The Davidic Servant, Revelation 12, and 9/23/2017

[dafty]

ill be getting nuked again by the dragon
PS. in my defence, my 2 sisters r red heads and my best mate in highschool...oh and my ex lol

Ex counts against you.

stop derailing the thread!!! if u havent got anything to contribute-get disappeared

I'm reporting this post!!!

...and im still laughing at that other thing that was good

[Elizabeth]

Almost 8am and all is well.

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

[dafty]

Almost 8am and all is well.

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

let me put it this way luv, regardless if brianm will nuke me again or not- if you have time to post the same, smacking of ridicule and patronizing comment, how about you spend that time, actually finding out whats being preached here? how about you download stellarium and find out that the actual allignment does not happen till ~6pm BST, which is probably 24th up in aussie land. I hate to break it to u, but the world does not revolve around ur continent, sorry. And whilst ur at it, how about u put some time into finding out that were not preaching end of the world here, nor Nibiru smashing into Sydney city centre.The birth of DS might be very personal experience, as was the birth of our Saviour. wanna mock the magi- fill ur boots...

[Alaris]

Almost 8am and all is well.

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

let me put it this way luv, regardless if brianm will nuke me again or not- if you have time to post the same, smacking of ridicule and patronizing comment, how about you spend that time, actually finding out whats being preached here? how about you download stellarium and find out that the actual allignment does not happen till ~6pm BST, which is probably 24th up in aussie land. I hate to break it to u, but the world does not revolve around ur continent, sorry. And whilst ur at it, how about u put some time into finding out that were not preaching end of the world here, nor Nibiru smashing into Sydney city centre.The birth of DS might be very personal experience, as was the birth of our Saviour. wanna mock the magi- fill ur boots...

I'm trying very hard to practice what I preach and not have any sort of mocking tone as I point this out. *Ahem* *serious face*

There manages to be both a mocking of those who believe in signs of second coming AND a reference to 2 Nephi 28:21 in that brief post.

2 Nephi 28:21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

And I wonder if the scoffers realize that by scoffing they are actually adding yet another evidence that this is indeed a sign.

2 Peter 2:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

I am not typing LOL as badly as I want to. Wait, does that count?

Please watch the video above - maybe you can visit the areas devastated by earthquakes, hurricanes, flooding, and fires and tell them "All is well."

[Z2100]

Thanks for your info, Alaris. I haven't had time for the whole thing yet, but I find this stuff fascinating. I agree that these events in the heavens are likely intended to be signs for us, but that they do not necessarily portend impending doom. I don't expect anything drastic to happen on any particular date, but I do think we have been adequately advised that these signs are for a reason, and that we should be watching. If I remember, a solar eclipse is thought to be a sign of judgement, and the fact that this last one covered the USA from coast to coast is noteworthy.

Nothing will happen on 23/9, but what will happen afterwards is of greatest importance. I live in Arizona, so tomorrow I’ll be able to see EXACTLY what Jerusalem sees. Arizona and Jerusalem lie on nearly the same longitude

[Z2100]

We’re very fortunate to know about this sign. We’ll never see this sign again for the next 7000 years and woe unto everyone else who doesn’t know or believe of it!

[Alaris]

Thanks for your info, Alaris. I haven't had time for the whole thing yet, but I find this stuff fascinating. I agree that these events in the heavens are likely intended to be signs for us, but that they do not necessarily portend impending doom. I don't expect anything drastic to happen on any particular date, but I do think we have been adequately advised that these signs are for a reason, and that we should be watching. If I remember, a solar eclipse is thought to be a sign of judgement, and the fact that this last one covered the USA from coast to coast is noteworthy.

Nothing will happen on 23/9, but what will happen afterwards is of greatest importance. I live in Arizona, so tomorrow I’ll be able to see EXACTLY what Jerusalem sees. Arizona and Jerusalem lie on nearly the same longitude

I also live in AZ - installed Stellarium for the first time today and watched the sign. I felt the spirit strongly as I saw the stars rise above Jerusalem in the program.

We in Arizona will see the bottom half of the sign as the sun goes down just as Jerusalem starts to see the top of the sign before the sun comes up. They will see Mars, Mercury, and Venus along with LEO before the sun comes up - makes sense since they are Judah. We will see Jupiter - makes sense to me as I believe the Davidic Servant is LDS (D&C 113 - of Ephraim and Judah.) Ephraim is mainly at this longitude - isn't that interesting - maybe this is why. The majority of "gathered" Ephraim is looking at Jupiter while Judah is seeing LEO.

I watched Jupiter hang out for a seemingly long time - months IIRC - at Libra after being "born" - Libra are scales or justice. Also, I read the naysaying somewhere that this happens every 11 years, so I fast-forwarded 11 years and sure enough Jupiter passes Virgo every 11 years, but that's about it. Jupiter was nowhere near "hanging out" inside Virgo for 42 weeks nor did Mercury, Mars, and Venus line up neatly - spaced out perfectly with Regulus - like they do on 9/23.

It's not too late naysayers. A humble heart and a sincere prayer along with a little study is all that is required. Here is the app if you'd like to look for yourself:

http://www.stellarium.org/

PM me if you need tips on how to use it.

The "King" planet called by us and TZEDEK by the Jews - which means "Righteousness"

[Z2100]

Thanks for your info, Alaris. I haven't had time for the whole thing yet, but I find this stuff fascinating. I agree that these events in the heavens are likely intended to be signs for us, but that they do not necessarily portend impending doom. I don't expect anything drastic to happen on any particular date, but I do think we have been adequately advised that these signs are for a reason, and that we should be watching. If I remember, a solar eclipse is thought to be a sign of judgement, and the fact that this last one covered the USA from coast to coast is noteworthy.

