Denver Snuffer's Remnant scripture project and covenant

[Jesef]

On a different note, many of you Snuffer-Remnant folks have parroted a teaching/interpretation of his which you've gotten wrong (i.e. he didn't teach what you're saying he taught - unless he modified it somewhere else) and it's this teaching that The Book of Mormon was written to/for Mormons/Latter-day-Saints - isn't it obvious since we're the only ones reading it?

Denver actually taught this here: http://denversnuffer.com/2012/04/jacob-5-52/

This leads to several side issues, including: Who are the gentiles and how do they fit into the plan of regrafting? Who are the remnant, and how do they fit into the regrafting? Who are the Jews and how do they fit into the latter-day scheme? What about the latter-day saint practice of identifying a Tribe of Israel in the patriarchial blessings and the effect that has on regrafting?

These questions require a specific reference point from which to answer. The Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants provide answers. In the vocabulary of both, the “gentiles” are the members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the unconverted European residents of “this land.” You should be able to see that for yourself just by reading the material. As a quick example, Nephi explains who the “gentiles” are in 1 Ne. 13: 14. Moroni explains who they are in the Title Page of the Book of Mormon written by him. Joseph Smith identifies the church as “gentiles” by identity. (D&C 109: 60.) We, the latter-day saints to whom the Book of Mormon was given, and who are among the very few readers of the text, are the “gentiles” of prophecy. Notwithstanding that status, there are many among the “gentiles” who have blood of Jacob in them. They are potentially candidates for restoration to the House of Israel. They are the intended targets of the restoration, but their restoration will not be completed until they are adopted back to the line of “the fathers” who are able to save them from the coming harvest.

And, of course, the Title Page of The Book of Mormon, which was part of the translated text says clearly it was written to/for Jew & Gentile & remnants of the Lehites, and all the House of Israel, etc. Not just to the LDS. The Bible is also for the whole world, not just those who will read it.

So, to one of Underdog's points, not everything said by a Snufferite is from Snuffer - they tend to play telephone with some of the stuff he's taught.

[Thomas]

I think the point is the LDS should not exclude themselves from being Gentiles and in fact, cannot exclude themselves without some serious cog dis.

That doesn't mean other non- LDS people are not also Gentiles

If the LDS are not part of the Gentiles or not the Gentiles referred to in the BOM, I would certainly like for someone to tell me who they are so that I may join with them. It is prophesied that the Gentiles will do God's work.

I think the LDS want to have it both ways. If the prophecy is about something good, then it is about them. If the prophecy is bad, then they will not acknowledge that it applies to them. That applies to both the BoM and the D&C. For the D&C, there can be no doubt as to is being referred to.

Imagine raising a child and never correcting that child but only telling the child that everything they do is good. That is the mentality of the LDS church and their apologetic members.

[Jesef]

There is another issue or aspect that is not often addressed and that is: how much (to what degree) do the promises, blessings, and reprimands, and "cursings" or even condemnation from the distant past - let's just focus on 1830's until now - up to and including anything prior to one's own birth - how much does all that stuff apply to us individually? It makes no sense that we would be under any kind of condemnation earned by former generations. That's iniquitous and ridiculous and ascribes to God attributes that do not seem perfect or holy.

I see the same sort of ascribing of past sins and errors of past Church leaders to current Church leaders. How does that make sense? How does anything to do with, say, Official Declaration 1 (Wilford Woodruff) have any reflection on Thomas S. Monson, for example? Must we hold the current generation responsible or culpable for ALL of LDS/Mormon history and culture? Seems ridiculous.

[Thomas]

There is another issue or aspect that is not often addressed and that is: how much (to what degree) do the promises, blessings, and reprimands, and "cursings" or even condemnation from the distant past - let's just focus on 1830's until now - up to and including anything prior to one's own birth - how much does all that stuff apply to us individually? It makes no sense that we would be under any kind of condemnation earned by former generations. That's iniquitous and ridiculous and ascribes to God attributes that do not seem perfect or holy.

