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AI2.0
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by AI2.0 »

inho wrote: October 16th, 2017, 9:33 am
brianj wrote: October 15th, 2017, 3:51 pm Here's something important that needs to be mentioned: When an endowed man dies, it's the duty of the high priests to dress his body for the funeral. When I think about wanting to become a high priest, I think about this duty and suddenly I'm not in so much of a hurry to become a high priest.
An endowed elder may participate in the dressing. If all the high priests in the ward are old and weak, it is actually good idea to have help from elders.
Endowed sisters can also perform this work.

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,
While both statements are problematic, it is hard to nail it down, because your illogic slithers around like Jello. So are you saying;

1) that God goes around ordaining High priests himself?

or

2) That High Priests must be ordained by one who holds the keys but that Ordination is not valid until sealed by God or the Holy ghost... however that occurs?
The above questions seem straightforward to me. I always believed that truths can be stated simply and those who truly understand truth can answer clearly and simply. All you do is copy a pile of interpretations of scriptures, that do not actually address any of your assertions, whatever they may be, because you so contradict yourself, that it is hard to figure out what you are actually asserting.

As for JST Genesis 14, it does talk about Mechezedek being ordained to a priesthood after the Order of God, and it does address what that Order is, but it doesn't address the details of his ordination, and it certainly doesn't address how one would be ordained a HP in a world where the Melchezedek priesthood has already been restored... assuming you actually believe that it has been restored.

I would ask one more time for you to answer the questions I posed about what it is that you are trying to say, but I suppose you cannot give a clear answer, so if the best you can do is copy and paste a bunch of irrelevant non sequitur stuff, I would suggest just let it go, and I will make my conclusions about your assertions accordingly.

Regards,

George Clay

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote: October 16th, 2017, 6:05 pm Finrock,
While both statements are problematic, it is hard to nail it down, because your illogic slithers around like Jello. So are you saying;

1) that God goes around ordaining High priests himself?

or

2) That High Priests must be ordained by one who holds the keys but that Ordination is not valid until sealed by God or the Holy ghost... however that occurs?
The above questions seem straightforward to me. I always believed that truths can be stated simply and those who truly understand truth can answer clearly and simply. All you do is copy a pile of interpretations of scriptures, that do not actually address any of your assertions, whatever they may be, because you so contradict yourself, that it is hard to figure out what you are actually asserting.

As for JST Genesis 14, it does talk about Mechezedek being ordained to a priesthood after the Order of God, and it does address what that Order is, but it doesn't address the details of his ordination, and it certainly doesn't address how one would be ordained a HP in a world where the Melchezedek priesthood has already been restored... assuming you actually believe that it has been restored.

I would ask one more time for you to answer the questions I posed about what it is that you are trying to say, but I suppose you cannot give a clear answer, so if the best you can do is copy and paste a bunch of irrelevant non sequitur stuff, I would suggest just let it go, and I will make my conclusions about your assertions accordingly.

Regards,

George Clay
George,

Are you addressing me with mutual respect? Are your questions sincere and asked with real intent?

-Finrock

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,
George,

Are you addressing me with mutual respect? Are your questions sincere and asked with real intent?

-Finrock
I ask out of neither respect nor disrespect. I care little for personal feelings. I do ask with sincerity and real intent, because I do care about truth.


Regards,

George Clay

JohnnyL
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by JohnnyL »

AI2.0 wrote: October 16th, 2017, 4:26 pm
inho wrote: October 16th, 2017, 9:33 am
brianj wrote: October 15th, 2017, 3:51 pm Here's something important that needs to be mentioned: When an endowed man dies, it's the duty of the high priests to dress his body for the funeral. When I think about wanting to become a high priest, I think about this duty and suddenly I'm not in so much of a hurry to become a high priest.
An endowed elder may participate in the dressing. If all the high priests in the ward are old and weak, it is actually good idea to have help from elders.
Endowed sisters can also perform this work.
Unless it's my wife--Over my dead body!

