The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

[Alaris]

Denver Snuffer believes he is the Davidic Servant and that the Lord gave him the new name "David" - I think this also is synonymous with "the one mighty and strong" from D&C 85 - the guy certainly has a penchant for trying to self-fulfill scriptural prophecies:

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/pgp/david/

CONTINUING REVELATION
THE NEW NAME DAVID
Revelation given to Denver Snuffer, Jr, 10 September, 2011.

On the 10 th day of September, 2011 the word of the Lord said to me, You shall no longer be called Denver, but your name shall be called David. I was startled to hear this, and it troubled me. I regarded David as an adulterer and a murderer, who killed Uriah to hide his adultery. In response to Nathan's parable of the rich man who took the poor man's lamb in 2 Samuel, Chapter 12, David condemned himself to die for his sin. If David considered himself worthy to die, then should I not also condemn David? The more I reflected on this, the more troubled I became. I asked God to give to me another name, not the unwanted David.

For a day and a half my distress grew, and I prayed repeatedly to have the name changed. I feared it memorialized and perhaps also foreshadowed failure and rebellion. I did not want to have the Lord view me as either rebellious or a failure. I thought the name was detestable, the name of a bloody man who was unfit to build the Lord's house, whose family was torn apart by infighting. After a day and a half of prayer asking to change the name, the Lord answered in a perfectly mild voice saying, I thought it no great insult to be called the Son of David.

His gentle response cut my heart and made me ashamed. I learned David means: Beloved of God. This made me all the more embarrassed at how meanly I had reacted and spoken to the Lord about His gift to me. Instead of thinking it an unworthy name, I concluded I was unworthy of His gift. I asked Him to forgive me and He frankly did so. I am an ignorant and prideful man.

I expected to keep this private, and after doing so for six years, I have been commanded to make this known.

The Davidic Servant revealing his own identity publicly certainly doesn't smell right does it? Especially all that pretense about hating the name David. If you have such a relationship with the Lord that He is speaking to you and renaming you, then be thou grateful and be called by whichever name He chooses!

I hope the Lord uses His prophets to identify the Davidic Servant as He did with Samuel, which is a great Bible lesson:

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/1-sam/16.7

That said, President Monson saying, "Here is the Davidic Servant" sounds a little too easy doesn't it? It seems to me the Davidic Servants public unveiling will be a divisive event.

Also, the Lord says He has hidden the Davidic Servant in the shadow of His hand. Why hide him? I certainly have my thoughts on this, but regardless of the reason for hiding Him it stands to reason that there may be something singular about the unveiling. Just sayin' :ymhug:

It doesn't seem right to me either that the Davidic Servant should reveal himself. First, the Lord could hardly come as a thief in the night if we knew who the Davidic Servant was, now could he? Seems like a dead giveaway.

Second, wouldn't it seem more apropos that "by his fruits he shall know him"? It seems to me the Lord would move things by the spirit, not announcement. At least not until the end, the calamitous end, you know? I just figured that we would all figure it out if we were meant to and those who know probably wouldn't divulge because we can't get in the way of the Lord's timing. Just my two cents. Not as eloquent as it could be, but you get the idea. Ultimately, there have been many times that I could not covet a message I wanted to convey because the words wouldn't come out right. I think it is because I wasn't supposed to say them. Other times I will say things to others that I hardly remember even saying but those other people said they felt the spirit very strongly. Now I felt the spirit myself, but felt like I wasn't conveying myself properly. The point is, the spirit will emerge when it's right, as will the Davidic Servant. I just don't know that I believe that he will announce himself. I'm not an expert on the DS though. I'm just observing how the Lord usually works.

Exactly!

[Alaris]

Denver Snuffer believes he is the Davidic Servant and that the Lord gave him the new name "David" - I think this also is synonymous with "the one mighty and strong" from D&C 85 - the guy certainly has a penchant for trying to self-fulfill scriptural prophecies:

http://scriptures.info/Scriptures/pgp/david/

CONTINUING REVELATION
THE NEW NAME DAVID
Revelation given to Denver Snuffer, Jr, 10 September, 2011.

