The Fastest Way to Make Your Calling and Election Sure

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Thank you Swiftbrook!! Here are a few more examples in this thread:

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[AshleyB]

I don't mean to muddy any waters in this conversation but I am genuinely interested in what people think about this. The Second Annointing ordinance is def not the same as receiving ones Calling and Election so Im not talking about that. But there does seem to be a precedent for those with sealing powers being messengers for God and giving one knowledge of their Calling and Election.

The first two examples that come to mind off the top of my head are when Jopeph Smith sealed members of the Colesville branch up to eternal life. Joseph clearly had the sealing powers. In the case of these saints HE (Joseph) was simply a vehicle for these people to come to the knowledge that they were sealed up. Another example I can think of is when Hyrum Smith who definitely held sealing powers as well pronounced upon a Woman in a personal blessing that she had been sealed up to eternal life. I would think these people would undoubtedly receive their own witnesses that these words/blessings were true but there does seem to be a precedent for the message being initially delivered via the voice of one of the Lord's servants. I also know of a person who received knowledge that they were sealed up to eternal life via a Priesthood blessing they received. This person received their own confirmations of what had been said.

There is also that scripture that says: " Whether by mine own voice or by the mouth of my servants it is the SAME."

Thoughts anyone? It would seem that this is the more rare occurrence based on scripture and historical examples. Yet there does seem to be a precedent for it.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

I don't mean to muddy any waters in this conversation but I am genuinely interested in what people think about this. The Second Annointing ordinance is def not the same as receiving ones Calling and Election so Im not talking about that. But there does seem to be a precedent for those with sealing powers being messengers for God and giving one knowledge of their Calling and Election.

The first two examples that come to mind off the top of my head are when Jopeph Smith sealed members of the Colesville branch up to eternal life. Joseph clearly had the sealing powers. In the case of these saints HE (Joseph) was simply a vehicle for these people to come to the knowledge that they were sealed up. Another example I can think of is when Hyrum Smith who definitely held sealing powers as well pronounced upon a Woman in a personal blessing that she had been sealed up to eternal life. I would think these people would undoubtedly receive their own witnesses that these words/blessings were true but there does seem to be a precedent for the message being initially delivered via the voice of one of the Lord's servants. I also know of a person who received knowledge that they were sealed up to eternal life via a Priesthood blessing they received. This person received their own confirmations of what had been said.

There is also that scripture that says: " Whether by mine own voice or by the mouth of my servants it is the SAME."

Thoughts anyone? It would seem that this is the more rare occurrence based on scripture and historical examples. Yet there does seem to be a precedent for it.

Would it not still have to be ratified by God through the Holy Spirit of Promise?

[AshleyB]

I don't mean to muddy any waters in this conversation but I am genuinely interested in what people think about this. The Second Annointing ordinance is def not the same as receiving ones Calling and Election so Im not talking about that. But there does seem to be a precedent for those with sealing powers being messengers for God and giving one knowledge of their Calling and Election.

The first two examples that come to mind off the top of my head are when Jopeph Smith sealed members of the Colesville branch up to eternal life. Joseph clearly had the sealing powers. In the case of these saints HE (Joseph) was simply a vehicle for these people to come to the knowledge that they were sealed up. Another example I can think of is when Hyrum Smith who definitely held sealing powers as well pronounced upon a Woman in a personal blessing that she had been sealed up to eternal life. I would think these people would undoubtedly receive their own witnesses that these words/blessings were true but there does seem to be a precedent for the message being initially delivered via the voice of one of the Lord's servants. I also know of a person who received knowledge that they were sealed up to eternal life via a Priesthood blessing they received. This person received their own confirmations of what had been said.

There is also that scripture that says: " Whether by mine own voice or by the mouth of my servants it is the SAME."
Thoughts anyone? It would seem that this is the more rare occurrence based on scripture and historical examples. Yet there does seem to be a precedent for it.

Would it not still have to be ratified by God through the Holy Spirit of Promise?

Yes, it would. The person hearing the message would still have to receive of their own confirmation but if the words are true and the words are from Christ they would be sealed the moment they are spoken.

[A Random Phrase]

Jay, interesting signature. I think if we all had that attitude with people we disagree so strongly with, contention on this forum would pretty much cease. (I say this in all seriousness.)

* Those who insist on using quotes or information (or who have been noted for doing so) from apostates to support their opinions of the gospel doctrines of Jesus Christ will not be responded to.

Of course, there is the ignore button, which I have found useful on occasion. In your control panel, it is listed as "foe" but when a post from them is in a thread, it is stated that the person is on your "ignore" list.

[ajax]

Who gave Isaac and Jacob their calling and election?

[Bryan LJ]

Joseph Smith was speaking one time and he talked about this doctrine. He said that we had the "privilege to view the Son of Man himself" and that God "can seal you up to eternal life". He followed these statements up by saying, "It is our privilege to pray & obtain these things."

