Remnant scriptures on Polygamy

[Mark]

Has anyone ever stopped to consider for a moment that polygamy is the only so-called 'doctrine' that is both an abomination and a commandment to the Lord? =))

There is an important scripture in the D&C son to help you resolve this. I have given it to you several times now. It still isnt sinking in. What's a Dad to do? Heaven knows I tried. Your mothers pillow is constantly wet with tears of concern for your eternal welfare. Give her a break and stop with the rebelliousness.

4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.

That's completely out of context. Right is right and wrong is wrong, Morality isn't arbitrary. God makes that clear in Alma 42, he must follow the laws of the kingdom as well or he would cease to be God. The commandments he is giving and revoking at whim are:

5 Wherefore, I revoke the commandment which was given unto my servants Thomas B. Marsh and Ezra Thayre, and give a new commandment unto my servant Thomas, that he shall take up his journey speedily to the land of Missouri, and my servant Selah J. Griffin shall also go with him.

6 For behold, I revoke the commandment which was given unto my servants Selah J. Griffin and Newel Knight, in consequence of the stiffneckedness of my people which are in Thompson, and their rebellions.

7 Wherefore, let my servant Newel Knight remain with them; and as many as will go may go, that are contrite before me, and be led by him to the land which I have appointed.

He is not changing the morality of polygamy on the fly, he is simply sending people from one place to work to another, commanding his servants on where to work, that does not justify polygamy starting/stopping in any way.

The Lord has in past historical times sanctioned the practice of Celestial plural marriage. That is just a fact. Unless of course you want to throw out several scriptural passages because they don't line up with your particular paradigm. Do as you wish. Just don't act as though you are the purveyor of all things doctrinal past and present. The thoughts of taking on more than 1 wife in mortality gives me the heebie jeebies. That doesn't mean the Lord has never sanctioned its practice since the time of Adam. He has.

[Rensai]

Has anyone ever stopped to consider for a moment that polygamy is the only so-called 'doctrine' that is both an abomination and a commandment to the Lord? =))

There is an important scripture in the D&C son to help you resolve this. I have given it to you several times now. It still isnt sinking in. What's a Dad to do? Heaven knows I tried. Your mothers pillow is constantly wet with tears of concern for your eternal welfare. Give her a break and stop with the rebelliousness.

4 Wherefore I, the Lord, command and revoke, as it seemeth me good; and all this to be answered upon the heads of the rebellious, saith the Lord.

That's completely out of context. Right is right and wrong is wrong, Morality isn't arbitrary. God makes that clear in Alma 42, he must follow the laws of the kingdom as well or he would cease to be God. The commandments he is giving and revoking at whim are:

5 Wherefore, I revoke the commandment which was given unto my servants Thomas B. Marsh and Ezra Thayre, and give a new commandment unto my servant Thomas, that he shall take up his journey speedily to the land of Missouri, and my servant Selah J. Griffin shall also go with him.

6 For behold, I revoke the commandment which was given unto my servants Selah J. Griffin and Newel Knight, in consequence of the stiffneckedness of my people which are in Thompson, and their rebellions.

7 Wherefore, let my servant Newel Knight remain with them; and as many as will go may go, that are contrite before me, and be led by him to the land which I have appointed.

He is not changing the morality of polygamy on the fly, he is simply sending people from one place to work to another, commanding his servants on where to work, that does not justify polygamy starting/stopping in any way.

The Lord has in past historical times sanctioned the practice of Celestial plural marriage. That is just a fact. Unless of course you want to throw out several scriptural passages because they don't line up with your particular paradigm. Do as you wish. Just don't act as though you are the purveyor of all things doctrinal past and present. The thoughts of taking on more than 1 wife in mortality gives me the heebie jeebies. That doesn't mean the Lord has never sanctioned its practice since the time of Adam. He has.

There is a ton of evidence to show section 132 is either completely fake or at least heavily edited to support polygamy, other than that 1 flawed section, you cannot find anywhere in scripture where God commands polygamy. That is just a fact. Polygamy gives you the heebie jeebies because its adultery and its wrong. Set aside the philosophies of men that have been drilled into you and think! Read the scriptures plainly and without predetermined ideas or interpretations. Jacob 2 destroys polygamy and certainly does not say God will command it from time to time. Its as plain as can be. He says, if you believe the scriptures support polygamy you don't understand them!

Lesser law: Do not commit adultery
Higher Law: Don't even look at woman(man) to lust after them or you've already committed adultery in your heart (this is harder, stricter, moves you even farther from the temptation of that sin)
Highest Law: Ignore all that, go shopping for more wives?? That is absurd. Higher laws build upon lower ones to enhance us further and help us become more like God.

Or lets put this another way, the 2nd great commandment is:

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

[Arenera]

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.

When first plural marriage was suggested to me, … I would not listen to the matter. The idea was repugnant, abhorrent. I was like any other young woman who had beaux and suitors for her hand. I wanted to share a husband with no woman. But I was told it was God’s command, and I went to God and asked God to enlighten me, and he did. I saw and felt that plural marriage was not only right, but that it was the only true manner of living up to the gospels, and I quenched my womanly emotions and entered the order

In Nauvoo I first understood that the practice of plurality of wives was to be introduced into the church. The subject was very repugnant to my feelings — so directly was it in opposition to my educated prepossessions, that it seemed as though all the prejudices of my ancestors for generations past congregated around me. But when I reflected that I was living in the Dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other Dispensations, surely Plural Marriage must necessarily be included, and I consoled myself with the idea that it was far in the distance, and beyond the period of my mortal existence. It was not long however, after I received the first intimation, before the announcement reached me that the “set time” had come — that God had commanded his servants to establish the order, by taking additional wives — I knew that God … was speaking. … As I increased in knowledge concerning the principle and design of Plural Marriage, I grew in love with it. …

I was sealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, for time and eternity, in accordance with the Celestial Law of Marriage which God has revealed — the ceremony being performed by a servant of the Most High — authorized to officiate in sacred ordinances. This, one of the most important circumstances of my life, I have never had cause to regret.

Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

[Arenera]

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.

When first plural marriage was suggested to me, … I would not listen to the matter. The idea was repugnant, abhorrent. I was like any other young woman who had beaux and suitors for her hand. I wanted to share a husband with no woman. But I was told it was God’s command, and I went to God and asked God to enlighten me, and he did. I saw and felt that plural marriage was not only right, but that it was the only true manner of living up to the gospels, and I quenched my womanly emotions and entered the order

In Nauvoo I first understood that the practice of plurality of wives was to be introduced into the church. The subject was very repugnant to my feelings — so directly was it in opposition to my educated prepossessions, that it seemed as though all the prejudices of my ancestors for generations past congregated around me. But when I reflected that I was living in the Dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other Dispensations, surely Plural Marriage must necessarily be included, and I consoled myself with the idea that it was far in the distance, and beyond the period of my mortal existence. It was not long however, after I received the first intimation, before the announcement reached me that the “set time” had come — that God had commanded his servants to establish the order, by taking additional wives — I knew that God … was speaking. … As I increased in knowledge concerning the principle and design of Plural Marriage, I grew in love with it. …

I was sealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, for time and eternity, in accordance with the Celestial Law of Marriage which God has revealed — the ceremony being performed by a servant of the Most High — authorized to officiate in sacred ordinances. This, one of the most important circumstances of my life, I have never had cause to regret.

Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

Did Joseph Smith, the Prophet claim to have a revelation on polygamy, or plural marriage?”… It is a positive fact that he did so claim, and teach, and also practice. I am a living witness of the same. With me it is neither guess work on or hearsay. I had it from his own mouth. To us, it was the word of the Lord. I accepted the pure and sacred principle, and was married, or sealed, to him, as his wife, for time and all eternity.

However, when giving her deposition in the Temple Lot litigation in 1892, she was asked point-blank by the RLDS attorney, “Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?” she answered frankly: “Yes sir.”

[MMbelieve]

About Abraham

And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

Abraham was a powerful individual. He sought the blessings of the fathers. God condoned Abraham having more than one wife. How do we know? Because of the Abrahamic Covenant. You certainly want to be part of that.

Your understanding of scripture is twisted based on what YOU WANT the scriptures to mean....You want to have the opportunity to take extra wives, which is why you choose to interpret it that way. Problem is so many scriptures contradict what you are trying to teach. AND I WILL GIVE YOU A COUPLE...can you understand these scriptures...they completely contradict your teachings.....


Joseph Smith Translation of Mathew 3:36 And think not to say within yourselves, We are the children of Abraham, and we only have power to bring seed unto our father Abraham; for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children into Abraham.

Heres another....
JST...Mathew 23:34-35 Verily, I say unto you, all these things shall come upon this generation...Ye bear testimony against your fathers, when ye, yourselves are partakers of the same wickedness. Behold your fathers did it through ignorance, but ye do not;wherefore, their sins shall be upon your heads.


We have these records (The scriptures contain the sins of our fathers...even those of Abraham, Issac and Jacob), so that we know not to make the same mistakes...and yet we use it to justify our sins. It says it right there...what they did they did in ignorance.. Just because they took wives doesnt mean it wasn't a sin....what they did they did in ignorance. All though scripture...THE LIE IS THAT GOD CANNOT PRODUCE THE SEED, and we must do it ourselves......EVE believed the lie (that she and adam had to SIN and Die to do it) Sarah Believed the lie....GUESS WHO DIDNT believe the lie...MARY, a virgin who conceived. Jesus says in those versus, that God is able of these stones to "raise up children into Abraham".....He doesnt need us to take a bunch of wives. He can made children from stones...just like he made adam from dust. We don't need to commit adultery to produce seed. We need someone like Mary--a virgin...pure and underlied (which can mean more than just sexually pure...to be spotless means something greater). The scriptures can teach us where we sin....we need to stop using them to justify our sins.

Doing yoga does not mean you are a contortionist. Were you a stone?

It was not a sin because God did condone it. Fornication and adultery surely is a sin. Polygamy condoned by God is not a sin. Joseph was commanded and he obeyed the commandment, so did Brigham Young and the others. Approval from God stopped around 1900.

If we tried to do polygamy, it would be considered a sin since God does not condone it today. See Jacob 2.

Abraham and Jacob were spotless on this item, hence they became great sons of God. Jacob even had a ladder named after him.

What idea or scripture or words help you to believe that God condoned it?

Joseph Smith doesn't have any children with anyone besides Emma. So whatever polygamy he practiced was different from the polygamy we always reference.

The way you talk of these polygamist men, you point out the sin. Even men of God, great men shouldn't be idolized. Having many wives seems to be like gathering properties to esteem oneself and then we get the perverts who idolize these men saying hey even Jacob has a latter named after him...lol. seriously this post made me laugh.

[MMbelieve]

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.