On the 10 th day of September, 2011 the word of the Lord said to me, You shall no longer be called Denver, but your name shall be called David. I was startled to hear this, and it troubled me. I regarded David as an adulterer and a murderer, who killed Uriah to hide his adultery. In response to Nathan's parable of the rich man who took the poor man's lamb in 2 Samuel, Chapter 12, David condemned himself to die for his sin. If David considered himself worthy to die, then should I not also condemn David? The more I reflected on this, the more troubled I became. I asked God to give to me another name, not the unwanted David.

For a day and a half my distress grew, and I prayed repeatedly to have the name changed. I feared it memorialized and perhaps also foreshadowed failure and rebellion. I did not want to have the Lord view me as either rebellious or a failure. I thought the name was detestable, the name of a bloody man who was unfit to build the Lord's house, whose family was torn apart by infighting. After a day and a half of prayer asking to change the name, the Lord answered in a perfectly mild voice saying, I thought it no great insult to be called the Son of David.

His gentle response cut my heart and made me ashamed. I learned David means: Beloved of God. This made me all the more embarrassed at how meanly I had reacted and spoken to the Lord about His gift to me. Instead of thinking it an unworthy name, I concluded I was unworthy of His gift. I asked Him to forgive me and He frankly did so. I am an ignorant and prideful man.

I expected to keep this private, and after doing so for six years, I have been commanded to make this known.

Even though I have appreciated many things I've read from Denver and I feel that there have been some pearls in what he has said, and I've tried to be as impartial as I possibly can be regarding Denver, I have never been convinced that Denver Snuffer represents Jesus Christ or that he is the Lord's mouthpiece here on earth. I have been convinced that Denver has his own movement, with his own agenda.

-Finrock

That's a great point. I too try to be somewhat impartial in regards to Denver Snuffer. I never want to assume someone is or isn't called of God unless I've tried those spirits myself.

[Alaris]

Avraham Gileadi posted an article on 9/23. The article is beautifully written and he reaches many of the same conclusions I have reached about 9/23. He adds a bit about translation, and though I've certainly wondered if the Davidic Servant would be translated on 9/23, I did not include it in my original blog (linked in the OP of this article.) I have speculated about that with my wife and with other friends (and friends on LDSFF.)

I felt the spirit confirm and comfort me after reading his blog. I posted my thoughts and feelings about his article on my own blog. I really don't like the word blog.

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... rt-ii.html

Avraham Gileadi's article.

http://www.isaiahinstitute.com/2017/09/ ... 2017s.html

[Alaris]

My understanding is that he will be translated, but maybe not in the precise instant he gets out of his box. Elijah the Tishbite has to come back and give him the keys of translation for that to happen and so it may be that the angels will visit him from time to time, and not all at once, giving him bit by bit over time, like with Joseph Smith. But, then again, maybe this time it won't be like with Joseph Smith, who got line upon line, in piece meal fashion. Maybe with this guy he will get everything from the get-go?

Lotta maybes there...

I have a feeling it's the latter - I totally agree he's been stifled. The stifling will stand in stark contrast to his empowerment. This is the ministry of justice and glory. His humble beginnings will stand in stark contrast to his kingdom he quickly amasses ... in my very humble opinion.

[Alaris]

His humble beginnings will stand in stark contrast to his kingdom he quickly amasses ...

I realize that people who believe in a coming servant, be he whovever they think he will be , believe that he will immediately start to establish the kingdom of God, but that is not my understanding. I teach that first comes his carrot:

Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God. (Isaiah 49:4)

Next comes his work:

Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God. (Isaiah 49:4)

And then finally, when all of that has occurred, will he start working on God's work. So, those expecting Zion to be established once this guy shows up will still have some time to wait. God has to train this man, which is accomplished through his carrot and his work.

Carrot?

[dafty]

My understanding is that he will be translated, but maybe not in the precise instant he gets out of his box. Elijah the Tishbite has to come back and give him the keys of translation for that to happen and so it may be that the angels will visit him from time to time, and not all at once, giving him bit by bit over time, like with Joseph Smith. But, then again, maybe this time it won't be like with Joseph Smith, who got line upon line, in piece meal fashion. Maybe with this guy he will get everything from the get-go?

Lotta maybes there...

