The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:28 pmWell said, FF!
Thanks.

I forgot a few other terms that seem to apply to false doctrine promoters, ie, self-centeredness, smugness and egocentrism, all three under the highest term which is...narcissism.

Generally speaking, those with this condition will not listen to reason. What they say is all that is important to them. They can dish out insults, but can not take them. Their ego is to such heights as to control their every emotion and they will do or say whatever they can, or have to, to maintain their supposed superiority. They also state all kinds of stuff they have done or accomplished in order to back their sense of supreme intellect.

So where is truth to be found? What does the term "truth" actually mean? Too many people claiming to speak truth yet all opinions are different, so somebody is just making things up and claiming it to be truth, right?

I say what we find in the panoply of scripture is the best truth we have. If we can't believe them, then what do we believe, who can we trust, and who will save us from false doctrine?

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

All good points! Thanks.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 12:03 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 9:56 am You denied that Adam had an immortal body in the garden.
Never denied that.

You most certainly did, right here:
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 14th, 2017, 12:07 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 13th, 2017, 11:52 pm Do you deny that Michael has a body of flesh and bones?
Now he does, after he was resurrected, AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, because Jesus was "first to rise."

Before that Adam was very dead: spirit and body separated as God promised "unto dust shall thou return." Which Adam did.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 13th, 2017, 11:52 pm Do you deny that Michael is the King resurrected personage?
Now he is. But he is a Prince under Jesus: "Who hath appointed Michael your prince" (D&C 78:16 )
To everyone in England, Harry is their prince. So Harry is subordinate to everyone in England?? No.
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 12:03 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 9:56 am You deny that Christ is subordinate to Adam.
Yes. Very much so. It is blatantly false and contradicts the scriptures. Spencer W. Kimball also denies that because this would imply that Adam is the Most High, and Kimball declared that to be a false doctrine. (If the scriptures and reason are not enough for you).
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 9:56 am I reasoned with you, showing you that Adam(Michael) is the archangel and that arch means king and an angel has an immortal body (D&C 1291)
Yet, you denied that.

I reasoned that Christ, having a body of spirit, was subordinate to Adam, having a resurrected immortal body.
Would you also "reason" that Christ is subordinate to Cain, because Cain too will have resurrected and immortal body?
And now you twist the truth, I never said anything of the sort.
I have been talking about the Garden time, when Adam first went there.
All those to be born on this planet were spirit children, including Cain and Christ.
And Adam came with a resurrected immortal body.
He was superior to all yet to come, he was their father.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:02 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:28 pmWell said, FF!
Thanks.

I forgot a few other terms that seem to apply to false doctrine promoters, ie, self-centeredness, smugness and egocentrism, all three under the highest term which is...narcissism.

Generally speaking, those with this condition will not listen to reason. What they say is all that is important to them. They can dish out insults, but can not take them. Their ego is to such heights as to control their every emotion and they will do or say whatever they can, or have to, to maintain their supposed superiority. They also state all kinds of stuff they have done or accomplished in order to back their sense of supreme intellect.

So where is truth to be found? What does the term "truth" actually mean? Too many people claiming to speak truth yet all opinions are different, so somebody is just making things up and claiming it to be truth, right?

I say what we find in the panoply of scripture is the best truth we have. If we can't believe them, then what do we believe, who can we trust, and who will save us from false doctrine?
Certainly reveals your nature, resort to name calling

AD HOMINEM

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:01 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:49 pm So here is a small sample of what it looks like, ...
None of these quotes needs to mean that Adam is the Most High. Something that Spencer W. Kimball expressly condemned as false doctrine.
What do these verses tell us?

Gen. 1:26
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Abr. 5:7
7 And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

Adam sure as heck wasn't a Celestial body, huh? Even Pres Kimball said that a resurrected person cannot have their body and spirit separated ever again. So this sends HBMH's ideas clear out into outer space.

freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:20 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:02 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:28 pmWell said, FF!
Thanks.