EmmaLee
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Posts: 10884

Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by EmmaLee »

JohnnyL wrote: October 17th, 2017, 9:13 am
AI2.0 wrote: October 16th, 2017, 4:26 pm
inho wrote: October 16th, 2017, 9:33 am
brianj wrote: October 15th, 2017, 3:51 pm Here's something important that needs to be mentioned: When an endowed man dies, it's the duty of the high priests to dress his body for the funeral. When I think about wanting to become a high priest, I think about this duty and suddenly I'm not in so much of a hurry to become a high priest.
An endowed elder may participate in the dressing. If all the high priests in the ward are old and weak, it is actually good idea to have help from elders.
Endowed sisters can also perform this work.
Unless it's my wife--Over my dead body!
Yes, I would certainly hope women would not dress men for burial, and vice versa, as the body that you are touching and handling is entirely naked. Unless it was a close family member, such as their spouse, of course - although I do have one female friend who dressed her father for burial, but he only had one endowed male relative, so she pretty much had to help. It's been a sacred experience for me to help dress departed sisters for burial - I have been grateful for the times I have been asked to assist in this work, and can verify that the veil is very thin on such occasions.

As to one of the above points though, without being too graphic, it is not easy, physically, to lift and bend a deceased person - it takes a good deal of strength, so I can definitely see wisdom in asking strong people to help, especially if the deceased is a large person.

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inho
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by inho »

brianj wrote: October 15th, 2017, 3:51 pm Here's something important that needs to be mentioned: When an endowed man dies, it's the duty of the high priests to dress his body for the funeral. When I think about wanting to become a high priest, I think about this duty and suddenly I'm not in so much of a hurry to become a high priest.
I keep exploring this sidetrack to the thread: dressing the dead might actually be a beautiful experience. I have never participated in the dressing myself, but this post from my favourite Mormon blog is really touching:
Keepapitchinin.org: Dressing the Dead

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote: October 17th, 2017, 6:21 am Finrock,
George,

Are you addressing me with mutual respect? Are your questions sincere and asked with real intent?

-Finrock
I ask out of neither respect nor disrespect. I care little for personal feelings. I do ask with sincerity and real intent, because I do care about truth.


Regards,

George Clay
George,

A true High Priest is called by God and ordained by God. They are essentially the same. When the Spirit seals something, it is done. No matter how many men lay their hands on your head and ordain you a High Priest, it is eternally meaningless unless God lays His hands on your head and seals or validates the ordination. God calls and ordains true High Priest. God does these things by the power of the Holy Ghost. It is the Holy Ghost that confirms and seals any ordination, making it valid. This order doesn't come by man nor the will of man, but of God. God delivers this calling unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will.
JST Genesis 14:27 wrote: And thus, having been approved of God, he was ordained an high priest after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch,

28 It being after the order of the Son of God; which order came, not by man, nor the will of man; neither by father nor mother; neither by beginning of days nor end of years; but of God;

29 And it was delivered unto men by the calling of his own voice, according to his own will, unto as many as believed on his name.


-Finrock

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,
A true High Priest is called by God and ordained by God. They are essentially the same. When the Spirit seals something, it is done. No matter how many men lay their hands on your head and ordain you a High Priest, it is eternally meaningless unless God lays His hands on your head and seals or validates the ordination.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote: October 17th, 2017, 1:32 pm Finrock,
A true High Priest is called by God and ordained by God. They are essentially the same. When the Spirit seals something, it is done. No matter how many men lay their hands on your head and ordain you a High Priest, it is eternally meaningless unless God lays His hands on your head and seals or validates the ordination.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.
You and your obsession with panties! :D

-Finrock

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

Preach My Gospel wrote:The Holy Ghost is also referred to as the Holy Spirit of Promise (see D&C 88:3). To be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise means that the Holy Ghost confirms that righteous acts, ordinances, and covenants are acceptable to God. The Holy Spirit of Promise testifies to the Father that the saving ordinances have been performed properly and that the covenants associated with them have been kept. Those who are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise receive all that the Father has (see D&C 76:51–60; Ephesians 1:13–14). All covenants and performances must be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise if they are to be valid after this life (see D&C 132:7, 18–19, 26).
-Finrock

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,

You sure vomit a lot of words to never answer direct questions.

Am I a High Priest or not?

Should be pretty simple.


