The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

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freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God
This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.

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Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:27 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God
This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.
You deny Joseph Smith, one who knows the scripture better than anyone save Jesus?
The prophet of the restoration.
The key holder of the dispensation of the fullness of times.

If you knew the true identity of Joseph Smith, maybe you would then understand the peril in which you place your salvation. But since you do not know, mercy applies.

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freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:27 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God
This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.
You deny Joseph Smith, No, I never said I deny Joseph Smith. What I have said is I deny much of his teachings not born of revealed scripture. Big difference. See how you play word games to somehow imply that I am a reprobate?
The prophet of the restoration.
The key holder of the dispensation of the fullness of times.

If you knew the true identity of Joseph Smith, maybe you would then understand the peril in which you place your salvation. But since you do not know, mercy applies.
More horse pucky. I think you will say anything in order to invoke some kind of guilt trip, and using your own judging ways to make it stick. But guess what, this is a fruitless, worthless and ridiculous effort that means absolutely nothing. If today's prophet wanted us to make Joseph Smith an idol, they would quote him more often and tell us that everything he ever said is gospel truth. It saddens me to think you can be so gullible.

Apparently you make scripture fit Joseph's narrative instead of testing Joseph's words to see if they fit the narrative in scripture. Scripture trumps anyone. It is scripture that all these people you use as idols are supposed to relate their knowledge from.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

I'm sorry our conversation went south, but I refuse to be treated as dross so your pride can further the swelling of your head and increasing your level of importance. You could really do well to learn humility.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby LoveIsTruth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:56 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:59 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:27 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
God revealed to me-namely that Adam is our father and God
This is shear horse pucky. Adam is not God The Father nor has he ever been. He is one of "the" Gods that helped Christ form the earth, and he is Michael the Archangel, a Chief Prince, and our foremost Patriarch...that is all.

D&C107:56
56 And Adam stood up in the midst of the congregation; and, notwithstanding he was bowed down with age, being full of the Holy Ghost, predicted whatsoever should befall his posterity unto the latest generation.

Adam

The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the Creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a “fall,” was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family preparatory to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7:9–14; D&C 116; HC 3:385–87; 4:207–8).

From latter-day revelation we learn that Adam had a pure and perfect language that was both written and spoken (Moses 6:5–6); that he was taught the gospel of Jesus Christ (Moses 6:51–63); that he was baptized in water and received the Holy Ghost (Moses 6:64–68); and that he was visited personally by the Lord (D&C 107:55–56). Other references to Adam include Luke 3:38; Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 11:9; 15:20–22, 45–49; 1 Tim. 2:13; 2 Ne. 2:20–26; Mosiah 3:11, 16; D&C 29:34–44; 107:41–57; Moses 2–6. See also Eve; Fall of Adam and Eve.
You deny Joseph Smith, No, I never said I deny Joseph Smith. What I have said is I deny much of his teachings not born of revealed scripture. Big difference. See how you play word games to somehow imply that I am a reprobate?
The prophet of the restoration.
The key holder of the dispensation of the fullness of times.

If you knew the true identity of Joseph Smith, maybe you would then understand the peril in which you place your salvation. But since you do not know, mercy applies.
More horse pucky. I think you will say anything in order to invoke some kind of guilt trip, and using your own judging ways to make it stick. But guess what, this is a fruitless, worthless and ridiculous effort that means absolutely nothing. If today's prophet wanted us to make Joseph Smith an idol, they would quote him more often and tell us that everything he ever said is gospel truth. It saddens me to think you can be so gullible.

Apparently you make scripture fit Joseph's narrative instead of testing Joseph's words to see if they fit the narrative in scripture. Scripture trumps anyone. It is scripture that all these people you use as idols are supposed to relate their knowledge from.

I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.

As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.

And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

I'm sorry our conversation went south, but I refuse to be treated as dross so your pride can further the swelling of your head and increasing your level of importance. You could really do well to learn humility.
I am not trying to get you to do anything. I have said more than once, I am OK if you don't believe it. And if it offends you so much, stop following the topic and don't read my posts.

I tried to offer the olive branch and tried to ask an honest question on this topic - not even Adam is God.
And all I have done since them is defend my basis, the ground work for the question.

I did not demand that you participate. And I have tried to respond to everything you have said.

