God's perception of intelligence

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seer stone
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God's perception of intelligence

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Man is born upon the earth without any knowledge of his previous life. As he grows from childhood to adulthood, he realizes that he is only a speck within the universe. Some how, each one of us needs to figure out what his purpose and where he fits within the chaos of vastness. He incorporates resources from his surroundings whether it is his parents, teachers, or friends to create his ideology or belief system. The light of Christ will confirm eternal truths and laws. Through his agency man will decide whether he believes in God, a higher power, or nothing at all. If he tightens his morals and strictly follows eternal laws, man will be blessed through his obedience and live free through his progression. If his laws are loose, man will be thrown around by the whims of nature which will cause him to digress. He will either face the consequences of the laws of the land or be judged by the courts of his Creator.

If man communicates with his higher power to seek for further light and truth, in God's own due time, he will guide and direct the gospel to the individual or lead the seeker of truth to the gospel. Missionaries will then introduce further truths such as the plan of salvation, additional scripture, priesthood authority, commandments and ordinances. The Holy Ghost will leave an impression on the soul of this individual and he will have the option on whether to accept it or not. If this person commits to the ordinance of baptism, he will receive the Holy Ghost which is a stronger influence than the Light of Christ to direct him through his life, receive personal revelation, comfort him in times of need, is voice of warning during times of danger, and will testify to him of the truthfulness of the gospel. Man continues to progress as he learns further light and knowledge through magnifying his calling and doing good works through service and charity. Each member of the church should be progressing towards Godhood by building and nurturing talents and heavenly attributes.

Men of the world seem to view intelligence by college degrees, awards, and wealth. Our Heavenly Father judges intelligence as we progress through eternity, accept eternal truths and laws and conform to His will by obeying His commandments and strengthening one another.

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Re: God's perception of intelligence

Post by Juliette »

seer stone wrote:Man is born upon the earth without any knowledge of his previous life. As he grows from childhood to adulthood, he realizes that he is only a speck within the universe. Some how, each one of us needs to figure out what his purpose and where he fits within the chaos of vastness. He incorporates resources from his surroundings whether it is his parents, teachers, or friends to create his ideology or belief system. The light of Christ will confirm eternal truths and laws. Through his agency man will decide whether he believes in God, a higher power, or nothing at all. If he tightens his morals and strictly follows eternal laws, man will be blessed through his obedience and live free through his progression. If his laws are loose, man will be thrown around by the whims of nature which will cause him to digress. He will either face the consequences of the laws of the land or be judged by the courts of his Creator.

If man communicates with his higher power to seek for further light and truth, in God's own due time, he will guide and direct the gospel to the individual or lead the seeker of truth to the gospel. Missionaries will then introduce further truths such as the plan of salvation, additional scripture, priesthood authority, commandments and ordinances. The Holy Ghost will leave an impression on the soul of this individual and he will have the option on whether to accept it or not. If this person commits to the ordinance of baptism, he will receive the Holy Ghost which is a stronger influence than the Light of Christ to direct him through his life, receive personal revelation, comfort him in times of need, is voice of warning during times of danger, and will testify to him of the truthfulness of the gospel. Man continues to progress as he learns further light and knowledge through magnifying his calling and doing good works through service and charity. Each member of the church should be progressing towards Godhood by building and nurturing talents and heavenly attributes.

Men of the world seem to view intelligence by college degrees, awards, and wealth. Our Heavenly Father judges intelligence as we progress through eternity, accept eternal truths and laws and conform to His will by obeying His commandments and strengthening one another.
Great post Seer Stone! This gospel of Jesus Christ is so wonderful. Receiving the Holy Ghost, the comfort, voice of warning and personal revelation is amazing.
I try to be a missionary, I want others to have these things. I am working with someone right now, who we got within 2 weeks of her baptism. She even had assigned the talks, I was playing the piano, etc. All of a sudden she wouldn't answer phone calls or knocks on the door. I went to her workplace and asked " Whats wrong"? She had come into contact with an anti-mormon that convinced her she was making a bad choice. I was heart broken. I am not giving up however. I feel that she believes and will come around someday. All I can do now is be a good friend and love her.

Rand
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Juliette, bless you, but it is better this way than after baptism and she is responsible for more light and truth than she is now. Keep doing missionary work. It is the best.