Did Peter James and John restore anything when they ordained Joseph Smith? What was it?

Regards,

George Clay

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote: October 17th, 2017, 3:56 pm Finrock,

You sure vomit a lot of words to never answer direct questions.

Am I a High Priest or not?

Should be pretty simple.


Did Peter James and John restore anything when they ordained Joseph Smith? What was it?

Regards,

George Clay
George,

Let me know when you're ready to engage me with mutual respect, sincerity, and real intent.

-Finrock

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,

I guess you can't handle straightforward questions. I mean what could be more straightforward than
Am I a High Priest or not?
Hint you could answer it with one word... either Yes or No

Or even a slimy dodge could be one word

Maybe


I do have a great deal of respect for straightforward honesty. I don't respect slimy accusations that contain escape routes so that you can deny anything while implying anything, and feel like you have shown how righteous and superior you are.

Regards,

George Clay

Serragon
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Serragon »

The question of when is a good age to become a high priest is a good one, but it really a cultural question instead of a gospel question. The question arises purely because of the way we, as a church, choose to organize.

As has been pointed out already, no one needs to become a high priest. The office of Elder in the Melchizedek priesthood is sufficient. You only need to be a high priest to serve in a few of the callings of the church.

This becomes a problem, though, because we organize a high priest group at the ward level. The High priest quorum is actually a stake level quorum with the Stake president as the quorum president. There is no purpose to a ward level high priest group. The Elders Quorum president has the keys to organize the work of the Melchizedek priesthood for the ward. The High priests have no keys and at the ward level should be under the jurisdiction of the Elders Quorum president. All Melchizedek priesthood holders should be attending the same quorum meeting w/ the EQP in charge.

The net effect of this is that A) there are many more HP than there need be and B) there is a problem with older elders having a stigma attached to them or feeling out of place. I think the answer is to simply stop organizing a ward level High priest group.

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kittycat51
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by kittycat51 »

Copy and pasted for and from "freedomforall"

Alma 13:3,10

3 And this is the manner after which they were ordained—being called and prepared from the foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God, on account of their exceeding faith and good works; in the first place being left to choose good or evil; therefore they having chosen good, and exercising exceedingly great faith, are called with a holy calling, yea, with that holy calling which was prepared with, and according to, a preparatory redemption for such.

10 Now, as I said concerning the holy order, or this high priesthood, there were many who were ordained and became high priests of God; and it was on account of their exceeding faith and repentance, and their righteousness before God, they choosing to repent and work righteousness rather than to perish;

Read Alma 13:1-12 for a full understanding.

diligently seeking
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by diligently seeking »

gclayjr wrote: October 17th, 2017, 4:20 pm Finrock,

I guess you can't handle straightforward questions. I mean what could be more straightforward than
Am I a High Priest or not?
Hint you could answer it with one word... either Yes or No

Or even a slimy dodge could be one word

Maybe


I do have a great deal of respect for straightforward honesty. I don't respect slimy accusations that contain escape routes so that you can deny anything while implying anything, and feel like you have shown how righteous and superior you are.

Regards,

George Clay

I'm gonna be a little abrupt. George--when I read your posts (many) I'm reminded of shades of resemblance of one who also was combative and defensive and attacking--- and the person that comes to my mind is Saul of Tarsus.

We all should be more like converted Paul who no doubt was peaceful and loving and confident in control and secure in his discipleship.

No doubt he embodied this great advice by Joseph Smith:

Tell the people to be humble and faithful, and be sure to keep the Spirit of the Lord and it will lead them right. Be careful and not turn away the small still voice; it will teach them what to do and where to go; it will yield the fruits of the kingdom. Tell the brethren to keep their hearts open to conviction, so that when the Holy Ghost comes to them, their hearts will be ready to receive it. They can tell the Spirit of the Lord from all other spirits; it will whisper peace and joy to their souls; it will take malice, hatred, strife and all evil from their hearts..."

When we act contrary to this advice we can say Amen / see ya later to whatever priesthood God has endowed us with...

