The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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Jesef
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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Thanks, LDSA, that makes A TON of sense.

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Alaris
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Re: Just take a chill pill

Post by Alaris »

I agree with a lot of what you have to say LDSA, and I appreciate your posts and contribution to discussion especially about the end times servant. HOWever ... this post seems like your stepping a bit on the sign of 9/23 with a "I knew it was nothing" attitude and a "the sign will really look like such and such." Now I'm not as presumptive as most who weirdly claim this or that won't happen. Perhaps there will be another sign in the heavens that appears more literal - that is certainly possible. The word "shadow" you keep using certainly aligns with the eternal principle of spiritual creation first then temporal creation.

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm
Jesef wrote: September 26th, 2017, 9:10 am So, Alaris, Dafty, LDSA, any thoughts on the topic post-9/23? Do you think the DS and/or MS are still in hiding or do you think he/they will arise and shine forth soon? Do you think some kind of 7-year clock has started ticking and we'll gradually see tribulations and the disintegration of the U.S.A. (Babylon) over the next few years? What are your expectations at this point?
We are still in the times of types and shadows and this 9/23 thing was just a shadow sign, nothing more. The Josephite is still very much in his box. I never received any manifestation of the Holy Ghost concerning the so-called Revelation 12 Sign and if there was any significance to it, at all, it was merely an indication that the Josephite is soon to be released from his box. But how soon? The Feast of Trumpets announces the new year, so perhaps it means that the Josephite will be released sometime in the next year. That's about all the significance I can extract from this thing without a direct manifestation of the Holy Ghost. The personal signs/witnesses I asked for concerning the Josephite's impending release still haven't occurred, not even a single one, so the 9/23 thing didn't and still doesn't hold any significance to me.
Exhibit A. You start the paragraph saying it was a shadow sign and end with saying it didn't and still didn't hold any significance for you. Well which is it? Because it seems like you are tossing the sign under the bus to build credibility after just stating it was a shadow sign.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm The difference between a shadow sign and a literal sign is stark. First, shadow signs can occur out of chronological order and if you take the book of Revelation as a chronology, then the 9/23 thing happened out of chronological order because the stuff in chapters 11 and 10 and 9, etc., still haven't happened.
Can you demonstrate this in the scriptures? There were signs of Jesus birth and death at both promised lands. Though they were symbols or types (or even shadows) they were not preceded by shadows or followed up by literal signs. Or were they? I'm happy to be wrong here. :)
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm Also, if a literal sign actually occurred on that date, we'd see Venus and Saturn and Mars and the Moon all align up and quite close to Earth, and then there would be great displays of plasma so that it would actually appear--in the nighttime and perhaps also in the daytime, to all people on the earth who looked up without any telescope--to be a young, pregnant woman with flowing clothes glowing brightly like the Sun, with a crown on her head and 12 points of light around that crown, and the Moon at her feet. It would be an image that would take up much of the sky and everyone around the world would see it, without needing Stellarium or any other program or telescope. And we'd hear sounds like a woman crying in childbirth, coming from the skies. And so on. This is how the literal sign will be. In fact, all the literal heavenly signs will be like this.
I am peripherally aware of the plasma universe and have watched an LDS youtube or two on how plasma / energy may have looked different in the past. I'm totally not against this possibility, but can you demonstrate this in the scriptures? If you are getting this all from your gift of knowledge (I'm not saying you don't have this gift as you and I see eye to eye on many things) - please specify.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm Compare that to this shadow sign in which you have points of light in the heavens and then you must imagine that these points of light make up the image (constellation) of a woman, and you must imagine that the 12 points of light are points in an imagined crown, etc. When the real, literal signs start appearing in the heavens, and on earth, people who were alive at this time who thought this and other shadow signs were "the real deal" will all be saying, "Uh, I guess we jumped the gun a bit..."
As much as I'm tempted to say, "Yeah right" here, I do concede that in all my zeal for 9/23 many speculations were a reflection of there being more pomp and flare to the sign. That said, my prior post to this one details just how special and unique and symbolic the sign itself actually was. To say "we jumped the gun" is simply not accurate. Those who look in belief can see the sign itself had far too many "coincidences" to be thrown under the bus as it seems you are doing.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm As for 7 years of prosperity/tribulation, the break-up of the nation, etc., all that stuff is of no consequence. It is prophetic nonsense. Whoever prophesies, me included, whose prophesies are real, will prophesy of the times of Elias, not the times of Elias's shadow. There was a prophet and seer and revelator during the time of Elias's shadow, and that guy (Joseph Smith) is now dead. Everyone else who "prophesies" of end times things happening during this time of types and shadows is just guessing on all these things, or eating lots of meat at night and having weird and wonderful dreams, or letting warm fuzzies get the best of them.

(And as far as the disintegration of the USA, I prophesied awhile ago, on my blog, that that won't and can't happen until the plates of Ether appear and are translated and sent forth, so everyone can take a chill pill. This nation will remain until that happens. And anyone saying contrary to this word ain't no prophet.)

I am confused how people - anyone really - can say "prophetic nonsense" unless you have seen all things from the beginning to the end. Even if you have been shown specifics, then sometimes our interpretations or understandings are limited by we whose thoughts are beneath the Lord's thoughts. But to say all this or that is prophetic nonsense - that is an overly generalized statement and certainly is not inviting to others who are studying the topic as am I. And what if that "prophetic nonsense" aligns with what you've blogged?