I see the same sort of ascribing of past sins and errors of past Church leaders to current Church leaders. How does that make sense? How does anything to do with, say, Official Declaration 1 (Wilford Woodruff) have any reflection on Thomas S. Monson, for example? Must we hold the current generation responsible or culpable for ALL of LDS/Mormon history and culture? Seems ridiculous.

That really misses the point which is we claim to have inherited something from these people. It is true, we have inherited something from them which is a state of condemnation.

What you are saying would makes sense if we didn't claim to have inherited special status. In fact, all the church's claims rest with those who came under condemnation and none of the claims come from modern times.

[Arenera]

There is another issue or aspect that is not often addressed and that is: how much (to what degree) do the promises, blessings, and reprimands, and "cursings" or even condemnation from the distant past - let's just focus on 1830's until now - up to and including anything prior to one's own birth - how much does all that stuff apply to us individually? It makes no sense that we would be under any kind of condemnation earned by former generations. That's iniquitous and ridiculous and ascribes to God attributes that do not seem perfect or holy.

I see the same sort of ascribing of past sins and errors of past Church leaders to current Church leaders. How does that make sense? How does anything to do with, say, Official Declaration 1 (Wilford Woodruff) have any reflection on Thomas S. Monson, for example? Must we hold the current generation responsible or culpable for ALL of LDS/Mormon history and culture? Seems ridiculous.

That really misses the point which is we claim to have inherited something from these people. It is true, we have inherited something from them which is a state of condemnation.

What you are saying would makes sense if we didn't claim to have inherited special status. In fact, all the church's claims rest with those who came under condemnation and none of the claims come from modern times.

What do you have to offer, whether for a Mormon, Catholic, etc?

[Thomas]

There is another issue or aspect that is not often addressed and that is: how much (to what degree) do the promises, blessings, and reprimands, and "cursings" or even condemnation from the distant past - let's just focus on 1830's until now - up to and including anything prior to one's own birth - how much does all that stuff apply to us individually? It makes no sense that we would be under any kind of condemnation earned by former generations. That's iniquitous and ridiculous and ascribes to God attributes that do not seem perfect or holy.

I see the same sort of ascribing of past sins and errors of past Church leaders to current Church leaders. How does that make sense? How does anything to do with, say, Official Declaration 1 (Wilford Woodruff) have any reflection on Thomas S. Monson, for example? Must we hold the current generation responsible or culpable for ALL of LDS/Mormon history and culture? Seems ridiculous.

That really misses the point which is we claim to have inherited something from these people. It is true, we have inherited something from them which is a state of condemnation.

What you are saying would makes sense if we didn't claim to have inherited special status. In fact, all the church's claims rest with those who came under condemnation and none of the claims come from modern times.

What do you have to offer, whether for a Mormon, Catholic, etc?

Repentance and Christ.

[Arenera]

There is another issue or aspect that is not often addressed and that is: how much (to what degree) do the promises, blessings, and reprimands, and "cursings" or even condemnation from the distant past - let's just focus on 1830's until now - up to and including anything prior to one's own birth - how much does all that stuff apply to us individually? It makes no sense that we would be under any kind of condemnation earned by former generations. That's iniquitous and ridiculous and ascribes to God attributes that do not seem perfect or holy.

I see the same sort of ascribing of past sins and errors of past Church leaders to current Church leaders. How does that make sense? How does anything to do with, say, Official Declaration 1 (Wilford Woodruff) have any reflection on Thomas S. Monson, for example? Must we hold the current generation responsible or culpable for ALL of LDS/Mormon history and culture? Seems ridiculous.

That really misses the point which is we claim to have inherited something from these people. It is true, we have inherited something from them which is a state of condemnation.

What you are saying would makes sense if we didn't claim to have inherited special status. In fact, all the church's claims rest with those who came under condemnation and none of the claims come from modern times.

