Have we neglected the Word of Wisdom?

[Jesef]

If someone is obese or even unhealthily overweight, that should certainly be a violation of a "law of health" - many of the health issues in the Western world are related to carrying around too much extra fat. And yet our chapels and temples are filled with obese people.

[Arenera]

If someone is obese or even unhealthily overweight, that should certainly be a violation of a "law of health" - many of the health issues in the Western world are related to carrying around too much extra fat. And yet our chapels and temples are filled with obese people.

Christ provided the answer 184 years ago. The Word of Wisdom.

Yes, that means eating grains, vegetables and fruits. We don't need meat, dairy, or oils (except to bless ).

We have been duped by the world. It is time to awaken. When we do, the promised spiritual blessings will flow too.

[Serragon]

If someone is obese or even unhealthily overweight, that should certainly be a violation of a "law of health" - many of the health issues in the Western world are related to carrying around too much extra fat. And yet our chapels and temples are filled with obese people.

Christ provided the answer 184 years ago. The Word of Wisdom.

Yes, that means eating grains, vegetables and fruits. We don't need meat, dairy, or oils (except to bless ).

We have been duped by the world. It is time to awaken. When we do, the promised spiritual blessings will flow too.

Your synopsis is not the word of wisdom. Like all of your posts in this thread, you are confusing your own beliefs about proper nutrition with what the Lord actually revealed.

Why did the Lord reveal this? Not because Emma thought tobacco was gross. The Lord tells us specifically in D&C 4 that it was because of the evil designs of conspiring men in our dispensation. All of the do's and don'ts should be viewed from this prism. What would conspiring men have meant at the time of the revelation?

This verse is the key to understanding the rest. It was not given to avoid heart disease. It was not given to avoid diabetes. These might be benefits, but since there is very little actual science in the realm of nutrition it is really unclear. And it isn't the point anyway.

Here is what the Lord revealed:

No - Strong drink or wine for drinking
No - tobacco for the body of man
No - hot drinks (not mention of coffee or tea)

Yes - wine of your own make for sacrament
Yes - strong drink for washing
Yes - tobacco for the injuries of cattle
Yes - wholesome herbs in season
Yes - fruit in season
Yes - meat sparingly
Yes - grain
Yes - wheat for man; oats for horse, rye for birds and domesticated animals, barley for useful animals and mild drinks
Yes - fruit from vines
Yes -- mild drinks from barley

That is it. It says nothing about dairy at all, either good or bad. It says nothing about oils. It specifically says you should eat meat. It says nothing about being fat, although it does mention sparingly and prudently in eating meat and fruit.


Confusion arises from some seeming inconsistencies in the revelation.

Verse 14 says all grain is ordained for man and beast. Verse 16 says all grain is good for man. Verse 17 then identifies which grains are to be used by which creatures... Man is only allocated wheat and barley for beer.

Verse 15 says that "these" things should only be used in times of famine and excess hunger. It is a continuation of the sentence in Verse 14. The subject of verse 14 is "grain", with the different types of animals listed as also using the grain. Most saints believe the word "these" refers to the animals, some even specifically to the wild animals. But proper reading of the sentence indicates that these would be referring to the subject which is the grain.

Verse 13 refers to animals being used only in times of winter, cold, or famine. But the comma was not there originally. Should it have been? I don't know, but without the comma it means meat is to be used at all times, albeit sparingly and prudently.

If you interpret verses 14 and 13 as originally written and with proper grammar, you realize that what the Lord might actually be saying is that meat is the main thing to eat (sparingly meaning only what you need) while grains are to be stored and used in times of famine and hardship.

Using the early saints as a guide doesn't help either. It is impossible to know how they interpreted these things as they ate meat and bread in abundance in all seasons.

[Crackers]

Serragon, I am wondering if you really think that we have culturally altered the meaning of verses 13-15 regarding the use of meats and grains, or if you are just making an argument. I can see your argument as a grammatical issue, but logically, it doesn't seem to hold any weight. Sometimes scriptures are written in difficult language, but it seems clear to me that D&C 89 says eat lots of grains and little meat, especially when you consider related scriptures.
I also don't see that it says anywhere specifically that you should eat meat. It seems to read that we can eat meat, but in general shouldn't, and it should be sparingly when we do. To argue the opposite just seems like an exercise in debate, which is fine. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

[Yahtzee]

I'm wondering where the no eggs, milk, or oil thing came from. I know that for my body, dairy is a no, but I don't see where in the WOW that is.

