My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

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Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

To whom it may concern,

An LDS author by the name of Julie Rowe has written a couple of books – the first titled “A Greater Tomorrow” and the second “The Time Is Now” – which are purported to be about, and center on, her experiences with having a near-death experience (NDE), visiting the spirit world, and the things she witnessed therein. She publicly self-proclaims these experiences as being completely true, and invites the reader to study and pray about her account to know of its truthfulness. I have done this. However, upon careful and prayerful study of her account as it is written in “A Greater Tomorrow” (I haven’t yet read her second book), and comparing it with revealed truths as contained in scripture and spoken by latter-day Prophets and Apostles, I have come to believe that it is false and that Julie has either been deceived, or, worse, is intentionally trying to deceive others in order to take advantage of them and/or lead them astray from correct gospel teachings. The following document represents the culmination of my findings thus far and I invite you to carefully and prayerfully study it in light of the restored gospel truths we have.

I realize this is a very sensitive matter, and don’t desire to hurt or offend anyone, but at the same time I am interested in seeking after truth and that inevitably may cause hurt feelings. This is a hard subject for me to even broach because of the sacred nature of the issue – namely, one person’s near death experience which, if true, involves many very personal and sacred experiences with the divine. However, if it is not true (and the evidence is strong that it isn’t) then that also brings up some very serious concerns that should be honestly examined and addressed appropriately.

I don’t intend this to be a personal attack on Julie Rowe (though inevitably to some it may seem like it is), but rather an honest examination of her claimed experiences. If her experiences are true then they should hold up under the scrutiny of light and truth. However, if they are not true and are not in harmony with the gospel (and the evidences I have gathered and present herein suggest this is the case) then that brings up a whole other set of issues which should be carefully examined. I am not seeking to undermine or tear anyone down or their beliefs. Rather, I am seeking after truth and, if necessary, to expose the hidden things of darkness so as to help my brothers and sisters not be led astray.

Briefly, there are a number of things about Julie’s account (as found primarily in “A Greater Tomorrow” – again, I haven’t yet read “The Time Is Now”) and behaviors that concern me, namely:
  • Julie unequivocally declares her books/account as true and authentic. This raises some serious concerns and questions because:
  • There are false doctrines and/or teachings that clearly contradict scriptures and other revealed truths as taught by latter-day Prophets and Apostles.
  • She reveals many new doctrines and/or teachings which have not been revealed before in scripture or by latter-day Prophets and Apostles.
  • There appear to be contradictions in her book wherein she contradicts her own self.
  • There is compelling evidence of plagiarism, both from scriptures and from other people’s NDE’s and/or dreams and visions.
  • There are inconsistencies, such as missing important information within the text which she herself refers to but doesn’t include. This may support the point above that she is plagiarizing material from other sources, but failing to include important and key information which the original source material covers.
  • There are indications of a strong element of deception on the part of Julie towards her audience, i.e. that she is knowingly and purposefully deceiving others.
  • There are inconsistencies in her online life, persona, and account as found on ldsavow.com which raise questions and concerns and show an element of deception there as well.
  • Her self-proclaimed “mission” and purpose in writing the book(s) involves “Energy Healing,” a practice which is questionable and may not be in harmony with gospel teachings or practices.
  • She is publicly teaching these things in her books, on radio, on the internet, and in-person at firesides, speaking engagements, and other public gatherings. Whether it is intentional or not Julie has garnered a large public following and her teachings, which may not be fully in harmony with gospel teachings and practices, have the possibility of influencing and leading many others astray or into questionable practices.
  • I have been personally threatened by an unknown person, either Julie Rowe, or someone closely affiliated with her and/or who has a vested interest in her “success,” to remain silent with the information I have or they would publicize criminal history information on me (which happened when I was a teenager and has since been resolved both legally and with the Church). This act by an unknown and cowardly person closely associated with Julie Rowe shows a willingness to engage in criminal and unethical behavior against others in an attempt to silence and humiliate others who may have honest and sincere questions or concerns about Julie Rowe and her account.
  • No one, including Julie Rowe or those who support her, have as yet been able to address my concerns outlined in this document or disprove them. Rather than addressing the issues openly and directly they would rather ignore it and/or attack my personal character. I am willing to have an open and honest discussion of the issues I present herein and if someone is able to disprove something I say as false then I am willing to publicly acknowledge it and correct the mistake.
As some backstory on myself and this matter with Julie Rowe I give you the following:

Many years ago, in 2009, I joined and started participating in an online community ldsavow.com (sometimes referred to as AVOW – an online forum and community for discussing last days, world events, preparedness, and gospel related topics). I actually knew of AVOW as early as 2006 through family members and had occasionally used their account/s to participate in discussions. Julie Rowe joined AVOW and created an account on January 25, 2008 under the username of “Julie Rowe.” I never knew or was aware of her under that username as she was mostly a “lurker” (someone who reads posts but doesn’t actively participate or post themselves). Over the next few years she posted a total of 40 posts, almost all of them dealing with dreams she has (or claims to have) had, and never once having mentioned anything about a NDE. The last time “Julie Rowe” logged onto AVOW (as of this writing) was March 10th, 2011.

The following year, on August 14th, 2012, Julie Rowe, for whatever reason, created a new account on ldsavow under the username of “fellowdreamer.” She was still a lurker for over a year and it wasn’t until late 2013-early 2014 when she began suddenly posting a lot and became an active participant on AVOW. It was about this time when I first became aware of Julie (though I only knew her as “fellowdreamer”) as she started (on her second or third post) talking about a NDE she has had back in 2004. Her posts were also frequently about energy healing (which often caused a lot of commotion and controversy on AVOW), call-outs, and tent cities. She then published her first book, A Greater Tomorrow, in May of 2014 and used AVOW as a medium to help get publicity for her book and into the mainstream.