It seems you may be directing some or all of this to me - please correct me if I am wrong - as I did mention the USA, though I certainly didn't mention any timeline which is why perhaps you may not be directing this at me. So whether you are addressing me or people in general, it's rather bold to say "it is prophetic nonsense" from someone who was mistaken about their own prophecy about Joseph Smith. I don't say that to discredit you, as perhaps you do have the gift of knowledge. However, perhaps some humility is in order as that circumstance certainly illustrates you are not a called prophet but may fall under those whom the Lord promised would dream dreams and see visions in the latter days. Gifts are more readily accepted if the accompanying card is free of insults (your recent subject line - Exhibit B.)
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm Now the prophecies that speak of the end times speak of the end times, not the times of types and shadows. The end times doesn't begin without the Josephite. He is the first sign to appear:
And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (Matthew 17:10-11)
You may be right in your interpretation, and it certainly feels right to me that the end times servant would stand up first before the ball starts rolling forward to the gathering of Israel. However, this scripture says he must first appear means "he must first appear and restore all things before such and such" not that he "appears first before ..." what was your point? Before the end times begin. I do happen to agree that he will appear at the beginning but his appearance is the end times not before them.. :) Also, here is some more context of the scripture you quoted:
Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
This is why I personally hesitate to use the word "Elias." Elias is anything but a clearcut issue for Latter-day Saints. Are we talking about Elijah or Elias as the D&C says they're two people but in the NT Elias is Elijah in Greek. Are we talking about John the Baptist or the end times Elias, and if we are talking about the end times Elias who restores "all things" are we talking about the Elias who did restore the keys to the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham or the other one? John the Beloved seems to be referred to as Elias in D&C 77:9 - wait I thought John the Baptist was Elias. I do agree with you that "it" (below) is not referring to John but perhaps the angel who gives John the book (at least I think that's your interpretation as well) Anyway, those were rhetorical questions to illustrate that Elias can be an immediate system shut-down for many LDS as soon as they see the word. :)
D&C 77:9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.
Image
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm And after the Josephite is born and enters his box, he must then get out of his box and stand up, making his announcement:
And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Isaiah 11:10)
The Josephite has already come, for he's somewhere out there among the populace, alive and kicking already, but he has not yet stood up, letting the people know he's on the scene. When he stands up and makes his announcement, at that point all the end time prophecy shadows and types will reset, and the end time prophecies will start to be fulfilled literally, in perfect chronological order, starting with the first one all the way to the last. Until then, we will remain in this time of types and shadows and everything that occurs in the world, no matter what it is, should be taken solely as a shadow or type. None of these shadows indicate we have entered the end times.
Agreed on all but the last point. 9/23 is exactly the sign to indicate we've entered the end times....that the time of the gentiles has come to an end and the Lord has set in motion the gathering of Israel. Now perhaps it is a spiritual sign, but even then the spiritual preparations are underway at the least.

I hope you and I can continue to have fruitful discussions in the future where we can disagree in peace. Whether you have gifts or not you are still mortal and fallible as am I, and I certainly have gifts of the spirit of my own. Our quest for truth should trump our desire to "be right." I have personally validated so much of what you have said, and I hope we can have a friendly discussion on the points where we disagree. If your basis is "personal revelation" I personally won't knock you for that even if I disagree with you on finer points.

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Alaris
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Re: I ain't defending words I never uttered

Post by Alaris »

alaris wrote: September 26th, 2017, 5:51 pm I hope you and I can continue to have fruitful discussions in the future where we can disagree in peace. Whether you have gifts or not you are still mortal and fallible as am I, and I certainly have gifts of the spirit of my own. Our quest for truth should trump our desire to "be right." I have personally validated so much of what you have said, and I hope we can have a friendly discussion on the points where we disagree. If your basis is "personal revelation" I personally won't knock you for that even if I disagree with you on finer points.
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LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 7:10 pm Oh, boy, there's an awful lot of stuff in your post, alaris. Maybe when I have more time I will address it all, but for now, since this is the second time you have brought this one thing up, I will address it:
alaris wrote: September 26th, 2017, 5:51 pm So whether you are addressing me or people in general, it's rather bold to say "it is prophetic nonsense" from someone who was mistaken about their own prophecy about Joseph Smith.
Now, please, alaris, either put up or shut up. Please show me, from my blog, where I prophesied that Joseph Smith was going to appear and issue the Proclamation at or before a specific date. I never prophesied any such thing. I always said he would appear and issue the Proclamation to a president-elect of the United States, in other words, he would issue it after some presidential election and before its following presidential inauguration, but I never specified which inauguration it would be. I never prophesied any date.

Now, dafty, you were the one who claimed on this forum that I made such a prophecy, and your claim apparently has at least alaris thinking I've made a false prophecy, so, if you still hold to that belief, then please, go to my blog and show me and everyone else here where I prophesied such a thing. And if you can't find any such prophecy, then come back and admit that you were mistaken and that I never did prophesy a date for its fulfillment, to disabuse the minds of the people here.

Also, I just discovered that someone calling himself DRC53 on this forum has claimed I prophesied that there would be an earthquake that would kill all the general authorities by 2012. This is a lie. I never prophesied any such thing. So, again, DRC53, put up or shut up. Show me and everyone else here where I made this prophecy (which I never did.)
DRC53 wrote: September 20th, 2017, 9:49 am This is on par when LDS Anarchist foretold that there would be an earthquake during general conference that would kill all of the general authorities and that it would happen by 2012. That obviously didn't happen. We need to be careful what we become excited about.
Now, I don't care if anyone holds up one of my prophecies. Hold them all up. It makes no difference to me. They will all come to pass. But if you put words in my mouth that I never said, and then say, "False prophecy! False prophet!" then that's just a bald-faced lie. You want to call me on a prophecy I uttered, then QUOTE ME ON IT. Don't paraphrase, don't subtract words from it and don't add words I never wrote or said.
I'll take that as a "No" then.

