LDS Freedom Forum

Book of Ruth wrote:I just have to add my two cents here:

Muhammed- born 570 AD, married wealth Roman Catholic Woman Khadija.

According to Muslim tradition:

Khadija was a wealthy (trades-woman) widow who was not polytheistic. It is not known for sure what her religion was in pre-islamic Arabia. There were three (minorities) monotheistic religions available at the time according to Dr. Daniel Peterson (http://rsc.byu.edu/pubDPetersonUnderstandingIslam.php): Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism. Khadija's uncle was christian.

They had four daughter one of which was named Fatima.

Mohammad and Khadija had a daughter named Fatimah (who married her father's cousin, Ali; this is the man which the minority sect, Shia, believes was Mohammad's rightful successor. However, Abu Bakr, succeeded Mohammad. This line of succession was/is supported by the Sunni's.)

Fatimah is a very popular muslim name. Khadija's mother's name was Fatimah as well.

Fatimah, Portugal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ourém_Municipality#History

Under the Muslims, the village was apparently called Abdegas, but during the times of the Reconquista (12th century) it was called Portus de Auren, from which the name Ourém was later derived. According to popular myth, the name of the village is actually derived from a Moorish Princess who converted to Christianity under the name of Oureana.

The legend of the name of the village and Oureana is retold by Friar Bernardino de Brito in his Chronicle of the Order of Cister (1602): In a surprise attack on the St John's Day in 1158, a Christian knight, Gonçalo Hermigues and his companions kidnapped a Moorish princess with the famous Arab name of Fatima. The knight took Fatima to a small village of the recently-created Kingdom of Portugal, in the Serra de Aire hills. The princess fell in love with the Christian knight and decided to become herself a Christian, taking the name of Oureana. They got married and the princess received as prize the town which she called Ourém, after her name.
The name of the parish of Fátima of Ourém is probably related to this legend.

Sound familiar? Yep, the Lady of Fatima who appeared in Fatima Portugal to 3 catholic children. Whom gave the 3 prophecies, 2 have been made public, the last one held by the pope, regarding the last world war.

Our Lady of Fátima is a famous title given to the Blessed Virgin Mary as she appeared in apparitions reported by three shepherd children at Fátima in Portugal. These occurred on the 13th day of six consecutive months in 1917, starting on May 13. The three children were Lúcia dos Santos and her cousins Blessed Jacinta and Francisco Marto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_of_Fatima

Muhammed left for Middle East after the death of his wife very wealthy. Then we have the the start of Islam. Funded by the Roman Catholic's. Illumianti!!!
The whole idea of the Roman Catholics having some part in the beginnings of Islam is refuted on this Sunni Forum: http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/printthread.php?t=3150
Apparently, the anti-catholic activist, Alberto Rivera is responsible this accusation. Read more about him here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberto_Ri ... ated_Islam
It includes his accusations, as well as the cornerstone expose on him. Is this the source from which you are repeating claims, book of ruth? Or is there another source I am missing?

These two groups alone, catholics and muslims are approx. 4 billion people. There are only 6 billion on the earth.
Yea, we've got our work cut out for us. Please permit me to kindly suggest that learning about our billions of other brothers and sisters from their own mouths/hearts will get us much further along in such a work than what is represented in your post. And if you are going to post something like that please provide sources.

They are being highly controlled by dictators who are installed/supported by western govts to protect said western govts' (political, military, and business) interests and the Middle Eastern Anti-Christ and the Roman False Prophet have some pretty strong ties.Please substantiate.

570 AD + 1260 spoken of by Daniel= 1830 Coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Very few people know of this connection, but it's no coincidence. We must preach the gospel to ALL the world.

pritchet1 wrote:Please look at the other posts we did regarding the promotion of Shariah Law, the Pedophelia of Muhammad, the other writings and links we posted regarding the writings of Muhammad, the constant accounts of the "Religion of Peace" destroying Christian peoples around the world, the true meaning of "Allah", Taquia and how to lie to Christians to subjugate them and what "gentiles are called" by Muslims, how we as western people are to be assimulated or destroyed, how Muslims who convert to Mormonism have to be 'hidden', so as not to be killed by their relatives, the concept of honor killings (justified murder), ad nauseum. Yadayadayada.

Yes, we need to learn their culture and traditions, so as to help them understand the fullness of the Gospel today.

