The book 'Visions of Glory'

[Valiance]

I was just wondering if anyone here has read the book 'Visions of Glory'? I had the opportunity to recently read most of it and wanted to reiterate a section from the book that applies to all those living in the Salt Lake and Utah valleys. It's basically about a man named Spencer who had a near-death experience (he's LDS by the way) who sat down with the man who wrote the book and gave something like over 150 hours of interviews for the book and the things Spencer saw and experienced. One of the things he talks about in the book is a scene he was allowed to view of himself in the last days as a church office building worker as a massive earthquake strikes Utah and Salt Lake counties. I wanted to describe the events he saw and experienced because it is reminiscent of the visions we have heard about that a few of our former prophets have had where they talk about plagues, devastation and natural disasters hitting Utah and beginning in Utah and then going forth throughout the world as a cleansing process since the Lord has said in scripture that it will begin within his own house first. He starts out by talking about walking to his car in a parking garage in downtown SLC with briefcase in hand when right before he opens the door to get in, a massive earthquake begins to shake the city.

He falls down several times on his way out of the parking garage and manages to get up with a clear look at everything and as the city is shaking, suddenly, massive geysers of water begin shooting up out of large cracks in the streets everywhere which in a short period of time cause a massive flood and even wave or wall of water to envelop the city. He remarks how clear and clean this water is and was dumbfounded as to where it was all coming from. He says geysers were everywhere shooting 20-30 feet into the sky and mentions how the incline of the city east of downtown causes almost a tidal wave to sweep into downtown going west where he is ultimately swept away and ends up clinging on to some debris for safety and ends up being rescued by someone pulling him to the top steps of the old Union Pacific railroad station next to the Utah Jazz basketball arena. He describes only having his white shirt and tie on and underwear/bottom garment remaining on his body when rescued from the flood. He talks about how the water was high enough to inundate several buildings with only the higher ones remaining standing (if they survived the quake). One church structure is completely destroyed (the old tabernacle) and he says the conference center sustains damage from the flood waters and quake. He doesn't mention anything though about the City Creek area, the COB or SL Temple.

After a while, he describes assistance coming into the area but soon realizes that foreign troops have arrived and initially help with food, water and supplies, but that their long-term goals are sinister. He ultimately gives the source of the water for all of the flooding and says it came from a HUGE underground lake under Utah and Salt Lake county. He eventually attempts to make it to his home in the Sandy area where he finds all the homes pretty much destroyed and gone, including his own and ends up on a convoy of some sorts trying to make it south into Utah County where they are stropped dead in their tracks by a massive hole miles wide that had opened up just south of the point of the mountain where the underground lake was now visible and separating north from south. There really wasn't much more to the description than that. He did say he kept trying to find out what the date was on a calendar somewhere, but was unable to and not permitted, although, he did say that all he could reiterate was that there were a few models of automobiles he did not recognize. Anyway... thought maybe this might be interesting for those living in the Utah and SL county area as a portend to what may be coming. Spencer never really gets into what the new landscape looked like and never says anything about what happened to Utah County except for that a massive flood had hit the Provo area because of dam failures in the Heber City area. I believe Sarah Menet also describes similar events occurring in Utah, especially the quake and flood.

[log]

I have a generalized approach to books like this.

Moroni 7
16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in Christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ; wherefore ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of God.

17 But whatsoever thing persuadeth men to do evil, and believe not in Christ, and deny him, and serve not God, then ye may know with a perfect knowledge it is of the devil; for after this manner doth the devil work, for he persuadeth no man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels; neither do they who subject themselves unto him.

Of course, this is the two extremes. There is at least one more category, because some things neither invite to do good, nor persuade to believe in Christ, nor the opposite of these. Those are the things which be of men.

Unfortunately, I did not see anything in the book which taught how to come unto Christ, neither therefore did it invite to do good (Moroni 10:25), neither did it teach the right way (2 Nephi 25:29).

Neither did it persuade men to do evil and believe not in Christ, neither deny him and serve not God.

I was impressed by certain aspects of this book. It would take a person who was well-versed much that has been written on the apocryphal accounts of visions of the last days, from the days of Joseph on upwards, to craft this tale. Yet I wondered why, (to take one detail as an example) the returning Savior would be dressed as in that painting commonly found in church foyers, with a white robe and red sash, rather than garbed completely in red (D&C 133:46, 51).