When first plural marriage was suggested to me, … I would not listen to the matter. The idea was repugnant, abhorrent. I was like any other young woman who had beaux and suitors for her hand. I wanted to share a husband with no woman. But I was told it was God’s command, and I went to God and asked God to enlighten me, and he did. I saw and felt that plural marriage was not only right, but that it was the only true manner of living up to the gospels, and I quenched my womanly emotions and entered the order

In Nauvoo I first understood that the practice of plurality of wives was to be introduced into the church. The subject was very repugnant to my feelings — so directly was it in opposition to my educated prepossessions, that it seemed as though all the prejudices of my ancestors for generations past congregated around me. But when I reflected that I was living in the Dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other Dispensations, surely Plural Marriage must necessarily be included, and I consoled myself with the idea that it was far in the distance, and beyond the period of my mortal existence. It was not long however, after I received the first intimation, before the announcement reached me that the “set time” had come — that God had commanded his servants to establish the order, by taking additional wives — I knew that God … was speaking. … As I increased in knowledge concerning the principle and design of Plural Marriage, I grew in love with it. …

I was sealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, for time and eternity, in accordance with the Celestial Law of Marriage which God has revealed — the ceremony being performed by a servant of the Most High — authorized to officiate in sacred ordinances. This, one of the most important circumstances of my life, I have never had cause to regret.

Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

Did Joseph Smith, the Prophet claim to have a revelation on polygamy, or plural marriage?”… It is a positive fact that he did so claim, and teach, and also practice. I am a living witness of the same. With me it is neither guess work on or hearsay. I had it from his own mouth. To us, it was the word of the Lord. I accepted the pure and sacred principle, and was married, or sealed, to him, as his wife, for time and all eternity.

However, when giving her deposition in the Temple Lot litigation in 1892, she was asked point-blank by the RLDS attorney, “Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?” she answered frankly: “Yes sir.”

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

[Arenera]

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.

When first plural marriage was suggested to me, … I would not listen to the matter. The idea was repugnant, abhorrent. I was like any other young woman who had beaux and suitors for her hand. I wanted to share a husband with no woman. But I was told it was God’s command, and I went to God and asked God to enlighten me, and he did. I saw and felt that plural marriage was not only right, but that it was the only true manner of living up to the gospels, and I quenched my womanly emotions and entered the order

In Nauvoo I first understood that the practice of plurality of wives was to be introduced into the church. The subject was very repugnant to my feelings — so directly was it in opposition to my educated prepossessions, that it seemed as though all the prejudices of my ancestors for generations past congregated around me. But when I reflected that I was living in the Dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other Dispensations, surely Plural Marriage must necessarily be included, and I consoled myself with the idea that it was far in the distance, and beyond the period of my mortal existence. It was not long however, after I received the first intimation, before the announcement reached me that the “set time” had come — that God had commanded his servants to establish the order, by taking additional wives — I knew that God … was speaking. … As I increased in knowledge concerning the principle and design of Plural Marriage, I grew in love with it. …

I was sealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, for time and eternity, in accordance with the Celestial Law of Marriage which God has revealed — the ceremony being performed by a servant of the Most High — authorized to officiate in sacred ordinances. This, one of the most important circumstances of my life, I have never had cause to regret.

Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

Did Joseph Smith, the Prophet claim to have a revelation on polygamy, or plural marriage?”… It is a positive fact that he did so claim, and teach, and also practice. I am a living witness of the same. With me it is neither guess work on or hearsay. I had it from his own mouth. To us, it was the word of the Lord. I accepted the pure and sacred principle, and was married, or sealed, to him, as his wife, for time and all eternity.

However, when giving her deposition in the Temple Lot litigation in 1892, she was asked point-blank by the RLDS attorney, “Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?” she answered frankly: “Yes sir.”

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

The RLDS attorney used the term. Maybe that's what they called it in 1892. Can you imagine the terms used in our days?

[Rensai]

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.





Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

Did Joseph Smith, the Prophet claim to have a revelation on polygamy, or plural marriage?”… It is a positive fact that he did so claim, and teach, and also practice. I am a living witness of the same. With me it is neither guess work on or hearsay. I had it from his own mouth. To us, it was the word of the Lord. I accepted the pure and sacred principle, and was married, or sealed, to him, as his wife, for time and all eternity.

However, when giving her deposition in the Temple Lot litigation in 1892, she was asked point-blank by the RLDS attorney, “Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?” she answered frankly: “Yes sir.”

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

The RLDS attorney used the term. Maybe that's what they called it in 1892. Can you imagine the terms used in our days?

The temple lot case doesn't help the polygamists. Lets see what the judge of the temple lot case, who ruled against the polygamists, had to say about these women's testimonies.

It is charged by the Respondents, as an echo of the Utah Church, that Joseph Smith, "the Martyr," secretly taught and practiced polygamy; and the Utah contingent furnishes the evidence, and two of the women, to prove this fact. It perhaps would be uncharitable to say of these women that they have borne false testimony as to their connection with Joseph Smith; but, in view of all the evidence and circumstances surrounding the alleged intercourse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that at most they were but sports in "nest hiding." In view of the contention of the Salt Lake party, that polygamy obtained at Nauvoo as early as 1841, it must be a little embarrassing to President Woodruff of that organization when he is confronted, as he was in the evidence in this case, with a published card in the church organ at Nauvoo in October, 1843, certifying that he knew of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and that the "secret wife system," charged against the church, was a creature of invention by one Doctor Bennett, and that they knew of no such society. That certificate was signed by the leading members of the church, including John Taylor the former President of the Utah Church. And a similar certificate was published by the Ladies' Relief Society of the same place, signed by Emma Smith, the wife of Jospeh Smith, and Phoebe Woodruff, wife of the present President Woodruff. No such marriage ever occurred under the rules of the church, and no offspring came from the imputed illicit intercourse, although Joseph Smith was in the full vigor of young manhood, and his wife Emma, was giving birth to healthy children in regular order, and was enciente at the time of Joseph's death.

