Finrock,Finrock wrote: The verse you quoted says that if God's people hearken unto the voice of God and the voice of God's servants which he has appointed to lead God's people, God's people shall not be moved out of their place.
But, as I said earlier, I wholeheartedly agree that we should hearken unto the voice of God's servants if God's servants are speaking to us or leading us. The question at hand, however, is how does one identify who God's servants are? How can I identify God's servants? Or I mean more generally, how can anyone identify God's servants? Is it by title? By position? By what standard do we tell who is God's servant?
-Finrock
You ask a very important question. One that we LDS tend to assume the answer to without much thought. Many LDS assume that the servants of God are by default those called to positions in the church most especially those who are leaders in the church. These people say that the leaders of the Church are the servants of God and so you should obey them like you do God. Then they quote this verse which they feel substantiates their stance.
While this scripture is true, it is important to understand how God defines a "Servant". If you misunderstand, then you will fall into the common trap of slavery and reliance on men and not God.38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. - D&C 1
Before giving you the answer to your question, I want to dispel the false believe that the leaders of the church are the servants of God. Regarding his leaders, the Lord tells us:
The term "almost all men" in this verse does not mean 25% of men as that would be less than half which is far from "almost all". Even 50% is far from "almost all". 75% is getting close to "almost all". 100% is too high to mean almost all. About 93-96% is what I have observed but I could understand if someone else were to be more hopeful and say that the term "almost all men" meant about 80-90% of men, so we'll go with that for now.39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion. - D&C 121
The word immediately in this verse is exactly what it means. "at once; instantly. without any intervening time or space."
So, the Lord is saying that about 80-90% of all men will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion as soon as they gain even a little authority, (as they suppose).
The leaders in the church are no exception. In fact, the lord was speaking about the leaders in the church in this verse. In the verses just prior to this verse, then Lord tells us what happens to "almost all" of these priesthood leaders who exercise unrighteous dominion. He explains, (my comments in Blue);
Clearly a calling and position in the church leadership does not by default make you a servant of the Lord and they may actually be "Fighting against God"..36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.
37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true;(The priesthood can be conferred on us, however, this is immediately followed with a BUT which tells us that "There are a few, uh, provisos, a, a couple of quid pro quos." - Gene, Aladin) but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion This dominion is what we just looked at which is given in verse 39 which tells us that almost all meaning bout 80-90% of men begin to meet this negating criteria "immediately" "as soon as they get a little authority". It doesn't take much authority to bring this out on men, just a little. Like being called to be a Bishop or a Stake president. But a lot of authority tends to have the same effect. It is extremely rare to have powerful leaders who like King Benjamin, do not use there position contrary to the principles of righteousness. Then makes "almost all" or about 80-90% of men in leadership positions fit the caveat listed in this verse.) or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.
(Notice that it tells us that when the spirit is withdrawn, at that moment the man has lost the priesthood authority. This is because priesthood authority is directly connected to the spirit. Without the spirit, we have no authority or priesthood from God. But the Lord continues to tell us that these people who lost their priesthood or power from God, still retain their position that gave them a little authority. Let's say that a person just got called to be a Bishop and so they just got a little authority and they immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion and so immediately the spirit withdraws and Amen to their priesthood or authority of that man. But he was just called to be a Bishop. He isn't going to be released for 5 years or more. And most likely, the leaders that called him don't know his sins or unrighteous dominion and if they did, they would talk with him and hope he corrected prior to releasing him. Besides, "Almost all men" will do exactly the same, so releasing this brand new bishop and calling another is most likely going to have the same results. So, he stays in office and the lord goes on to tell us...