But you misrepresent me
Apparently you make scripture fit Joseph's narrative instead of testing Joseph's words to see if they fit the narrative in scripture. Scripture trumps anyone. It is scripture that all these people you use as idols are supposed to relate their knowledge from.
You present ad mominem attacks
I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth.
And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.
The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands.
So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends
As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.
But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be.

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me"

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?
Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby LoveIsTruth » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:13 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?
Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?
Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:19 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?
Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?
Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!
All I can do is reveal what Joseph taught, but your reason to ask is not to know but to condemn. You know very well what my answer is, the only answer that is consistent with "Adam the archangel".

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:31 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:56 pm
You present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.
And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands.
You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.
As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.
But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?

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freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:40 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:58 pm
...Do you really believe that you know the scriptures better that Joseph and Brigham ...
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?
Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?
Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!
We're at an impasse, are we?

Hidingbehindmyhandle
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:56 pm
You present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.
And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands.
You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.
As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.
But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets.

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freedomforall
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:56 pm

Adam brought death. Jesus brought life.

1 Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Did anyone know that there are two Adams?

1 Corinthians 15:45
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

D&C 84:16
16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—

Rom. 5:14
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

John 5:21
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

1 Corinthians 15:47
47 The first man (Adam 1) is of the earth, earthy: the second man (Adam 2) is the Lord from heaven.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm

“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)
“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)
"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:13 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:56 pm
You present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
I have to give you credit for being self-willed, head strong and just plain huffy when it comes to the knowledge and testimony of those who know better than to be taken in by this ridiculous doctrine known as the Adam-God doctrine.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.
And I knew, I knew, all those questions you were asking me were a set up in an attempt to get me to accept your views. Well, guess what, it didn't work and cannot work because I know what is in scripture, so maybe it is you that does not understand. Maybe it is you that will find out the hard way and will have to repent. However, you won't know this until your last breath because your pride and judging nature will get in the way at every turn.

The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands.
You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.
As it has been pointed out to you by a variety of forum members how crazy this doctrine is, you just keep ignoring our point of view for yours, clearly a one sided conversation.
But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.
So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 pm

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm
“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)
“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)
"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290
Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. It's in the book!

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:56 pm
You present ad mominem attacks. Ad what? Come on, you know that Joseph has merely pulled things out of the air, not out of scripture, because you cannot quote one verse that says Adam is our Father and God, not one. Neither can you quote one verse that says that Jesus is subservient to Adam. Not one without trying to quote either JS or BY. Let's see you find just one verse saying what you think it says without anyone elses opinions or input.
And nothing and no one can force you to do anything, not even the truth. Ditto. Try saying things without Joseph's help. BTW, you need to offer truth before it can be used to persuade anyone.


The question was clearly not addressed to you, It was addressed to someone that knows and understands.
You're on the wrong forum then, conducting the wrong choir...this is afterall, an LDS website last time I checked. Here, you will receive more truth than you will ever be willing to acknowledge.

So, quite frankly, if I had any say, I wish you would just go away. You first. I wish to never see another post from you and your friends. Truth does hurt doesn't it. Try answering some questions instead of either dodging them or replacing them with more questions as has already been pointed out to you.


But I expect this sticks in your craw and you just can't leave it be. Just like an apostate can leave the church but can't leave it be. False doctrine does stick in our craw, but as of yet, you can't figure that out. You just keep going and going and going hoping to gain some like minded individuals. Why else would you persist so relentlessly. Why can't you just concede and move on?

"Saul, Saul, why persecutith thou me" Now on a pity party, are we? Why do you feel the need to be persecuted when it is only your doctrine that is problematic and vehemently rejected? Can you tell the difference?
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.
So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law.
you demand as though you have a right
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then.
And you ignore "Michael the archangel".
why should I cast my perls among ...

