My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

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riverrider
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by riverrider »

Sarah wrote:You know Jared, when you first joined AVOW this year, I was suspicious of you too, and now you are really proving to be questionable. You sure have a lot of inside knowledge about this whole situation, and are quick to find the evidence you need to prove your points. I don't think you are Julie, but perhaps someone involved in this whole scheme. My claim was not that Julie and Timetoprepare had similar grammar, but that she claimed to know things that only Julie would know from my private messages to her. The other poster who pointed out Timetoshare's knowledge about what Julie was not getting paid from Mills Crenshaw show only solidified my suspicion.
Ya know Sarah....Jared is just another guy like me. Your suspicious nature has sent you off burning witches and this whole thing is disgraceful....you should be ashamed of yourself, but then if you were capable of that....I wouldn't have to tell you it!!

Jesuslovesme
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Jesuslovesme »

I have deleted this post you all miss understood what was said

I never said that Julie talked about Suzanne in a negative way that would be bad P.R..

You all are just contentious and don't care about truth.

You are all trying to back up what you prayed about.

How dare anyone tell you diffrent.
Last edited by Jesuslovesme on January 9th, 2015, 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sarah
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Sarah »

Jesuslovesme wrote:I have to say I don't have friends who I could ask to blackmail someone for me. If they are willing to do that for me would they blackmail me when they are mad at me?

I only read the review because I question if this review was all lies why would Julie's friends feel the need to back her up?

A kind word turneth away wrath.

Also I have children and when they tell me "I'm not lying mom I did not do it" I usually think it is a lie.

I love how Jesus does things, He will flush out truth!!!!

Although I don't agree with everything in this review but there are some valid points.

I was fascinated as to why Mills would send the reviewer a letter.

I know for a fact that Mills would not let Suzanne Freeman on his radio show for months because of what Julie said on his show. Mills replying with "I just wont go there" Julie offended so many of Mills listeners they sent emal
ils to him and stopped listening to him.
Only when Julie's new book came out all of a sudden Mills let Suzanne his show a few days before Julie. Only giving Suzanne 1 hour and Julie was on for 3.
I really wonder why?
Interesting that you mention Julie saying something negative about Suzanne Freeman. In the evidence I linked to in a previous post, I mention a particular poster who I suspected was Julie incognito. Well, it just so happens that this same poster started a thread all about "his" negative perception of Suzanne Freeman. Very irregular and strange. I knew it was Julie at the time, but your observation just confirms that.

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Bananikka
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Bananikka »

Sarah wrote:You know Jared, when you first joined AVOW this year, I was suspicious of you too, and now you are really proving to be questionable. You sure have a lot of inside knowledge about this whole situation, and are quick to find the evidence you need to prove your points. I don't think you are Julie, but perhaps someone involved in this whole scheme. My claim was not that Julie and Timetoprepare had similar grammar, but that she claimed to know things that only Julie would know from my private messages to her. The other poster who pointed out Timetoshare's knowledge about what Julie was not getting paid from Mills Crenshaw show only solidified my suspicion.
LOL!! (It isn't often that I read something that literally makes me laugh the way that did...)
Last edited by Bananikka on January 6th, 2015, 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bananikka
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Bananikka »

Sarah wrote:
Jesuslovesme wrote:I have to say I don't have friends who I could ask to blackmail someone for me. If they are willing to do that for me would they blackmail me when they are mad at me?

I only read the review because I question if this review was all lies why would Julie's friends feel the need to back her up?

A kind word turneth away wrath.

Also I have children and when they tell me "I'm not lying mom I did not do it" I usually think it is a lie.

I love how Jesus does things, He will flush out truth!!!!

Although I don't agree with everything in this review but there are some valid points.

I was fascinated as to why Mills would send the reviewer a letter.

I know for a fact that Mills would not let Suzanne Freeman on his radio show for months because of what Julie said on his show. Mills replying with "I just wont go there" Julie offended so many of Mills listeners they sent emal
ils to him and stopped listening to him.
Only when Julie's new book came out all of a sudden Mills let Suzanne his show a few days before Julie. Only giving Suzanne 1 hour and Julie was on for 3.
I really wonder why?
Interesting that you mention Julie saying something negative about Suzanne Freeman. In the evidence I linked to in a previous post, I mention a particular poster who I suspected was Julie incognito. Well, it just so happens that this same poster started a thread all about "his" negative perception of Suzanne Freeman. Very irregular and strange. I knew it was Julie at the time, but your observation just confirms that.

I have always had a funny feeling about Suzanne. She is very contentious on social media. She gets angry very easily and when people try to respond to her anger she proudly announces that she simply does not care about what others think of her and basically we are to understand that if she offends somebody with her cold nature then that's just our tough luck. I happen to know Julie, though not intimately I will admit. But I have met her and heard her speak and she is absolutely kind, loving, Christlike and soft spoken. Not an offensive or angry bone in her body and that to me is a good fruit. Hey, maybe I'm Julie Rowe too!!
Last edited by Bananikka on January 6th, 2015, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bananikka
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Bananikka »

Oh, and she freely expresses her disapproval of Julie Rowe and the idea of a call out. She does however encourage us to read her own experiences, which I find ironic.. :/

Jesuslovesme
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Jesuslovesme »

You all are changing the subject!

It took guts for Erin to write this article

Erin put questions on the validity of Julie's story.

Erin had that right to do so.

My question was why Julie's friend felt the need to blackmail her to stop.

Why Mills would not let Suzanne on his show until all of a sudden when Julie's new book came out.

WHY????????

If you don't have facts how can you get the truth.

I did not say that Julie said anything bad
about Suzanne!!! You put words in my mouth.

I think the truth has come out and there are some of you have to defend it.

Thanks Erin

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

Obrien wrote: Try posting the link FIRST next time. That would be convenient. I will read your claims this Christmas morning, in lieu of reading her book that my daughter just bought me...(I'll save the receipt).
Thank you. I thought of that afterwards but it was too late by then.
Jared E wrote:Darn that Julie Rowe, encouraging me to repent, prepare myself spiritually and temporally, and follow the prophet.

