The Doctrine of Inclusion

[ChemtrailWatcher]

I wanted to share an article that I read today that I found very helpful. I think it's something really important. I find that part of the challenge of keeping a moderation in all things is to be careful not to have an "us vs. them" mentality on a continual basis. By spending too much time debating and maintaining that our opinions and viewpoints are the only correct ones, we lose a certain amount of the Spirit IMO. While there is much good that has come because of the internet, I believe that it has also fostered a lot of division and discord because of the various "groups" that have formed, all with their own biases. By having this constant "angst" against others who see things differently, I believe that we are missing out on much of the beauty in life. Why should we choose to stay in this judgmental realm? I find it really distressing.

Here's the article:

Doctrine of Inclusion
ELDER M. RUSSELL BALLARD
Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
M. Russell Ballard, "Doctrine of Inclusion", Liahona, Jan. 2002, 40–43

If we are truly disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, we will reach out with love and understanding to all of our neighbors at all times.
It may very well have been a beautiful, crisp autumn day like this. The Savior was sitting, teaching some of His disciples, when a man identified only as “a certain lawyer” stood and asked Him, “Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
Jesus knew the man’s heart and understood the question was a thinly veiled attempt to get Him to say something contrary to the law of Moses.
The Savior responded to the question with two questions of His own: “What is written in the law? how readest thou?”
As you might expect, the lawyer was able to recite the law: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.”
“Thou hast answered right,” the Savior said. “This do, and thou shalt live.”
But the lawyer wasn’t satisfied with that. Knowing that there were strict rules and beliefs among the Jews regarding association with those not of the faith, he pressed the Lord for more information, hoping to trap Him in controversy: “And who is my neighbour?” he asked.
It was time, once again, to teach. Jesus drew upon one of His favorite and most effective teaching techniques: a parable, perhaps one of the most-beloved and well-known parables in all of Christendom.
You know the parable, how a man from Jerusalem was on his way to Jericho and fell among thieves and was left half dead. A certain priest passed by on the other side; neither did a Levite stop to help. Then Jesus taught:
“But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

“And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.”
Then Jesus asked the lawyer one more question: “Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among thieves?”
And the lawyer replied: “He that shewed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus delivered His final instruction to the lawyer—and to all who have read the parable of the good Samaritan: “Go, and do thou likewise” (see Luke 10:25–37).
Every time I read this parable I am impressed with its power and its simplicity. But have you ever wondered why the Savior chose to make the hero of this story a Samaritan? There was considerable antipathy between the Jews and the Samaritans at the time of Christ. Under normal circumstances, these two groups avoided association with each other. It would still be a good, instructive parable if the man who fell among thieves had been rescued by a brother Jew.
His deliberate use of Jews and Samaritans clearly teaches that we are all neighbors and that we should love, esteem, respect, and serve one another despite our deepest differences—including religious, political, and cultural differences.
That instruction continues today to be part of the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In enumerating the key doctrines of the restored Church, Joseph Smith said, while “we claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience,” we also “allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may” (A of F 1:11).

Thankfully, many of our members understand this doctrine and live it during the course of their daily lives. I recently read a news account of a tragic death in a community here in Utah. A grieving young widow was quoted: “We’ve been overwhelmed by support. We’re not Mormon, but the local ward here has been all over us with meals and help and words of comfort. It’s been a total outpouring of love, and we appreciate it” (quoted in Dick Harmon, “Former Ute’s Death Leaves Wife Coping, Wondering,” Daily Herald [Provo, Utah], 11 Aug. 2001, A3).

That’s just as it should be. If we are truly disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ, we will reach out with love and understanding to all of our neighbors at all times, particularly in times of need. A recent Church News carried a story of two women who are dear friends, a “Jewish physician from New York and [a] stay-at-home [Latter-day Saint] mom of six from Utah, both a long way from home in Dallas [Texas].”

Our member reported: “If our friendship had been put through a computer matching service, I doubt we would have made it past the first hurdle. …

“… A woman with a busy medical practice, I assumed, would have little desire to discuss the color of the hospitality napkins for PTA.