Many people began talking about her book and it grew in popularity over the next several months. I never really felt a desire to read the book, though I was a little curious. It wasn’t until the Castle Dale Pageant when I first had a chance to read the book. As some family, friends, and I drove down together to see the pageant my friends brought along their copy of the book A Greater Tomorrow, and we each took turns reading it aloud. We only got about halfway through the book during this time, but even so there were things that were bothering me about her account that I just couldn’t fully express at that time. Later, on August 30-31, I was able to borrow the book from my friends and finished reading it. After finishing the book I again started reading it, but this time studying it more thoroughly and writing down my concerns. I had to return the book on the 31st so I didn’t get very far at that time.

Later, I think sometime in October, I was again able to borrow the book, this time for a greater length of time. I began again to study Julie’s book in greater detail, comparing it with scriptures and latter-day revelations from prophets and apostles. As the Lord guided my studies I slowly came to the realization that Julie’s account was false and was not in full harmony with the gospel. During this time a friend on avow who also shared some concerns about another popular NDE (Visions of Glory) began questioning these accounts. He was ultimately silenced for speaking out, but I contacted him and we began collaborating together and sharing doctrinal knowledge and information. He was working on analyzing Visions of Glory, and I was working on A Greater Tomorrow. Neither of us had read the book the other was working on, but we still shared findings with each other.

One day this friend contacted me and asked me to take a look at the user “Julie Rowe” on ldsavow and see if it might be the same person as “fellowdreamer” (Julie Rowe). I looked into it and was indeed surprised to find that they were one and the same person. I searched some more and began reading some of her old posts under the name of “Julie Rowe.” For me this begged the question of why create a new account instead of using her old one? One possible indication comes from a thread wherein she posted both as “Julie Rowe” and then years later under the new name of “fellowdreamer.” In this thread, under the username of “fellowdreamer,” she said this: ”I would rather keep my personal identity out of the picture, but too late for that.” It seems that for whatever reason (perhaps because she had only ever posted her experiences as “dreams” and not a NDE before?) she didn’t want people to know that she (“fellowdreamer”) was “Julie Rowe.”

As the evidences of deception on the part of Julie were starting to pile up I felt the need to bring it to light and share my findings with others so as to warn my brothers and sisters of this deception. I continued working on studying Julie’s book in light of the gospel and writing my findings. In an attempt to try resolving the matter privately and also to give Julie the opportunity to explain herself and come out with the truth herself, instead of me publicizing it, I emailed her asking her to be truthful with me and asking her if her account was true. At this time I also started a thread on AVOW asking others for insight and guidance on whether we should rebuke publicly or privately people who are publicly doing things that are wrong. It was during this discussion on the thread that another person by the username “ramsrn” contacted me privately about Julie Rowe wondering if it was her that I was concerned about. I replied back affirmatively and then they replied back that they had concerns as well. We began contacting each other via email with our findings. Interestingly enough “ramsrn,” never having read Julie’s book, has done much research on Julie’s online life and persona and has come to the same conclusion that Julie is deceiving people. I will refer you to this person’s findings as a separate document for more particulars of the inconsistencies and deceptions of Julie’s life on AVOW. Still, I have done some myself, though my research has been more focused on Julie’s book and how it isn’t in harmony with the gospel.

I also contacted a few other people privately (primarily Christopher Parrett, the owner and administrator of ldsavow.com, and Mills Crenshaw, a radio show host on k-tlk who has had Julie on as a guest a number of times) to express my concerns and share with them my findings in case Julie Rowe did not come clean. They both responded unfavorably, essentially warning me to be careful and not rock the boat (“steady the ark” is the term they both used). Shortly thereafter one of Christopher’s moderators, “shinnosuke,” contacted me to gather the evidences I had. I sent him the information I had and he promised to do what he could to make sure it received a fair hearing.

At this point Julie Rowe emailed me back and told me that her account was true and that if I wanted to learn the truth for myself to study and pray about it. I replied back, perhaps a bit too aggressively, that I have done this and that I have found her account to be false and that I hoped she would begin telling the truth before I did. Shortly thereafter “shinnosuke” informed me that he believed me and that he and several others had concerns about Julie Rowe, which they expressed to Christopher, but Christopher seemed to have no intentions of allowing anyone to discuss the matter. “shinnosuke” also informed me that he was no longer a moderator and would be leaving AVOW over this issue with Julie Rowe.

I then personally emailed Christopher and Mills both a copy of my findings up to that point. About this time is when I received the anonymous letter in the mail threatening me to not publish my “attack” against Julie Rowe or they would retaliate by publishing information all over the internet about my past. The only people (that I’m aware of) who knew of my intent to publish my findings was Julie Rowe, Mills Crenshaw, Christopher Parrett, Christopher’s moderators, and a few close friends who have been supportive of me. I do not know who it was that sent the threatening letter, though I believe it was someone who has a vested interest in Julie’s “success.” Nor do I do care if they do so – my past has been resolved and taken care of both legally and with the Church. It is the truth that I am after and I hope to help protect my brothers and sisters from being led astray. If these people are afraid of the truth then perhaps they should take a careful look at themselves and see where they stand in this “eternal contest between truth and error” as Elder Oaks has spoken about in this past October General Conference.