But if it were conceded that Joseph Smith, and Hyrum, his brother, did secretly practice concubinage, is the church to be charged with those liaisons, and the doctrine of polygamy to be predicated thereon of the church? If so, I suspect the doctrine of polygamy might be imputed to many of the Gentile churches. Certainly it was never promulgated, taught, nor recognized, as a doctrine of the church prior to the assumption of Brigham Young. — Decision of Judge Philips in Temple Lot Case, pp. 20–26.

Right there plain as day. No real evidence was supplied of Joseph ever practicing polygamy, and the women (and men) who testified of it were not credible. The Judge did not believe Joseph had anything to do with polygamy. Every woman who claims she was married to Joseph does so years after he was dead and most of them were married to polygamists at the time they made their claims. They are not credible at all.

There is a ton of evidence to support the idea Joseph never taught or practiced polygamy, but all we really need is the words from the BoM to get to the truth of the matter.

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

That's all you really need. Doesn't matter who may or may not have practiced polygamy. God says if you think the scriptures support polygamy, you don't understand them. Polygamy is an abomination.

[Arenera]

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

The RLDS attorney used the term. Maybe that's what they called it in 1892. Can you imagine the terms used in our days?

The temple lot case doesn't help the polygamists. Lets see what the judge of the temple lot case, who ruled against the polygamists, had to say about these women's testimonies.

It is charged by the Respondents, as an echo of the Utah Church, that Joseph Smith, "the Martyr," secretly taught and practiced polygamy; and the Utah contingent furnishes the evidence, and two of the women, to prove this fact. It perhaps would be uncharitable to say of these women that they have borne false testimony as to their connection with Joseph Smith; but, in view of all the evidence and circumstances surrounding the alleged intercourse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that at most they were but sports in "nest hiding." In view of the contention of the Salt Lake party, that polygamy obtained at Nauvoo as early as 1841, it must be a little embarrassing to President Woodruff of that organization when he is confronted, as he was in the evidence in this case, with a published card in the church organ at Nauvoo in October, 1843, certifying that he knew of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and that the "secret wife system," charged against the church, was a creature of invention by one Doctor Bennett, and that they knew of no such society. That certificate was signed by the leading members of the church, including John Taylor the former President of the Utah Church. And a similar certificate was published by the Ladies' Relief Society of the same place, signed by Emma Smith, the wife of Jospeh Smith, and Phoebe Woodruff, wife of the present President Woodruff. No such marriage ever occurred under the rules of the church, and no offspring came from the imputed illicit intercourse, although Joseph Smith was in the full vigor of young manhood, and his wife Emma, was giving birth to healthy children in regular order, and was enciente at the time of Joseph's death.

But if it were conceded that Joseph Smith, and Hyrum, his brother, did secretly practice concubinage, is the church to be charged with those liaisons, and the doctrine of polygamy to be predicated thereon of the church? If so, I suspect the doctrine of polygamy might be imputed to many of the Gentile churches. Certainly it was never promulgated, taught, nor recognized, as a doctrine of the church prior to the assumption of Brigham Young. — Decision of Judge Philips in Temple Lot Case, pp. 20–26.

Right there plain as day. No real evidence was supplied of Joseph ever practicing polygamy, and the women (and men) who testified of it were not credible. The Judge did not believe Joseph had anything to do with polygamy. Every woman who claims she was married to Joseph does so years after he was dead and most of them were married to polygamists at the time they made their claims. They are not credible at all.

There is a ton of evidence to support the idea Joseph never taught or practiced polygamy, but all we really need is the words from the BoM to get to the truth of the matter.

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

That's all you really need. Doesn't matter who may or may not have practiced polygamy. God says if you think the scriptures support polygamy, you don't understand them. Polygamy is an abomination.

You are incorrect since Jacob had four wives. Soleman's issue was taking wives outside the covenant:

. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Celestial Marriage was restored by Joseph Smith. Do you think all these below could have hidden it from Joseph? No, Joseph started it, of course it required the point of a sword.

IMG_0303.JPEG (109.54 KiB) Viewed 969 times

[Rensai]

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

The RLDS attorney used the term. Maybe that's what they called it in 1892. Can you imagine the terms used in our days?

The temple lot case doesn't help the polygamists. Lets see what the judge of the temple lot case, who ruled against the polygamists, had to say about these women's testimonies.

It is charged by the Respondents, as an echo of the Utah Church, that Joseph Smith, "the Martyr," secretly taught and practiced polygamy; and the Utah contingent furnishes the evidence, and two of the women, to prove this fact. It perhaps would be uncharitable to say of these women that they have borne false testimony as to their connection with Joseph Smith; but, in view of all the evidence and circumstances surrounding the alleged intercourse, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that at most they were but sports in "nest hiding." In view of the contention of the Salt Lake party, that polygamy obtained at Nauvoo as early as 1841, it must be a little embarrassing to President Woodruff of that organization when he is confronted, as he was in the evidence in this case, with a published card in the church organ at Nauvoo in October, 1843, certifying that he knew of no other rule or system of marriage than the one published in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and that the "secret wife system," charged against the church, was a creature of invention by one Doctor Bennett, and that they knew of no such society. That certificate was signed by the leading members of the church, including John Taylor the former President of the Utah Church. And a similar certificate was published by the Ladies' Relief Society of the same place, signed by Emma Smith, the wife of Jospeh Smith, and Phoebe Woodruff, wife of the present President Woodruff. No such marriage ever occurred under the rules of the church, and no offspring came from the imputed illicit intercourse, although Joseph Smith was in the full vigor of young manhood, and his wife Emma, was giving birth to healthy children in regular order, and was enciente at the time of Joseph's death.

