Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

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brianj
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by brianj »

Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2017, 9:12 am In my view he was the last scholar to hold the apostolic office.
I can't think of a member of the current quorum who could be described in the same way.
I have described listening to Dallin Oaks as a bittersweet experience. Sweet because I love his style, bitter because I wish I had professors like him at my university. I wouldn't mind a pop quiz after one of his talks!

He doesn't have a style anywhere near that of the two talks I have heard from McConkie, but he is most definitely a scholar.

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sandman45
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by sandman45 »

Yea the last apostle to throw around his opinions and ideas as absolute fact. Joseph and Brighams teachings were revelation and true and not speculation with the purpose of furthering ones ego.

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brlenox
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by brlenox »

inho wrote: July 25th, 2017, 3:18 am The latest leak by MormonLeaks is actually really interesting. They published 37 documents written by Bruce R. McConkie. These include undelivered talks and drafts of talks. There are several gems among these. Since these are leaked documents, and they are transcribed pdfs, it is impossible to be 100% sure about their provenance, but they seem legit to me.

I haven't read through all of them yet. So far, my favourite is a document titled THE RECEIPT OF THE REVELATION OFFERING THE PRIESTHOOD TO MEN OF ALL RACES AND COLORS, where McConkie gives very detailed account about the events surrounding the lifting of the priesthood/temple ban.
This is fascinating material. I have copies of transcripts of the 1967 presentations, 32 in total. I think I counted 36 in his list, however, some are mislabeled and some are entirely new and many that were published are not the ones in the copies that I have. So I have a week or so of comparing and printing to get all of them put together.

Thanks for the link - it will be fun putting it all together.

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brlenox
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by brlenox »

Robin Hood wrote: September 27th, 2017, 9:12 am In my view he was the last scholar to hold the apostolic office.
I can't think of a member of the current quorum who could be described in the same way.
President Eyering is not a wit behind Elder McConkie in my opinion. In recent presentations he has said somethings that no one has ever taught to my knowledge and he says them in such a way that if you have not had the witness that taught yourself you would not notice that what he said was so profound. It has happened several times now and I can tell that there is little understood by anyone that is not understood by President Eyering but very carefully delivered.

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brlenox
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Re: Nuclear arms race

Post by brlenox »

Silver wrote: July 25th, 2017, 9:54 am
inho wrote: July 25th, 2017, 5:12 am from Unpublished article McConkie wrote for the Easter 1981 First Presidency Message
It is clear to all that nations the world over are arming themselves with the most awesome and destructive weapons ever devised by men. We deplore the use of nuclear weaponry with its terrible potential for the destruction of life, property, and even of civilization itself. We recognize that such weaponry exists in a number of nations and that others are devoting their wealth and means to acquire it. All history attests that armed nations become warring nations, and it was the Prince of Peace who said, “All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.” (Matt. 26:52.)

Our constant prayer is that the United States of America will spare no effort in seeking to reach an understanding with other nations that would stop a catastrophic nuclear arms race. We hope and pray that the American nation will be a beacon of righteousness to all the world and will qualify to receive the Book of Mormon promise: “Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be free from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but serve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ.” (Ether 2:12.)
These are great. How can we know for certain that they are authentic?
I own around 50 % or slightly less of the material. I knew the teachers aid to Joseph Fielding McConkie and they were cataloging boxes and boxes of material after his fathers death. So of that material I am confident.

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brlenox
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Re: Some context for the leaked documents

Post by brlenox »

Silver wrote: July 26th, 2017, 2:36 am
inho wrote: July 26th, 2017, 1:54 am Here is a link to a blog post written by Dennis B. Horne, who has written biography of Bruce R. McConkie. He laments that these private documents were leaked through anti-Mormons. Nevertheless, he gives some background to the documents. He points out that some of them have actually been published before or have been rewritten in some published talks. He seemed to be aware of the existence of the memo on the Priesthood Revelation.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie’s Leaked Papers: a Sorry and Sad but Salvageable Situation
Dennis Horne wouldn't happen to be related to David Horne of George Albert Smith "revelation" fame would he?
His father, I believe was Walter Horne who was well ingrained into church leadership society. They are an old family in the church and well respected.