About a month has now passed since I first contacted Julie privately about my concerns. She has yet to respond back addressing my concerns and honestly I am not sure she will. Instead, Julie has continued publicly to teach her account as truthful at various public gatherings, on the radio, and online. I have also been busy, continuing to study her account and add to the body of evidences against it. The following then is the culmination of my efforts to come to know the truth thus far and to share my findings with others. I have at this time only gotten about halfway through analyzing A Greater Tomorrow, but the evidences are already overwhelming that Julie’s account is false. I have organized my analysis according to the following topics:
  1. False doctrines and/or teachings which clearly contradict scriptures and/or words of latter-day Prophets and Apostles.
  2. New teachings and/or revelations which we don’t have any revealed word on.
  3. Inconsistencies and/or contradictions wherein Julie appears to contradict herself, or says/does things that just don’t make sense in light of other information.
  4. Plagiarism. Obvious or suspected examples of plagiarism where she may have “borrowed” from other sources (scriptures and/or other people’s accounts of NDE’s, dreams, and visions) to write her story.
  5. Disjointed story elements or missing information that causes the story to not make sense as read. This may be indicative of Plagiarism or “borrowing” elements from other sources.
  6. Energy Healing.
  7. Evidences of purposeful and willful deception towards others.
  8. Julie’s online life, persona, and inconsistencies.
  9. Julie’s “dreams” posted on AVOW.
  10. Conclusion.
In my in-depth analysis of Julie’s book “A Greater Tomorrow” I have tried to be clear and succinct in my points, backing them up wherever I can with what the scriptures and Prophets teach. However, some of the points are merely my observations, opinions, and thoughts based on reason and feelings I have felt prompted with – these should not be considered authoritative in any degree; they are my opinions alone.

A note on copyrighted materials: I quote and cite the works of others (most notably Julie Rowe) extensively in this analysis and these references are either in the public domain or have been reproduced with the intention of being in compliance with the Fair Use provisions of U.S. Copyright Laws. According to Fair Use provisions:
Fair use is a limitation and exception to the exclusive right granted by copyright law to the author of a creative work. In United States copyright law, fair use is a doctrine that permits limited use of copyrighted material without acquiring permission from the rights holders. Examples of fair use include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, teaching, library archiving and scholarship. It provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test.

17 U.S.C. § 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. § 106 and 17 U.S.C. § 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).
In addition, according to the U.S. Copyright Office:
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”

(Source – http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)
In accordance with the Fair Use of some copyrighted materials, here then is my in-depth review of Julie’s account as found primarily in “A Greater Tomorrow” and on ldsavow.com.

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

A. False Doctrines/Teachings
“From the days of Hiram Page (D&C 28), at different periods there have been manifestations from delusive spirits to members of the Church. Sometimes these have come to men and women who because of transgression became easy prey to the Arch-Deceiver. At other times people who pride themselves on their strict observance of the rules and ordinances and ceremonies of the Church are led astray by false spirits, who exercise an influence so imitative of that which proceeds from at Divine source that even these persons, who think they are ‘the very elect,’ find it difficult to discern the essential difference. Satan himself has transformed himself to be apparently ‘an angel of light.’

When visions, dreams, tongues, prophecy, impressions or an extraordinary gift or inspiration convey something out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the Church or contrary to the decisions of its constituted authorities, Latter-day Saints may know that it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear. … [A]nything at discord with that which comes from God through the head of the Church is not to be received as authoritative or reliable. In secular as well as spiritual affairs, Saints may receive Divine guidance and revelation affecting themselves, but this does not convey authority to direct others, and is not to be accepted when contrary to Church covenants, doctrine or discipline, or to known facts, demonstrated truths, or good common sense.” (First Presidency Message, Aug. 1913)

“When John said, "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits," he did not mean that we should spend our time accepting or encouraging every wind of doctrine (Eph. 4:14), but that we should prove every doctrine by the revelations of the Lord; by those principles of eternal truth which have been revealed for our guidance. We have certain standards which have been accepted and by which we are to be governed.

If I should say something which is contrary to that which is written in the standard works of the Church, and accepted by the Authorities of the Church and approved by the Church generally, no one is under obligation to accept it. Everything that I say and everything that any other person says must square itself with that which the Lord has revealed, or it should be rejected.”
(Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1943, pp. 96-98, emphasis added)
Julie’s writings and words have “exercise[d] an influence so imitative of that which proceeds from a Divine source” that many good and honest people have come to accept it as from God. However, as the First Presidency warned in 1913 (which warning was later repeated by the Prophet Harold B. Lee in 1972), when something is “out of harmony with the accepted revelations of the Church or contrary to the decisions of its constituted authorities, Latter-day Saints may know that it is not of God, no matter how plausible it may appear.” Furthermore, that these things are “not to be accepted when contrary to Church covenants, doctrine or discipline, or to known facts, demonstrated truths, or good common sense.” The following points and teachings by Julie Rowe are not in harmony with scriptures, latter-day revelations from Prophets and Apostles, Church doctrines, “known facts, demonstrated truths, or good common sense” and therefore are not of God:


1. Spirits as children and elderly in spirit world. Julie describes “John” (her spirit guide) as an “older gentleman” and “distant ancestor” (p. 1). Later, before her actual NDE, she also describes being surrounded by spirits, “the most beautiful women, … most were elderly in their years” (p. 5). She again describes older people during her visit to the spirit world, such as an “older gentleman” at a desk (p. 23). Elsewhere Julie frequently describes seeing children in the spirit world – the “childcare” (p. 22), “children… playing with each other” (p.23), a "little boy” playing with his dog (p. 23), etc.