But if it were conceded that Joseph Smith, and Hyrum, his brother, did secretly practice concubinage, is the church to be charged with those liaisons, and the doctrine of polygamy to be predicated thereon of the church? If so, I suspect the doctrine of polygamy might be imputed to many of the Gentile churches. Certainly it was never promulgated, taught, nor recognized, as a doctrine of the church prior to the assumption of Brigham Young. — Decision of Judge Philips in Temple Lot Case, pp. 20–26.

Right there plain as day. No real evidence was supplied of Joseph ever practicing polygamy, and the women (and men) who testified of it were not credible. The Judge did not believe Joseph had anything to do with polygamy. Every woman who claims she was married to Joseph does so years after he was dead and most of them were married to polygamists at the time they made their claims. They are not credible at all.

There is a ton of evidence to support the idea Joseph never taught or practiced polygamy, but all we really need is the words from the BoM to get to the truth of the matter.

23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

That's all you really need. Doesn't matter who may or may not have practiced polygamy. God says if you think the scriptures support polygamy, you don't understand them. Polygamy is an abomination.

You are incorrect since Jacob had four wives. Soleman's issue was taking wives outside the covenant:

. For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

Celestial Marriage was restored by Joseph Smith. Do you think all these below could have hidden it from Joseph? No, Joseph started it, of course it required the point of a sword.

IMG_0303.JPEG

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

[Arenera]

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

You sound like a remnant. I don't slander Joseph but respect him and his restoration. I also respect Abraham and Jacob. These are great men and so are the women who were part of their lives.

Those who have fallen away are those who don't respect them, chasing after false prophets.

[Rensai]

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

You sound like a remnant. I don't slander Joseph but respect him and his restoration. I also respect Abraham and Jacob. These are great men and so are the women who were part of their lives.

Those who have fallen away are those who don't respect them, chasing after false prophets.

No, i'm not part of the remnant. Joseph fought polygamy to his dying day, publicly and clearly. You can't say you respect him and his restoration while doing the opposite of what he said and following what other's claim he said after he was dead instead.

Joseph declared:

Another indictment has been got up against me [the polygamy indictment]. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me [causing the polygamy indictment to be brought forth].... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they [the alleged wives] are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment [revelation] was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law [William's brother] also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [when charged with polygamy shortly after his marriage to Emma Hale]; and I can prove them all perjurers. (LDS History of the Church 6:410–411; italics added)

Joseph declared this about 1 month before his death. I'm the one honoring Joseph. I take him at his word and reject the words of those who slander him. The polygamists say he publicly lied, secretly married other women, some already married to someone else at the time, also some girls as young as 13-14 etc. You want to believe that vile crap and still claim you honor him?? =))

[Arenera]

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

You sound like a remnant. I don't slander Joseph but respect him and his restoration. I also respect Abraham and Jacob. These are great men and so are the women who were part of their lives.

Those who have fallen away are those who don't respect them, chasing after false prophets.

No, i'm not part of the remnant. Joseph fought polygamy to his dying day, publicly and clearly. You can't say you respect him and his restoration while doing the opposite of what he said and following what other's claim he said after he was dead instead.

Joseph declared:

Another indictment has been got up against me [the polygamy indictment]. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me [causing the polygamy indictment to be brought forth].... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they [the alleged wives] are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment [revelation] was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law [William's brother] also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [when charged with polygamy shortly after his marriage to Emma Hale]; and I can prove them all perjurers. (LDS History of the Church 6:410–411; italics added)

Joseph declared this about 1 month before his death. I'm the one honoring Joseph. I take him at his word and reject the words of those who slander him. The polygamists say he publicly lied, secretly married other women, some already married to someone else at the time, also some girls as young as 13-14 etc. You want to believe that vile crap and still claim you honor him?? =))

"I had been married scarcely five minutes". Joseph married Emma a long time before. Before there was a church. And many witnesses who said Joseph started it.

I can handle it, you cant.

[Arenera]

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

You sound like a remnant. I don't slander Joseph but respect him and his restoration. I also respect Abraham and Jacob. These are great men and so are the women who were part of their lives.

Those who have fallen away are those who don't respect them, chasing after false prophets.

No, i'm not part of the remnant. Joseph fought polygamy to his dying day, publicly and clearly. You can't say you respect him and his restoration while doing the opposite of what he said and following what other's claim he said after he was dead instead.

Joseph declared:

Another indictment has been got up against me [the polygamy indictment]. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me [causing the polygamy indictment to be brought forth].... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they [the alleged wives] are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment [revelation] was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law [William's brother] also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [when charged with polygamy shortly after his marriage to Emma Hale]; and I can prove them all perjurers. (LDS History of the Church 6:410–411; italics added)

Joseph declared this about 1 month before his death. I'm the one honoring Joseph. I take him at his word and reject the words of those who slander him. The polygamists say he publicly lied, secretly married other women, some already married to someone else at the time, also some girls as young as 13-14 etc. You want to believe that vile crap and still claim you honor him?? =))

"I had been married scarcely five minutes". Joseph married Emma a long time before. Before there was a church. And many witnesses who said Joseph started it.

I can handle it, you cant.

Joseph Smith was sealed to ten women under that age of twenty. Four were nineteen, three were seventeen, one was sixteen, and two were fourteen. Marriages for young women sixteen and older were not uncommon in the mid-nineteenth century, but younger marriages were less common. Sexual relations are documented in several of the plural marriages between Joseph and the older seven plural wives, but there is no documentation supporting that the plural sealings to the two fourteen-year-old wives were consummated.

[Rensai]

Doesn't matter how many joined in on polygamy, that proves nothing. If you want to believe the words of these men and women thats up to you, but you're slandering Joseph and rejecting direct words from God to do so.

You sound like a remnant. I don't slander Joseph but respect him and his restoration. I also respect Abraham and Jacob. These are great men and so are the women who were part of their lives.