“Funny thing about assumptions—they can cut away the very roots of something that could flourish and grow if given a chance. I am forever grateful that assumptions were cast aside” (Shauna Erickson, “Unlikely Friends Sharing a Lifetime,” Church News, 18 Aug. 2001, 10).
Perceptions and assumptions can be very dangerous and unfair. There are some of our members who may fail to reach out with friendly smiles, warm handshakes, and loving service to all of their neighbors. At the same time, there may be those who move into our neighborhoods who are not of our faith who come with negative preconceptions about the Church and its members. Surely good neighbors should put forth every effort to understand each other and to be kind to one another regardless of religion, nationality, race, or culture.
Occasionally I hear of members offending those of other faiths by overlooking them and leaving them out. This can occur especially in communities where our members are the majority. I have heard about narrow-minded parents who tell children that they cannot play with a particular child in the neighborhood simply because his or her family does not belong to our Church. This kind of behavior is not in keeping with the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. I cannot comprehend why any member of our Church would allow these kinds of things to happen. I have been a member of this Church my entire life. I have been a full-time missionary, twice a bishop, a mission president, a Seventy, and now an Apostle. I have never taught—nor have I ever heard taught—a doctrine of exclusion. I have never heard the members of this Church urged to be anything but loving, kind, tolerant, and benevolent to our friends and neighbors of other faiths.
The Lord expects a great deal from us. Parents, please teach your children and practice yourselves the principle of inclusion of others and not exclusion because of religious, political, or cultural differences.
While it is true we declare to the world that the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth through the Prophet Joseph Smith and we urge our members to share their faith and testimonies with others, it has never been the policy of the Church that those who choose not to listen or to accept our message should be shunned or ignored. Indeed, the opposite is true. President Gordon B. Hinckley has repeatedly reminded us of this special obligation that we have as followers of the Lord Jesus Christ. I quote just one:
“Each of us is an individual. Each of us is different. There must be respect for those differences. …
“… We must work harder to build mutual respect, an attitude of forbearance, with tolerance one for another regardless of the doctrines and philosophies which we may espouse. Concerning these you and I may disagree. But we can do so with respect and civility” (Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley [1997], 661, 665).
As members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we understand that we are perceived by some to be “a peculiar people” (1 Pet. 2:9). Our doctrines and beliefs are important to us. We embrace them and cherish them. I am not suggesting for a moment that we shouldn’t. On the contrary, our peculiarity and the uniqueness of the message of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ are indispensable elements in offering the people of the world a clear choice. Neither am I suggesting that we should associate in any relationship that would place us or our families at spiritual risk. We must understand, however, that not everyone is going to accept our doctrine of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For the most part, our neighbors not of our faith are good, honorable people—every bit as good and honorable as we strive to be. They care about their families, just like we do. They want to make the world a better place, just like we do. They are kind and loving and generous and faithful, just like we seek to be. Nearly 25 years ago, the First Presidency declared: “Our message … is one of special love and concern for the eternal welfare of all men and women, regardless of religious belief, race, or nationality, knowing that we are truly brothers and sisters because we are sons and daughters of the same Eternal Father” (First Presidency statement, 15 Feb. 1978).
That is our doctrine—a doctrine of inclusion. That is what we believe. That is what we have been taught. Of all people on this earth, we should be the most loving, the kindest, and the most tolerant because of that doctrine.
May I suggest three simple things we can do to avoid making others in our neighborhoods feel excluded?
First, get to know your neighbors. Learn about their families, their work, their views. Get together with them, if they are willing, and do so without being pushy and without any ulterior motives. Friendship should never be offered as a means to an end; it can and should be an end unto itself. I received a letter from a woman who recently moved to Utah, a small part of which I quote: “I must tell you, Elder Ballard, that when I greet my neighbors, or if I wave to them, they do not acknowledge my greeting. If I pass them while taking my morning or evening walk, my salutation is not returned. Other people of color consistently express similar negative responses to friendly gestures.” If members of the Church are among her neighbors, surely they must know that this should not happen. Let us cultivate meaningful relationships of mutual trust and understanding with people from different backgrounds and beliefs.
Second, I believe it would be good if we eliminated a couple of phrases from our vocabulary: “nonmember” and “non-Mormon.” Such phrases can be demeaning and even belittling. Personally, I don’t consider myself to be a “non-Catholic” or a “non-Jew.” I am a Christian. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. That is how I prefer to be identified—for who and what I am, as opposed to being identified for what I am not. Let us extend that same courtesy to those who live among us. If a collective description is needed, then “neighbors” seems to work well in most cases.
And third, if neighbors become testy or frustrated because of some disagreement with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or with some law we support for moral reasons, please don’t suggest to them—even in a humorous way—that they consider moving someplace else. I cannot comprehend how any member of our Church can even think such a thing! Our pioneer ancestors were driven from place to place by uninformed and intolerant neighbors. They experienced extraordinary hardship and persecution because they thought, acted, and believed differently from others. If our history teaches us nothing else, it should teach us to respect the rights of all people to peacefully coexist with one another.
I now speak to all those who are not of our faith. If there are issues of concern, let us talk about them. We want to be helpful. Please understand, however, that our doctrines and teachings are set by the Lord, so sometimes we will have to agree to disagree with you, but we can do so without being disagreeable. In our communities we can and must work together in an atmosphere of courtesy, respect, and civility. Here in Utah, a group of concerned citizens formed the Alliance for Unity. This effort has been endorsed by our Church as well as other churches and organizations. One of its purposes is “to seek to build a community where differing viewpoints are acknowledged and valued.” Perhaps there has never been a more important time for neighbors all around the world to stand together for the common good of one another.
Just hours before He began the painful physical and spiritual processes of the Atonement, the Savior met with His Apostles to partake of the Feast of the Passover—His Last Supper—and to give them the final instructions He would give them in mortality. Among these teachings is the stirring, life-changing declaration: “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
“By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another” (John 13:34–35).
That is what Jesus taught His disciples—including “a certain lawyer”—through the parable of the good Samaritan. And that is what He is teaching us today through living prophets and apostles. Love one another. Be kind to one another despite our deepest differences. Treat one another with respect and civility. I know and testify that Jesus is the Christ, our Savior and Redeemer, and I know that He expects all of us to follow His admonition to be better neighbors, to which I testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