It has been revealed by prophets and apostles of God that all spirits – pre-mortal and post-mortal – are in adult form and in the prime of life. For example, Joseph F. Smith taught:
“You will remember we are told that the spirit of Jesus Christ visited one of the ancient prophets and revealed himself to him, and he declared his identity, that he was the same Son of God that was to come in the meridian of time. He said he would appear in the flesh just as he appeared to that prophet [see Ether 3:9, 16-17]. He was not an infant; he was a grown, developed spirit; possessing the form of man and the form of God, the same form as when he came and took upon him a tabernacle and developed it to the full stature of his spirit. … according to the word of the Prophet Joseph Smith, the body will develop, either in time or in eternity, to the full stature of the spirit, … The spirits of our children are immortal before they come to us, and their spirits, after bodily death, are like they were before they came. They are as they would have appeared if they had lived in the flesh, to grow to maturity, or to develop their physical bodies to the full stature of their spirits. If you see one of your children that had passed away it may appear to you in the form in which you would recognize it, the form of childhood; but if it came to you as a messenger bearing some important truth, it would perhaps come as the spirit of Bishop Edward Hunter’s son (who died when a little child) came to him, in the stature of full-grown manhood, and revealed himself to his father, and said: “I am your son.” Bishop Hunter did not understand it. He went to my father and said: “Hyrum, what does that mean? I buried my son when he was only a little boy, but he has come to me as a full-grown man – a noble, glorious, young man, and declared himself my son. What does it mean?” Father (Hyrum Smith, the Patriarch) told him that the spirit of Jesus Christ was full-grown before he was born into the world; and so our children were full-grown and possessed their full stature in the spirit, before they entered mortality, the same stature that they will possess after they have passed away from mortality, and as they will also appear after the resurrection, when they shall have completed their mission.” (see TPC: Joseph F. Smith, chapter 15, emphasis added).
The revelations by Julie of spirit beings as children and elderly directly conflicts with the revealed word of God through prophets that all spirits are adults and in their prime.

Note: We do have other reliable accounts of NDE’s or people seeing spirits in vision wherein they describe some spirits appearing as children, babies, or elderly. However, in these accounts the reason given (as President Smith taught above) is solely for purposes of identification – so that the person having the vision/NDE will know with certainty that so-and-so was in fact the very person they saw because that is how they (or others) remembered them in mortality. In Julie’s account there is absolutely no indication that these people are appearing old or as children to her so that she (or others) can recognize them as great-aunt Feye, great-great-grandfather John Doe, little sister Chelsey who died when she was 10, or baby Robert who died in infancy. Rather, these people seem to be young children or old for arbitrary or other unknown reasons.

2. Hair color. Julie describes spirits/personages with various hair colors, including John having “blonde” hair (p. 11), a little boy with “blond” hair (p. 23), a woman with “brunette” hair (p. 25), and even Heavenly Mother having “dark hair” (p. 97-98).

I don’t know if spirits or beings in/from the spirit world appear different or not, but I am under the impression and understanding that angels and other heavenly beings have white hair. In early Church history Joseph Smith once discerned “There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light. A sister in the state of New York had a vision, … and saw a glorious personage descending, arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; … How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation.

Furthermore, several scriptures and other accounts, describing seeing God, Jesus Christ, angels and other righteous spirit beings often talk of brilliant white hair (see Daniel 7:9; Revelation 1:14; 3 Nephi 19:25,30; D&C 110:3). One would think that Heavenly Mother, like the Father and Son, would also have brilliant white hair. Another example comes from the dedication of the Kirtland temple – “Heber C. Kimball relates that during the ceremonies of the dedication, an angel appeared and sat near Joseph Smith, Sr., and Frederick G. Williams, so that they had a fair view of his person. He was tall, and had black eyes and white hair…” (Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Section 109, Prayer of Dedication for the Kirtland Temple). This suggests, to me at least, that true and righteous spirit beings, angels, etc., (at least that appear to us in mortality – I don’t know if we discern things differently while in the spirit world or in dreams), have white hair.

3. Death in the spirit world? As far as I know there is no death in the spirit world… However, while in the spirit world, Julie and John “sat down on a large log” (p. 13). Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t logs dead trees?

4. “Time in the Spirit World is different than time here on the earth” (p. 13).

According to latter-day revelation the spirit world is right here on this earth – not somewhere else. And, as the scriptures teach, time is a product of what planet we are on and where we are in space in relation to God and Kolob (see D&C 130:4-5 and Abraham 3:4-10). Therefore time on this earth (whether it be the physical earth we dwell on, or the spirit world which is still this earth) is set and time flows the same for them as it does for us. More evidence that time is the same there as it is here comes from the words of the prophets wherein they say that they (the spirits in prison) have waited hundreds and sometimes thousands of years for their work to be done. Brigham Young taught, for example, the importance of us doing temple work saying: “What do you suppose the fathers would say if they could speak from the dead? Would they not say, ‘We have lain here for thousands of years, here in this prison house, waiting for this dispensation to come?’“ (TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 42).

5. “There were many of the Lord’s creations found in the Spirit World that were not on the earth, including trees, shrubbery, flowers, animals and other of God’s beautiful creations” (p. 13).

Compare this with the scriptures that teach that God created all things spiritually before they were physically on the earth. D&C 77:2 for example teaches:

Q. What are we to understand by the four beasts, spoken of in the same verse?
A. They are figurative expressions, used by the Revelator, John, in describing heaven, the paradise of God, the happiness of man, and of beasts, and of creeping things, and of the fowls of the air; that which is spiritual being in the likeness of that which is temporal; and that which is temporal in the likeness of that which is spiritual; the spirit of man in the likeness of his person, as also the spirit of the beast, and every other creature which God has created.

Of course the account of the creation as found in Moses chapters 2 and 3 are also of interest and validate this further (see Moses 2:11-12,20-21,24-27; and Moses 3:1,4-5,7,9). It seems from these scriptures that all of God’s creations (specifically meant for this earth) that are in the spirit world are the same as is found on the earth naturally and physically. It would also appear that all spirits look (and presumably function) just like their mortal counterparts. This includes grass, plants, trees, birds, fishes, beasts, etc., etc. (see also TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 38).

This means that there cannot be things in the spirit world that do not pertain to our world because they are one and the same, spiritually and physically. Granted, it may be that perhaps Julie saw things that once existed, or may yet exist, but are not currently found on the earth… but this is not likely what she meant/intended by this phrase but rather that she was seeing otherworldly creations not from the earth. Another possible explanation (that I can conceive) is that Julie is not in the spirit world but in heaven or some other of God’s creations wherein she would be able to see things that are not from our world – but this would contradict her former statements (and that of John) that she is in the “spirit world” (see point #47).