PS "don't get your panties in a pinch" too often we all have similar shades of resemblance.
👎

diligently seeking
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by diligently seeking »

JaredBees wrote: October 17th, 2017, 10:17 pm
gclayjr wrote: October 17th, 2017, 4:20 pm Finrock,

I guess you can't handle straightforward questions. I mean what could be more straightforward than
Am I a High Priest or not?
Hint you could answer it with one word... either Yes or No

Or even a slimy dodge could be one word

Maybe


I do have a great deal of respect for straightforward honesty. I don't respect slimy accusations that contain escape routes so that you can deny anything while implying anything, and feel like you have shown how righteous and superior you are.

Regards,

George Clay

I'm gonna be a little abrupt. George--when I read your posts (many) I'm reminded of shades of resemblance of one who also was combative and defensive and attacking--- and the person that comes to my mind is Saul of Tarsus.

We all should be more like converted Paul who no doubt was peaceful and loving and confident in control and secure in his discipleship.

No doubt he embodied this great advice by Joseph Smith:

Tell the people to be humble and faithful, and be sure to keep the Spirit of the Lord and it will lead them right. Be careful and not turn away the small still voice; it will teach them what to do and where to go; it will yield the fruits of the kingdom. Tell the brethren to keep their hearts open to conviction, so that when the Holy Ghost comes to them, their hearts will be ready to receive it. They can tell the Spirit of the Lord from all other spirits; it will whisper peace and joy to their souls; it will take malice, hatred, strife and all evil from their hearts..."

When we act contrary to this advice we can say Amen / see ya later to whatever priesthood God has endowed us with...

PS "don't get your panties in a pinch" too often we all have similar shades of resemblance.
👎

Phillipians 3:

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ...

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

JaredDBees,
Phillipians 3:

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ..
It looks like you also suffer from an inability to respond clearly to the point also... including vomiting scripture that doesn't really relate the point Finrock wrote:
True High Priest, not just ones on the Church records and who have a title given to them by the Church, are called by God, only. It has nothing to do with age or being a part of some club. Sure, such a thing does exist in the Church, but what makes a High Priest is one who has been ordained by God Himself to be such and this ordination has been sealed by the Holy Ghost.
Which certainly appears to contradict the accepted Gospel, and to be an insult to those who try and follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, But you or nobody cares if people like Finrcok insults either the Church or those who follow its teachings. You just want them to have no contest to their sniping.

I then posed my situation which fits his demeaning insult.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.
And asked him if my being ordained but not receiving some evidence of Christ, God the father or any other heavenly being ordaining me means that I am not really a HP. Finrock, babels and quotes irrelevant stuff but never answers the question, just insinuates that people like me are not really HP, despite what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says.

You don't have a problem with either his implications that the teachings and ordinations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints are false and those ordained have no priesthood. You don't even have a problem with his dodging answers to a simple direct question which, when answered, would show that he is truly preaching a terrible heresy.

You are only concerned that his delicate feelings might be hurt if someone clearly points things out to him.

Don't worry, I am not going to go boo hooing because you took a shot at me.

I will still stand up and shed light on lying bull crap, because truth and honesty is much more important to me than the feelings of those who don't even have the integrity to honestly say what they mean.


Regards,

George Clay

diligently seeking
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Posts: 1272

Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by diligently seeking »

gclayjr wrote: October 18th, 2017, 5:56 am JaredDBees,
Phillipians 3:

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ..
It looks like you also suffer from an inability to respond clearly to the point also... including vomiting scripture that doesn't really relate the point Finrock wrote:
True High Priest, not just ones on the Church records and who have a title given to them by the Church, are called by God, only. It has nothing to do with age or being a part of some club. Sure, such a thing does exist in the Church, but what makes a High Priest is one who has been ordained by God Himself to be such and this ordination has been sealed by the Holy Ghost.
Which certainly appears to contradict the accepted Gospel, and to be an insult to those who try and follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, But you or nobody cares if people like Finrcok insults either the Church or those who follow its teachings. You just want them to have no contest to their sniping.

I then posed my situation which fits his demeaning insult.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.
And asked him if my being ordained but not receiving some evidence of Christ, God the father or any other heavenly being ordaining me means that I am not really a HP. Finrock, babels and quotes irrelevant stuff but never answers the question, just insinuates that people like me are not really HP, despite what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says.