I forgot a few other terms that seem to apply to false doctrine promoters, ie, self-centeredness, smugness and egocentrism, all three under the highest term which is...narcissism.

Generally speaking, those with this condition will not listen to reason. What they say is all that is important to them. They can dish out insults, but can not take them. Their ego is to such heights as to control their every emotion and they will do or say whatever they can, or have to, to maintain their supposed superiority. They also state all kinds of stuff they have done or accomplished in order to back their sense of supreme intellect.

So where is truth to be found? What does the term "truth" actually mean? Too many people claiming to speak truth yet all opinions are different, so somebody is just making things up and claiming it to be truth, right?

I say what we find in the panoply of scripture is the best truth we have. If we can't believe them, then what do we believe, who can we trust, and who will save us from false doctrine?
Certainly reveals your nature, resort to name calling

AD HOMINEM
Thank you so much for validating my assertion. Well done.

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LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:16 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 13th, 2017, 11:52 pm Do you deny that Michael is the King resurrected personage?
LoveIsTruth wrote: Now he is. But he is a Prince under Jesus: "Who hath appointed Michael your prince" (D&C 78:16 )
To everyone in England, Harry is their prince. So Harry is subordinate to everyone in England?? No.
Prince is under King. So Prince cannot possibly be the Most High, because there is a King Higher than him.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:16 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 12:03 pm Would you also "reason" that Christ is subordinate to Cain, because Cain too will have resurrected and immortal body?
And now you twist the truth, I never said anything of the sort.
I have been talking about the Garden time, when Adam first went there.
All those to be born on this planet were spirit children, including Cain and Christ.
And Adam came with a resurrected immortal body.
He was superior to all yet to come, he was their father.
Kimball, Scriptures, and the Spirit condemn this perversion of the truth. It is an insult to basic logic and reason, not to mention to the word of God himself.

The only way you can get away with this wickedness is by declaring, as you did, modern day scripture, as fairy tales. But it is upon your head.

freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Here is another source for there being Gods that formed man...Adam.

Abr. 4:27 (26–31)
26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.
28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.
31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:01 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:49 pm So here is a small sample of what it looks like, ...
None of these quotes needs to mean that Adam is the Most High. Something that Spencer W. Kimball expressly condemned as false doctrine.
Joseph and Brigham trump all prophets in this dispensation concerning the nature of God.
Joseph holds the keys to this dispensation and Joseph said Brigham was the one to
teach the true nature of God.

So all of those quotes said Adam is our Father, the father of our spirits.
Joseph said it.
Brigham said it.

Are they wrong?
I have only said what they have said and you say I am wrong.

So was Joseph wrong?
So was Brigham wrong?

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:45 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:01 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 1:49 pm So here is a small sample of what it looks like, ...
None of these quotes needs to mean that Adam is the Most High. Something that Spencer W. Kimball expressly condemned as false doctrine.
Joseph and Brigham trump all prophets in this dispensation concerning the nature of God.
Joseph holds the keys to this dispensation and Joseph said Brigham was the one to
teach the true nature of God.

So all of those quotes said Adam is our Father, the father of our spirits.
Joseph said it.
Brigham said it.

Are they wrong?
I have only said what they have said and you say I am wrong.

So was Joseph wrong?
So was Brigham wrong?
I don't see them saying what you say they are saying. None of these statements have to be interpreted that Adam is the Most High. In fact such interpretation violates every revealed word of God.

And again, you just said Kimball was wrong. So you are like those who would rather follow dead prophets than the living, because Kimball was living when Joseph and Brigham were dead.

So you deny the scriptures and call them "fairy tales" and you deny modern prophets because you'd rather follow your incorrect interpretations of the opinions of dead prophets.

You are so wrong on so many levels! It's not even funny!

freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Adam did die.

