RM's not marrying and falling away.

[Darren]

A big issue in the church is the low retention rate of young single adults, particularly males. It has been suggested that active young single adult females in the church outnumber active young single adult males in the church somewhere in the range of 2/1. Also statistics from a study at BYU show that temple marriage is happening later in life or not happening at all for many active single adult LDS who end up never marrying or become divorced after a short marriage sighting dissatisfaction in marriage.

How are we failing the young adults in the Church, and what changes will reverse this tide?

In Joseph Smith, Jr.'s day, the young men began their careers in life at a very early age (apprenticeships and farming occupations began around 14-16 years old) and a side benefit usually meant that marriages and children were well underway for these young adults easily into the early 20's ages of these young adults lives.

Fast forward to today and the first opportunity to become active in a chosen career is in the mid 20's after spending many years getting a College Education, with the effect of pushing a willingness to get married into the late 20's and even early 30's ages for these young adults.

In ancient Anglo/Saxon Culture the Guild System meant that meaningful work and career opportunities happened much earlier in life than it does today.

What are we to learn from studying our ancestral culture model for preparing our youth for life's opportunities?

The Greek University System on the other hand pumped out Swinging Bachelors that were instructed to never marry, to instead devote their life to the prosperity of the State. That when they did have illegitimate children, that that was a good thing, as that provided the State with more human resources for it to control.

Where is this all going, and what are our options as a Mormon Culture.

God Bless,
Darren

[Elizabeth]

The 30 year old cut off for singles is a big part of the problem. I know of singles, including returned missionaries, being refused admission and access to singles activities once turning 30. It is ridiculous.

[jo1952]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

D&C 10:67-68

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

[Jeremy]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

I completely agree with each statement. Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "both" and likely so because we are not openly taught the difference. "I know the church is true" is not equal to "I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true".

[Sheol27]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

D&C 10:67-68

67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.

68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

Good points. I will try to answer your questions since not too many years ago my friends were in this situations/ some still are. These are examples from people I know personally and they may or may not represent others at large. Some of my friends question some of the deep doctrines. (Example: Ones that contradict modern science) One friend that has gone this way still believes in God the other does not. Other ways some friends that have struggled as they have grown older single is a battle with premarital sex, porn, etc.

I bet that it is somewhat embarrassing going to church every week and not participating with the sacrament. It's probably one thing if you saw what you did as a mistake and you were fixing it vs you were doing something like being with your girlfriend and were not willing to give it up but yet you weren't fake and weren't willing to fake it at church.

I have very upstanding, honorable, honest, intelligent friends that fall into the category of preparing financially first. If I may speak frankly sex is something hard to give up if your outlook is you aren't able to settle down till you are 35. It takes either a very strong individual, a very unhealthy one (no sex drive), or one that relies on the Lord for strength to grow old and be completely chaste.

I say this without judgement and with love. I love my friends like brothers. Yes, greater faith in the core of the gospel would be the thing to give us strength to endure the trials we face individually each day. I am sorry if I have offended anyone by my comments.

[Sheol27]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

I completely agree with each statement. Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "both" and likely so because we are not openly taught the difference. "I know the church is true" is not equal to "I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true".

Someone please explain what the statement "the church is true" really means? The Church would include what is taught at church right? So if the church teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, couldn't it be considered true as well?

[jo1952]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

I completely agree with each statement. Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "both" and likely so because we are not openly taught the difference. "I know the church is true" is not equal to "I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true".

Indeed! Most believe that the two ARE equal. And certainly we cannot tell exactly why someone leaves the Church unless we personally have been told by them what their reasons are. Also, I would add that even among those who leave the Church with the thought that they are either angry with, or are purposely abandoning God and/or Christ, that some are actually abandoning the ideas they have about God and/or Christ. I would offer that, in fact, they have not really known either God or Christ to begin with. Can they, then, abandon someone they never really knew?

I hear the lament among members as well as those who have left the Church that they feel they have no idea who Christ really is. They are able to rehearse the standard LDS speak; but they feel devoid of a spiritual relationship with their Savior. They have had feelings stirred through shared testimonies--including their own. But they thirst for more; not even knowing what exactly it is that they are thirsting for. They do recognize, though, that there is something missing. I see that this is the result of their efforts to live the law. The law has been serving its purpose----by pointing them to God! Praise God!! They have been preparing for the awakening of their spirit. This transition can be very troublesome---especially because it is difficult to find direction from inside of the Church when this change takes place.

