The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.
That's odd.

What Spencer W. Kimball said was that they ate the fruit and their bodies were changed. That is in perfect harmony with the scripture.

Why do you say it is not?

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 19th, 2017, 12:28 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am
freedomforall wrote: September 19th, 2017, 4:39 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 10:47 pm God revealed plain and precious truths to Joseph and Brigham that they may be restored.
But yet ...
You wish. Say all you want but do not expect very many to agree with you. Your batting average is really low. Look how many people truly hang on every word coming from your direction. What, maybe four at most?
A more recent prophet declared the Adam-God theory as false, yet you disregard him, just as much as you claim we disregard prophets from 187 years ago. So what is your problem? You will not win. You post the same quotes over and over and we post quotes refuting your posts and it goes on and on and on, but, still, you will not win. Redundancy is all we can expect from here on out, if that is what you want. Do you really want this back and forth nonsense to continue? What can you gain from it other than sore fingers?
Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.

Yep, they are not many, but they are awesome. I hope to have the privileged of meeting them some day and call them my
friends , in this life or the next.

I never expected many to believe, and I never expected many to be converted to the truth. Unlike you, I'm not obsessed with someone believing or not believing anything in particular. One of the "consequences" of accepting this and related doctrine is an understanding of a bigger picture that promotes much greater patience and mercy towards others. So I am not concerned at all that you don't now believe. What does concern me is the pain and anguish you are going to suffer due to all the criticism you've expressed against this doctrine and those who revealed it when you finally realize that it is Eternal Doctrine. And you will, if not in this life, in the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, ...
You have just condemned every member of the church that does not agree with this fantasy. I can't believe how conceited you are, how pompous and sure of yourself you are...that spews harsh and evil judgement of all your brothers and sisters that have read the words you call "fairy tales" for the sake of leaning on the arm of flesh as your guide and causing heartache in those who have to hear this stuff.

I hope God will forgive you when you stand before him and have to explain why you went out of your way to put a crimp in so many testimonies held in the hearts of so many that you call your brothers and sisters. In addition, teaching stuff like this on the internet for lurkers to read and turn away from their search for truth. How many people have you caused to quit investigating the church because of your actions. You just can't seem to let things be can you?

Rom. 1:22
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

2 Ne. 9:28
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, ....

And with relation to your blatant condemnation of scriptures and those believing them:

Alma 41:15
15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.

I testify that Alma 41:15 is not a fairy tale. Also, we all know your true colors now.
Oh, My. How you twist and turn things.
I have condemned no one. I have repeated;y said that I am OK if you don't believe. I have not spewed harsh and evil judgement on anyone.
I have made no condemnation of scriptures at all. Yo bare false witness. you lye about what I have said.

It is more likely the vitriol you express that would turn others away that the plain and precious truths taught restored and taught by Joseph and Brigham.

I've not said anything about Alma 41:15. I made no claim that it is a fairy tail. I have not said that all the scriptures are a fairy tail.
Al I have done is repeat the words of Prophets. It is you that claim to be more wise than these prophets.

I have simply expressed sorrow for one who criticizes the prophets and those who believe them. We will have to accept all eternal doctrines before we can become Gods and Goddesses.

It is you that needs the council of Alma.
Alma 41:
14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye receive your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again.
15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.
It is you that exposes your true nature, you have lied about what I have said. I have not condemned those who do not believe. I have not condemned the scriptures. It is you who have condemned me for believing the plain and precious truths restored by Joseph and Brigham.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 4:49 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.
That's odd.

What Spencer W. Kimball said was that they ate the fruit and their bodies were changed. That is in perfect harmony with the scripture.

Why do you say it is not?
It also says they were immortal resurrected beings when they came.
And that they become mortal due to eating the fruits of this earth.
That is the change that their "transgretion" caused. If eating the fruits
containing the seeds of death, they did not cause the fall of the earth,
it already had the seeds of death when they ate. They caused themselves
and their offspring to be mortal.

Joseph and Brigham taught us of the finer substance in the bodies
of immortal beings in place of the blood of mortal beings. They taught
that the offspring of beings with this finer substance are beings of
spirit bodies. While the offspring of beings with blood are mortal
physical beings.

What President Kimball taught is in harmony with the plain and precious
truths taught by Joseph and Brigham.

