The single most common affliction of mankind: possession by evil spirits

[Robin Hood]

A few years ago, my bishop cast out several unclean spirits from me. When I felt them leave me, it changed my life. I spent the next three plus years researching the phenomenon of possession by evil spirits. When it came to possession, what I took for granted as “truth” melted away like the morning dew. Almost everything I thought was true turned out to be nothing more than belief in the wisdom of the world. What I did learn about evil spirits completely changed the way I looked at the world.

After all my research, I have come to the conclusion that possession by evil spirits is the single most common affliction of mankind. I wrote an extensive treatise on the subject of evil spirits based on what I found. It is heavily referenced with a couple hundred quotes from various prophets and general authorities starting with Joseph Smith and up to the present day. The treatise also contains an appendix of over 100 pages of quotes on the subject of evil spirits, inherited lies, and discernment.

Some of the things I learned is that possession is extremely common and that this was officially taught by the Church. I have copies of two Sunday school lesson plans for the Young Women that state this. I also have copies of Deseret News articles that talk about how to not become possessed. I also learned that a lot of our physical and mental illnesses are caused by evil spirits. Not all, but a lot. There are many members who say, “If you talk about evil spirits, you'll bring them about.” That is a total myth born out of fear. Evil spirits already surround us every moment of our lives. Talking about them won't bring them about; they are already here.

Before commenting on this subject, I would strongly recommend you read the treatise. You'll be very surprised what is in it. If you want to download a copy of the treatise, you can do it here:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 26&t=43440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read your paper on this subject and would concur with you.
I would however suggest that priesthood authority is not always required in order to make unclean spirits leave. There are, I believe, two other ways this can occur.
1. A direct intervention by God through the Holy Ghost.
2. Personal righteousness which has the effect of rendering the host tabernacle unappealing to the unclean spirits so they will leave in order to pursue their lusts elsewhere.

I would also suggest that possession is not a 24/7 thing. The unclean spirits likely have a number of favourite tabernacles on their rounds, and flit from one to another as occasion requires.
This is why James spoke the truth when he said that if we resist the devil he will flee from us. They're not going to waste time and effort when they encounter fierce resistence if there is another willing host they can go to. The story of the herd of swine is a case in point.

[h_p]

My wife has cast them out before. I believe, though I'm not certain, that the best person to cast out an evil spirit would be the one that's being tormented.

[JohnnyL]

A few years ago, my bishop cast out several unclean spirits from me. When I felt them leave me, it changed my life. I spent the next three plus years researching the phenomenon of possession by evil spirits. When it came to possession, what I took for granted as “truth” melted away like the morning dew. Almost everything I thought was true turned out to be nothing more than belief in the wisdom of the world. What I did learn about evil spirits completely changed the way I looked at the world.

After all my research, I have come to the conclusion that possession by evil spirits is the single most common affliction of mankind. I wrote an extensive treatise on the subject of evil spirits based on what I found. It is heavily referenced with a couple hundred quotes from various prophets and general authorities starting with Joseph Smith and up to the present day. The treatise also contains an appendix of over 100 pages of quotes on the subject of evil spirits, inherited lies, and discernment.

Some of the things I learned is that possession is extremely common and that this was officially taught by the Church. I have copies of two Sunday school lesson plans for the Young Women that state this. I also have copies of Deseret News articles that talk about how to not become possessed. I also learned that a lot of our physical and mental illnesses are caused by evil spirits. Not all, but a lot. There are many members who say, “If you talk about evil spirits, you'll bring them about.” That is a total myth born out of fear. Evil spirits already surround us every moment of our lives. Talking about them won't bring them about; they are already here.

Before commenting on this subject, I would strongly recommend you read the treatise. You'll be very surprised what is in it. If you want to download a copy of the treatise, you can do it here:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 26&t=43440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read your paper on this subject and would concur with you.
I would however suggest that priesthood authority is not always required in order to make unclean spirits leave. There are, I believe, two other ways this can occur.
1. A direct intervention by God through the Holy Ghost.
2. Personal righteousness which has the effect of rendering the host tabernacle unappealing to the unclean spirits so they will leave in order to pursue their lusts elsewhere.