6. On page 22 Julie describes some of the work that “everyone there” (in the spirit world) was assigned and engaged in doing, among which was “family history work, temple work,” and “childcare.”

This is a big doctrinal red flag.

Firstly, we have prophetic revelation that all spirits, pre-mortal and post-mortal, are adults and that there are no spirits in child form (see point #1) – so what “childcare” would there be?

Another big one is “temple work.” We also have plenty of prophetic revelations that temple work can only be done while in mortality. One such example comes from Brigham Young who taught “in the spirit world, they cannot officiate in the ordinances of the house of God. They… are beyond the possibility of personally officiating for the remission of their sins and for their exaltation, consequently they are under the necessity of trusting in their friends, their children and their children’s children to officiate for them, that they may be brought up into the celestial kingdom of God” (DBY, 406; TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 38). Thus the great importance for us to do the work for those who have passed on without it. If there are temples and temple work done in the spirit world than it is something that hasn’t been revealed yet (that I’m aware of). This doctrine that Julie teaches is either false, or is new revelation (which in itself is a concern) that we don’t understand what is entailed.

I also sorta question what exactly the “family history work” entails, because this is another thing that is closely associated with our mortal existence and temple work. I imagine that they are already keenly aware of who their families are and how everyone is related… I just don’t see much family history work that they could be doing on the other side, at least not in the same sense and understanding I have of it…

So, what type of work do the righteous perform in the spirit world? Brigham Young asks and also answers this question saying “What are they doing there? They are preaching, preaching all the time, and preparing the way for us to hasten our work in building temples here and elsewhere” (DBY, 378; TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 38). Those last words are again an indicator that they can’t do temple work themselves in the spirit world else why are they trying to help us by preparing the way for us to build temples? For further doctrinal teachings on these things see also TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 42; TPC: Wilford Woodruff, chapter 18; and TPC: Joseph F. Smith, chapter 46.

7. Food preparation and eating, part 1. On page 23 Julie describes some spirits preparing a variety of vegetarian foods that are to be eaten. There is no mention of any meats. Later, on the next page, Julie, asking John about the dinosaurs, is shown only plant-eating dinosaurs living there in paradise. She asks John specifically about T-Rexes and is informed that they, along with all other meat eating dinosaurs, are in “another place” which “had been prepared and reserved for them” (p. 24). Another passage of note is when the animals board the ark, Julie describes meat eaters coming last and having to be “subdue[d]” (see point #39).

Implied and insinuated in these passages is that vegetarianism is of a higher order and eating meat is of a lesser order and that any who eat meat will have “another place” “prepared and reserved for them” (spirit prison perhaps? or maybe outer darkness?). Surely Jesus Christ, our exemplar, and the creator of all things, both in heaven and on earth – he who ate (and gave others to eat) meat while in his mortal ministry (Mark 6:37-44) and again as a resurrected being (Luke 24:36-43) – surely he (and those he fed) will not be going to “another place” which is “prepared and reserved for them” who eat meat… Julie never does (in this book) come out directly against eating meat, but it is definitely insinuated. It seems to me that Julie knows what she is doing and is very subtly trying to introduce and push this belief without ever coming out directly and teaching it. Her words are very carefully crafted to introduce the thought and plant the seed, but not teach it openly. (compare with D&C 49:18-21 and 1 Timothy 4:1-5)

8. Food preparation and eating, part 2. Julie describes seeing a group of women preparing a variety of food (p. 23), and she later joins and helps them (p. 24-25).

My question is, is there food in the spirit world? Elder Hartman Rector Jr. seems to suggest otherwise when he taught:
“Amulek plainly states that the ‘same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in the eternal world.’ So, we do not change just because we die. If we are addicted to drugs, bad habits, or evil desires here upon the earth, we shall be addicted to those same things in the spirit world; … Do you suppose he [a man who died while addicted to cigarettes] still wants a cigarette? On the basis of Amulek’s statement, he does. But there is just one catch – there are no cigarettes in the spirit world.” (Elder Hartman Rector, Jr., Oct. 1970 GC).
If any addictions we have (such as drugs, smoking, coffee, etc.) stay with us when we leave this world, but we will be unable to satisfy them because we lack a physical body – wouldn’t this also apply to food and food addictions? If, as Elder Hartman Rector Jr. says, there are no cigarettes in the spirit world, wouldn’t the same apply to food? Or, asked another way, if the ability to eat food is very real in the spirit world (as Julie says) then why not smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol, snorting or shooting up on drugs, etc.?

9. Food preparation and eating, part 3. Again in the same citation as above Julie sees the “women preparing a variety of foods” including “a variety of bread, some fruit, vegetables, crackers and a beverage” (p. 23).

As in point #8 I again question – is there food in the spirit world? This time I ask for a different reason, namely, isn’t the spirit world just a state of being – there is no death neither is there any reproduction of life going on? Because all of God’s creations had already been created and then placed there – there is no increase and neither is there a decrease. Spirits can’t (that I’m aware of) procreate and neither can they be killed. Yet almost all of the foods she mentions requires reproduction and/or death of plant life. Crackers and bread require the death (and certainly the reproduction) of the grains in order to make, and fresh fruits and vegetables also require reproduction of life (and likely death) in order to produce and/or consume.

10. Many spirits in the spirit world are described as wearing “regular street clothing” or other varied attire closely associated with mortal life (p. 23, 28, etc.).

In all of the credible visions and NDE’s I have read dealing with the spirit world or visitors from the other side it is almost always indicated that righteous spirits wear white, and usually robes or temple clothing. Only very occasionally is it mentioned of someone wearing regular clothes that are associated with earth life, and the reason suggested is almost certainly for purposes of recognition (similar to point #1). Can/Do spirits wear other clothes, such as street clothes, that are associated with mortality? What would be the purpose of wearing street clothes, military uniforms, etc., while in the spirit world? I suppose it’s possible… though I find it highly unlikely that any righteous spirits would do so unless they had a purpose. Compare with all the scriptures that indicate righteous saints and angels being clothed upon with white garments (Matt. 28:3; John 20:12; Acts 1:10; Rev. 3:4-5,18; 4:4; 7:9,13-14; 19:8,14; D&C 20:6; 1 Nephi 8:5; 12:10-11; 14:19; etc.).