If the valiant HAVE been saved for this day, we are likely to see more and more leaving the Church. Not because they are falling away from God and Christ; but because many have found Christ through their own spirit's awakening. And it is through leaving the Church they are able to further that awakening as is dictated by their own personal relationship with Christ; because the Church is not feeding them the meat which they hunger for. Some of the valiant may not want to stay where they are because it is no longer enough for them. They want to get closer to Father and to the Son; they do not want to be prevented from, or be frowned upon for seeking, further revelation and Truth. Some of the valiant may decide to try to stay and help others who are starting to make the transition of having their spirit awaken....thus trying to fill the void of finding someone inside of the Church who understands and can assist.

[Rand]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

I completely agree with each statement. Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "both" and likely so because we are not openly taught the difference. "I know the church is true" is not equal to "I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true".

Someone please explain what the statement "the church is true" really means? The Church would include what is taught at church right? So if the church teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, couldn't it be considered true as well?

Nice comments Sheol27. Oh, and great fish!

[Sheol27]

When I was a young , less knowledgeable, new missionary years ago when we had a set of discussions. Our 2nd discussion was called "The Gospel of Jesus Christ". That was issued by the church. That discussion manual discussed Faith in Christ, Repentance, Baptism by Immersion, and the Gift of the Holy Ghost, which gift will teach us all things. In our articles of Faith it is also taught that the first principles and ordinances of the gospel are.... the same. Jesus said in the Book of Mormon which according to Moroni contains the Fulness of the Gospel that His gospel was , Repentance, Baptism and Holy Ghost. I argue that Faith was left out because He (Jesus) was personally there and there was no need for it since they had a knowledge.

I believe these to be true principles even if there are exceptions for people whom may not need baptism. These are issued by the church thus IMO making it true. Of course there can be rogue sections/ wards that change the focus, or even missionaries that don't understand or change the doctrine. The church contains imperfect men including its leaders so you can say in that regard that its not perfect. (They even taught that last General Conference) but all in all if the Gospel is what they publish to be taught I feel comfortable in saying that it is true. Although overall I do agree with Jeremy that that the Gospel and the Church aren't one in the same.

[jo1952]

Are our young people abandoning Christ? Or are they merely abandoning the Church's Mormon culture?

As a Mormon culture we need to back off. Our rules and our judgments are suffocating us and our own individuation. Our young are not the only ones leaving the Church, aka Mormon culture (NOT to be confused with leaving Father or our Savior).

Those who leave Mormon culture/the Church will always be able to pursue their own personal relationship with Christ and can be His church wherever they are.

I completely agree with each statement. Unfortunately I think the answer to your question is "both" and likely so because we are not openly taught the difference. "I know the church is true" is not equal to "I know the gospel of Jesus Christ is true".

Someone please explain what the statement "the church is true" really means? The Church would include what is taught at church right? So if the church teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ, couldn't it be considered true as well?

This a good question! Generally what members of the Church mean when they say that they know the Church is true, is that they believe the LDS Church is the only true church on the face of the earth. However, since all it takes to be a member of Christ's church is to repent and come to Christ, individuals and groups of individuals all over the earth are members of His "true" church. They do not need to also be a member of any specific organized institute of religion. Gosh, in the Book of Revelation, the Lord pointed to seven different churches which John was familiar with. The people in all of those churches were members of Christ's church; though He was not well pleased with most of them, as indicated by the contents of the letters to those churches. I think He was most pleased with the church of Philadelphia.

At one point, the Lord was well pleased with the group of believers making up the church which Joseph Smith had established, as reported in D&C 1:

30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

At that time, the church was called the Church of Christ. The same commandments given to that church have remained with many different off-shoots of that original church....all making the same claims.

[ebenezerarise]

There are some good responses in this thread but I think we're failing to get to the heart of the problem. You're all talking like young men in the Church, even RMs, are adults. They are far from it.

Never was there a time with more missionaries coming home because they just couldn't hack it, were not prepared or just didn't want to be there. Never was there a time with so many missionaries on meds for everything from depression to ADHD. Never was there a time with more missionaries suffering from complex addiction problems from porn to the Internet or, worse, video games.

They don't overcome these issues once they get back from the mission field (even if they make it all the way through).

In fact, most get sucked back into them.

Speaking as a man with six daughters who are beautiful, intelligence, capable, responsible and temple marriage eligible I can state with authority that today's men are not men at all. They are soft, blind, cowardly, lazy, inept and spineless. I can tell you stories. The young women of the Church today have much in common with their plural wife pioneer ancestors who spent much of their adult lives alone. The circumstances are just a bit different.