Nothing will happen on 23/9, but what will happen afterwards is of greatest importance. I live in Arizona, so tomorrow I’ll be able to see EXACTLY what Jerusalem sees. Arizona and Jerusalem lie on nearly the same longitude

I also live in AZ - installed Stellarium for the first time today and watched the sign. I felt the spirit strongly as I saw the stars rise above Jerusalem in the program.

We in Arizona will see the bottom half of the sign as the sun goes down just as Jerusalem starts to see the top of the sign before the sun comes up. They will see Mars, Mercury, and Venus along with LEO before the sun comes up - makes sense since they are Judah. We will see Jupiter - makes sense to me as I believe the Davidic Servant is LDS (D&C 113 - of Ephraim and Judah.) Ephraim is mainly at this longitude - isn't that interesting - maybe this is why. The majority of "gathered" Ephraim is looking at Jupiter while Judah is seeing LEO.

I watched Jupiter hang out for a seemingly long time - months IIRC - at Libra after being "born" - Libra are scales or justice. Also, I read the naysaying somewhere that this happens every 11 years, so I fast-forwarded 11 years and sure enough Jupiter passes Virgo every 11 years, but that's about it. Jupiter was nowhere near "hanging out" inside Virgo for 42 weeks nor did Mercury, Mars, and Venus line up neatly - spaced out perfectly with Regulus - like they do on 9/23.

It's not too late naysayers. A humble heart and a sincere prayer along with a little study is all that is required. Here is the app if you'd like to look for yourself:

http://www.stellarium.org/

PM me if you need tips on how to use it.

The "King" planet called by us and TZEDEK by the Jews - which means "Righteousness"

I use the Sky Guide app!

[Elizabeth]

10.48 am 23 September, 2017, the sun is shining and all is well.

Almost 8am and all is well.

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

let me put it this way luv, regardless if brianm will nuke me again or not- if you have time to post the same, smacking of ridicule and patronizing comment, how about you spend that time, actually finding out whats being preached here? how about you download stellarium and find out that the actual allignment does not happen till ~6pm BST, which is probably 24th up in aussie land. I hate to break it to u, but the world does not revolve around ur continent, sorry. And whilst ur at it, how about u put some time into finding out that were not preaching end of the world here, nor Nibiru smashing into Sydney city centre.The birth of DS might be very personal experience, as was the birth of our Saviour. wanna mock the magi- fill ur boots...

[skmo]

Almost 8am and all is well.

It is now Saturday the 23 September, 2017 here on the East Coast of Australia.

let me put it this way luv, regardless if brianm will nuke me again or not- if you have time to post the same, smacking of ridicule and patronizing comment, how about you spend that time, actually finding out whats being preached here? how about you download stellarium and find out that the actual allignment does not happen till ~6pm BST, which is probably 24th up in aussie land. I hate to break it to u, but the world does not revolve around ur continent, sorry. And whilst ur at it, how about u put some time into finding out that were not preaching end of the world here, nor Nibiru smashing into Sydney city centre.The birth of DS might be very personal experience, as was the birth of our Saviour. wanna mock the magi- fill ur boots...

I'm trying very hard to practice what I preach and not have any sort of mocking tone as I point this out. *Ahem* *serious face*

....

Please watch the video above - maybe you can visit the areas devastated by earthquakes, hurricanes, flooding, and fires and tell them "All is well."

Certainly in the places where tragedies are happening all is not well, but tragedies are a normal part of life. As for what's happening...

We have hurricanes during hurricane season striking in areas that hurricanes would hit.

The hurricanes bring flooding everywhere they go because a storm surge is what hurricanes do

We have earthquakes hitting places where we know tectonic instability is normal, and in fact science tells us we're well overdue for in some places.

We have wildfires raging in areas we have wildfires almost every year, and the news focuses on it telling us we're facing an unprecedented tragedy again and again and again year after year after year after year... Only this time some people get to proclaim these things are happening because Mother Nature is punishing us for electing Trump.


Getting all excited because natural disasters happen in the places and times they should happen based on the science we're able to understand would be like me freaking out and going to the doctor saying: "Doc, I don't know what's wrong with me, I've never had this before, but my hair's always been completely black, and now that I'm over 50 years old some of it is changing color, and it's going white! What's wrong with me, doc? Can you run some tests or something?"

[Alaris]

Almost 8am and all is well.

let me put it this way luv, regardless if brianm will nuke me again or not- if you have time to post the same, smacking of ridicule and patronizing comment, how about you spend that time, actually finding out whats being preached here? how about you download stellarium and find out that the actual allignment does not happen till ~6pm BST, which is probably 24th up in aussie land. I hate to break it to u, but the world does not revolve around ur continent, sorry. And whilst ur at it, how about u put some time into finding out that were not preaching end of the world here, nor Nibiru smashing into Sydney city centre.The birth of DS might be very personal experience, as was the birth of our Saviour. wanna mock the magi- fill ur boots...

I'm trying very hard to practice what I preach and not have any sort of mocking tone as I point this out. *Ahem* *serious face*

....

Please watch the video above - maybe you can visit the areas devastated by earthquakes, hurricanes, flooding, and fires and tell them "All is well."

Certainly in the places where tragedies are happening all is not well, but tragedies are a normal part of life. As for what's happening...

We have hurricanes during hurricane season striking in areas that hurricanes would hit.

The hurricanes bring flooding everywhere they go because a storm surge is what hurricanes do

We have earthquakes hitting places where we know tectonic instability is normal, and in fact science tells us we're well overdue for in some places.

We have wildfires raging in areas we have wildfires almost every year, and the news focuses on it telling us we're facing an unprecedented tragedy again and again and again year after year after year after year... Only this time some people get to proclaim these things are happening because Mother Nature is punishing us for electing Trump.


