Consenting Adults and Judgement

[ajax]

If adults engage in behavior they consent to, so long as it doesn't infringe on anybody outside of the consenting group, by what justification can a third party, the law, God, whatever, come in and say "What you are doing is wrong and you will be punished for it"

[Sirocco]

Like what do you mean? Things like sex before marriage or robbing a 7-11?

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Maybe it isn't so much the punishment as the ramifications of the physiological changes, addictions, passions and appetites of the weak carnal natural man. Life is to become unlike the carnal beast of the fields (a potential symbolic form of the "mark of the beast" if you think about it) - beasts or intelligences that mate, eat, sleep, fight (war), mate again and die. Even beasts sometimes do better than intelligent man when it comes to adult consent.

Weakness will be weakness until one lets the Savior make weakness strength. So if "consenting adults" enjoy what they consent to do then they may just indulge in the carnal natural man which is an enemy unto God, and therefor they are indeed infringing upon God's desires for all HIs children to be like him and have what he has, and are better off not to feed the carnal natural man, as one will be apt to fall faster from grace, virtue, and eternal felicity by feeding the carnal natural man than one would by starving it (consenting adult activity is feeding it needless to point out). Indulge the carnal natural man, you numb yourself to the words of the spirit, they are life - carnality is death.

So maybe it boils down to the agency of the individuals and the power of virtue flowing through individuals or groups vs the power of indulgence and carnality flowing through individuals or groups.

So on the same vein of the OP, but on the flip side, if adults become virtuous and holy, then consenting adults will have perfect knowledge in the hereafter to share in things, sacred things (nothing to do with sexuality or polygamy as we mortals understand either of them) that are more powerful and holy and desirous than anything we consider pleasurable here in this life, stuck in this mortal, carnal, tabernacle - after all - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. - Jesus Christ

God doesn't punish the consenting adults (who would be the third party in the observations above) he just warns them that the ways of the carnal man are not his ways - the consenting adults punish themselves for they are made of intelligence and light - and one's own conscience and intelligence will shrink before the greater more desirable intelligence (God) thus punishing him or herself away from greater light, love, intelligence - becoming themselves enemies to God by their own choices.

[ajax]

Like what do you mean? Things like sex before marriage or robbing a 7-11?

Sex before marriage? Maybe
Robbing a 7-11? No, the one being robbed is not giving consent.

Sex withing marriage, homosexual behavior (geesh, it's all about sex isn't it), smoking doobie's, or whatever else we like to peep into others lives about. I personally feel it's wrong for me to be peeking in and others who are engaging in peaceful consensual activity. Why then is it ok for a judge, or God to peek in and pass judgement on them?

[jbalm]

Because the children.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

God doesn't peek or pass judgement. Light tattle tells on all of us, and if you happen to be God, and all light is discernable - such that all light flows unto you (hence maybe why I believe the "black hole" is simply God's curtain veiling the everlasting burnings of his Kingdoms within it), even the light bouncing off our thoughts and intelligence particles, then the light is telling on you, and God therefor warns us why we are his enemies unless we yield to light (which is spirit and truth) - otherwise there is no existence or point to creation and the eternal synonym for "consenting adults" is something like "laws unto themselves", "destroyers", as all evidence points to the results of the carnal natural man wanting more than what he or she has, until more is sought, and who knows but there have been eternal wars over this very debate, who knows but the war in heaven had these weighty discussions of agency of consenting intelligences.

Also, if nothing is sacred, then nothing matters and we should cease to exist - which is why I believe we will never meet (not so much know of but actually meet and be held and embraced by) our heavenly mother unless we become as God - for if she isn't sacred and the powers within the eternal relationship of positive and negative energy (male and female) then what is sacred, and what is the purpose of any law or existence other than to be eternal consenting adults - it just doesn't work or add up -

[ajax]

Maybe it isn't so much the punishment as the ramifications of the physiological changes, addictions, passions and appetites of the weak carnal natural man. Life is to become unlike the carnal beast of the fields (a form of the "mark of the beast") who mate, eat, sleep, fight (war), mate again and die. Even beasts sometimes do better than intelligent man when it comes to adult consent.

