored also with them. And they did obey the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard in all things. And there began to be the natural fruit again in the vineyard. And the natural branches began to grow and thrive exceedingly, and the wild branches began to be plucked off and to be cast away; and they did keep the root and the top thereof equal, according to the strength thereof. And thus they labored with all diligence, according to the commandments of the Lord of the vineyard, even until the bad had been cast away out of the vineyard, and the Lord had preserved unto himself, that the trees had become again the natural fruit. And they became like unto one body, and the fruit were equal. And the Lord of the vineyard had preserved unto himself the natural fruit, which was most precious unto him from the beginning.

And it came to pass that when the Lord of the vineyard saw that his fruit was good and that his vineyard was no more corrupt, he called up his servants and said unto them, Behold, for this last time have we nourished my vineyard. And thou beholdest that I have done according to my will, and I have preserved the natural fruit, that it is good, even like as it was in the beginning. And blessed art thou, for because ye have been diligent in laboring with me in my vineyard, and have kept my commandments, and have brought unto me again the natural fruit, that my vineyard is no more corrupted and the bad is cast away, behold, ye shall have joy with me, because of the fruit of my vineyard. For behold, for a long time will I lay up of the fruit of my vineyard unto mine own self against the season which speedily cometh. And for the last time have I nourished my vineyard, and pruned it, and dug about it, and dunged it. Wherefore, I will lay up unto mine own self of the fruit for a long time, according to that which I have spoken. And when the time cometh that evil fruit shall again come into my vineyard, then will I cause the good and the bad to be gathered. And the good will I preserve unto myself and the bad will I cast away into its own place. And then cometh the season and the end, and my vineyard will I cause to be burned with fire.

Just read it. Clearly there is continuity. Clearly "last time" and "only this once" mean "final", in context to "the end", not "most recent" - the passages and the continuity of the narrative become nonsensical when read with the meaning "most recent time". As will be seen in further quotations from the D&C given through Joseph Smith, he and his brethren are the ones being referenced as "servant" and "servants", too.

[Jesef]

Alpha (first/beginning letter of Greek alphabet), Omega (last/final/ending letter of Greek alphabet) "First and the Last" - as also "Beginning and End" - as in these Jacob 5 passages - means "initial and final", not "arbitrarily earlier and later, or more recent"

[Jesef]

But feel free to twist every word/phrase meaning into arbitrary and meaningless nonsense. These are real contributions to the discussion here.

[Finrock]

idk, considering God admits to messing with words, Endless/Eternal, "that is might work upon the hearts of the children of men", in other words, stress us out, just for kicks, er I mean his glory, I wouldn't put it past Him.

Why couldn't "last time" include fits and starts?

First of all, as you say, God clearly reveals that Endless/Eternal is His name and that when we are talking about Endless punishment, it means God's punishment. Second, because the words Endless/Eternal doesn't mean what people might at first glance think what it means is not an indicator that "for the last time" might also mean something different than the most simple and literal understanding. Thirdly, because in context it doesn't make any sense. Changing endless punishment to God's punishment, in context of those scriptures, makes sense. The same can't be said for the phrase, "for the last time". Fourthly, changing the meaning of "for the last time" to the "latest time" serves no apparently purpose other than to give Denver Snuffer's movement legitimacy. Would anyone debate this phrase if they weren't trying to "wrest the keys" from the Brethren? It is just too conveniently self-serving. Kinda like the Lord gave me the name of "David" a few years ago and I'm just now revealing it.

Further, does Denver accept that he may be supplanted by another "dispensation head" for the latest time? Or, is he the latest dispensation head, for the last time?

-Finrock

[Jesef]

Mysteries and keys, when understood or revealed, make more sense out of seemingly ambiguous passages, not less sense, and certainly not nonsense. "Most recent time" or "latest time" makes almost all of these passages noncontinuous and nonsensical (they might as well have not been said or written at all). And, again, knowing the ambiguous/multi-definitional nature of English, why didn't the Lord simply say "most recent"? Come on people.