I know that many will have rebuttals to this, but I don't wish to enter a debate. I'm posting this article as a suggestion of something to consider. If you have a rebuttal, you're free to give it, but I for myself choose not to get into an argument about it.

I will say one more thing, however. I have noticed lots of the mentality of exclusion on this forum. One example is when new people decide to join the forum. There is a tendency to be immediately distrustful of new forum members. It seems that they have to prove themselves in some way and show that they have similar mentalities before they are treated with kindness. I have noticed many who joined the forum, entered a conversation and were immediately shut down. I have then noticed that those new members never returned. To me this is a shame.

[ChemtrailWatcher]

Here's another article that expresses my feelings right now:

Unity in Diversity
BY ELDER JOHN K. CARMACK
Of the Seventy
John K. Carmack, "Unity in Diversity", Ensign, Mar. 1991, 7
In a worldwide church, becoming one does not mean becoming the same.
When I arrived home in Santa Barbara, California, after my tour of duty for the United States Army in Seoul, Korea, my first step in preparing for graduate school at the University of California, at Los Angeles was to move into the Los Angeles Stake. The year was 1957. The stake, without any of us knowing it, was about to complete an era as an ordinary California stake with leadership coming from men and women with Intermountain roots and membership consisting of members mostly with northern European ancestry. An occasional Jewish convert and a few Latin American converts could be seen in the congregations, but they were more the exception than the norm. President John M. Russon would soon end a successful and lengthy term as stake president, deeply respected by a stake that was homogeneous in its makeup. Little did we realize the revolution that awaited the stake in the three decades that followed. More of that later.
Let me skip ahead to 1988. The Museum of Church History and Art had just promoted an international art contest among Church artists around the world. Art in any form with any gospel-related theme was accepted. The success of the contest was greater than we had anticipated. In 1988, the Ensign printed photographs of many contest entries from around the world. These and others not printed constituted a visual delight for the Church. Art entries from many parts of the world lined the museum’s walls during the months scheduled for their exhibition. Some are still there, timeless and priceless in their messages.
These works of art were richly diverse and varied. Art pieces of European craftsmanship with symbolic themes were hanging beside colorful and imaginative canvases from Latin America, a variety of gospel themes painted by island members, and a collage of forms and art styles from all parts of North America. Simple, direct, and realistic renditions were exhibited side by side with abstract, impressionistic, and thoughtful symbolic representations of gospel themes. Those fortunate enough to view the exhibit were rewarded by a delightful, unified, and exciting display of art and talent. The presence and influence of the Savior permeated the museum and greeted its guests.
What unified the diverse entries? What kept the exhibit from being a disjointed hodgepodge of amateurish hangings? The restored gospel of Jesus Christ linked and unified those works of art. Their cultural diversity was the strength and universal appeal of the exhibit. Attendance soared as many visitors came back again and again. Had art from only one culture and area been dominant, the excitement would have been significantly less.
That international art contest mirrored the unity and diversity that today often greet us in the congregations of the Saints. The early Christian Saints also came face-to-face with diversity. It was not easy for them either, and success in assimilating the many cultures varied. They did not have the many unifying factors we enjoy—such as instant communication, multinational business corporations, travel among continents, and a potpourri of books and magazines. But they found a way to create one church of those early converts from many lands.
Whether we recognize it or not, diversity is now a part of the Church, and it is increasing daily. If our experience in linking and unifying diverse membership is as successful as our art contest, an institution of color, beauty, and deep spiritual unity can develop. To succeed, we will need unifying ideas taught by thoughtful leaders. Stakes and wards whose members are imbued with flexibility and openness to greet and make welcome the diverse membership, putting brothers and sisters to work in meaningful service, will hasten the unification process. “All are needed by each one; Nothing is fair or good alone.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson, “Each and All,” in The Complete Writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson, New York: Wm. H. Wise and Co., 1929, p. 837.)