Weakness will be weakness until one lets the Savior make weakness strength. So if "consenting adults" enjoy what they consent to do then they may just indulge in the carnal natural man which is an enemy unto God, and are therefor are indeed infringing God's desires for all HIs children to be like him and have what he has, and are better off not to feed the carnal natural man, as you will be apt to fall faster in grace, virtue, and eternal felicity by feeding the carnal natural man than you would by starving it. Indulge the carnal natural man, you numb yourself to the words of the spirit, they are life - carnality is death.

So maybe it boils down to the agency of the individuals and the power of virtue flowing through individuals or groups vs the power of indulgence and carnality flowing through individuals or groups.

So on the same vein of the OP, but on the flip side, if adults become virtuous and holy, then consenting adults will have perfect knowledge in the hereafter to share in things, sacred things (nothing to do with sexuality or polygamy as we mortals understand either of them) that are more powerful and holy and desirous than anything we consider pleasurable here in this life, stuck in this mortal, carnal, tabernacle - after all - It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

God doesn't punish the consenting adults (who would be the third party in the observations above) he just warns them that the ways of the carnal man are not his ways - the consenting adults punish themselves for they are made of intelligence and light - and one's own conscience and intelligence will shrink before the greater more desirable intelligence (God) thus punishing him or herself away from greater light, love, intelligence - becoming themselves enemies to God by their own choices.

Ok, thanks for those thoughts Balaam (And +1 that you were able to keep it to a few short paragraphs - ;) ) Really makes me think that these consensual "sins" are much lower on the totem pole than actions people take against each other that actually cause harm to another. Yet, we seem to be obsessed with the opposite.

[BrotherOfMahonri]

Ok, thanks for those thoughts Balaam (And +1 that you were able to keep it to a few short paragraphs - ;) ) Really makes me think that these consensual "sins" are much lower on the totem pole than actions people take against each other that actually cause harm to another. Yet, we seem to be obsessed with the opposite.

Curios - what is the word or words that describe the gift you have been given to say so much in so little, and is it also a gift and what is the word or words to describe such to be able to expound as Alma, Abinadi, and Amulek do in their more lengthy sermons?

[ajax]

Ok, thanks for those thoughts Balaam (And +1 that you were able to keep it to a few short paragraphs - ;) ) Really makes me think that these consensual "sins" are much lower on the totem pole than actions people take against each other that actually cause harm to another. Yet, we seem to be obsessed with the opposite.

Curios - what is the word or words that describe the gift you have been given to say so much in so little, Laziness. When a person has always been lazy, they pretty much get knack a making the best of it. After 4 sentences, my mind pretty much wanders off to food, sex, sports or rock n roll, so I got to get my point off early. and is it also a gift and what is the word or words to describe such to be able to expound as Alma, Abinadi, and Amulek do in their more lengthy sermons? Presumptuousness? idk, never been there.

[Phoenixstar117]

This is something that has been on my mind lately as well. Thank you for asking ajax and BalaamDoctrineLDS for that answer. It was quite eloquent.

[log]

If adults engage in behavior they consent to, so long as it doesn't infringe on anybody outside of the consenting group, by what justification can a third party, the law, God, whatever, come in and say "What you are doing is wrong and you will be punished for it"

The justification by which a third party, such as the law, or God, comes in and says you're doing wrong for porking your neighbor's wife is "consent." When you voluntarily consented to the covenant of obedience with God, which your baptism was, in theory, supposed to be a witness before God, angels, and the world, that you had done, you agreed to his conditions - that if you violated your covenant, he would make the truth about you known, and let your enemies have power over you.

[ajax]

Thank you for asking ajax and BalaamDoctrineLDS for that answer. It was quite eloquent.

My question or his answer? Haha, just kidding. I liked his answer too.

[ajax]

If adults engage in behavior they consent to, so long as it doesn't infringe on anybody outside of the consenting group, by what justification can a third party, the law, God, whatever, come in and say "What you are doing is wrong and you will be punished for it"

The justification by which a third party, such as the law, or God, comes in and says you're doing wrong for porking your neighbor's wife is "consent." When you voluntarily consented to the covenant of obedience with God, which your baptism was, in theory, supposed to be a witness before God, angels, and the world, that you had done, you agreed to his conditions - that if you violated your covenant, he would make the truth about you known, and let your enemies have power over you.

Porking? Can we please keep it clean here? Mods? %-(

If you are porking having sexual relations with your neighbors wife, is this with or without the consent of your neighbor's husband? If without, then it's not really the consent I'm talking about. If with, then...