So far, 2 passages: Score = 2 for "final time", 0 for "most recent time".

[ajax]

But feel free to twist every word/phrase meaning into arbitrary and meaningless nonsense. These are real contributions to the discussion here.

Please humor me. It was meant to be so.

[Jesef]

Sorry, it is hard to tell sometimes when people are cracking jokes or just being antagonistic. No worries.

[Jesef]

3rd Passage with “last time”:

SECTION 34 [LE: 95, KE: 95]
Verily thus saith the Lord unto you whom I love, and whom I love I also chasten that their sins may be forgiven, for with the chastisement I prepare a way for their deliverance in all things out of temptation, and I have loved you, therefore ye must needs be chastened and stand rebuked before my face, for ye have sinned against me a very grievous sin in that ye have not considered the great commandment in all things that I have given unto you concerning the building of mine house, for the preparation wherewith I deign to prepare mine apostles to prune my vineyard for the last time, that I may bring to pass my strange act, that I may pour out my Spirit upon all flesh. But behold verily I say unto you, There are many who have been ordained among you whom I have called, but few of them are chosen. They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin in that they are walking in darkness at noonday, and for this cause I gave unto you a commandment that you should call your solemn assembly, that your fasting and your mourning might come up into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, which is, by interpretation, the Creator of the first day, the beginning and the end.

Very parallel usage and phrasing to the Jacob 5 passages with references to the final time of pruning the vineyard before the Second Coming and Millennium. “Most recent time” removes the need for referencing any time at all. Also references the first and the last, beginning and the end, “end” corresponding with “final” also, not latest or most recent.

Score = 3 for “final time”; 0 for “most recent time”

[Seek the Truth]

Thank you Jesef, these are the arguments and citations I gave to Snufferites years ago and my experience is they just ignore them. Once they are in the matrix I'm not sure what gets them out.

But it is valuable to spread these truths to everyone else so they can defend themselves against the deception.

It was so widespread that I put the cornerstone statement in my sig line. President Smith went to lengths to say the kingdom seen by Daniel was the LDS Church and it would not be undone.

Snufferism is base on inability to do research and poor reading comprehension.

[Jesef]

Denver has recontextualized that Daniel reference to mean the kingdom he is setting up, as well as that he is "the servant" mentioned in Jacob 5, not Joseph Smith:

Daniel 2
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

The problem he runs into are the words and revelations given to Joseph Smith himself, which Denver claims to be honoring/preserving and continuing where Joseph left off - but he can't undo all the things Joseph already said in reference to himself and his time period, hence the many contradictions and irreconcilable passages, and the twisted interpretations like this "last time" one.

[Seek the Truth]

Correct. That is why I tell the Snufferites that their real problem is rejecting the teachings of Joseph Smith.

Lol, there was a time on this forum when you could be banned for saying "Snufferite".

[Jesef]

4th Passage with “last time”:

SECTION 117 [LE: 33, KE: 55]
I say unto you Ezra and Northrop, Open ye your ears and hearken to the voice of the Lord your God whose word is quick and powerful, sharper than a two-edged sword to the dividing asunder of the joints and marrow, soul and spirit, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. For verily, verily I say unto you that ye are called to lift up voices as with the sound of a trump to declare my gospel unto a crooked and a perverse generation, for behold, the field is white already to harvest, and it is the eleventh hour, and for the last time that I shall call laborers into my vineyard. And my vineyard has become corrupted every whit and there is none which doeth good save it is a few only and they do err in many instances because of priestcrafts, all having corrupt minds.

And verily, verily I say unto you that this church have I established and called forth out of the wilderness, and even so will I gather mine elect from the four quarters of the earth, even as many as will believe in me and hearken unto my voice.

Yea, verily, verily I say unto you that the field is white already to harvest, wherefore thrust in thy sickle and reap with all thy might, mind, and strength. Open thy mouth and it shall be filled and thou shalt become even as Nephi of old who journeyed from Jerusalem in the wilderness, yea, open thy mouth and spare not and thou shalt be laden with sheaves upon thy back, for lo, I am with you. Yea, open thy mouth and it shall be filled saying, Repent, repent and prepare ye the way of the Lord and make his path strait for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand, yea, repent and be baptized every one of you for the remission of sins, yea, be baptized even by water and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost.

