LDS Freedom Forum

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pmGod revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pmGod revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God

This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 8:27 pm

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pmGod revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God

This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.

You deny Joseph Smith, No, I never said I deny Joseph Smith. What I have said is I deny much of his teachings not born of revealed scripture. Big difference. See how you play word games to somehow imply that I am a reprobate?
The prophet of the restoration.
The key holder of the dispensation of the fullness of times.

If you knew the true identity of Joseph Smith, maybe you would then understand the peril in which you place your salvation. But since you do not know, mercy applies.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pm ...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 9:59 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 8:27 pm

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 7:51 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pmGod revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God

This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.

You deny Joseph Smith, No, I never said I deny Joseph Smith. What I have said is I deny much of his teachings not born of revealed scripture. Big difference. See how you play word games to somehow imply that I am a reprobate?
The prophet of the restoration.
The key holder of the dispensation of the fullness of times.

If you knew the true identity of Joseph Smith, maybe you would then understand the peril in which you place your salvation. But since you do not know, mercy applies.

More horse pucky. I think you will say anything in order to invoke some kind of guilt trip, and using your own judging ways to make it stick. But guess what, this is a fruitless, worthless and ridiculous effort that means absolutely nothing. If today's prophet wanted us to make Joseph Smith an idol, they would quote him more often and tell us that everything he ever said is gospel truth. It saddens me to think you can be so gullible.

Apparently you make scripture fit Joseph's narrative instead of testing Joseph's words to see if they fit the narrative in scripture. Scripture trumps anyone. It is scripture that all these people you use as idols are supposed to relate their knowledge from.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

I'm sorry our conversation went south, but I refuse to be treated as dross so your pride can further the swelling of your head and increasing your level of importance. You could really do well to learn humility.

Apparently you make scripture fit Joseph's narrative instead of testing Joseph's words to see if they fit the narrative in scripture. Scripture trumps anyone. It is scripture that all these people you use as idols are supposed to relate their knowledge from.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:34 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pm ...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...

Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:58 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:34 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pm ...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...

Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:13 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:58 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:34 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pm ...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...

Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:56 pmYou present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands. You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:13 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:58 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:34 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 6:58 pm ...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...

Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:56 pmYou present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands. You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:52 pm

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:56 pmYou present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands. You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:02 am

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:13 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:52 pm

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:56 pmYou present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.


The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands. You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.


But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:20 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:02 am

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978

Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. It's in the book!

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:28 am

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:13 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:52 pm

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:31 pm

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law. Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:32 amMichael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:20 amJehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 1:21 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:28 am

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 12:13 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:52 pm

Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.

So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law. Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6

Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:13 amNow where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:26 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:13 amNow where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:37 am

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:26 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:13 amNow where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:56 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:37 am

freedomforall wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:26 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 13th, 2017, 2:13 amNow where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)

The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

Get over it. If you already knew my answer, then all it was was another setup, of which I expect from you regularly. Having said this, my answer is correct. In the temple they say Jehovah, Michael, not Jehovah Michael. It is you that has things mixed up! Say all you want, but everyone attending the temple that truly listens will agree with me, not you.

Jehovah is not Michael.
God the Father is not Adam or Jehovah
If Jehovah and Michael were the same person we would hear, "I will go down..."
We do hear "WE will go down..."
Therefore, Adam cannot be Michael and God simultaneously. So there we have it.
Again, bye.

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:19 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 11:13 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:58 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote: ↑September 12th, 2017, 10:34 pm Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!

All I can do is reveal what Joseph taught, but your reason to ask is not to know but to condemn. You know very well what my answer is, the only answer that is consistent with "Adam the archangel".