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Jesef
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Jesef »

3 Nephi 21 seems a bit hard to pin down in terms of some of what has been fulfilled vs what is yet to be. So, LDSA, is it clear to you that what the Lord was referring to there was from the Sealed Portion of the plates and not the stuff actually right there in 3 Nephi? If it's just the stuff we already have in 3 Nephi, then it has been made known (published) to the Gentiles, since Book of Mormon publication started in 1830, etc. Have you received anything concrete on that?

Basically, how does the coming forth of the sealed portion and the repentance of the Gentiles square with the rejection of the fulness by the Gentiles and the bringing (taking away) of the fulness from among them? So all of these BoM verses with D&C 45 basically...

So this timeline:
3 Nephi 16
4 And I command you that ye shall write these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the Gentiles, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their unbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a knowledge of me, their Redeemer.
5 And then will I gather them in from the four quarters of the earth; and then will I fulfil the covenant which the Father hath made unto all the people of the house of Israel.
6 And blessed are the Gentiles, because of their belief in me, in and of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses unto them of me and of the Father.
7 Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.
8 But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;
9 And because of the mercies of the Father unto the Gentiles, and also the judgments of the Father upon my people who are of the house of Israel, verily, verily, I say unto you, that after all this, and I have caused my people who are of the house of Israel to be smitten, and to be afflicted, and to be slain, and to be cast out from among them, and to become hated by them, and to become a hiss and a byword among them—
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.
14 And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
15 But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, thus hath the Father commanded me—that I should give unto this people this land for their inheritance.
17 And then the words of the prophet Isaiah shall be fulfilled, which say:
18 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing, for they shall see eye to eye when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
19 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
20 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of God.
With this timeline:
3 Nephi 21
1 And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place—that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion;
2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;
3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;
5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;
6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;
7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.
8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.
14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;
15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;
16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;
17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;
18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.
19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.
20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;
21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.
26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.
27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.
28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.
29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.
With these preconditions:
2 Nephi 27
7 And behold the book shall be sealed; and in the book shall be a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof.
8 Wherefore, because of the things which are sealed up, the things which are sealed shall not be delivered in the day of the wickedness and abominations of the people. Wherefore the book shall be kept from them.
9 But the book shall be delivered unto a man, and he shall deliver the words of the book, which are the words of those who have slumbered in the dust, and he shall deliver these words unto another;
10 But the words which are sealed he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they reveal all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.
11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be revealed unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.
12 Wherefore, at that day when the book shall be delivered unto the man of whom I have spoken, the book shall be hid from the eyes of the world, that the eyes of none shall behold it save it be that three witnesses shall behold it, by the power of God, besides him to whom the book shall be delivered; and they shall testify to the truth of the book and the things therein.
Ether 4
4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

Z2100
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Z2100 »

Jesef wrote: September 28th, 2017, 10:51 am Basically, how does the coming forth of the sealed portion and the repentance of the Gentiles square with the rejection of the fulness by the Gentiles and the bringing (taking away) of the fulness from among them? So all of these BoM verses with D&C 45 basically...
The gentiles aren't repenting any-time soon, so I expect the sealed portion to come forth when NJ is being built

Z2100
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Re: Just take a chill pill

Post by Z2100 »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 26th, 2017, 4:16 pm
Jesef wrote: September 26th, 2017, 9:10 am
The Josephite has already come, for he's somewhere out there among the populace, alive and kicking already, but he has not yet stood up, letting the people know he's on the scene. When he stands up and makes his announcement, at that point all the end time prophecy shadows and types will reset, and the end time prophecies will start to be fulfilled literally, in perfect chronological order, starting with the first one all the way to the last. Until then, we will remain in this time of types and shadows and everything that occurs in the world, no matter what it is, should be taken solely as a shadow or type. None of these shadows indicate we have entered the end times.
How close do you think we are to start seeing literal signs. It could be in this century.

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Love
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Love »

alaris wrote: June 26th, 2017, 9:26 pm Friends,

I have created a blog. I did not want to, but as difficult as it is to format a blog, it's easier than doing it here and easier on the eyes than reading a lengthy forum post. So without further ado:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... aimer.html

So this blog is about the sign from Revelation 12 of the crowned woman clothed with the sun that seems to occur on 9/23/2017 and how it may be related to the anointing of the Davidic Servant. Enjoy! :)

I hoped these slides would be helpful with your rainbow theory.


These slides came from
Presbyterian Church 2016
The Covenant of Grace
Oakwood Presbyterian Church
2016
Last edited by Love on September 29th, 2017, 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Alaris
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Alaris »

Love wrote: September 29th, 2017, 11:37 am
alaris wrote: June 26th, 2017, 9:26 pm Friends,

I have created a blog. I did not want to, but as difficult as it is to format a blog, it's easier than doing it here and easier on the eyes than reading a lengthy forum post. So without further ado:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... aimer.html

So this blog is about the sign from Revelation 12 of the crowned woman clothed with the sun that seems to occur on 9/23/2017 and how it may be related to the anointing of the Davidic Servant. Enjoy! :)

I hoped these slides would be helpful with your rainbow theory.
Looks great Love! Did you make these? I won't have time to delve in until later today. Thank you! :)

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Jesef
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Jesef »

LDSA, thanks for sharing all that - how much of that interpretation of events is just your understanding versus what has been "manifested"/revealed clearly, without interpretation?

Denver Snuffer ain't the guy you're describing, for sure.

Do you believe the Josephite is already among the brethren or still hiding somewhere? From what you've described, it will be pretty dang obvious when he arises - because real fruit, real miracles, real power will be manifest and quickly.

And just for clarity: the Josephite is the same as the "one mighty and strong" right? Is that also Messiah ben Joseph? And he is different than the Davidic Servant or Jewish Moshiach, right (also known as "Messiah ben David" I think)?

It's very interesting. I've never heard anything like what you've described.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Jesef »

Thanks again. That's all very helpful information.