[Arenera]

Meat, no way. Are we in a famine? Only in understanding the Word of Wisdom.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/dan/1 ... ang=eng#p4

Want to be 10 times better? Daniel and his friends did just that on a whole foods plant diet. No milk. No wine.

.5 And the king appointed them a daily provision of the king’s meat, and of the wine which he drank: so nourishing them three years, that at the end thereof they might stand before the king.

8 ¶ But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king’s meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.

10 And the prince of the eunuchs said unto Daniel, I fear my lord the king, who hath appointed your meat and your drink: for why should he see your faces worse liking than the children which are of your sort? then shall ye make me endanger my head to the king.

12 Prove thy servants, I beseech thee, ten days; and let them give us pulse to eat, and water to drink.

13 Then let our countenances be looked upon before thee, and the countenance of the children that eat of the portion of the king’s meat: and as thou seest, deal with thy servants.

15 And at the end of ten days their countenances appeared fairer and fatter in flesh than all the children which did eat the portion of the king’s meat.

16 Thus Melzar took away the portion of their meat, and the wine that they should drink; and gave them pulse.

17 ¶ As for these four children, God gave them knowledge and skill in all learning and wisdom: and Daniel had understanding in all dvisions and dreams.

18 Now at the end of the days that the king had said he should bring them in, then the prince of the eunuchs brought them in before Nebuchadnezzar.

19 And the king communed with them; and among them all was found none like Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah: therefore stood they before the king.

20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king inquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and astrologers that were in all his realm.

[Arenera]

I'm wondering where the no eggs, milk, or oil thing came from. I know that for my body, dairy is a no, but I don't see where in the WOW that is.

From the book: Discovering the Word of Wisdom:

Dairy and eggs are not specifically mentioned in the Word of Wisdom—neither are Twinkies or Junior Mints. I conclude that none of these are as important to our health as are plants. Here, however, is an area where I realize I am stepping outside the wording of the Word of Wisdom to form an opinion. While WFPB experts feel the evidence is especially strong that dairy is one of the most unhealthy foods on the planet, the Word of Wisdom does not provide us with the same clear warning. Instead, as is so often the case with scripture, we must use our best judgment when it comes to discerning many of the practical implications of this revelation. In this case, I believe science provides us with ample evidence to help us study this question out in our minds.

The following is my approach to the question of dairy and eggs. While it is true that the Word of Wisdom does not specifically warn against dairy or eggs, it also includes absolutely nothing to promote their consumption.

Instead, the Word of Wisdom counsels us to rely on plants (vegetables, fruits, and grains), and avoid the flesh of animals (except in times of need), for optimal health and spiritual blessings. Given the emphasis on the importance of plant foods and the admonition to use the flesh of animals only in times of need, on what basis would we conclude that consuming dairy or eggs would be wise for our health? While there are some distinct differences, the nutritional profile of dairy and eggs is so similar to meat (and so distinct from plant foods) that we can consider them “liquid meat.”

Like meat, dairy and eggs are not the original source of any essential nutrients. Like meat, dairy and eggs can provide nutrients to the human body, but they are not superior to plants in providing these nutrients, especially in light of the drawbacks. Like meat, the nutrients they do contain are packaged with much more that harms than helps our bodies (assuming we are not consuming them for survival reasons). Like meat, dairy and eggs contain too much protein, fat (especially saturated fat), cholesterol, calories, hormones, bacteria, and pollutants. Dairy, in fact, may be the most unhealthy food Americans routinely consume.

[Serragon]

Serragon, I am wondering if you really think that we have culturally altered the meaning of verses 13-15 regarding the use of meats and grains, or if you are just making an argument. I can see your argument as a grammatical issue, but logically, it doesn't seem to hold any weight. Sometimes scriptures are written in difficult language, but it seems clear to me that D&C 89 says eat lots of grains and little meat, especially when you consider related scriptures.
I also don't see that it says anywhere specifically that you should eat meat. It seems to read that we can eat meat, but in general shouldn't, and it should be sparingly when we do. To argue the opposite just seems like an exercise in debate, which is fine. Just wondering what your thoughts are.