Getting all excited because natural disasters happen in the places and times they should happen based on the science we're able to understand would be like me freaking out and going to the doctor saying: "Doc, I don't know what's wrong with me, I've never had this before, but my hair's always been completely black, and now that I'm over 50 years old some of it is changing color, and it's going white! What's wrong with me, doc? Can you run some tests or something?"

Saying something is nothing without study, thought, and prayer is like telling the doctor, "Thanks for looking at my rash. Before you say anything, it's nothing. Welp. See you later."

The Lord has commanded us to look for signs of His coming and has said there would be signs in the heavens above. This sign so closely resembles Revelation 12 to say it's nothing is beyond... What's the word? Foolish. Have you studied it at all? New moon. Jupiter in the womb for exactly 42 weeks - the human gestation period. Mars, venus, and Mercury lined up perfectly to the largest star in Leo - regulus.

To mock or make light of those who see it as a sign of a marker of the coming of the kingdom of God is way beyond foolish.

Plus you forgot the seven solar flares in seven days during a solar minimum which is understandable given how ridiculous that would sound while naysaying. "Seven solar flares in seven days during a solar minimum along with all the hurricanes, earthquakes, and wildfires means nothing coming after a solar eclipse and just before a sign 33 days later that mirrors revelation 12 at the end of the feast of trumpets and the beginning of the new year and the end of Jewish year 5777 on Shabbat Shuva which means "Return!" with another solar eclipse that comes seven years later making an X right near the Centerpoint of ZION!!! SHEESH." See, it sounds rather silly when you include all of it rather than leaving out the really interesting stuff to make others sound foolish.

[skmo]

To mock or make light of those who see it as a sign of a marker of the coming of the kingdom of God is way beyond foolish.
...
See, it sounds rather silly when you include all of it rather than leaving out the really interesting stuff to make others sound foolish.

I don't try to make anyone look foolish or sound silly. That's not my job, it's theirs. My job is to say what I see, and others can decide for themselves if my words are silly or foolish. I've no doubt some are. I've never met anyone who is always right.

Here's what I see: For over 30 years now, starting on my mission, I've seen people use the scriptures to show a great, long foretold calamity or great happening is about to take place and it's time to come to God NOW to be saved. Some did this for money. Some did it to garner the praise of their fellow man. Some, I would guess, did it because they believed it was right and they were being helpful. I've listened to enough of them over the years (and in the past two decades it's increased dramatically) that I've stopped giving heed.

Foolish? I think not. The drive or push to come to Christ NOW In The Face Of Imminence gets people worked up that something great is about to happen. Invariably it doesn't, and it's not uncommon for people to fall away because they're tired of being misled.

Let's assume something great and terrible WILL happen tomorrow. Should I be doing anything different? I've done the best I can to build up food storage, water, and firewood. I'm trying to pay a full tithe (well, through my wife, I can't pay tithing right now since I'm excommunicated) and make offerings. I'm working on repentance as much as I can, trying to get rebaptized as soon as possible. If something's going to happen, I don't think I could do any more than I am to be ready. If I weren't living as right as I could already, making a last minute dash at the end isn't going to help.

More to the point, I'm not worried because of an OT scripture: Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. I can't wrap my head around the idea that God would have a prophet wrap an incredibly important prophecy in vague symbolism 2,000 years before it's relevant and just leave it at that when He has a living prophet on the earth.

[Alaris]

To mock or make light of those who see it as a sign of a marker of the coming of the kingdom of God is way beyond foolish.
...
See, it sounds rather silly when you include all of it rather than leaving out the really interesting stuff to make others sound foolish.

I don't try to make anyone look foolish or sound silly. That's not my job, it's theirs. My job is to say what I see, and others can decide for themselves if my words are silly or foolish. I've no doubt some are. I've never met anyone who is always right.

Here's what I see: For over 30 years now, starting on my mission, I've seen people use the scriptures to show a great, long foretold calamity or great happening is about to take place and it's time to come to God NOW to be saved. Some did this for money. Some did it to garner the praise of their fellow man. Some, I would guess, did it because they believed it was right and they were being helpful. I've listened to enough of them over the years (and in the past two decades it's increased dramatically) that I've stopped giving heed.

Foolish? I think not. The drive or push to come to Christ NOW In The Face Of Imminence gets people worked up that something great is about to happen. Invariably it doesn't, and it's not uncommon for people to fall away because they're tired of being misled.

Let's assume something great and terrible WILL happen tomorrow. Should I be doing anything different? I've done the best I can to build up food storage, water, and firewood. I'm trying to pay a full tithe (well, through my wife, I can't pay tithing right now since I'm excommunicated) and make offerings. I'm working on repentance as much as I can, trying to get rebaptized as soon as possible. If something's going to happen, I don't think I could do any more than I am to be ready. If I weren't living as right as I could already, making a last minute dash at the end isn't going to help.

More to the point, I'm not worried because of an OT scripture: Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. I can't wrap my head around the idea that God would have a prophet wrap an incredibly important prophecy in vague symbolism 2,000 years before it's relevant and just leave it at that when He has a living prophet on the earth.

Well you've never met me before, and I'm right at least 97 percent of the time. Who cares about the other 4 percent?

Have you seriously read like a single person's thoughts and feelings on 9/23 that believes it's a sign? What you're saying here does not match at all to what I and other's are saying about 9/23. It may pass without anything overt or imminent. However it is absolutely the sign in Revelation 12 and the sign in revelation 12 just indicates that the Kingdom of God is being born. That's it. It could happen tomorrow, or it could be in 10 years which is like 10 minutes in God time.

