Modern Missionary Work

[drtanner]

Would love to know who is having success sharing the gospel and how they are finding people to share with. Please share this seems to be a really important topic.

Also would love to hear about those of you who were successful full time missionaries in terms of teaching repentance and baptizing converts. How did you find? What advice would you give to current missionaries?

[JohnnyL]

Almost none anymore, other than service.

I am so ticked at the numbers game and drive, I can't do it anymore. I could relate negative experience after negative experience, and very few positive ones.

I tried.

[gardener4life]

Family History is missionary work too. Good point C.A. on temple ordinances.

Missionary work isn't about numbers. It's about love. If you have love for Christ and love the people you try to help then its beautiful and wonderful. This is why people love missionary work. That feeling stays with them. Keeping numbers was just a way to try to reach the Lord's goal of having the gospel preached in all the world.

[JohnnyL]

Family History is missionary work too. Good point C.A. on temple ordinances.

Missionary work isn't about numbers. It's about love. If you have love for Christ and love the people you try to help then its beautiful and wonderful. This is why people love missionary work. That feeling stays with them. Keeping numbers was just a way to try to reach the Lord's goal of having the gospel preached in all the world.

Missionary work is SUPPOSED to be about love, not numbers. I have rarely experienced that at any stage, in any calling. Seventies want to look good, mission presidents want to look good, stake presidents want to look good, missionaries want to look good--and everyone receives pressure from above.

There are three main problem areas: numbers/ goals, teaching, and on-boarding.

The apostles came out years ago: no more baptism goals. Did anything change? Did goals change to things you had much more control over? Etc.? No. Preach My Gospel has baptismal guidelines that are not followed, because numbers are more important than obedience. No one cares much about retention, it's all about baptisms.

New book, Preach My Gospel, "wonderful", "great", "so much better", etc. In some ways, yes, but in others, no way! Are the discussions better? From my experience, no, they are actually much worse.

On-boarding is why 1/10 of members remain active a year later, and ever fewer five years later. What is the brilliance in baptizing 10 people, to have only one remain active??

By the way, the missionaries were over a week or two ago--and it was about numbers/ baptisms, with little concern or caring about the person.

[drtanner]

I agree its not about the numbers its about bringing souls to Christ, as many as we possible can:

D&C 18:16 And now, if your joy will be great with one soul that you have brought unto me into the kingdom of my Father, how great will be your joy if you should bring many souls unto me!

Can a person really be converted who is not doing everything in their power to bring souls to Christ? Do you think the problem is in the condition of the people in the world or our lack of effort (conversion) in / to the gospel?

Surely there are more people on this forum that are having success in missionary work?

[Arandur]

I had an interesting experience recently - maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but still relevant I think.

It was a rough day. I had stuff to do, and I really just wanted to be alone for a while. I felt inspired to go to a ward activity that I frankly had neither the inclination nor the time to attend. Thankfully, I decided to follow the prompting and go. After loitering for a while, I noticed someone had been sitting alone and not doing anything. I said hi and asked their name. Turns out this person was a convert of less than a year who was visiting friends in the area and feeling overwhelmed and out of place. Long story short, we chatted for quite a while, they were able to get a lot off their chest about some negative aspects of the church's culture. We talked about some of those problems, talked about the gospel for a bit, and by the end they seemed much more comfortable.

It wasn't a "missionary" experience in the sense of playing a role in someone getting baptized, or even attempting to do so. But it very well could have been a missionary experience in the sense of playing a role in someone's ongoing conversion, and baptism's only one step in the larger conversion process. Most importantly, it was a valuable experience in doing the Lord's will and getting to participate in His work in some small, unexpected way. I don't know that this person was on the brink of inactivity or anything, but it felt significant. If nothing else, I know I benefited from the conversation a great deal.

[Robin Hood]

Recruiting new members and conducting missionary work have become conflated.
We think they're the same thing, but they are not.
Recruiting new members is all about selling and marketing a product.
Missionary work is about warning the people and calling them to repentence. Samuel the Lamanite didn't need a smartphone!

I think the missionary programme has lost it's way to a certain extent. We seem to be operating as a recruitment agency.
And when someone is taught by the missionaries, they're baptised and then, in effect, dumped on the ward. The reason I say this is that it is normal these days for people to join the church who have no idea about chastity, the word of wisdom, Joseph Smith, tithing etc. Seriously!
They clearly haven't been taught properly, yet they passed the baptismal interview with the district leader.
The reason?......numbers!