Overall, my personal belief is very similar to what you stated. I do find the issue w/ grain to be genuinely confusing, however. Why specify all grain for man then allocate only wheat to humans?

My understanding is that there are a few specific things we should not be putting in our bodies. Otherwise, all vegetables (herbs), fruit, and animals are to be used by us w/ moderation and thanksgiving.

My real issue is with people having their own faith based and passionate beliefs about nutrition and constantly proselytizing them as being part of the WOW. It is used as a judgement tool by many.

We had a lesson at church a few weeks ago. Nearly every nutritional belief out there was parroted by somebody as being part of the WOW. Aneara has demonstrated this in spades for us throughout this thread.

It is regrettable to me that such a beautiful revelation for our own benefit is used as a hammer by so many to determine righteousness or as a way to make themselves feel superior to others.

[Yahtzee]

At least they acknowledge it as their opinion. That's fine if they choose to interpret it that way for themselves, but I disagree with it.
John A Widtsoe says otherwise in his WOW book.
Ultimately though, it shows that one size does not fit all and we need to seek the direction of the Spirit.

I'm wondering where the no eggs, milk, or oil thing came from. I know that for my body, dairy is a no, but I don't see where in the WOW that is.

From the book: Discovering the Word of Wisdom:

Dairy and eggs are not specifically mentioned in the Word of Wisdom—neither are Twinkies or Junior Mints. I conclude that none of these are as important to our health as are plants. Here, however, is an area where I realize I am stepping outside the wording of the Word of Wisdom to form an opinion. While WFPB experts feel the evidence is especially strong that dairy is one of the most unhealthy foods on the planet, the Word of Wisdom does not provide us with the same clear warning. Instead, as is so often the case with scripture, we must use our best judgment when it comes to discerning many of the practical implications of this revelation. In this case, I believe science provides us with ample evidence to help us study this question out in our minds.

The following is my approach to the question of dairy and eggs. While it is true that the Word of Wisdom does not specifically warn against dairy or eggs, it also includes absolutely nothing to promote their consumption.

Instead, the Word of Wisdom counsels us to rely on plants (vegetables, fruits, and grains), and avoid the flesh of animals (except in times of need), for optimal health and spiritual blessings. Given the emphasis on the importance of plant foods and the admonition to use the flesh of animals only in times of need, on what basis would we conclude that consuming dairy or eggs would be wise for our health? While there are some distinct differences, the nutritional profile of dairy and eggs is so similar to meat (and so distinct from plant foods) that we can consider them “liquid meat.”

Like meat, dairy and eggs are not the original source of any essential nutrients. Like meat, dairy and eggs can provide nutrients to the human body, but they are not superior to plants in providing these nutrients, especially in light of the drawbacks. Like meat, the nutrients they do contain are packaged with much more that harms than helps our bodies (assuming we are not consuming them for survival reasons). Like meat, dairy and eggs contain too much protein, fat (especially saturated fat), cholesterol, calories, hormones, bacteria, and pollutants. Dairy, in fact, may be the most unhealthy food Americans routinely consume.

[Arenera]

The word "moderation" is not in the Word of Wisdom.

Sparingly is. What is the definition?

adjective
1.
economical (often followed by in or of).
2.
lenient or merciful.
3.
scanty; limited.

More importantly in verse 13:
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Do we want to please God?

From Hyrum Smith:

[God] knows what course to pursue to restore mankind to their pristine excellency and primitive vigor, and health; and he has appointed the word of wisdom as one of the engines to bring about this thing, to remove the beastly appetites, the murderous disposition and the vitiated taste of man; to restore his body to health, and vigour, promote peace between him and the brute creation. . . . Let men attend to [the Word of Wisdom], let them use the things ordained of God; let them be sparing of the life of animals; ‘it is pleasing saith the Lord that flesh be used only in times of winter, or of famine’—and why to be used in famine? because all domesticated animals would naturally die, and may as well be made use of by man, as not.

[kittycat51]

Do these "Word of Wisdom" diet books address grains properly? Our grains are NOT our father's grains. Wheat has been so hybridized that the gluten in it is far beyond what many people can tolerate. (thus so MANY gluten sensitive people who are not celiac) Our ancestors soaked grains before they were used, therefore making them easier to digest.