As for the imminence of repentance, that's all over the scriptures friend. As long as you are on the right path, your excommunication means diddly squat as I believe there will be plenty of time for full fellowship before the heavy (well heavier) Revelation stuff starts happening. Have a read here - seriously awesome scripture:

Alma 34:31 Yea, I would that ye would come forth and harden not your hearts any longer; for behold, now is the time and the day of your salvation; and therefore, if ye will repent and harden not your hearts, immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about unto you.

[skmo]

However it is absolutely the sign in Revelation 12 and the sign in revelation 12 just indicates that the Kingdom of God is being born.

Yes, I'm sure some believe that. Maybe they're correct. Maybe not.

A couple years ago somebody was absolutely sure that X was definitely the sign of blah blah blas-a-dee-blah.

Earlier that Spring some people were sure that some woman's nose glowed in the dark and this was absolutely a sign that wonka-wonka-wonka.

Et al.

Maybe there's something to this. Maybe not. To my way of thinking, it doesn't matter. Do what you're supposed to be doing. If you've got that covered, it doesn't matter if the signs point to a comet landing on Congress (we can hope, right?) or the birth of the Anti-Christ.

Well you've never met me before, and I'm right at least 97 percent of the time. Who cares about the other 4 percent?

I understand. I made a mistake back in the late 70's. I blame disco.

[Jesef]

I was expecting at least an asteroid impact, nothing so far.

FYI, I can't fly, nothing significant happened to me, not even a revelation renaming myself "David" or anything. Alas, I'm just normal, not the DS (Denver Snuffer or Davidic Servant)...

[OCDMOM]

"As Joseph Smith stated, "Although David was a king, he never did obtain the spirit and power of Elijah and the fulness of the priesthood; and the priesthood that he received, and the throne and kingdom of David is to be taken from him and given to another by the name of David in the last days, raised up out of his lineage." The Fourth Thousand Years, by Cleon Skousen. Teachings of Joseph Smith page 339.

[Jesef]

So, Alaris, Dafty, LDSA, any thoughts on the topic post-9/23? Do you think the DS and/or MS are still in hiding or do you think he/they will arise and shine forth soon? Do you think some kind of 7-year clock has started ticking and we'll gradually see tribulations and the disintegration of the U.S.A. (Babylon) over the next few years? What are your expectations at this point?

[dafty]

So, Alaris, Dafty, LDSA, any thoughts on the topic post-9/23? Do you think the DS and/or MS are still in hiding or do you think he/they will arise d shine forth soon? Do you think some kind of 7-year clock has started ticking and we'll gradually see tribulations and the disintegration of the U.S.A. (Babylon) over the next few years? What are your expectations at this point?

my expectations have not changed. Ive always believed his spiritual awakening is a process(I believe alaris can confirm that). It took Joseph Smith approximately 7 years of preperation and ministering of angels to start on a quest of building Zion. Now, if Alaris is right and DS is indeed a younger and spiritually inferior to J.S. being-I would expect at least 7 years of preperation granted to him. Theres this quote from Joseph Smith "for Zion and Jerusalem must both be built up before the 2nd coming of Christ.This will near a half of a century.How long will it take to do this 10 years Yes more than 40 years will pass before this work will be accomplished andwhen these cities are built then shall the coming of the Son of man be" ...So theres no short cuts theres work to be done and it was never happening on 9/23 over night lol...but yes I still believe 9/23 was a fulfillment of rev 12 sign and that DS will be revealed and empowered by God within similar period of time that Joseph Smith was granted for preperation(~7 years)...I also believe him to be marred servant and expect him to start off gathering the elect unto Zion after his miraculous healing...now I do speak for myself only, both Alaris and LDSA probably disagree with me lol

[dafty]

Ps. Little disclaimer: I have never been excommunicated and my commitment to The Lord is unrivalled lol Im also NOT supporting any schism groups/people etc including Denver Snuffer.To me DS teaching is very much scriptual, although I admit I may err in my interpretations.Furtheremore, if Latter day David is David A.Bednar Ive got no probs with that(although, I do admit, I showed before why he does not possess the right lineage, but I might b wrong there.. )

[Alaris]

So, Alaris, Dafty, LDSA, any thoughts on the topic post-9/23? Do you think the DS and/or MS are still in hiding or do you think he/they will arise and shine forth soon? Do you think some kind of 7-year clock has started ticking and we'll gradually see tribulations and the disintegration of the U.S.A. (Babylon) over the next few years? What are your expectations at this point?

I stand by what I have written on my blog (first post) and I still believe firmly the sign was about him and the birth of the Kingdom of God. Though I have certainly speculated on what could happen simultaneously - they were just that. I appreciate Dafty's summary above. Understanding the levels of mankind and what the Davidic Servant's crowning means is paramount in understanding the sign, the why, etc. Avraham Gileadi is also an important source of information here as he wonderfully explains how this servant is graduating from becoming a conditional servant to becoming an unconditional son and inheritor. I am still working on my next article - if time ever permits - that discusses the signs in the temple (carefully respecting their sacredness) and how they fit into the levels of progression. Suffice it to say there are additional signs and the temple gives us the tools to reach Adam's level, which makes perfect sense since the endowment essentially is Adam and Eve school - "Brethren, picture yourselves as though you are Adam."

Once the Lord parts the veil for you, is all done? Nope. We know we receive a white stone upon entering the celestial kingdom that pertains to higher orders of kingdoms.

D&C 130:10 Then the white astone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known;

The Davidic Servant is, I believe, the first man in this creation to graduate from the order of Seraphim to the order of Prince of Peace. His whole ministry will be a parallel spiritual symbol of his eternal, royal achievement and reward. Read Isaiah with this in mind and your mind will be blown. This is a symbol to all of us as to what awaits if we hold out faithful and endure.