Personally, I think the baptismal interview should be conducted by the local leadership. The bishop or branch president, or maybe the WML. From my experience most of the people the missionaries have "converted" in our ward over the last few years wouldn't have made it passed this interview if I had conducted it.
Despite our best efforts none of them are active in the church now.

[Silver]

Family History is missionary work too. Good point C.A. on temple ordinances.

Missionary work isn't about numbers. It's about love. If you have love for Christ and love the people you try to help then its beautiful and wonderful. This is why people love missionary work. That feeling stays with them. Keeping numbers was just a way to try to reach the Lord's goal of having the gospel preached in all the world.

Missionary work is SUPPOSED to be about love, not numbers. I have rarely experienced that at any stage, in any calling. Seventies want to look good, mission presidents want to look good, stake presidents want to look good, missionaries want to look good--and everyone receives pressure from above.

There are three main problem areas: numbers/ goals, teaching, and on-boarding.

The apostles came out years ago: no more baptism goals. Did anything change? Did goals change to things you had much more control over? Etc.? No. Preach My Gospel has baptismal guidelines that are not followed, because numbers are more important than obedience. No one cares much about retention, it's all about baptisms.

New book, Preach My Gospel, "wonderful", "great", "so much better", etc. In some ways, yes, but in others, no way! Are the discussions better? From my experience, no, they are actually much worse.

On-boarding is why 1/10 of members remain active a year later, and ever fewer five years later. What is the brilliance in baptizing 10 people, to have only one remain active??

By the way, the missionaries were over a week or two ago--and it was about numbers/ baptisms, with little concern or caring about the person.

Your negative attitude towards the Church would change if you gave up that unholy energy healing. Elder Ballard is trying to get through to you. Give him a chance.

[gardener4life]

I also agree that most people are definitely not thinking numbers. A lot of the comments here are going too much about negativity. And trying to justify not being involved.

Think about it. If people are led and guided by the spirit to help and find people, then there is love and a right way of doing things. And there is the spirit and they are finding people still. And there is that pattern still working. If we were wicked or corrupt then it wouldn't be working. Would the Lord let us still find people if we weren't doing what we should? If that's the case and it is then how can your comments practically almost say that the missionary program is no good. We know that missionary work is divinely inspired. And it is.

It does harm to only say negative things about missionary work. There's always going to be a bad apple here or there in any organization. But that doesn't mean all the apples are bad. And claiming all the apples are bad simply isn't true.

And further the gospel and answers to prayers are both collective and individual. There will always be a need for reaching out to people individually. It will always be about individuals and even the gospel plan all the way up to resurrection and eternal life will always have and need individually based answers, tailor made answers for each persons for their future, and their future alone.

That's why we'll always have missionary work, except for when wars get too big to need a short break between.

[Dave62]

What does the term "on-boarding" mean?

[diligently seeking]

Working with a few young men at my work who want to serve missions. All 3 of them are generally clueless about the significance of why it is important to be born of god / converted themselves. It is very rewarding to see and feel with all 3 of them the affects of the holy spirit bring joy to their souls as they realize the Gospel of Jesus Christ is meant to be so much more for them.