[kittycat51]

I'm wondering where the no eggs, milk, or oil thing came from. I know that for my body, dairy is a no, but I don't see where in the WOW that is.

Agreed, is this just personal opinions in the belief system? I know as a fact that many of my pioneer ancestors (who would be closer to the WOW time frame of being revealed) had many chickens and ate plenty of eggs accompanied by plenty of lard. (and plenty of butter)

[Arenera]

Do these "Word of Wisdom" diet books address grains properly? Our grains are NOT our father's grains. Wheat has been so hybridized that the gluten in it is far beyond what many people can tolerate. (thus so MANY gluten sensitive people who are not celiac) Our ancestors soaked grains before they were used, therefore making them easier to digest.

This may or may not be of help:

https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-smo ... gs.tPLows4

[Yahtzee]

Do these "Word of Wisdom" diet books address grains properly? Our grains are NOT our father's grains. Wheat has been so hybridized that the gluten in it is far beyond what many people can tolerate. (thus so MANY gluten sensitive people who are not celiac) Our ancestors soaked grains before they were used, therefore making them easier to digest.

FWIW, I've found that I can eat wheat if I use natural sourdough starter - like our ancestors did until active dry yeast was invented. I also can't eat enriched flour. I have to grind my own or buy from expensive mills if I want white. I've come to have a whole knew understanding for "wholesome".

[passionflower]

IMO, one of the errors in understanding the WOW is believing is disregarding the references to seasonal eating.

"To everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under heaven"

The "season" for eating meat is during wintertime or cold weather ( or as an emergency food supply). In the far north, meat eating is essential, and the eskimo or laplander does not die of heart disease in these situations or become overweight. But have someone in the tropics eat nothing but a steady diet of whale meat and he might get pretty sick. The most difficult part of a raw vegan diet is enduring it during the wintertime. It can't be done in Siberia, that's for sure. And unless you lived in a sunny all year round climate, you would have to outsource all your food at some time or other.

In spite of the popularity of the summer BBQ, most people don't relish consuming meat during the dog days of summer. The season simply does not encourage it. LIghter foods, like fruits and vegetables, which are ripening during this time, are generally more appealing and satisfying.

And about grains, as the "staff of life" they are to be eaten all year round.

I contend that the WOW is a seasonal eating plan, and consuming whole foods that can be naturally sourced in your own area is the best idea.

The WOW is a Principle with a Promise, not a commandment with a blessing. Commandments are here and now, but principles are eternal. Pondering on the foundational principle behind the WOW is very liberating and gets you in touch with the order of God, and you begin to see Him moving in His majesty and power in the mysteries of Godliness. And isn't that part of the promise associated with it?

[AI2.0]

I'm sure you know the don'ts of the Word of Wisdom. There has been plenty of debate of the don'ts and getting a Temple Recommend.

But what about the Do's? Equally or more important than the Don'ts, are we following the do's?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 9?lang=eng

There is a very good topic you should check out in more detail, Discovering the Word of Wisdom:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=46052

Do you know the Do's?

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life,

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

The question that comes to my mind is do YOU neglect the word of wisdom?

In answer for myself--I don't. Most of my family and friends work hard to care for their health, eat right, and they obey the 'don'ts'.

The 'don'ts' are emphasized because they are the standard for determining if one is worthy to enter the temple but the 'do's' are where each of us needs to use discretion and determination. That's one reason why it says it was given that even the 'least' of the saints, in other words, the weakest and most undisciplined, could still try to follow them. I think the problem is that too many are always worried about their neighbors--like Elder Uchtdorf said in a talk;; "I hope brother Johnson is listening, HE needs to hear this'.

How much we live it is up to us--and we reap the blessings of it. It wasn't given so that we'd spend our time looking at our fellow members and tsk tsk about how fat or out of shape they are.

[AI2.0]

IMO, one of the errors in understanding the WOW is believing is disregarding the references to seasonal eating.

"To everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under heaven"

The "season" for eating meat is during wintertime or cold weather ( or as an emergency food supply). In the far north, meat eating is essential, and the eskimo or laplander does not die of heart disease in these situations or become overweight. But have someone in the tropics eat nothing but a steady diet of whale meat and he might get pretty sick. The most difficult part of a raw vegan diet is enduring it during the wintertime. It can't be done in Siberia, that's for sure. And unless you lived in a sunny all year round climate, you would have to outsource all your food at some time or other.