How dare she.

All of her firesides and radio appearances have been free. Friends donate their sky miles for her to travel, and she stays in people's homes for free. The nerve!

One last thing. During all of your research of scriptures and quotes from the brethren, you seemed to have missed the teachings that the prophets are far from perfect, have their foibles and misgivings and have to repent, and even the Book of Mormon has the faults of men. And those are ordained prophets, yet from Julie Rowe you apparently expect perfection.

I look forward to your sequel, where you stumble upon President Monson's statement last year when he was in Canada, welcoming the people to Boise, and then all of the other minor discrepancies that he's made.

Or, to put it differently, no I don't. But you have my permission to title it "Tinkling cymbals and sounding brass."

Peace out.

Jared
It's interesting that you seem to put Julie on the same level as the scriptures and the Prophets and Apostles. I know who my Prophet is and it isn't Julie. Even still, I have acknowledged that "there is indeed many things in her book that are good and true and have benefited many people," but perhaps you missed that in your rush to condemn. Furthermore, and with all due respect Jared, your flippant remarks are off base and does nothing to forward an honest, sincere, and respectful discussion of the subject matter. Of course nobody (other than Jesus Christ) has lived a perfect life. That however doesn't excuse us from seeking after perfection because Christ himself commanded us to "be ye therefore perfect" (Matthew 5:48). My document is merely an attempt to seek after truth and share it with others. In fact Julie herself has encouraged us to seek after truth by asking God if her account is true. I have done this and my document is, in part, the result of my efforts and the answers I have been given. My labor, just as you spoke of Julie's, is an effort to "encourag[e people] to repent, prepare [themselves] spiritually and temporally, and follow the prophet."
TimeToPrepare wrote:This is my first post. I've followed the Julie Rowe story on here for several months because I am a close personal friend of hers.
Thank you for coming forward to try and share your beliefs.
TimeToPrepare wrote:I can with 100% certainly verify that she has experienced all that she has reported. I have known her for over 20 years and was a member of her ward at the time of her NDE. She has had dreams and visions dating back to her childhood, and some of her ancestors have had them as well. She did in fact have and NDE experience in addition to numerous other revelatory experiences. She has literally had so many that I don't know how she would keep the timing and sequence of them straight.

To the extent she is human, like us all, there may be personal biases and interpretations in the recounting of her experience. That is how we, as humans, go through life - through the lens our past. I know she has no desire to mislead or deceive - only to add her personal witness to many others of what she has experienced.
I'm not entirely sure how you "can with 100% certainly verify that she has experienced all that she has reported." Did you witness and/or experience her NDE for yourself? Have you seen her dreams, visions, and "other revelatory experiences" just as she has? Unless you have, or God has revealed it to you personally, you are simply taking her word for it. For what it's worth I believe that Julie has experienced something, but whatever that something is I don't believe that it happened as "she has reported." Based on the evidences, as I have enumerated within the document, I am more inclined to think they are dreams she has tried to pass off as a NDE. You suggest that she has had literally so many (dreams? NDE's?) that it would be difficult to keep timing and sequences straight. Fair enough, but timing and sequences is just a very minor part of the whole. Let us examine this very minor detail though. Julie herself has said that she has recorded many (if not most all) of her dreams in her journal - therefore it should be a fairly simple matter of keeping her dreams in proper order and/or the details correct. Personally though there are far greater issues at hand than timelines.
TimeToPrepare wrote:Here is what I know about her personally, and I mention this to correct so many of the things I've seen on here that are incorrect, and in many cases, flat out lies. It has been stated that she was inactive during her NDE. She has been active her entire life and was serving in the Relief Society presidency at the time of her NDE. She attends the temple regularly, in most cases monthly despite the temple being over fours hours away from her most of the time I've known her.
Please forgive my ignorance, but where exactly has it "been stated that she was inactive during her NDE?" I wasn't even aware that any such accusation has been made. Surely I didn't make any such claim. You are the first (and only) person to bring such statements forth to my attention. With all due respect it is you that has made a "flat out lie" by accusing me of making this statement when in fact I have not.
TimeToPrepare wrote:It has been stated that she is writing her books to make money and promote herself. She did not seek to have her witness published. Rather, she was approached by others that knew of her experience and were inspired to contact her about publishing it. She makes very little from this - around $1 per book, and given her commitment of time to the book, it is a net loss for her.
Hmm... another one I must have missed. Nowhere have I stated that Julie wrote her books to make money or promote herself. In fact your post is the first time "money" is even mentioned in this thread. Nor have I ever mentioned self-promotion as a motive. For clarification here is what I did say:
Why these books? What is Julie’s motive or purpose in writing them? I don’t know Julie’s heart or mind (I suppose only God and Julie does), and therefore can’t fully know her motives in writing her books. We do have her words, however, which suggest that she was commanded and made a commitment to God(?) to write it (see p. ix). However, this is very suspect because her account is riddled with problems, false teachings and plagiarism.
The only time I mention a possible motive is in point #85. Here I talk about "energy healing" as a possible motive, but I very clearly say that this is purely speculation based on her own words and feelings I have been prompted with. Again though you are lying and bearing false witness of me by accusing me of claiming that money and self-promotion is her motives. Such is not true and I never made such a statement.
TimeToPrepare wrote:The people criticizing her her and on other websites have published flat out lies about her concerning this about which they know nothing. The additional innuendos they use directly contradict what they know to be true. One of the detractors has never read Julie's books, and when she contacted Julie to accuse her of lying, Julie took the time to respond and asked to speak to her directly. The person declined to talk about how she felt and instead is claiming that Julie "sought personal information about her" in response to here criticism. It is unfortunate that people can hide behind a keyboard and anonymously criticize others - even when others have reached out to those spreading lies in an effort to understand them, communicate with them, build a bridge with them, and ultimately help them.
Who is lying and publishing "flat out lies" here? So far you are the only one to have clearly published lies. As yet you have not been able to point out where I have lied. Furthermore, you are not only lying but also acting in hypocrisy by accusing others of hiding "behind a keyboard and anonymously criticiz[ing] others" when you yourself are so doing. I have very clearly attached my name to my words and document. I have no desire to be anonymous - I have always been open and honest in who I am. You are the one hiding in the shadows behind the mask of anonymity criticizing others by not revealing yourself. But that is fine - the time will come when "the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed" (D&C 1:3).
TimeToPrepare wrote:There are more things that could be said about the people spreading these lies. Their personal histories are not unknown, and tell a great deal about their motives .
Again you accuse others of lying with no evidence to support your claim, and in fact expose yourself as a liar. You claim to know my personal history, and that it tells much about my motives. Quite frankly though my personal history has absolutely no bearing on my motives whatever. I'm actually quite baffled on how you came to draw this conclusion. I can't even begin to imagine how my personal history has anything whatever to do with my motives in any way, shape, or form. But of course you are more than welcome to believe whatever you want, even if it isn't true.
TimeToPrepare wrote:Please listen to the tone of the attacks and contrast that with the tone of Julie's message. One seeks to uplift and encourage people to get closer to God, be more obedient to Gospel principles and prepare according to Church leaders' inspired guidance. The other bears the spirit of malice, negativity, and seeks to destroy and hurt others. By their fruits you shall know them.
Finally. Something I can agree with you on. Yes dear reader, please listen to the tone (and substance) of the "attacks" and contrast them one with another. "By their fruits ye shall know them" indeed.
TimeToPrepare wrote:As I'm sure everyone can gather from this post, I am a close friend of Julie's. I could go into much more in defending her from false accusations and exposing these two on a very personal level for who they are. My goal is not to be contentious, but rather to set the record straight. Please take it from someone that has known Julie for over 20 years that she is true to her word. Again, contrast that with total strangers on the internet that neither know her nor have read her books.
Please do "go into much more in defending her from false accusations." You have as yet done nothing to expose any "false accusations" and in fact only exposed yourself for making false accusations. I truly would like to hear something of substance that disproves what I have brought forth. I would rather personally hear from Julie herself, but as a "close friend" who "has known Julie for over 20 years" I welcome your opinion and would love to see any strong evidences to disprove my points. As I said before, "I hope I can be proven wrong and I will be happy to acknowledge any errors and correct them."