We do not need to go far to find an example to inspire us. Early settlers in the United States were also rich in diversity. Most came from Europe. Swedes settled in Delaware, the Dutch founded Pennsylvania, French Huguenots sought freedom from religious persecution, Germans came escaping the military draft, the Pilgrims sought a separate religious society, and the Irish were seeking relief from famine and landlords. Others came as paupers, criminals, sailors, soldiers, laborers, rogues, and adventurers. Out of all this diversity, a nation emerged. Leaders of intelligence and character, still a wonder to those of us who study their trials and achievements, were equal to the challenges of creating a constitution and a nation that would marry principles of freedom and the dignity and rights of man to unparalleled economic opportunity and an expanding frontier. The melting pot became a nation that has endured more than two hundred years under the same constitution, amended only twenty-six times.
Now, back to the Los Angeles Stake and the halcyon ’50s. There was only one clear minority found in the stake. President Joe “F” Brandenburg presided over his beloved southern California Branch for the Deaf. That small branch was the delight of the stake when I arrived. The Relief Society Singing Mothers thrilled us with their beautiful rhythmic singing of the hymns in stake conference. The stake had many challenges, but true diversity was yet ahead.
Events began to reshape the stake and the region of Southern California. President John K. Edmunds decided to send a pair of missionaries to labor with the deaf. Elders Wayne Bennett and Jack Rose led the branch to new heights. President Brandenburg became a bishop. The ward was divided several times, and deaf branches began meeting in other stakes.
Over in Korea in the early ’50s, events were playing out that would eventually change the Los Angeles Stake. As war enveloped that ancient land, impervious to Western influence and missionary work up to that time, gospel seeds were being planted by Latter-day Saint servicemen who lived their religion as they performed military duties. At the same time, Kim Ho Jik was pursuing his doctorate at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. Trapped in a long separation from his family in Korea by the war, his tears of concern wet his pillow by night. In that circumstance and mood he was impressed by the good works and doctrine of Latter-day Saint friends. He joined the Church and became the first elder of the Church from the Korean culture. Returning to Korea after the war, he became vice minister of education for the country and the presiding elder among the Korean Saints.
Soon Latter-day Saint missionaries replaced servicemen in leadership positions, and the missionaries began teaching the gospel in the Korean language. As a member of the military, I was there to meet Elders Powell and Deton, the first elders to arrive in Seoul. Branches, districts, and missions led to wards, stakes, and a temple. Hundreds of thousands of Koreans, including some of the Saints, emigrated to the United States and other countries. Many joined the Church in their new countries. Both at home and abroad, Koreans became a part of the worldwide Church, changing and enriching its tapestry. Many came into the Los Angeles Stake, where a Korean branch was formed. East was beginning to meet West—and this time in the West.
This dramatic change wrought in the wake of war was repeated in other lands, scattering Vietnamese, Hmongs, Cambodians, and many others throughout the world. The winds of tribulation blew these people from east to west and, as a result, doors of opportunity for receiving the gospel flew open. Latin America and the Philippines were likewise opened wide for the gospel, and many of these people came to the United States seeking economic opportunities for their families. Both in their own lands and in the United States, they came into the congregations of the Saints. Suddenly the congregations of the Los Angeles Stake—used here as an example—were dotted with many cultures. Oakland and San Diego stakes followed the same pattern. Leaders did their best to create unified congregations of Saints who loved, accepted, and served one another. Some foreign-language units were organized.
A few of the “old guard” grumbled, and many moved to the suburbs. Some longed for the old days. In 1978 blacks joined the congregations in far greater numbers, and things became even more varied. Leaders, using stake and ward conferences and other windows of opportunity, taught doctrines of love, acceptance of all, and unity. A new spirit of excitement swept through the Saints. As Sister Pinkston, then Relief Society president of Los Angeles Stake’s Wilshire Ward, observed, “these are the days of excitement and glory, not the days when we were all of European descent.”
Many watched Los Angeles, Oakland, Chicago, London, and other major cities become international population centers and wondered about the future. Soon it became apparent that this pattern was being repeated in scores of stakes near major population centers. Today, whether it be in Washington, D.C., Sao Paulo, Sydney, or Hyde Park, this diversity greets traveling Church members. It is as thrilling as it is enriching. It presents a multitude of challenges, but it is working well wherever leaders catch the vision of what is happening.
