The Condemnation

[rewcox]

Below are some verses from D&C 84.

What is the condemnation?

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.

[mes5464]

Ezra T Benson used these verses to warn the church of being under condemnation for treating the BoM lightly. With the benefit of 20/20 hind sight I think he was referring more to our failure to defend the constitution and battle the secret combination more than anything else. I think we missed the message.

I also believe we treated lightly the efforts to become Zion. Something we are guilty of to this day.

[lundbaek]

I cannot judge how other members are doing with the Book of Mormon, whether any other member (other than members of my immediate family) is treating it lightly or studying it as prophets have admonished us. But I certainly can observe how Mormons generally have failed first by not being united or faithful in learning, upholding and abiding by the principles of the US Constitution, and second by largely ignoring the warnings about secret combinations among us striving to destroy the US Constitution, gain control over our government, and steal our wealth. I see the results of this neglect in our American nation, in the state in which we live and in others, and in our community and in others as well.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27245&hilit=Mormons+have+failed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ezra]

I agree on the lack of awaking to the secrete combinations and protecting the constitution.

a friend of mine who has read the Book of Mormon over a hundred times. Study's hourly to memorize scriptures throughout his day.

His example, his knowledge of scripture is so inspiring. He has opened the door for me to see just a glimps at what most miss or don't know about the scriptures. He is one of the most humble men I have met.
My knowledge is a flicker of a flame compared to his. But I'm learning.
One thing I have learned is just how ignorant I am.
Why the lord has said that his people have gone astray because of lack of knowledge. Realizing my own. And seeing mine is more then most members. (I say that humbly with their interests in mind and my heart goes out to them).
It's a scary thing just how ignorant the body of the church is. In all aspects of the gospel not just the battle for freedom and agency. But that more then others have been almost completely neglected.

[Jeremy]

The Book of Mormon is a covenant. By treating this covenant lightly we condemn ourselves by limiting our progression and the intention of the covenant.

We should each ask the question "what is the covenant"? Once we get our answer we should not treat it lightly.

Its not simply a matter of how often we read the book or how many verses we have memorized.

[marc]

Below are some verses from D&C 84.

What is the condemnation?

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.

The condemnation is the state we are still in for not "doing" what we have been told to do. To bring forth "fruit" is to be redeemed. It is the focal point of God's work and glory.

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As long as we remain on this side of the veil doing anything other than laboring toward that end, we remain condemned. But we must do it precisely as the Lord instructs. Otherwise our sacrifice is not acceptable. The Lord told the saints why they failed to redeem Zion.

[Analyzing]

Would anyone be willing to list or define, according to their understanding, the "former commandments"?

[rewcox]

I cannot judge how other members are doing with the Book of Mormon, whether any other member (other than members of my immediate family) is treating it lightly or studying it as prophets have admonished us. But I certainly can observe how Mormons generally have failed first by not being united or faithful in learning, upholding and abiding by the principles of the US Constitution, and second by largely ignoring the warnings about secret combinations among us striving to destroy the US Constitution, gain control over our government, and steal our wealth. I see the results of this neglect in our American nation, in the state in which we live and in others, and in our community and in others as well.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=27245&hilit=Mormons+have+failed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A couple of you have mentioned the constitution, so how can a few members protect it? Or is it to all in the US?

[marc]

Would anyone be willing to list or define, according to their understanding, the "former commandments"?

There were "idlers" not engaged in building up the kingdom. They were greedy and worldly. The Lord had given the saints a time limit to perform labors to redeem Zion. But the saints eventually polluted their inheritances, engaged in jarrings, contentions, etc and did not establish the cause of Zion. Read the "New Jerusalem" section, pages 211-215:

Millennial Star Vol 11, p. 212

[Ezra]

Be nice to have a cheat sheet of things we need to do to be forgiven from that condemnation

[Robert Sinclair]