EmmaLee
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by EmmaLee »

"What people don’t generally visualize about the conditions concurrent, I have this pointed out now in the references in the text, is that there are going to be wars and desolations going on at the time of His coming. Here is one of the sweetest little heresies you will ever find. People in the Church are everlastingly saying, oh, if people would only repent and live better, we’d bring to pass the millennium. If we would just improve ourselves we’d get to the point where the millennium would be ushered in. This is pure nonsense. There isn’t any scripture that intimates this in any way.

When all of these scriptures talk about conditions concurrent, they talk about the desolations, the wars, the carnage, the bloodshed, the wickedness and the fact that the earth is going to get more wicked until the Lord has to come and destroy it by fire. When Jesus comes, He is going to come in the midst of the greatest war that has ever been on earth. The exact hour is when the revelation is fulfilled that says, “I will gather all nations together against Jerusalem.” The whole world will he at war. Jerusalem will be the focal point where the battles make place. This is Armageddon. This is the name of the plain Esdraelon, or whatever it is, outside Jerusalem where the war and conflict will be centered at the hour of the Second Coming.

Well, the Second Coming is fixed, there is a definite time; it won’t be put off or it won’t be hastened. When it does come there will be this war, bloodshed and difficulty which surpasses anything that has ever been. I rather surmise that there will be a little period of time involved, that this won’t just happen overnight. When you see the sort of thing that we just saw over in Palestine, you begin to wonder and think how are things working around. There are one set of nations in the world seemingly on one side and another set on the other side, meaning Russia on one hand and us on the other. It seems like this is a little of the initial ferment and preparatory historical events that lead up to the day when the great cataclysm will break forth."

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/0 ... e-1967.pdf

EmmaLee
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Re: Some context for the leaked documents

Post by EmmaLee »

brlenox wrote: September 28th, 2017, 12:33 am
Silver wrote: July 26th, 2017, 2:36 am
inho wrote: July 26th, 2017, 1:54 am Here is a link to a blog post written by Dennis B. Horne, who has written biography of Bruce R. McConkie. He laments that these private documents were leaked through anti-Mormons. Nevertheless, he gives some background to the documents. He points out that some of them have actually been published before or have been rewritten in some published talks. He seemed to be aware of the existence of the memo on the Priesthood Revelation.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie’s Leaked Papers: a Sorry and Sad but Salvageable Situation
Dennis Horne wouldn't happen to be related to David Horne of George Albert Smith "revelation" fame would he?
His father, I believe was Walter Horne who was well ingrained into church leadership society. They are an old family in the church and well respected.
If this is the Walter Horne you are referring to, he is my uncle. He was a very sweet man, the most Christ-like I've ever known. https://history.lds.org/missionary/indi ... 6?lang=eng

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brlenox
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Re: Some context for the leaked documents

Post by brlenox »

EmmaLee wrote: October 5th, 2017, 5:06 pm
brlenox wrote: September 28th, 2017, 12:33 am
Silver wrote: July 26th, 2017, 2:36 am
inho wrote: July 26th, 2017, 1:54 am Here is a link to a blog post written by Dennis B. Horne, who has written biography of Bruce R. McConkie. He laments that these private documents were leaked through anti-Mormons. Nevertheless, he gives some background to the documents. He points out that some of them have actually been published before or have been rewritten in some published talks. He seemed to be aware of the existence of the memo on the Priesthood Revelation.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie’s Leaked Papers: a Sorry and Sad but Salvageable Situation
Dennis Horne wouldn't happen to be related to David Horne of George Albert Smith "revelation" fame would he?
His father, I believe was Walter Horne who was well ingrained into church leadership society. They are an old family in the church and well respected.
If this is the Walter Horne you are referring to, he is my uncle. He was a very sweet man, the most Christ-like I've ever known. https://history.lds.org/missionary/indi ... 6?lang=eng
Does he have a son also named Walter Horne as Dennis is not old enough to have had a father who died in 1930.