What do you have to offer, whether for a Mormon, Catholic, etc?

Repentance and Christ.

So why don't you preach that instead of blasting the Church? You are just promoting the negative stuff, not the positive stuff. I'm not even sure you know the positive stuff.

[Thomas]

You need to know why you need to repent or you wont repent.

[Arenera]

You need to know why you need to repent or you wont repent.

What do you say to a Catholic?

[Jesef]

I don’t think it makes any sense (in accordance with perfect divine justice and mercy), nor do I believe, that we (this current generation) inherited condemnation from anyone from the past, including the JS and post-JS LDS. Think a little bit harder about the implications of that. That’s a loaded gun, a tipped scale. It makes NO sense. I reject it. I am accountable for my own soul and choices, no one else’s. The Atonement prohibits it at best. I believe this is expressed quite the same way in AoF #2, substitute anyone else or any group for “Adam” in that article. We don’t inherit condemnation and sin. We don’t inherit personality or our character or our individual soul traits, and we don’t inherit punishment (that we deserve). Bogus.

[Jesef]

And what do we, collectively (the mainstream LDS Church or its members), need to repent of, Thomas, that you and the Snuffer-Remnant have repented of?

[underdog]

I don’t think it makes any sense (in accordance with perfect divine justice and mercy), nor do I believe, that we (this current generation) inherited condemnation from anyone from the past, including the JS and post-JS LDS. Think a little bit harder about the implications of that. That’s a loaded gun, a tipped scale. It makes NO sense. I reject it. I am accountable for my own soul and choices, no one else’s. The Atonement prohibits it at best. I believe this is expressed quite the same way in AoF #2, substitute anyone else or any group for “Adam” in that article. We don’t inherit condemnation and sin. We don’t inherit personality or our character or our individual soul traits, and we don’t inherit punishment (that we deserve). Bogus.

There is: Collective condemnation. Or collective "I am well pleased".

This can be distinguished from...

Individual condemnation or salvation.


Jesef, what do you think the Lord means when He says,

And the iniquity and transgression of my holy laws and commandments I will visit upon the heads of those who hindered my work, unto the third and fourth generation, so long as they repent not, and hate me, saith the Lord God.

DC 124

And...

13 And again: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them; for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generations of them that hate me;

14 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

Mosiah 13

And...

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Exo 20

Seems like the clue is in DC 124, when He says "so long as".

I think you're right. The Lord does't cast a spell and condemn whole generations. Perhaps the wording is more indicative of how things usually play out. Perhaps it takes that long? But the "so long as" qualifier allows at least for individuals to repent and come unto Him.

What do you think?

[Thomas]

I don’t think it makes any sense (in accordance with perfect divine justice and mercy), nor do I believe, that we (this current generation) inherited condemnation from anyone from the past, including the JS and post-JS LDS. Think a little bit harder about the implications of that. That’s a loaded gun, a tipped scale. It makes NO sense. I reject it. I am accountable for my own soul and choices, no one else’s. The Atonement prohibits it at best. I believe this is expressed quite the same way in AoF #2, substitute anyone else or any group for “Adam” in that article. We don’t inherit condemnation and sin. We don’t inherit personality or our character or our individual soul traits, and we don’t inherit punishment (that we deserve). Bogus.

Well, even if you wont accept condemnation, there is still the matter of what we have inherited.

What have we, this generation received from God? It all stems from Joseph Smith, then to Brigham and so on. If that was corrupted, then what we inherited was corrupted.

No different than the middle ages and throughout many generations of the earth.

And what of the Jews? do they deserve what they have got for the last 2,000 years? And yet, it is a just God has decried that punishment upon them. He will reclaim them but what of all those generations lost?

By your logic, the Jews should still be in good standing. And many believe they are.