[freedomforall]

I don't mean to muddy any waters in this conversation but I am genuinely interested in what people think about this. The Second Annointing ordinance is def not the same as receiving ones Calling and Election so Im not talking about that. But there does seem to be a precedent for those with sealing powers being messengers for God and giving one knowledge of their Calling and Election.

The first two examples that come to mind off the top of my head are when Jopeph Smith sealed members of the Colesville branch up to eternal life. Joseph clearly had the sealing powers. In the case of these saints HE (Joseph) was simply a vehicle for these people to come to the knowledge that they were sealed up. Another example I can think of is when Hyrum Smith who definitely held sealing powers as well pronounced upon a Woman in a personal blessing that she had been sealed up to eternal life. I would think these people would undoubtedly receive their own witnesses that these words/blessings were true but there does seem to be a precedent for the message being initially delivered via the voice of one of the Lord's servants. I also know of a person who received knowledge that they were sealed up to eternal life via a Priesthood blessing they received. This person received their own confirmations of what had been said.

There is also that scripture that says: " Whether by mine own voice or by the mouth of my servants it is the SAME."

Thoughts anyone? It would seem that this is the more rare occurrence based on scripture and historical examples. Yet there does seem to be a precedent for it.

Would it not still have to be ratified by God through the Holy Spirit of Promise?

for those who live in the light, section eighty-eight unfolds an amazing pattern of personal progression. As we grow in understanding and obedience, we receive more light. This includes the prompting of the Holy Ghost, then the gift of the Holy Ghost, then ratification by the Holy Spirit of Promise. As the light increases according to our faithfulness, the day will come when our calling and election is made sure (see D&C 88:4). Then we are prepared, taught Joseph Smith, to receive in this life the Second Comforter—the presence of Christ. And finally comes glorious sanctification in the Father's holy presence. So it is that "he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter "(D&C 50:24).

Here is the process:
As we grow we gain
1 prompting of the Holy Ghost
2 gift of the Holy Ghost
3 then ratification by the Holy Spirit of Promise
4 day will come when our calling and election is made sure
5 we are prepared to receive in this life the Second Comforter—the presence of Christ
6 finally comes glorious sanctification in the Father's holy presence

http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publica ... hapid=1203" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Original_Intent]

/bump

[Rick Grimes]

Great thread. My sincerest and humbled thanks to all (especially Amonhi) who participated!

[Amonhi]

Great thread. My sincerest and humbled thanks to all (especially Amonhi) who participated!

Wow, thanks Brother Grimes!

Amonhi

[bethany]

Have you and/or your wife then been translated?

If they were part of the 144,000 they would have to be translated beings. Once again I am uncomfortable with someone coming on an internet forum saying they are part of this glorious missionary force of hunters (Jeremiah 16:16) which is to happen at the time of the redemption of Zion prior to the second coming of the Lord. Lets just say I have a healthy dose of skepticism here. I will leave it at that.

We have a misconception of Ppl being instantly translated. I am learning it is more of a process that takes time. There are ministerings & teachings. We treat it like it is instantaneous. There are reasons Enoch's city lingered while ppl went thru the process. I know of a few who are part of the 144,000 & of a few who've had their C & E made sure. It comes in different ways.

[freedomforall]

Holy Spirit of Promise

The Holy Ghost is the Holy Spirit of Promise (Acts 2:33). He confirms as acceptable to God the righteous acts, ordinances, and covenants of men. The Holy Spirit of Promise witnesses to the Father that the saving ordinances have been performed properly and that the covenants associated with them have been kept.

They who are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise receive all that the Father has:D&C 76:51–60; ( Eph. 1:13–14; )
All covenants and performances must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise to have force after this life:D&C 132:7, 18–19, 26;

Holy Ghost

The third member of the Godhead (1 Jn. 5:7; D&C 20:28). He is a personage of Spirit, not having a body of flesh and bones (D&C 130:22). The Holy Ghost is often referred to as the Spirit, or the Spirit of God.

The Holy Ghost performs several vital roles in the plan of salvation. (1) He bears witness of the Father and the Son (1 Cor. 12:3; 3 Ne. 28:11; Ether 12:41). (2) He reveals the truth of all things (John 14:26; 16:13; Moro. 10:5; D&C 39:6). (3) He sanctifies those who have repented and become baptized (John 3:5; 3 Ne. 27:20; Moses 6:64–68). (4) He is the Holy Spirit of Promise (D&C 76:50–53; 132:7, 18–19, 26).

The power of the Holy Ghost can come upon a person before baptism and witness that the gospel is true. But the right to have the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, whenever one is worthy, is a gift that can be received only by the laying on of hands by a Melchizedek Priesthood holder after authorized baptism into the true Church of Jesus Christ.

Even Christ received the promise of the Holy Ghost and received His glory to sit next to the Father.