I would also suggest that possession is not a 24/7 thing. The unclean spirits likely have a number of favourite tabernacles on their rounds, and flit from one to another as occasion requires.
This is why James spoke the truth when he said that if we resist the devil he will flee from us. They're not going to waste time and effort when they encounter fierce resistence if there is another willing host they can go to. The story of the herd of swine is a case in point.

3. Other ways. Read up on therapists et. al. doing this work with good results. Of course, for certain people, this is anathema, but of course I like to look at the results, not debate ignorantly about how no doubt these therapists are wrested God's authority and are using it wrong to do something "good," which is really something bad.

[Yahtzee]

/Doctrine and Covenants Section 50
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, May 9, 1831. Joseph Smith’s history states that some of the elders did not understand the manifestations of different spirits abroad in the earth and that this revelation was given in response to his special inquiry on the matter. So-called spiritual phenomena were not uncommon among the members, some of whom claimed to be receiving visions and revelations.

Doctrine and Covenants 50 is excellent summary on spirits and discernment.

This is how the Spirit helped me understand:

Everything we do invites one kind of spirit or another. Evil spirits cannot stand to be in the presence of the Holy Ghost.

We can do many things to invite the Holy Ghost: always have a prayer in our heart, read the scriptures, serve righteously.

There are many things we can do to drive him away much of which involves our thoughts and actions that are out of harmony with the gospel.

I pray daily: 1 to thank the Lord for his protection and then 2. to ask him to send his angels to guard round about my family and property to protect us from physical and spiritual danger. Even though I often use the same words, I do this with a sincere heart.

Some time ago I was having trouble: I was watching a tv show with my husband that I knew wasn't great, but it was kind of interesting and I was trying to spend time with him doing what he wanted.

Thinking about the show was invading my mental down time (you know, driving, doing dishes, whatever when your mind just drifts.)

I realized that I should stop watching the show, but I started wanting to see it and couldn't get rid of some of the images and thoughts. I asked the Lord for help and this is what I saw in my mind:

I was in a small circular room with many doors. Behind one door was Satan. It had a chain lock on it and a doorknob with a lock as well. He would stand behind the door and try to get me to open it in many ways. Sometimes he would just knock normally. Sometimes he would talk quietly :"Hey I have a funny story to tell you." Sometimes he would bang on the door and shout.

By opening the door just a smidge, enough to hear his story (think the tv show I shouldn't watch) he would put his foot in the door so I couldn't close it. I still had the chain lock, but I couldn't shut the door tight.

When I prayed and asked for help I was told I didn't have the power to shut the door again. I asked for the Lord's help and the Savior came through one of the other doors. He shut the door that Satan was at and then told me that I should not open the door again because he would not be as quick to respond now that I knew better and he had helped me.

I think of that often now: we must be very careful what doors we open in our lives. Some we can close ourselves, but some we can't. And once the Lord has helped us, once we know a door should stay closed, we are more accountable not to open it again.

This applies to any addiction, any temptation, any sin. Open the door to the Savior and leave it closed to Satan. Satan cannot open those doors, he can only tempt us to open them for him.

Wow! This imagery is so helpful to me. I really struggle with the desire to give up my "pet" sins. Basically every time I indulge, I'm opening that door wider for Satan and that is NOT an image I want to see.
Thank you!!

[Robin Hood]

A few years ago, my bishop cast out several unclean spirits from me. When I felt them leave me, it changed my life. I spent the next three plus years researching the phenomenon of possession by evil spirits. When it came to possession, what I took for granted as “truth” melted away like the morning dew. Almost everything I thought was true turned out to be nothing more than belief in the wisdom of the world. What I did learn about evil spirits completely changed the way I looked at the world.