Except that last paragraph:
(Btw, that's the Josephite that John is referring to above.) So, here is where it can get confusing. If he's a reigning king, what and where is his kingdom? And will he cease reigning as king once Christ gets back? Or will he continue to reign forever? Now, I know some of the answers to these questions, for the Holy Ghost has told me a great many things about this guy, but I'm gonna keep all that stuff to myself.
That's no fun at all! Unless you're specifically being constrained, share it bro!

So you've mentioned multiple end-times servants, right? Or am I confusing some of what Alaris, Dafty, and others may have said? Who are the 2 prophets who die in Jerusalem? Who rebuilds the Jerusalem Temple (or helps lead that)? Josephite helps or lead building the New Jerusalem (city of ZION) over here, right?

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Re: Denver Snuffer ain't the guy

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 3:19 pm
Jesef wrote: September 29th, 2017, 2:30 pm LDSA, thanks for sharing all that - how much of that interpretation of events is just your understanding versus what has been "manifested"/revealed clearly, without interpretation?
Everything about the Josephite that I currently know comes from the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost has been pouring out knowledge to me about this guy for about 7 years now. And in comparison to all other prophetic things that came before, this one thing (the Josephite) is the prophetic mountain. It is the biggest thing of all. So these are all manifested understandings.
Jesef wrote: September 29th, 2017, 2:30 pm Denver Snuffer ain't the guy you're describing, for sure.
Lol. Not by a long shot!
Jesef wrote: September 29th, 2017, 2:30 pm Do you believe the Josephite is already among the brethren or still hiding somewhere? From what you've described, it will be pretty dang obvious when he arises - because real fruit, real miracles, real power will be manifest and quickly.
The Josephite is not part of the LDS leadership, but he certainly is a member of the LDS church. (I can't wait to see the faces of the Christians who are expecting a "third Elijah" when he appears! They think he will be Christian, lol.) So, he's still hidden somewhere. And yes, it will be obvious as to who he is, but I suppose there will be those who will think it's a false prophet performing deceiving miracles.
Jesef wrote: September 29th, 2017, 2:30 pm And just for clarity: the Josephite is the same as the "one mighty and strong" right? Is that also Messiah ben Joseph? And he is different than the Davidic Servant or Jewish Moshiach, right (also known as "Messiah ben David" I think)?

It's very interesting. I've never heard anything like what you've described.
Yes, he is the one spoken of in D&C 65:1 and in D&C 85:7 and in Isaiah 28:2 and in 2 Nephi 3:24, etc.

The Messiah ben Joseph tradition is false. There is no Messiah ben Joseph, however the tradition has some true parts to it. The Messiah ben Joseph thing is a conflation between some true things that speak of the Elias who restores all things and some false traditions.

The Elias who restores all things will be of four lineages: Manasseh, Ephraim, Judah and also Gentile. In other words, he'll be a Nephite who was raised as a Gentile in the Gentile nation of America (USA.) So, you can call him "the Davidic servant" if you want, since he is also descended from Jesse the father of David, through Mulek the son of Zedekiah, king of Judah. But he is not a "Messiah ben David" for there is only one Messiah, and that is Christ.

The name David means "beloved." So, when the scriptures say, "My servant David" or"David my servant,' the name David may mean an actual name (David) or it may mean a title, meaning "Beloved." Now, who of all the sons of God is called Beloved? Who is the Beloved Son of God?

So, we get a theology of two titles: one using the name of Elijah/Elias (meaning Jehovah is God) and one using the name of David (meaning Beloved). Many who believe in a "Davidic servant" use the scriptures that speak of an end times David as applying to a non-divine being who is an end times prophet who prepares the way of the Lord, whereas those same scriptures are applied by the Brethren of the church to mean the divine Being who is Christ. Who is correct? In this case, it is the Brethren.

The end times prophet is the Josephite, and he is the one who prepares the way. However, it is perfectly okay to refer to him as a Davidic servant, given his lineage. But those passages that speak of "My servant David" reigning forever are not referring to a mortal man who dies and then inherits an eternal kingdom and thus "reigns forever," but to someone who literally reigns forever. And who is coming to reign forever? Christ, of course.

However, the Josephite is also spoken of as being a king:
And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. (Revelation 9:11)
(Btw, that's the Josephite that John is referring to above.) So, here is where it can get confusing. If he's a reigning king, what and where is his kingdom? And will he cease reigning as king once Christ gets back? Or will he continue to reign forever? Now, I know some of the answers to these questions, for the Holy Ghost has told me a great many things about this guy, but I'm gonna keep all that stuff to myself.
I've posted elsewhere about David meaning beloved--probably in one of our chats.
Ezekiel 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever
So the word "servant" accompanies David in both verses--I'm not a hebrew scholar but I did run this past my buddy who is a hebrew linguist and he did confirm this could indeed mean "my beloved servant."

To address your earlier statements on the time of the gentiles not being over ... 9/23 could absolutely be a flag or a marker that the time is over. As for the gospel being preached to all the world....so many LDS assume this means that LDS missionaries will be the ones achieving this sign. Though that's an understandable conclusion, it may be presumptive. Joseph Smith has taught that the gathering will be a combination effort of angels and men. I believe this scripture will be accomplished by the Davidic Servant and the 144,000---more than enough people to witness to all nations:
JST Matthew 24:31 And again, this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked;
The gospel is preached for a witness unto all nations ... easy to conclude that the purpose is to convert; however I believe the purpose here may be to only serve as a witness against them - notice the context, "and then shall the end come, or the destruction of the wicked." Sure this could be a last call, but I do not include this event as "the time of the gentiles" as it certainly seems more judgement to me than mercy.