Acts 2:30-33
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

So for those who receive their C&E by way of a priesthood blessing, need not have it ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise, because the HG and the HSP are one in the same.

[Jeremy]

So for those who receive their C&E by way of a priesthood blessing, need not have it ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise, because the HG and the HSP are one in the same.

[Jeremy]

The third member of the Godhead (1 Jn. 5:7; D&C 20:28). He is a personage of Spirit, not having a body of flesh and bones (D&C 130:22). The Holy Ghost is often referred to as the Spirit, or the Spirit of God.

Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead?
A. Two: the Father and the Son
Q. What is the Father?
A. He is a personage of glory and power.
Q. What is the Son?
A. First, he is a personage of tabernacle.
D&C 1835 - Doctrine Part - Lecture 5

[FoxMammaWisdom]

So for those who receive their C&E by way of a priesthood blessing, need not have it ratified by the Holy Spirit of Promise, because the HG and the HSP are one in the same.

WOW..... ditto.

[Original_Intent]

Jeremy, I appreciate your patience. It's probably one of your defining characteristics, and of course is an expression of charity.

Seriously, what's next? "I received the Second Comforter by priesthood blessing, so I have received the Second Comforter and need no more Second Comforter!" ?

This is beyond And I clearly need to work on that patience thing.

[Jeremy]

Jeremy, I appreciate your patience. It's probably one of your defining characteristics, and of course is an expression of charity.

Are you making fun of my sad face regarding no need for the HSP to ratify C&E? You must be because "patience" is not a defining characteristic of mine... "lack of patience" is. If I said something offensive, I apologize. My expression was sadness and not meant to prop me up.


[edit]
Oh, I get it now. I must have seen your post before its current state.
Im still not very patient.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

Jeremy, I appreciate your patience. It's probably one of your defining characteristics, and of course is an expression of charity.

Are you making fun of my sad face regarding no need for the HSP to ratify C&E? You must be because "patience" is not a defining characteristic of mine... "lack of patience" is. If I said something offensive, I apologize. My expression was sadness and not meant to prop me up.


[edit]
Oh, I get it now. I must have seen your post before its current state.
Im still not very patient.

I absolutely support Jeremy's comments here.
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:p

[freedomforall]

The third member of the Godhead (1 Jn. 5:7; D&C 20:28). He is a personage of Spirit, not having a body of flesh and bones (D&C 130:22). The Holy Ghost is often referred to as the Spirit, or the Spirit of God.

Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead?
A. Two: the Father and the Son
Q. What is the Father?
A. He is a personage of glory and power.
Q. What is the Son?
A. First, he is a personage of tabernacle.
D&C 1835 - Doctrine Part - Lecture 5

And your point is?

[Original_Intent]

I have never been offended by one of your posts, Jeremy, and I was sincere in my comments regarding your patience.

That may be a misperception on my part, but you do respond much more kindly than I am inclined to.

[freedomforall]

If there is no HG, if there is no HSOP...then just who is the Holy Ghost spoken of that Christ, himself, received. And what promise?
This shoots holes in the lectures because Christ received the Holy Ghost just like everyone else that goes into God's presence. Christ is our exemplar in all things.

Read this closely and meticulously, and see if Christ received the promise of the Holy Ghost. Just who is it that sits on the right hand of the Father?

Acts 2:33
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Now read verses 30-32

[Jeremy]

And your point is?

How can the Holy Ghost be the third personage in the godhead if the godhead only has two personages?

[freedomforall]

And your point is?

How can the Holy Ghost be the third personage in the godhead if the godhead only has two personages?

The Holy Ghost is a personage of SPIRIT, not of flesh and bones. The Father and Son without the Holy Ghost would be like a radio announcer without a microphone. The Holy Ghost witnesses of the Father and the Son. He guides and directs people here on earth for the Father and Son. He knows the mind and will of the F and S. The F and S cannot be everywhere at the same time, but the HG can.

Because of this the Lectures on Faith were removed from Canon. I know there is a HG because he has spoken to me many times. Having the HG as a constant companion would be like being near the Father and Son all the time.

[Original_Intent]

And your point is?

How can the Holy Ghost be the third personage in the godhead if the godhead only has two personages?

The Holy Ghost is a personage of SPIRIT, not of flesh and bones. The Father and Son without the Holy Ghost would be like a radio announcer without a microphone. The Holy Ghost witnesses of the Father and the Son. He guides and directs people here on earth for the Father and Son. He knows the mind and will of the F and S. The F and S cannot be everywhere at the same time, but the HG can.

Because of this the Lectures on Faith were removed from Canon. I know there is a HG because he has spoken to me many times. Having the HG as a constant companion would be like being near the Father and Son all the time.

This is one of those posts that challenge my patience.

Really? THE Holy Ghost can be all places at once? How does that align with our understanding of personages of spirit - can they be everywhere at once? Are they so large that they fill the universe, and yet so small that He can dwell in your heart?