I wanted to give some context before answering this question. I was hoping that the sign would be both a spiritual and temporal manifestation. Apparently it was largely spiritual. The temporal manifestations included the calamities that struck between 8/21 and 9/23 I believe were a wake-up call rather than a judgement, since relatively few lives were lost given the massive amounts of devastation. Revelation 12 JST adds a warning to the inhabitants of the sea, which I believe was at least partially fulfilled these last few weeks.

I read Isaiah 19 last night - Gileadi equates Egypt with USA and Assyria with Russia - if he's right, then Isaiah 19 reads like the Davidic Servant may be the one who redeems this fallen nation after it falls and that eventually Russia and the USA will stand together.

http://www.isaiahexplained.com/19#commentary

Edit:

The 9/23 sign itself is a temporal manifestation - an incredible one. Jupiter inside Virgo for 42 weeks! Three planets coming into a beautiful, perfect alignment on 9/23 - the first day of the Jewish new year - the first day of a new moon - the Shabbat Shuva or sabbath that falls between the feast of trumpets and Yom Kippur - Shuva meaning return! The number 7 falling into so many Jewish years and both on the Jewish Calendar and on our Gregorian Calendar. Seven solar flares over seven days during a solar minimum building up to the sign - reinforcing my belief that the Davidic Servant is joining level seven - or the level of Prince of Peace, the archangels, etc.

I also had a special experience while studying and pondering this sign about the symbolism of receiving a celestial crown. I wondered if the two Saturdays before would symbolize the two complete periods (7 days - whole number 7) of the Davidic Servant's ascent through and overcoming of the telestial and the terrestrial as we are shown in the temple. I had forgotten that Jupiter actually crosses through the torso of virgo and was born on 9/9. When I (re)learned this ... wow.

If this sign was a spiritual manifestation, then there may be a physical manifestation next - maybe just personally for him where he must symbolically put the telestial at his feet, then the terrestrial, and then secure his celestial crown.

The "nothing will happen" on 9/23 crowd are so far of base because it gets everyone focused on everything but the sign itself, which sign is truly amazing! To say this sign means nothing in God's eyes is disturbingly presumptuous. To say there had to be some other outward manifestation to reinforce the sign itself goes from looking for signs of the Lord's coming to sign seeking.

[Jesef]

Thanks, LDSA, that makes A TON of sense.

[Alaris]

I agree with a lot of what you have to say LDSA, and I appreciate your posts and contribution to discussion especially about the end times servant. HOWever ... this post seems like your stepping a bit on the sign of 9/23 with a "I knew it was nothing" attitude and a "the sign will really look like such and such." Now I'm not as presumptive as most who weirdly claim this or that won't happen. Perhaps there will be another sign in the heavens that appears more literal - that is certainly possible. The word "shadow" you keep using certainly aligns with the eternal principle of spiritual creation first then temporal creation.

So, Alaris, Dafty, LDSA, any thoughts on the topic post-9/23? Do you think the DS and/or MS are still in hiding or do you think he/they will arise and shine forth soon? Do you think some kind of 7-year clock has started ticking and we'll gradually see tribulations and the disintegration of the U.S.A. (Babylon) over the next few years? What are your expectations at this point?

We are still in the times of types and shadows and this 9/23 thing was just a shadow sign, nothing more. The Josephite is still very much in his box. I never received any manifestation of the Holy Ghost concerning the so-called Revelation 12 Sign and if there was any significance to it, at all, it was merely an indication that the Josephite is soon to be released from his box. But how soon? The Feast of Trumpets announces the new year, so perhaps it means that the Josephite will be released sometime in the next year. That's about all the significance I can extract from this thing without a direct manifestation of the Holy Ghost. The personal signs/witnesses I asked for concerning the Josephite's impending release still haven't occurred, not even a single one, so the 9/23 thing didn't and still doesn't hold any significance to me.

Exhibit A. You start the paragraph saying it was a shadow sign and end with saying it didn't and still didn't hold any significance for you. Well which is it? Because it seems like you are tossing the sign under the bus to build credibility after just stating it was a shadow sign.

The difference between a shadow sign and a literal sign is stark. First, shadow signs can occur out of chronological order and if you take the book of Revelation as a chronology, then the 9/23 thing happened out of chronological order because the stuff in chapters 11 and 10 and 9, etc., still haven't happened.

Can you demonstrate this in the scriptures? There were signs of Jesus birth and death at both promised lands. Though they were symbols or types (or even shadows) they were not preceded by shadows or followed up by literal signs. Or were they? I'm happy to be wrong here.

Also, if a literal sign actually occurred on that date, we'd see Venus and Saturn and Mars and the Moon all align up and quite close to Earth, and then there would be great displays of plasma so that it would actually appear--in the nighttime and perhaps also in the daytime, to all people on the earth who looked up without any telescope--to be a young, pregnant woman with flowing clothes glowing brightly like the Sun, with a crown on her head and 12 points of light around that crown, and the Moon at her feet. It would be an image that would take up much of the sky and everyone around the world would see it, without needing Stellarium or any other program or telescope. And we'd hear sounds like a woman crying in childbirth, coming from the skies. And so on. This is how the literal sign will be. In fact, all the literal heavenly signs will be like this.

I am peripherally aware of the plasma universe and have watched an LDS youtube or two on how plasma / energy may have looked different in the past. I'm totally not against this possibility, but can you demonstrate this in the scriptures? If you are getting this all from your gift of knowledge (I'm not saying you don't have this gift as you and I see eye to eye on many things) - please specify.

Compare that to this shadow sign in which you have points of light in the heavens and then you must imagine that these points of light make up the image (constellation) of a woman, and you must imagine that the 12 points of light are points in an imagined crown, etc. When the real, literal signs start appearing in the heavens, and on earth, people who were alive at this time who thought this and other shadow signs were "the real deal" will all be saying, "Uh, I guess we jumped the gun a bit..."