After all my research, I have come to the conclusion that possession by evil spirits is the single most common affliction of mankind. I wrote an extensive treatise on the subject of evil spirits based on what I found. It is heavily referenced with a couple hundred quotes from various prophets and general authorities starting with Joseph Smith and up to the present day. The treatise also contains an appendix of over 100 pages of quotes on the subject of evil spirits, inherited lies, and discernment.

Some of the things I learned is that possession is extremely common and that this was officially taught by the Church. I have copies of two Sunday school lesson plans for the Young Women that state this. I also have copies of Deseret News articles that talk about how to not become possessed. I also learned that a lot of our physical and mental illnesses are caused by evil spirits. Not all, but a lot. There are many members who say, “If you talk about evil spirits, you'll bring them about.” That is a total myth born out of fear. Evil spirits already surround us every moment of our lives. Talking about them won't bring them about; they are already here.

Before commenting on this subject, I would strongly recommend you read the treatise. You'll be very surprised what is in it. If you want to download a copy of the treatise, you can do it here:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 26&t=43440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read your paper on this subject and would concur with you.
I would however suggest that priesthood authority is not always required in order to make unclean spirits leave. There are, I believe, two other ways this can occur.
1. A direct intervention by God through the Holy Ghost.
2. Personal righteousness which has the effect of rendering the host tabernacle unappealing to the unclean spirits so they will leave in order to pursue their lusts elsewhere.

I would also suggest that possession is not a 24/7 thing. The unclean spirits likely have a number of favourite tabernacles on their rounds, and flit from one to another as occasion requires.
This is why James spoke the truth when he said that if we resist the devil he will flee from us. They're not going to waste time and effort when they encounter fierce resistence if there is another willing host they can go to. The story of the herd of swine is a case in point.

3. Other ways. Read up on therapists et. al. doing this work with good results. Of course, for certain people, this is anathema, but of course I like to look at the results, not debate ignorantly about how no doubt these therapists are wrested God's authority and are using it wrong to do something "good," which is really something bad.

No, I don't believe that.

[Spaced_Out]

No true - don't give the evil spirits that much credit, it is our free agency and natural man that is our affliction.

If only the PH can cast out devils then one has to believe that all men and woman who do not have the PH are possessed and incapable of doing any good or overcoming sin, addiction without the PH. Total nonsense.

We are placed on earth where the war between good and evil continues, and it continues in each of us and we progress depending on which voice we listing to. No devil has power over a mortal without us allowing it to occur. The scriptures and teachings in the temple are sure. The biggest affliction of mankind is mortal weakness where we give into the natural man.

Mankind are capable of great sin of our own free will, sometimes our sins even make the devil cower. People give far to much power to evil spirits and constantly blame the devil - he made me do it. It is our own free agency.

Doctrine and Covenants 123:10
10 Which dark and blackening deeds are enough to make hell itself shudder, and to stand aghast and pale, and the hands of the very devil to tremble and palsy.

[LdsMarco]

Although, what you're saying has SOME truth to it. I can't help myself to be reminded about Job (the scriptures have described Noah, Seth, and Job as perfect men), and that is that God 'allowed' Satan to afflict Job. No where did it say that Job 'allowed' evil spirits to afflict him because of the natural man. It was actually God that allowed it.

Every situation is different and I would suggest to read up on Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's teachings regarding evil spirits.

[JohnnyL]

A few years ago, my bishop cast out several unclean spirits from me. When I felt them leave me, it changed my life. I spent the next three plus years researching the phenomenon of possession by evil spirits. When it came to possession, what I took for granted as “truth” melted away like the morning dew. Almost everything I thought was true turned out to be nothing more than belief in the wisdom of the world. What I did learn about evil spirits completely changed the way I looked at the world.

After all my research, I have come to the conclusion that possession by evil spirits is the single most common affliction of mankind. I wrote an extensive treatise on the subject of evil spirits based on what I found. It is heavily referenced with a couple hundred quotes from various prophets and general authorities starting with Joseph Smith and up to the present day. The treatise also contains an appendix of over 100 pages of quotes on the subject of evil spirits, inherited lies, and discernment.