Furthermore, your words show that you may be the one (or closely affiliated with the one) who sent the threatening letter to me. You claim to know my personal history (which granted wouldn't be too hard to find), and show a willingness and even eagerness to "expos[e] these two on a very personal level for who they are." By doing so you also show an utter and complete lack of faith in the efficacy of the atonement of Jesus Christ. My past has been resolved both legally and with the Church. I know that I have been forgiven of my past transgressions. I know that the atonement of Jesus Christ is very real for I speak from personal experience. I hope, for your sake, that you can come to believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ - for we all need to repent and rely upon Him for salvation.
Lizzy60 wrote:
iamse7en wrote:The book is bad and mostly a waste of time, and reading this review which feels as long as the book is also a waste of time. I can't believe you spent that much time writing this up. Yikes.
Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. I can't believe someone spent that much effort to go through Julie's posts on AVOW, and compile all this. All because he doesn't believe her. There may be some other motive......
My motive, as mentioned previously, is to come to know the truth and to share it with others. The Lord has commanded us in seeking for personal revelation to "study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right." That studying it out in your mind is an important part of receiving personal revelation. Furthermore, Elder L. Tom Perry once taught:
In order to find answers, the Lord says, we not only have to search for them, but we have to search diligently. That means there is effort involved. We really have to work at it. One of the best places to search for answers is in the scriptures, and searching diligently means reading them again and again, prayerfully and with faith, until the answers become apparent. ... Search after truth, and remember that word diligently. That doesn’t mean halfheartedly. That means with all your might. It is also important to keep the commandments so you can feel the promptings of the Spirit. Part of being diligent is being worthy.
I have sought to do as the Lord has commanded by doing my part in searching "diligently" after truth and to find answers. How many people have simply asked the Lord for an answer as to whether Julie's book/account was true without first putting in the effort to study it out and search to know whether it was true? Can I be faulted for trying my hardest, with all my might, to follow the Lord's counsel in seeking after truth and to find answers?

Thank you "deep water" for your insights and comments on the importance of seeking after knowledge.
durangout wrote:While many of the same read flags waved at me, I don't agree with all of your points, but overall yes you are right. JR's account is a load of steaming bovine reconstituted alfalfa. Whew! you put a lot of effort into this...it surprises me that you missed a couple obvious red flaggs that by which you can quickly dissmiss everything she has to say.

You mention Mills' radio show. Have you ever wondered why he gave her 3, full 3-hr shows to proimote her story? In the 20+ yers I've been listening to him he's never done that. I'd bet it was paid programing, an infomercial if you will. Thoughts?

Her 3rd apprearance on his show really gave her away. She backtracked, contraditcted herself and had to have Mills prompt and rescue her a few times.
I would be happy to hear what points you disagree with me on. I have had a number of friends share their disagreements which in turn has brought me to greater knowledge and truth. I have changed a number of items and acknowledged corrections (such as point #36) because of their valued insights. I would also be interested in hearing about what red flags you have spotted which I missed (is it the radio show things you mention?). To be honest I haven't fully listened to all of the radio shows, only portions of two of them.