11. The Lord has “a special place for those of His children who had left mortality while in their infancy or childhood” (p. 23).

Implied in this statement is that this “special place” is an actual location (whether in the spirit world or apart from it, I don’t know) where these “children” and “infants” are taken and reside after leaving mortality. The context, taken from the paragraphs proceeding and following this statement, also validates this interpretation because John and Julie are talking about animals and dinosaurs and how each of them also have their own special places where they live and dwell in the spirit world.

There are at least three major problems I see with this statement by Julie: 1) The revelations mentioned earlier that all spirits are in adult form– there are no children or infants in the spirit world (see point #1). This statement is therefore doctrinally false. 2) What is it that makes spirits who died in childhood and infancy so special that they have their own “special place” apart from any other righteous spirits who lived to adulthood? Contrary to this doctrine, Brigham Young taught that all spirits, whether good or bad, intermingle freely amongst each other just as they do now in mortality (see TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 38), therefore Julie’s statement is doctrinally false on this count too. And finally, 3) Julie contradicts herself because just a few paragraphs earlier she herself mentioned seeing little children playing and interacting with their families and others (including herself) – therefore they hadn’t been taken to some “special place” apart from others.

12. Several buildings are made of materials “not found on the earth” (p. 27).

Again, this is another contradiction of scriptures that teach that everything physical on this earth has its spiritual counterpart, and vice versa (see point #5). That which is physical was first made spiritually. And there are no angels which minister to this earth except those which belong to this earth (D&C 130:5) – and, by extension, it is reasonable to believe that there is nothing on this earth (spiritual or physical) except that which belongs to it. Why then would the spirit world (which is the spiritual manifestation of this earth) have items in it which are otherworldly?

13. “Christopher Columbus,” part 1. “He [Christopher Columbus] was divinely inspired to find the Americas and deliver the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the natives he found there” (p. 30). Again Julie reiterates that Columbus’ “main purpose however, was to spread Christianity” (p. 30).

Columbus did not have and therefore could not deliver the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ to anyone, let alone the natives. His mission was to discover the Promised Land and prepare the way for the Gentiles to come here to the Promised Land (see 1 Nephi 13:12), not to bring the gospel to anyone. If Julie’s statement that his “main purpose however, was to spread Christianity” then why does Nephi never mention it in his prophecy? No, for this would be Joseph Smith’s mission several hundred years later – to restore the gospel light again to the earth and to “them that sit in darkness” (D&C 45:28).

It could be argued though that Christianity, even though it wasn’t restored in its fullness at that time, did have some good and therefore Columbus did do some good in trying to help spread Christianity. I’d have to do more research on whether Columbus ever intended to or did spread Christianity to the natives. However, if that was indeed part of his life’s mission it likely would not have been his “main purpose.” Though it is undeniable that he was divinely led to cross the ocean – Columbus, scriptures, and latter-day prophets all testifying that he was led by the hand of God – his interactions with the natives was not very Christ-like. As I understand it his “deliver[ing] the light of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the natives” included (if not directly then at least with tacit approval by encouraging his followers to engage in) murder, torture, dishonesty, theft, slavery and rape (this information comes from journals of Columbus and those who were near to him) – hardly Christian related activities. I believe Christopher Columbus was a good man, and he tried to live up to the best light and knowledge that he had at the time - but he was also living in a time of great darkness and he did make some serious mistakes.

14. “Christopher Columbus,” part 2. “Part of Columbus’ earthly mission was to help fulfill the purposes outlined in John 10:16, namely to bring about God’s purposes of gathering His children under ‘one fold and one Shepherd’ (Jesus Christ), in finding the ‘new heaven and the new earth’ described in the Bible” (p. 30).

Firstly, Columbus did nothing to gather anyone into one fold and one shepherd as the gospel had not been restored at that time. If any gathering was done by him it was into a different fold and to a different shepherd than God’s Church.

Secondly, Julie seems to be grossly misinterpreting the scriptures in relation to a new heaven and new earth and misapplying it to Columbus’ discovery of America. Either that, or Julie, a student of history (p. x, 165), may have learned that Columbus may have believed that his discovery of America was a fulfillment of the scriptures of a “new heaven” and “new earth” and therefore inserted it into her own account in an attempt to validate or authenticate it. In essence this would simply be a colloquialism from Columbus that Julie “borrowed” for her story.

The “new heaven” and “new earth” is about the very real and literal change this earth and the heavens are to go through during the course of its life – namely during (or just prior to) the Millennium (D&C 29:23-24; Articles of Faith #10) – and not the discovery of some new land or heavens. Elder Russell M. Nelson taught “eventually, ‘the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.’ At the Second Coming of the Lord, the earth will be changed again. It will be returned to its paradisiacal state and be made new. There will be a new heaven and a new earth” (Russell M. Nelson, General Conference, April 2000). These things are yet future and did not take place when Columbus discovered the Americas.

15. Julie suggests that some time passed after Cain murdered Abel before Cain and his followers separated themselves from Adam’s family (see p. 32-33). The scriptures on the other hand suggest that the separation was immediate, from that very day, and that from thenceforth he would become a fugitive and vagabond on the earth (see Moses 5:36-41).

16. New revelations about Noah’s ark, its construction and engineering specs. Julie says that they “even had an area to plant seeds and grow food” (p. 35).

While growing food while on the ark may have been a possibility, the scriptures suggest they did otherwise saying “And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them” (Gen. 6:21). This suggests that they had to bring all the food they would need and wouldn’t be able to grow anything themselves during this time.