His 'receiving bit by bit' in likensess of J.Smith's experience has always been strongly impressed upon me. J.Smith had ministering of angels over the period of ~7 years before the church was established and so I presume it might be similar. thanks

[Jesef]

Isaiah 49:2
2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

1 Nephi 21:2
2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;

Isaiah 11:6
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

2 Nephi 21:6
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.

Revelations calls him a "man child". It wouldn't make sense for him to be a "a little child" in intelligence.

[Durzan]

Although there are similarities between the two, the Davidic Servant and the Marred Servant are not one and the same. Both are forerunners to Christ's second coming, and are types and shadows of Christ himself. Both will perform great works. Both will reveal and restore things that are lost. Both establish or reestablish a great city. Both will likely be translated.

However, The Davidic Servant's ministry will take place upon the Eastern Continents (specifically in Palestine), while the Marred Servant's ministry will take place upon the American Continents. The Marred Servant will establish Zion, and usher in the Restoration of All Things. The Davidic Servant will watch over and protect the state of Israel, and restore the gospel among a small number of them before Christ comes. Both are important, both have overlapping ministries and both fulfill similar prophecies... however, they are distinct and separate individuals with their own tasks and missions.

Just reminding you guys that there IS a subtle distinction between the two. I focus on the Marred Servant, because Heavenly Father speaks to me a lot about him and his mission.

[Jesef]

So which Isaiah/Nephi verses refer to the Marred Servant (obviously 3 Nephi 21 refers to him clearly) and which to the Davidic Servant?

What have you learned about each of them that you can share?

Isaiah 52:14
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

Gileadi Isaiah 52
13 My servant, being astute, shall be highly exalted;
he shall become exceedingly eminent:
14 just as hed appalled many—
his appearance was marred beyond human likeness,
his semblance unlike that of men—
15 So shall he yet astounde many nations,
kings shutting their mouths at him—
what was not told them, they shall see;
what they had not heard, they shall consider.

3 Nephi 21:10
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

3 Nephi 20:44
44 As many were astonished at thee — his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men—

[Jesef]

I'm thinking the "one mighty and strong" (D&C 85:7 and Isaiah 28:2) is the same as the marred servant from 3 Nephi 21 and Isaiah 52 and he would be in the Americas.

While the Davidic Servant would be equivalent to what the Jews are looking for in the Mashiach/Moshiach - Messiah meaning "deliverer" and "anointed one", also a king. Here's what some orthodox Jews believe about him:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_c ... f-Days.htm

What does the word Moshiach mean?
Moshiach is the Hebrew word for “messiah.” The word messiah in English means a savior or a “hoped-for deliverer.” The word moshiach in Hebrew actually means “anointed.” In Biblical Hebrew, the title moshiach was bestowed on somebody who had attained a position of nobility and greatness. For example, the high priest is referred to as the kohen ha-moshiach.
In Talmudic literature the title Moshiach, or Melech HaMoshiach (the King Messiah), is reserved for the Jewish leader who will redeem Israel in the End of Days.

What is the belief in Moshiach?
One of the principles of Jewish faith enumerated by Maimonides is that one day there will arise a dynamic Jewish leader, a direct descendant of the Davidic dynasty, who will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, and gather Jews from all over the world and bring them back to the Land of Israel.
All the nations of the world will recognize Moshiach to be a world leader, and will accept his dominion. In the messianic era there will be world peace, no more wars nor famine, and, in general, a high standard of living.
All mankind will worship one G‑d, and live a more spiritual and moral way of life. The Jewish nation will be preoccupied with learning Torah and fathoming its secrets.
The coming of Moshiach will complete G‑d’s purpose in creation: for man to make an abode for G‑d in the lower worlds—that is, to reveal the inherent spirituality in the material world.

Is this not a utopian dream?
No! Judaism fervently believes that, with the correct leadership, humankind can and will change. The leadership quality of Moshiach means that through his dynamic personality and example, coupled with manifest humility, he will inspire all people to strive for good. He will transform a seemingly utopian dream into a reality. He will be recognized as a man of G‑d, with greater leadership qualities than even Moses.

Afterthought: the Temple in Jerusalem has not been rebuilt and so this is a very specific sign yet to be fulfilled which indicates there is still some time left.

Question: are you certain that these astrological signs (Revelations 12) that are supposed to be happening on 9/23 have never, ever happened since Jesus Christ's birth/lifetime?