I suspect there is much to this plan of salvation we don't know about it and God has eternity to make it all work

[Arenera]

I don’t think it makes any sense (in accordance with perfect divine justice and mercy), nor do I believe, that we (this current generation) inherited condemnation from anyone from the past, including the JS and post-JS LDS. Think a little bit harder about the implications of that. That’s a loaded gun, a tipped scale. It makes NO sense. I reject it. I am accountable for my own soul and choices, no one else’s. The Atonement prohibits it at best. I believe this is expressed quite the same way in AoF #2, substitute anyone else or any group for “Adam” in that article. We don’t inherit condemnation and sin. We don’t inherit personality or our character or our individual soul traits, and we don’t inherit punishment (that we deserve). Bogus.

Well, even if you wont accept condemnation, there is still the matter of what we have inherited.

What have we, this generation received from God? It all stems from Joseph Smith, then to Brigham and so on. If that was corrupted, then what we inherited was corrupted.

No different than the middle ages and throughout many generations of the earth.

And what of the Jews? do they deserve what they have got for the last 2,000 years? And yet, it is a just God has decried that punishment upon them. He will reclaim them but what of all those generations lost?

By your logic, the Jews should still be in good standing. And many believe they are.

I suspect there is much to this plan of salvation we don't know about it and God has eternity to make it all work

This has nothing to do with repentance.

Repent ye Thomas and underdog or your posterity will feel it for 4 generations.

[Thomas]

And what do we, collectively (the mainstream LDS Church or its members), need to repent of, Thomas, that you and the Snuffer-Remnant have repented of?

Have you really missed that? I am sure you have been reading a lot of these threads but here is a short list:

Idolatry- Leader worship. Putting leaders ahead of God.

Pride- thinking our status is greater than it is.

Being carnally minded.- putting the pursuit of money ahead of caring for the poor.

Not living the precepts of the Book of Mormon- inequality between members and between leaders and members. Popular leaders. Envying positions of rank. Living the precepts of Korihor by living in competition with each other. Digging a pit for our neighbor.

Not living the Sermon on the Mount. Perverting the teachings of Christ and not living them. Teaching it is OK to live by a lower standard.

Denying the fullness of the gospel as found in D&C 84.

Denying the power of the Holy Ghost- Only allowing it to confirm what a leader teaches.

Not living the Doctrine of Christ as found in 3 Nephi 11 and D&C 10: 66-68.- Requiring loyalty to church leaders before baptism. Adding and subtracting from the requirements for salvation.

Just a small list. I could add much more but this is more than sufficient

[Jesef]

All collective judgments. Not true in SO MANY individual cases. (accidentally deleted the rest of my original comment)

[Thomas]

I think you right that God doesn't save us collectively. He does so individually. However what constitutes salvation for one does so for all and that applies to all generations. The requirement are the same for all generations

To repent means to return or in other words turn your course. It does not necessarily mean a person has achieved salvation. It means they have turned their course. The baptism the church offers adds to the requirements that Christ has set. We have repented of that. Some of the things you have listed as "same", I will agree that some will live by the principles and others wont. But as a whole, the church teaches doctrine that leads away from these things.
Perhaps a few members have not denied the fullness of the gospel, however the church leaders have denied it and teach this to the members.

They also teach Idolatry. They also teach inequality. They also teach the doctrine of Korihor. They also teach your Holy Ghost is wrong if it conflicts with theirs. They also teach to be prideful.

So, if the church was put under condemnation for not living the precepts of the Book of Mormon, why would you think we would not be under the same condemnation when we don't live by them either?

Do you think the requirement has changed? Do you think the requirements for salvation have changed?

[Jesef]

Baloney, baloney, and more baloney. I’m going to throw up with that much baloney.

Please demonstrate, with proper quotes, how the current LDS leaders are teaching all that baloney (please don’t quote dead ones - current leaders aren’t accountable for past leaders’ errors).