17. Angels closed and sealed the doors to the Ark after Noah and his family had entered in and then these same angels “waterproofed the Ark.” “Once inside, Noah and his family were no longer able to open the doors” (p. 35).

While it does seem that the Lord may have sealed them in, “And the Lord shut him in” (Gen. 7:16), we are not given to know if angels did the work or how it was done. Furthermore, it is almost certain that Noah did the waterproofing himself, and not angels as Julie describes. The Lord commanded Noah to “pitch it within and without with pitch” (Gen. 6:14). This pitching of the Ark is waterproofing it and was done by Noah himself – not, insofar as we know, by angels. Also, in the account found in Ether 6:6-7 we read that the Jaredites barges were waterproof because they were built and fitted together very tightly, just as Noah’s Ark was. This waterproofing, both in construction method and by pitching it within and without, was done by Noah. When God commands us to do something He often requires us to do much of the work ourselves. I believe that this is the case here with Noah.

18. Julie says that “In most cases, the Lord prompted the animals to go to the Ark” and that Noah didn’t go out to collect them (p. 35).

A close study of the scriptures leaves room for doubt that this is entirely true. On the one hand it may be true as Julie indicated because the Lord did say “two of every sort shall come unto thee” (Gen.6:20). On the other hand though, there are indications that Noah had to actually go out and gather them himself, namely verses 19 and 22 “two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark,… Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he” and again we read similar words in Gen. 7:2-3,5 where Noah is commanded to take seven of every clean beast, which again he does as commanded. I can see it being interpreted either way as the scriptures don’t definitively say one way or the other how it happened. Still, I am more inclined to believe that Noah may have had to go and do most (if not all) of the work himself as that is generally how God works. Faith proceeds the miracle.

19. Noah and family, after the events of the flood, “lived in the Ark for quite a while” and used the Ark as a “’home base’ since there weren’t trees to build homes” (p. 37).

And yet a dove brought a leaf from an olive tree to show that the waters had receded off the earth (Gen. 8:11), evidence that there were in fact some trees growing. Furthermore, the scriptures seem to indicate that immediately after the earth had dried Noah and family were commanded to leave the ark and go forth upon the earth to live and multiply (see Gen. 8:14-19). And finally, the scriptures make no indication that they lived in homes at this time, but rather that they dwelt in tents (Gen. 9:21).

20. Tower of Babel. Julie says that it is “several hundred feet high” and “fairly square” (p. 37). In a radio interview with Mills Crenshaw she clarifies that it was probably about 500 feet high, and it sorta reminded her of the Eiffel Tower in France in that it was squarish and tapered upwards in like manner. In this radio interview she added further details describing the tower as being made of wood.

These details apparently conflict with prophetic and scriptural details that have been given. Specifically, the size and materials used in the building of the tower. According to the Bible it is almost certain the tower is made of brick and mortar (Gen. 11:3-4), and not wood. In regards to the size of it, in the Book of Mormon the tower of Babel is always referred to as a “great tower” (Ether 1:3,33). The Bible says that the purpose of this great tower was to “reach unto heaven” (Gen. 11:4). Here we also read that the builders very nearly accomplished their goal until God intervened (Gen 11:6). The size and scope of this great tower is never fully disclosed in the Bible or Book of Mormon account. However, through revelation from latter-day prophets and apostles we get a clearer idea of the immense size and intended purpose of this “great tower.” From Apostle Orson Pratt we read:
“The people being of one language, gathered together to build a tower to reach, as they supposed, the crystalized heavens. They thought that the City of Enoch was caught up a little ways from the earth, and that the city was within the first sphere above the earth; and that if they could get a tower high enough, they might get to heaven, where the City of Enoch and the inhabitants thereof were located. They went to work and built a tower. … but the Lord saw that … nothing would be restrained from them which they imagined to do” (JOD 16:47).
It’s interesting that Julie never notes that the City of Enoch (which she talked about just a few pages earlier) is an integral and inseparable part of why these people built the tower. They weren’t trying to get to “heaven” where God dwelt, nor is it mentioned anywhere about using the tower as a preaching platform, but rather, the people were trying to get to where Zion and the City of Enoch was. Apparently at this time it was high above the earth and still visible to the inhabitants of earth. Imagine then just how immense this tower, which was very nearly completed, must have been to reach into the “first sphere above the earth.” Assuming that the "first sphere" is the troposphere then it could have reached nearly 11 miles high! Wikipedia cites several estimates ranging from 1-8 miles high. Whatever the actual height must have been, Julie’s 500 foot estimate is a far cry from these estimates.

As for the shape… well, there is no revealed word (that I’m aware of) on this matter, therefore Julie’s revelation on this point must be considered new revelation. As a side note, paintings and other depictions most often portray a round tower. Of course an artist’s interpretation doesn’t validate or disprove anything.

21. Julie says that “Isaac was actually around 30 years old at this time [when Abraham attempted to offer him up as a sacrifice], rather than being a timid young boy as is often depicted in paintings or stories. Abraham was actually quite old. The contrast between the frail older man and a younger man in his prime made it obvious that Isaac had gone willingly…” (p. 38-39).

This does not seem to match up with the evidences found in the scriptures. First consider that Isaac is frequently referred to as a “lad” (Gen. 22:5,12). Lad means a young boy or young man who is still in their youth who hasn’t fully matured. Another scripture worth considering is in the previous chapter, Genesis 21:7-8,12-20 wherein “lad” and “child” are used interchangeably to denote a very young child. Contrast this with the usage of “young men” used in the account of Abraham and Isaac to refer to Abraham’s servants (Gen. 22:3,5,19). If Isaac was in fact a “man in his prime” why not refer to him as a man or even young man, as was the case with the servants, instead of using the term “lad?”