In spite of the popularity of the summer BBQ, most people don't relish consuming meat during the dog days of summer. The season simply does not encourage it. LIghter foods, like fruits and vegetables, which are ripening during this time, are generally more appealing and satisfying.

And about grains, as the "staff of life" they are to be eaten all year round.

I contend that the WOW is a seasonal eating plan, and consuming whole foods that can be naturally sourced in your own area is the best idea.

The WOW is a Principle with a Promise, not a commandment with a blessing. Commandments are here and now, but principles are eternal. Pondering on the foundational principle behind the WOW is very liberating and gets you in touch with the order of God, and you begin to see Him moving in His majesty and power in the mysteries of Godliness. And isn't that part of the promise associated with it?

I've read enough on the original wording and the background of D&C 89 that I think this idea about eating meat in a certain season is NOT what was meant. I believe we are counseled to eat meat sparingly, but I don't think we are actually supposed to only eat meat in the winter--I think that's a problem with the interpretation.

I've heard some people caution against eating fruits and veges out of season, which I think is wrong. It won't hurt me to eat a piece of fruit from Mexico, even though we aren't able to grow them here at this time. An apple is an apple, it doesn't matter where it was grown. Maybe the counsel is more about eating food that is at it's optimal ripeness, in order to gain all the health benefits.

[AI2.0]

The word "moderation" is not in the Word of Wisdom.

Sparingly is. What is the definition?

adjective
1.
economical (often followed by in or of).
2.
lenient or merciful.
3.
scanty; limited.

More importantly in verse 13:
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

Do we want to please God?

From Hyrum Smith:

[God] knows what course to pursue to restore mankind to their pristine excellency and primitive vigor, and health; and he has appointed the word of wisdom as one of the engines to bring about this thing, to remove the beastly appetites, the murderous disposition and the vitiated taste of man; to restore his body to health, and vigour, promote peace between him and the brute creation. . . . Let men attend to [the Word of Wisdom], let them use the things ordained of God; let them be sparing of the life of animals; ‘it is pleasing saith the Lord that flesh be used only in times of winter, or of famine’—and why to be used in famine? because all domesticated animals would naturally die, and may as well be made use of by man, as not.

As I recall, that comma between 'used' and 'only' was added to a later edition of D&C 89. If you remove it, it changes the meaning. And, I recall reading that at this time, in winter some people would eat mostly meat, because they didn't have anything else. So, if you read it from that perspective, it's telling you to eat meat more often, but we are still cautioned to eat it sparingly--I interpret that as not with every meal and when it is served-- small portions. Also, to remember that eating the flesh of animals means there a was a sacrifice of a life and this should not be ignored and taken lightly about appreciated and honored.

Anyway, 'food for thought' ;)

Personally I'm not a big meat eater so I don't care, I could be vegetarian easily.

[kittycat51]

Do these "Word of Wisdom" diet books address grains properly? Our grains are NOT our father's grains. Wheat has been so hybridized that the gluten in it is far beyond what many people can tolerate. (thus so MANY gluten sensitive people who are not celiac) Our ancestors soaked grains before they were used, therefore making them easier to digest.

FWIW, I've found that I can eat wheat if I use natural sourdough starter - like our ancestors did until active dry yeast was invented. I also can't eat enriched flour. I have to grind my own or buy from expensive mills if I want white. I've come to have a whole knew understanding for "wholesome".

You are in Utah aren't you? Have you heard of Abigail's Oven bread? They are Provo based but sell their bread at Good Earth, farmer's markets and a few other places. It is not cheap but delicious and something that I can eat and enjoy! The wheat is locally sourced, organic, non hybrid, non gmo, heirloom grain. They soak their wheat before grinding. It is honest to goodness sourdough. They have it in white, wheat, seeded, cheddar jalapeno, and cinnamon. I buy it and freeze it since I only have a couple of pieces per week.

[Robin Hood]

If someone is obese or even unhealthily overweight, that should certainly be a violation of a "law of health" - many of the health issues in the Western world are related to carrying around too much extra fat. And yet our chapels and temples are filled with obese people.