I said nothing of baptism. But even with baptism, which is a promise to follow Jesus, can you show me where he talked about proper marital relations inside the bedroom? Or homosexual relations among friends? If someone comes along to dictate such behavior, is the only proper response to punch them in the nose?...no never mind, the law, the law.

[log]

Ajax,

People talk about "justifications" as though there were some absolute morality against which things should be compared, and if they compare this or that way against this absolute, then stuff is "justified" or "unjustified."

When, therefore, you use the word "justified," what is the ethical framework that underlies your conception of morality? What "justifies" anything, to you? When is something "unjustified?"

Whatever your answer is, you aren't wrong - that's your values and how you feel about stuff, given your goals; and who can or should tell you what your goals are?

[log]

God might label this or that goal "evil" or "wicked," but that's how God feels about things; it's not like you have to want to live with him or anything. You get to pick your society, in the end.

[log]

And that, in the end, is the only judgement that matters - who it is you want to hang around. If y'all like threesomes and swinging, open marriages and the like, you can choose to go with the society that does exactly that.

That's your judgement and your agency.

[Obrien]

Ajax, now you know what it feels like to have a log fall on you.

[Phoenixstar117]

Ajax, now you know what it feels like to have a log fall on you.

I myself feel like I bumped my head.

[Sirocco]

If adults engage in behavior they consent to, so long as it doesn't infringe on anybody outside of the consenting group, by what justification can a third party, the law, God, whatever, come in and say "What you are doing is wrong and you will be punished for it"

The justification by which a third party, such as the law, or God, comes in and says you're doing wrong for porking your neighbor's wife is "consent." When you voluntarily consented to the covenant of obedience with God, which your baptism was, in theory, supposed to be a witness before God, angels, and the world, that you had done, you agreed to his conditions - that if you violated your covenant, he would make the truth about you known, and let your enemies have power over you.

And if you never did all that?
What was the real hurt in me drinking that vodka or having those relations or playing Magic the Gathering on Sunday.
I never promised God or anyone I wouldn't do that.
But to some people, that's some bad stuff...
To me, it was Sunday...

[log]

And if you never did all that?
What was the real hurt in me drinking that vodka or having those relations or playing Magic the Gathering on Sunday.
I never promised God or anyone I wouldn't do that.
But to some people, that's some bad stuff...
To me, it was Sunday...

As the wise woman said, "If it makes you happy it can't be that bad. If it makes you happy, then why the hell are you so sad?"

But that would only matter if being happy is your goal. I'm sure whatever your goals are, you're acting to accomplish them, so go to it; I'm not the judge of you.

[Robert Sinclair]

The recompense of rectitude is what it is, as it is with that which is morally corrupt from the mouth of God as he has spoken to that which is corrupt. ♡ ♡

[Sirocco]

And if you never did all that?
What was the real hurt in me drinking that vodka or having those relations or playing Magic the Gathering on Sunday.
I never promised God or anyone I wouldn't do that.
But to some people, that's some bad stuff...
To me, it was Sunday...

As the wise woman said, "If it makes you happy it can't be that bad. If it makes you happy, then why the hell are you so sad?"

But that would only matter if being happy is your goal. I'm sure whatever your goals are, you're acting to accomplish them, so go to it; I'm not the judge of you.

Just an example, I really don't like alcohol :))

[shadow]

No unclean thing can enter Gods presence. Anything we have done to defile ourselves always creates a separation from God. Even if no one saw it. God is always in the equation so His consenting is required.

[jsk]

Ajax...What you are advocating seems to be anarchy.

There is practically no such thing as a crime without a victim.

For instance....sex outside marriage frustrates the Plan of Salvation by condemning innocent children that may be conceived to life without parents bound by marriage. This kind of activity diminishes societal support for marriage, which again makes victims of children generally. It also diminishes a person's individual spirituality, which is a self inflicted wound.

Ask any family that has a drug addict for a parent or a child or a sibling if they feel at all victimized...ask me how I know.

This idea that people should "do as they will" or "do it because it feels good" is ruining this country. I often wonder how much longer God will tolerate it...but I'm afraid we have a long way to fall yet.

To say that society or God shouldn't care about these kinds of things is ludicrous, in my opinion. But I seem to be in the minority these days.

[ajax]

Ajax...What you are advocating seems to be anarchy.

I'm not advocating anything. Just asking questions. Bouncing around ideas. That's typically how I view a "forum"