D&C 107:41 (41–56)
41 This order was instituted in the days of Adam, and came down by lineage in the following manner:
42 From Adam to Seth, who was ordained by Adam at the age of sixty-nine years, and was blessed by him three years previous to his (Adam’s) death, and received the promise of God by his father, that his posterity should be the chosen of the Lord, and that they should be preserved unto the end of the earth;
43 Because he (Seth) was a perfect man, and his likeness was the express likeness of his father, insomuch that he seemed to be like unto his father in all things, and could be distinguished from him only by his age.
44 Enos was ordained at the age of one hundred and thirty-four years and four months, by the hand of Adam.
45 God called upon Cainan in the wilderness in the fortieth year of his age; and he met Adam in journeying to the place Shedolamak. He was eighty-seven years old when he received his ordination.
46 Mahalaleel was four hundred and ninety-six years and seven days old when he was ordained by the hand of Adam, who also blessed him.
47 Jared was two hundred years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam, who also blessed him.
48 Enoch was twenty-five years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam; and he was sixty-five and Adam blessed him.
49 And he saw the Lord, and he walked with him, and was before his face continually; and he walked with God three hundred and sixty-five years, making him four hundred and thirty years old when he was translated.
50 Methuselah was one hundred years old when he was ordained under the hand of Adam.
51 Lamech was thirty-two years old when he was ordained under the hand of Seth.
52 Noah was ten years old when he was ordained under the hand of Methuselah.
53 Three years previous to the death of Adam, he called Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahalaleel, Jared, Enoch, and Methuselah, who were all high priests, with the residue of his posterity who were righteous, into the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, and there bestowed upon them his last blessing.
54 And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel.
55 And the Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him: I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever.
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:43 pm Here is another source for there being Gods that formed man...Adam.

Abr. 4:27 (26–31)
26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.
28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.
31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.
Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.

That is the way all Sons have become Fathers. That is what all Fathers have done. That is what
has happened on all worlds that ever were and it is what will happen in all world yet to come.
That is what a generation of time or am eternal round is. That is what the mirrors in the celestial
room of the temple represent. Exaltations and Eterbnal Lives, both plural.

This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.

But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.

Are you Zeezrom, teach what you know not of. (But he repented)
or are you Corihor?

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:43 pm Here is another source for there being Gods that formed man...Adam.

Abr. 4:27 (26–31)
26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.
28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.
31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.
Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.

That is the way all Sons have become Fathers. That is what all Fathers have done. That is what
has happened on all worlds that ever were and it is what will happen in all world yet to come.
That is what a generation of time or am eternal round is. That is what the mirrors in the celestial
room of the temple represent. Exaltations and Eterbnal Lives, both plural.

This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.

But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.

Are you Zeezrom, teach what you know not of. (But he repented)
or are you Corihor?
Are you a MAN, or a MOUSE? Come on, squeak up!
BTW, Zeezrom is a very good example for you to follow since you brought him to our attention. Or is his example too hard for you to handle? Can you only quote him, yet not follow his example and straighten up and behave?
Last edited by freedomforall on September 18th, 2017, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:43 pm Here is another source for there being Gods that formed man...Adam.

Abr. 4:27 (26–31)
26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.
28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.
31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.
Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.

That is the way all Sons have become Fathers. That is what all Fathers have done. That is what
has happened on all worlds that ever were and it is what will happen in all world yet to come.
That is what a generation of time or am eternal round is. That is what the mirrors in the celestial
room of the temple represent. Exaltations and Eterbnal Lives, both plural.

This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.

But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.

Are you Zeezrom, teach what you know not of. (But he repented)
or are you Corihor?
Are you a MAN, or a MOUSE? Come on, squeak up!
Men don't resort to such childish things, we speak of the things of God.

freedomforall
Gnolaum ∞
Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:32 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 2:43 pm Here is another source for there being Gods that formed man...Adam.