Christ provided the answer 184 years ago. The Word of Wisdom.

Yes, that means eating grains, vegetables and fruits. We don't need meat, dairy, or oils (except to bless ).

We have been duped by the world. It is time to awaken. When we do, the promised spiritual blessings will flow too.

Your synopsis is not the word of wisdom. Like all of your posts in this thread, you are confusing your own beliefs about proper nutrition with what the Lord actually revealed.

Why did the Lord reveal this? Not because Emma thought tobacco was gross. The Lord tells us specifically in D&C 4 that it was because of the evil designs of conspiring men in our dispensation. All of the do's and don'ts should be viewed from this prism. What would conspiring men have meant at the time of the revelation?

This verse is the key to understanding the rest. It was not given to avoid heart disease. It was not given to avoid diabetes. These might be benefits, but since there is very little actual science in the realm of nutrition it is really unclear. And it isn't the point anyway.

Here is what the Lord revealed:

No - Strong drink or wine for drinking
No - tobacco for the body of man
No - hot drinks (not mention of coffee or tea)

Yes - wine of your own make for sacrament
Yes - strong drink for washing
Yes - tobacco for the injuries of cattle
Yes - wholesome herbs in season
Yes - fruit in season
Yes - meat sparingly
Yes - grain
Yes - wheat for man; oats for horse, rye for birds and domesticated animals, barley for useful animals and mild drinks
Yes - fruit from vines
Yes -- mild drinks from barley

That is it. It says nothing about dairy at all, either good or bad. It says nothing about oils. It specifically says you should eat meat. It says nothing about being fat, although it does mention sparingly and prudently in eating meat and fruit.


Confusion arises from some seeming inconsistencies in the revelation.

Verse 14 says all grain is ordained for man and beast. Verse 16 says all grain is good for man. Verse 17 then identifies which grains are to be used by which creatures... Man is only allocated wheat and barley for beer.

Verse 15 says that "these" things should only be used in times of famine and excess hunger. It is a continuation of the sentence in Verse 14. The subject of verse 14 is "grain", with the different types of animals listed as also using the grain. Most saints believe the word "these" refers to the animals, some even specifically to the wild animals. But proper reading of the sentence indicates that these would be referring to the subject which is the grain.

Verse 13 refers to animals being used only in times of winter, cold, or famine. But the comma was not there originally. Should it have been? I don't know, but without the comma it means meat is to be used at all times, albeit sparingly and prudently.

If you interpret verses 14 and 13 as originally written and with proper grammar, you realize that what the Lord might actually be saying is that meat is the main thing to eat (sparingly meaning only what you need) while grains are to be stored and used in times of famine and hardship.

Using the early saints as a guide doesn't help either. It is impossible to know how they interpreted these things as they ate meat and bread in abundance in all seasons.

Thank you for this comprehensive list.
A couple of points:
1. The WoW is adapted to the weakest of the Saints. It is therefore a minimum, not a maximum standard.
2. Elsewhere in modern revelation we are instructed that we will be held accountable for all flesh and that it should not be wasted.

My view is that eating a vegan diet is probably the most healthy option for us, so long as it is a genuine vegan diet and not one full of processed imitation meat, cheese etc.
Anyone who has watched Parks & Recreation knows what to do with vegan bacon!

I make my own breakfast muesli with oats, barley and wheat, sunflower seeds, pumpkin seeds, pine nuts, hazelnuts, walnuts, almonds, raisins, linseed, ginger etc. I used to have it with some milk or cream but now I use oat cream. It makes no difference to the taste, but is healthier than milk.
Subtle changes such as this are easy to implement but can be quite beneficial.

[Arenera]

I'm sure you know the don'ts of the Word of Wisdom. There has been plenty of debate of the don'ts and getting a Temple Recommend.

But what about the Do's? Equally or more important than the Don'ts, are we following the do's?

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... 9?lang=eng

There is a very good topic you should check out in more detail, Discovering the Word of Wisdom:
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=46052

Do you know the Do's?

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

3 Given for a principle with promise, adapted to the capacity of the weak and the weakest of all saints, who are or can be called saints.

10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

12 Yea, flesh also of beasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used sparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or famine.

14 All grain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life,

16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;

19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;

20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.

21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

The question that comes to my mind is do YOU neglect the word of wisdom?