Those who have fallen away are those who don't respect them, chasing after false prophets.

No, i'm not part of the remnant. Joseph fought polygamy to his dying day, publicly and clearly. You can't say you respect him and his restoration while doing the opposite of what he said and following what other's claim he said after he was dead instead.

Joseph declared:

Another indictment has been got up against me [the polygamy indictment]. It appears a holy prophet [William Law] has arisen up, and he has testified against me [causing the polygamy indictment to be brought forth].... God knows, then, that the charges against me are false.

I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclamation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives. I mean to live and proclaim the truth as long as I can.

This new holy prophet [William Law] has gone to Carthage and swore that I had told him that I was guilty of adultery. This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man dares not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this.... William Law ... swears that I have committed adultery. I wish the grand jury would tell me who they [the alleged wives] are—whether it will be a curse or blessing to me....

A man asked me whether the commandment [revelation] was given that a man may have seven wives; and now the new prophet has charged me with adultery.... Wilson Law [William's brother] also swears that I told him I was guilty of adultery.... I have rattled chains before in a dungeon for truth's sake. I am innocent of all these charges, and you can bear witness of my innocence, for you know me yourselves.... What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one.

I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago [when charged with polygamy shortly after his marriage to Emma Hale]; and I can prove them all perjurers. (LDS History of the Church 6:410–411; italics added)

Joseph declared this about 1 month before his death. I'm the one honoring Joseph. I take him at his word and reject the words of those who slander him. The polygamists say he publicly lied, secretly married other women, some already married to someone else at the time, also some girls as young as 13-14 etc. You want to believe that vile crap and still claim you honor him?? =))

"I had been married scarcely five minutes". Joseph married Emma a long time before. Before there was a church. And many witnesses who said Joseph started it.

I can handle it, you cant.

you completely misread the quote.

[Arenera]

Question: Why did Joseph Smith say "I had not been married scarcely five minutes...before it was reported that I had seven wives"?

Many have criticized or been concerned by the secrecy with which Joseph instituted plural marriage without appreciating the realities of the dangers involved. Illinois law only criminalized adultery or fornication if it was "open". Since Joseph was sealed to his plural wives for either eternity, or for time and eternity, he did not view these relationships as constituting adultery or fornication. Therefore, under Illinois law, as long as Joseph and his plural wives did not live in an "open," or "public," manner, they were not guilty of breaking any civil law then in force in Illinois. Furthermore, this reality explains some of Joseph's public denials, since he could be truthfully said to not be guilty of the charges leveled against him: he was not committing adultery or fornication.

A review of Joseph's remarks in light of the circumstances under which they were spoken shows that Joseph's words were carefully chosen. In this speech, Joseph was specifically reacting to the indictments for perjury and adultery that were presented by the grand jury the day earlier. Thus, when Joseph affirmed during the same speech: "I am innocent of all these charges," he was in particular refuting a claim that he and Maria [Lawrence] had openly and notoriously cohabitated, thus committing the statutory offense of adultery. He was also refuting the perjury charge. While the overall tone of Joseph's remarks may seem misleading, it is understandable that Joseph would have taken pains to dodge the plural marriage issue. By keeping his plural marriages in Nauvoo secret, Joseph effectively kept them legal, at least under the Illinois adultery statute.

Joseph did not commit adultery in Illinois. He did practice Celestial Marriage, as well as did some others. It was commanded by God.

Maria Lawrence was born to Edward and Margaret Lawrence in Pickering, Canada, on December 18, 1823. Her sister Sarah was born two and a half years later on May 13, 1826. The family was converted in 1837 in Canada and moved to Nauvoo in 1840. Joseph Smith was appointed guardian for the family after Edward died in March and the Lawrence sisters went to live with the Smith family.

Three years later in May of 1843, Emma Smith facilitated Joseph’s marriages to four plural wives including Sarah and Maria Lawrence and Eliza and Emily Partridge. Lovina Smith Walker, daughter of Hyrum Smith, signed a statement on June 16, 1869: “I was living with Aunt Emma Smith, in Fulton City Fulton Co. Illinois, in the year 1846. that she told me, that She Emma Smith was present and witnessed the marrying or Sealing of Eliza Partridge, Emily Partridge, Mariah Lawrence, and Sarah Lawrence to her husband, Joseph Smith, and that she gave her concent thereto.”

Lucy Walker acknowledged in 1887: “I am also able to testify that Emma Smith, the Prophet’s first wife, gave her consent to the marriage of at least four other girls [Emily and Eliza Partridge and Maria and Sarah Lawrence] to her husband, and that she was well aware that he associated with them as wives within the meaning of all the word implies.

[MMbelieve]

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.





Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Another confirmation of Celestial Marriage from Emily Partridge one of Joseph's plural wives, which included "carnal intercourse";

Did Joseph Smith, the Prophet claim to have a revelation on polygamy, or plural marriage?”… It is a positive fact that he did so claim, and teach, and also practice. I am a living witness of the same. With me it is neither guess work on or hearsay. I had it from his own mouth. To us, it was the word of the Lord. I accepted the pure and sacred principle, and was married, or sealed, to him, as his wife, for time and all eternity.

However, when giving her deposition in the Temple Lot litigation in 1892, she was asked point-blank by the RLDS attorney, “Did you ever have carnal intercourse with Joseph Smith?” she answered frankly: “Yes sir.”

I doubt the women...really don't trust them at all.

And she had "carnal" intercourse with him and responded yes sir!

I don't have carnal intercourse and if i did i wouldnt state it with pride. Weird

Intercourse vs carnal intercourse

The RLDS attorney used the term. Maybe that's what they called it in 1892. Can you imagine the terms used in our days?