The question of whether there is a unifying force powerful enough to overcome the divisive elements of diversity is answered with a resounding yes! Inspired and energetic leaders are required. Where there is vision, the people respond. The doctrine is in place. Jesus Christ is the cornerstone of the Church, and all who join are “no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God.” (Eph. 2:19.) The prophet of God gives us a single authoritative voice on matters of doctrine and practice. Priesthood authority granted to men gives them the right to baptize, bestow the Holy Ghost, and bless our congregations with unity without robbing us of our diversity. Authoritative scriptures contain the word of God to guide us. Basic gospel ordinances, weekly sacrament meetings, temple blessings, and a universal priesthood and Relief Society are available. The gospel is centered in homes, and the work of spreading the gospel through missionary service and temple service for our deceased ancestors keeps all members involved, providing a dynamic, action-filled life for the Saints. Undergirding everything, the Holy Ghost unifies all who live worthily to receive and magnify its gifts.
Despite these simple and unifying doctrines and practices, there are some barriers to creating a greater unity amid our diversity. These barriers include racial and cultural discrimination and attitudes of separatism. The gospel is marvelously sufficient to create the desired unity, but people are imperfect. Discomfort because of language barriers, fear of accepting those with differences in skin color, alienation of singles—all have created barriers to unity. Usually, this mistreatment, isolation, and discrimination is self-justified by the use of labels. Labeling a fellow Church member an intellectual, a less-active member, a feminist, a South African, an Armenian, a Utah Mormon, or a Mexican, for example, seemingly provides an excuse to mistreat or ignore that person. These problems and many more need to be addressed if we are to create a society such as that which Enoch created.
As we become one with God, we will become one with each other. As we become one with each other, we will become one with God.
This unity, which should come naturally, often comes painfully, a step at a time—“Line upon line, precept upon precept.” It took a graphic revelation for Peter to say, aha! “Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” (Acts 10:34–35.)
Some of us, like Paul, take easily and naturally to the concept of accepting all as alike. As a people we, like the Los Angeles Stake, are not doing badly with this imperative to create unity of many cultures. But we can do much more to enjoy the cultural diversity of our brothers and sisters. It may require a greater change in attitude, building on our many commonalities, but we must learn to appreciate the differences in others. The future will bring much, much more cultural diversity into the Church, and all who come deserve to have friends and leaders like Paul.
Simplification of organization, process, and worship, allowing a return to what is basic and fundamental, seems also to be coming. Change, all being accomplished in wisdom and order, is sweeping the Church. The new budget program is an example of this simplification.
Experience teaches me that we must work hard at creating unity in diversity. We must push on that door with active and strong leadership. Unity in diversity will not happen if we let nature take its course. Isolation and discrimination are still capable of surfacing in every location of the Church. We each need to assign ourselves as a “committee of one” to create the attitudes of inclusion, acceptance, and unity wherever we find ourselves. It needs to be a high priority with us. We especially need leaders to show the way by precept and example. Each of us should be fair to everyone, especially the victims of discrimination, isolation, and exclusion. Let us be careful not to snicker at jokes that demean and belittle others because of religious, cultural, racial, national, or gender differences. All are alike unto God. We should walk away or face up to the problem when confronted with these common and unworthy practices. Each should do his or her part.
With the opening of new missions in South and Central America, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Hungary, and Poland, and with new countries dedicated for the preaching of the gospel, we continue at a breathtaking pace to become a church serving most of the world. Racial, cultural, and national diversity will inevitably continue. It is a great day! We will, like the Los Angeles Stake, be enriched thereby.
May we look for every opportunity, therefore, to decrease isolation, increase inclusion of all, and enrich our lives with this diversity of human sociality within the bonds of unifying doctrinal beliefs. Like the international art exhibit of the Church museum, let us find linkage through love and through Christ and His gospel. May the happy result be the emergence of unity in diversity. May we enjoy the happy circumstance of the Book of Mormon era when there were not to be found “any manner of -ites.” (4 Ne. 1:17.)