The scriptures do not teach of the finer substance. Nor do they teach
that Adam and Eve were immortal when they came to the garden.
They do not teach the effects of finer substance or blood on their
offspring. They teach that Eve was made from one of Adam''s ribs.

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LoveIsTruth
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 4:49 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.
That's odd.

What Spencer W. Kimball said was that they ate the fruit and their bodies were changed. That is in perfect harmony with the scripture.

Why do you say it is not?
It also says they were immortal resurrected beings when they came.
No, Kimball didn't.

He said they were immortal. He did NOT say they were "resurrected" because that would be stupid, since they a) never died yet, and b) would die after the fall. Both a) and b) preclude the possibility of them being resurrected beings in the garden because a) you cannot be resurrected if you never died, and b) resurrected being cannot die, but Adam did. (That is if you do not call modern day scriptures restored in their purity by a modern Prophet "fairy tales.")

So you are wrong about that.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm And that they become mortal due to eating the fruits of this earth.
That is the change that their "transgretion" caused. If eating the fruits
containing the seeds of death, they did not cause the fall of the earth,
it already had the seeds of death when they ate.
I have already proven to you that only one fruit contained "the seeds of death." The rest were perfectly fine, because they were told to eat all of them, and that they would live forever doing so! "they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Nephi 2:22).

So you are wrong again. And you ascribe your error to Kimball, which he never seconded! That's not right.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm They caused themselves
and their offspring to be mortal.

Joseph and Brigham taught us of the finer substance in the bodies
of immortal beings in place of the blood of mortal beings. They taught
that the offspring of beings with this finer substance are beings of
spirit bodies. While the offspring of beings with blood are mortal
physical beings.

What President Kimball taught is in harmony with the plain and precious
truths taught by Joseph and Brigham.
Yes, but not in harmony with wrong and stupid things you teach!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm The scriptures do not teach of the finer substance. Nor do they teach
that Adam and Eve were immortal when they came to the garden.
Wrong again:

"they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Nephi 2:22). That is immortal by definition.

Does it even count anymore? You've been slapped with the word of God in the scriptures over and over again, but you just shirk them off and call them "fairy tales!" Then who is it that disregards the words of the Prophets?

It is you!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm They do not teach the effects of finer substance or blood on their
offspring. They teach that Eve was made from one of Adam''s ribs.
And what exactly is the problem with that? Even today scientists can take a single cell from one animal and create another.

Do you think God is less capable?

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:03 pmIt is you that exposes your true nature, you have lied about what I have said. I have not condemned those who do not believe. I have not condemned the scriptures. It is you who have condemned me for believing the plain and precious truths restored by Joseph and Brigham.
Since you, by some obvious indications, cannot understand plain English, go back and read what I said instead of what you think I said. I said that because of your ranting and posting false doctrine, this can and will affect anyone weak in their testimony and probably dissuaded anyone investigating the church to turn away. This is not false ideas, it happens to be true and does happen. I also stated that by you condemning me for my beliefs...beliefs shared by thousands of members, you have emphatically condemned us for not believing as you do. When will you ever take responsibility for your actions. Good grief! Grow up!
Would you like for me to spell it out again for you? Or will you deny it again and shove your mistakes on me?
Why are you here, anyway?

Here is a huge lie coming from your mouth:
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:"You are now making things up to keep your fairy tail that Adam dies.
He died only in the fairy tail, In reality he did not die."
These are your words, not mine, yet your assertion is wrong and a lie. So get off your high horse and face the music.
Last edited by freedomforall on September 19th, 2017, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:50 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 4:49 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.
That's odd.

What Spencer W. Kimball said was that they ate the fruit and their bodies were changed. That is in perfect harmony with the scripture.

Why do you say it is not?
It also says they were immortal resurrected beings when they came.
No, Kimball didn't.

He said they were immortal. He did NOT say they were "resurrected" because that would be stupid, since they a) never died yet, and b) would die after the fall. Both a) and b) preclude the possibility of them being resurrected beings in the garden because a) you cannot be resurrected if you never died, and b) resurrected being cannot die, but Adam did. (That is if you do not call modern day scriptures restored in their purity by a modern Prophet "fairy tales.")