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Re: The times of the Gentiles

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm Admittedly, that's an interesting interpretation. Let's take a look at all the scriptures that speak of the "times of the Gentiles." There aren't many. There are only three passages. One in JST Luke:
I appreciate that. If I'm wrong I hope to at least be interesting. I will selectively bold parts of the JST Luke as well to demonstrate that my interesting interpretation has a basis of being more than just that.
Now these things he spake unto them, concerning the destruction of Jerusalem. And then his disciples asked him, saying, Master, tell us concerning thy coming? And he answered them, and said, In the generation in which the times of the Gentiles shall be fulfilled,there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars;
first of all - BAM. There it is right there. 9/23 was absolutely a sign that included the sun, the moon, and the stars. You stopped bolding as soon as it got interesting!
and upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity, like the sea and the waves roaring. The earth also shall be troubled, and the waters of the great deep; men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth.
Um ... yeah ALL of that applies. North Korea. The sea and the waves roaring.The fear felt by those in the earthquakes and in the hurricanes certainly apply, and the inundation of angry comments of HOW DARE PEOPLE SEE 9/23 as a SIGN!!! All given out of fear.
For the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
To be fair, I don't think that has happened ... yet.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; when they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, this generation, the generation when the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled, shall not pass away till all be fulfilled. (JST Luke 21: 24-32)
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm Have there been signs in the Sun? No. Everything happening on the Sun has been happening always. The Sun has flares, sun spots, coronal mass ejections, coronal holes, etc., like it always has. There is nothing different of note about the Sun. What about the moon? Nope. Same ol' same ol'. The stars? Nope. The wobbly tilt of the earth has shifted wildly since the year 2000, altering the position of the stars, but that's about all. Have the powers of heaven been shaken? Nope.
Conceded on the last one. However every thing else has happened. The Sun had seven solar flares during a solar minimum across seven days baffling scientists--so that's anything but business as usual for the sun.

http://www.newsweek.com/solar-flares-su ... pot-664118

"Scientists bewildered by a sun gone wrong" - Direct quote from the article.

And the number seven is a holy number representing completeness or fulfillment. The time of the gentiles is fulfilled. This is heralding a new era--the time of the gathering. You don't see it that way, and that's fine. I would be happy / have been happy to debate and discuss in threads you have created on similar topics even where we disagree. I do ask that you and Jesef take your discussion into another thread if you'd like to get tangential.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm On to the next scripture, also found in Luke:
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)
Has Jerusalem been trodden down of the Gentiles? Nope. It's been occupied by Jews for decades now.
That's a narrow interpretation given when Luke recorded the prophecy and what has happened since then and now. All those things had already come to pass and are the contingency clause that all those things will happen until the times of the gentiles be fulfilled. The gentiles are arguably still trodding all over Jerusalem. The prophecies--especially Isaiah--speak about the Lord who will one day boot out anyone who is not Israel. That occurs during the time of the gathering. So in my book this one is absolutely checked off the list. I do appreciate you researching these scriptures, as I am more interesting in finding the truth than being right.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm On to the last scripture, found in the Doctrine and Covenants:
But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth. And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound. And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel; but they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men. And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (D&C 45:25-30)
Are people saying that "Christ delayeth His coming until the end of the earth"? Nope. Nobody is saying that.
Actually yes! TONS of people are saying that. Researching 9/23 revealed that most videos which were full of thousands of comments concluded that the rapture was to take place on 9/23. This faulty interpretation of end times events leads many to conclude the Lord delayeth His coming. These are the fig leaves! The love of men has waxed cold! There is enmity everywhere! Iniquity abounds! The time of the gentiles is fulfilled or nearly so my good brother!
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm So, no, the times of the Gentiles have not been fulfilled, as yet. None of the above scriptures is speaking of the time of Elias's shadow (Mormonism), but they are speaking of the time of Elias himself. The light breaking forth among men sitting in darkness is not the light shone by Joseph Smith, but the light that will be shone by Joseph-Nephi.
If the time of the gentiles is fulfilled, then we should know relatively soon. Relatively is the key word here as the Lord's time in scriptures is certainly not our time. Here's more from D&C 45, but this reads to me like it all starts to happen after the time of the gentiles is fulfilled. To understand this, it helps to understand what the time of the gentiles is. The time of the gentiles is the time where the gospel is preached to the gentiles. So, first here is a scripture that reinforces that the time of the gentiles is the time allotted to them to join Israel.
3 Nephi 21:6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;
If they harden their hearts and do not join, then ... here's a scripture that gives that exact comment as to what happens next ... this pertains to the end times servant himself:
3 Nephi 21:11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
So there is a hard cut off. I absolutely believe this sign was a heralding of that cut off. That does not necessarily mean that the hard cut off has happened yet itself temporally but may have been signaled spiritually as events may unfold here as they do in the creation - spiritually first and then temporally. Does that mean the Gentiles will be torn to pieces tomorrow? No, but I do believe that this sign was a marker for those who believe and have eyes to see and haven't hardened their own hearts - like you said, Moroni 3:5 it. I feel it now as I write this. Here is D&C 45:
D&C 45:
24 And this I have told you concerning Jerusalem; and when that day shall come, shall a remnant be scattered among all nations;
25 But they shall be gathered again; but they shall remain until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
26 And in that day shall be heard of wars and rumors of wars, and the whole earth shall be in commotion, and men’s hearts shall fail them, and they shall say that Christ delayeth his coming until the end of the earth.
27 And the love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound.
28 And when the times of the Gentiles is come in, a light shall break forth among them that sit in darkness, and it shall be the fulness of my gospel;
29 But they receive it not; for they perceive not the light, and they turn their hearts from me because of the precepts of men.
30 And in that generation shall the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
31 And there shall be men standing in that generation, that shall not pass until they shall see an overflowing scourge; for a desolating sickness shall cover the land.
32 But my disciples shall stand in holy places, and shall not be moved; but among the wicked, men shall lift up their voices and curse God and die.
33 And there shall be earthquakes also in divers places, and many desolations; yet men will harden their hearts against me, and they will take up the sword, one against another, and they will kill one another.
34 And now, when I the Lord had spoken these words unto my disciples, they were troubled.
35 And I said unto them: Be not troubled, for, when all these things shall come to pass, ye may know that the promises which have been made unto you shall be fulfilled.
36 And when the light shall begin to break forth, it shall be with them like unto a parable which I will show you—
37 Ye look and behold the fig trees, and ye see them with your eyes, and ye say when they begin to shoot forth, and their leaves are yet tender, that summer is now nigh at hand;
38 Even so it shall be in that day when they shall see all these things, then shall they know that the hour is nigh.
39 And it shall come to pass that he that feareth me shall be looking forth for the great day of the Lord to come, even for the signs of the coming of the Son of Man.
40 And they shall see signs and wonders, for they shall be shown forth in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath.
D&C 45 segues from the time of the gentiles ending to the events that build up to the coming of Christ. Verse 40 is super interesting because there are many signs and wonders, but not all will see them. Blessed are those who have eyes to see and hear!
Matthew 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
Edit: The end times servant is told he will also be a light to the gentiles, so just because the time of the gentiles is over does not mean that gentiles are forbidden from joining - it just means that the wimpy mormon ads will have to come down at some point and the focus is no longer on the gentiles but on the gathering ... imvho
Isaiah 42:6 I the Lord have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
I like the wording in the IIT version - subtle but powerful change:
Isaiah 42:6
I Jehovah have rightfully called you
and will grasp you by the hand;
I have created you and appointed you
to be a covenant for the people,
a light to the nations,
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/42#three_col
Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
ITT
Isaiah 49:6 he said: It is too small a thing
for you to be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to restore those preserved of Israel.
I will also appoint you to be a light to the nations,
that my salvation may be to the end of the earth
http://www.isaiahexplained.com/49#three_col