Behold, verily, verily I say unto you, This is my gospel and remember that they shall have faith in me or they can in nowise be saved. And upon this Rock I will build my church, yea, upon this Rock ye are built and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against you. And ye shall remember the church Articles and Covenants to keep them. And whoso having faith, ye shall confirm in my church by the laying on of the hands and I will bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost upon them. And the Book of Mormon and the Holy Scriptures are given of me for thine instruction and the power of my spirit quickeneth all things. Wherefore be faithful praying always, having your lamps trimmed and burning, and oil with you that ye may be ready at the coming of the Bridegroom, for behold, verily, verily I say unto you that I come quickly. Even so. Amen.

I had to paste the whole section here because the context and continuity of the meaning is just too obvious. Again it uses the Jacob 5 language, giving an overall theme here. “Last time” clearly and obviously means “final time” in context. And “my church” clearly means the organization Joseph Smith set up and “upon this Rock ye are built and the gates of hell shall not prevail against you.” There’s literally no other sensible way to read this.

Score = 4 for “final time”; 0 for “most recent time” (-4 for Snuffer)

[dewajack]

When it comes to there possibly being more dispensations, I believe the discourse quoted below is good food for thought. I think it's important to note that this discourse was the only one known to have been prepared by Joseph to be read as is, so one can't point to a recorder's error. Like all things, it's highly possible that we don't fully grasp dispensations either, such as the possibility of them overlapping, etc. Again, this is just food for thought, but there are other gems here as well if one will receive them.

When I think of how we tend to be (myself included of course), I can't help but think of this Shakespeare quote. After all, it's really hard to teach someone who already thinks they have the answers.

But man, proud man,
Drest in a little brief authority,
Most ignorant of what he’s most assur’d;
His glassy essence, like an angry ape,
Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven,
As make the angels weep.

Sources for Joseph Smith's Nauvoo Discourses
5 October 1840 (Monday Morning).

Original Manuscript, in the hand of Robert B. Thompson

In order to investigate the subject of the Priesthood so important to this as well as every succeeding generation, I shall proceed to trace the subject as far as I possibly can from the Old and new Testament.

There are two Priesthoods spoken of in the Scriptures, viz the Melchisadeck and the Aaronic or Levitical Altho there are two Priesthoods, yet the Melchisadeck Priesthood comprehends the Aaronic or Levitical Priesthood and is the Grand head, and holds the highest Authority which pertains to the Priesthood the keys of the Kingdom of God in all ages of the world to the latest posterity on the earth and is the channel through which all knowledge, doctrine, the plan of salvation and every important matter is revealed from heaven. Its institution was prior to "the foundation of this earth or the morning stars sang together or the Sons of God shouted for joy," and is the highest and holiest Priesthood and is after the order of the Son [of] God, and all other Priesthoods are only parts, ramifications, powers and blessings belonging to the same and are held controlled and directed by it. It is the channel through which the Almighty commenced revealing his glory at the beginning of the creation of this earth and through which he has continued to reveal himself to the children of men to the present time and through which he will make known his purposes to the end of time—Commencing with Adam who was the first man who is spoken of in Daniel as being the "Antient of days" or in other words the first and oldest of all, the great grand progenitor of whom it is said in another place he is Michael because he was the first and father of all, not only by progeny, but he was the first to hold the spiritual blessings, the plan to whom was made known the plan of ordinances for the Salvation of his posterity unto the end, and to whom Christ was first revealed, and through whom Christ has been revealed from heaven and will continue to be revealed from henceforth. Adam holds the Keys of the dispensation of the fulness of times, i.e. the dispensation of all the times have been and will be revealed through him from the begining to Christ and from Christ to the end of all world the dispensations that have [been and] are to be revealed