This book seemed to me to be, for the most part, spiritual voyeurism; even if the account were true, it brings none to Christ, but rather seems calculated to appeal to our hunger for the visions and blessings of old to return, and angels descending upon the earth; it seems less a testament to what it portrays, and more a sign of our spiritual starvation.

Your mileage may vary.

[davedan]

There are some issues with "Visons of Glory":

1. When Christ returns in glory, he will be wearing red and not white.
2. After nuclear attack, finding clean water will be a problem
3. After nuclear attack, there will be nuclear winter and not warming
4. the book seems to minimize the importance fo the body (out of body experiences and astro-projection) and doesn't discuss the resurrection.
5. Having spoken with the contractors familiar with the Conference Center construction, the Conference Center is built to withstand a severe EQ and not fall down, but that doesn't mean it would still be safe to use again. If there were an EQ like in the book, General Conference could be moved to the sister Conference Center in Rexburg, ID at BYU Idaho campus.
6. The medical details in the book are not believable.

[MelissaM]

ISpencer never really gets into what the new landscape looked like and never says anything about what happened to Utah County except for that a massive flood had hit the Provo area because of dam failures in the Heber City area. I believe Sarah Menet also describes similar events occurring in Utah, especially the quake and flood.

Interesting. I have not read the book-picking it up from my mother on Thanksgiving.

I used to work for the Utah County Health Department. The possibility of Deer Creek and further up dams breaking in the event of earthquake is very real. We used to discuss the reality of having downtown Provo under 30 feet of water in our emergency planning meetings.

[livy111us]

Visions of Glory has many problems contained in its pages. Here is a very telling review of the book that I'd recommend reading

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/ ... s-of-glory" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Visions of Glory’s portrayal of Jesus Christ and His method of interacting with the Saints is not consistent with scripture.
Visions of Glory teaches doctrines that contradict LDS scripture and prophets.
Prophets and apostles have repeatedly taught that it is inappropriate for members to publicize such material without permission from the President of the Church.
Spencer claims he will receive authority independent of the Church and its leaders.
Anonymous accounts cannot be verified.

[lemuel]

If you read it as a novel, it's a fun read. If you take it as a vision, well, with the detail given in the book, if it were true, it would be cooler than any revelation we have in the scriptures, which makes me doubt its veracity. But I had a good time reading it.

[durangout]

There are MANY problems with this book--too many to mention in fact. Bottom line: It is bad LDS fiction. Don't be deceived.

[TZONE]

Its an amazing book. i loved that part of the book. Its full of lessons we can learn and apply to ourself. The more I ponder on it the more the lord has used it to teach me how to be more like our savior.

There is an extensive thread here too,

viewtopic.php?t=26311" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SamFisher]

(To you who think Christ is coming in red in his glory, think again. That's a reference to his appearance to the Jews, not to the world.) Christ will make multiple appearances.

I think Spencer's visions are legit. He is saying what the GAs can't, and the Lord intended for him to publish the book. It's not prophesy for the church or is intended to be. It's there to warn people individually what's coming and to help us look forward to the calamity and survive it.

[log]

(To you who think Christ is coming in red in his glory, think again. That's a reference to his appearance to the Jews, not to the world.)

3 Nephi 12:22
22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of his judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And

D&C 133
42 O Lord, thou shalt come down to make thy name known to thine adversaries, and all nations shall tremble at thy presence—

43 When thou doest terrible things, things they look not for;

44 Yea, when thou comest down, and the mountains flow down at thy presence, thou shalt meet him who rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, who remembereth thee in thy ways.

45 For since the beginning of the world have not men heard nor perceived by the ear, neither hath any eye seen, O God, besides thee, how great things thou hast prepared for him that waiteth for thee.

46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?

47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.

48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.

49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.

50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me;

51 And I have trampled them in my fury, and I did tread upon them in mine anger, and their blood have I sprinkled upon my garments, and stained all my raiment; for this was the day of vengeance which was in my heart.

52 And now the year of my redeemed is come; and they shall mention the loving kindness of their Lord, and all that he has bestowed upon them according to his goodness, and according to his loving kindness, forever and ever.

And, again.

Isaiah 40:5
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

And, again.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:23
23 And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the covering of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together.

And

as·i·nine
adjective
1.
extremely stupid or foolish.
"Lydia ignored his asinine remark"
synonyms: stupid, foolish, brainless, mindless, senseless, idiotic, imbecilic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, nonsensical, fatuous, silly, inane, witless, empty-headed; More

Or

as·i·nine (s-nn)
adj.
1. Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
2. Of, relating to, or resembling an @#$.