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:32 pm

freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:02 pm
“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
A few more salient facts, which I shall not attempt at this moment to elaborate upon: Adam and Eve transgressed a law and were responsible for a change that came to all their posterity, that of mortality. Could it have been the different food which made the change? Somehow, the life giving element in our bodies, replaced the finer substance which coursed through their bodies before. They and we became mortal subject to illness, pains, and even the physical dissolution called death. But the spirit, which is supreme in the dual man, transcends the body. It does not decompose but proceeds to the spirit world for further experience, with the assurance that after sufficient preparation there, a reunion will take place where the spirit will be housed eternally in s remodeled body of flesh and bones. This time the union will never be dissolved, since there will be no blood to disintegraye and cause trouble. A finer substance will give life to the body and will render it immortal. The ensign p. 5?6; First Presidency Message; President Spencer w. Kimbal; Absolute Truth; Sept 1978
Have they to go to that earth? Yes, an Adam will have to go there, and he cannot do without Eve; he must have Eve to commence the work of generation, and they will go into the garden, and continue to eat and drink of the fruits of the corporeal world, until this grosser matter is diffused sufficiently through their celestial bodies to enable them, according to the established laws, to produce mortal tabernacles for their spiritual children. This is a key for you. The faithful will become Gods, even the sons of God; but this does not overthrow the idea that we have a father. Adam is my Father; (this I will explain to you at some future time;) but it does not prove that he is not my father, if I become a God: it does not prove that I have not a father.” (JD 6:274-275)
“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. Where was Michael in the creation of this earth? Did he have a mission to the earth? He did. Where was he? In the Grand Council, and performed the mission assigned him there. Now, if it should happen that we have to pay tribute to Father Adam, what a humiliating circumstance it would be! Just wait till you pass Joseph Smith; and after Joseph lets you pass him, you will find Peter; and after you pass the Apostles and many of the Prophets, you will find Abraham, and he will say, ‘I have the keys, and except you do thus and so, you cannot pass;’ and after a while you come to Jesus; and when you at length meet Father Adam, how strange it will appear to your present notions. If we can pass Joseph and have him say, ‘Here; you have been faithful, good boys; I hold the keys of this dispensation; I will let you pass;’ then we shall be very glad to see the white locks of Father Adam. But those are ideas which do not concern us at present, although it is written in the Bible—‘This is eternal life, to know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.’” (JD 5:331-332)
"President Young said There never was any world created & Peopled Nor ever would be but what would be redeemed by the shedding of the blood of the Savior of the world. If we are Ever Exalted and Crowned in the presence of God we shall become Saviors of a world which we shall create & people. I know why the Blood of Jesus was shed. I know why the blood of Joseph, & Hiram & others was shed and the blood of theirs will be shed. It is all to answer a purpose and has its Effect. Adam made this world and Suffered himself to take a body and subject himself to sin that Redemption & Exaltation might come to a man. Without descending below all things we Cannot ascend above all things. There never will be any Change in the gospel of Salvation, It is an Eternal gospel and the same in all worlds and always will be to the Endless age of eternity. There will never was a period but what worlds existed & never will be, they all have the same Gosple & Law of salvation." -Wilford Woodruff, Waiting For the World’s End, The Dairies of Wilford Woodruff, Edited by Susan Staker, Pg.290
Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism. It's in the book!
That is good you know that, you've gotten at least part of it right.
Oh, but you are implying that I have taught otherwise aren't you?
Or that Brigham or Joseph taught that?
If you were to come right out and say that, it would be a bold face lye, but then you actually know that.
That is why you veil it.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:21 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:31 pm
Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.
So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law.
Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:37 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:32 pm
Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:20 pm
Jehovah and Michael are two distinct separate individuals, I already addressed this fact. People that attend the temple know this as truth...of whom are willing to really listen and not make up stories.
That is good you know that, you've gotten at least part of it right. No, I am completely right no matter how much arguing you do, period.
Oh, but you are implying that I have taught otherwise aren't you? If the shoe fits.
Or that Brigham or Joseph taught that? The first quote is from BY, so yes.
If you were to come right out and say that, it would be a bold face lye, but then you actually know that. Let he who does not know English, know that to tell a lye is incorrect. The proper word is lie. If I were to come out and say that you teach that Michael is the same person as Jehovah, I would not be lying. It would be you either misinterpreting or denying my answer. Obviously not the same thing.
That is why you veil it. Just like you avoiding taking responsibility for your own thoughts by quoting everyone elses thoughts. And dodging giving answers or asking questions in place of answers. Gee, you've got this veil thing down pat, huh?[/quote]
Last edited by freedomforall on Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am

freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:21 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:28 pm
freedomforall wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:52 pm


Let he who is without sin throw the first stone at the prophets. Reference, please. I don't recall a verse reading this way.
So you're incapable of speaking your own words, scripturally speaking, without regurgitating the words of others? How original.

Did Adam die or not? A very simple yes or no is all that is required.

Do you not want to answer questions using you own brain cells? If not, then maybe you should avoid asking any. That's fair, right? Being unwilling to commit, based on your own comprehension skills is very telling.