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Alaris
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Re: Ordered prophetic elements

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 6:33 pm
alaris wrote: September 29th, 2017, 6:04 pm
For the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
To be fair, I don't think that has happened yet.
LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 5:05 pm Have the powers of heaven been shaken? Nope.
Conceded on the last one. However every thing else has happened.
Then that's all that needs to be said. I once taught:
For a prophecy to be fulfilled, every element of it must be present, in the correct sequential order. If any element is missing or if any two elements are out of order, the prophecy is not fulfilled. (Taken from The Parable of the Redemption of Zion (D&C 101: 43-62), Take Two: a Purely Planetary/Plasma Interpretation.)
To put it more clearly, if a prophecy has ten elements: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, and these elements are prophesied to be in the correct order of: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10, in order for the prophecy to be literally fulfilled, we need to see all these elements happen in their correct order: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ,9 and 10.

If we see 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 happen (and in that order), that is not a fulfilled prophecy because #5 is missing. That is what we call a mere shadow fulfillment. If we see happen 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 7, 6, 9 and 10 (and in that order), again that is not a fulfilled prophecy, because the order is wrong. Again, that's a mere shadow fulfillment.

You can't have it both ways. It's either a shadow or a literal fulfillment. In this case, you have conceded that one element is missing, therefore the 9/23 thing can only be a mere shadow. The literal fulfillment is still future to us.
I agree with all the elements must be fulfilled - however if the sign is given before or even right before one of the elements is fulfilled then ... the sign itself is still a marker - it's a sign!!! I don't think there is a better word. It's like a street sign. If the street sign pops up right before the final element (be it # 5 or # 10) appears, then the sign is a marker to those who believe and those who see to get ready. Change ahead.

I will point out that if one element is missing, and the rest were fulfilled then we may be at the cusp for the heavens to shake. I would not know that if it weren't for your posts, so I thank you for that! :)

Edit: I have been thinking a lot about this verse lately - verse 15
JST Revelation 12:
13 For when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man-child.
14 Therefore, to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might flee into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent casteth out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helpeth the woman, and the earth openeth her mouth, and swalloweth up the flood which the dragon casteth out of his mouth.
This is what happens after the man child is born. The heavens shaking may be directly related to verses 15 and 16. I may start a new thread on this as it may require a tin foil hat first to discuss what I have in mind here as to the fulfillment of the heavens shaking and verses 15 and 16. Again thank you! :)

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Love »

I hoped these slides would be helpful with your rainbow theory.
[/quote]

Looks great Love! Did you make these? I won't have time to delve in until later today. Thank you! :)
[/quote]

No
I sourced the site in the original post, sorry I'm still getting the hang of this site and all the implications in Regards to sourcing and such. When I read your blog and then during study came across these slides I thought that they might fit nicely. I'm a student not a teacher. My gift is not speaking or writing. As for looking into posts I look for scriptures to be the ultimate source to base fact or truth, because I can verify with The Spirit.
Last edited by Love on September 29th, 2017, 7:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by sushi_chef »

waita\miniiiiiiiiiito!!

one mighty and strong should be resurrected joseph according to....

"As I walked along over the plains of Illinois, lonely and solitary, I reflected as follows: I am now drawing near to the beloved city; in a day or two I shall be there. How shall I meet the sorrowing widows and orphans? How shall I meet the aged and widowed mother of these two martyrs? ....

With these reflections and injuries I walked onward, weighed down as it were unto death. When I could endure it no longer, I cried out aloud, saying: O Lord! in the name of Jesus Christ I pray Thee, show me what these things mean, and what I shall say to Thy people? On a sudden the Spirit of God came upon me, and filled my heart with joy and gladness indescribable; ....

The Spirit said unto me: "Lift up your head and rejoice; for behold! it is well with my servants....My servant Joseph shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfil that to which he is appointed."