Some of the things I learned is that possession is extremely common and that this was officially taught by the Church. I have copies of two Sunday school lesson plans for the Young Women that state this. I also have copies of Deseret News articles that talk about how to not become possessed. I also learned that a lot of our physical and mental illnesses are caused by evil spirits. Not all, but a lot. There are many members who say, “If you talk about evil spirits, you'll bring them about.” That is a total myth born out of fear. Evil spirits already surround us every moment of our lives. Talking about them won't bring them about; they are already here.

Before commenting on this subject, I would strongly recommend you read the treatise. You'll be very surprised what is in it. If you want to download a copy of the treatise, you can do it here:

http://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopi ... 26&t=43440" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have read your paper on this subject and would concur with you.
I would however suggest that priesthood authority is not always required in order to make unclean spirits leave. There are, I believe, two other ways this can occur.
1. A direct intervention by God through the Holy Ghost.
2. Personal righteousness which has the effect of rendering the host tabernacle unappealing to the unclean spirits so they will leave in order to pursue their lusts elsewhere.

I would also suggest that possession is not a 24/7 thing. The unclean spirits likely have a number of favourite tabernacles on their rounds, and flit from one to another as occasion requires.
This is why James spoke the truth when he said that if we resist the devil he will flee from us. They're not going to waste time and effort when they encounter fierce resistence if there is another willing host they can go to. The story of the herd of swine is a case in point.

3. Other ways. Read up on therapists et. al. doing this work with good results. Of course, for certain people, this is anathema, but of course I like to look at the results, not debate ignorantly about how no doubt these therapists are wrested God's authority and are using it wrong to do something "good," which is really something bad.

No, I don't believe that.

Doesn't matter--it happens. Results talk.

[Robin Hood]

I have read your paper on this subject and would concur with you.
I would however suggest that priesthood authority is not always required in order to make unclean spirits leave. There are, I believe, two other ways this can occur.
1. A direct intervention by God through the Holy Ghost.
2. Personal righteousness which has the effect of rendering the host tabernacle unappealing to the unclean spirits so they will leave in order to pursue their lusts elsewhere.

I would also suggest that possession is not a 24/7 thing. The unclean spirits likely have a number of favourite tabernacles on their rounds, and flit from one to another as occasion requires.
This is why James spoke the truth when he said that if we resist the devil he will flee from us. They're not going to waste time and effort when they encounter fierce resistence if there is another willing host they can go to. The story of the herd of swine is a case in point.

3. Other ways. Read up on therapists et. al. doing this work with good results. Of course, for certain people, this is anathema, but of course I like to look at the results, not debate ignorantly about how no doubt these therapists are wrested God's authority and are using it wrong to do something "good," which is really something bad.

No, I don't believe that.

Doesn't matter--it happens. Results talk.

Perhaps you could give us an example of a therapist casting out an unclean spirit.

[JohnnyL]

3. Other ways. Read up on therapists et. al. doing this work with good results. Of course, for certain people, this is anathema, but of course I like to look at the results, not debate ignorantly about how no doubt these therapists are wrested God's authority and are using it wrong to do something "good," which is really something bad.

No, I don't believe that.

Doesn't matter--it happens. Results talk.

Perhaps you could give us an example of a therapist casting out an unclean spirit.

Some parts of the books can be read online, and some of the reviews have info, too:
https://www.amazon.com/Remote-depossess ... 915689081/

https://www.amazon.com/Unquiet-Dead-Psy ... 345460871/

https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Releaseme ... 92991516X/

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Releasement ... 983753318/

https://www.amazon.com/Freeing-Captives ... 571741364/

https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lost-Sou ... 001HZZ0KM/

https://www.amazon.com/Remarkable-Heali ... 571740791/

For more, search "spirit releasement therapy".

[Robin Hood]

No, I don't believe that.

Doesn't matter--it happens. Results talk.

Perhaps you could give us an example of a therapist casting out an unclean spirit.