38 Behold, ere he is aware,"ere" is defined "before", so, "before he is aware" means he doesn't even know that he has lost the priesthood and authority of God. He still has the position and even without the powers of heaven backing him, he has the power that position gives him in the church. From that position without even knowing it, the lord continues... he is left unto himself,having no priesthood or power of God, but retaining the position) to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God. From his position of authority, he persecutes the Saints and fights against God. This is what 80-90% of church leaders in positions of authority do in the church. And they don't even know it.- D&C 121
This is why the lord specifically tells us a few verses down in the same section of D&C, that
Now, if you were to ask a large group of LDS leaders if they felt that they exercised unrighteous dominion, "Almost all of them" would say "no". This is what they honestly feel because they thing they are exercising "righteous dominion". Most of them don't even know the definition of unrighteous dominion. Even I, being raised in the church and observing the leadership, fell prey to my own pride and as soon as I was given a little authority as I supposed, I immediately began to exercise unrighteous dominion, and I didn't know it for some time. I took he attitude that, "The lord called me to this position, I act for Him and I should be respected and treated by those under me as if I were the Lord." That's how I felt within myself. I have heard some priesthood leaders express this same feeling saying to those under them, "As far as you are concerned, I am God."41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;
42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
This is unrighteous dominion. To be more specific, maintaining any power or influence by virtue of your priesthood position, (I am the Bishop so I have power and influence), IS unrighteous dominion. The Lord said, "NO power or influence can or OUGHT to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood" and as priesthood positions are part of our priesthood. The only way to avoid exercising unrighteous dominion is to follow the Lord's direction when he tells us that power and influence over other can and ought to be maintained, "ONLY by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; by kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile—
This was taught by John Taylor, the third President of the Church, who reported:
Anything else IS unrighteous dominion. And this is not taught well enough in the church. So we as leaders and members don’t know what unrighteous dominion is, we can’t recognize it easily, and we think it is ok. Many of the most common doctrines and catch phrases that are taught from every level of church leadership teach exactly contrary to the Lord's instruction and teach that we should in fact give power and influence to our leaders by virtue of their priesthood. For example, "Obey your leaders" is a common phrase we hear which with 3 simple words tells us to give significant power and influence to our leaders because they are our leaders and for no other reason. It is essentially telling us that we should "obey your leaders by virtue of their priesthood and position in the priesthood." There is no consideration for what the leader might have commanded you to do, no persuasion on principle or doctrine, just pure power and influence by virtue of their priesthood and position in that priesthood.“Some years ago, in Nauvoo, a gentleman in my hearing, a member of the Legislature, asked Joseph Smith how it was that he was enabled to govern so many people, and to preserve such perfect order; remarking at the same time that it was impossible for them to do it anywhere else. Mr. Smith remarked that it was very easy to do that. ‘How?’ responded the gentleman; ‘to us it is very difficult.’ Mr. Smith replied, ‘I teach them correct principles, and they govern themselves.’”
Another common phrase we hear that supports this false paradigm is, "Follow the prophet". While we may like the sound of this catchy phrase, it also take no consideration as to where we might follow the prophet to, what he might teach or do and it gives power and influence to a man by virtue of his priesthood. Often times these two phrases are used when persuasion has not been used or has failed. anyone who supports these catch phrases does not understand what unrighteous dominion is and will likely tell you that they are dominating righteously. Doctrines like "follow the prophet" and "Obey your leaders" is why "almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion."
So, if 80-90% of all men in leadership positions in the church immediately up being called to positions of authority begin to "persecute the Saints and fight against God", then how can we tell a true servant from a false servant if not by their position or priesthood?
Throughout the scriptures, we learn the obvious truth that if a person is acting under the direction of the Holy Ghost, they are acting for God and if they are not, then they are not. It almost seems silly to have to state it that clearly, but it is important. This means that missionary speaking by the Power of the Holy Ghost has more authority and power from God than does the Prophet and President of the church when he is not speaking by the power of the Holy Ghost.
Speaking of missionaries, the lord says,
In these verses, the lord has told us that missionaries are the servants of the lord and should be obeyed as if the lord were speaking for himself, ONLY when they speak by the power of the Holy Ghost. When they do not, they are speaking for themselves.2 And, behold, and lo, this is an ensample unto all those who were ordained unto this priesthood, whose mission is appointed unto them to go forth—
3 And this is the ensample unto them, that they shall speak as they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost.
4 And whatsoever they shall speak when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
5 Behold, this is the promise of the Lord unto you, O ye my servants. - D&C 68
This is true with all levels of leadership. When they are acting under the direction and influence of the Holy Ghost, then they are the Servants of God. When they do anything that causes "the Spirit of the Lord to be grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man" and they are not acting as servants of God.
Authority comes in and through the Holy Ghost.
While the Lord refutes using our priesthood to dominate others, he tells us both how we should lead and how we should be led.1 Nephi 10:22
22 And the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things, and deny them not.
Because power and influence comes by persuasion and not by priesthood, His servants put their time and attention on their ability to persuade. They work hard to teach correct principles and allow others to govern themselves. They understand the true channel by which God reveals truth, and they use it.