Abr. 4:27 (26–31)
26 And the Gods took counsel among themselves and said: Let us go down and form man in our image, after our likeness; and we will give them dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So the Gods went down to organize man in their own image, in the image of the Gods to form they him, male and female to form they them.
28 And the Gods said: We will bless them. And the Gods said: We will cause them to be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it, and to have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And the Gods said: Behold, we will give them every herb bearing seed that shall come upon the face of all the earth, and every tree which shall have fruit upon it; yea, the fruit of the tree yielding seed to them we will give it; it shall be for their meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, behold, we will give them life, and also we will give to them every green herb for meat, and all these things shall be thus organized.
31 And the Gods said: We will do everything that we have said, and organize them; and behold, they shall be very obedient. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and they numbered the sixth time.
Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.

That is the way all Sons have become Fathers. That is what all Fathers have done. That is what
has happened on all worlds that ever were and it is what will happen in all world yet to come.
That is what a generation of time or am eternal round is. That is what the mirrors in the celestial
room of the temple represent. Exaltations and Eterbnal Lives, both plural.

This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.

But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.

Are you Zeezrom, teach what you know not of. (But he repented)
or are you Corihor?
Are you a MAN, or a MOUSE? Come on, squeak up!
Men don't resort to such childish things, we speak of the things of God. What a load of BS...things of God like inferring I'm as being Korihor? Do you have a forked tongue? ...things of God, right! What a joke!.
Seems as though you can't spell either.
If so, when are you going to start? So far all you've done is squeak off nonsense.
Last edited by freedomforall on September 18th, 2017, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:36 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:32 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:28 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm

Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.

That is the way all Sons have become Fathers. That is what all Fathers have done. That is what
has happened on all worlds that ever were and it is what will happen in all world yet to come.
That is what a generation of time or am eternal round is. That is what the mirrors in the celestial
room of the temple represent. Exaltations and Eterbnal Lives, both plural.

This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.

But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.

Are you Zeezrom, teach what you know not of. (But he repented)
or are you Corihor?
Are you a MAN, or a MOUSE? Come on, squeak up!
Men don't resort to such childish things, we speak of the things of God.
If so, when are you going to start? So far all you've done is spout off nonsense.
It isn't my fault that you don't recognize that Joseph and Brigham, as prophets of God, spoke of Godly things.
When I was a small boy, my grand father would set me on his lap. He would hold up a quarter and a nickel
between my eyes and the quarter so close that I could not see the quarter. Then he would say chose.
I always moved my head to see the quarter and would choose it.

My brother, you need to turn your head away from whatever it is that blocks your view of the
plain and precious truths from true messengers from the Father, the prophet chosen before
the foundations of the earth was laid to reveal.

You are on the same path as Zeezrom, follow it to the same conclusion he did.

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:47 pmYou are on the same path as Zeezrom, follow it to the same conclusion he did.
First you call me a liar, then equate me as being Korihor...then you say I am on the same path as Zeezrom.

Tell me, do you get off talking like this? Or will you simply say the devil makes you speak this way?
Last edited by freedomforall on September 18th, 2017, 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:53 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:47 pm
freedomforall wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:36 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 4:32 pm

Men don't resort to such childish things, we speak of the things of God.
If so, when are you going to start? So far all you've done is spout off nonsense.
It isn't my fault that you don't recognize that Joseph and Brigham, as prophets of God, spoke of Godly things.
When I was a small boy, my grand father would set me on his lap. He would hold up a quarter and a nickel
between my eyes and the quarter so close that I could not see the quarter. Then he would say chose.
I always moved my head to see the quarter and would choose it.

My brother, you need to turn your head away from whatever it is that blocks your view of the
plain and precious truths from true messengers from the Father, the prophet chosen before
the foundations of the earth was laid to reveal.