In answer for myself--I don't. Most of my family and friends work hard to care for their health, eat right, and they obey the 'don'ts'.

The 'don'ts' are emphasized because they are the standard for determining if one is worthy to enter the temple but the 'do's' are where each of us needs to use discretion and determination. That's one reason why it says it was given that even the 'least' of the saints, in other words, the weakest and most undisciplined, could still try to follow them. I think the problem is that too many are always worried about their neighbors--like Elder Uchtdorf said in a talk;; "I hope brother Johnson is listening, HE needs to hear this'.

How much we live it is up to us--and we reap the blessings of it. It wasn't given so that we'd spend our time looking at our fellow members and tsk tsk about how fat or out of shape they are.

You can point the finger of scorn at me, it's ok. I would be the first to admit I have neglected the Do's of the Word of Wisdom, not the dont's.

The point of the thread is to try to bring awareness to the Do's which lead to the amazing blessings and promises. It seems like as Mormons, we have been very successful in the Don'ts. It seems like everyone has their own opinion on what the Lord is trying to tell us. It looks like we have failed (and that includes me) to follow the healthy whole plant based diet the Lord gives to us. How many Mormons are dying from heart disease, diabetes, and the other afflictions that we don't need to be suffering. Is it holding us back from the spiritual blessings we want?

I see the Word of Wisdom the same as what Daniel and his friends lived. They were 10 times stronger in mental and spiritual abilities than those that drank the wine and ate the King's meat.

The soul is our Spirit and our Body. If we aren't taking care of our body, what does that do to our soul?

The Word of Wisdom is more challenging than we might think. It is easy to see someone and exclaim, "My, how fat your are! You must have weak will power." Those who have struggled with being overweight have tried all kinds of ways, but always losing the battle. The world reinforces meat and dairy trying to confuse people on what is really healthy.

"6 And now, behold, I say unto you, that the thing which will be of the most worth unto you will be to declare repentance unto this people, that you may bring souls unto me, that you may rest with them in the kingdom of my Father. Amen."

With the terrible sickness that is covering this land, don't you think the physical part of the souls is just as important to save?

[oneClimbs]

As I recall, that comma between 'used' and 'only' was added to a later edition of D&C 89. If you remove it, it changes the meaning. And, I recall reading that at this time, in winter some people would eat mostly meat, because they didn't have anything else. So, if you read it from that perspective, it's telling you to eat meat more often, but we are still cautioned to eat it sparingly--I interpret that as not with every meal and when it is served-- small portions. Also, to remember that eating the flesh of animals means there a was a sacrifice of a life and this should not be ignored and taken lightly about appreciated and honored.

Anyway, 'food for thought' ;)

Personally I'm not a big meat eater so I don't care, I could be vegetarian easily.

Yeahhhh the comma, but take this into consideration: http://www.mormoninterpreter.com/questi ... of-wisdom/

[Yahtzee]

You are in Utah aren't you? Have you heard of Abigail's Oven bread? They are Provo based but sell their bread at Good Earth, farmer's markets and a few other places. It is not cheap but delicious and something that I can eat and enjoy! The wheat is locally sourced, organic, non hybrid, non gmo, heirloom grain. They soak their wheat before grinding. It is honest to goodness sourdough. They have it in white, wheat, seeded, cheddar jalapeno, and cinnamon. I buy it and freeze it since I only have a couple of pieces per week.

Heck yeah! Farmers market every Saturday. I hadn't even thought to ask them if they sell elsewhere. Time to head to Good Earth! They make tasty sandwiches at the farmers market too. I'm so glad you suggested in case I hadn't heard of it yet! :ymhug:
I usually try to make my own, I got started with Caleb Warnock's book a couple years ago. But it's not as good as Abigail's. Maybe I should soak my wheat first...

[Arenera]

Why I was led to this way of eating

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[Arenera]

What about cheese? It has to be healthy...

Dairy is not mentioned in the Word of Wisdom. Neither is cocaine.

A real-life story, from the Cheese Trap:

When Katherine finished her tour of duty in Iraq, she was slim and reasonably healthy. Let’s face it: It is not easy to gain weight when you’re working hard in 120 ° F heat. As an Air Force aerospace engineer, Katherine designed missiles and military bases and had been among the first to go into Iraq in 2003.