Also, why would the Lord reject the current generation and every generation (collectively) since Nauvoo for not quite (let’s say, with the attic burning) “completing” the Nauvoo Temple when our generation, in fact, did complete the Nauvoo Temple? Also, why would the Lord command those Nauvoo saints to do so many other building projects if the only one He really cared about (and was willing to reject them for) was the Temple, why not “stop everything else, people, and get that dang Temple done!”? Also, why would He forgive them for not completing the Independence Temple due to their enemies’ interference but not Nauvoo where they were under similar persecutions? Why punish the faithful for the acts of apostates, too, while we are at it - or other wolves for that matter?

[Thomas]

Why would you think we would reap the blessings of uncompleted work?

[Thomas]

If leaders set themselves as the mouthpiece of God and do not teach us to live in accordance with the principles of the BoM and the other things I have mentioned, then they lead us away from those things. Many of the things I have stated should be self evident.

[Jesef]

Actual current leader quotes that debunk your accusations, Thomas:

And what do we, collectively (the mainstream LDS Church or its members), need to repent of, Thomas, that you and the Snuffer-Remnant have repented of?

Have you really missed that? I am sure you have been reading a lot of these threads but here is a short list:

Idolatry- Leader worship. Putting leaders ahead of God. Collective judgment. Not true in SO MANY individual cases.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/05/gene ... u?lang=eng

I can almost see the Savior, looking with infinite love into the faces of those faithful and believing disciples (James & John, vying for positions at The Lord's right and left hands - “Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.”). I can almost hear His pleading voice: “This is not the way it shall be among you. Instead, whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.”4

In God’s kingdom, greatness and leadership means seeing others as they truly are—as God sees them—and then reaching out and ministering to them. It means rejoicing with those who are happy, weeping with those who grieve, lifting up those in distress, and loving our neighbor as Christ loves us. The Savior loves all of God’s children regardless of their socioeconomic circumstance, race, religion, language, political orientation, nationality, or any other grouping. And so should we!

God’s greatest reward goes to those who serve without expectation of reward. It goes to those who serve without fanfare; those who quietly go about seeking ways to help others; those who minister to others simply because they love God and God’s children.
...
Shortly after my call as a new General Authority, I had the privilege to accompany President James E. Faust for a stake reorganization. As I drove the car to our assignment in beautiful Southern Utah, President Faust was kind enough to use the time to instruct and teach me. One lesson I will never forget. Said he, “The members of the Church are gracious to the General Authorities. They will treat you kindly and say nice things about you.” Then he briefly paused and said, “Dieter, always be thankful for this, but don’t you ever inhale it.”

This important lesson about Church service applies to every priesthood holder in every quorum of the Church. It applies to all of us in this Church.
...
As Saints of the Most High God, we are to “remember in all things the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted, for he that doeth not these things, the same is not my disciple.”7 Opportunities to go about doing good and to serve others are limitless. We can find them in our communities, in our wards and branches, and certainly in our homes.

In addition, every member of the Church is given specific formal opportunities to serve. We refer to these opportunities as “callings”—a term that should remind us of who it is that calls us to serve. If we approach our callings as opportunities to serve God and minister to others with faith and humility, every act of service will be a step on the path of discipleship. In this way, God not only builds up His Church but also builds up His servants. The Church is designed to help us become true and faithful disciples of Christ, good and noble sons and daughters of God. This happens not just when we go to meetings and listen to talks but also when we get outside ourselves and serve. This is how we become “great” in the kingdom of God.

We accept callings with grace, humility, and gratitude. When we are released from these callings, we accept the change with the same grace, humility, and gratitude.

In the eyes of God, there is no calling in the kingdom that is more important than another. Our service—whether great or small—refines our spirits, opens the windows of heaven, and releases God’s blessings not only upon those we serve but upon us as well. When we reach out to others, we can know with humble confidence that God acknowledges our service with approval and approbation. He smiles upon us as we offer these heartfelt acts of compassion, especially acts that are unseen and unnoticed by others.8

Each time we give of ourselves to others, we take a step closer to becoming good and true disciples of the One who gave His all for us: our Savior.