As for Mills Crenshaw, I'm not able to comment. I don't know enough (anything really) about the situation. From my limited interactions and listening to his show I believe he is a good and honest man who has been doing his best to warn people. To be fair Julie's account truly is very intriguing, interesting, and captures the imagination. There is much interest by a great many people in knowing what is coming - this is a good thing because we have been commanded to watch and be ready. I can find no fault in Mills or anyone else in wanting to share and warn people of things that are coming - as long as it is done so in truth and righteousness.
TimeToPrepare wrote:No paid promotions for any of her books. There has been literally no money paid for advertising in any way shape or form. In fact, it was only after a series of conversations over a period of months that Julie reluctantly agreed to appear on the Mills Crenshaw show. She is very wary of what she has published being treated lightly or "cast before swine."
Thank you for sharing this. I really do appreciate your opinions even though it may seem to some like I don't.
TimeToPrepare wrote:Your post speculating in a negative way and quite falsely is one reason I have chosen to post here. There are just so many false statements being made on this forum.

As I previously mentioned, Julie's record is true to her experience. If it is inaccurate, it is not through any desire on her part to mislead or fabricate anything. It is for each of you to determine for yourselves what value it is and what truths it contains. By the fruit it has born thus far, I believe it is nothing short of inspired communication. I have seen it help people strengthen their testimonies, recommit themselves to the gospel, return to church in cases of inactivity, and further study the scriptures and seek answers for themselves. I know of literally hundreds of people that have reached out to Julie with similar experiences that have witnessed similar scenes. To witness this first hand through knowing her has been nothing short of amazing. I would encourage everyone to take the message to heart - prepare both spiritually and temporally by drawing closer to Christ and the teachings of his Prophet and Church leaders.
Again, please point out to me wherein I have made false statements - I am willing to correct any falsehoods because it is truth that I am after. So far you haven't pointed out a single thing wherein I have lied.

I don't doubt or question that some good has come from Julie's books. What I do doubt and question is the veracity and divinity of her account. There is much in her account which doesn't pass the test of truth as I know it.

And the fact that something can produce good results and bring about much good is not proof that what caused it is in itself good. For example, Satan tempted Eve to partake of the forbidden fruit by using truths mixed in with lies. The result - The Fall - was absolutely a good thing and very necessary to the fulfillment of God's will and the Plan of Salvation. Likewise, Julie's account which has mixed truths with lies has been able to accomplish much good - but that doesn't excuse or justify the fact that there are lies and half-truths being perpetrated and used therein. Many apostates have fallen away from the Church because of Satan's deceptions and truths that are mixed with just a little bit of a lie. It really doesn't take much and Satan knows this.
TimeToPrepare wrote:As i mentioned, I am a close friend to Julie. I have known her for over 20 years, and we talk regularly about what is going on with her books, appearances, etc.

My purpose is to correct easily identifiable falsehoods in this thread. I don't wish to debate, argue, contend, or criticize others - only to correct falsehoods and speculation that I know are not true. As previously stated, Julie's experiences are genuine. Whether others choose to agree with them or not is up to each individual and a personal decision that I respect. So, you won't find me arguing about doctrine, authority etc. You won't find me trying to dissect the things that seek to prove certain things about what she has published. I see that as a creating bad energy and feeding the spirit of contention. That is not in harmony with her as a person or her message nor is it worth my time. Knowing Julie the way I do, it is hard for me see blatant falsehoods about her go uncorrected. That is why I have posted what I have.
Well then by all means, please correct these "easily identifiable falsehoods in this thread." I have about 100 points that should be easily corrected if they are indeed "blatant falsehoods." Please start from the beginning and explain to everyone how each and every point is an "easily identifiable" and "blatant falsehood." I would be more than happy to acknowledge any mistake and correct them myself if they can be proven false.

What's more, discussing truth and exposing falsehoods - even though it can be a hard and painful thing (and create "bad energy" as you put it) - is not, in and of itself, an evil thing. In fact we have been counseled to take a courageous and moral stand against evil. In the April 2014 General Conference Elder Holland taught:
And therein lies a message for every young man and young woman in this Church. You may wonder if it is worth it to take a courageous moral stand in high school or to go on a mission only to have your most cherished beliefs reviled or to strive against much in society that sometimes ridicules a life of religious devotion. Yes, it is worth it, because the alternative is to have our “houses” left unto us “desolate”—desolate individuals, desolate families, desolate neighborhoods, and desolate nations.

So here we have the burden of those called to bear the messianic message. In addition to teaching, encouraging, and cheering people on (that is the pleasant part of discipleship), from time to time these same messengers are called upon to worry, to warn, and sometimes just to weep (that is the painful part of discipleship). They know full well that the road leading to the promised land “flowing with milk and honey”6 of necessity runs by way of Mount Sinai, flowing with “thou shalts” and “thou shalt nots.”7

Unfortunately, messengers of divinely mandated commandments are often no more popular today than they were anciently, as at least two spit-upon, potato-spattered sister missionaries can now attest. Hate is an ugly word, yet there are those today who would say with the corrupt Ahab, “I hate [the prophet Micaiah]; for he never prophesied good unto me, but always [prophesied] evil.”8 That kind of hate for a prophet’s honesty cost Abinadi his life. As he said to King Noah: “Because I have told you the truth ye are angry with me. … Because I have spoken the word of God ye have judged me that I am mad”9 or, we might add, provincial, patriarchal, bigoted, unkind, narrow, outmoded, and elderly.

It is as the Lord Himself lamented to the prophet Isaiah:

“[These] children … will not hear the law of the Lord:

“[They] say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:

“Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.”10

Sadly enough, my young friends, it is a characteristic of our age that if people want any gods at all, they want them to be gods who do not demand much, comfortable gods, smooth gods who not only don’t rock the boat but don’t even row it, gods who pat us on the head, make us giggle, then tell us to run along and pick marigolds.11

Talk about man creating God in his own image! Sometimes—and this seems the greatest irony of all—these folks invoke the name of Jesus as one who was this kind of “comfortable” God. Really? He who said not only should we not break commandments, but we should not even think about breaking them. And if we do think about breaking them, we have already broken them in our heart. Does that sound like “comfortable” doctrine, easy on the ear and popular down at the village love-in?