Oh and when a Muslim family invites you to eat, take them up on it. Tradition is that when you do, you are no longer in the "enemy" camp, but are then protected by them from other Muslims intent on your destruction.

We do not need to be apologists for Islam. We do need to be mindful of the hornet's nest we walk into and how to protect ourselves.

When we get a temple in Saudi Arabia and the Book of Mormon is openly accepted in Islamic States, then I will accept Islam as the "Religion of Peace". Sharia Law is totally and completely antithetical to the Constitution of the United States and should not exist within the borders of the United States.

And yes, the POTUS is Muslim and represents Taquia at its best.

I recall the words of Krister Stendahl, Lutheran Bishop of Stockholm, Sweden, and Dean of Divinity Emeritus, Harvard University. At a press conference in 1985 he offered three rules for interfaith discussion. The event was related by Truman G. Madsen, professor at Brigham Young University who was in attendance at the press conference (see video).

Madsen: “Professor Krister Stendahl, of Harvard Divinity School, became the Bishop of Stockholm, in Sweden. During a visit we made there, he called a press conference, invited various of his friends, and then said the following;

“He said, ‘I have three rules for interfaith discussion, to wit:

Number one: If you’re going to ask the question, what do others believe, in their various faiths, ask them – not their critics, not their enemies.’” (see also Mauss Interview)

Stendahl: “Because what one religious tradition says about another is usually a breach against the commandment, ‘Thou shalt not bear false witness’.”

Madsen: “‘Number two: if you’re going to compare, don’t compare your bests with their worsts, but compare bests with bests.’”

Stendahl: “Most people think of their own tradition as it is at its best and they use caricatures of the others.”

Madsen: “And then number three, he said, ‘Leave room for holy envy’ and then he said, ‘Let me give you an example of my holy envy for the Latter Day Saints: We Lutherans, when we lose our loved ones, we have funerals, we have cemeteries, but that ends our concern with those who have gone before. But the Latter-Day Saints care about their forebearers to the point that they want to bring the blessings of Christ’s atonement to them, so they build temples, and according to Paul’s instruction in First Corinthians, they perform baptisms for the dead,’ and then he smiled and said, ‘I have holy envy for that.’”

Stendahl: “In a world where we finally have learned what I call the “holy envy”, it’s a beautiful thing; I could think of myself as taking part in such an act, extending the blessings that have come to me in and through Jesus Christ. That’s generous, that’s beautiful, and should not be ridiculed or spoken badly of.” Citied from “Between Heaven and Earth” DVD, 2002, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Book of Ruth wrote:If my comments were interpreted as being against anyone, that was absolutely not my intent, and I'm sorry. It is hard to convey conjuncture in writing.

Understood. I apologize for misunderstanding your intent.

One of my very good friends in Sunni. He has attended LDS meetings, and the most common difficulties when investigating the church did not faze him a bit. (i.e. polygamy) He quit understood how the position of the Prophet fell to Brigham Young, and not to Joseph's son. These are points I find interesting because they share a familiar narrative.

Here is my point, is the religion of Islam false? Yes. Is the Catholic church false? Yes. Are they both the "Mother of Abominations"? Yes. Is Satan behind both? Yes. Are there very good people who belong to both of these organizations? Yes. They are both being controled by Satan.

So I don't misunderstand you, are you saying that these organizations, as far as precepts concerned, are 100% false, or are you talking about authority/leadership? I agree with you as far as authority goes, but if you are talking about precepts, then that is where we disagree. I believe there are portions of truth to be found in other religions, and that these can be bridges of understanding (and, therefore, the beginnings of a better relationship) between people of our faith and theirs. I believe as the first presidency stated, that Mohammad was given a 'portion of light,' and that is what I look for in their religion. I do believe that Satan is behind the perverting of truth to bring about the spiritual and physical destruction of God's children. I think he has been very successful with this throughout world history, including, but certainly not limited to, Christian, Judaic, and Islamic nations.