Some parts of the books can be read online, and some of the reviews have info, too:
https://www.amazon.com/Remote-depossess ... 915689081/

https://www.amazon.com/Unquiet-Dead-Psy ... 345460871/

https://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Releaseme ... 92991516X/

https://www.amazon.com/Soul-Releasement ... 983753318/

https://www.amazon.com/Freeing-Captives ... 571741364/

https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lost-Sou ... 001HZZ0KM/

https://www.amazon.com/Remarkable-Heali ... 571740791/

For more, search "spirit releasement therapy".

I didn't ask for a list of books containing the philosophies of men, I asked for an example.

[MMbelieve]

If we can bring upon ourselves evil spirits through our personal choices and thought processes, can't we then remove these evil spirits through our correct choices and thoughts?

Bad spirits are like velcro, if you provide the right surface, they will stick to you. Get rid of the surface and they cannot stay attatched.

I believe that we can absolutely have power over these spirits as well as power over temptation in general through our thoughts, words and deeds.

If we create a "nice place" for them to dwell then we attract them for sure. If we are always negative and diminishing ourselves and our worth, living in negativity and depression then I believe we attract those spirits that are like unto it and that causes us to remain in this depression thinking that we will never get out. There is some added depression to your own negative thoughts from these spirits that are hanging around.

The priesthood is important for sure and can produce miracles, I'm bringing up the power that we have to either bring in or keep at bay those spirits that do not help us progress.

In this belief, I extend the idea that we can also assist each other on this. If we are kind and comforting to someone troubled by these spirits, I believe that as their afflictions become validated and healed, that the spirits lose power and control over the person. This is how we can help others. Just bearing one another's burdens is so very beneficial at keeping and even getting rid of bad spirits influencing each of us.

[EmmaLee]

This thread is great for showing one of the main reasons why people who want the Holy Ghost with them, as opposed to evil spirits, will not allow immorality into their homes - such as allowing two same-sex people to sleep together, or two unmarried opposite-sex people to sleep together, in your home. I can't think of anything that would "attract" bad spirits into a person's home more than either of those situations. And porn being watched in the home, of course - but I can't imagine anyone who would knowingly allow fornication in their home would have a problem with porn.

[Spaced_Out]

Although, what you're saying has SOME truth to it. I can't help myself to be reminded about Job (the scriptures have described Noah, Seth, and Job as perfect men), and that is that God 'allowed' Satan to afflict Job. No where did it say that Job 'allowed' evil spirits to afflict him because of the natural man. It was actually God that allowed it.

Every situation is different and I would suggest to read up on Joseph Smith and Brigham Young's teachings regarding evil spirits.

It is the purpose of life to be tempted and tried by affliction. Satan is part of the purpose. This thread is typical hobby donkey where the author latches onto one small minor principle of the gospel and makes it out to be all encompassing to the point that the church leaders and the members are wrong and following teachings of men etc, etc,,

It is taken way out of control any person has power over evil spirits by making righteous choices. We are only living in shadows there is no true darkness where there is light darkness cant prevail and flees from its presence. Bring truth and light into a persons life and darkness flees. We have power to crush the head and the devils only have power to burse the ankle.

[Michelle]

While I agree that for normal temptations, as a general rule, personally repenting and a return to righteous living is enough.

But just like some sins can only be overcome by speaking with priesthood leadership (like many sexual sins), some evils, like possession, can only be overcome by priesthood power.

As a young adult I lived in a stake that had General Authorities visit and give a special fireside. I did not attend as my parents didn't encourage such things, but on Sunday we were given a recap by our youth leaders.

The basic idea: they had been sent to our area because many people, and youth, were engaging in occult activities like astral planing. We were told a spirit cannot take control of your body without your permission. However, if you choose have your spirit leave your body, there are many spirits who don't have a body who will come and take possession of it. You are still connected to your body, but you cannot make them leave and they have control over it. It requires priesthood power to cast them out. It is not a game.

I hope I am not wrong in sharing this on such a public forum.

[BackBlast]

If we can bring upon ourselves evil spirits through our personal choices and thought processes, can't we then remove these evil spirits through our correct choices and thoughts?