Ya I can imagine the terms used today. Sex, intercourse, marital relations, consumation.
Carnal sex sounds "wrong" and she said yes sir, like they were implicating him of a wrong doing or a one sided action.

But hey, I didn't live back then I don't know. It just sounds like a negative thing.

[Jesef]

If D&C 132 is true and from Joseph Smith, why didn't he leave behind 100's of kids from his supposed 33+ sealed wives (which he purportedly or supposedly consummated each marriage with)? I mean, reportedly, he started practicing plural marriage with Fanny Alger as early as 1831 and all the way up until he died in 1844 (according to LDS.org article on Plural Marriage).

And how did all these plural wives of Joseph end up out West, married to BY and other Apostles, when Emma and none of JS's immediate family followed (all stayed behind in Nauvoo and joined RLDS or other split-offs)? Doesn't sound like they were on the same page. And don't tell me there wasn't like HUGE pressure on these gals to claim certain things to strengthen the case for polygamy during the LDS vs RLDS legal battles over polygamy and who was Joseph's real successor institution/organization.

"Lying for the Lord" (sounds like Lion of the Lord, aka BY) was very common during the Reed-Smoot hearings and this era, too. Preserve the Kingdom at all costs, even if you have to fib for it. It was life or death, or freedom vs imprisonment, the stakes were high, no doubt. It wasn't fair, it wasn't constitutional - but neither was it clean and pure.

[MMbelieve]

Treat others the way you want to be treated. Is polygamy in line with that? It should be clear it is not. Do you want to share your wife with multiple men?

Multiple wives, not multiple men...

Eliza R. Snow - Someone said she is the wife of this dispensation.

When first plural marriage was suggested to me, … I would not listen to the matter. The idea was repugnant, abhorrent. I was like any other young woman who had beaux and suitors for her hand. I wanted to share a husband with no woman. But I was told it was God’s command, and I went to God and asked God to enlighten me, and he did. I saw and felt that plural marriage was not only right, but that it was the only true manner of living up to the gospels, and I quenched my womanly emotions and entered the order

In Nauvoo I first understood that the practice of plurality of wives was to be introduced into the church. The subject was very repugnant to my feelings — so directly was it in opposition to my educated prepossessions, that it seemed as though all the prejudices of my ancestors for generations past congregated around me. But when I reflected that I was living in the Dispensation of the fulness of times, embracing all other Dispensations, surely Plural Marriage must necessarily be included, and I consoled myself with the idea that it was far in the distance, and beyond the period of my mortal existence. It was not long however, after I received the first intimation, before the announcement reached me that the “set time” had come — that God had commanded his servants to establish the order, by taking additional wives — I knew that God … was speaking. … As I increased in knowledge concerning the principle and design of Plural Marriage, I grew in love with it. …

I was sealed to the Prophet, Joseph Smith, for time and eternity, in accordance with the Celestial Law of Marriage which God has revealed — the ceremony being performed by a servant of the Most High — authorized to officiate in sacred ordinances. This, one of the most important circumstances of my life, I have never had cause to regret.

Real life. Real story. Real plural marriage. Just like Jacob who had four wives and 12 sons. Each of us belongs to one of the tribes of Israel.

Eliza also said that love had no part in a marriage.

At that time marriage was an arrangement and aggrement between two people and love was not necessarily a part of the arrangement. Men could legally still beat their wives and owned them as property. A woman gave up her self (completely) when she married and her husband was the boss and could do as he pleased with her. It also wasn't a foreign thought that men were allowed to have other relations out side of their wife.

So...Polygamy just became an aggrement between 3 or more people instead of two and love still wasn't necessarily a part of it.

Polygamy couldn't be implemented in the church quite as easily now as it was/did then. Times are WAY different. Women have a say now and women have individuality in marriage and have rights. Take away those rights then polygamy can work again because no one really gives a care about anyone else.

[MMbelieve]

One huge issue I do not see addressed by those who are pro polygamy (which might as well include the church) is the reason or justification as to why Joseph Smith doesn't have the amount of children others like BY had. Really, what is the explanation for this?

And if we say that there was a dead child that was said to be his, save it...that's really a weak support because it is only 1 child.

If Joseph was sealing himself to women as wives to bind families together for eternity (Kimball girl example) then why do we assume that he had sex with them? There is no children. What does this fruitless act of sex have to do with binding families together?

Anyone care to reply with some understanding of how pro polygamist explain this situation.

[Arenera]

If D&C 132 is true and from Joseph Smith, why didn't he leave behind 100's of kids from his supposed 33+ sealed wives (which he purportedly or supposedly consummated each marriage with)? I mean, reportedly, he started practicing plural marriage with Fanny Alger as early as 1831 and all the way up until he died in 1844 (according to LDS.org article on Plural Marriage).

And how did all these plural wives of Joseph end up out West, married to BY and other Apostles, when Emma and none of JS's immediate family followed (all stayed behind in Nauvoo and joined RLDS or other split-offs)? Doesn't sound like they were on the same page. And don't tell me there wasn't like HUGE pressure on these gals to claim certain things to strengthen the case for polygamy during the LDS vs RLDS legal battles over polygamy and who was Joseph's real successor institution/organization.

"Lying for the Lord" (sounds like Lion of the Lord, aka BY) was very common during the Reed-Smoot hearings and this era, too. Preserve the Kingdom at all costs, even if you have to fib for it. It was life or death, or freedom vs imprisonment, the stakes were high, no doubt. It wasn't fair, it wasn't constitutional - but neither was it clean and pure.

Emma made it hard, sleeping between Joseph and the new bride. Emma didn't like the concept.