You don't have a problem with either his implications that the teachings and ordinations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints are false and those ordained have no priesthood. You don't even have a problem with his dodging answers to a simple direct question which, when answered, would show that he is truly preaching a terrible heresy.

You are only concerned that his delicate feelings might be hurt if someone clearly points things out to him.

Don't worry, I am not going to go boo hooing because you took a shot at me.

I will still stand up and shed light on lying bull crap, because truth and honesty is much more important to me than the feelings of those who don't even have the integrity to honestly say what they mean.


Regards,

George Clay
Your seeing alot of RED George. We live to receive the holy priesthood from God that it might be active ---and for the Holy Spirit to inspire and ratify. If I'm not mistaken this is what Finrock --- simply is sharing with you. I'm at peace with that construct / reality. My encouragement to you and all is to have your Fidelity be strictly placed with Jesus Christ. The beautiful truths of the church will fall into place and those that are the constructs of man will fall out of place if Christ is our sure Foundation...

George, love and respect for you.

Jared

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

CelestAngel,
So does it matter if I become a High Priest or remain an Elder forever?
No,

There is no blessing nor personal progress that you are limited from by being an Elder!

Regards,

George Clay

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

JaredBees,
Your seeing alot of RED George. We live to receive the holy priesthood from God that it might be active ---and for the Holy Spirit to inspire and ratify. If I'm not mistaken this is what Finrock --- simply is sharing with you. I'm at peace with that construct / reality. My encouragement to you and all is to have your Fidelity be strictly placed with Jesus Christ. The beautiful truths of the church will fall into place and those that are the constructs of man will fall out of place if Christ is our sure Foundation...
You a mind reader? That is not what Finrock says. Maybe it is what he believes, and maybe not, but is not what he says. If he said something like that there is a difference between the authority of the priesthood, and the power of the priesthood, then I would agree and we wouldn't be having this discussion. That would also mean that the power is only given to some of those who received the authority by being ordained by men holding the priesthood.

I appreciate you running interference for Finrock and changing his message for him. However, if you have followed his fascination for Amonhi, and other heretical doctrines that propose that adults don't need to be baptized, either here or by proxy, because God just saves whomever he saves, so vicarious baptism is unnecessary, or that if you follow Amonhi's magic formula, you can get Christ to come visit you and get your C&E made sure completely outside of his church. Or that God goes around making prophets out of random people regardless of who might be the Prophet of the Church, then you might not be so quick to change his words to mean a more traditional meaning rather than what he actually says
True High Priest, not just ones on the Church records and who have a title given to them by the Church, are called by God, only. It has nothing to do with age or being a part of some club. Sure, such a thing does exist in the Church, but what makes a High Priest is one who has been ordained by God Himself to be such and this ordination has been sealed by the Holy Ghost.
Regards,

George Clay

Finrock
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by Finrock »

gclayjr wrote: October 18th, 2017, 5:56 am JaredDBees,
Phillipians 3:

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ..
It looks like you also suffer from an inability to respond clearly to the point also... including vomiting scripture that doesn't really relate the point Finrock wrote:
True High Priest, not just ones on the Church records and who have a title given to them by the Church, are called by God, only. It has nothing to do with age or being a part of some club. Sure, such a thing does exist in the Church, but what makes a High Priest is one who has been ordained by God Himself to be such and this ordination has been sealed by the Holy Ghost.
Which certainly appears to contradict the accepted Gospel, and to be an insult to those who try and follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, But you or nobody cares if people like Finrcok insults either the Church or those who follow its teachings. You just want them to have no contest to their sniping.

I then posed my situation which fits his demeaning insult.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.
And asked him if my being ordained but not receiving some evidence of Christ, God the father or any other heavenly being ordaining me means that I am not really a HP. Finrock, babels and quotes irrelevant stuff but never answers the question, just insinuates that people like me are not really HP, despite what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says.

You don't have a problem with either his implications that the teachings and ordinations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints are false and those ordained have no priesthood. You don't even have a problem with his dodging answers to a simple direct question which, when answered, would show that he is truly preaching a terrible heresy.