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/PPPratt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Thou shalt stand upon the earth when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man, and be removed out of its place: thou shalt stand when the mighty judgments go forth to the destruction of the wicked: thou shalt stand on Mount Zion when the tribes of Jacob come shouting from the north, and with thy brethren, the sons of Ephraim, crown them in the name of Jesus Christ: Thou shalt see thy Redeemer come in the clouds of heaven, and with the just receive the hallowed throng with shouts of hallalujahs, praise the Lord. Amen

(Joseph Smith, Sr., Patriarchal Blessing Book no. 1, Historical Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.) 」

also remembers bishop koyle said found one mighty and strong would be joseph after communicating him....

so, holy ghost should not say contradictory things....

:arrow:

"

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Alaris
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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Alaris »

sushi_chef wrote: September 29th, 2017, 7:56 pm waita\miniiiiiiiiiito!!

one mighty and strong should be resurrected joseph according to....

"As I walked along over the plains of Illinois, lonely and solitary, I reflected as follows: I am now drawing near to the beloved city; in a day or two I shall be there. How shall I meet the sorrowing widows and orphans? How shall I meet the aged and widowed mother of these two martyrs? ....

With these reflections and injuries I walked onward, weighed down as it were unto death. When I could endure it no longer, I cried out aloud, saying: O Lord! in the name of Jesus Christ I pray Thee, show me what these things mean, and what I shall say to Thy people? On a sudden the Spirit of God came upon me, and filled my heart with joy and gladness indescribable; ....

The Spirit said unto me: "Lift up your head and rejoice; for behold! it is well with my servants....My servant Joseph shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfil that to which he is appointed."

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Early-Saints/PPPratt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Thou shalt stand upon the earth when it shall reel to and fro as a drunken man, and be removed out of its place: thou shalt stand when the mighty judgments go forth to the destruction of the wicked: thou shalt stand on Mount Zion when the tribes of Jacob come shouting from the north, and with thy brethren, the sons of Ephraim, crown them in the name of Jesus Christ: Thou shalt see thy Redeemer come in the clouds of heaven, and with the just receive the hallowed throng with shouts of hallalujahs, praise the Lord. Amen

(Joseph Smith, Sr., Patriarchal Blessing Book no. 1, Historical Department, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Salt Lake City, Utah.) 」

also remembers bishop koyle said found one mighty and strong would be joseph after communicating him....

so, holy ghost should not say contradictory things....

:arrow:

"
How much of that could mean Joseph Smith appearing to deliver keys just as keys were delivered to him?

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Jesef »

Just for clarity, LDSA, what do you believe or know about the Joseph-Nephi's lineage? Again, trying not to confuse what you've said with what others have proffered. Is he Joseph Smith re-incarnate? Is he Native American & Gentile mix - and his "native" bloodlines would include Mulek (through David & Jesse & Judah) as well as Joseph through Lehi & Ishmael (Ephraim & Manasseh)? Any Hyrum or Joseph lineage or was that someone else?

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Alaris »

Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 1:05 pm Just for clarity, LDSA, what do you believe or know about the Joseph-Nephi's lineage? Again, trying not to confuse what you've said with what others have proffered. Is he Joseph Smith re-incarnate? Is he Native American & Gentile mix - and his "native" bloodlines would include Mulek (through David & Jesse & Judah) as well as Joseph through Lehi & Ishmael (Ephraim & Manasseh)? Any Hyrum or Joseph lineage or was that someone else?
You may find the answer to your question in this thread that LDSA started:

/viewtopic.php?p=805705

That would be the perfect place to continue your conversation as it would be relevant to that thread.

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Re: Ordered prophetic elements

Post by Alaris »

LDS Anarchist wrote: September 29th, 2017, 7:34 pm
alaris wrote: September 29th, 2017, 6:58 pm I agree with all the elements must be fulfilled - however if the sign is given before or even right before one of the elements is fulfilled then ... the sign itself is still a marker - it's a sign!!! I don't think there is a better word. It's like a street sign. If the street sign pops up right before the final element (be it # 5 or # 10) appears, then the sign is a marker to those who believe and those who see to get ready. Change ahead.
Except that in this case, the 9/23 "sign" is missing something more, something that came between two elements of the prophecy:
And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. (Revelation 12:1-2)

And there appeared a great sign in heaven, in the likeness of things on the earth; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars. And the woman being with child, cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. (JST Revelation 12:1-2)
This wasn't just a visual sign, it was also an audible one. The audio was missing from the so-called Revelation 12 Sign. Why? Because it was a mere shadow.
Given the majority of the elements of the scriptures you quoted that were manifest on and near 9/23, I am not so arrogant as to say that because I personally didn't hear a woman crying or didn't fully comprehend that element of the sign as to say then none of the many other elements count either.

The woman is the church. Is she crying? Is she laboring under the weight of the sins of the world crying for a day of deliverance? Is not our church itself infiltrated by sin, pornography, and divorce? The building of the Kingdom of God will deliver us from the telestial slime that afflicts our church. So in this basic understanding of where we are as a church in relation to the birthing of the kingdom of God we are absolutely pained to be delivered.

Isn't it amazing how when you write by the Spirit you can learn something new just as when speaking by the Spirit?
We are absolutely pained to be delivered. How many in these forums who claim they are LDS delight to make a mockery of his brother or gratify their own pride at the expense of truth unable to admit wrongdoing or error for the sake of learning and perfection?

I'm listening to general conference right now and the first two talks by the Apostles are about these very topics. Pride, contention, immodesty, etc. The eclipse was in the first talk and was used to illustrate the stumbling block of pride....the need to be right eclipsing the desire to discover truth.