Hint: 1 Corinthians 15
[/quote]
You are asking in the same spirit in which Christ was asked which is the greater Law.
Please keep your questions to a bare minimum, so that our answers can be more concise and to the point. Okay?
you demand as though you have a right. As if you don't? You preach Adam-God stuff as if there is no tomorrow. Try denying this observation of truth.
and I have answered the question, you ignored it then. No, you gave the wrong answer knowing scripture states clearly that he died. So, you agree with this?
And you ignore "Michael the archangel". Wrong, again, I said Adam is not God. Are you dyslexic?
why should I cast my perls among ... That would be "pearls", and it isn't among, it is before or unto. Go figure! SEE: JST, Matthew 7:10, and 3 Ne. 14:6
Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am
Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:37 am

freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am
Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person
I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:56 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:37 am
freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am
Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person
I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims
Get over it. If you already knew my answer, then all it was was another setup, of which I expect from you regularly. Having said this, my answer is correct. In the temple they say Jehovah, Michael, not Jehovah Michael. It is you that has things mixed up! Say all you want, but everyone attending the temple that truly listens will agree with me, not you.

Jehovah is not Michael.
God the Father is not Adam or Jehovah
If Jehovah and Michael were the same person we would hear, "I will go down..."
We do hear "WE will go down..."
Therefore, Adam cannot be Michael and God simultaneously. So there we have it.
Again, bye.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby Hidingbehindmyhandle » Wed Sep 13, 2017 3:32 am

freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:56 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:37 am
freedomforall wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:26 am
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:13 am
Now where does this say that Christ and Michael are the same person.
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:“Eloheim looks round upon the eternity of matter and said to His associates and those that He was pleased to call upon at the time for His counselors, with regard to the Elements, Worlds, Planets, Kingdoms, and Thrones; said He, ‘Yahovah Michael, see that Eternal Matter on all sides, this way and that way; we have already created Worlds upon Worlds, shall we create another World? Yes, go and organize the elements yonder in space…Yahovah Michael go and create a world, make it, organize it, form it; and then put upon it everything in all the variety that you have see[n], that you have been in the habit of being associated with in other worlds, of beasts, birds, fowls, fish, and every insect, and creeping thing, and finally, the whole eternity of element is full of life, bring it together and make of it living creatures’. Yahovah Michael goes down and does as he is told. What I am now going to tell you, will no doubt astonish the whole of you.
When Yahovah Michael had organized the world, and brought from another kingdom the beasts, fish, fowl, and insects, and every tree, and plant with which we are acquainted, and thousands that we never saw, when He had filled the Earth with animal and vegetable life, Michael or Adam goes down to the new made world, and there he stays.” (Brigham Young Oct.8, 1854 General Conference Report, Church Archives. Also see the Essential Brigham Young pg. 94)
The above is where.

Christ and Jehovah = same person
Jehovah and Michael = two different people
Michael, Adam = same person
I was waiting for that, you did it again. The text does not contain a comma, you inserted it to make your false claim.
This is the second time for this nonsense.
Yahovah, Michae IS NOT THE SAME AS Yahovah Michael, completely different meanings.
It was explained before and you still change the text to make your false claims
Get over it. If you already knew my answer, then all it was was another setup, of which I expect from you regularly. Having said this, my answer is correct. In the temple they say Jehovah, Michael, not Jehovah Michael. It is you that has things mixed up! Say all you want, but everyone attending the temple that truly listens will agree with me, not you.

Jehovah is not Michael.
God the Father is not Adam or Jehovah
If Jehovah and Michael were the same person we would hear, "I will go down..."
We do hear "WE will go down..."
Therefore, Adam cannot be Michael and God simultaneously. So there we have it.
Again, bye.
I never said Jehovah is Michael, nor did Joseph and Brigham.
They did say, many many times that Adam, Michael and The Father of Jesus is our God.

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LoveIsTruth
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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby LoveIsTruth » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:37 am

Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:19 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:13 pm
Hidingbehindmyhandle wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:58 pm
LoveIsTruth wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:34 pm
Irrelevant!

You still avoided my question: Did Adam die?
Am I obligated to answer your question?
If so, what obligated me to do so?
Ha ha. Nothing really.

The truth is you CANNOT answer this question truthfully without revealing how truly insane your position is!
All I can do is reveal what Joseph taught, but your reason to ask is not to know but to condemn. You know very well what my answer is, the only answer that is consistent with "Adam the archangel".
Say it. What is your answer? You are afraid to say it because it will reveal how utterly insane and contradictory to canonized scripture, including modern canonized scripture received directly through Joseph, your position really is!