[ChemtrailWatcher]

I'm bumping this because it appears that it got largely ignored.

It appears that this topic is less relevant than learning all the details on how to get your calling and election made sure, finding out what President Packer was holding when he talked to some missionaries at the MTC, debating whether or not Santa is really Satan in disguise, and deciding if people without a year's supply should be excluded from Zion. (And yes, I'm using sarcasm....) 8)

[Rensai]

I'm bumping this because it appears that it got largely ignored.

It appears that this topic is less relevant than learning all the details on how to get your calling and election made sure, finding out what President Packer was holding when he talked to some missionaries at the MTC, debating whether or not Santa is really Satan in disguise, and deciding if people without a year's supply should be excluded from Zion. (And yes, I'm using sarcasm....) 8)

Hey, its important to determine exactly who Santa is. He gives presents, which is not like Satan, but on the other hand, he does wear red, and everyone knows Satan is partial to red. It's a conundrum and we have to get to the bottom of this!

I've noticed that the topics where people can argue their opinion are the ones that get the most attention. So your first mistake was saying that you didn't want to debate. Then, you posted two great talks from GA's that really don't leave much room for argument, so where's the fun in that? I read the talks, they are great. Other than saying I agree with them, I don't know what else to say. If we can't argue over something what's the point of posting? What else is the forum for? If you don't want your topic ignored you need to post something we can debate! Say something really offensive, like how much you enjoyed watching the twilight movies and you'll see very quickly that your posts are not being ignored! Dozens of people will quickly tell you exactly how wrong you are! If you don't leave me room to assert the superiority of my opinion over yours then don't bother posting at all! You've been here long enough to know how this works, its time to fall in line! Anyway, sorry, I seem to have digressed, what was your post about again?