As much as I'm tempted to say, "Yeah right" here, I do concede that in all my zeal for 9/23 many speculations were a reflection of there being more pomp and flare to the sign. That said, my prior post to this one details just how special and unique and symbolic the sign itself actually was. To say "we jumped the gun" is simply not accurate. Those who look in belief can see the sign itself had far too many "coincidences" to be thrown under the bus as it seems you are doing.

As for 7 years of prosperity/tribulation, the break-up of the nation, etc., all that stuff is of no consequence. It is prophetic nonsense. Whoever prophesies, me included, whose prophesies are real, will prophesy of the times of Elias, not the times of Elias's shadow. There was a prophet and seer and revelator during the time of Elias's shadow, and that guy (Joseph Smith) is now dead. Everyone else who "prophesies" of end times things happening during this time of types and shadows is just guessing on all these things, or eating lots of meat at night and having weird and wonderful dreams, or letting warm fuzzies get the best of them.

(And as far as the disintegration of the USA, I prophesied awhile ago, on my blog, that that won't and can't happen until the plates of Ether appear and are translated and sent forth, so everyone can take a chill pill. This nation will remain until that happens. And anyone saying contrary to this word ain't no prophet.)

I am confused how people - anyone really - can say "prophetic nonsense" unless you have seen all things from the beginning to the end. Even if you have been shown specifics, then sometimes our interpretations or understandings are limited by we whose thoughts are beneath the Lord's thoughts. But to say all this or that is prophetic nonsense - that is an overly generalized statement and certainly is not inviting to others who are studying the topic as am I. And what if that "prophetic nonsense" aligns with what you've blogged?

It seems you may be directing some or all of this to me - please correct me if I am wrong - as I did mention the USA, though I certainly didn't mention any timeline which is why perhaps you may not be directing this at me. So whether you are addressing me or people in general, it's rather bold to say "it is prophetic nonsense" from someone who was mistaken about their own prophecy about Joseph Smith. I don't say that to discredit you, as perhaps you do have the gift of knowledge. However, perhaps some humility is in order as that circumstance certainly illustrates you are not a called prophet but may fall under those whom the Lord promised would dream dreams and see visions in the latter days. Gifts are more readily accepted if the accompanying card is free of insults (your recent subject line - Exhibit B.)

Now the prophecies that speak of the end times speak of the end times, not the times of types and shadows. The end times doesn't begin without the Josephite. He is the first sign to appear:

And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. (Matthew 17:10-11)

You may be right in your interpretation, and it certainly feels right to me that the end times servant would stand up first before the ball starts rolling forward to the gathering of Israel. However, this scripture says he must first appear means "he must first appear and restore all things before such and such" not that he "appears first before ..." what was your point? Before the end times begin. I do happen to agree that he will appear at the beginning but his appearance is the end times not before them.. Also, here is some more context of the scripture you quoted:

Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

This is why I personally hesitate to use the word "Elias." Elias is anything but a clearcut issue for Latter-day Saints. Are we talking about Elijah or Elias as the D&C says they're two people but in the NT Elias is Elijah in Greek. Are we talking about John the Baptist or the end times Elias, and if we are talking about the end times Elias who restores "all things" are we talking about the Elias who did restore the keys to the dispensation of the Gospel of Abraham or the other one? John the Beloved seems to be referred to as Elias in D&C 77:9 - wait I thought John the Baptist was Elias. I do agree with you that "it" (below) is not referring to John but perhaps the angel who gives John the book (at least I think that's your interpretation as well) Anyway, those were rhetorical questions to illustrate that Elias can be an immediate system shut-down for many LDS as soon as they see the word.

D&C 77:9 Q. What are we to understand by the angel ascending from the east, Revelation 7th chapter and 2nd verse?
A. We are to understand that the angel ascending from the east is he to whom is given the seal of the living God over the twelve tribes of Israel; wherefore, he crieth unto the four angels having the everlasting gospel, saying: Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And, if you will receive it, this is Elias which was to come to gather together the tribes of Israel and restore all things.

And after the Josephite is born and enters his box, he must then get out of his box and stand up, making his announcement:

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (Isaiah 11:10)

The Josephite has already come, for he's somewhere out there among the populace, alive and kicking already, but he has not yet stood up, letting the people know he's on the scene. When he stands up and makes his announcement, at that point all the end time prophecy shadows and types will reset, and the end time prophecies will start to be fulfilled literally, in perfect chronological order, starting with the first one all the way to the last. Until then, we will remain in this time of types and shadows and everything that occurs in the world, no matter what it is, should be taken solely as a shadow or type. None of these shadows indicate we have entered the end times.

Agreed on all but the last point. 9/23 is exactly the sign to indicate we've entered the end times....that the time of the gentiles has come to an end and the Lord has set in motion the gathering of Israel. Now perhaps it is a spiritual sign, but even then the spiritual preparations are underway at the least.

I hope you and I can continue to have fruitful discussions in the future where we can disagree in peace. Whether you have gifts or not you are still mortal and fallible as am I, and I certainly have gifts of the spirit of my own. Our quest for truth should trump our desire to "be right." I have personally validated so much of what you have said, and I hope we can have a friendly discussion on the points where we disagree. If your basis is "personal revelation" I personally won't knock you for that even if I disagree with you on finer points.

[Alaris]

I hope you and I can continue to have fruitful discussions in the future where we can disagree in peace. Whether you have gifts or not you are still mortal and fallible as am I, and I certainly have gifts of the spirit of my own. Our quest for truth should trump our desire to "be right." I have personally validated so much of what you have said, and I hope we can have a friendly discussion on the points where we disagree. If your basis is "personal revelation" I personally won't knock you for that even if I disagree with you on finer points.