And what of those who just want to look at sin or touch it from a distance? Jesus said with a flash, if your eye offends you, pluck it out. If your hand offends you, cut it off.12 “I came not to [bring] peace, but a sword,”13 He warned those who thought He spoke only soothing platitudes. No wonder that, sermon after sermon, the local communities “pray[ed] him to depart out of their coasts.”14 No wonder, miracle after miracle, His power was attributed not to God but to the devil.15 It is obvious that the bumper sticker question “What would Jesus do?” will not always bring a popular response.

At the zenith of His mortal ministry, Jesus said, “Love one another, as I have loved you.”16 To make certain they understood exactly what kind of love that was, He said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments”17 and “whosoever … shall break one of [the] least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be … the least in the kingdom of heaven.”18 Christlike love is the greatest need we have on this planet in part because righteousness was always supposed to accompany it. So if love is to be our watchword, as it must be, then by the word of Him who is love personified, we must forsake transgression and any hint of advocacy for it in others. Jesus clearly understood what many in our modern culture seem to forget: that there is a crucial difference between the commandment to forgive sin (which He had an infinite capacity to do) and the warning against condoning it (which He never ever did even once).
And again, in our most recent Conference, Elder Lynn G. Robbins taught:
Trying to please others before pleasing God is inverting the first and second great commandments (see Matthew 22:37–39). It is forgetting which way we face. And yet, we have all made that mistake because of the fear of men. In Isaiah the Lord warns us, “Fear ye not the reproach of men” (Isaiah 51:7; see also 2 Nephi 8:7). In Lehi’s dream, this fear was triggered by the finger of scorn pointed from the great and spacious building, causing many to forget which way they faced and to leave the tree “ashamed” (see 1 Nephi 8:25–28).

This peer pressure tries to change a person’s attitudes, if not behavior, by making one feel guilty for giving offense. We seek respectful coexistence with those who point fingers, but when this fear of men tempts us to condone sin, it becomes a “snare” according to the book of Proverbs (see Proverbs 29:25). The snare may be cleverly baited to appeal to our compassionate side to tolerate or even approve of something that has been condemned by God. For the weak of faith, it can be a major stumbling block. For example, some young missionaries carry this fear of men into the mission field and fail to report the flagrant disobedience of a companion to their mission president because they don’t want to offend their wayward companion. Decisions of character are made by remembering the right order of the first and second great commandments (see Matthew 22:37–39). When these confused missionaries realize they are accountable to God and not to their companion, it should give them courage to do an about-face.
I have thus tried to take a stand against something that I believe to be wrong. I have, to the best of my ability, done so with love and compassion. There are times that I have made mistakes, and in each instance when it has been brought to my attention I have tried to acknowledge and correct the mistakes.
Jared E wrote:Okay, this is turning into farce.

Anyone who has listened to Julie's interviews, or attended any of her firesides, has heard her say multiple times that she does not self promote, and does not get paid for promotion. Here, the very fact that a person repeat that, without citing precisely where they heard it,leads you to conclude that it's Julie in disguise?

Also, apparently Julie is not allowed to talk to her friends about things that people email to her?why is it so unreasonable for you to believe that a close friend of hers could be aware of what the two of you have discussed? Sadly, I believe that you have become blinded by divisiveness here, interpreting everythingas some sort of evidence that furthers your cause. Please look at things objectively.

For example, I could do the same thing and say that since nobody has seen this so called threatening letter that you allegedly received from Salt Lake, then it is not real, and you are out to deceive. Playing the role of doubting Thomas.
I agree with your point. To be fair though, the anger and hostility which has been leveled against us does have an affect of putting one on their guard and perhaps even acting irrationally. I too was tempted to call "TimeToPrepare" out as Julie because this person created a new account on the very day I publicized my review, then threw accusations that we were posting "flat out lies" and other incendiary remarks without anything to back it up. He/She then went on to accuse us of hiding behind anonymity when he/she was themselves was doing the very thing they accused us of. They also mentioned that our "personal histories" were not unknown to them and then expressed a willingness and even eagerness to publish that information as a personal attack. And finally, Julie herself has yet to come here and address any of the issues herself personally - instead we have an anonymous person coming and leveling as many attacks as they can in order to defend Julie. Clearly this someone has an interest in trying to protect Julie from scrutiny. For what it's worth though, I'm willing to take this person at their word and believe that they are who they say they are - even though they really haven't come forth and identified themselves.

Jared, I would also ask that you please look at things objectively. Obviously you have an interest in defending Julie which has colored your remarks as well. I don't fault you for this. But I do ask that you objectively examine the evidences I have put forth and answer in all honesty whether there is merit to what I have said.

Also, in regards to the letter - for what it's worth I am telling the truth about the letter. I have shown it to a number of people, including my Bishop, Stake President, and I even sent a copy to Church headquarters. I also filed a police report and they have the original. If you or anyone else doesn't believe me that is your choice... but I suspect that you do believe me. Regardless, whether in this life or the next, the truth of all things will be made known and this cowardly act of trying to silence and humiliate me will turn against the perpetrator(s) to their shame.
Jared E wrote:Let's suppose for a moment that we've all been hoodwinked, and Julie has been pulling our legs. What has she possibly gained from this?

First, financial. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are familiar with publishing rights and fees, and therefore you know what a first-time author stands to receive from two softcover books that retail for $14.95. Those books are available in all of four places: Amazon, Seagull Book, Deseret Book, and AVOW. It would surely be in her financial interest to go mainstream, but hasn't.

Also, her public appearances have all been free. Not even a $1 suggested donation for maintenance. Completely free. That was surely a poor business decision on her end. Moreover, she pays out of her own pocket to travel to those venues.

Once could hypothesize that Dr. Nelson is paying her to "promote" The Emotion Code. If so, show me the receipts. Show me how his sales have increased over the past year. Show me what her cut was. Throughout all of this you have presented theory, but no findings of fact.

Second, fame. In 8 months, she has appeared on AM radio shows a total of four times. She has not been on Oprah or Conan, has not mass-mailed the media, has not taken out newspaper ads, and does not offer motivational speaking seminars.