The Fourth Samaritan Revolt against Byzantium (The Byzantine Empire (or Byzantium) was the Eastern Roman Empire during the periods of Late Antiquity and the Middle Ages, centred on the capital of Constantinople. Known simply as the Roman Empire) results in great reduction of the Samaritan community, their Israelite faith is outlawed. Neighbouring Jews, who mostly reside in Galilee, are also affected by the oppressive rule of the Byzantines.
Browning, Robert (1992). The Byzantine Empire. Washington, DC: The Catholic University of America Press. ISBN 0-8132-0754-1.
This happened in 556, before Muhammad was born. Again, to clarify, are you saying that the Samaritans/Jews were the 'problem' the Eastern Roman Empire was having? And that creating Islam is how they attempted to solve it? If so, the conquerors were surely having a problem with the native population, but to jump to the conclusion that Islam is how they solved it is still a jump based on speculation. How do you reconcile your view with this--specifically the part where it says that 'morals truths were given to them by God...':
http://emp.byui.edu/SatterfieldB/FDINT2 ... 01978.html

Islam is the answer to Romes Jewish problems. Haven't you ever wondered why they hate the Jews so much, and that they call for their destruction? How they cannot co-exist? This is same warfare that is constantly used today. Problem, Reaction, Solution. Does your Sunni friend concur with this assessment? Why or why not?

Book of Ruth wrote:There are only 6 billion on the earth.

Book of Ruth wrote:570 AD + 1260 spoken of by Daniel= 1830 Coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Book of Ruth:
Yes, I believe they have a portion of truth, that is what muddies the waters, they do not have the full truth. This is exactly how Satan does it so well, he mixes truth with lies.

This problem was before the coming of the Savior.

Moral truths does not equal true religion.

Dhimmitude: the Islamic system of governing populations conquered by jihad wars, encompassing all of the demographic, ethnic, and religious aspects of the political system. The word "dhimmitude" as a historical concept, was coined by Bat Ye'or in 1983 to describe the legal and social conditions of Jews and Christians subjected to Islamic rule. The word "dhimmitude" comes from dhimmi, an Arabic word meaning "protected". Dhimmi was the name applied by the Arab-Muslim conquerors to indigenous non-Muslim populations who surrendered by a treaty (dhimma) to Muslim domination. Islamic conquests expanded over vast territories in Africa, Europe and Asia, for over a millennium (638-1683). The Muslim empire incorporated numerous varied peoples which had their own religion, culture, language and civilization. For centuries, these indigenous, pre-Islamic peoples constituted the great majority of the population of the Islamic lands. Although these populations differed, they were ruled by the same type of laws, based on the shari'a.

This similarity, which includes also regional variations, has created a uniform civilization developed throughout the centuries by all non-Muslim indigenous people, who were vanquished by a jihad-war and governed by shari'a law. It is this civilization which is called dhimmitude. It is characterized by the different strategies developed by each dhimmi group to survive as non-Muslim entity in their Islamized countries. Dhimmitude is not exclusively concerned with Muslim history and civilization. Rather it investigates the history of those non-Muslim peoples conquered and colonized by jihad.

Dhimmitude encompasses the relationship of Muslims and non-Muslims at the theological, social, political and economical levels. It also incorporates the relationship between the numerous ethno-religious dhimmi groups and the type of mentality that they have developed out of their particular historical condition which lasted for centuries, even in some Muslim countries, till today.

Dhimmitude is an entire integrated system, based on Islamic theology. It cannot be judged from the circumstantial position of any one community, at a given time and in a given place. Dhimmitude must be appraised according to its laws and customs, irrespectively of circumstances and political contingencies.

For books by Bat Ye'or, see http://www.dhimmi.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our Heavenly Father loves all his children and so should we. It should be manifestly evident to members of the Church that our Father loves all of his children. He desires all of them to embrace the gospel and come unto him. Only those are favored who obey him and keep his commandments.

As members of the Lord's church, we need to lift our vision beyond personal prejudices. We need to discover the supreme truth that indeed our Father is no respecter of persons. Sometimes we unduly offend brothers and sisters of other nations by assigning exclusiveness to one nationality of people over another.

We have members of the Church in the Muslim world. These are wonderful Saints, good members of the Church. They live in Iran, Egypt, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, and other countries. Sometimes they are offended by members of the Church who give the impression that we favor only the aims of the Jews. The Church has an interest in all of Abraham's descendants, and we should remember that the history of the Arabs goes back to Abraham through his son Ishmael.