The channel God uses for revealing truth to the world is very specific, and it is not defined by lines of authority. Truth can be revealed from any position up or down or sideways as long as it comes through the channel God established from the beginning. the world. As an example, the doctrine of heavenly mother came through this channel even though it was not revealed by the prophet by by Elisa R. Snow. She didn't reveal it in a church meeting or general conference, but by publishing a poem in the news paper. The poem was a prayer to both heavenly father and heavenly mother and is now found in our hymn book, called "Oh My Father" although it would more correctly be called, "Oh my Father and Mother". Although she was not a prophet and did not hold priesthood power in the church, Elisa R. Snow was acting as a servant of God. This doctrine came not through the lines of the church, but through the channel God ordained for revealing truth. That line is given here:
If we receive/accept or believe truth based on what book it is found in, (its in the scriptures so I accept is as true), or based on who said it or what position said it (the prophet said it so I accept it as truth or it came through the priesthood channel so it is true), then we are not receiving truth the way God intended and so it is not of God, even if it is true, it is not of God because it was not received via the channel God established from before the foundation of the world.17 Verily I say unto you, he that is ordained of me and sent forth to preach the word of truth by the Comforter, in the Spirit of truth, doth he preach it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
18 And if it be by some other way it is not of God.
19 And again, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way?
20 If it be some other way it is not of God. - D&C 50:17-20
This does not mean that we have no need for prophets or scriptures. It means that AS we listen to the prophets and scriptures or even simple talks in church from other members of our ward, we are listening for “the voice of the Lord” which is the Holy Ghost. If someone is speaking to us and we hear the witness of the Holy Ghost, then we receive it as truth from God or in other words, we recognize the servants of God because they speak with "the voice of the Lord". If someone is speaking and we do not hear the witness of the Holy Ghost, then we do not receive it as truth from God and they are not acting as servants of God. This is the process we should follow whether we are listening to a fellow member speaking in Sacrament meeting or commenting in class as well as if we were listening to the Prophet of the Church say, "Thus sayeth the lord..." while addressing the church in general conference.
The Nephi taught,
The Lord clarified this saying,2 Nephi 33:1
1 And now I, Nephi, cannot write all the things which were taught among my people; neither am I mighty in writing, like unto speaking; for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men.
Often the question comes up, “How do we know if someone is speaking by the spirit of truth or the power of the Holy Ghost? President J. Reuben Clark of the First Presidency of the Church addressed this in a talk entitled, “When Are the Writings and Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?” After reading D&C 68:3-5 he said,8 And I give unto you this promise, that inasmuch as ye do this the Holy Ghost shall be shed forth in bearing record unto all things whatsoever ye shall say.
I recommend that you read this entire talk by President Clark. This is what it means to receiveth the word of truth by the spirit of truth. If we receive the word of truth by ANY other means, including by the means of the priesthood line of authority in the church, then we have not received it from God. And as God said, he that receiveth the word of truth, doth he receive it by the Spirit of truth or some other way? If it be some other way it is not of God."The very words of the revelation recognize that the Brethren may speak when they are not “moved upon by the Holy Ghost”; yet only when they do speak as “moved upon” is what they say considered scripture. No exceptions are given to this rule or principle. It is universal in its application. The question is, how shall we kn-ow when the things they have spoken were said as they were “moved upon by the Holy Ghost”? I have given some thought to this question, and the answer thereto, so far as I can determine, is: We can tell when the speakers are “moved upon by the Holy Ghost” only when we, ourselves, are “moved upon by the Holy Ghost.” In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak." - When Are the Writings and Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?, Church News (31 July 1954)
This is true as it relates to anyone who speaks by the spirit, but it is also true as it applies to the listener or receiver who receives by the spirit. So, we can change one word in the verse to discover this other truth:
The scripture says,
D&C 68:4 - And whatsoever they shall receive when moved upon by the Holy Ghost shall be scripture, shall be the will of the Lord, shall be the mind of the Lord, shall be the word of the Lord, shall be the voice of the Lord, and the power of God unto salvation.
It is important to note here that the Holy Ghost IS the voice of the Lord. When the Lord who is the good shepherd calls us, he calls us with His voice which is the Holy Ghost.
66 Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness—in the wilderness, because you cannot see him—my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound. - D&C88:66
His sheep know his voice and come. Those who are not his sheep are not listening and receiving by the spirit of truth but by some other way that is not of God. Because they are receiving in some other way, they are not his sheep.35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, and by my power you can read them one to another; and save it were by my power you could not have them;
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words. - D&C 18:35-36
Again, if we do not receive truth by the spirit of truth, then we receive it another way which is not of God. God may have organized the Church and called people to positions of the Church and conferred priesthood upon them, but while doing all that, he still acknowledges that ALMOST ALL of these men that have been given called, as soon as they are given a little authority, as they suppose, they IMMEDIATELY begin to exercise unrighteous dominion which in turn drives away the spirit and nullifies their priesthood.Mosiah 26:21
21 And he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church, and him will I also receive.
Alma 5:38
38 Behold, I say unto you, that the good shepherd doth call you; yea, and in his own name he doth call you, which is the name of Christ; and if ye will not hearken unto the voice of the good shepherd, to the name by which ye are called, behold, ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd.