This is a partial understanding.

You are correct that evil is granted power over a soul through poor choices. And that through the atonement and repentance this can be reversed.

There is also power granted unto them to cause men to stumble, to bruise his heal, even when no poor choice was made. This can take the form of various afflictions, attacks, possessions, mental or physical illness. Personal righteousness does not, of itself, remove this. Evidences to this effect are in the scriptures, and that I have personal experience of, devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

Though we are granted some power of ourselves over them, using the Lord's name and power is a much more sure way to purge or displace them.

[Spaced_Out]

.....devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

A person born with genetic weaknesses or a chronic disease has nothing to do with devils - devils cant alter our DNA or cause birth defects as the scriptures are clear there is enmity placed - those so called afflictions is nothing more than mortality - if a person is born with bad eye sight or hearing it is simply a birth defect there is no devil - there is no devil biting onto the person eyeball - the same with all other afflictions of the flesh.
One cant simply attribute these things to devils, they have no power over those before the age of accountability.

Those before the age of accountability can be greedy, throw temper tantrums like the so called terrible two's where children try to assert their own authority but have to learn that the world is bigger than them. These are simply lessons of mortality as we try to understand the sweet and bitter the good and bad and start to overcome the natural man. Devils and daemons have nothing to do with this it is a make up of our "spiritual development prior to coming to earth" and the weaknesses of the natural body.

The devil has nothing to do with our physical afflictions other than tempting us to make bad choices that may negatively affect our mortal body.

[Spaced_Out]

These are the methods Satan and his devils use to tempt and destroy man and bring them down into the chains of hell - none of it is by spiritual possession of the body. It is simply false to make a statement like "The single most common affliction of mankind: possession by evil spirits"

2Nephi 28:19 For the kingdom of the devil must shake, and they which belong to it must needs be stirred up unto repentance, or the devil will grasp them with his everlasting chains, and they be stirred up to anger, and perish;
20 For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good.
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.
22 And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none—and thus he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from whence there is no deliverance.
23 Yea, they are grasped with death, and hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.

Alma 12
9 And now Alma began to expound these things unto him, saying: It is given unto many to know the mysteries of God; nevertheless they are laid under a strict command that they shall not impart only according to the portion of his word which he doth grant unto the children of men, according to the heed and diligence which they give unto him.
10 And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.
11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.

[MMbelieve]

If we can bring upon ourselves evil spirits through our personal choices and thought processes, can't we then remove these evil spirits through our correct choices and thoughts?

This is a partial understanding.

You are correct that evil is granted power over a soul through poor choices. And that through the atonement and repentance this can be reversed.

There is also power granted unto them to cause men to stumble, to bruise his heal, even when no poor choice was made. This can take the form of various afflictions, attacks, possessions, mental or physical illness. Personal righteousness does not, of itself, remove this. Evidences to this effect are in the scriptures, and that I have personal experience of, devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

Though we are granted some power of ourselves over them, using the Lord's name and power is a much more sure way to purge or displace them.

I see what you are saying.
I didn't mean to imply that those who are being troubled are to be judged as bringing it upon themselves, I had a different thought in mind when stating what I did.
You bring a valid addition with your statement.

[MMbelieve]

.....devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

A person born with genetic weaknesses or a chronic disease has nothing to do with devils - devils cant alter our DNA or cause birth defects as the scriptures are clear there is enmity placed - those so called afflictions is nothing more than mortality - if a person is born with bad eye sight or hearing it is simply a birth defect there is no devil - there is no devil biting onto the person eyeball - the same with all other afflictions of the flesh.
One cant simply attribute these things to devils, they have no power over those before the age of accountability.

Those before the age of accountability can be greedy, throw temper tantrums like the so called terrible two's where children try to assert their own authority but have to learn that the world is bigger than them. These are simply lessons of mortality as we try to understand the sweet and bitter the good and bad and start to overcome the natural man. Devils and daemons have nothing to do with this it is a make up of our "spiritual development prior to coming to earth" and the weaknesses of the natural body.