Do your own personal handwritten copy of all the things Jesus Christ has said to do, and all the ways he said to be like, and all the things he said to know from a minimum of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, from the New Testament, consider these commandments, and memorize them all, then take 3rd Nephi, and do the same hand written report, of all the things, Jesus Christ said to do, and all the ways he said to be like, and all the things he said to know. Then memorize all these things as well, and then do all these things he said to do, and be all the ways he said to be like, and come to know all these things he said to know, such as in 3rd Nephi chapter 23 verse 1 where he commands to search dilligently the words of Isaiah, and verse 5 where he commands to "Search the prophets", yes you have your homework cut out for you, if you desire to follow Jesus Christ, for you must first be baptized in "all" of his words of living water, without a toe sticking out, of his words you have missed.
And seek to have all his words, enscribed upon the table, of your heart and mind and soul.
Then you will have his words, and his voice, to be with you always.♡

[marc]

Be nice to have a cheat sheet of things we need to do to be forgiven from that condemnation

It's called the Book of Mormon. Translating it is what made Joseph ask so many questions and receive so many answers (revelations), thus our condemnation for treating it lightly. The church had a chance collectively. We have a chance today. Perhaps if enough individuals rise up, heaven will take notice.

[marc]

Moroni 7: 3 Wherefore, I would speak unto you that are of the church, that are the peaceable followers of Christ, and that have obtained a sufficient hope by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven.

What is this rest? What does it mean to rest? Rest from what? Labors? What labors? From this time henceforth as in right this moment/right now/from now on? Is that possible? How?

Let's go back to section 84.

D&C 84:18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.

19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.

20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.

21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.

23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;

24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

Without the fulness of the priethood, the power of godliness is not manifest. God still resides behind the veil apart from us. What does this fulness mean, of which Enoch and his city obtained? What separates us from Enoch and his people?

D&C 76: 51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—

52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;

53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

We have much to do. And become. We must individually rise up. We have made covenants in the temple to obey five laws, yet we do not fully keep them. Thus we remain condemned. If we could authoritatively make these covenants, we would be as Zion, where if we fail to live up to them, we would as Ananias and Sapphira give up the ghost, forfeiting our lives the first time we broke them. We do not live the law of consecration. Many do not live the law of sacrifice or the law of chastity, etc. Our lips draw near to God, but our hearts are far from Him. Like the people of Joseph Smith's day, we have the form of godliness but deny the power thereof. Else talk of our calling and election, ministering of angels, mighty miracles, and the Second Comforter would be a part of our daily lives as a sanctified people.

[marc]

18 And the Lord called his people Zion, because they were of one heart and one mind, and dwelt in righteousness; and there was no poor among them.

We can start by sanctifying ourselves by having a mighty change of heart, which brings about rebirth. We can begin pondering what each of us yet lacks in our lives and stripping ourselves of all ungodliness one layer at a time. We can begin becoming one heart and one mind in our homes. Led by the Spirit, each of us can be a light in our homes and in our neighborhoods and in our wards and in our communities. Each of us can rise up and minister to those in our circles or along our paths. We can learn what it means to abase ourselves, making ourselves equal with those who are poor, thus becoming poor in spirit ourselves. We must eliminate as much of Babylon from our hearts and our homes as much as possible, seeking the cause of Zion in our homes and in our neighborhoods and in our wards and in our communities. Each of us can cause heaven to take notice.

What's the point of renewing our temple recommends and attending endowment sessions if we do not exercise any real faith in the covenants we have vowed to obey? How do our works testify to the Lord of our hearts? Why do we covenant as a church to live the law of consecration when we walk out of the temple knowing we are not living the law? Are our leaders waiting for us to rise up and begin doing so? Or are we waiting for our leaders to rise up and take the initiative? Are our leaders likewise waiting for the Lord to command us in all things (when we are already commanded to do so)? And is the Lord waiting for us to rise up and show Him how serious we are about the covenants we have vowed to obey? What are we proactively doing to make angels perk up and take notice? They weep and beg the Lord to let them come down and begin the harvest. Who weeps for Zion?

Things to ponder.