[Alaris]

So which Isaiah/Nephi verses refer to the Marred Servant (obviously 3 Nephi 21 refers to him clearly) and which to the Davidic Servant?

What have you learned about each of them that you can share?

Isaiah 52:14
14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

Gileadi Isaiah 52
13 My servant, being astute, shall be highly exalted;
he shall become exceedingly eminent:
14 just as hed appalled many—
his appearance was marred beyond human likeness,
his semblance unlike that of men—
15 So shall he yet astounde many nations,
kings shutting their mouths at him—
what was not told them, they shall see;
what they had not heard, they shall consider.

3 Nephi 21:10
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

3 Nephi 20:44
44 As many were astonished at thee — his visage was so marred, more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men—

I would also like to hear more from you Durzan. My impression has been the Marred Servant is the Davidic Servant and that the Root is another servant who is aligned with Jerusalem while the Davidic Servant is aligned with both New Jerusalem and Jerusalem.

As for the marring, I've been studying and pondering this a great deal lately. I don't think the servant is necessarily marred by "them."

3 Nephi 21:10
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

Being marred because of them does not necessarily mean being marred by them. I have had some great discussions with LDS Anarchist about this marring and about the "spiritual box" that has the servant enclosed. Here is what I feel this all means:

The spiritual box may be the marring - To get somewhat technical (as an IT person) the body interfaces with the spirit. Those interfaces may be marred to repress the gifts that the Davidic Servant has earned learning and receiving line upon line and gift upon gift before this life. The Servant is commanded to awake and arise in Isaiah 51:9 as though he has been asleep to his true identity. He would not have been asleep unless his gifts were somewhat hidden from even himself. This could be the marring .... To keep the servant hidden, the Lord has perhaps nerfed his pituitary gland or pineal gland.

Still this doesn't explain the "visage." However, we all tend to interpret things through our telestial veil lenses. What if his visage is disfigured from the other side of the veil to keep him hidden from evil spirits. We do not know by what mechanism Seraphim are able to hide their identity (Isaiah 6) but I believe reaching this level of progression requires a level of stealth to thwart the adversary. The Lord Himself was hidden from the adversary as a boy while King Herod slaughtered children.

Here is 3 Nephi 21:10 with all of this in mind:

3 Nephi 21:10
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.

How does healing a disfigured person show "them" that the Lord's wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil? This only makes sense if the healing itself reveals wisdom. Once the servant is healed, then we will see just how the Lord has hidden this man. Also, Isaiah 52:13 and 15 give context that helps understand this POV.

Isaiah 52:13 ¶ Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high.

14 As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men:

15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.

The use of past and future tense give further clues here. The marring precedes the exaltation and the sprinkling (gather JST) of nations. The marring may be a physical limitation of access to spiritual abilities - the servant was more physically limited to the spiritual realm more so than any man. "His form more than the sons of men" could be a continuance of "his form marred more than the sons of men" or it could be that his form or spiritual form is more than the sons of men. If it's the latter then this could be an alternate wording:

My servant shall be exalted and very high.
As many as were astonished at how his spiritual visage was marred more than any man to hide him, his true spiritual form being greater than the sons of men.
So shall he gather the nations; kings shall shut their mouths at him ...

----

Finally "his form more than the sons of men" could mean that his spiritual form requires more to hide him more so than the sons of men as there are other men who are hidden from the adversary - not requiring as much to achieve that end. I believe some of the 144,000 are alive and hidden from the adversary as well.

[Jesef]

So what do you think disqualifies Denver Snuffer, who claims to be renamed "David", from being the Davidic Servant, besides the fact that he is out in the open? He just started his public ministry and offered a covenant, he claims from God to Gentiles to join the remnant of Jacob, a few weeks prior to this astrological sign everyone is talking about on 9/23. What if he starts ministering in power after 9/23, and that is his true unveiling?

He also intimates that he is the "mighty and strong" one, basically indicating he is both and they are one person. He has already also intimated that he is the "marred servant" from 3 Nephi 21 (he did this in his 10th talk in Phoenix/Mesa).

If the actual "Davidic Servant" is the Jew's Moshiach/Messiah (not The Lord, but the latter-day prophet/servant/leader) who helps rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem, and is actually a separate person than the "marred servant"/"mighty and strong" one, then Denver is double wrong: 1) they are not the same person, and 2) he is not a Jew and isn't going to be the deliverer/prophet/leader in Jerusalem who helps them rebuild the Temple. This would very well debunk him entirely.