So you are wrong about that.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm And that they become mortal due to eating the fruits of this earth.
That is the change that their "transgretion" caused. If eating the fruits
containing the seeds of death, they did not cause the fall of the earth,
it already had the seeds of death when they ate.
I have already proven to you that only one fruit contained "the seeds of death." The rest were perfectly fine, because they were told to eat all of them, and that they would live forever doing so! "they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Nephi 2:22).

So you are wrong again. And you ascribe your error to Kimball, which he never seconded! That's not right.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm They caused themselves
and their offspring to be mortal.

Joseph and Brigham taught us of the finer substance in the bodies
of immortal beings in place of the blood of mortal beings. They taught
that the offspring of beings with this finer substance are beings of
spirit bodies. While the offspring of beings with blood are mortal
physical beings.

What President Kimball taught is in harmony with the plain and precious
truths taught by Joseph and Brigham.
Yes, but not in harmony with wrong and stupid things you teach!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm The scriptures do not teach of the finer substance. Nor do they teach
that Adam and Eve were immortal when they came to the garden.
Wrong again:

"they must have remained forever, and had no end." (2 Nephi 2:22). That is immortal by definition.

Does it even count anymore? You've been slapped with the word of God in the scriptures over and over again, but you just shirk them off and call them "fairy tales!" Then who is it that disregards the words of the Prophets?

It is you!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:21 pm They do not teach the effects of finer substance or blood on their
offspring. They teach that Eve was made from one of Adam''s ribs.
And what exactly is the problem with that? Even today scientists can take a single cell from one animal and create another.

Do you think God is less capable?
I believe God is bound by eternal law. There indeed are things that God can not do.
His power is his Honor and Glory. His power is that the "things that act" obey him
and do what he asks them to do with the "things that are acted upon". And he does
not ask them to do what they do not know how to do. And the only ones that know
how to produce a physical body are the ones that are already part of a physical body.

There is no other way to achieve immortality than resurrection, the very way Jesus did it,
hence "Come follow me" and "I am the way". All immortal males are offspring
of immortal males and mortal females and resurrected by their immortal father. And all
immortal females are resurrected by their immortal husbands. Only bodies can produce
bodies, Only the resurrected can resurrect. That is a plain and precious truth.

Arguing with you over the Garden Story is like trying to have a discussion about all the colors
and hues in the rainbow with someone who is color blind.

Moses wrote the Garden fairy tail to hide plain and precious truths from those that could not
accept the realities of the procreation of Gods, the Identity of Gods, the very nature of Gods.
So why hide the truth from them, they'll just reject. No, they done just reject it, they mock
and criticize it and anyone who teaches or accepts it. And they do it to their damnation.
So a kind and merciful God tries to lesson their sin by not giving them the plain and precious
truths for them to criticize and mock. But this is the dispensation of the fullness of times.
It is the dispensation when all things will be restored.

And you prove that Moses was very successful with his little fairy tail, and that God can
only protect us from ourselves for so long.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:34 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 6:03 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 19th, 2017, 12:28 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 5:12 am

Yet that very same recent prophet taught, in a First Presidency Message to the body of the Church, what actually happened in
the Garden, yet you disregard him. What he taught is not in harmony with the garden fairy tales in the cannon of scripture. But
it is very much in harmony with what Joseph and Brigham taught. So you disregard their teachings as well.

Yep, they are not many, but they are awesome. I hope to have the privileged of meeting them some day and call them my
friends , in this life or the next.

I never expected many to believe, and I never expected many to be converted to the truth. Unlike you, I'm not obsessed with someone believing or not believing anything in particular. One of the "consequences" of accepting this and related doctrine is an understanding of a bigger picture that promotes much greater patience and mercy towards others. So I am not concerned at all that you don't now believe. What does concern me is the pain and anguish you are going to suffer due to all the criticism you've expressed against this doctrine and those who revealed it when you finally realize that it is Eternal Doctrine. And you will, if not in this life, in the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, or the next, ...
You have just condemned every member of the church that does not agree with this fantasy. I can't believe how conceited you are, how pompous and sure of yourself you are...that spews harsh and evil judgement of all your brothers and sisters that have read the words you call "fairy tales" for the sake of leaning on the arm of flesh as your guide and causing heartache in those who have to hear this stuff.