For all to see, please say Did Adam die, as God said he would if he partook of the fruit, or not?

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby larsenb » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm

I thought I had posted the following earlier, but can't find the post. It may have been wiped out by the recent crash or difficulties of the forum site.

It is an interview between Stephan Molyneux and Dr. Duke Pesta on the “The Myth of the Noble Savage” at https://youtu.be/aBUYAzet-Fo
Excellent discussion, IMHO. Of course, it gets into Dryden, Hobbs, Rousseau, etc., but also gets into the importance to our civilization of the fundamental concepts of Christianity and the Fall, etc.

Long and somewhat tedious, but I think you would enjoy Pesta’s point of view. Molyneux tags himself as being against religion in other podcasts, but Pesta couches his arguments in a way that doesn’t give Stephan much wiggle room.

Pesta’s viewpoint (along w/Molyneux) really illuminates how the present-day, Leftist orientation of our current young-person crop is sadly lacking, deficient and wrong-headed.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby BeNotDeceived » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:20 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:37 am

For all to see, please say Did Adam die, as God said he would if he partook of the fruit, or not?

Image Your link no-good.

j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be. :mrgreen:
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ignored. Second, it is skewed all out of proportion. Third, it stagnates due to complacency, opposing interests, and lack of funding.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby LoveIsTruth » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:41 pm

BeNotDeceived wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:20 pm
j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be. :mrgreen:
Sorry, not a link. Simply to emphasize for our friend Hidingbehind :)

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:41 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:23 am
The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
2 Nephi 2:22,23
22 And now, behold,
if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, Pretty explanatory, right?
but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. To me this means he and Eve would have remained in the garden forever
And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; No change
and they must have remained forever, just like I conveyed above
and had no end. Now pay close attention to this, and had no end.
23 And they would have had no children; they cannot procreate because it the drive to do so was not in them. Nor were they mortal so she could never conceive children.
wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, stuck in a place by themselves forever
having no joy, for they knew no misery; self explanatory, right?
doing no good, their minds were as little children nearly void of any reasoning. The fall provided what they needed to multiply and replenish the earth as commanded.
for they knew no sin. No right or wrong or anything in between.

Here is Eve telling us her side:

Moses 5:11
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

Adam and Eve could not produce seed, ever, until their fall. This next verse explains what took place:

Moses 5:25
Adam fell that men might be; This is a true statement that children could not be conceived until after the fall.
and men are, after the fall men came about
that they might have joy. self explanatory, right?

More info:

Fall of Adam and Eve

The process by which mankind became mortal on this earth. The event is recorded in Gen. 2–4 and Moses 3–4. The Fall of Adam and Eve is one of the most important occurrences in the history of man. Before the Fall, there were no sin, no death, and no children. With the eating of the “forbidden fruit,” Adam and Eve became mortal, sin entered, and death became a part of life. Adam became the “first flesh” upon the earth (Moses 3:7), meaning that he and Eve were the first to become mortal. After Adam fell, the whole creation fell and became mortal. Adam’s Fall brought both physical and spiritual death into the world upon all mankind (Hel. 14:16–17).

The Fall was no surprise to the Lord. It was a necessary step in the progress of man, and provisions for a Savior had been made even before the Fall had occurred. Jesus Christ came to atone for the Fall of Adam and also for man’s individual sins.

Latter-day revelation supports the biblical account of the Fall, showing that it was a historical event that literally occurred in the history of man. Many points in latter-day revelation are also clarified that are not discernible from the Bible. Among other things it makes clear that the Fall is a blessing and that Adam and Eve should be honored in their station as the first parents of the earth. Significant references are 2 Ne. 2:15–26; 9:6–21; Mosiah 3:11–16; Alma 22:12–14; 42:2–15; D&C 29:34–44; Moses 5:9–13. See also Flesh.
Last edited by freedomforall on Wed Sep 13, 2017 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The True Lessons From the Fall of Adam and Eve

Postby freedomforall » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:44 pm

LoveIsTruth wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:41 pm
BeNotDeceived wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:20 pm
j/k, the underline made me think it were a thread; what a can of worms that would be. :mrgreen:
Sorry, not a link. Simply to emphasize for our friend Hidingbehind :)
What is he hiding from, anyway?


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