SeerStone, great post. +10

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seer stone
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Juliette wrote:
This gospel of Jesus Christ is so wonderful. Receiving the Holy Ghost, the comfort, voice of warning and personal revelation is amazing.
I try to be a missionary, I want others to have these things. I am working with someone right now, who we got within 2 weeks of her baptism. She even had assigned the talks, I was playing the piano, etc. All of a sudden she wouldn't answer phone calls or knocks on the door. I went to her workplace and asked " Whats wrong"? She had come into contact with an anti-mormon that convinced her she was making a bad choice. I was heart broken. I am not giving up however. I feel that she believes and will come around someday. All I can do now is be a good friend and love her.
Missionary work is such an intricate part of the gospel. It is important to give to those that lack a greater knowledge of the mysteries of heaven. It truly takes persistence, patience, and long suffering. If she accepts the gospel or not, just know, that she will appreciate your willingness to share with her that knowledge whether it happens to be in this life or in the life to come.

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marc
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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No Harvard grad compares in education to that of, say, Moses who saw worlds without number.

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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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seer stone wrote: February 20th, 2012, 5:53 pm Man continues to progress as he learns further light and knowledge through magnifying his calling and doing good works through service and charity. Each member of the church should be progressing towards Godhood by building and nurturing talents and heavenly attributes.
What would you say are some heavenly attributes?
Men of the world seem to view intelligence by college degrees, awards, and wealth. Our Heavenly Father judges intelligence as we progress through eternity, accept eternal truths and laws and conform to His will by obeying His commandments and strengthening one another.
I’ve wondered what really is most important in the big spiritual perspective, and what constitutes spiritual intelligence or God’s monetary system. Maybe multiple developments - mostly learning to love well, but part of that...healing so old wounds don’t hinder our ability to love and feel loved, learning - intellectually but also emotionally, socially, spiritually etc. It could be like exercising spiritual muscles by choosing and experiencing the consequences of those choices. Possibly, our spirituality can only be tested when it is so vague and up against such opposition... to give us a chance to genuinely choose God over other options- to obey spiritual commands - especially those personal ones.

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I was just thinking about the difference between intelligence and intellect this evening.

I think of intelligence as truth and light. We are taught it cannot be either created or destroyed and that God organizes intelligence.

Intellect, on some level, seems to be the counterfeit of intelligence. It is the wisdom of man. One can excel in intellectualism, without contributing much to the world if the intellect he builds is furnished with falsehood.

For example, it can be intellectually stimulating to engage in debates about philosophical ideas or theories that can't ever be proven. I feel like a lot of modern debates and issues have their roots in this area.

Intelligence, on the other hand, because it must be rooted in truth, can be understood even by the most unlearned of men in worldly knowledge, if the Spirit is there to confirm the truthfulness of it and unfold to the mind the meaning and wisdom behind it.

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Thinker
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Michelle wrote: November 12th, 2017, 10:07 pm I was just thinking about the difference between intelligence and intellect this evening.

I think of intelligence as truth and light. We are taught it cannot be either created or destroyed and that God organizes intelligence.

Intellect, on some level, seems to be the counterfeit of intelligence. It is the wisdom of man. One can excel in intellectualism, without contributing much to the world if the intellect he builds is furnished with falsehood.

For example, it can be intellectually stimulating to engage in debates about philosophical ideas or theories that can't ever be proven. I feel like a lot of modern debates and issues have their roots in this area.

Intelligence, on the other hand, because it must be rooted in truth, can be understood even by the most unlearned of men in worldly knowledge, if the Spirit is there to confirm the truthfulness of it and unfold to the mind the meaning and wisdom behind it.
Some say intellect is thought and intelligence is more based on feeling. Both are necessary and ideally work together. I don't see them as opposites, but as complimentary, though I can see how paralyzing skeptical intellect can and does interfere with spiritual intelligence. I sense the need to develop myself in every capacity possible. I realize that God can work with us no matter what educational level etc, but we have so much potential which are precious gifts - and like the parable of the talent, God wants us to put to use, not hide or ignore. IE: Many people benefit from the intellect of doctors to the point of saving their lives. Doctors can love (do best for others) more effectively. In our own lives, when we are able to analyze situations using both logic and spirit - we can see a clearer picture and then make better decisions.