I hope God will forgive you when you stand before him and have to explain why you went out of your way to put a crimp in so many testimonies held in the hearts of so many that you call your brothers and sisters. In addition, teaching stuff like this on the internet for lurkers to read and turn away from their search for truth. How many people have you caused to quit investigating the church because of your actions. You just can't seem to let things be can you?

Rom. 1:22
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

2 Ne. 9:28
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, ....

And with relation to your blatant condemnation of scriptures and those believing them:

Alma 41:15
15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.

I testify that Alma 41:15 is not a fairy tale. Also, we all know your true colors now.
Oh, My. How you twist and turn things.
I have condemned no one. I have repeated;y said that I am OK if you don't believe. I have not spewed harsh and evil judgement on anyone.
I have made no condemnation of scriptures at all. Yo bare false witness. you lye about what I have said.

It is more likely the vitriol you express that would turn others away that the plain and precious truths taught restored and taught by Joseph and Brigham.

I've not said anything about Alma 41:15. I made no claim that it is a fairy tail. I have not said that all the scriptures are a fairy tail.
Al I have done is repeat the words of Prophets. It is you that claim to be more wise than these prophets.

I have simply expressed sorrow for one who criticizes the prophets and those who believe them. We will have to accept all eternal doctrines before we can become Gods and Goddesses.

It is you that needs the council of Alma.
Alma 41:
14 Therefore, my son, see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually; and if ye do all these things then shall ye receive your reward; yea, ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again; and ye shall have good rewarded unto you again.
15 For that which ye do send out shall return unto you again, and be restored; therefore, the word restoration more fully condemneth the sinner, and justifieth him not at all.
It is you that exposes your true nature, you have lied about what I have said. I have not condemned those who do not believe. I have not condemned the scriptures. It is you who have condemned me for believing the plain and precious truths restored by Joseph and Brigham.
Since you cannot understand plain English, go back and read what I said instead of what you think I said. I said that because of your ranting and posting false doctrine, this can and will affect anyone weak in their testimony and probably dissuaded anyone investigating the church to turn away. This is not false ideas, it happens to be true and does happen. I also stated that by you condemning me for my beliefs...beliefs shared by thousands of members, you have emphatically condemned us for not believing as you do. When will you ever take responsibility for your actions. Good grief! Grow up!
Would you like for me to spell it out again for you? Or will you deny it again and shove your mistakes on me?
Why are you here, anyway?
I tried to report your post but could not, someone else already did.
So I am not the only one that has problems with your post.

It is you that says the things that I repeat from the words of prophets are false doctrine.
It is not God, who revealed these words to the prophets.

You said that I condemn all who do not believe, that is a bold faced lye.
No, I don't want any more of your lies.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pmArguing with you over the Garden Story is like trying to have a discussion about all the colors and hues in the rainbow with someone who is color blind.

Moses wrote the Garden fairy tail to hide plain and precious truths from those that could not
accept the realities of the procreation of Gods, the Identity of Gods, the very nature of Gods.

So why hide the truth from them, they'll just reject. No, they done just reject it, they mock
and criticize it and anyone who teaches or accepts it.
Just like you do to us that reject Adam-God, and especially the self-righteous way with-which it is presented? And they do it to their damnation. And you don't?
So a kind and merciful God tries to lesson their sin by not giving them the plain and precious
truths for them to criticize and mock.
Talk about fairy tales. This one is huge. But this is the dispensation of the fullness of times.
It is the dispensation when all things will be restored. And when it is, will you then deny current prophets as messengers of further light and knowledge?

And you prove that Moses was very successful with his little fairy tail, and that God can
only protect us from ourselves for so long.
Lies, all lies. A blind man using braille could outwit you any day.
What you call a fairy tale is an insult and a very grievous thing to say to those that know in their heart what truth is. Do you assume you have a monopoly on scriptural understanding? Your posting of JS and BY says volumes about how much you don't understand coming from scripture. All you do is regurgitate their words and treat them as idols. Being color blind is nothing compared to what we are witnessing here.

User avatar
LoveIsTruth
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm There is no other way to achieve immortality than resurrection, the very way Jesus did it,
hence "Come follow me" and "I am the way".
Nice to hear that Jesus still counts for something with you, seeing you worship Adam above Jesus! Well, at least that's a start.