Read the whole talk, Thomas. You've accused the leaders of teaching idolatry, teaching us to venerate and worship them and put them before The Lord. The burden of proof is on you to validate that accusation. They never teach this. They teach the opposite. Please show me in President Uchtdorf's very recent talk (May 2017) where he teaches what you are accusing and not the exact opposite. We'll go point by point. You are generalizing the aspiring behavior of SOME priesthood leaders to the whole barrel. I'm showing a current, recent example from the highest quorum in the Church, in General Conference. If the leaders can be judged collectively, as a group, the way you are doing, then they can be exonerated as a group, by any one of them teaching the opposite of what you are accusing.

[underdog]

Actual current leader quotes that debunk your accusations, Thomas:

And what do we, collectively (the mainstream LDS Church or its members), need to repent of, Thomas, that you and the Snuffer-Remnant have repented of?

Have you really missed that? I am sure you have been reading a lot of these threads but here is a short list:

Idolatry- Leader worship. Putting leaders ahead of God. Collective judgment. Not true in SO MANY individual cases.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2017/05/gene ... u?lang=eng

I can almost see the Savior, looking with infinite love into the faces of those faithful and believing disciples (James & John, vying for positions at The Lord's right and left hands - “Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.”). I can almost hear His pleading voice: “This is not the way it shall be among you. Instead, whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.”4

In God’s kingdom, greatness and leadership means seeing others as they truly are—as God sees them—and then reaching out and ministering to them. It means rejoicing with those who are happy, weeping with those who grieve, lifting up those in distress, and loving our neighbor as Christ loves us. The Savior loves all of God’s children regardless of their socioeconomic circumstance, race, religion, language, political orientation, nationality, or any other grouping. And so should we!

God’s greatest reward goes to those who serve without expectation of reward. It goes to those who serve without fanfare; those who quietly go about seeking ways to help others; those who minister to others simply because they love God and God’s children.
...
Shortly after my call as a new General Authority, I had the privilege to accompany President James E. Faust for a stake reorganization. As I drove the car to our assignment in beautiful Southern Utah, President Faust was kind enough to use the time to instruct and teach me. One lesson I will never forget. Said he, “The members of the Church are gracious to the General Authorities. They will treat you kindly and say nice things about you.” Then he briefly paused and said, “Dieter, always be thankful for this, but don’t you ever inhale it.”

This important lesson about Church service applies to every priesthood holder in every quorum of the Church. It applies to all of us in this Church.
...
As Saints of the Most High God, we are to “remember in all things the poor and the needy, the sick and the afflicted, for he that doeth not these things, the same is not my disciple.”7 Opportunities to go about doing good and to serve others are limitless. We can find them in our communities, in our wards and branches, and certainly in our homes.

In addition, every member of the Church is given specific formal opportunities to serve. We refer to these opportunities as “callings”—a term that should remind us of who it is that calls us to serve. If we approach our callings as opportunities to serve God and minister to others with faith and humility, every act of service will be a step on the path of discipleship. In this way, God not only builds up His Church but also builds up His servants. The Church is designed to help us become true and faithful disciples of Christ, good and noble sons and daughters of God. This happens not just when we go to meetings and listen to talks but also when we get outside ourselves and serve. This is how we become “great” in the kingdom of God.

We accept callings with grace, humility, and gratitude. When we are released from these callings, we accept the change with the same grace, humility, and gratitude.

In the eyes of God, there is no calling in the kingdom that is more important than another. Our service—whether great or small—refines our spirits, opens the windows of heaven, and releases God’s blessings not only upon those we serve but upon us as well. When we reach out to others, we can know with humble confidence that God acknowledges our service with approval and approbation. He smiles upon us as we offer these heartfelt acts of compassion, especially acts that are unseen and unnoticed by others.8

Each time we give of ourselves to others, we take a step closer to becoming good and true disciples of the One who gave His all for us: our Savior.