We have a young man in our ward who is educated, steadily employed, active in the Church, and, reportedly, attractive. He's also 35 years old and unmarried.

I'm not sure what his problem is. But someone needs to light a fire under some of these guys.

[jo1952]

There are some good responses in this thread but I think we're failing to get to the heart of the problem. You're all talking like young men in the Church, even RMs, are adults. They are far from it.

Never was there a time with more missionaries coming home because they just couldn't hack it, were not prepared or just didn't want to be there. Never was there a time with so many missionaries on meds for everything from depression to ADHD. Never was there a time with more missionaries suffering from complex addiction problems from porn to the Internet or, worse, video games.

They don't overcome these issues once they get back from the mission field (even if they make it all the way through).

In fact, most get sucked back into them.

Speaking as a man with six daughters who are beautiful, intelligence, capable, responsible and temple marriage eligible I can state with authority that today's men are not men at all. They are soft, blind, cowardly, lazy, inept and spineless. I can tell you stories. The young women of the Church today have much in common with their plural wife pioneer ancestors who spent much of their adult lives alone. The circumstances are just a bit different.

We have a young man in our ward who is educated, steadily employed, active in the Church, and, reportedly, attractive. He's also 35 years old and unmarried.

I'm not sure what his problem is. But someone needs to light a fire under some of these guys.

Okay..... So, do you think these "soft, blind, cowardly, lazy, inept and spineless" young men are salvageable? Do you have any ideas on how to "fix" them and get them back into the Church?

This has got to be a very distressing topic for you. You have six daughters who desire to be married and sealed in the Temple in order for them to live their lives in accordance with Mormon culture. You want the same thing for them; you want them to find happiness in the manner that they believe they can find it. This is a huge deal!!! It is NOT a new problem for the Church; though the numbers being effected are increasing.

[AussieOi]

He's gay.
give him credit for sticking with it

[dauser]

The young women does not want to be a companion and help-meet.

Young women are too busy doing mirror work, education, employment and being hard to get w/ high expectations.

Why get a man when ya got family and government to provide and protect.

Guys are more likely to come damaged chemically, socially, educationally, sexually, legally, financially, spiritually etc...

Family, Government, church, school, employment is far less caring for the guy than the gal.

Again the guy is more likely to be needy for companionship and an help-meet.

The hormones of a guys are boiling 100x that of a gal...pornography, alternative lifestyles, addictions catch him more guilty, unworthy as heck.

Not good enough for our young ladies. Don't want to date... why date when ya got a computer and television with all the bells and whistles.

Guys are more alone than the gals...it is not good for man... to be alone.

[Elizabeth]

That is unfair and uncalled for. Just because a person does not rush into marriage, does not choose to marry, or has not found the partner they want to be with, does not mean they are perverted.

He's gay.
give him credit for sticking with it

[Sheol27]

The young women does not want to be a companion and help-meet.

Young women are too busy doing mirror work, education, employment and being hard to get w/ high expectations.

Why get a man when ya got family and government to provide and protect.

Guys are more likely to come damaged chemically, socially, educationally, sexually, legally, financially, spiritually etc...

Family, Government, church, school, employment is far less caring for the guy than the gal.

Again the guy is more likely to be needy for companionship and an help-meet.

The hormones of a guys are boiling 100x that of a gal...pornography, alternative lifestyles, addictions catch him more guilty, unworthy as heck.

Not good enough for our young ladies. Don't want to date... why date when ya got a computer and television with all the bells and whistles.

Guys are more alone than the gals...it is not good for man... to be alone.

Guys aren't the only ones that look at porn......

[Sheol27]

That is unfair and uncalled for. Just because a person does not rush into marriage, does not choose to marry, or has not found the partner they want to be with, does not mean they are perverted.

He's gay.
give him credit for sticking with it

I think he put that out there to see who would bite, and you did.......

[ajax]

In ancient Anglo/Saxon Culture the Guild System meant that meaningful work and career opportunities happened much earlier in life than it does today.

What are we to learn from studying our ancestral culture model for preparing our youth for life's opportunities?

Darren, I have money to burn at amazon. What would you recommend as in regards to this anglo/saxon norse cultural model. I've been thinking about Heimskringla by Snorri Sturluson. What say you?