Third, a secret combination to plant seeds of apostasy in people's hearts. In your extensive research, you likely heard her say dozens of times, "don't take my word for it, but go straight to the source of all truth." "Follow the prophet." "If you have procrastinated the day of your repentance, do not delay, do it now." "Pray and ask The Lord what your mission and purpose in life are." "I do not have stewardship over anyone but my family, and I do not speak on behalf of the church." "I cannot answer people's personal questions because I do not know what The Lord has in store for them. They need to fast, ponder and pray for themselves."

And so on.

Again, let's suppose that you two have unearthed the truth and she is a big phony.

Have people left the church?
Have people stopped fasting and praying?
Have people stopped preparing their minimum one year supply of food and essentials?
Have people stopped attending their meetings?
Have people stopped listening to the prophet?

Again, what has she personally gained from all of that? Please stop with the theory and show us your findings of fact.

Thanks.
Speculating on motives is perhaps an exercise in futility. As I said before only perhaps Julie and God can know her motives. What is factual, and what I have enumerated within the document, is that there are a great many things that call into question the truthfulness of her account. Any one by themselves could be easily excused as a simple mistake or error, but taken as a whole they paint a picture of something else entirely. Still, even though it is perhaps an exercise in futility, I will try and answer your honest question in a future post because I feel there is merit to it.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

BrianM wrote:My comment is not directed in regards to Julie Rowe specifically but in regards to the hypotheticals you have brought up (Jared E). I don't care much whether Julie is telling the truth or is a phony - it doesn't effect me one bit.

It's possible that a deceiver could play a role that involves a lot of truth mixed with a few lies calculated to take people off course even just "1%" and send them towards the wrong destination. Just a thought.

And just a reminder to everyone participating in this discussion -- keep it respectful and civil or the thread gets locked :)
Thank you Brian. I too hope that everyone will be respectful and civil in this discussion.
Jared E wrote:Thank you Brian. What you say is true, and I likewise appreciate Julie's frequent statement for the listener to not take her word for it, but to pray about it.

But anyhow, I have one last thing for Sarah. You said that the new poster "Time to prepare" (TTP) is Julie in disguise. I can't speak for others, but I can tell very clearly that TTP is a different person because his grammar is very different. Sure, they both engage in the same subject matter, but so do you and Erin, and it's not fair for me to say that you are Erin in disguise.

As for language differences, you may have noticed it in the Book of Mormon: there is a striking difference between Nephi and Jacob's language on his small plates and Mormon's language in the abridgement of the large plates. Even though all three authors shared journal-type histories and records of sermons, the grammar is very different.
Thank you Jared. I agree with you. Let's not turn this discussion into a debate about who is who or level accusations that aren't warranted or true.

I am interested though in hearing people's opinions on the subject matter I have presented. As yet nobody has come forth with anything of substance to discredit anything I have said. I truly would like the truth to be made known. If anything I have said is false or out of line then I invite anyone to please point it out and back up your belief with something of substance. It really shouldn't be all that difficult for truth to be defended - though it does take courage.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

Sarah wrote:You know Jared, when you first joined AVOW this year, I was suspicious of you too, and now you are really proving to be questionable. You sure have a lot of inside knowledge about this whole situation, and are quick to find the evidence you need to prove your points. I don't think you are Julie, but perhaps someone involved in this whole scheme. My claim was not that Julie and Timetoprepare had similar grammar, but that she claimed to know things that only Julie would know from my private messages to her. The other poster who pointed out Timetoshare's knowledge about what Julie was not getting paid from Mills Crenshaw show only solidified my suspicion.
Please be careful of what you say Sarah and don't be too quick to rush to judgement.

Niyr
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Niyr »

Thank you Onsdag for putting all this together.

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

Onsdag, Thank you so much for doing all this research, I have found it very enlightening.

Ever since I read her book back in the summer I have been 'on the fence' about her credibility. You gave me enough evidence to push me off. I've just reread the book 'the boy who came back from heaven' because I heard about his admitting that it was false and I wanted to refresh my memory, so then finding your review, made it more plausible that a good person could write a book like this, claiming it to be true, but in fact being lies. I'm quite certain that the Malarkey family were not bad people, and they probably thought they were glorifying god by writing a book to 'bring people to christ'. I don't think people do this with the intent to do evil; why they do it, they would have to answer, but there are many reasons.

I disagreed with some of your contentions, but you are spot on that she has borrowed heavily from scripture and the bible dictionary--there is NO DOUBT in my mind. The wording she used was no coincidence.

Also, your finding her postings at AVOW were more evidence that she is not being honest with her readers. I have read her claim that she did not read other NDE's, so that she would not taint her own but then you and ramsrn proved that she was very familiar with Sarah Menet, before she wrote her book. You gave two examples of things she saw that mirrored Sarah Menet, which Julie could claim was simply that they saw the same event. That is not the problem; what harms her credibility is that she lied about not reading others' NDE's, she admitted that she had because she admitted that she saw similar things--she could not have known this if she had not read Menet's experiences.

The other disconcerting thing I find is that on AVOW she talks about her dreams and visions, something that she had experienced for over a decade at that time. But, I don't remember her saying anything about having dreams and visions in her book--I don't have the copy with me, Does anyone remember this? I was wondering if anyone else remembers if Julie Rowe ever admitted in the book that she had many prophetic dreams? If she did not, then I think that is another big red flag that she would not openly share that important aspect about herself.

The transcript of one of her interviews with mills crenshaw was also troubling to me--after reading it I felt she used techniques honed by psychic entertainers to keep their audience believing in their abilities and not catching themselves in a prediction that could prove them false.

I also worry because of her work in Energy Healing; while there may be some value in it, I'm always a little suspicious of people who are too heavily invested in New Age type things.

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Daryl
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Daryl »

generally speaking... ugh!

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

An excerpt from the post by Onsdag on Julie Rowe's dreams and her book 'A greater tomorrow':
Millenial Dreams – temple work, going about life – dreams about family in the millennium. Mulitiple dreams with this theme.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 99-100) and read thusly “… I saw that as time progressed into the future, the need for this [temple] work increased and continued. Much of what we do during the Millennium will be related to family history work, temple work and missionary work.”)