And the reason that their priesthood nullified when the spirit is withdrawn is because God's house is a house of order and that order is that for anything to be valid by God, it MUST be sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise or it is of no effect after death. When a priesthood holder loses the spirit by means of unrighteous dominion (or other reasons) they lose the power by which their priesthood has any effect. Without the Holy Ghost, they can't speak for God, their words won't be carried to the hearts of the listeners and they can't bind on earth and in heaven.
The Law is that which is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise.7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.
8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.
9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?
10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?
11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?
12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.
13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.
14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed. - D&C 132
In our law, we have to have our law makers ratify a thing to make it a law that is recognized and effectual. In God's law, it must be ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise to make it recognized by heaven and effectual. Anything that is ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise becomes law and anything not is not. You want your marriage to be sealed for eternity, it must become ratified by the Holy Spirit of promise to be accepted by the law of God. You want to forgive someones sins, it must be ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise to become law recognized by heaven in the eternities. You want the promise of exaltation and the guarantee that you will go to heaven, it must be ratified and signed into law by the Holy Spirit of promise. This is the house of order that God has established. It is the means by which truth is learned by the sheep who know the voice of God. The Holy Ghost IS His voice and the ONLY voice recognized and followed by His sheep.
66 Behold, that which you hear is as the voice of one crying in the wilderness—in the wilderness, because you cannot see him—my voice, because my voice is Spirit; my Spirit is truth; truth abideth and hath no end; and if it be in you it shall abound. - D&C88:66
His sheep know his voice and come. Those who are not his sheep are not listening and receiving by the spirit of truth but by some other way that is not of God. Because they are receiving in some other way, they are not his sheep and do not belong to his church.35 For it is my voice which speaketh them unto you; for they are given by my Spirit unto you, and by my power you can read them one to another; and save it were by my power you could not have them;
36 Wherefore, you can testify that you have heard my voice, and know my words. - D&C 18:35-36
Mosiah 26:21
21 And he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church, and him will I also receive.
28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.
[/quote]Alma 5:38
38 Behold, I say unto you, that the good shepherd doth call you; yea, and in his own name he doth call you, which is the name of Christ; and if ye will not hearken unto the voice of the good shepherd, to the name by which ye are called, behold, ye are not the sheep of the good shepherd.
Who cares who claims to receive revelation for the church. If it is ratified by the Holy Ghost, then it is true regardless of the source and it came through God's servant. Even a woman can speak by the power of the Holy Ghost and thereby act as God's mouth piece to to the ward, the church or the world.
If it is not ratified by the Holy Ghost to you, then it is not of God or at least not from God to you, regardless of the source even if that source is the President of the church. Remember, the lord said, "he that will hear my voice shall be my sheep; and him shall ye receive into the church, and him will I also receive.
28 Therefore I say unto you, that he that will not hear my voice, the same shall ye not receive into my church, for him I will not receive at the last day.
The term, "trust in the arm of flesh" is very specific. Even God and Jesus Christ have flesh. Just like the prophet. We should not put our faith or trust in the arm of flesh, even if that flesh is Jesus Christ or God he Father. We should put our trust in the arm of the spirit which is not flesh. According to D&C 132:7, even God cannot make law or give promises which are considered valid and bound in heaven without the witness of the Holy Spirit of Promise which signs all things into law and makes them valid and eternal. Neither can Jesus Christ or President Monson nor anyone. Without the Holy Spirit of Promise which is a function or attribute of the Holy Ghost, NOTHING is bound on earth nor in heaven and recognized by God, including the words of the prophets to the church given in general Conference.
BUT, anything said by the power of the Holy Ghost is scripture, the word of the lord, the will of the lord, the power of God to salvation, regardless of who is speaking, and what position they hold in or out of the church. As far as i am concerned, the HOLY GHOST IS God, not man. God's servants are only servants when acting under the direction of the Holy Ghost or speaking the words given to them by the holy Ghost.
Anyone who teaches that we should receive truth by any means other than the spirit of truth which is the Holy Ghost, IS in the very act of doing so, leading you astray from God and directing you to a false idol which has no power to save or exalt.
Along with the scriptures sighted, I give my own witness to this truth in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