[Darren]

Darren, I have money to burn at amazon. What would you recommend as in regards to this anglo/saxon norse cultural model. I've been thinking about Heimskringla by Snorri Sturluson. What say you?

Download and read these books, as a commentary to the sources of Nordic Culture, from an LDS perspective:

The Story of Our Law for Little Children
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... ur_law.pdf

The History of School (NEW LEARNING BOOK ONE)
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... school.pdf

The History of Money Part 1 (NEW LEARNING BOOK TWO PART 1)
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... part_1.pdf

History of Money Part 2 (NEW LEARNING BOOK TWO PART 2)
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... part_2.pdf

The History of Business (NEW LEARNING BOOK THREE)
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... he_law.pdf

Work by the Law
http://s98822910.onlinehome.us/thousand ... he_law.pdf

and there is more...

God Bless,
Darren

[Melissa]

The young women does not want to be a companion and help-meet.

Young women are too busy doing mirror work, education, employment and being hard to get w/ high expectations.

Why get a man when ya got family and government to provide and protect.

Guys are more likely to come damaged chemically, socially, educationally, sexually, legally, financially, spiritually etc...

Family, Government, church, school, employment is far less caring for the guy than the gal.

Again the guy is more likely to be needy for companionship and an help-meet.

The hormones of a guys are boiling 100x that of a gal...pornography, alternative lifestyles, addictions catch him more guilty, unworthy as heck.

Not good enough for our young ladies. Don't want to date... why date when ya got a computer and television with all the bells and whistles.

Guys are more alone than the gals...it is not good for man... to be alone.

Guys aren't the only ones that look at porn......

Hormones....women have plenty of hormones! To say men are more sexual than women just might be false but I think it is expressed and thought about in different ways between the genders, maybe.

I agree, it is not good for man to be alone. But, the man needs to want something greater than himself inorder to get married. As does the woman. This world is appealing to both genders to not get married. Both can have what they want and need without getting married.

We must teach the young people (married and single) to keep their eye looking up towards eternity and it is by using that as your northern star, you can find your way through this maze of distractions.

[Fairminded]

Perhaps instead of looking at what men are doing wrong in marriage, as many here seem to be doing, we should examine how our modern society and its social pressures have destroyed relationships and eviscerated marriage itself. To have the idyllic marriage the Church puts forth as what every young man and woman should strive for flies in the face of a reality of economic and social factors that are going to make such a marriage difficult to the point of impossibility.

Perhaps Church leaders need to stray from their convenient staple of blaming the priesthood holders and start taking a close look at the way things are in society and what really needs to be done to protect marriage for men and women both.

Or, in street terms, they need to stop hating the player and hate the game instead.

[AussieOi]

Maybe if we taught newlyweds what proper tithing is, they would have sufficient to have children earlier?

What programs and policies does the church have to encourage and support more children?

[rasattack]

Sometimes I wonder what I would be like if I'd lived in an older time when apprenticeships and learning an occupation at a young age were normal. Instead I'm left looking at the dumpster fire my life has become when things that I grew up believing were supposed to just happen, like marriage, never did. Now I'm left wondering how to grow up and reverse my life's course when I have so much negative emotion built up inside me that I can barely function. It's a strange thing to be desperately lonely yet push people away and actively avoid anything except the most superficial human contact possible.

[jo1952]

Sometimes I wonder what I would be like if I'd lived in an older time when apprenticeships and learning an occupation at a young age were normal. Instead I'm left looking at the dumpster fire my life has become when things that I grew up believing were supposed to just happen, like marriage, never did. Now I'm left wondering how to grow up and reverse my life's course when I have so much negative emotion built up inside me that I can barely function. It's a strange thing to be desperately lonely yet push people away and actively avoid anything except the most superficial human contact possible.

We are living in the times when men's hearts shall fail them. Our faith is a prescious thing. Hang on to it!! God's purposes will not fail. What we were brought up to believe would be the ideal life---what was supposed to make us happy, is simply not within reach for more and more individuals. This may sound a little strange....but without the trappings of what we normally expect in the physical world, it should be easier to keep God first. It will be easier to give up everything physical, monetary or "thing" based---even the needs created by marriage and making a marriage "successful". It will be easier to sacrifice one's life for Christ; something which I believe is going to become necessary, even inevitable, in the end times.