---

Oh, boy, there's an awful lot of stuff in your post, alaris. Maybe when I have more time I will address it all, but for now, since this is the second time you have brought this one thing up, I will address it:

So whether you are addressing me or people in general, it's rather bold to say "it is prophetic nonsense" from someone who was mistaken about their own prophecy about Joseph Smith.

Now, please, alaris, either put up or shut up. Please show me, from my blog, where I prophesied that Joseph Smith was going to appear and issue the Proclamation at or before a specific date. I never prophesied any such thing. I always said he would appear and issue the Proclamation to a president-elect of the United States, in other words, he would issue it after some presidential election and before its following presidential inauguration, but I never specified which inauguration it would be. I never prophesied any date.

Now, dafty, you were the one who claimed on this forum that I made such a prophecy, and your claim apparently has at least alaris thinking I've made a false prophecy, so, if you still hold to that belief, then please, go to my blog and show me and everyone else here where I prophesied such a thing. And if you can't find any such prophecy, then come back and admit that you were mistaken and that I never did prophesy a date for its fulfillment, to disabuse the minds of the people here.

Also, I just discovered that someone calling himself DRC53 on this forum has claimed I prophesied that there would be an earthquake that would kill all the general authorities by 2012. This is a lie. I never prophesied any such thing. So, again, DRC53, put up or shut up. Show me and everyone else here where I made this prophecy (which I never did.)

This is on par when LDS Anarchist foretold that there would be an earthquake during general conference that would kill all of the general authorities and that it would happen by 2012. That obviously didn't happen. We need to be careful what we become excited about.

Now, I don't care if anyone holds up one of my prophecies. Hold them all up. It makes no difference to me. They will all come to pass. But if you put words in my mouth that I never said, and then say, "False prophecy! False prophet!" then that's just a bald-faced lie. You want to call me on a prophecy I uttered, then QUOTE ME ON IT. Don't paraphrase, don't subtract words from it and don't add words I never wrote or said.

I'll take that as a "No" then.

[Jesef]

3 Nephi 21 seems a bit hard to pin down in terms of some of what has been fulfilled vs what is yet to be. So, LDSA, is it clear to you that what the Lord was referring to there was from the Sealed Portion of the plates and not the stuff actually right there in 3 Nephi? If it's just the stuff we already have in 3 Nephi, then it has been made known (published) to the Gentiles, since Book of Mormon publication started in 1830, etc. Have you received anything concrete on that?

Basically, how does the coming forth of the sealed portion and the repentance of the Gentiles square with the rejection of the fulness by the Gentiles and the bringing (taking away) of the fulness from among them? So all of these BoM verses with D&C 45 basically...

So this timeline:

3 Nephi 16
4 And I command you that ye shall write these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the Gentiles, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their unbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a knowledge of me, their Redeemer.
5 And then will I gather them in from the four quarters of the earth; and then will I fulfil the covenant which the Father hath made unto all the people of the house of Israel.
6 And blessed are the Gentiles, because of their belief in me, in and of the Holy Ghost, which witnesses unto them of me and of the Father.
7 Behold, because of their belief in me, saith the Father, and because of the unbelief of you, O house of Israel, in the latter day shall the truth come unto the Gentiles, that the fulness of these things shall be made known unto them.
8 But wo, saith the Father, unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles—for notwithstanding they have come forth upon the face of this land, and have scattered my people who are of the house of Israel; and my people who are of the house of Israel have been cast out from among them, and have been trodden under feet by them;
9 And because of the mercies of the Father unto the Gentiles, and also the judgments of the Father upon my people who are of the house of Israel, verily, verily, I say unto you, that after all this, and I have caused my people who are of the house of Israel to be smitten, and to be afflicted, and to be slain, and to be cast out from among them, and to become hated by them, and to become a hiss and a byword among them—
10 And thus commandeth the Father that I should say unto you: At that day when the Gentiles shall sin against my gospel, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, and shall be lifted up in the pride of their hearts above all nations, and above all the people of the whole earth, and shall be filled with all manner of lyings, and of deceits, and of mischiefs, and all manner of hypocrisy, and murders, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, and of secret abominations; and if they shall do all those things, and shall reject the fulness of my gospel, behold, saith the Father, I will bring the fulness of my gospel from among them.
11 And then will I remember my covenant which I have made unto my people, O house of Israel, and I will bring my gospel unto them.
12 And I will show unto thee, O house of Israel, that the Gentiles shall not have power over you; but I will remember my covenant unto you, O house of Israel, and ye shall come unto the knowledge of the fulness of my gospel.
13 But if the Gentiles will repent and return unto me, saith the Father, behold they shall be numbered among my people, O house of Israel.
14 And I will not suffer my people, who are of the house of Israel, to go through among them, and tread them down, saith the Father.
15 But if they will not turn unto me, and hearken unto my voice, I will suffer them, yea, I will suffer my people, O house of Israel, that they shall go through among them, and shall tread them down, and they shall be as salt that hath lost its savor, which is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of my people, O house of Israel.
16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, thus hath the Father commanded me—that I should give unto this people this land for their inheritance.
17 And then the words of the prophet Isaiah shall be fulfilled, which say:
18 Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing, for they shall see eye to eye when the Lord shall bring again Zion.
19 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem; for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.
20 The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of God.