The devil has nothing to do with our physical afflictions other than tempting us to make bad choices that may negatively affect our mortal body.

They do have the ability to affect people before the age of 8. I can attest to this truth. My brother was affected as a child to the point he was put on medications to remedy his abnormal physical symptoms. The meds did nothing and my mother was inspired to just take him off the medications. When he received the priesthood, the symptoms he suffered for may years completely stopped.

He would see spirits and be haunted by the devil to the point that he didn't know what was real or imagined anymore as it all was real to him. He was being attacked and was an innocent child.

Receiving the priesthood put a stop to all of it. There was no medical explanation for why his problems ceased.

Another example is when my son of 4 months was crying and crying one night because of an evil spirit in the home. My husband was up with him in the night and could sense this evil spirit as soon as he questioned to know what was wrong with our child. The evil spirit was revealed to him and he cast him out, as soon as he did that our son calmed down immediately and was fine. We had a pretty haunted apartment room and had many experiences there for which we did not bring in ourselves.

[BackBlast]

.....devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

A person born with genetic weaknesses or a chronic disease has nothing to do with devils - devils cant alter our DNA or cause birth defects as the scriptures are clear there is enmity placed - those so called afflictions is nothing more than mortality - if a person is born with bad eye sight or hearing it is simply a birth defect there is no devil - there is no devil biting onto the person eyeball - the same with all other afflictions of the flesh.
One cant simply attribute these things to devils, they have no power over those before the age of accountability.

Those before the age of accountability can be greedy, throw temper tantrums like the so called terrible two's where children try to assert their own authority but have to learn that the world is bigger than them. These are simply lessons of mortality as we try to understand the sweet and bitter the good and bad and start to overcome the natural man. Devils and daemons have nothing to do with this it is a make up of our "spiritual development prior to coming to earth" and the weaknesses of the natural body.

The devil has nothing to do with our physical afflictions other than tempting us to make bad choices that may negatively affect our mortal body.

I can't find any counter evidence of my claims in your rebuttal. The only point you really contradict me on is the interaction of devils with the those who are not yet accountable and since you cannot prove a negative with evidences, you must rely on scripture declaring it so. Which you did not provide.

Please note that there is a distinction between afflict and tempt.

Clearly you want me to flesh out the evidence of my point, so I will do so.

Evidence of physical afflictions

Job 2:7

7 ¶ So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

This is very much a physical ailment, and directly attributed to an afflicting devil, in cannon scripture. I would not go so far as to claim that all physical ailments are caused by demonic affliction. Also note that in Job's case, he wasn't afflicted because of sin or any real kind of choice on his part. It is simply part of being a fallen man and a trial that we sometimes must pass through.

Mark 9:20-21

20 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.

21 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child.

I understand this statement, of a child, to mean very very young. Some even believe it to mean infant.

I have, personally, experienced an attack from a devil when 5 years old. Similar to the one described in some of Joseph Smith's first vision accounts. Attacks which have continued from time to time through my life and as best as I can tell, they had nothing to do with sin or choice or "allowing" them on my part. I have met others who experience the same, though seldom do people who experience this share it. It is a very taboo topic in today's world.

[Thinker]

...don't give the evil spirits that much credit, it is our free agency and natural man that is our affliction.

If only the PH can cast out devils then one has to believe that all men and woman who do not have the PH are possessed and incapable of doing any good or overcoming sin, addiction without the PH. Total nonsense. ...

People give far to much power to evil spirits and constantly blame the devil - he made me do it. It is our own free agency.

I agree. And I also see the immense power of belief - for good or bad. I realize that it can be difficult to realize, but as God is experienced within us, so is the adversary. We have potential either way. But if you have no idea who the enemy is - how can you defend yourself? It might seem to some as such a simply petty thing to just look within themselves and see their weakness - notice their bad habits etc - but I think some are so overwhelmed at just the idea - that they go to great lengths to avoid such soul-searching. And the result is evil. Evil is not making mistakes - we are meant to make mistakes, to sin, to miss the mark. Evil is denying one's mistake and trying to shift the blame.