You are only concerned that his delicate feelings might be hurt if someone clearly points things out to him.

Don't worry, I am not going to go boo hooing because you took a shot at me.

I will still stand up and shed light on lying bull crap, because truth and honesty is much more important to me than the feelings of those who don't even have the integrity to honestly say what they mean.


Regards,

George Clay
I understand now why you've responded the way that you have. You have been offended and so you are lashing out in response, which is historically typical for you. You feel like I'm belittling your status as an ordained High Priest in the Church. I need to remember when addressing you that you have this tough, outer shell that's all spiky, but you're really fragile on the inside.

Well, I can assure you that I am not intending to offend you. If something that I've said is offensive to you then I can't take responsibility for that. Here is some sage advice from Brigham Young: "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”

At the end, I'm just relating to you the truth as I know it. Truth is what truth is. If something I say convicts you that doesn't then mean that I'm intentionally going after you. Sometimes things that are true are hard to hear, not to say this is one of those cases, but that is certainly true.

All I know is the general principle which is that a High Priest is one who is called and ordained by God and this is done through the Holy Spirit of Promise. It is also true that no ordinance, covenant, or contract is valid in the eternities unless it has been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That means that there will sometimes be men who are called and ordained on earth and they are recognized as a High Priest by the Church and other mortals, but because God doesn't or hasn't called them and sanctioned them and their ordination hasn't been sealed by the Spirit, the ordination is incomplete and it doesn't hold sway in the eternities or after this life. I've explained this idea on several occasions including in this thread.

George, only you can know if the Holy Spirit has confirmed your ordination as a High Priest. I know that a true High Priest is a peaceable follower of Jesus Christ and a true High Priest lives in harmony with the Holy Spirit. A true High Priest will also be an ensample to others of what it means to have received Christ. There is more to being a High Priest than just being old and being a member of the old men's club. Because this is how its often treated then I guess I can understand people who treat this ordination this way to become offended when I point this out. But, as I've said, truth is what truth is. Its good to point out traditions, mentalities, and understandings pertaining to the gospel that are in error, even when doing so may lead to someone being offended. There are many people who read these posts and we never know who has a receptive ear and who might be willing to consider that their traditions are in error, etc.

-Finrock

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gclayjr
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Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by gclayjr »

Finrock,
ll I know is the general principle which is that a High Priest is one who is called and ordained by God and this is done through the Holy Spirit of Promise. It is also true that no ordinance, covenant, or contract is valid in the eternities unless it has been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That means that there will sometimes be men who are called and ordained on earth and they are recognized as a High Priest by the Church and other mortals, but because God doesn't or hasn't called them and sanctioned them and their ordination hasn't been sealed by the Spirit, the ordination is incomplete and it doesn't hold sway in the eternities or after this life. I've explained this idea on several occasions including in this thread.
It's been like pulling teeth, but we are getting closer. If you spent less time trying to accuse me of that thin skinned concern for whether people admire me or not that dominates you, there would be less whining and more substance.

OK, you have answered part one. A person ordained as a HP in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints who has not had God also visit him, nor felt the burning of the sealing of the spirit, such as I have confessed to, is not really a HP.

Before I respond to this, would you be so kind as to answer the 2nd part of the question. Can a man in the year 2017, be Ordained a HP by God or the Holy Spirit WITHOUT being ordained by a man in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who is a HP?


Regards,

George Clay

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AI2.0
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Posts: 3917

Re: What's a good age to become a high priest?

Post by AI2.0 »

Finrock wrote: October 18th, 2017, 2:21 pm
gclayjr wrote: October 18th, 2017, 5:56 am JaredDBees,
Phillipians 3:

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:

5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I might win Christ..
It looks like you also suffer from an inability to respond clearly to the point also... including vomiting scripture that doesn't really relate the point Finrock wrote:
True High Priest, not just ones on the Church records and who have a title given to them by the Church, are called by God, only. It has nothing to do with age or being a part of some club. Sure, such a thing does exist in the Church, but what makes a High Priest is one who has been ordained by God Himself to be such and this ordination has been sealed by the Holy Ghost.
Which certainly appears to contradict the accepted Gospel, and to be an insult to those who try and follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, But you or nobody cares if people like Finrcok insults either the Church or those who follow its teachings. You just want them to have no contest to their sniping.