Imagine a father with many sons, each having different temperaments, aptitudes, and spiritual traits. Does he love one son less than another? Perhaps the son who is least spiritually inclined has the father's attention, prayers, and pleadings more than the others. Does that mean he loves the others less? Do you imagine our Heavenly Father loving one nationality of his offspring more exclusively than others? As members of the Church, we need to be reminded of Nephi's challenging question: "Know ye not that there are more nations than one?" (2 Nephi 29:7). (79-01, p. 35)

Love of God and man is the fundamental commandment of Christians. "And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

"And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these." (Mark 12:30-31.)

The logic of this is simple, clear, and unequivocal: the proof of love of God is love of one's brother. This becomes the fundamental commandment of Christianity. This was the religion taught by the Master. How happy would society be were these two plain, rational precepts properly observed: Love me, and love thy fellows.

The living of this commandment by all men would restore peace to the earth. It would cause them to love the Lord and thereby keep his commandments; thus the troubles of our age would vanish, and man's happiness in a moral world would result. (66-03, p. 517)

A cabinet minister of Egypt once told me that if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam, it must be built by the Mormon Church. In making inquiry as to the reason for his statement, I was impressed by his recitation of the similarities and the common bonds of brotherhood.

Both the Jews and the Arabs are children of our Father. They are both children of promise, and as a church we do not take sides. We have love for and an interest in each. The purpose of the gospel of Jesus Christ is to bring about love, unity, and brotherhood of the highest order. Like Nephi of old, may we be able to say, "I have charity for the Jew. I also have charity for the Gentiles." (2 Nephi 33:8, 9.) (79-01, p. 36)

All of mankind share an inheritance of divine light. We believe there is a spiritual influence that emanates from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space (see D&C 88:12). All men share an inheritance of divine light. God operates among his children in all nations, and those who seek God are entitled to further light and knowledge, regardless of their race, nationality, or cultural traditions.

Elder Orson F. Whitney, in a conference address, explained that many great religious leaders were inspired. He said: "[God] is using not only his covenant people, but other peoples as well, to consummate a work, stupendous, magnificent, and altogether too arduous for this little handful of Saints to accomplish by and of themselves.

"All down the ages men bearing the authority of the Holy Priesthood—patriarchs, prophets, apostles and others, have officiated in the name of the Lord, doing the things that he required of them; and outside the pale of their activities other good and great men, not bearing the Priesthood, but possessing profundity of thought, great wisdom, and a desire to uplift their fellows, have been sent by the Almighty into many nations, to give them, not the fulness of the Gospel, but that portion of truth that they were able to receive and wisely use." (In Conference Report, April 1921, pp. 32-33.) (91-04, p. 19)

Love of God and love of our fellowman are inseparable. Eternal life, God's life, the life we are seeking, is rooted in two commandments. The scriptures say that "on these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:40). Love God and love your neighbor. The two work together; they are inseparable. In the highest sense they may be considered as synonymous. And they are commandments that each of us can live. (86-03, p. 34)

It’s been nearly five weeks since I broke the story exclusively at PJ Media: Homeland Security Advisory Council member Mohamed Elibiary downloaded sensitive Texas Department of Public Safety reports from the Homeland Security State and Local Intelligence Community of Interest (HS SLIC) database, then shopped them to at least one left-leaning media outlet. Elibiary claimed the reports represented a pattern of “Islamophobia” under GOP presidential hopeful Rick Perry’s watch.

As I reported, the publication declined to publish anything on the leaked materials — which were marked “For Official Use Only” (FOUO) — after finding that there was no “Islamophobia” to be found. TX DPS Director Steve McCraw confirmed to me that Elibiary had in fact accessed and downloaded his agency’s reports on the HS SLIC. Elibiary also serves on the TX DPS Advisory Council.

In the five weeks since, neither Secretary Napolitano nor the Department of Homeland Security has commented on the matter.

Before publishing the original article, I spoke with DHS spokesman Chris Ortman. After grilling me about the nature of my source, he immediately terminated the conversation after I asked him how and when Elibiary got access to the HS SLIC system, telling me he would have to get back to me.

Needless to say, I’m still waiting for that return phone call, despite follow-up emails.

The questions I am looking to get answered:

1) When did Elibiary get access to the HS SLIC system, and who approved it?

2) Why was Elibiary the only member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council — he is one of 26 members — to get access to that system?

3) What is the status of the investigation requested by TX DPS Director McCraw into Elibiary’s leaking his agency’s documents to the media?