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendnego – angel in the fire. Testimony that the Lord is aware of us, our persecutions and struggles and that he will protect us. There are angels all around us, we just usually can’t see them.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 50) and reads thusly “I actually saw a fourth person in the flames that I knew was an angel of God. He helped protect them, and they emerged from the furnace unharmed. … This helped assure me that the Lord is aware of us individually, along with our persecutions and struggles. There are angels all around us. We usually just can’t see them.”)

Daniel and the Lions Den –angel – Testimony of ancient prophets and the Lord protecting the righteous.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 50-51) and reads thusly “… He was also assisted by an angel of the Lord. Daniel stood for truth and was protected as the lions were subdued and had no desire to attack him. It strengthened my testimony of the ancient prophets and the Lord protecting the righteous.” Note that virtually everything from this “dream” is used as part of her NDE)

City of Enoch - how righteous the city was and reminder that the Lord blesses us when we obey his commandments.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 33-34) and reads thusly “… The righteous people in this city are a reminder that the Lord blesses us when we obey his commandments, and as the events of the last days transpire, we can receive that same kind of protection through our obedience and faithfulness.”)

Tower of Babel – what absolute chaos for most people. Once again, the Lord way aware of his people on an individual basis and blessed the righteous. Importance of passing on scripture and righteous teachings to our children.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 37-38) and reads thusly “… This event was absolute chaos for most people as they tried to make sense of it. … Once again, the knowledge came to me that the Lord is aware of his people on an individual basis and he blesses the righteous. There is great importance of passing on scriptures and righteous teachings to our children.”)
Now her book makes so much sense! When I read her book in the context of her having experienced years of dreams about biblical prophets and events, her peculiar writing style makes complete sense. Thank you again Onsdag for posting this and doing all this research. It is all becoming clear to me.

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

TimeToPrepare wrote:As i mentioned, I am a close friend to Julie. I have known her for over 20 years, and we talk regularly about what is going on with her books, appearances, etc.

My purpose is to correct easily identifiable falsehoods in this thread. I don't wish to debate, argue, contend, or criticize others - only to correct falsehoods and speculation that I know are not true. As previously stated, Julie's experiences are genuine. Whether others choose to agree with them or not is up to each individual and a personal decision that I respect. So, you won't find me arguing about doctrine, authority etc. You won't find me trying to dissect the things that seek to prove certain things about what she has published. I see that as a creating bad energy and feeding the spirit of contention. That is not in harmony with her as a person or her message nor is it worth my time. Knowing Julie the way I do, it is hard for me see blatant falsehoods about her go uncorrected. That is why I have posted what I have.
I'd like to know if Julie has explained why she posted on a message board her dreams and then five years later they show up in her book where she claims those things were related to her in an NDE? Have you asked her about that?

Have you asked her why her relating of events borrows heavily from scriptural accounts and the Bible Dictionary? If you haven't asked her, I'm wondering if anyone has asked her?

I'd like to see her answer these questions and explain herself. Does anyone know if she's addressed these inconsistencies?

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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by marc »

I think I had an NDE just reading some of the first page. :-o #:-s

I was given a copy of JR's book. Pretty easy reading, but it didn't change anything for me. I suppose if people prefer to read such books over the Book of Mormon, well, it's still better than watching TV or wasting time on Facebook.

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Aradel
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Aradel »

AI2.0 wrote:
TimeToPrepare wrote:As i mentioned, I am a close friend to Julie. I have known her for over 20 years, and we talk regularly about what is going on with her books, appearances, etc.

My purpose is to correct easily identifiable falsehoods in this thread. I don't wish to debate, argue, contend, or criticize others - only to correct falsehoods and speculation that I know are not true. As previously stated, Julie's experiences are genuine. Whether others choose to agree with them or not is up to each individual and a personal decision that I respect. So, you won't find me arguing about doctrine, authority etc. You won't find me trying to dissect the things that seek to prove certain things about what she has published. I see that as a creating bad energy and feeding the spirit of contention. That is not in harmony with her as a person or her message nor is it worth my time. Knowing Julie the way I do, it is hard for me see blatant falsehoods about her go uncorrected. That is why I have posted what I have.
I'd like to know if Julie has explained why she posted on a message board her dreams and then five years later they show up in her book where she claims those things were related to her in an NDE? Have you asked her about that?

?
Julie has repeatedly said that her dreams were for her to be reminded and retaught the details of her NDE, so that when the time came for her to share her NDE she would have clarity.

She also admitted that after she wrote her book she read a few NDE books.

I agree with NJB, a lot of Onsdag's essay was splitting of hairs.

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Daryl
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My review of Onsdag's review of JR

Post by Daryl »

I was eager to read this thread when I found it. I have some not so nice history with JR blasting me on AVOW. She openly called me to repentance for "apostate beliefs". She told me that what I had written did not jive with her own experiences and with current LDS doctrine of FTP. Then she included a charge to read her book, citing it as a source which could straighten me out on my misunderstandings. Suffice to say I was eager to read Onsdag's findings to salve my old wounds. LOL. I have tried several times to read JR's book, but have no motivation.

As I read Onsdag's long introduction, I was quickly becoming convinced that JR was exactly as he claimed. My fire for contempt was quickly fueled (I suddenly have a feeling the descriptive words in this sentence will be analyzed for plagiarism).

Then, I read the detailed evidences. Wow. Virtual back flips were performed to prove JR is false. Also something that I noticed was a very tight window of institutional standard that Onondaga uses to discredit JR's experience. The more I read the accusations, the more I was convinced that JR's claims are legit. Did she borrow ideas and scriptures? Seems to be quiet evident in some cases. Does that mean her story is not real? No. Just because there was some sloppy work does not mean it's not real. If you really think about it, at some level or another, we all do what Onsdag is accusing. When we are faced with describing some difficult experience, we all tend to use a frame of reference others can understand. I have no doubt JR opened her scriptures and tried to make sense out of what she had seen in vision.