[davedan]

The consequences of condemnation may be losing this land as a land of inheritance for our children and grandchildren.

Maybe Americans and other Gentiles will be brought into bondage like the Jews. Maybe all those Chinese "ghost cities" have been built for us. Maybe those "ghost cities" are prison cities.

[marc]

I do believe that America's days as we know them are numbered. Whatever the coming scourge brings, the Lord's house will be cleansed first as He has declared. Tough times are ahead. I can only guess how they will parallel the scourge that struck the Jews after Christ ascended into heaven and how the Nephites were scourged prior to Christ's visit. It doesn't look good. All we can do, who are righteous, is stand in holy places and weather the storm. I don't even know if I want to vote this coming sham of an election. But that's another discussion. The Lord has been preaching His own sermons with storms and other natural disasters. Seems the US has been getting close calls with hurricanes lately. My heart goes out to the people of Mexico right now.

[rewcox]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

[Lizzy60]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

It's scriptural, rewcox.

[rewcox]

I do believe that America's days as we know them are numbered. Whatever the coming scourge brings, the Lord's house will be cleansed first as He has declared.

what is your version of the house being cleansed. at lDSFF groups suggest the other group is who is going to be smacked.

[rewcox]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

It's scriptural, rewcox.

show it.

[SempiternalHarbinger]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

It's scriptural, rewcox.

Yep

[marc]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

Fair enough (though that is your opinion). Let's call it my opinion formed after years of scripture study (including teachings of Joseph Smith from church resources including the 7 volume History of the Church, Millenial Star articles, Joseph Smith Papers, biographies, etc), pondering and prayer. I just used scriptures and talks by our general authorities including Joseph Smith, Ezra T. Benson and Dallin H. Oaks to support my opinion. Feel free to pick it apart and disprove it. I certainly welcome it.

[Desert Roses]

Below are some verses from D&C 84.

What is the condemnation?

54 And your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received—

55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.

56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.

57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

58 That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.

I took the question a little differently : how is the condemnation manifest in the church today? Joseph Smith wanted to take the church members to spiritual levels that he had seen but were beyond the imagination of almost all Christians of that day. He once stated that when he would teach more than he had, the Saints wouldn't tolerate it because of the traditions of their fathers. In many ways it is the same today. Our condemnation is to suffer through mortality without being "filled with the Spirit", experiencing visions as a group such as when the Kirtland temple was dedicated, having consistent progress toward becoming like the Cityof Enoch, and having the realities of eternity before our view. Instead we struggle with our day-to-day lives each doing all we can but mostly as a church being satisfied with having a higher level of the Spirit than 99% of humanity. Eventually we'll be there but we experience condemnation manifest by lack of these blessings. (I'm no different. )

[marc]

I do believe that America's days as we know them are numbered. Whatever the coming scourge brings, the Lord's house will be cleansed first as He has declared.

what is your version of the house being cleansed. at lDSFF groups suggest the other group is who is going to be smacked.

I don't have a version. I only know from D&C that it will happen.

[rewcox]

The same thing happened in Joseph Smith's day. Do we have the Melchizedek Priesthood? Yes, but not the fulness or else we would be as Enoch, enjoying this rest, which rest is the fulness, which fulness is God's presence. Moses was taken, Zion not redeemed and Israel condemned. Likewise was Joseph Smith taken along with the Melchizedek Priesthood in its fulness (we still have a portion) and latter-day Israel remains condemned.

i think this is your opinion, not church doctrine.

Fair enough (though that is your opinion). Let's call it my opinion formed after years of scripture study (including teachings of Joseph Smith from church resources including the 7 volume History of the Church, Millenial Star articles, Joseph Smith Papers, biographies, etc), pondering and prayer. I just used scriptures and talks by our general authorities including Joseph Smith, Ezra T. Benson and Dallin H. Oaks to support my opinion. Feel free to pick it apart and disprove it. I certainly welcome it.

Expand on not having the fulness. President Monson has all the keys.