So, applying Moroni 7 is asinine. Ok, bro. Ok.

[lemuel]

I have a confession for the LDSFF crowd: I watch and love "The Daily Show w/ Jon Stewart". One of my favorite things on it is where they show some soundbite from a politician, and then show a contradicting quote from the same politician from a few months earlier.

Log, you are Jon Stewart here. You've always got the scripture to refute any comment. You totally crack me up.

Raca on bro.

[notjamesbond003.5]

I was just wondering if anyone here has read the book 'Visions of Glory'? I had the opportunity to recently read most of it and wanted to reiterate a section from the book that applies to all those living in the Salt Lake and Utah valleys. It's basically about a man named Spencer who had a near-death experience (he's LDS by the way) who sat down with the man who wrote the book and gave something like over 150 hours of interviews for the book and the things Spencer saw and experienced. One of the things he talks about in the book is a scene he was allowed to view of himself in the last days as a church office building worker as a massive earthquake strikes Utah and Salt Lake counties. I wanted to describe the events he saw and experienced because it is reminiscent of the visions we have heard about that a few of our former prophets have had where they talk about plagues, devastation and natural disasters hitting Utah and beginning in Utah and then going forth throughout the world as a cleansing process since the Lord has said in scripture that it will begin within his own house first. He starts out by talking about walking to his car in a parking garage in downtown SLC with briefcase in hand when right before he opens the door to get in, a massive earthquake begins to shake the city.

He falls down several times on his way out of the parking garage and manages to get up with a clear look at everything and as the city is shaking, suddenly, massive geysers of water begin shooting up out of large cracks in the streets everywhere which in a short period of time cause a massive flood and even wave or wall of water to envelop the city. He remarks how clear and clean this water is and was dumbfounded as to where it was all coming from. He says geysers were everywhere shooting 20-30 feet into the sky and mentions how the incline of the city east of downtown causes almost a tidal wave to sweep into downtown going west where he is ultimately swept away and ends up clinging on to some debris for safety and ends up being rescued by someone pulling him to the top steps of the old Union Pacific railroad station next to the Utah Jazz basketball arena. He describes only having his white shirt and tie on and underwear/bottom garment remaining on his body when rescued from the flood. He talks about how the water was high enough to inundate several buildings with only the higher ones remaining standing (if they survived the quake). One church structure is completely destroyed (the old tabernacle) and he says the conference center sustains damage from the flood waters and quake. He doesn't mention anything though about the City Creek area, the COB or SL Temple.

After a while, he describes assistance coming into the area but soon realizes that foreign troops have arrived and initially help with food, water and supplies, but that their long-term goals are sinister. He ultimately gives the source of the water for all of the flooding and says it came from a HUGE underground lake under Utah and Salt Lake county. He eventually attempts to make it to his home in the Sandy area where he finds all the homes pretty much destroyed and gone, including his own and ends up on a convoy of some sorts trying to make it south into Utah County where they are stropped dead in their tracks by a massive hole miles wide that had opened up just south of the point of the mountain where the underground lake was now visible and separating north from south. There really wasn't much more to the description than that. He did say he kept trying to find out what the date was on a calendar somewhere, but was unable to and not permitted, although, he did say that all he could reiterate was that there were a few models of automobiles he did not recognize. Anyway... thought maybe this might be interesting for those living in the Utah and SL county area as a portend to what may be coming. Spencer never really gets into what the new landscape looked like and never says anything about what happened to Utah County except for that a massive flood had hit the Provo area because of dam failures in the Heber City area. I believe Sarah Menet also describes similar events occurring in Utah, especially the quake and flood.

Valiance-

I loved the book, every part of it.

njb

[LDSguy]

I enjoyed reading it, and I don't like to read. Clearly there are parts of it that are not doctrinally sound. Whether or not it was written as fiction or these experiences really did happen to "Spencer" I don't care. What I took away from it was the determination to live a better life, to be a better person, to be a better friend. In that case, the book was wonderful!

[aigerim]

Valiance:

It's a great book! I loved it, too.

As with all things, if VoG has meaning for you, take it and run.

Don't worry about what others think. They will try to make you feel the fool for finding worth in this book. Ignore them.

There are lots of inspiring thoughts to take away from VoG and apply in your life. That's a good thing!

[Lance]

-

[LDSguy]

Valiance:

It's a great book! I loved it, too.

As with all things, if VoG has meaning for you, take it and run.