"Yes, Christ changes men, and changed men can change the world.
Men changed for Christ will be captained by Christ. Like Paul they will be asking, “Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?” (Acts 9:6.) Peter stated, they will “follow his steps.” (1 Pet. 2:21.) John said they will “walk, even as he walked.” (1 Jn. 2:6.)
Finally, men captained by Christ will be consumed in Christ. To paraphrase President Harold B. Lee, they set fire in others because they are on fire. (Stand Ye in Holy Places, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1974, p. 192.)
Their will is swallowed up in His will. (See John 5:30.)
They do always those things that please the Lord. (See John 8:29.)
Not only would they die for the Lord, but more important they want to live for Him.
Enter their homes, and the pictures on their walls, the books on their shelves, the music in the air, their words and acts reveal them as Christians.
They stand as witnesses of God at all times, and in all things, and in all places. (See Mosiah 18:9.)
They have Christ on their minds, as they look unto Him in every thought. (See D&C 6:36.)
They have Christ in their hearts as their affections are placed on Him forever. (See Alma 37:36.)
Almost every week they partake of the sacrament and witness anew to their Eternal Father that they are willing to take upon them the name of His Son, always remember Him, and keep His commandments. (See Moro. 4:3.)
In Book of Mormon language, they “feast upon the words of Christ” (2 Ne. 32:3), “talk of Christ” (2 Ne. 25:26), “rejoice in Christ” (2 Ne. 25:26), “are made alive in Christ” (2 Ne. 25:25), and “glory in [their] Jesus” (2 Ne. 33:6.)
In short, they lose themselves in the Lord, and find eternal life. (See Luke 17:33.)
President David O. McKay tells of a singular event that happened to him. After falling asleep, he said he “beheld in vision something infinitely sublime.” He saw a beautiful city, a great concourse of people dressed in white, and the Savior.
“The city, I understood, was his. It was the City Eternal; and the people following him were to abide there in peace and eternal happiness.
“But who were they?
“As if the Savior read my thoughts, he answered by pointing to a semicircle that then appeared above them, and on which were written in gold the words:
“These Are They Who Have Overcome the World—Who Have Truly Been Born Again!
“When I awoke, it was breaking day.” (Cherished Experiences from the Writings of President David O. McKay, comp. Clare Middlemiss, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1976, pp. 59–60.)
When we awake and are born of God, a new day will break and Zion will be redeemed.
May we be convinced that Jesus is the Christ, choose to follow Him, be changed for Him, captained by Him, consumed in Him, and born again I pray in the name of Jesus Christ, amen."

President Benson

[JohnnyL]

I had an interesting experience recently - maybe not exactly what you're looking for, but still relevant I think.

It was a rough day. I had stuff to do, and I really just wanted to be alone for a while. I felt inspired to go to a ward activity that I frankly had neither the inclination nor the time to attend. Thankfully, I decided to follow the prompting and go. After loitering for a while, I noticed someone had been sitting alone and not doing anything. I said hi and asked their name. Turns out this person was a convert of less than a year who was visiting friends in the area and feeling overwhelmed and out of place. Long story short, we chatted for quite a while, they were able to get a lot off their chest about some negative aspects of the church's culture. We talked about some of those problems, talked about the gospel for a bit, and by the end they seemed much more comfortable.

It wasn't a "missionary" experience in the sense of playing a role in someone getting baptized, or even attempting to do so. But it very well could have been a missionary experience in the sense of playing a role in someone's ongoing conversion, and baptism's only one step in the larger conversion process. Most importantly, it was a valuable experience in doing the Lord's will and getting to participate in His work in some small, unexpected way. I don't know that this person was on the brink of inactivity or anything, but it felt significant. If nothing else, I know I benefited from the conversation a great deal.

It's absolutely a missionary experience--missionaries are to stay with converts until they receive all the blessings of the gospel, as Preach My Gospel says. Converts can't do that by sitting alone at an activity and having negative things they need to discuss, especially if they haven't been to the temple for endowments (and sealings). One of the on-boarding problems--I had two district leaders reply "he's baptized, he's your problem now" when I asked for insight into and help with new converts' problems (months apart).

[JohnnyL]

Recruiting new members and conducting missionary work have become conflated.
We think they're the same thing, but they are not.
Recruiting new members is all about selling and marketing a product.
Missionary work is about warning the people and calling them to repentence. Samuel the Lamanite didn't need a smartphone!

I think the missionary programme has lost it's way to a certain extent. We seem to be operating as a recruitment agency.
And when someone is taught by the missionaries, they're baptised and then, in effect, dumped on the ward. The reason I say this is that it is normal these days for people to join the church who have no idea about chastity, the word of wisdom, Joseph Smith, tithing etc. Seriously!
They clearly haven't been taught properly, yet they passed the baptismal interview with the district leader.
The reason?......numbers!

Personally, I think the baptismal interview should be conducted by the local leadership. The bishop or branch president, or maybe the WML. From my experience most of the people the missionaries have "converted" in our ward over the last few years wouldn't have made it passed this interview if I had conducted it.
Despite our best efforts none of them are active in the church now.

I had the perfect solution for that... The mission president and missionaries have the authority to decide when the person gets baptized, but... the local leaders have the authority to decide when a person receives the gift of the Holy Ghost. And a person is not "counted as baptized" unless both are done. So the bishop can interview the person after baptism by water and ascertain their worthiness and conversion and decide if they receive the gotHG. If not, it doesn't happen, and it doesn't count as a baptism.
Can't tell you how many times someone got baptized, and the bishopric had little to no clue who they were. An actual explanation: "Well, she came to RS one time for 20 minutes, but she had to leave early." NOT what Preach My Gospel says!! They are to come to multiple meetings. It was all about numbers.