Coming home meant returning to the foods of her Louisiana childhood: gumbo, shrimp, and cheesy casseroles. Cheese had a special place in her life. She fell into the odd habit of having a double cheeseburger for breakfast and snacked on Cheetos later in the day. And she especially loved macaroni and cheese, made with extra butter. For Christmas, a friend gave her an entire case of Kraft macaroni and cheese dinners—forty-eight boxes—and she ate a box a day for forty-eight days. At Mexican restaurants, she dug into hot melted queso flavored with bits of meat and peppers. Nachos and quesadillas, too. In truth, her diet was not so different from those of other people she knew, and her portions were not out of bounds.

But like many of her friends, she found herself gaining weight over time. She also started to experience pain in her abdomen. It waxed and waned with her menstrual cycle, and it gradually worsened.

Eventually, her gynecologist scheduled her for a laparoscopy, a technique for looking into the abdomen through a small incision. And that made the diagnosis. Katherine had endometriosis—collections of cells from the uterus that ended up planting in various places in her abdomen, attaching to her ovaries and even her intestinal tract. As women with endometriosis will tell you, the pain can sometimes be excruciating. It can be hard to just get out of bed, let alone go to work or go out with friends. It can also lead to infertility. Katherine was miserable, and things were not getting better. Her doctor concluded that the only solution was a hysterectomy.

Okay. She had wanted to have children, but if a hysterectomy was the only treatment for her illness, she resolved herself to it. She proceeded with plans for the operation. But then a friend suggested something completely different. After all, foods are known to affect hormones in various ways. Why not try a diet change? Halfheartedly, but with no other option, she sought out the advice of a nutrition counselor, who encouraged her to set aside dairy products, meat, and eggs, and try a vegan diet. He also suggested a number of traditional Asian foods—miso soup, brown rice, broccoli, and adzuki beans.

During the diet experiment, she missed her favorite foods, especially cheese and everything she had made with it. But very soon she felt remarkably better. Not only did pounds start melting away; her symptoms faded, too.

Something was definitely happening. After six weeks, she went back to her doctor for a repeat laparoscopy. Her doctor was stunned. Her disease had regressed dramatically, so much so that she did not need a hysterectomy after all. When the doctor told Katherine the news, she broke into tears. She had hoped that there was some explanation for her improvement other than the diet changes she had made—some explanation that could mean she would not have to say a permanent good-bye to her favorite, albeit unhealthful, foods. But she now realized that cheese and junk food were the cause of her problem. These foods meant pain and infertility. “I was either going to have cheese or have kids—that was the choice. I realized that I did this to myself, and now I had to decide what I was going to do about it.” In the waiting room, the doctor shared the good news with her husband, too. The endometriosis was all but gone.

And her husband said, yes, he had been amazed to see how quickly the diet change had worked. No way, the doctor said. It could not have been her new diet; that’s just not possible. Foods don’t cause endometriosis, and a diet change could never have led to this great an improvement.

Really? Then, what could have made the difference, her husband asked. There was only one explanation, the doctor said: It must have been a miracle. “Miracles happen all the time,” he explained. Miracle or not, Katherine stuck with her new way of eating. Her weight continued to improve—down 55 pounds in six months. Her cholesterol dropped 80 points. Painful breast cysts went away. And as her symptoms melted away, she felt better emotionally, too. No more mood roller coasters.

Once in a while, she deviated from her resolve, adding a slice of cheese to a veggie burger or digging into other cheesy foods. And these dietary indiscretions caused her pain and breast tenderness to quickly return and made her cycle noticeably heavier. She discovered that acne, which had bothered her for years but went away on her healthy diet, promptly returned if she flirted with cheese. “It was as if my body was trying to reject the dairy and get it out of my body.”

She resolved to stick to her new way of eating, and soon she came to love the new foods and tastes she was discovering. About that surgery? She never had it. She did not need it. Katherine and her husband now have two children, aged three and five. Yes, she serves them macaroni and other childhood favorites, but these foods are prepared differently. There’s not a speck of cheese on anything. She educates her children on the dangers of cheese and fills their lunchboxes with healthier alternatives. She gets the taste of cheese from nutritional yeast and other ingredients, and has found many other ways to combine the best of health with the best of taste.