Remember Adam cannot save you. He cannot save even himself! Only Jesus and His Real Father can save you. (And that is NOT Adam!) Wow! I can't believe we have to talk about this! It is like a twilight zone!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm All immortal males are offspring
of immortal males and mortal females
There you go again into your Cuckoo land!
Moroni is resurrected now. He was born of two mortal parents. Cuckoo.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm and resurrected by their immortal father. And all
immortal females are resurrected by their immortal husbands. Only bodies can produce
bodies, Only the resurrected can resurrect. That is a plain and precious truth.
Ok. Question:

What if a body is burned to ash and sprinkled over the ocean (happened to a lot of people): how are their immortal bodies produced from the ash? Surely they are not born of a woman again to reconstitute their bodies from the dust. Are they?
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm Arguing with you over the Garden Story is like trying to have a discussion about all the colors
and hues in the rainbow with someone who is color blind.
No, talking with you about Garden Story is like talking to someone without realizing the fact they are missing a head! It is shocking!

It's like the basic comprehension of righteousness and eternal progression is missing! Only this way can you explain why you would assert that Jesus, who never yielded to temptation, will become Adam who yields to temptation.

Bizarre!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm Moses wrote the Garden fairy tail to hide plain and precious truths from those that could not
accept the realities of the procreation of Gods, the Identity of Gods, the very nature of Gods.
So why hide the truth from them, they'll just reject. No, they done just reject it, they mock
and criticize it and anyone who teaches or accepts it. And they do it to their damnation.
So a kind and merciful God tries to lesson their sin by not giving them the plain and precious
truths for them to criticize and mock. But this is the dispensation of the fullness of times.
It is the dispensation when all things will be restored.
There is nothing wrong with procreation of Gods, or nature of Gods. The only thing wrong is that you got the whole thing out of order.

Here is the correct order:

1) The greatest being in this eternity is Elohim, our Heavenly Father, and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and of spirits of all men who belong to this world and to many others.
2) After Him in order is Jehovah/Jesus who is the Firstborn spirit child of the Father, and is his Only Begotten in the flesh, and is the Savior of the Universe under the Father.
3) Next is the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead,

and only way below them is Adam. Way.

Learn that the greater the intelligence is, the less it transgresses the laws of God in the long run. Jesus transgressed nothing. Adam did. So Jesus is greater, and more intelligent than Adam. And Jesus is second only to his Father, Elohim, who is also our Father as well, the Father of our spirit bodies.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm And you prove that Moses was very successful with his little fairy tail, and that God can
only protect us from ourselves for so long.
The only fairy tail here is told by you.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:59 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pmArguing with you over the Garden Story is like trying to have a discussion about all the colors and hues in the rainbow with someone who is color blind.

Moses wrote the Garden fairy tail to hide plain and precious truths from those that could not
accept the realities of the procreation of Gods, the Identity of Gods, the very nature of Gods.

So why hide the truth from them, they'll just reject. No, they done just reject it, they mock
and criticize it and anyone who teaches or accepts it.
Just like you do to us that reject Adam-God, and especially the self-righteous way with-which it is presented? And they do it to their damnation. And you don't?
So a kind and merciful God tries to lesson their sin by not giving them the plain and precious
truths for them to criticize and mock.
Talk about fairy tales. This one is huge. But this is the dispensation of the fullness of times.
It is the dispensation when all things will be restored. And when it is, will you then deny current prophets as messengers of further light and knowledge?

And you prove that Moses was very successful with his little fairy tail, and that God can
only protect us from ourselves for so long.
Lies, all lies. A blind man using braille could outwit you any day.
What you call a fairy tale is an insult and a very grievous thing to say to those that know in their heart what truth is. Do you assume you have a monopoly on scriptural understanding? Your posting of JS and BY says volumes about how much you don't understand coming from scripture. All you do is regurgitate their words and treat them as idols. Being color blind is nothing compared to what we are witnessing here.
You speak of that which you know not off.
I know and understand very well what the prophets taught.
That is because I, unlike you, have studied them.
I was unaware of these things in the past.
I was seeking answers to some of my life long questions.
And one day, deep in thought, pondering what I had read in the scriptures
and remembering the words of the endowment, I suddenly understood something.
And it was that very thing, that small inspiration, that directly brought me
to the writings of Joseph, Brigham, John Taylor, George Q. Cannon, et al.
After a life time of searching for answers to my questions in the scriptures,
it became obvious why I could not find the answers in the scriptures.
Because these plain and precious were not in the scriptures, only the shadow
or ghost of them remain. But they are restored in the writings of the prophets
of the restoration, the one that has been prophecised of to restore the fullness of truth.
I am not blind to the truth, I am not blind to the scriptures, I am not blind to
the plain and precious things restored.

