so in short.. END THE FED!!!!Darren wrote:
MONEY.
So the real questions are: How did the Saxons live in their Law of Consecration and Stewardship from 42 A.D. until the mid 8th Century? What has survived in our culture today from that successful deployment of their Law of Consecration and Stewardship Culture for those many centuries. And how to tell it apart from Babylon.
A moneyless society.
God Bless,
Darren
You nailed it right on the head! Puritan New England was begun just before the Bank of England set up shop in London, and by continuing their culture, they brought from Deuteronomy Styled Old England before the Changeover at that banking control event in the mid 1600s, Puritan New England distanced and saved itself from the ravages of the Bank of England upon English Law Culture.sandman45 wrote:so in short.. END THE FED!!!!
) 
Some principles are in there but I am not sure the Lord plans on bringing it back. I think it will be different the next go around. Some principles will remain just not all of it. As CtS was trying to say. I mean they had to tell who would be in it and notAn organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51:3; 78:1–15; 104).
In your temporal things you shall be equal:D&C 70:14;
The Saints were to be organized to be equal in all things:D&C 78:3–11; ( D&C 82:17–20; )
The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment:D&C 92:1;
John Johnson should become a member of the united order:D&C 96:6–9;
The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order:D&C 104;
My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom:D&C 105:1–13;
... :-$ A study of the D&C and the events that took place in Kirtland show that a failure to live consecration resulted in the fullness of the priesthood being taken away from us. We also lost the fullness of the gospel, at that point and were put under the law of carnal commandments. We cannot fail to live up to what God asks of us and not have consequences. It is amazing that no one sees this. They just say, oh God gave us tithing instead and everything is going along just fine. Wrong! We are not on a Celestial course. We are like the people of Moses, who lost the greater priesthood and blessings and were doomed to wander the wilderness. Our ancestors were chased out of the mid-west for much the same reason. It is right in front of our nose, in the D&C.Still Learning wrote:In the past couple of weeks we had a discussion on the law of consecration in Gospel Doctrine. Quite honestly it made my spine tingle to hear some of the nonsense people were saying. Essentially we left class with the majority agreeing that we are in fact currently living the law of consecration! In essence the argument was that we live it currently up to the point we have been currently commanded. A guy said that he serves in his church calling and pays his tithing and therefore he does live that law. And when more is asked of him he will live it. Therefore, he is consecrating all his time, talent, and means - so much as he has been commanded - he lives the law. Many voiced similar opinions of the like. My opinion was that we are not living that law...by any means...other than doing the bare minimum of what we think will bring us into celestial glory. My opinion has long been that we will see all of our riches taken away and destroyed, along with the current economic system which is really just a battle with our neighbor to see who can get the most.
Sorry to derail this thread if I did. I really loved the comments from Deep Water and CTR - you are right, love is the reason we would live the law...a perfect love that currently doesn't exist among us (perhaps there are a few exceptions). How wonderful it will be, not to live the law of consecration, but to live and experience a perfect love. That is a perfect explantion as to why in Zion there are no poor among them. If you truly cared and loved as God does, you would use your last dollar to help another. Wow! What a sacrifice we would have to make in today's world to do that. I'm not wealthy as to the temporal things in this world, but even so, it would be difficult to give all my excess each month to someone else...we are too judgemental and greedy to do that. Darren, I agree, your comments and insight are invaluable. I think you are talking about two completely different things...and I probably just added a third...and I know it has been discussed on other threads. My apologies!
D&C 49:
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.
D&C 38:
26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?
27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.[/quote]
How many think they are following the ways of God when they elevate themselves above others through the use of superior intellect and talent?
We are cultivating a Terrestrial inheritance, at best.Doctrine and Covenants 42:30
30 And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken.
Doctrine and Covenants 70:14
14 Nevertheless, in your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld.
7 For if you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you.[/D&C 78:
3 For verily I say unto you, the time has come, and is now at hand; and behold, and lo, it must needs be that there be an organization of my people, in regulating and establishing the affairs of the storehouse for the poor of my people, both in this place and in the land of Zion—
4 For a permanent and everlasting establishment and order unto my church, to advance the cause, which ye have espoused, to the salvation of man, and to the glory of your Father who is in heaven;
5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.
6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things;
The principles can be found my pondering on the system, the way it was set up, why it was set up that way. You can learn things about leadership, care of the widows and orphans, how God views property, and so forth. Lots of good lessons there.TZONE wrote:Ok apparently there are two parts to the United Order, one by JS and one implemented by BY later on.
I had no idea.
LDS.org Unite OrderSome principles are in there but I am not sure the Lord plans on bringing it back. I think it will be different the next go around. Some principles will remain just not all of it. As CtS was trying to say. I mean they had to tell who would be in it and notAn organization through which the Saints in the early days of the restored Church sought to live the law of consecration. Individuals shared property, goods, and profits, receiving these things according to their wants and needs (D&C 51:3; 78:1–15; 104).
In your temporal things you shall be equal:D&C 70:14;
The Saints were to be organized to be equal in all things:D&C 78:3–11; ( D&C 82:17–20; )
The Lord gave unto the united order a revelation and a commandment:D&C 92:1;
John Johnson should become a member of the united order:D&C 96:6–9;
The Lord gave general instructions for operating the united order:D&C 104;
My people are not united according to the union required by the celestial kingdom:D&C 105:1–13;
I think you are right.