I then posed my situation which fits his demeaning insult.
So according to you my Church leaders have lied to me. I am not a High Priest, even though I was so ordained! and Peter James and John restored NOTHING to Joseph Smith.

Regards,

George Clay

PS: you consistently get your panties in a twist, when someone suggests that you are not a TBM, and that you say things heretical to the established doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. How do you square that circle with your recent comments?

PPS: I make no claim and have no testimony that Jesus Christ , God the Father or anybody else directly ordained me other than the HP in my quorum who laid his hands upon my head and ordained me a HP.
And asked him if my being ordained but not receiving some evidence of Christ, God the father or any other heavenly being ordaining me means that I am not really a HP. Finrock, babels and quotes irrelevant stuff but never answers the question, just insinuates that people like me are not really HP, despite what the Gospel of Jesus Christ says.

You don't have a problem with either his implications that the teachings and ordinations of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints are false and those ordained have no priesthood. You don't even have a problem with his dodging answers to a simple direct question which, when answered, would show that he is truly preaching a terrible heresy.

You are only concerned that his delicate feelings might be hurt if someone clearly points things out to him.

Don't worry, I am not going to go boo hooing because you took a shot at me.

I will still stand up and shed light on lying bull crap, because truth and honesty is much more important to me than the feelings of those who don't even have the integrity to honestly say what they mean.


Regards,

George Clay
I understand now why you've responded the way that you have. You have been offended and so you are lashing out in response, which is historically typical for you. You feel like I'm belittling your status as an ordained High Priest in the Church. I need to remember when addressing you that you have this tough, outer shell that's all spiky, but you're really fragile on the inside.

Well, I can assure you that I am not intending to offend you. If something that I've said is offensive to you then I can't take responsibility for that. Here is some sage advice from Brigham Young: "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”

At the end, I'm just relating to you the truth as I know it. Truth is what truth is. If something I say convicts you that doesn't then mean that I'm intentionally going after you. Sometimes things that are true are hard to hear, not to say this is one of those cases, but that is certainly true.

All I know is the general principle which is that a High Priest is one who is called and ordained by God and this is done through the Holy Spirit of Promise. It is also true that no ordinance, covenant, or contract is valid in the eternities unless it has been sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. That means that there will sometimes be men who are called and ordained on earth and they are recognized as a High Priest by the Church and other mortals, but because God doesn't or hasn't called them and sanctioned them and their ordination hasn't been sealed by the Spirit, the ordination is incomplete and it doesn't hold sway in the eternities or after this life. I've explained this idea on several occasions including in this thread.

George, only you can know if the Holy Spirit has confirmed your ordination as a High Priest. I know that a true High Priest is a peaceable follower of Jesus Christ and a true High Priest lives in harmony with the Holy Spirit. A true High Priest will also be an ensample to others of what it means to have received Christ. There is more to being a High Priest than just being old and being a member of the old men's club. Because this is how its often treated then I guess I can understand people who treat this ordination this way to become offended when I point this out. But, as I've said, truth is what truth is. Its good to point out traditions, mentalities, and understandings pertaining to the gospel that are in error, even when doing so may lead to someone being offended. There are many people who read these posts and we never know who has a receptive ear and who might be willing to consider that their traditions are in error, etc.

-Finrock
***Once again you are not relating the LDS doctrinal position on this, you are relating your own interpretation--which is actually the same view as Denver Snuffer, (which may be why Jared agrees with you).

As far as the church is concerned, you are a High Priest if you've been set apart to that office within the Melchizedek priesthood. George is a High Priest. Now, maybe if you are a member of another church, such as the Remnant, then because of their particular beliefs, there may be some question as to whether or not someone is a High Priest and in that religion, maybe men can claim to be High priests when they haven't been set apart to that office--but not in the LDS church.

It is not necessary to hold the office of High Priest unless it is required for a calling for which you are called and set apart to serve in. But, it is the practice of the church (and they are within their right to do so) to ordain some men (usually older) to this office.

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