[dafty]

Just briefly, my 2 cents...with regards to marring, I came accross this article bout Japanese war camps(http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... camps.html) and it made me think- how on earth could DS be spared physical suffering, when hes supposed to suffer on behalf of his people in order to deliver them? makes no sense to me. Secondly, partaining to mr Snuffer- how on earth can he be DS, since he does not fulfil clearly laid out in scriptures criteria for that man?!
I have been proven wrong by many a member on this forum, so I wont insist i am right this time, just simply sharing my observations...

[clarkkent14]

What if he starts ministering in power after 9/23, and that is his true unveiling?

What if he starts on 9/21? http://enewspaper.latimes.com/desktop/l ... a3e6f93835

Does that make a difference?

Perhaps this is the last call for the Gentiles? http://www.christianreformation500years ... dates.html

[Alaris]

What if he starts ministering in power after 9/23, and that is his true unveiling?

What if he starts on 9/21? http://enewspaper.latimes.com/desktop/l ... a3e6f93835

Does that make a difference?

Perhaps this is the last call for the Gentiles? http://www.christianreformation500years ... dates.html

Might could. Isn't 9/21 the first day of the feast of trumpets? I believe Jupiter pops out around then and then the alignment happens on 9/23. I'll have to look it up again.

[clarkkent14]

Rosh Hashanah (Hebrew: ראש השנה), (literally "head of the year"), is the Jewish New Year. It is the first of the High Holidays or Yamim Noraim ("Days of Awe"), celebrated ten days before Yom Kippur. Rosh Hashanah is observed on the first two days of Tishrei, the seventh month of the Hebrew calendar. It is described in the Torah as יום תרועה (Yom Teru'ah, a day of sounding [the Shofar]).

Rosh Hashana begins at sundown on Wed, 20 September 2017.

Oh yeah that coronation thing: http://thetorah.com/coronation-on-rosh- ... d-of-king/

[dafty]

Why does everyone think DS will start his official ministry on the date? Similar sign happened around SAVIOURS birth yet It took ~30 years for him to start his ministry. Also, any hazard warning road sign, its placed strategically and well ahead of the hazard in order to warn a driver, so why would sign from God be any different? So Im with J.Pratt on this one thinking the sign heralds things to come. In support of this reasoning, Ill mention 2014-5 blood moons that were an obvious signs yet nothing happened there and then- definitely nothing on a global scale anyways. Now, if these signs are first and foremost, personal signs to DS and indicated his descent phase(blood moons) and then ascendancy(The sign of 9/23) then unless you think u r the man, the signs will just seem to come and go. So for now, Ill stick to what I said already- 9/23 will be the awakening of Lords Servant and he will begin His ministry(His as opposed to Lords ministry-LDSAnarchist gave good insight into this theory) thanks

[Silver]

What if nothing happens, or rather, what if September 23, 2017, begins and ends like every other day this year? How will you guys who are expecting something to happen on the 23rd recover? What is the next date that you will reach out to as you theorize on these things?

By the way, everything you want to know about Denver Snuffer's fall from grace is explained in Doctrine & Covenants 121.

[dafty]

What if nothing happens, or rather, what if September 23, 2017, begins and ends like every other day this year? How will you guys who are expecting something to happen on the 23rd recover? What is the next date that you will reach out to as you theorize on these things?

By the way, everything you want to know about Denver Snuffer's fall from grace is explained in Doctrine & Covenants 121.

well it all depends what one's expectations are. I personally believe, that if he is to be awakened/born on that date then he will have at least 7 years of "his work", before he starts the official ministry as The Lord's elias. Now, what that work will involve im not certain and depending on what it will consist of, we may not even know of him until he raises to prominence. On the other hand, you do have a point, that if anyone belives himself/herself to be that person- then, I guess it will be hard for them to get over this huge dissapointment...but it aint my problemo

[dafty]

may I also add...since when has non believing become a virtue? . I'd rather study, come to conclusions, interpret etc. then be tested by the Lord because my interpretation/my ways/expectations were incorrect, rather than not believe in anything/not expect anything/ not crave nor hope, because its easier and basically gurantees no disappointments. Call me old school and stuck in the early 90's, but I do think its better to burnt out than to fade away-u know,that hot/cold vs lukewarm thing