[JohnnyL]

What does the term "on-boarding" mean?

Their transition from baptized to new convert, and new convert to convert. Understanding and getting used to church doctrine, living the commandments, church culture, remaining faithful, etc.

[JohnnyL]

Family History is missionary work too. Good point C.A. on temple ordinances.

Missionary work isn't about numbers. It's about love. If you have love for Christ and love the people you try to help then its beautiful and wonderful. This is why people love missionary work. That feeling stays with them. Keeping numbers was just a way to try to reach the Lord's goal of having the gospel preached in all the world.

Missionary work is SUPPOSED to be about love, not numbers. I have rarely experienced that at any stage, in any calling. Seventies want to look good, mission presidents want to look good, stake presidents want to look good, missionaries want to look good--and everyone receives pressure from above.

There are three main problem areas: numbers/ goals, teaching, and on-boarding.

The apostles came out years ago: no more baptism goals. Did anything change? Did goals change to things you had much more control over? Etc.? No. Preach My Gospel has baptismal guidelines that are not followed, because numbers are more important than obedience. No one cares much about retention, it's all about baptisms.

New book, Preach My Gospel, "wonderful", "great", "so much better", etc. In some ways, yes, but in others, no way! Are the discussions better? From my experience, no, they are actually much worse.

On-boarding is why 1/10 of members remain active a year later, and ever fewer five years later. What is the brilliance in baptizing 10 people, to have only one remain active??

By the way, the missionaries were over a week or two ago--and it was about numbers/ baptisms, with little concern or caring about the person.

Your negative attitude towards the Church would change if you gave up that unholy energy healing. Elder Ballard is trying to get through to you. Give him a chance.

Maybe if you opened your heart to good things, you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Give the truth a chance.

[JohnnyL]

I also agree that most people are definitely not thinking numbers. A lot of the comments here are going too much about negativity. And trying to justify not being involved.

Think about it. If people are led and guided by the spirit to help and find people, then there is love and a right way of doing things. And there is the spirit and they are finding people still. And there is that pattern still working. If we were wicked or corrupt then it wouldn't be working. Would the Lord let us still find people if we weren't doing what we should? If that's the case and it is then how can your comments practically almost say that the missionary program is no good. We know that missionary work is divinely inspired. And it is.

It does harm to only say negative things about missionary work. There's always going to be a bad apple here or there in any organization. But that doesn't mean all the apples are bad. And claiming all the apples are bad simply isn't true.

And further the gospel and answers to prayers are both collective and individual. There will always be a need for reaching out to people individually. It will always be about individuals and even the gospel plan all the way up to resurrection and eternal life will always have and need individually based answers, tailor made answers for each persons for their future, and their future alone.

That's why we'll always have missionary work, except for when wars get too big to need a short break between.

gardener4life,

Yes, people would still be found. It's called browbeating/ bullying, and I've seen it multiple times. Our recent bishop complained (and he's not a complainer, this is the only thing I ever heard him complain about after half a year of leadership meetings) about this--he would have someone begging for the discussions after feeling the Spirit so strongly with him, and then after meeting with the missionaries for 2-4 weeks, ask them to not come by anymore. And then the ones that would come back to talk to him told him the same thing--so much pressure to get baptized, so little Spirit.

Negativity? Do you know what it does to a ward when 80 unprepared people get baptized in one year, and then dumped on you? Do you know what it's like when the mission president sets a goal of 500 baptisms in one year, and the missionaries surpass it, and they are SO GREAT--and then 50 people are still active a year later? A big problem is when new baptisms get in the way of conversion. Do you know that Elder Oaks had fewer baptisms, but 100% retention when he was in the Philippines (which had one of the lowest retention rates in the world)--and almost nothing he did for that has been implemented in the missionary program? I could go on and on. Yes, negativity, you are right, are you starting to understand??


We pray with intent for the missionaries.

[Silver]

Family History is missionary work too. Good point C.A. on temple ordinances.