Don't worry about what others think. They will try to make you feel the fool for finding worth in this book. Ignore them.

There are lots of inspiring thoughts to take away from VoG and apply in your life. That's a good thing!

Valiance,
I loved the book as well, and have read it twice. I respect Log's earlier post that parts of the book felt like "spiritual voyeurism," but, in my view, the book does encourage people to come unto Christ by urging the need for our own spiritual preparation which is needed in light of the terrible calamities and difficulties that await everyone. The saints will not be spared these trials. The book is a great wake up call. Personally, I am stunned that Deseret Book is stocking it, but I am glad it is so that others can wake up out of the "All is well" mentality.
Yes, I believe portions of Spencer's visions are highly symbolic rather than literal, such as his vision of the pre-existence. I frankly don't know what to make of his visionary account where he travels north to the Cave. However, other portions of his visions I feel are literal such are the future destructions he viewed in Salt Lake County.
For what it's worth, if you haven't already, check out Bro. Pontius' first book, Following the Light of Christ into His Presence. That book's whole point is to get others to connect directly with the Savior.

-Lan

:ymapplause: :ymapplause:

[SamFisher]

(To you who think Christ is coming in red in his glory, think again. That's a reference to his appearance to the Jews, not to the world.)

3 Nephi 12:22
22 But I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother shall be in danger of his judgment. And whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

And

D&C 133
42 O Lord, thou shalt come down to make thy name known to thine adversaries, and all nations shall tremble at thy presence—

43 When thou doest terrible things, things they look not for;

44 Yea, when thou comest down, and the mountains flow down at thy presence, thou shalt meet him who rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, who remembereth thee in thy ways.

45 For since the beginning of the world have not men heard nor perceived by the ear, neither hath any eye seen, O God, besides thee, how great things thou hast prepared for him that waiteth for thee.

46 And it shall be said: Who is this that cometh down from God in heaven with dyed garments; yea, from the regions which are not known, clothed in his glorious apparel, traveling in the greatness of his strength?

47 And he shall say: I am he who spake in righteousness, mighty to save.

48 And the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat.

49 And so great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame, and the moon shall withhold its light, and the stars shall be hurled from their places.

50 And his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me;

51 And I have trampled them in my fury, and I did tread upon them in mine anger, and their blood have I sprinkled upon my garments, and stained all my raiment; for this was the day of vengeance which was in my heart.

52 And now the year of my redeemed is come; and they shall mention the loving kindness of their Lord, and all that he has bestowed upon them according to his goodness, and according to his loving kindness, forever and ever.

And, again.

Isaiah 40:5
5 And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

And, again.

Doctrine and Covenants 101:23
23 And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the covering of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together.

And

as·i·nine
adjective
1.
extremely stupid or foolish.
"Lydia ignored his asinine remark"
synonyms: stupid, foolish, brainless, mindless, senseless, idiotic, imbecilic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, nonsensical, fatuous, silly, inane, witless, empty-headed; More

Or

as·i·nine (s-nn)
adj.
1. Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
2. Of, relating to, or resembling an @#$.

So, applying Moroni 7 is asinine. Ok, bro. Ok.

Log, you're doing a lot of work trying to prove something you cannot prove--your interpretation and assumption. Nowhere do the scriptures state that the Lord comes only one time and only wears red all the time. That's a box you're putting yourself in.

[log]

Log, you're doing a lot of work trying to prove something you cannot prove--your interpretation and assumption. Nowhere do the scriptures state that the Lord comes only one time and only wears red all the time. That's a box you're putting yourself in.

I think others will see the cited scripture for what it says.

I'm curious, though - why the defensiveness that someone else might think the book was crap? What possible harm does anyone else's opinion of the book do you? Why would you call me asinine and foolish?

[SamFisher]

I'm not calling you asinine and foolish necessarily. I'm describing your behavior. Every argument I've read against VoG has been an asinine one. And to dismiss the book is foolish--considering what's at stake and what's about to slam us if the Spencer's account is true.

The scriptures exist to teach us how to behave so that we can return to God. They are all but useless as a description of what life will actually be like during these calamities, and as a reference as to when the calamities are coming, and the conditions we will face as a modern society. Furthermore, there is nothing in VoG that goes against doctrine. It expands it in new ways--ways I've always presumed were true. I've suspected for twenty years that the lost 10 tribes (or a portion of them) were underground, to name one example. VoG supports that. The list goes on and on.