You are on the same path as Zeezrom, follow it to the same conclusion he did.
Are you Zeezrom? I wouldn't follow you anywhere. The conclusion is disastrous.
I, like you, did not believe the words of Joseph and Brigham in the past. But unlike you,
I never criticized them or anyone for believing them. So, in a small way, I was like Zeezrom
in my unbelief. And also in repentance. But never in teaching against the words of the Lord's
anointed.

And the things that have come my way after accepting these doctrines are in no way disastrous.
Quite the opposite, beautiful and glorious, understanding things in ways I never thought possible.
Marvelous doctrines await beyond Adam is God. It is hardly disastrous to learn and understand
the true identity and nature of God.

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LukeAir2008
captain of 1,000
Posts: 2985
Location: Highland

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LukeAir2008 »

Discourse delivered by President Brigham Young in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; April 20, 1856.

'Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.

He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.

Do you not suppose that he was acquainted with his associates who came and helped to make this earth? Yes, they were just as familiar with each other as we are with our children and parents.'
(Journal of Discourses 3:319-320)

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

LukeAir2008 wrote: September 18th, 2017, 5:33 pm Discourse delivered by President Brigham Young in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; April 20, 1856.

'Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.

He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.

Do you not suppose that he was acquainted with his associates who came and helped to make this earth? Yes, they were just as familiar with each other as we are with our children and parents.'
(Journal of Discourses 3:319-320)
Plain and precious are the words of God, delivered by his chosen one,
are they not beautiful, glorious, revealing, inspiring.
Thank you LukeAir2008

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LukeAir2008
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Posts: 2985
Location: Highland

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LukeAir2008 »

Discourse by President Heber C. Kimball delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City; June 29, 1856.

I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth --- the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted. That Son called twelve men and ordained them to be Apostles, and when he departed the keys of the kingdom were deposited with three of those twelve, viz: Peter, James, and John.
(Journal of Discourses 4:2)

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

LukeAir2008 wrote: September 18th, 2017, 5:33 pm Discourse delivered by President Brigham Young in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City; April 20, 1856.

'Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.

He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.

Do you not suppose that he was acquainted with his associates who came and helped to make this earth? Yes, they were just as familiar with each other as we are with our children and parents.'
(Journal of Discourses 3:319-320)
Now this is the most, straight forward quote ever presented here from you Adam-God lovers.

Allow me to explain.

Let's review the very first paragraph.


'Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.

Now the term father Adam only refers to Adam as the father of all mankind as is Eve the mother of all mankind. In no way is it inferred that Adam is our God.

...he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation.

He was one of the Gods that helped create this world. Notice it says "helped" not "solely" created it. This means he was under someone elses direction as the Chief Prince or manager in that operation.

Second paragraph.


He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.

Notice it says Adam brought a wife, not one of his wives. Also, Adam was created from dust of an earth, meaning he had to have a body for his spirit. And since a body and spirit of a resurrected being cannot ever be separated again, it would have been impossible for Adam to have been a resurrected, Celestial being coming to another earth to gain yet another body. Can't happen, period. Plus we are told that the body is a complete likeness of the spirit.

Moses 6:12
12 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.
Therefore, he could not have been God the Father before coming to earth because he then had a body and his spirit united forever.

Now the final paragraph.


Do you not suppose that he was acquainted with his associates who came and helped to make this earth? Yes, they were just as familiar with each other as we are with our children and parents.'

Notice it says "associates", not inferiors...not subordinates. Yes, they knew each other. Duh!

freedomforall
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Posts: 16479
Location: WEST OF THE NEW JERUSALEM

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by freedomforall »

LukeAir2008 wrote: September 18th, 2017, 6:17 pm Discourse by President Heber C. Kimball delivered in the Bowery, Great Salt Lake City; June 29, 1856.