And you, you have not the wit to even recognize when you have been out witted.
A simple example, Michael the archangel, you just don't get it. You will some
day, although probably not soon. You pay too much attention to the mote in my eye
to address the beam in yours.

Your continued harassment, criticism, and miss representation of what I've said, of what
I know and understand has no bearing on me, it only serves to properly represent who
and what you are.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:35 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm There is no other way to achieve immortality than resurrection, the very way Jesus did it,
hence "Come follow me" and "I am the way".
Nice to hear that Jesus still counts for something with you, seeing you worship Adam above Jesus! Well, at least that's a start.

Remember Adam cannot save you. He cannot save even himself! Only Jesus and His Real Father can save you. (And that is NOT Adam!) Wow! I can't believe we have to talk about this! It is like a twilight zone!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm All immortal males are offspring
of immortal males and mortal females
There you go again into your Cuckoo land!
Moroni is resurrected now. He was born of two mortal parents. Cuckoo.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm and resurrected by their immortal father. And all
immortal females are resurrected by their immortal husbands. Only bodies can produce
bodies, Only the resurrected can resurrect. That is a plain and precious truth.
Ok. Question:

What if a body is burned to ash and sprinkled over the ocean (happened to a lot of people): how are their immortal bodies produced from the ash? Surely they are not born of a woman again to reconstitute their bodies from the dust. Are they?
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm Arguing with you over the Garden Story is like trying to have a discussion about all the colors
and hues in the rainbow with someone who is color blind.
No, talking with you about Garden Story is like talking to someone without realizing the fact they are missing a head! It is shocking!

It's like the basic comprehension of righteousness and eternal progression is missing! Only this way can you explain why you would assert that Jesus, who never yielded to temptation, will become Adam who yields to temptation.

Bizarre!
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm Moses wrote the Garden fairy tail to hide plain and precious truths from those that could not
accept the realities of the procreation of Gods, the Identity of Gods, the very nature of Gods.
So why hide the truth from them, they'll just reject. No, they done just reject it, they mock
and criticize it and anyone who teaches or accepts it. And they do it to their damnation.
So a kind and merciful God tries to lesson their sin by not giving them the plain and precious
truths for them to criticize and mock. But this is the dispensation of the fullness of times.
It is the dispensation when all things will be restored.
There is nothing wrong with procreation of Gods, or nature of Gods. The only thing wrong is that you got the whole thing out of order.

Here is the correct order:

1) The greatest being in this eternity is Elohim, our Heavenly Father, and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and of spirits of all men who belong to this world and to many others.
2) After Him in order is Jehovah/Jesus who is the Firstborn spirit child of the Father, and is his Only Begotten in the flesh, and is the Savior of the Universe under the Father.
3) Next is the Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead,

and only way below them is Adam. Way.

Learn that the greater the intelligence is, the less it transgresses the laws of God in the long run. Jesus transgressed nothing. Adam did. So Jesus is greater, and more intelligent than Adam. And Jesus is second only to his Father, Elohim, who is also our Father as well, the Father of our spirit bodies.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 7:36 pm And you prove that Moses was very successful with his little fairy tail, and that God can
only protect us from ourselves for so long.
The only fairy tail here is told by you.
Continuing proof that Moses performed his task well!

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

My apologies, I was wrong.
Last edited by freedomforall on September 20th, 2017, 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:35 pm seeing you worship Adam above Jesus!
Yes, I do worship the Father in the name of Christ, as commanded.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

So you claim that Joseph and Brigham, the first presidency and the quorum of apostles taught false doctrine?
is that what you are saying?