So to suggest VoG is fiction because the Lord wears red when he returns is...well, nuts to me. Are the scriptures really that clear on when exactly he'll be wearing red, and where? Is it symbolism?

We're told that men will see visions in the last days, so I'm not about to dismiss one from a man who comes off as the genuine article to me. If you're waiting around for the Brethren to let you know when a quake is coming, you'll never hear it. They can't say things like that, or a panic would ensue and the inhabitants of the valley would all clear out.

[log]

[T]o dismiss the book is foolish--considering what's at stake and what's about to slam us if the Spencer's account is true.

I'm going to put this as bluntly as I know how.

VoG does not call men to repentance. VoG does not instruct men in repentance. VoG does not instruct men on how to call upon the name of the Lord. VoG does not instruct men in how to obtain the Holy Ghost. VoG contains no specific, actionable instruction at all that would prepare men for the days ahead, really, as far as I can recall. No amount of food storage or flood insurance is going to preserve the unholy in the day of their visitation. I believe a message from God to us would include specific, actionable directions whereby men may preserve themselves against the day that is coming.

So to suggest VoG is fiction because the Lord wears red when he returns is...well, nuts to me.

I never said VoG is fiction for any reason at all.

Are the scriptures really that clear on when exactly he'll be wearing red, and where? Is it symbolism?

I'd say yes, actually, and the scriptures are crystal clear at that. I quoted it. Now, it raises another issue - would someone so carefully craft this tale, with tons of apocryphal details from visions or revelations of the last days from so many sources from the past from the days of Brigham onwards from the JoD and other sources and diverge from the scriptural description of the Savior's apparel at his coming? What would account for that?

[SamFisher]

VoG does not purport to be scripture. Nobody is replacing scripture with that book. Nobody is calling Spencer a prophet. Nobody is leaving the church because of it--in fact, it's preparing people. Cults are not forming around the book. It does not claim to be revelation for the church.

It merely gives insights into a mortal man's experience with NDE and the spirit world, how those spirits interact with us, and it goes into calamities. I think what happened to Spencer makes people evaluate their lives and strive to live more spiritually, to repent, and to get ready. If the book doesn't do anything for you, don't read it. But nobody can claim it's false with any credibility, unless you've walked in Spencer's shoes.

[notjamesbond003.5]

[T]o dismiss the book is foolish--considering what's at stake and what's about to slam us if the Spencer's account is true.

VoG does not call men to repentance. VoG does not instruct men in repentance..

So to suggest VoG is fiction because the Lord wears red when he returns is...well, nuts to me.

Are the scriptures really that clear on when exactly he'll be wearing red, and where? Is it symbolism?

I'd say yes, actually, and the scriptures are crystal clear at that. I quoted it. Now, it raises another issue - would someone so carefully craft this tale, with tons of apocryphal details from visions or revelations of the last days from so many sources from the past from the days of Brigham onwards from the JoD and other sources and diverge from the scriptural description of the Savior's apparel at his coming? What would account for that?

VofG does call one to repentance, indirectly. Review the Priesthood Holder watching pornography etc.
There is more of a tone of Love coming from it pages, than Snuffer's writings.

I've heard often that Christ appearing in glory that the red robe-could only be symbolic: by the Brethren *ahem.

VofG matches straight up w John Taylor's Vision.

njb

[log]

VofG does call one to repentance, indirectly. Review the Priesthood Holder watching pornography etc.

We'll have to agree to disagree whether that is, by any definition, calling anyone to repentance; portraying a sin(ner), to me, doesn't qualify as a call to repentance.

VofG matches straight up w John Taylor's Vision.

Was it John Taylor, or Wilford Woodruff, in whose journal it was found, or someone else? Nobody seems to know whose vision that was, if anyone's. But yes, as I mentioned, VoG has many details from these apocryphal "visions", helpfully included in the book's appendix.

[SamFisher]

Log,

So you have to be explicitly told to repent, rather than having it shown to you by someone else's life experience? Do you apply that line of thinking to everything? Does your boss get frustrated by you at work?

Sometimes showing is as good or better than telling. It's a tenet of persuasive writing and learning. The scriptures call them parables.

[inquirringmind]

I'd say yes, actually, and the scriptures are crystal clear at that. I quoted it. Now, it raises another issue - would someone so carefully craft this tale, with tons of apocryphal details from visions or revelations of the last days from so many sources from the past from the days of Brigham onwards from the JoD and other sources and diverge from the scriptural description of the Savior's apparel at his coming? What would account for that?

What could account for that?