[ChemtrailWatcher]

I've noticed that the topics where people can argue their opinion are the ones that get the most attention. So your first mistake was saying that you didn't want to debate. Then, you posted two great talks from GA's that really don't leave much room for argument, so where's the fun in that? I read the talks, they are great. Other than saying I agree with them, I don't know what else to say. If we can't argue over something what's the point of posting? What else is the forum for? If you don't want your topic ignored you need to post something we can debate! Say something really offensive, like how much you enjoyed watching the twilight movies and you'll see very quickly that your posts are not being ignored! Dozens of people will quickly tell you exactly how wrong you are! If you don't leave me room to assert the superiority of my opinion over yours then don't bother posting at all! You've been here long enough to know how this works, its time to fall in line! Anyway, sorry, I seem to have digressed, what was your post about again?

I know.... I did say I didn't want to debate it. I don't really want to "debate" it, but I thought a little discussion might be nice.

I did quickly realize that I gave the thread the wrong title. If I had said something like:
"Hey Guys: You're all Getting Shut Out of Zion except ME!!" -- that might have gotten people's attention.

[Rensai]

I've noticed that the topics where people can argue their opinion are the ones that get the most attention. So your first mistake was saying that you didn't want to debate. Then, you posted two great talks from GA's that really don't leave much room for argument, so where's the fun in that? I read the talks, they are great. Other than saying I agree with them, I don't know what else to say. If we can't argue over something what's the point of posting? What else is the forum for? If you don't want your topic ignored you need to post something we can debate! Say something really offensive, like how much you enjoyed watching the twilight movies and you'll see very quickly that your posts are not being ignored! Dozens of people will quickly tell you exactly how wrong you are! If you don't leave me room to assert the superiority of my opinion over yours then don't bother posting at all! You've been here long enough to know how this works, its time to fall in line! Anyway, sorry, I seem to have digressed, what was your post about again?

I know.... I did say I didn't want to debate it. I don't really want to "debate" it, but I thought a little discussion might be nice.

I did quickly realize that I gave the thread the wrong title. If I had said something like:
"Hey Guys: You're all Getting Shut Out of Zion except ME!!" -- that might have gotten people's attention.

Ooh I like that title. Now your getting it, except that your wrong of course, I will be the only one in Zion, not you!

[ChelC]

we do like to express our opinions don't we? My husband hates politics, so I have to get my angst out here by rehashing things a billion times.

The articles are great. I'm sure most of these problems wouldn't exist face to face. On one hand we are commanded to bring to life bringing to light those hidden things of darkness. It's a lonesome road, especially when we're just waking to the reality of our situation. However, Satan will use whatever means he can to get after us. Can't tempt you with distractions? Fine. He'll make you despise people who are. He'll puff you up with pride until you've alienated your family members. Now he's gotten you to do something worse!

We always have to be on guard.

[ChemtrailWatcher]

The articles are great. I'm sure most of these problems wouldn't exist face to face. On one hand we are commanded to bring to life bringing to light those hidden things of darkness. It's a lonesome road, especially when we're just waking to the reality of our situation. However, Satan will use whatever means he can to get after us. Can't tempt you with distractions? Fine. He'll make you despise people who are. He'll puff you up with pride until you've alienated your family members. Now he's gotten you to do something worse!

We always have to be on guard.

Very Very True.

[ChelC]

Sorry for the typos. I was posting from the iPod while my kiddo did his typing lesson. Tiny keyboard.

[ChemtrailWatcher]

Sorry for the typos. I was posting from the iPod while my kiddo did his typing lesson. Tiny keyboard.

Hey, no problem. I have to get off here and get some work done today with my kids too!