I liked what Darren was saying too.
Thanks Thomas. I think you are exactly right. We as LDS have become a society that in my opinion has wanted so hard to be accepted by Babylon that we have blinded ourselves to thinking that we can partake of the world and still remain true and faithful to the Lord. It just doesn't work that way. We are fence sitters, we confess that we know God and obey him all the while we turn our back on him when it doesn't fit our desires. We think going to church once a week will save us or now that I am sealed in the temple I am saved. This is buying into the same falsehood that most religions believe today. Most teach that all you have to do is accept God by saying so and you are saved but it goes much deeper than that. We have to become like him and living the law of consecration is no different. We lust after the things that have no power to save us. We should seek after only God and follows Jesus Christ and our lives will the begin to transform until we become like him. This process that we are supposed to follow in our lives is difficult to see when we have so many enticing things around us to distract from what really matters. It took me a long time to realize this and I pass no judgement on anyone for not being in the same place as I, for I know that I am certainly yet to awaken to many of my own faults and false paradigmes. But once we realize that we do need to change, that we do hold false beliefs and have been blinded by our own carnal lusts - whatever they may be - that is our beginning on a journey that will lead us to Christ. It is not easy, but the path becomes more clear as we go and slowly transform into a celestial being through our repentance and the grace and mercy of God. To me it is exciting to see that there are a lot of people on the same path - a path that I never knew existed even though it was right there in front of me the whole time.Thomas wrote:A study of the D&C and the events that took place in Kirtland show that a failure to live consecration resulted in the fullness of the priesthood being taken away from us. We also lost the fullness of the gospel, at that point and were put under the law of carnal commandments. We cannot fail to live up to what God asks of us and not have consequences. It is amazing that no one sees this. They just say, oh God gave us tithing instead and everything is going along just fine. Wrong! We are not on a Celestial course. We are like the people of Moses, who lost the greater priesthood and blessings and were doomed to wander the wilderness. Our ancestors were chased out of the mid-west for much the same reason. It is right in front of our nose, in the D&C.Still Learning wrote:In the past couple of weeks we had a discussion on the law of consecration in Gospel Doctrine. Quite honestly it made my spine tingle to hear some of the nonsense people were saying. Essentially we left class with the majority agreeing that we are in fact currently living the law of consecration! In essence the argument was that we live it currently up to the point we have been currently commanded. A guy said that he serves in his church calling and pays his tithing and therefore he does live that law. And when more is asked of him he will live it. Therefore, he is consecrating all his time, talent, and means - so much as he has been commanded - he lives the law. Many voiced similar opinions of the like. My opinion was that we are not living that law...by any means...other than doing the bare minimum of what we think will bring us into celestial glory. My opinion has long been that we will see all of our riches taken away and destroyed, along with the current economic system which is really just a battle with our neighbor to see who can get the most.
Sorry to derail this thread if I did. I really loved the comments from Deep Water and CTR - you are right, love is the reason we would live the law...a perfect love that currently doesn't exist among us (perhaps there are a few exceptions). How wonderful it will be, not to live the law of consecration, but to live and experience a perfect love. That is a perfect explantion as to why in Zion there are no poor among them. If you truly cared and loved as God does, you would use your last dollar to help another. Wow! What a sacrifice we would have to make in today's world to do that. I'm not wealthy as to the temporal things in this world, but even so, it would be difficult to give all my excess each month to someone else...we are too judgemental and greedy to do that. Darren, I agree, your comments and insight are invaluable. I think you are talking about two completely different things...and I probably just added a third...and I know it has been discussed on other threads. My apologies!
Even those who consider consecration mostly have a skewed, capitalist view of it.D&C 49:
20 But it is not given that one man should possess that which is above another, wherefore the world lieth in sin.D&C 38:
26 For what man among you having twelve sons, and is no respecter of them, and they serve him obediently, and he saith unto the one: Be thou clothed in robes and sit thou here; and to the other: Be thou clothed in rags and sit thou there—and looketh upon his sons and saith I am just?
27 Behold, this I have given unto you as a parable, and it is even as I am. I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.[/quote]
How many think they are following the ways of God when they elevate themselves above others through the use of superior intellect and talent?
We are cultivating a Terrestrial inheritance, at best.Doctrine and Covenants 42:30
30 And behold, thou wilt remember the poor, and consecrate of thy properties for their support that which thou hast to impart unto them, with a covenant and a deed which cannot be broken.
Doctrine and Covenants 70:14
14 Nevertheless, in your temporal things you shall be equal, and this not grudgingly, otherwise the abundance of the manifestations of the Spirit shall be withheld.7 For if you will that I give unto you a place in the celestial world, you must prepare yourselves by doing the things which I have commanded you and required of you.[/D&C 78:
3 For verily I say unto you, the time has come, and is now at hand; and behold, and lo, it must needs be that there be an organization of my people, in regulating and establishing the affairs of the storehouse for the poor of my people, both in this place and in the land of Zion—
4 For a permanent and everlasting establishment and order unto my church, to advance the cause, which ye have espoused, to the salvation of man, and to the glory of your Father who is in heaven;
5 That you may be equal in the bonds of heavenly things, yea, and earthly things also, for the obtaining of heavenly things.
6 For if ye are not equal in earthly things ye cannot be equal in obtaining heavenly things;
We have traded a Celestial glory for temporal greed.