The heavens will shake.
Ether 12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Jesef »

alaris wrote: September 30th, 2017, 2:46 pm
Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 1:05 pm Just for clarity, LDSA, what do you believe or know about the Joseph-Nephi's lineage? Again, trying not to confuse what you've said with what others have proffered. Is he Joseph Smith re-incarnate? Is he Native American & Gentile mix - and his "native" bloodlines would include Mulek (through David & Jesse & Judah) as well as Joseph through Lehi & Ishmael (Ephraim & Manasseh)? Any Hyrum or Joseph lineage or was that someone else?
You may find the answer to your question in this thread that LDSA started:

/viewtopic.php?p=805705

That would be the perfect place to continue your conversation as it would be relevant to that thread.
Alaris, are you saying my comment is off-topic because you believe that the “Josephite”/Joseph-Nephi figure is NOT the Davidic Servant? Thanks.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

Post by Alaris »

Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 3:27 pm
alaris wrote: September 30th, 2017, 2:46 pm
Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 1:05 pm Just for clarity, LDSA, what do you believe or know about the Joseph-Nephi's lineage? Again, trying not to confuse what you've said with what others have proffered. Is he Joseph Smith re-incarnate? Is he Native American & Gentile mix - and his "native" bloodlines would include Mulek (through David & Jesse & Judah) as well as Joseph through Lehi & Ishmael (Ephraim & Manasseh)? Any Hyrum or Joseph lineage or was that someone else?
You may find the answer to your question in this thread that LDSA started:

/viewtopic.php?p=805705

That would be the perfect place to continue your conversation as it would be relevant to that thread.
Alaris, are you saying my comment is off-topic because you believe that the “Josephite”/Joseph-Nephi figure is NOT the Davidic Servant? Thanks.
Nope, I'm saying it's off topic because this topic is about the sign on 9/23. :) I'd be happy to read and even chime in should I feel prompted to do so, but I would like to keep this thread focused on the sign of possible. Thank you.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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But the topic also says “the Davidic Servant” and the Revelation 12 sign is being represented as the sign of his coming forth, among other things, so wouldn’t anything to do with Davidic Servant be relevant and on-topic?

I think it is difficult to tell in many prophetic & apocalyptic scriptures what language is literal vs figurative or symbolic. When language is figurative or symbolic, some believers (in a given interpretation) will accuse others (who interpret differently) of being spiritually blind (not having “eyes to see” or “ears to hear”, for example). For example, what if the constellation “Virgo” is not the woman referred to by John in his revelation? Or is it universally recognized? The same with the other symbols. They are not definitive and various believers have interpreted them over the centuries to mean many different things in physical reality.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 3:36 pm But the topic also says “the Davidic Servant” and the Revelation 12 sign is being represented as the sign of his coming forth, among other things, so wouldn’t anything to do with Davidic Servant be relevant and on-topic?

I think it is difficult to tell in many prophetic & apocalyptic scriptures what language is literal vs figurative or symbolic. When language is figurative or symbolic, some believers (in a given interpretation) will accuse others (who interpret differently) of being spiritually blind (not having “eyes to see” or “ears to hear”, for example). For example, what if the constellation “Virgo” is not the woman referred to by John in his revelation? Or is it universally recognized? The same with the other symbols. They are not definitive and various believers have interpreted them over the centuries to mean many different things in physical reality.
I'll clarify. The topic is about the Davidic Servant and the sign on 9/23. Feel free to look at the OP and the blog of links to and you'll see. There are other threads on the identity of the DS.

Your questions about Virgo is relevant to this thread as are how to open your eyes and ears to discern whether this is the sign. If the spirit has witnessed to me of the sign as it has... Then those who flatly reject it of course are curious to me. Not once have these comments reflected anything other than pride as is evidenced in the comments of "nothing will happen" or "nothing happened" as though they had authority to declare such especially given the lack of any qualifying statements indicating any humble, sincere consideration or prayer. Rather there's been mocking, condescension, and disbelief. Agendas are clear, pride is present, and fear sometimes is even evident... All of which will cause spiritual blindness. Yet these are not accusations but invitations to humility, sincere pondering, and prayer.

By the power of the holy ghost you may know the truth of all things. Those who have come out in support of 9/23 being a sign have absolutely reflected such. Thank you.

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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Alaris, so do you believe it was possibly a "shadow sign" like LDSA does or that it was the literal fulfillment of Revelations 12, i.e. "the actual sign" ("a great wonder in heaven"), at this point?

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Re: The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

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LDS Anarchist wrote: September 30th, 2017, 4:36 pm
Jesef wrote: September 30th, 2017, 1:05 pm Just for clarity, LDSA, what do you believe or know about the Joseph-Nephi's lineage? Again, trying not to confuse what you've said with what others have proffered. Is he Joseph Smith re-incarnate? Is he Native American & Gentile mix - and his "native" bloodlines would include Mulek (through David & Jesse & Judah) as well as Joseph through Lehi & Ishmael (Ephraim & Manasseh)? Any Hyrum or Joseph lineage or was that someone else?
No, he is not Joseph Smith re-incarnate. He is a Nephite and a Josephite, being of the tribe of Judah through Mulek, of the tribe of Manasseh through Lehi and of the tribe of Ephraim through Ishmael. He is a Josephite because he is descended from Joseph the son of Lehi. He is a Nephite because all the Josephites were also Nephites. All the Josephites bore the surname Joseph-Nephi. Thus, they were Josephites and they were also Nephites.

He was raised as a Gentile, so the guy won't know his actual, blood lineage. He won't have any of the blood of Hyrum or Joseph in his lineage. He is not a Josephite in the sense that he is a descendant of Joseph Smith, but a Josephite in the sense of the Nephite tribal designation known as the Josephites. (Others were the Jacobites and Zoramites.) So, he's a mutt, composed of three tribes of Israel with whatever Gentile blood happened to have mixed in over the years.
Thanks for that. What do you make of that patriarchal blessing quoted by sushi-chef? Is that just JS coming back resurrected or re-incarnating or what?

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