[Thinker]

.....devils who afflict individuals before they can be tempted or before they reach accountability. Pure souls, yet they suffer such affliction. In my experience there is purpose in the ways and methods these afflictions are allowed to assist in shaping people. Also that such affliction should not be used as a sign of sin - this will lead to poor judgment.

A person born with genetic weaknesses or a chronic disease has nothing to do with devils - devils cant alter our DNA or cause birth defects as the scriptures are clear there is enmity placed - those so called afflictions is nothing more than mortality - if a person is born with bad eye sight or hearing it is simply a birth defect there is no devil - there is no devil biting onto the person eyeball - the same with all other afflictions of the flesh.
One cant simply attribute these things to devils, they have no power over those before the age of accountability.

I'm glad that it's noted by both that disability-type affliction should not be condemned. Still, I cannot help but remember the story of Jesus and the man who was lowered into the house in need of healing...

"And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.
And Jesus knowing their thoughts said, Wherefore think ye evil in your hearts?
For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
And he arose, and departed to his house."

I have come to redefine sin as "incorrect thought and consequence emotion and action" - so the usual shame-based way of thinking of sin is actually sin (incorrect thought) itself. "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he" - as we think affects our bodies, souls and hearts!

I believe we are given tasks or challenges to do that we can handle in this life - and it's unique for each which is why we can't really compare and condemn others. I also believe that each of us, especially children who have been hurt physically, sexually, spiritually or other ways - have immense spiritual help available - all that is needed is our will to ask for it and receive it.

[Spaced_Out]

The BOM does teach that no person can be heal or do miracles unless he is clean of all sin. Also many times it is not God’s will that we should be healed. Like the apostle Paul of old who had a thorn in the flesh – it was never taken from him.
As to spirits possessing children – yeah I don’t buy it and if in some mysterious way was possible it is only very temporary. Very very minor percentage of the world’s population even know about the PH yet one does not see children possessed by daemons in the world. If one looks deep enough there is always a medical reason.
Possession by a daemon has never happened to me or any family or extended member – it is not a common affliction.
Job in the old testament language is different than what we use today and JST also clarifies a lot of the issues about the temptations. As the story goes Satan had to ask permission from God to temp and try Job they way he was afflicted again not a common issue affecting mankind.
Much of the New testament casting out devils was simply resolving a medical problem that they did not have the technology to understand or resolve so it was considered an unclean spirit, and as it requires righteousness to be healed by the PH or for God to intervene it is to an extent that one has to overcome sin and cast out ‘devils’ mortal weakness prior to being healed.

[BackBlast]

The BOM does teach that no person can be heal or do miracles unless he is clean of all sin. Also many times it is not God’s will that we should be healed. Like the apostle Paul of old who had a thorn in the flesh – it was never taken from him.
As to spirits possessing children – yeah I don’t buy it and if in some mysterious way was possible it is only very temporary. Very very minor percentage of the world’s population even know about the PH yet one does not see children possessed by daemons in the world. If one looks deep enough there is always a medical reason.
Possession by a daemon has never happened to me or any family or extended member – it is not a common affliction.
Job in the old testament language is different than what we use today and JST also clarifies a lot of the issues about the temptations. As the story goes Satan had to ask permission from God to temp and try Job they way he was afflicted again not a common issue affecting mankind.
Much of the New testament casting out devils was simply resolving a medical problem that they did not have the technology to understand or resolve so it was considered an unclean spirit, and as it requires righteousness to be healed by the PH or for God to intervene it is to an extent that one has to overcome sin and cast out ‘devils’ mortal weakness prior to being healed.

So.... scriptural mention of devils and possession is really a medical issue? And such narratives are misguided and they are really healing instead of dealing with unseen spiritual beings? You clearly have a very very different view of scriptural accounts than I do, and I hesitate to continue this discussion with such a difference.