According to Joseph Lee Robinson, who turned thirty-two in 1843 and who supervised a school in Nauvoo, Emma even commissioned spies to prevent Joseph from having private moments with his plural wives.

Emma ostensibly sought total control over his plural marriage activities after July 12, 1843.

[Finrock]

The belief is that Joseph Smith was married in every sense of the word to 33+ women. It is believed that Joseph Smith was married to multiple women and as far as God was concerned it was perfectly okay for Joseph to make love to the women who were his wives that were given to Joseph by God. It is presumed that Joseph Smith made love to at least several of his wives.

What is amazing to me is that if Joseph Smith made love to, lets say half, of the women he was married to, that in all of those instances of making love, none of the wives of Joseph Smith bore him children except for Emma Smith. Were they using birth control? If so, why would they be doing that if God approves polygamy to raise up seed? Were they terminating the pregnancies? That would be awful. Were all of the women infertile? This seems highly improbably. If Joseph Smith was a polygamist it seems very strange to me that he only had children with Emma Smith, his first wife. This is unlike any of the other leaders of the Church who followed Joseph and who practiced polygamy.

-Finrock

[Finrock]

If D&C 132 is true and from Joseph Smith, why didn't he leave behind 100's of kids from his supposed 33+ sealed wives (which he purportedly or supposedly consummated each marriage with)? I mean, reportedly, he started practicing plural marriage with Fanny Alger as early as 1831 and all the way up until he died in 1844 (according to LDS.org article on Plural Marriage).

And how did all these plural wives of Joseph end up out West, married to BY and other Apostles, when Emma and none of JS's immediate family followed (all stayed behind in Nauvoo and joined RLDS or other split-offs)? Doesn't sound like they were on the same page. And don't tell me there wasn't like HUGE pressure on these gals to claim certain things to strengthen the case for polygamy during the LDS vs RLDS legal battles over polygamy and who was Joseph's real successor institution/organization.

"Lying for the Lord" (sounds like Lion of the Lord, aka BY) was very common during the Reed-Smoot hearings and this era, too. Preserve the Kingdom at all costs, even if you have to fib for it. It was life or death, or freedom vs imprisonment, the stakes were high, no doubt. It wasn't fair, it wasn't constitutional - but neither was it clean and pure.

Emma made it hard, sleeping between Joseph and the new bride. Emma didn't like the concept.

According to Joseph Lee Robinson, who turned thirty-two in 1843 and who supervised a school in Nauvoo, Emma even commissioned spies to prevent Joseph from having private moments with his plural wives.

Emma ostensibly sought total control over his plural marriage activities after July 12, 1843.

Are you contending that Joseph Smith was married to multiple wives, full on marriages, with all the rights and privileges that come with marriage, but he never made love to any of his other wives?

-Finrock

[Jesef]

And that he publicly denounced polygamy (multiple real/physical wives, with whom he was copulating and impregnating) while teaching and practicing it privately/secretly? But that none of these secret wives bore him any children?

[Arenera]

If D&C 132 is true and from Joseph Smith, why didn't he leave behind 100's of kids from his supposed 33+ sealed wives (which he purportedly or supposedly consummated each marriage with)? I mean, reportedly, he started practicing plural marriage with Fanny Alger as early as 1831 and all the way up until he died in 1844 (according to LDS.org article on Plural Marriage).

And how did all these plural wives of Joseph end up out West, married to BY and other Apostles, when Emma and none of JS's immediate family followed (all stayed behind in Nauvoo and joined RLDS or other split-offs)? Doesn't sound like they were on the same page. And don't tell me there wasn't like HUGE pressure on these gals to claim certain things to strengthen the case for polygamy during the LDS vs RLDS legal battles over polygamy and who was Joseph's real successor institution/organization.

"Lying for the Lord" (sounds like Lion of the Lord, aka BY) was very common during the Reed-Smoot hearings and this era, too. Preserve the Kingdom at all costs, even if you have to fib for it. It was life or death, or freedom vs imprisonment, the stakes were high, no doubt. It wasn't fair, it wasn't constitutional - but neither was it clean and pure.

Emma made it hard, sleeping between Joseph and the new bride. Emma didn't like the concept.

According to Joseph Lee Robinson, who turned thirty-two in 1843 and who supervised a school in Nauvoo, Emma even commissioned spies to prevent Joseph from having private moments with his plural wives.

Emma ostensibly sought total control over his plural marriage activities after July 12, 1843.

Are you contending that Joseph Smith was married to multiple wives, full on marriages, with all the rights and privileges that come with marriage, but he never made love to any of his other wives?

-Finrock

Celestial Wives with benefits.....sometimes...

Frequency of Sexual Relations
It is impossible to accurately determine how often Joseph Smith spent time with his plural wives, either in conjugal visits or otherwise.

The Nauvoo years were busy for Joseph. He had heavy ecclesiastical and civic responsibilities as church president and city mayor. He entertained visitors and journalists, had parenting responsibilities, and intermittently went into hiding to avoid Missouri lawmen. He also managed a complicated real estate business, preached at weekly services, and in 1844, offered himself as a candidate for US president, which would further have limited his time.

In addition, secrecy was a major concern. Rumors of “spiritual wifery” were rampant after John C. Bennett wrote his mid-1842 letters accusing Joseph Smith of sexual improprieties. Joseph had nothing to do with Bennett’s marital system, but the Prophet’s teachings of restored Old Testament polygamy were still concealed, even from many devout members.

Another huge obstacle was Emma Smith’s vigilant and mostly intolerant eyes.

EE89C650-99AC-4B71-9847-395A6162FD00-5503-00000C2A21D34F7A.jpeg (22.79 KiB) Viewed 726 times