EmmaLee
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Re: Some context for the leaked documents

Post by EmmaLee »

brlenox wrote: October 5th, 2017, 5:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: October 5th, 2017, 5:06 pm
brlenox wrote: September 28th, 2017, 12:33 am
Silver wrote: July 26th, 2017, 2:36 am

Dennis Horne wouldn't happen to be related to David Horne of George Albert Smith "revelation" fame would he?
His father, I believe was Walter Horne who was well ingrained into church leadership society. They are an old family in the church and well respected.
If this is the Walter Horne you are referring to, he is my uncle. He was a very sweet man, the most Christ-like I've ever known. https://history.lds.org/missionary/indi ... 6?lang=eng
Does he have a son also named Walter Horne as Dennis is not old enough to have had a father who died in 1930.
Nope, my uncle, Walter M. Horne (the poet), did not have a son named Walter.

e-eye2.0
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by e-eye2.0 »

EmmaLee wrote: October 5th, 2017, 5:00 pm "What people don’t generally visualize about the conditions concurrent, I have this pointed out now in the references in the text, is that there are going to be wars and desolations going on at the time of His coming. Here is one of the sweetest little heresies you will ever find. People in the Church are everlastingly saying, oh, if people would only repent and live better, we’d bring to pass the millennium. If we would just improve ourselves we’d get to the point where the millennium would be ushered in. This is pure nonsense. There isn’t any scripture that intimates this in any way.

When all of these scriptures talk about conditions concurrent, they talk about the desolations, the wars, the carnage, the bloodshed, the wickedness and the fact that the earth is going to get more wicked until the Lord has to come and destroy it by fire. When Jesus comes, He is going to come in the midst of the greatest war that has ever been on earth. The exact hour is when the revelation is fulfilled that says, “I will gather all nations together against Jerusalem.” The whole world will he at war. Jerusalem will be the focal point where the battles make place. This is Armageddon. This is the name of the plain Esdraelon, or whatever it is, outside Jerusalem where the war and conflict will be centered at the hour of the Second Coming.

Well, the Second Coming is fixed, there is a definite time; it won’t be put off or it won’t be hastened. When it does come there will be this war, bloodshed and difficulty which surpasses anything that has ever been. I rather surmise that there will be a little period of time involved, that this won’t just happen overnight. When you see the sort of thing that we just saw over in Palestine, you begin to wonder and think how are things working around. There are one set of nations in the world seemingly on one side and another set on the other side, meaning Russia on one hand and us on the other. It seems like this is a little of the initial ferment and preparatory historical events that lead up to the day when the great cataclysm will break forth."

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/0 ... e-1967.pdf
I agree on the premise of this but also understand that as the wicked become more wicked the righteous will become more righteous. So by that logic more righteousness wouldn't usher in the 2nd coming but it would accompany it. I am not exactly sure what it will look like but President Eyring said we and the generations after us need to be stronger for what is coming.

EmmaLee
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by EmmaLee »

Agreed. ^^

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Durzan
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by Durzan »

The second coming is fixed not on a specific time, but rather on a specific set of enevitable conditions. The actual time the second coming occurs could vary over a certain interval of time depending on exactly how those conditions play out.

One of those conditions (put in general terms) is that the world must satisfy any one of the following:
1. Absolute righteousness of mankind will bring about the Second Coming in a peaceful manner. (Very Improbable, but still possible... given the prophecies of God foretell the opposite if anything, but this could be seen as a warning instead of an absolute conclusion.)

2. Absolute Wickedness of mankind will bring about a destructive second coming. (significantly more likely than the first option, but modern revelation indicates that there will be righteous men and women on earth that are able to seek refuge in Zion.)

3. A balance of wicked and righteousness. Note that this doesn't mean in numbers, as one righteous individual balances over 100 wicked individuals. Therefore overwhelming majority of the world is absolutely wicked, but balanced by a proportionate amount of exceedingly righteous individuals encountered in Zion. (This seems the most likely condition to be fufilled.)

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inho
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Re: Previously unpublished talks by Bruce R. McConkie

Post by inho »

inho wrote: September 26th, 2017, 6:41 am Mormon Leaks has published more McConkie documents:
https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/index.php?t ... kie_Papers
Dennis B. Horne gave some background information for these documents too:
A “McConkie Papers” Leak Update: More Evil that can be Turned to Good

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