Ephesians 1st Chap 9 & 10 verses. "Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ both which are in heaven and which are on earth in him" Now the purpose in himself in the winding up scene of the last dispensation is, that all things pertaining to that dispensation should be conducted precisely in accordance with the preceeding dispensations. And again, God purposed in himself that there should not be an eternal fulness until every dispensation should be fulfilled and gathered together in one and that all things whatsoever that should be gathered together in one in those dispensations unto the same fulness and eternal glory should be in Christ Jesus, therefore he set the ordinances to be the same for Ever and ever and set Adam to watch over them to reveal them from heaven to man or to send Angels to reveal them Heb 1 Chap. 16 verse. Are they not all ministring spirits sent forth to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation. These angels are under the direction of Michael or Adam who acts under the direction of Christ.

From the above quotation we learn that Paul perfectly understood the purpose of God in relation to his connexion with man, and that glorious and perfect order which he established in himself whereby he sent forth power revelations and glory. God will not acknowledge that which he has not called, ordained, and chosen. In the begining God called Adam by his own voice See Genesis 3 Chap 9 & 10 verses. And the Lord called unto Adam and said unto him where art thou, and he said I heard thy voice in the garden and I was afraid because I was naked and hid myself. Adam received commandments and instruction from God. this was the order from the begining: that he received revelations, Commandments, and ordinances at the begining is beyond the power of controversy, else, how did they begin to to offer Sacrifices to God in an acceptable manner? And if they offered sacrifices they must be authorized by ordination. We read in Gen 4th Chap. v. 4 That Abel brought of the firstlings of the flock and the fat thereof and the Lord had respect to Abel and to his offring. And again Heb 11 Chap 4 verse. By Faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent Sacrifice than Cain by which he obtained witness that he was righteous God testifying of his gifts and by it he being dead yet speaketh. how doth ye yet speak? Why he magnified the Priesthood which was confired upon him and died a righteous man, and therefore has become a righteous man an angel of God by receiving his body from the dead, therefore holding still the keys of his dispensation and was sent down from heaven unto Paul to minister consoling words & to commit unto him a knowledge of the mysteries of Godliness and if this was not the case I would ask how did Paul know so much about Abel and why should he talk about his speaking after he was dead. How that he spoke after he was dead must be, by being sent down out of heaven, to administer. This then is the nature of the priesthood, every man holding the presidency of his dispensation and one man holding the presidency of them all even Adam, and Adam receiving his presidency and authority from Christ, but cannot receive a fulness, untill Christ shall present. the kingdom to the Father which shall be at the end of the last dispensation. The power, glory, and blessings of the priesthood could not continue with those who received ordination only as their righteousness continued, for Cain also being authorized to offer sacrifice but not offering it in righteousness, therefore he was cursed. It signifies then, that the ordinances must be kept in the very way God has appointed, otherwise their priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing. If Cain had fulfilled the law of righteousness as did Enoch he could have walked with God all the days of his life and never failed of a blessing. Gen [5:22] And Enock walked with God after he begat Mathusalah 300 years and begat Sons and Daughters and all the days of Enoch were 365 years and Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Now this Enoch God reserved unto himself that he shoud not die at that time and appointed unto him a ministry unto terrestiral bodies of whom there has been but little revealed, He is reserved also unto the presidency of a dispensation. and more shall be said of him and terrestrial bodies in another treaties He is a ministring Angel to minister to those who shall be heirs of Salvation and appered unto Jude as Abel did unto Paul. therefore Jude spoke of him 14 & 15 verses in Jude. and Enoch the seventh revealed these sayings. Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints Paul was also aquainted with this character and received instructions from him. Heb 11 Chap. 5 ver By Faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and was not found because God had translated him for before his translation he had this testimony that he pleased God. But without faith it is impossible to please God, for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a revealer to those who diligently seek him.