Missionary work isn't about numbers. It's about love. If you have love for Christ and love the people you try to help then its beautiful and wonderful. This is why people love missionary work. That feeling stays with them. Keeping numbers was just a way to try to reach the Lord's goal of having the gospel preached in all the world.

Missionary work is SUPPOSED to be about love, not numbers. I have rarely experienced that at any stage, in any calling. Seventies want to look good, mission presidents want to look good, stake presidents want to look good, missionaries want to look good--and everyone receives pressure from above.

There are three main problem areas: numbers/ goals, teaching, and on-boarding.

The apostles came out years ago: no more baptism goals. Did anything change? Did goals change to things you had much more control over? Etc.? No. Preach My Gospel has baptismal guidelines that are not followed, because numbers are more important than obedience. No one cares much about retention, it's all about baptisms.

New book, Preach My Gospel, "wonderful", "great", "so much better", etc. In some ways, yes, but in others, no way! Are the discussions better? From my experience, no, they are actually much worse.

On-boarding is why 1/10 of members remain active a year later, and ever fewer five years later. What is the brilliance in baptizing 10 people, to have only one remain active??

By the way, the missionaries were over a week or two ago--and it was about numbers/ baptisms, with little concern or caring about the person.

Your negative attitude towards the Church would change if you gave up that unholy energy healing. Elder Ballard is trying to get through to you. Give him a chance.

Maybe if you opened your heart to good things, you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Give the truth a chance.

Got all the truth I needed regarding bogus energy healing from Elder Ballard last conference. Calling my comments asinine doesn't reflect well on how you react to apostolic teaching.

[JohnnyL]

Your negative attitude towards the Church would change if you gave up that unholy energy healing. Elder Ballard is trying to get through to you. Give him a chance.

Maybe if you opened your heart to good things, you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Give the truth a chance.

Got all the truth I needed regarding bogus energy healing from Elder Ballard last conference. Calling my comments asinine doesn't reflect well on how you react to apostolic teaching.

What truth was that? In fact, where was it mentioned?

And yes, it's still an asinine comment, in more ways than one.

[brianj]

I am disappointed to hear that baptism goals have gone away. I had a firm goal for my mission, an exact number that I wanted to hit precisely, and if I am blessed with the opportunity to take another mission I will carry exactly the same goal with me even if counseled against it. That number was, and will be zero. Before I explain why my goal was zero and will be zero, let me give you some background information and see if I can get Silver to accuse me of hating the church.

There is only one reason why I am here now: missionaries. And I don't mean their teaching me the gospel and bringing me to baptism. One of those two sister missionaries spent nearly a full year in my area after I was baptized. She and her companions invited me to do things regularly, almost on a weekly basis. They also introduced me to elders who spent a lot of time with me. This was all after I was baptized, so there was nothing in it for them: no credit for a baptism, no discussions or contacts they could report. In my ward I didn't have contact with anybody else from church other than on Sundays. I never had anybody to sit with. In that ward the Bishopric would have priesthood holders sit after completing the sacrament until they were dismissed "to sit with their families." I NEVER wanted to participate in sacrament because, where would I go? A home teacher was assigned to me, of course, but not for a few months after I was baptized. His idea of home teaching was, "let's talk for a minute after priesthood." He wanted to give a good report but didn't want to be inconvenienced to come see me. I was basically alone. I didn't have any friends other than missionaries, who I now recognize were only friends until they were transferred elsewhere. Being alone sucked then, as much as he sucks now.

Since then I have been in many different wards, all across the United States. In most wards nobody talks to me, nobody probably even recognizes a visitor, until priesthood meeting. Then two or three people will say hi but that will be the end of it. I have visited wards where not one person spoke to me in the entire three hours.

Most church members will fellowship someone new if they are introduced and instructed to do so, but short of that very few church members care in the least about an investigator or new move in coming to their ward.

Because of all of this I set a goal of zero baptisms. I wanted a ward member to come to every single discussion. I wanted to get together with investigators for more than discussions so we could have a little fun, we could get to know one another better, and they could get to know the ward members we also invited. I wanted a ward member to baptize and confirm every single convert that I helped bring to baptism. I wasn't very popular with my companions over this, but I sincerely hoped that in this way converts would have friends and those friends would have a real interest in the converts. The converts I saw who quickly left the church didn't have the friends I really hoped they would have in their ward.