[Sunain]

As one that is in the over 30 single adult category, I was very disappointed in a talk I heard recently called "An Evening with Elder Jeffrey R. Holland - Be Not Afraid, Only Believe". I am one that looks forward to his talks and his recent one at April 2015 Conference was especially good. As an active, returned missionary with a temple recommend, I almost found his talk offensive in nature. He did start off by saying that his wife had been very ill lately, so I understand that he is under some stress of late but the delivery of his talk was not in the spirit of the apostle I've come to know and love and he even stated that it was 'bullish'.

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... s?lang=eng" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The church wants members to marry too young these days, stay out of debt and get an education while in reality unless you've lived a privileged life or have extra means of support, the two do not match reality anymore. Gone are the days where people would find and get a full-time job and could support a young family but the church and President Holland refused to acknowledge this. This is not pessimism, this is reality for many young members of the church. The world is not the world the church attests it to be and nor do contemporary ideals match that with what the church suggests we should follow.

In less severe, more common cases, they are fearful that the world will just get more difficult, that jobs will be too hard to find, and that one should be out of school, out of debt, have a career, and own a home before considering marriage. Good grief! On that formula Sister Holland and I still wouldn’t be married!

I think he thinks he's trying to be funny here but he's not funny at all. Yes, some people find eligible people to marry at BYU but over 60% of members now live outside of North America. Obviously he has some church statistics that are saying this is becoming more and more the case with young adults in the church as well hence why he was trying to tell us that the trend needs to be reversed but here are some statistics from a recent news article that are very contrary to what President Holland is saying we should do as young adults.

52 per cent of workers are in temporary, contract, or part-time positions. “This is the new form of employment.”
It is also a major cause of social stress for people, regardless of income.
Precarious workers are twice as likely as those in stable jobs to report having mental health problems.
They are six times more likely to delay starting a relationship because of job uncertainty.
They are three times more likely to delay having kids.
And almost half of precarious workers say their employment situation disrupts their family life.
(http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/05 ... -says.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)

Outside of Utah and perhaps Arizona, the number of active single adults is dismal and in combination with financial issues and job prospects, is the new reality for young adults. Compounding this issue is members of the church hounding, (and I don't use this term lightly either), young adults about dates and marriage. It's stressful enough as it is to then have members exacerbating the issue. President Holland tries to explain that its a lack of faith and fear that is the main reason for this current trend of young adults but that is where I draw the line. It is not a lack of faith or fear to want to be self-sufficient as the church also councils but it is current world social issues are the reason for this change in LDS single adults and we are adapting the best we can to try to live in the world but not of the world.

So, if you haven’t noticed, I am bullish on the latter-days. For example, it is alarming to us that in the last 50 years the natural median age for men to marry has risen from age 22 to age 28!

The average age that most adults that even get married around here is 35 these days so that's already a lot higher that current church statistics. Regardless of what church members say, 22 is too young to get married these days. The core issue really is the fact that the church is afraid young adults will transgress and break covenants if they don't get married 2 minutes after they return from their missions. Many members are better than that, especially those that have grown up outside of large LDS centers. They have already dealt with these issues their entire lives and know how to approach situations that might affect worthiness. President Holland seems to suggest that this LDS unmarried statistic is rapidly trending upward thus 'increasing' the issue of possibly unworthiness.

The 30 year old cut off for singles is a big part of the problem. I know of singles, including returned missionaries, being refused admission and access to singles activities once turning 30. It is ridiculous.

This has been my experience as well and I would argue that even if we are allowed, it becomes an uncomfortable situation and environment. There are even less single adult activities and wards worldwide which once again compounds issues. I've even talked to a few people who have had similar issues in their late 20's being ostracized because they don't fit in with the very young crowd which seems to be the majority of mos YSA's these days.

Recently members of the church seem to associate never married single adults as unworthy, have mental issues or personality issues. THIS is what President Holland needed to address in his talk as there are plenty of members that are worthy active members of the church but just haven't had the opportunities required to get married. President Holland also insinuates this and is the core of my offense with his talk.

I've had many people I know that aren't members of the church want to go on dates but unfortunately their activities do not match the standards of the church. A night at the bar, rock concerts that are not uplifting music, ect. The purpose of church activities and dating members of the church is to limit these problems.

These are definitely issues the church needs to address soon and not in the way, attitude or suggestions that President Holland brought up. As members of the church we take the council that the prophets and apostles teach but we also have to be objective with our own situations and publically decrying we aren't following the churches expectations is part of the problem whether they acknowledge that or not. We are all trying our best, but situations and opportunities aren't always forthcoming but just because they aren't doesn't mean we aren't faithful or are fearful.