Now the doctrine of translation is a power which belongs to this priesthood, there are many things which belong to the powers of the priesthood and the keys thereof that have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world. they are hid from the wise and prudent to be revealed in the last times many may have supposed that the doctrine of translation was a doctrine whereby men were taken immediately into the presence of God and into an Eternal fulness but this is a mistaken idea. There place of habitation is that of the terrestrial order and a place prepared for such characters, he had in he held in reserve to be ministring angels unto many planets, and who as yet have not entered into so great a fulness as those who are resurrected from the dead. See Heb 11 Chap part of the 35 verse "others were tortured not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection" Now it was evident, that there was a better resurrection or else God would not have revealed it unto Paul wherein then can it be said a better ressurrection? This distinction is made between the doctrine of the actual ressurrection and the doctrine of translation, the doctrine of translation obtains deliverance from the tortures and sufferings of the body but their existence will prolong as to their labors and toils of the ministry before they can enter into so great a rest and glory, but on the other hand those who were tortured not accepting deliverance received an immediate rest from their labors, See Rev [14:13] And I heard a voice from heaven saying blessed are the dead who die in the Lord for from henceforth they do rest from their labors and their works do follow them—They rest from their labors for a long time and yet their work is held in reserve for them, that they are permitted to do the same works after they receive a ressurection for their bodies, but we shall leave this subject and the subject of the terresteal bodies for another time in order to treat upon them more fully The next great grand patriarch who held the Keys of the priesthood was Lamech See Gen 5 Chap 28 & 29 verses—And Lamech lived 182 years and begat a Son and he called his name Noah saying this same shall comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands because of the ground which the Lord has curst. "The priesthood continued from Lamech to Noah Gen 6 Chap 13 verse. And God said unto Noah the end of all flesh is before me, for the earth is filled with violence through them, and behold I will destroy them with the earth," thus we behold the Keys of this priesthood consisted in obtaining the voice of Jehovah that he talked with him in a familiar and friendly manner, that he continued to him the Keys, the Covenants, the power and the glory with which he blessed Adam at the beginning and the offring of Sacrifice which also shall be continued at the last time, for all the ordinances and duties that ever have been required by the priesthood under the direction and commandments of the Almighty in the last dispensation at the end thereof in any of the dispensations, shall all be had in the last dispensation. Therefore all things had under the Authority of the Priesthood at any former period shall be had again—bringing to pass the restoration spoken of by the mouth of all the Holy Prophets. Malachi 3 then shall the sons of Levi offer unto the Lord an acceptable offring" then shall the sons of Levi offer an acceptable sacrifice to the Lord Se[e] Malichi 3 Chap. 3 & 4 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of Silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord

It will be necessary here to make a few observations on the doctrine, set forth in the above quotation, As it is generally supposed that Sacrifice was entirely done away when the great sacrife was offered up—and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of Sacrifice in future, but those who assert this, are certainly not aquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the priesthood. or with the prophets The offering of Sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the priesthood. It began with the prieshood and will be continued untill after the coming of Christ from generation to generation—We freequently have mention made of the offering of Sacrifice by the servants of the most high in antient days prior to the law of moses, See which ordinances will be continued when the priesthood is restored with all its authority power and blessings. Elijah was the last prophet that held the keys of this priesthood, and who will, before the last dispensation, restore the authority and delive[r] the Keys of this priesthood in order that all the ordinances may be attended to in righteousness.

It is true that the Savior had authoritity and power to bestow this blessing but the Sons of Levi were too predjudi[ced]

And I will send Elijah the Prophet before the great and terrible day of the Lord &c &c.

Why send Elijah because he holds the Keys of the Authority to administer in all the ordinances of the priesthood and without the authority is given the ordinances could not be administered in righteousness.