With this timeline:

3 Nephi 21
1 And verily I say unto you, I give unto you a sign, that ye may know the time when these things shall be about to take place—that I shall gather in, from their long dispersion, my people, O house of Israel, and shall establish again among them my Zion;
2 And behold, this is the thing which I will give unto you for a sign—for verily I say unto you that when these things which I declare unto you, and which I shall declare unto you hereafter of myself, and by the power of the Holy Ghost which shall be given unto you of the Father, shall be made known unto the Gentiles that they may know concerning this people who are a remnant of the house of Jacob, and concerning this my people who shall be scattered by them;
3 Verily, verily, I say unto you, when these things shall be made known unto them of the Father, and shall come forth of the Father, from them unto you;
4 For it is wisdom in the Father that they should be established in this land, and be set up as a free people by the power of the Father, that these things might come forth from them unto a remnant of your seed, that the covenant of the Father may be fulfilled which he hath covenanted with his people, O house of Israel;
5 Therefore, when these works and the works which shall be wrought among you hereafter shall come forth from the Gentiles, unto your seed which shall dwindle in unbelief because of iniquity;
6 For thus it behooveth the Father that it should come forth from the Gentiles, that he may show forth his power unto the Gentiles, for this cause that the Gentiles, if they will not harden their hearts, that they may repent and come unto me and be baptized in my name and know of the true points of my doctrine, that they may be numbered among my people, O house of Israel;
7 And when these things come to pass that thy seed shall begin to know these things—it shall be a sign unto them, that they may know that the work of the Father hath already commenced unto the fulfilling of the covenant which he hath made unto the people who are of the house of Israel.
8 And when that day shall come, it shall come to pass that kings shall shut their mouths; for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
9 For in that day, for my sake shall the Father work a work, which shall be a great and a marvelous work among them; and there shall be among them those who will not believe it, although a man shall declare it unto them.
10 But behold, the life of my servant shall be in my hand; therefore they shall not hurt him, although he shall be marred because of them. Yet I will heal him, for I will show unto them that my wisdom is greater than the cunning of the devil.
11 Therefore it shall come to pass that whosoever will not believe in my words, who am Jesus Christ, which the Father shall cause him to bring forth unto the Gentiles, and shall give unto him power that he shall bring them forth unto the Gentiles, (it shall be done even as Moses said) they shall be cut off from among my people who are of the covenant.
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.
14 Yea, wo be unto the Gentiles except they repent; for it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Father, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots;
15 And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strongholds;
16 And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thy land, and thou shalt have no more soothsayers;
17 Thy graven images I will also cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee, and thou shalt no more worship the works of thy hands;
18 And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee; so will I destroy thy cities.
19 And it shall come to pass that all lyings, and deceivings, and envyings, and strifes, and priestcrafts, and whoredoms, shall be done away.
20 For it shall come to pass, saith the Father, that at that day whosoever will not repent and come unto my Beloved Son, them will I cut off from among my people, O house of Israel;
21 And I will execute vengeance and fury upon them, even as upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.
22 But if they will repent and hearken unto my words, and harden not their hearts, I will establish my church among them, and they shall come in unto the covenant and be numbered among this the remnant of Jacob, unto whom I have given this land for their inheritance;
23 And they shall assist my people, the remnant of Jacob, and also as many of the house of Israel as shall come, that they may build a city, which shall be called the New Jerusalem.
24 And then shall they assist my people that they may be gathered in, who are scattered upon all the face of the land, in unto the New Jerusalem.
25 And then shall the power of heaven come down among them; and I also will be in the midst.
26 And then shall the work of the Father commence at that day, even when this gospel shall be preached among the remnant of this people. Verily I say unto you, at that day shall the work of the Father commence among all the dispersed of my people, yea, even the tribes which have been lost, which the Father hath led away out of Jerusalem.
27 Yea, the work shall commence among all the dispersed of my people, with the Father to prepare the way whereby they may come unto me, that they may call on the Father in my name.
28 Yea, and then shall the work commence, with the Father among all nations in preparing the way whereby his people may be gathered home to the land of their inheritance.
29 And they shall go out from all nations; and they shall not go out in haste, nor go by flight, for I will go before them, saith the Father, and I will be their rearward.

With these preconditions:

2 Nephi 27
7 And behold the book shall be sealed; and in the book shall be a revelation from God, from the beginning of the world to the ending thereof.
8 Wherefore, because of the things which are sealed up, the things which are sealed shall not be delivered in the day of the wickedness and abominations of the people. Wherefore the book shall be kept from them.
9 But the book shall be delivered unto a man, and he shall deliver the words of the book, which are the words of those who have slumbered in the dust, and he shall deliver these words unto another;
10 But the words which are sealed he shall not deliver, neither shall he deliver the book. For the book shall be sealed by the power of God, and the revelation which was sealed shall be kept in the book until the own due time of the Lord, that they may come forth; for behold, they reveal all things from the foundation of the world unto the end thereof.
11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be revealed unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.
12 Wherefore, at that day when the book shall be delivered unto the man of whom I have spoken, the book shall be hid from the eyes of the world, that the eyes of none shall behold it save it be that three witnesses shall behold it, by the power of God, besides him to whom the book shall be delivered; and they shall testify to the truth of the book and the things therein.

Ether 4
4 Behold, I have written upon these plates the very things which the brother of Jared saw; and there never were greater things made manifest than those which were made manifest unto the brother of Jared.
5 Wherefore the Lord hath commanded me to write them; and I have written them. And he commanded me that I should seal them up; and he also hath commanded that I should seal up the interpretation thereof; wherefore I have sealed up the interpreters, according to the commandment of the Lord.
6 For the Lord said unto me: They shall not go forth unto the Gentiles until the day that they shall repent of their iniquity, and become clean before the Lord.
7 And in that day that they shall exercise faith in me, saith the Lord, even as the brother of Jared did, that they may become sanctified in me, then will I manifest unto them the things which the brother of Jared saw, even to the unfolding unto them all my revelations, saith Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are.

[Z2100]

Basically, how does the coming forth of the sealed portion and the repentance of the Gentiles square with the rejection of the fulness by the Gentiles and the bringing (taking away) of the fulness from among them? So all of these BoM verses with D&C 45 basically...

The gentiles aren't repenting any-time soon, so I expect the sealed portion to come forth when NJ is being built