4) What other sensitive government databases did/does Elibiary still have access to, since he works with other agencies (e.g., FBI, National Counterterrorism Center, Office of the Director of National Intelligence)?

5) Is there evidence that Elibiary leaked sensitive documents and reports to other media outlets?

Admittedly, I’m not alone in failing to get answers about the matter. When Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) questioned Napolitano about Elibiary when she was before the House Judiciary Committee the day my initial report appeared, Napolitano feigned ignorance (we know her senior aides had been briefed by TX DPS the night before):

Gohmert: Secretary, were you aware that a week ago today, from his home computer, he accessed the SLIC database, got information off and has been shopping a story to national media on islamophobia … [inaudible] … at the Governor of Texas and the security folks in Texas. Were you aware of that?

Napolitano: No.

Gohmert: I’m telling you, it happened. Do we need to appoint somebody or will you have that investigated yourself, and if so, by whom?

Napolitano: Well, since I don’t know the facts, I’ll have to look into that.

In the video, Napolitano seemed unfazed that one of her top advisers was being accused of leaking sensitive intelligence for partisan political purposes, with corroborating evidence being given by the director of one of the top state homeland security agencies in the country. Was she lying about not knowing? If she wasn’t, it doesn’t speak well of her staff that they failed to inform her. Perhaps that’s something for Congress to take a look at as well.

But it isn’t just Congress that’s being stonewalled on the Elibiary matter.

linj2fly wrote:

Book of Ruth:
Yes, I believe they have a portion of truth, that is what muddies the waters, they do not have the full truth. This is exactly how Satan does it so well, he mixes truth with lies.

Agree with this general statement.

But this is why I brought up the First Presidency's statement, which is saying he received a 'portion of light' and 'moral truths' from God. He did not receive the 'portion' from Satan as you seem to be saying in the above statement and with your thesis that Islam is a creation of the Catholic Church. So which is it? Can it be both? How? As I've said in previous posts, religion is the oft exploited means by which conquest and killing is justified. I know they don't have a pretty picture and neither do we on this account. No argument about this aspect of history, but you have not proven anything beyond conjecture and speculation regarding a Roman Catholic Connection. Is it possible? Maybe. Is it possible that Mohammad was inspired by God (which is already affirmed by the 1st pres so far as light is concerned) and that it devolved from there....yea. It's not like that's an isolated pattern.

This problem was before the coming of the Savior.

(Agreed)

Moral truths does not equal true religion.

I see you have the koolaid in front of you just don't drink it. Any course about Islam given is going to be super kind to their faith so as not to get the death sentence pronounced on them like the guy who did one comic strip about him. Dead. That is a religion of peace of yes. Book of Ruth has more truth than you do my friend. Islam was created by the Roman Empire or the Roman Church to rid themselves of the Jews. All men have the portion of light given to them. Satan has a portion of light for pete sake. You take a small statement and take it way out of proportion (from the first presidency). What little light Islam had it is now buried and gone. They are even now being used to provoke the US and Israel and WWIII is being set up. They are true masters at deception. They have all the money and power and go to the best schools. They make the rules that we have to follow. The US constitution tried to keep Satan at bay but only good men following it will uphold it or else it falls.

---I never argued that....I was merely pointing out from whom he received light...as opposed to some satanic plot/influence from the Roman Catholic church. That is why I asked you to reconcile it. How do you think they can both be true?

by Book of Ruth » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:44 pm
I just have to add my two cents here:

Muhammed- born 570 AD, married wealth Roman Catholic Woman Khadija. They had four daughter one of which was named Fatima. Sound familiar? Yep, the Lady of Fatima who appeared in Fatima Portugal to 3 catholic children. Whom gave the 3 prophecies, 2 have been made public, the last one held by the pope, regarding the last world war.

Muhammed left for Middle East after the death of his wife very wealthy. Then we have the the start of Islam. Funded by the Roman Catholic's. Illumianti!!!

These two groups alone, catholics and muslims are approx. 4 billion people. There are only 6 billion on the earth. They are being highly controled, and the Middle Eastern Anti-Christ and the Roman False Prophet have some pretty strong ties.

570 AD + 1260 spoken of by Daniel= 1830 Coming forth of the Book of Mormon.

Very few people know of this connection, but it's no coincidence. We must preach the gospel to ALL the world.