[Jesef]

I have to admit, ever since the year 2000, every year has been touted as some sort of apocalyptic start time. The last few years have been the worst, EVERY September since like 2012! So, I got curious and wanted to see if this astrological configuration coming up next week is really cosmically and historically monumental - some are claiming it has not occurred in recorded history (at least 7000 years). Many LDS, Remnant, Evangelical and end-times Christians are interested in this and believe it to be a unique fulfillment of Revelations 12. A lot of these predictions are originating from people using modern software like Stellarium (http://www.stellarium.org/) to look forward to various astrological configurations that they interpret to be significant.

Here's a bona-fide astronomer who thinks it's religious bunk (with some good reasons):
http://earthsky.org/human-world/biblica ... er-23-2017

It turns out that, objectively, this same astrological phenomena has occurred at least 4 times in the last 1000 years alone: 1827, 1483, 1293, and 1056. And that was only doing a Stellarium search (backwards) to 1017 (1000 years).

The other observation I would cite is that almost every Christian generation since Christ has thought they were going to be the last, the one that would usher in the Second Coming. Are we truly unique, the one (we are certainly the most recent)? All these generations saw their fulfillment of signs, etc. Do we just see what we want to see? How many anticipations have been disappointed?

I will say this, though, about the Marred and/or Davidic Servants - and Revelations - all these prophecies mention supernatural signs, wonders, miracles, powers, etc. (from both the good guys and the bad guys: beast & anti-Christ, too), so if we aren't seeing weird, spectacular, marvelous type things - impossible, scientifically inexplicable things - as well as global-scale events - like asteroid impacts, nuclear war, etc. - I would have to say it's all still just anticipation until these things actually start materializing and happening.

[Finrock]

Maybe all these predictions and speculations are being used by people to fill a void that they have in their life. Perhaps without these things to look forward to, life would be too mundane or even meaningless. They provide a means and a thing to anticipate and to be prepared for. Perhaps the real changes and miracles and signs that need to happen are those that happen inside of us, those which change our very being, and which leads us to appreciate the here and the now and taking joy in being present.

-Finrock

[SmallFarm]

Just because the clock has struck twelve numerous times before doesn't make it any less of a sign of a new day

[Jesef]

We will see, truly. Lots of good, believing, dedicated folks over many, many generations have anticipated all kinds of things with "spiritual certainty" and been proven (by reality) to be wrong, in error, mistaken. Often, with imminent apocalypse "end timers" they end up re-contextualizing (their prophetic interpretations) and then pushing the date, as it were. After multiple failures to materialize, multiple disappointments, they usually end up confronting their cognitive dissonance and accepting they were wrong. NDE's and visions have proven to be particularly erroneous.

People love to anticipate and to fantasize. The good news is with a real "wait and see" approach, there's no disappointment. If it happens, it will actually happen. It will be visible and real and the whole world will witness something. Like a hurricane (God bless all the recent victims). Or a meteor or asteroid impact. In today's media world, none of us will miss it. It's going to be quite a show, if/when it ever actually starts. Denver giving talks to a tiny and mostly disinterested non-LDS Christian audience in a couple big cities doesn't qualify, in my view, as monumental, btw.

Also, I think it's quite productive to simply look at the end of one's own mortal life as "the (personal and real) end times" or "the (personal and real) apocalypse". Everyone has a "Second Coming" (meeting The Lord) waiting for them at the end of their mortal life. Be ready for that. With all the prophesied suffering and horrors, I'm not even sure I'm that interested in surviving.

[Z2100]

Friends,

I have created a blog. I did not want to, but as difficult as it is to format a blog, it's easier than doing it here and easier on the eyes than reading a lengthy forum post. So without further ado:

http://lordoftheseraphim.blogspot.com/2 ... aimer.html

So this blog is about the sign from Revelation 12 of the crowned woman clothed with the sun that seems to occur on 9/23/2017 and how it may be related to the anointing of the Davidic Servant. Enjoy!

9 days until September 23rd! I remember when I first heard about it back in March. I can't believe we're 9 days away!