User avatar
LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:43 pm You speak of that which you know not off.
I know and understand very well what the prophets taught.
That is because I, unlike you, have studied them.
I was unaware of these things in the past.
I was seeking answers to some of my life long questions.
And one day, deep in thought, pondering what I had read in the scriptures
and remembering the words of the endowment, I suddenly understood something.
And it was that very thing, that small inspiration, that directly brought me
to the writings of Joseph, Brigham, John Taylor, George Q. Cannon, et al.
After a life time of searching for answers to my questions in the scriptures,
it became obvious why I could not find the answers in the scriptures.
Because these plain and precious were not in the scriptures, only the shadow
or ghost of them remain. But they are restored in the writings of the prophets
of the restoration, the one that has been prophecised of to restore the fullness of truth.
The plain and precious things of God do not contradict the scriptures, but complement them. What you teach is in direct contradiction to many key scriptural passages.

You are confusing "plain and precious things of God" with lies of devils and errors of men. They are not "plain and precious," they are quite abominable!

Jesus saved Adam, not the other way around! Do you get that?

If there was a spirit that convinced you of this lunacy you promote, it was not the spirit of God! It was some other spirit, and you fell pray to it.

The saddest thing though is that you are past reason. Reason has no effect on you anymore. And scriptures are "fairy tales" to you, in your own words.

How do you help such a man? You can't. I guess when you meet Jesus and Adam, then you will know who is greater. Until then, you are left to the lying spirit that seduced you. But you brought it upon yourself. All I can say: Repent.

Believe Spencer W. Kimball at least who clarified for you personally that "Adam=the Most High" is a false doctrine!

What can I say more. Repent.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:43 pm I am not blind to the truth, I am not blind to the scriptures, I am not blind to
the plain and precious things restored.
None is so blind who thinks he sees, when he gropes by a wall.

The Spirit of God will never testify that Adam is greater than Jesus. Only a lying spirit will tell you that. And you are under that influence, friend!

User avatar
LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:54 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:35 pm seeing you worship Adam above Jesus!
Yes, I do worship the Father in the name of Christ, as commanded.
You are under an influence of a lying spirit, and you do not even realize it.

Adam is not the Father of Jesus. Adam is His forefather, through Mary.
And Adam is not greater than Jesus, and never was.

Jesus saved Adam, not the other way around.

User avatar
LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:57 pm So you claim that Joseph and Brigham, the first presidency and the quorum of apostles taught false doctrine?
is that what you are saying?
No, I am saying that you do.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:11 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:54 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:35 pm seeing you worship Adam above Jesus!
Yes, I do worship the Father in the name of Christ, as commanded.
You are under an influence of a lying spirit, and you do not even realize it.

Adam is not the Father of Jesus. Adam is His forefather, through Mary.
And Adam is not greater than Jesus, and never was.

Jesus saved Adam, not the other way around.
So says you, Joseph and Brigham say otherwise:
“Is there in the heaven of heavens a leader? Yes, and we cannot do without one and that being the case, whoever this is may be called God. Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God” (Brigham Young, Journal History, May 14, 1876, Church Archives)
“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)
I chose Joseph's and Brigham's teachings over yours, hands down.

User avatar
LoveIsTruth
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

What about Spencer W. Kimball will you deny him too?

And again, the quotes you just gave, do not mean what you say they mean. You are misinterpreting them.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:57 pm So you claim that Joseph and Brigham, the first presidency and the quorum of apostles taught false doctrine?
is that what you are saying?
No, I am saying that you do.
And I teach only what they taught, but you wouldn't know that unless you studied them.

So here, study this:
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God… [and] Our God and Father in heaven… When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do… I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told… Treasure up these things in your hearts.” (JD 1: 50-51, CAPITALS in the original.)

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

“Is there in the heaven of heavens a leader? Yes, and we cannot do without one and that being the case, whoever this is may be called God. Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God” (Brigham Young, Journal History, May 14, 1876, Church Archives)

“While it is in all probability true that the gospels were originally written in Aramaic, it is even more certain that the New Testament is based upon an Old Testament-Hebraic culture and religion. This being the case, it is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam.” (The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Volume 3, pg. 327)

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873 How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290
Are these true or are they false.
Yo so readily say I teach false doctrine.
What I teach is what is above.
So, are these quotes true or are they false.
You said No to the question do you say what they teach are false.
So what of it, are these quote true doctrine or are they false doctrine?

freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:57 pm So you claim that Joseph and Brigham, the first presidency and the quorum of apostles taught false doctrine?
is that what you are saying?
No, I am saying that you do.
How many times have you had to repeat yourself to this guy? How many times has he come back with the same questions as if it were the first time, each time? How often does he ignore what you say and come back with the same lines?
How many times has he torn asunder our testimonies and gotten away with it? How often does he apologize for things said that are incorrect? How often does he say, this is my opinion, and my opinion only? How often does he admit to being wrong? How often does he say. you're right, I thought it said this?
Why has he resorted to calling scripture...scripture that thousands of people believe...fairy tales? How often has he been respectful of our beliefs? How often has he resorted to name calling and harsh judgement when called out on false doctrine?

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:25 pm What about Spencer W. Kimball will you deny him too?

And again, the quotes you just gave, do not mean what you say they mean. You are misinterpreting them.
So tell me, according to you, what do they mean?
What do you think I said they mean that is false?

Back up what you said.

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LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:28 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:14 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 8:57 pm So you claim that Joseph and Brigham, the first presidency and the quorum of apostles taught false doctrine?
is that what you are saying?
No, I am saying that you do.
And I teach only what they taught, but you wouldn't know that unless you studied them.

So here, study this:
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)

“One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God… [and] Our God and Father in heaven… When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! About whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do… I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone… Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the Garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told… Treasure up these things in your hearts.” (JD 1: 50-51, CAPITALS in the original.)

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bore your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see, The Essential Brigham Young, pg. 99)

“Is there in the heaven of heavens a leader? Yes, and we cannot do without one and that being the case, whoever this is may be called God. Joseph said that Adam was our Father and God” (Brigham Young, Journal History, May 14, 1876, Church Archives)

“While it is in all probability true that the gospels were originally written in Aramaic, it is even more certain that the New Testament is based upon an Old Testament-Hebraic culture and religion. This being the case, it is most significant that in the Hebrew language the word for man is Adam, hence in the some odd 84 passages in the gospels when Jesus referred to himself as the Son of Man, it can be taken quite literally as a claim on Jesus' part that he was the son of Adam.” (The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Volume 3, pg. 327)

“Adam is Michael the Archangel and he is the Father of Jesus Christ and is our God and Joseph taught this principle.” (Brigham Young, December 16, 1867, Wilford Woodruff Journal)

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)

Brigham Young in the Desert News, June 18, 1873 How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine, which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God...Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him and after it was made he and his companions came here. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first women upon this earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys to everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth..."well," says one " Why was Adam called Adam"? He was the first man on earth, and its framer and maker. He, with the help of his brethren brought it into existence. Then he said, "I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful, I received my crown and exaltation. I have the privilege of extending my work, and to its increase there will be no end. I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come and take tabernacles of flesh, that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle or a dwelling place as mine has, and where is the mystery?

"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290
Are these true or are they false.
Yo so readily say I teach false doctrine.
What I teach is what is above.
So, are these quotes true or are they false.
You said No to the question do you say what they teach are false.
So what of it, are these quote true doctrine or are they false doctrine?
It does sound like Brigham Young is slightly off his rocker in these quotes, but again, these quotes can be fixed and made correct with a couple of well placed words.

In either case, your interpretation of these is in stark and direct contradiction with modern day scripture, reason, and with the word of God.

Therefore I reject your interpretation as erroneous. Spencer W. Kimball did that officially in behalf of the church in 1978.

I bring Kimball into this for your sake. For me reason, scripture, and Spirit of God is enough. But Kimball certainly helps to convince some people.

I say it again: the Spirit of God will never testify that Adam is greater than Jesus, because it is a lie.

Jesus saved Adam, not the other way around!

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:36 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 19th, 2017, 9:25 pm What about Spencer W. Kimball will you deny him too?

And again, the quotes you just gave, do not mean what you say they mean. You are misinterpreting them.
So tell me, according to you, what do they mean?
What do you think I said they mean that is false?

Back up what you said.
I don't have the time to plow through this pile of manure, but if you give me a couple of sentences that you think make the strongest case for your theory, I will show you how they could be easily interpreted to fit the scriptures and the truth.
Last edited by LoveIsTruth on September 19th, 2017, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

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