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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Thinker wrote: November 12th, 2017, 7:00 pm
seer stone wrote: February 20th, 2012, 5:53 pm What would you say are some heavenly attributes?
I think this is a great question. I would suggest that the gifts of the spirit and the fruits of the spirit are some of the Heavenly attributes.
Things like faith, hope, patience, love, long suffering, kindness, diligence, humility, and most of all Charity. And then the fruits of the spirit like; discernment, the power to heal, to gain knowledge through revelation, have faith in the Savior of the World, and Universe etc.
I think the receipt of such characteristics is the effect of Grace. They come line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little...

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BruceRGilbert
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Michelle
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

Post by Michelle »

BruceRGilbert wrote: December 11th, 2017, 11:32 am
Thinker wrote: December 3rd, 2017, 5:48 pm
Michelle wrote: November 12th, 2017, 10:07 pm I was just thinking about the difference between intelligence and intellect this evening.

I think of intelligence as truth and light. We are taught it cannot be either created or destroyed and that God organizes intelligence.

Intellect, on some level, seems to be the counterfeit of intelligence. It is the wisdom of man. One can excel in intellectualism, without contributing much to the world if the intellect he builds is furnished with falsehood.

For example, it can be intellectually stimulating to engage in debates about philosophical ideas or theories that can't ever be proven. I feel like a lot of modern debates and issues have their roots in this area.

Intelligence, on the other hand, because it must be rooted in truth, can be understood even by the most unlearned of men in worldly knowledge, if the Spirit is there to confirm the truthfulness of it and unfold to the mind the meaning and wisdom behind it.
Some say intellect is thought and intelligence is more based on feeling. Both are necessary and ideally work together. I don't see them as opposites, but as complimentary, though I can see how paralyzing skeptical intellect can and does interfere with spiritual intelligence. I sense the need to develop myself in every capacity possible. I realize that God can work with us no matter what educational level etc, but we have so much potential which are precious gifts - and like the parable of the talent, God wants us to put to use, not hide or ignore. IE: Many people benefit from the intellect of doctors to the point of saving their lives. Doctors can love (do best for others) more effectively. In our own lives, when we are able to analyze situations using both logic and spirit - we can see a clearer picture and then make better decisions.
The scriptural definition of intelligence - being "Light" and "Truth" is very revealing. "Truth" is defined as a knowledge of things past, present and future." By the joining of these "definitions," as it were - it becomes apparent that Intelligence is "experiential" light . . . light that has gained experience by being organized and added upon. The "double slit" experiment famously identifies the scientific paradox of light having two properties . . . that of being a particle and that of being a wave. This, among other things, has established Quantum Mechanics. What ought to have been realized through "entanglement" and "spooky action at a distance" is that light is sentient. It has a frequency . . . and the higher the frequency, the greater the energy level. This is the "quickening," as it were. The electromagnetic spectrum, though utilizing different particles, is analogous to the phenomena of light.

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The purpose of this information is not to necessarily speak about the accumulation of light, but to talk about "resonance" and tuning with respect to what has been quoted above with respect to feeling and intellect. We find "symmetry" in nature and a model that has been provided by Heavenly Father in countless ways. It was given in the Tabernacle of Moses where the "Tabernacle" represented a "soul". The Outer being the physical body and the Inner being that which comprises a "spiritual body." The Holy Place that was "veiled," represented the mind with its inherent "furnishings" representing thought. An inner veil shrouded The Holy of Holies or the Most Holy containing the famous Ark of the Covenant with its Mercy Seat representing the heart and feeling. (Note: Feelings can only find expression by being processed and communicated via the mind - hence two veils.) Why two chambers? Why emphasis on the mind and the heart within the soul?

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The electromagnetic wave provides us with the information. It is comprised of both the "electro-"nic as well as "magnetic" phenomenum. Two distinct and different "forces" that are "one."

Without getting into too much "electronic" theory about Voltage being analogous to "pressure" and Current being analogous to "flow." Please consider the following:

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Note that a "Capacitor" which stores "charge" is analogous to the mind and the "Inductor" which could also be termed "Transformer" is analogous to the heart - which can "induct" and "transform." (Don't underestimate the power of God's influence in man's affairs and use of language.)

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Further, the "Heart/Mind" paradigm can be found elsewhere.