It is a very prevalent opinion that in the sacrifices of sacrifices which were offered were entirely consumed, this was not the case if you read Leviticus [2] Chap [2-3] verses you will observe that the priests took a part as a memorial and offered it up before the Lord, while the remainder was kept for the benefit maintenance of the priests. So that the offerings and sacrifices are not all consumed upon the Alter, but the blood is sprinkled and the fat and certain other portions are consumed These sacrifices as well as every ordinance belonging to the priesthood will when the temple of the Lord shall be built and the Sons Levi be purified be fully restored and attended to then all their powers ramifications ramifications and blessings—this the Sons of Levi shall be purified. ever was and will exist when the powers of the Melchisid Priesthood are sufficientIy manifest. Else how can the restitution of all things spoken of by all the Holy Prophets be brought to pass be brought to pass It is not to be understood that, the law of moses will be established again with all it rights and variety of ceremonies, ceremonies, this had never been spoken off by the prophets but those things which existed prior Mose's day viz Sacrifice will be continued —It may be asked by some what necessity for Sacrifice since the great Sacrifice was offered? In answer to which if Repentance Baptism and faith were necessary to Salvation existed prior to the days of Christ what necessity for them since that time

The priesthood has descended in a regular line from Father to Son through their succeeding generations

[Jesef]

At this point, I have to throw out Denver Snuffer's teaching/precept/interpretation of "last time" - in these contexts - as pure trickery. Purely false. Untenable. Nonsensical. If Denver is telling the truth, then Joseph Smith's words and revelations are meaningless - and if Joseph Smith's words & revelations are meaningless, Denver Snuffer has literally nothing to stand on, because he has built his entire case/platform and movement on the premise that Joseph was the last real/true prophet and he/Denver/renamed-"David" was called to preserve and continue where Joseph left off. Denver's entire movement rests on his claim of discontinuity being true, not continuity, and all of these passages imply, if not demand, continuity. And there are at least a half dozen more to go. I probably will not finish today. But I am actually surprised myself at how spurious and flimsy this "last time" meaning "most recent time" interpretation of Denver's is turning out to be. Denver contradicts Joseph, as far as makes any sense in English.

Don't take my word for it (or scoring), though, read the passages yourself and substitute "most recent" for every instance of "last" and see if they make sense at all. Come to your own conclusion. So far, I think if the Lord meant "most recent" He should have said "most recent" or simply not made any time reference at all, just stayed time ambiguous.

[Seek the Truth]

Amen brother. What always blew my mind is how desperate snufferites were to avoid these issues, or weren't even aware of Joseph Smith teachings. To accept Denver Snuffer is to reject Joseph Smith.

[shadow]

Does Denver prefer to be called David? Are his philosophies still titled "from the desk of Denver" or are they now "from the desk of David"? I've heard enough of his false information and interpretations to not care to look myself but I know some of his worshipers frequent this site making fools of themselves.

[Jesef]

He still goes by Denver but, apparently, when he receives a revelation from the Lord, the Lord calls him "David." I've also heard Denver-David.

[Arenera]

He still goes by Denver but, apparently, when he receives a revelation from the Lord, the Lord calls him "David." I've also heard Denver-David.

Denver David ben Snuffer.

[Jesef]

Btw, all of these D&C "last time" and "for the last time" passages so far have distinct ties to the Jacob 5 language of "the vineyard" and "pruning", and "the end", etc. This would clearly correlate that "the servant of the Lord of the vineyard" as well as the "other servants" are Joseph Smith and a continuous set of servants, i.e. one dispensation. It also bespeaks a global/worldwide (the vineyard is the whole world) missionary effort. These D&C passages also reference "my church" and being "confirmed in my church by the laying on of hands" as well as "Church Articles and Covenants." Only The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has put forth this kind of consistent missionary/gospel-spreading effort across all the time since Joseph Smith. Denver Snuffer and his movement aren't sending missionaries throughout the world. They literally cannot fulfill these charges & prophecies. Also, if there was going to be a discontinuation, and later a reboot, through another servant (i.e. Denver), why was this not foretold or at least hinted at? Or is Denver claiming these prophecies were fulfilled by an Aaronic Priesthood only (downgraded) LDS church - since Denver interprets D&C 124 as an actual failure and at least partial rejection? Also, how would this failure and discontinuation and now reboot not constitute the kingdom Joseph set up being "destroyed" or "left to other people" as Daniel put it?