I have learned by experience that there is but one God that pertains to this people, and He is the God that pertains to this earth --- the first man. That first man sent his own Son to redeem the world, to redeem his brethren; his life was taken, his blood shed, that our sins might be remitted. That Son called twelve men and ordained them to be Apostles, and when he departed the keys of the kingdom were deposited with three of those twelve, viz: Peter, James, and John.
(Journal of Discourses 4:2)
When was the JOD ever made scripture, or accepted as canon? Quote this stuff all day long, but it means very little to those in the know. That's just the way it is, my friends.

You can fool some of the people some of the time
You can even fool all people some of the time
But you cannot fool all the people all the time.

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LoveIsTruth
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Posts: 5497

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by LoveIsTruth »

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm Yes, the Gods most certainly did form Adam in their own image.
He was born on another world to His Immortal Father and his mortal mother.
Adam performed suffered the Atonement on that world and died.
Adam was resurrected thus becoming perfect just as his father was (because this is what he had done)
Adam then redeemed his Fathers children and thus they became his children (D&C 93:38)
Adam and Eve, as celestial immortal beings of flesh and bones, reproduced giving spirit bodies to all
they redeemed.
Adam, with his Father (Elohim) and his first born in the spirit (Jehovah) and one of his wives (Eve)
came to this world bringing with them all other life, animals, birds, fishes, insects, and plants.
Adam and Eve ate of the fruits of a fallen world thus they ate the seeds of death. As a result,
the finer celestial fluid in there bodies was replaced with blood such that there offspring
were born in blood and pain - they were mortal. and after they had raised there mortal family,
when there work here was completed, they returned to their celestial home, ate the fruits of that
world replacing the blood in their bodies with a finer fluid.
Wow this is THICK lunacy!

How can Adam perform an atonement, and then AFTER that become subject to temptation?

The only way you can believe this delirium is to deny the entirety of holy scriptures! (Not to mention Kimball said this Adam=the Most High is false doctrine).
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm This is what Joseph taught Brigham and the 12. This is what Brigham taught the 12 and the church.
This is what has been rejected by the majority of the body of the church due to iniquity and unbelief.
There is no evidence that this garbage was ever taught by the twelve. The quotes you gave can easily be interpreted a different way, and they don't say what you just said.

It was rejected by the Church and officially by a Prophet of God (would you also say that Kimball suffered from "iniquity and unbelief"?) because it is an insult to basic logic, reason, to the scriptures and to the word of God.

The only person who can believe this garbage is he who is incapable of rational thinking, and calls holy scriptures "fairy tails" which you literally did in a previous post.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote: September 18th, 2017, 3:20 pm But it is historical fact, history recorded, preserved, compiled and published under the direction of the First
Presidency, that this is what Joseph and Brigham taught.

And if you say I am wrong, you also say Joseph and Brigham are wrong. Joseph sealed his testimony in blood
as a martyr, along with his beloved brother Hyrum. And Brigham sealed his testimony in a lifelong attempt
to awaken the body of the church and died an old man.

Again, if you say this is wrong, you say that the man prophecised of for centuries and chosen before the foundations
of the world were laid, to restore the plain and precious truths lost due to iniquity and unbelief. Then you are
saying that he is wrong, and if so, you are saying God is wrong. God is the source of revelations to Joseph
and Brigham.

So go ahead and say I am wrong.
Say Joseph is wrong.
Say Brigham is wrong.
Say God is wrong.
There is no evidence that Joseph taught this garbage. The quotes you laboriously posted over and over again, can easily be interpreted a different way. And yes a Prophet of God, Spencer W. Kimball told you this is false doctrine.

So you are wrong. And it does not at all mean that Joseph was wrong.

You ARE wrong.

Hidingbehindmyhandle
captain of 100
Posts: 636

Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Post by Hidingbehindmyhandle »

God revealed plain and precious truths to Joseph and Brigham that they may be restored.
But yet ...
freedomforall wrote: August 27th, 2017, 4:45 am 3) men can't take God's word literally; they just have to argue, complain, wish, rant, argue some more and discuss it relentlessly until everyone is totally exhausted.

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