The man is the "Head" of the home in that he is the "mind," established to preside, provide and protect according to the Proclamation on the Family. The woman is the "Heart" of the home in that she is established to nurture. Just like the "Holy Place" stands at the opening to the inner sanctuary of the Tabernacle of the home, Man - as the "mind" is set forth to stand as the sentinel to preside, provide and protect that which is at the heart of the home . . . the "Most Holy" wherein there is nurturing.

The conclusion of the matter; therefore, is that intelligence involves both, thought for justice and feeling for mercy - male and female attributes.

Edited as directed to provide more information.

I have yet to encounter the information that I attained years ago from either the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Nag Hammadi Library that stated that the reason that God became who He is was because He learned the secret of LIGHT.

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It is insufficient to say, based upon the account in Abraham, that God only "saw" the stages of development of His children. Careful "ponderizing" on the account will yield that He actually was there. Hence, He has the ability to translate through time and this can explain His ability to minister "personally" to all of His children if need be.

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Contemplation of "descending" and "ascending" give rise to new paradigms with respect to "let us go down," etc. Descending below all things and being in and through all things have "dimensional" aspects to them. On a side note, please recognize that the Urim and Thumim is of "planetary size," whereas the "white stone" is significantly smaller. This would suggest that the "kingdoms of higher order" than Celestial would find occupancy on a smaller "scale" of dimension. Do Black Holes compress matter? ;)

Transfigure.

With complete control over self, Heavenly Father and the Savior have the ability to manifest themselves as pure light, Spirit, Soul without Glory, and Soul with Glory - any "physical" state that they choose. (See Ascension of Isaiah by Larson.)
A fanciful and flowery and heated imagination beware of; because the things of God are of deep import; and time, and experience, and careful and ponderous and solemn thoughts can only find them out. Thy mind, O man! if thou wilt lead a soul unto salvation, must stretch as high as the utmost heavens, and search into and contemplate the darkest abyss, and the broad expanse of eternity—thou must commune with God.


Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 137 (25 March 1839)
Lots of good thoughts here. Some I have thought before, some I will have to think about now. :)

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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Another paradox is the observer effect. In particular how passive observation affects what is being observed.

"Merely watching it" we're words in my mind upon first awakening yesterday morning.

Googling them didn't at first pan out, although I remembered hearing them in a song.

Turns out it's "Thank God I'm only watching the game, controlling it."

"My God what have I done" is another lyric that comes to mind, but that's from another song.

Simply watching for something plays a part in it actually happening. :o

My dad was an awesome chess player and he would occasionally enter the stake tournament and easily win everytime. He reasoned how can anyone from the Church ever teach me anything. This actually limited the truths available to him. :(

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I like how you think, Bruce. I’m still working on processing some ideas you posted before.

I’ve wondered possible deeper reasons why we need to descend from such vast perspective to live stumbling lives. I think we see or know things before life, but it’s shallow - not as much depth as actually feeling and experiencing. And I think such depth involves both sadness and joy - and ideally inspires us to love better.

So, what is the point? Maybe to feel deeply - not run from uncomfortable feelings or situations that would help me be and love better.

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These are some pretty amazing thoughts and insights, Bruce. Thanks for putting so much into one thread.

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BruceRGilbert
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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BruceRGilbert wrote: December 11th, 2017, 7:10 pm
Thanks for so much food for thought, Bruce.
There's a quote in the link above, and implication of Gnosticism, that is so extremely profound yet so often glanced over as insignificant. Jesus was considered more a redeemer of wisdom than messiah. Gnosticism is considered to be the 1st Christianity - and Christ was considered not a person, but "anointed one" - and Jesus suggested not to be worshipped but that we too could follow him and be and do as he was - even more - he said. I believe that Christianity has been warped so much that it now is in some ways evil and contrary to what Jesus actually taught. IE: "Without a parable spake he not unto them" - and yet we take the Christmas story as if Jesus told it just so we'd worship him, rather than see that it is about the divine influence of physical and spiritual births and more. Also, evil is not making mistakes (which we are intended to do) but it is denying responsibility and trying to make another pay, thereby damning oneself from learning. Making Jesus into a human sacrifice scapegoat may be orthodox and traditional - but I now see it as ungodly.