Although Silver saw this as anti-church, missionary work really is about love, not numbers. He reminds me of a truth I once read from an anti Mormon. He said that if you want to know how sincere Mormons "friends" really are, act like you are interested in meeting the missionaries then say you aren't interested any more after two or three visits. A great many church members will turn their back on the person they were pretending to be friends with, just as so many church members turn their backs on those who fall away.

The secret to member missionary work is the same as the secret to being a good home teacher, a good teacher, or a good leader. Just be a friend. Don't worry about teaching the gospel. You don't need to continually keep pushing someone who isn't a church member to take discussions or get baptized. You don't need to tell an inactive family you home teach to come to church every time you see them. Just be a friend! That friendship will have a much more positive impact than treating people like they don't deserve friendship or attention unless they are baptized and come to church every Sunday.

In Silver's words I inferred what I almost always observe in church members: loving people, being a real friend, and genuinely caring about or helping others isn't important since it doesn't bring new members or regular church attendance. We've heard from church leaders that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care, but too many church members think this means we should pretend to care about people and not actually care unless they join the church and come every Sunday. But is this the example our Savior gave?

[JohnnyL]

Possible goals:

I know that most missionaries weren't reading much (or any) of the BoM on my mission, so that would be a great goal.
So would companion study and practice--after a short while, no one hardly did any.
# of people you talk to, # of people you invite to church, # of people you invite to discussions.
# of new converts you spend time with.
# of members you can get to help you.
# of times you bear a testimony (I'm amazed, looking back, at how little I did that separately from teaching).

[Silver]

Your negative attitude towards the Church would change if you gave up that unholy energy healing. Elder Ballard is trying to get through to you. Give him a chance.

Maybe if you opened your heart to good things, you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Give the truth a chance.

Got all the truth I needed regarding bogus energy healing from Elder Ballard last conference. Calling my comments asinine doesn't reflect well on how you react to apostolic teaching.

What truth was that? In fact, where was it mentioned?

And yes, it's still an asinine comment, in more ways than one.

You'll repent of your belief in energy healing one day. This side of the veil or the other. You decide.

[JohnnyL]

Maybe if you opened your heart to good things, you wouldn't make such asinine comments. Give the truth a chance.

Got all the truth I needed regarding bogus energy healing from Elder Ballard last conference. Calling my comments asinine doesn't reflect well on how you react to apostolic teaching.

What truth was that? In fact, where was it mentioned?

And yes, it's still an asinine comment, in more ways than one.

You'll repent of your belief in energy healing one day. This side of the veil or the other. You decide.

Nope.

Words of warning: "so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it." --PRESIDENT and PROPHET, Brigham Young

[Silver]

Got all the truth I needed regarding bogus energy healing from Elder Ballard last conference. Calling my comments asinine doesn't reflect well on how you react to apostolic teaching.

What truth was that? In fact, where was it mentioned?

And yes, it's still an asinine comment, in more ways than one.

You'll repent of your belief in energy healing one day. This side of the veil or the other. You decide.

Nope.

Words of warning: "so that you sell all your wheat, and transport it out of the country, and you are left with nothing more than a pile of gold, what good would it do you? You could not eat it, drink it, wear it, or carry it off where you could have something to eat. The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat. Gold is not to be compared with it in value. Why would it be precious to you now? Simply because you could get gold for it? Gold is good for nothing, only as men value it. It is no better than a piece of iron, a piece of limestone, or a piece of sandstone, and it is not half so good as the soil from which we raise our wheat, and other necessaries of life. The children of men love it, they lust after it, are greedy for it, and are ready to destroy themselves, and those around them, over whom they have any influence, to gain it." --PRESIDENT and PROPHET, Brigham Young

How lame. You actually pulled up an old quote by Brigham Young and used it out of context to bash me on my preference for precious metals over Federal Reserve Hiney Wipes. Dude, get a grip. Jehovah made my favorite means of building my financial reserve. What do you got? Fiat, created by evil and conspiring men. OK, here you go one more time...you will repent of your belief in fiat one day. This side of the veil or the other. You decide.

That quote is so anachronistic under your usage. What do you think was in BY's pocket when he said those words you've ignorantly posted? What do you think was in the safe at Zion's Bank when BY said those words you've ignorantly posted?

[JohnnyL]

Another word of warning: 2 Nephi 12:7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.

[Silver]

Another word of warning: 2 Nephi 12:7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.

Even lamer. You're good at one thing: Taking scripture and quotes out of context.