Read the whole talk, Thomas. You've accused the leaders of teaching idolatry, teaching us to venerate and worship them and put them before The Lord. The burden of proof is on you to validate that accusation. They never teach this. They teach the opposite. Please show me in President Uchtdorf's very recent talk (May 2017) where he teaches what you are accusing and not the exact opposite. We'll go point by point. You are generalizing the aspiring behavior of SOME priesthood leaders to the whole barrel. I'm showing a current, recent example from the highest quorum in the Church, in General Conference. If the leaders can be judged collectively, as a group, the way you are doing, then they can be exonerated as a group, by any one of them teaching the opposite of what you are accusing.

Jesef,

Which of them has gone on record to condemn the damning, pernicious WW excerpt added to OD1 in 1981? Saying nothing means they condone that idolatrous and 100% antiChrist precept of "we can't be led astray". That precept is 100% Satanic and opposed to the Atonement and AT THE ROOT of the Church's collective idolatry. The Church is collectively damned on this alone.

The other point is, to be a good wolf you must act like a sheep and look like a sheep.

Therefore, to play the part of a good sheep, one would EXPECT most teachings to appear to be of Christ. The effect of DS is to cause the costumed sheep to sharpen their game and appearance. "Competition", so to speak, causes one to get better.

I've also listed many other facts that expose the Church, such as the tendency of corrupt businesses to outlaw competition. Rockefeller said, "Competition is a sin." From the devil's standpoint, it sure is. In every tyranny you see blatant attempts to monopolize power and eliminate competition. Casting out the voice of God via DS is the best example. But the Church doesn't stop there. Anybody disobedient to men (not Christ) must be eliminated. See Section 6.7.3 of CHI 1. And books or any attempt that teaches a version of history contrary to what certain men say must be eliminated. Competition, the Church believes, is a sin, BECAUSE it believes it cannot lead people astray.

Section 6.7.3 of CHI 1 is irrefutable, factual evidence of Church apostasy. It attempts to crush dissent by eliminating voices of opposition. It results in censorship. It results in a body of believers being afraid to speak up and question things. It is designed to create fear. It oppresses.

Perfect love casts out fear and doesn't create it! Jesus taught us very clearly how to know who His disciples are/ were:

34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

John 13

Section 6.7.3 exposes the frauds. Does it not? Where is the love by forcing someone to obey you on threat of death??? Whomever cites this as reason to pronounce death (excommunication) shows himself to be a tyrant and not a disciple of Christ. Is this not true? Please answer honestly Jesef.

Also, Jesef, who in the paid, salaried Church objects to this CHI 1 handbook section?

[Thomas]

Jesef, I think it is an undisputed fact that the leaders have set parameters to what members can bear testimony of. Two of the 5 basics are testimony of the brethren and testimony of the church. Both items are misplaced faith and promotes idolatry. Only faith in in Christ saves a person. Any thing that directs faith in anything but Christ is idolatry.

I know many do not understand this because they are accustomed to it.

And lets not forget, the church prints up many thousands of pictures of the brethren so they can be displayed in churches world wide. Imagine if Moses come down from mount Sinai and started passing out pictures of himself. Show me anywhere in scripture that kind of behavior is correct.

You are so close to it, you cant see how wrong it is

[shadow]

The following is a message from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The letter—dated February 14, 2013, and signed by the First Presidency—was also read in sacrament meeting:

“In the past the First Presidency has expressed concern that in some instances, members who desire to bear their testimonies in fast and testimony meeting do not have the opportunity to do so. Bishoprics are again encouraged to help all people learn to express a brief, heartfelt testimony of our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ, and the truths of the restored gospel so that more members may have the opportunity to participate."

[Thomas]

The leaders could put a stop to this idol worship, if they wanted to. But they do not.