It's also interesting how they compared this world experience to the matrix illusional idea. I can see some truth, and yet I don't necessarily believe that it was created with evil intent - but rather that "there must needs be opposition in all things" because it allows us to deepen our experience, perception, vibration, energy, spirituality or however you want to call the essence of us. "I AM THAT I AM" - and "the kingdom of God is within you" - does suggest that God and our experience in this world is subjective (illusional). Initially, this realization to me at least, was taken as a sense of loss and betrayal. I felt stupid for being so convinced when it was all in my head - so to speak. However, after some time, I'm seeing that spirituality is so much about relating (like symbolism) and that even if it is all in my head - God is in there too! :) My way of connecting to God is largely based on my own imaginings - but that doesn't make them meaningless - only that they are primarily meaningful to me.

Maybe understanding more as God does involves empathy - coming to understand how others may imagine things and helping them accordingly.
BruceRGilbert wrote: December 22nd, 2017, 1:05 pm Thank you, Thinker. My "thinking" sometimes gets me into trouble. Too, there is a proclivity toward isolation because it is difficult to find those with whom to converse because of being "different." I am sure that you understand. I enjoy learning and having the "eyes of my understanding" opened, as it where . . . of which you, too, have had part . . . for which I am grateful . . . so, Thank YOU. I am terribly "human" and have made many mistakes, but I value the lessons and TRUTH.
Yes, I do understand - all too well, Bruce!

Some lds quotes you might like that kind of substantiate those of us who may seem to think outside the box... ;)

"None of us should get so busy that we crowd out contemplation & praying." - SW Kimball
"An egotists will never get anywhere in this world because he thinks he's already there." - MJ Ashton
"There is no true religion without true science, & consequently there is no true science without true religion." -BY
"Search the scriptures, search the prophets, & learn what portion of them belongs to you." -JS

"I do not know a worse degree of slavery than to be afraid to think for yourself and speak what you believe." -George Teasdale
"What the spirit is to the body, God is to the spirit." - DO McKAy
"It is the business of man to find the spiritual meaning of earthly things." -J.A Widstoe
"Time is on the side of truth, for truth is eternal." -ET BEnson (Eternal=beyond time)
"If we value house, if we value lands, if we value good name, if we value even life itself more than we do the truth, we are unworthy of the truth." -GQ Cannon
"Searching for truth is an obligation." - RL Evans

"The best way to improve our lives is to improve our thoughts." - Sterling W Sill
"The only heaven for you is that which you make yourselves." -BY

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gclayjr
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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Yea a lot of theory and analogy here. Maybe maybe not. Yet I think this can be distilled into a much simpler... and more profound analogy.

Every one of us can be eternally, and intellectually described by 2 things

1) where we are

2) where we are going

As Mormons we have often been told that we are in the second act of a 3 act play and have no memory of what happened in the 1st act, the pre-existance.

I believe that the most important mission for us in this 2nd estate is to choose which way we are going. This is what the future of our souls depends upon. Our spirits come into this earth in different places going different directions. We don't know exactly why we come into this world placed into this situation or going that direction, although it has been strongly hinted that it is a result of what happened in the pre-existence,

We may weave, wobble and sin, but as long as we make the right choice, either here or in the spirit world before judgment, we will end up in the right place (the Celestial Kingdom) and on a path for eternal joy. If we are facing the wrong direction, no matter how far we may have progressed in the right direction before turning to the wrong direction, we are eternally damned.

Christ's atonement, along with vicarious temple ordinances insures that all, no matter, how bad a start one may have, and how much one may loose their direction along the way, the possibility exists for all of us to end up facing the right direction and receive eternal bliss in the Celestial Kingdom.

All that being said, where were are is also important, not to be covetous of those who may be in a better situation than we are, but as a motivator for us to get in the right direction as soon as possible and to pursue it as vigorously as possible, that we may gain the most intelligence we can as soon as we can.

Regards,

George Clay

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inho
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

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gclayjr wrote: December 29th, 2017, 11:19 am Every one of us can be eternally, and intellectually described by 2 things

1) where we are

2) where we are going
I agree.
After Adam and Eve partook of forbidden fruit, God asked (according to Bible):
Genesis 3:9
And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
According to Pearl of Great Price, God asked:
Moses4:15
And I, the Lord God, called unto Adam, and said unto him: Where goest thou?
These are the questions we need to contemplate.

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gclayjr
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Re: God's perception of intelligence

Post by gclayjr »

Imho,

Thanks for the scriptural references. This is something that I had kind of noodled out myself, and was impressed by how profound it was. Now to see that it fits in so well with those scriptural references, enhances my understanding.

Regards,

George Clay

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