I have had enough of my own visionary experiences to know that its just "messy enough" to need other sources to frame what I had experienced. Many times there is a "blank spot" in my visions where I am told I will learn what it means in time. And in fact some of those blank spots have been filled in by my own future experiences, but mostly through scripture study - certainly from other people like JR's experiences.

One thing for sure... There is far too much accusing going on. We need to practice some compassion when experiencing each other's differences. I have witnessed far too much judgement here on this thread and on AVOW. I hope we can reach deep inside ourselves to produce kind charity for those around us. We are all having a different experience. I write this more for myself than any one of you, since as I have mentioned I was initially ready to do the opposite. For which I now repent.

It appears to me that Onsdag has gone to great lengths in this analysis for a reason. God bless you for your efforts. I believe they are legit as well, with no external motivation. I believe there was a sincere desire to comprehend. One day you will will have your own similar experience and go through much of what JR has. Because of your efforts here, you will much better manage the challenges associated with putting yourself out there as JR has. Best wishes in your own experience.

Julie, thank you for sharing. I believe your experience is authentic. Please forgive my misgivings.

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

Aradel wrote:

Julie has repeatedly said that her dreams were for her to be reminded and retaught the details of her NDE, so that when the time came for her to share her NDE she would have clarity.
You did not read the posts she made, did you. Julie is talking about dreams she had BEFORE 2004, so they were not reminders or reteaching of her dreams. Sorry, this explanation does not answer my concerns.
She also admitted that after she wrote her book she read a few NDE books.

I agree with NJB, a lot of Onsdag's essay was splitting of hairs.
We're not talking about AFTER she wrote her book, we are talking about BEFORE she wrote her book.

She admitted that she read the AVOW site for about a year before finally sharing her dreams. She posted this in Sept. of 2009:
Having said that, hopefully if you read any of my posts, you will have a little more understanding of where I am coming from . Anything I post will be dreams prior to hearing about this site, Roger, Sarah, etc. I say this so that you know I did not have these dreams in response to reading someone else's dreams or experiences. I think that is important so that if someone is reading my posts, they will know they are my own experiences, not because I am dreaming it because someone else dreamed it, because SO MANY details are identical, specifically in terms of invasions from China, Russia, - concentration camps, plagues, famines, tsunamis, earthquakes, fires, "call outs" (even though I don't call what I saw in my dreams call outs), temples, mobs, adam-ondi-ahman, return of the 10 tribes, food storage and prep, droughts, biological warfare, nuclear attacks, war, etc.
From what she says, she was familiar with Sarah's NDE because she is comparing her dreams to Sarah's NDE. Also, she never mentioned experiencing an NDE, it was always about her dreams.

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

Daryl, I'm glad that you can be forgiving of Julie. I don't know your background, but from what you said in your post, it seems that with Onsdag's revelations, you've been able to empathize with Julie and that is good. But, it is because you yourself claim to have 'visions'. I put visions and dreams in a different category than Near Death Experiences.
If she learned the things she presents in her book through dreams but claimed they came through an NDE, then I think her readers, like me, have a legitimate reason for being upset that we were lied to.

I feel that Julie needs to address this and explain herself. The postings on AVOW make no mention of an NDE, and the dreams were gathered from many years. Maybe some of you don't care, but I do. I heard about her book from a friend who had bought it, I bought her book and read it, I told others about it. I think we, her readers, deserve an explanation.

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Daryl
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Daryl »

Was the First Vision merely a vision?
Or was it the big visitation? Physical contact and all?
Why didn't Joseph clarify?
Did he struggle with what he saw?
Did it take him years to put into written word what had had received.
Are we putting JR up to a standard we don't even put JS up to?
Why are there so many attempts to quash?
Articles of Faith
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Do your faith.

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AI2.0
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by AI2.0 »

Daryl wrote:Was the First Vision merely a vision?
Or was it the big visitation? Physical contact and all?
Why didn't Joseph clarify?
Did he struggle with what he saw?
Did it take him years to put into written word what had had received.
Are we putting JR up to a standard we don't even put JS up to?
Why are there so many attempts to quash?
Articles of Faith
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Do your faith.
We put Joseph up to the same standard as anyone who makes a claim. He said he experienced a vision. He did not say it was a near death experience or a dream--Joseph said he had a vision and if we found credible evidence that he lied, I think we would care.

Onsdag and Sarah have provided credible evidence--I think we should consider it carefully and I think these allegations deserve to be investigated.

'Do your faith'??? What the *** does that mean?

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Bananikka
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Bananikka »

Maybe she shared what she could as she could? I am not on AVOW and so I am really not sure of what has been said there. I'm also not interested in reading a ton of exhaustive material somebody has written against after she has been such a positive inspiration in my life (after reading her books, hearing her interviews, going to see her and praying about her message). But those are just my thoughts. :)

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mirkwood
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by mirkwood »

For some reason, we expect to hear, particularly in welfare sessions, some ominous great predictions of calamities to come. Instead, we hear quiet counsel on ordinary things which, if followed, will protect us in times of great calamity.

Boyd K. Packer
The Gospel—The Foundation for Our Career

Bee Prepared
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Bee Prepared »

Daryl wrote:Was the First Vision merely a vision?
Or was it the big visitation? Physical contact and all?
Why didn't Joseph clarify?
Did he struggle with what he saw?
Did it take him years to put into written word what had had received.
Are we putting JR up to a standard we don't even put JS up to?
Why are there so many attempts to quash?
Articles of Faith
13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Do your faith.

“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong, and the Personage who addressed me said that all their Creeds were an abomination in his sight, that those professors were all corrupt, that: they draw near to me with their lips but their hearts are far from me, They teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of Godliness but they deny the power thereof.’ He again forbade me to join with any of them and many other things did he say unto me which I cannot write at this time.”

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