More evidence comes from when Isaac asks his father where the “lamb” was for the sacrifice – his father replies “God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offereing” (Gen. 22:7). A “lamb” is a baby or young sheep that hasn’t matured yet. At this time Abraham is fully aware that Isaac is intended to be the sacrificial lamb, and had probably informed Isaac earlier that they were going to be sacrificing a lamb (thus Isaac’s question). It isn’t until later, after Abraham passes the test, where we are told of a “ram” (fully grown male sheep, symbolic of the future Messiah’s sacrifice) who is offered up in Isaac’s place. This again, I believe, is an allusion to Isaac’s youth.

What’s more, latter-day Prophets and Apostles have also taught that Isaac was just a child in his youth. John Taylor, for example, has said “And the boy was heard to say,… [quotes Gen. 22:7]” and then continuing on, Abraham “lifting the knife to slay the promised child” (JOD 22:312). George Q. Cannon also recounted, “some years after the birth of this son,… [God] required him to offer up this boy…” (JOD 13:197). And Elder Dallin H. Oaks, in 1992, gave a talk reflecting on his (Elder Oaks’) own boyhood and youth and how he was very inquisitive, and likened it to the story of Isaac saying “like most young men, Isaac was curious,” he then cited Isaac’s question to his father about where the sacrificial lamb was, and continued “… and the Lord saved young Isaac.” Certainly these testimonies, given by prophets and scriptures, indicate that Isaac truly was a young man or boy still in his youth when this event took place, not 30 and “in his prime” as Julie declares.

22. Julie says “an angel appeared and intervened, sparing Isaac’s life,” and later, “I saw that the angel stayed with them and explained further what it all meant” (p. 39).

In Genesis 22:11,15 we read that “the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven” and “the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time.” There is no indication in these verses that this is a personal visit by an angel, but rather that the voice of the angel is heard. What’s more, John Taylor identifies the voice of this “angel” as that of the Lord himself saying, “when the voice of the Lord is heard, saying, Hold, Abraham, put not thine hand upon the lad” (JOD 22:312). From the words of the covenant and promises made to Abraham at this time it does indeed seem like it is the Lord speaking to Abraham directly, and not through a second party. ”By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing… That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed” (Gen 22:16-17).

23. Joseph’s garment. Julie says “She tore his garment from his body as he fled,… I watched as Potiphar’s wife then took her own garments and tore them, making it look as if Joseph had ripped them” (p. 41).

Julie makes no mention of the specific item of clothing that was torn from Joseph’s “body as he fled,” but, her words that Potiphar’s wife “tore his garment from his body as he fled “and then later “took her own garments and tore them” suggests that it was personal clothing that is worn directly against or on the body, like a shirt or blouse, which would have to be torn or ripped in order to be removed from the body. N. Eldon Tanner in 1979 identified the garment as a cloak. A cloak is an outer garment and could easily be removed without tearing it, which the scriptures suggest happened when Potiphar’s wife “caught him by his garment” and Joseph “left his garment in her hand, and fled” (Gen. 39:12).

24. Passover, part 1. “The instructions – including marking the door with the lamb’s blood – were unconventional” (p. 43).

It wasn’t the door itself that was marked, as Julie indicates, but rather it was the lintel and door posts (i.e. the door frame – see Ex. 12:7, 22-23).

25. Passover, part 2. “Many lacked the faith and obedience required to follow the prophet. … As a result of this disobedience, there were some Israelites who perished, despite the protection the Lord had offered them” (p. 43).

This doesn’t seem true according to the scriptures – see Exodus 11:4-7, verse 7 in particular is very telling: “But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that the Lord doth put a difference between the Egyptians and Israel.” In these verses we are told that the Lord is going to destroy all of the firstborn in Egypt – human and animal alike – but that of the Israelites not a single one – again human and animal alike – will be lost, and that this will be a testimony to them that the Lord is God and will miraculously preserve his people. Other scriptures that seem to back this up are “the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall [observe the Passover]” (Exodus 12:6), and “thus did all the children of Israel; as the Lord commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they” (Exodus 12:50 –see also verses 28 and 35). These last verses in particular show that the Israelites were in fact obedient to the Prophet of God, contrary to what Julie said.

26. Final hours. “I witnessed the events in the Garden of Gethsemane. There were concourses of angels in the Garden, bearing Him up, as Christ took upon Him the sins of the world and suffered for all of mankind” (p. 59).

Compare with Luke 22:43 “And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.” Prophets and Apostles have frequently cited this scripture as well, indicating only one angel. Bruce R. McConkie suggested this angel was Michael the Archangel. Elder Neal A. Maxwell has said that even here, “of necessity, the angel who stood by Christ in Gethsemane to strengthen Him left Him” so that “In the final atoning process, ‘none were with [Him]’ (D&C 133:50)” (Neal A. Maxwell, GC, Oct. 2001). Again Julie’s story contradicts what the scriptures and latter-day prophets teach.

27. First Vision, part 1. “I heard them tell Joseph that although many of the churches taught good things, none of them contained the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I heard the Lord tell him that he should join none of the churches” (p. 77).

Compare with Joseph’s account: “I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ‘they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof’” (JS-H 1:19).

Julie’s words sound rather positive towards all the other churches… quite the contrast to the words of Jesus Christ who was rather harsh and condemning of them. If I were to speculate I would almost think that Julie was trying to be political and alter Joseph’s account in order to sound more favorable towards other faiths…

28. First Vision, part 2. Julie says that during the First Vision a great many things were taught by God and Jesus Christ to Joseph, including “the Plan of Salvation, … the Atonement,” baptism and priesthood authority, “personal revelation, … the organization of the church, … prophets and apostles,” “apostasy,” “previous dispensations,” the restoration of the gospel, Joseph’s role in this work, God’s love for him and all people, the “adversary” and opposition he would face, and much more (p. 77-78).

While this may be possible it is highly unlikely. Our records only inform us of three things conveyed to him at this time: “Joseph was profoundly affected by the heavenly vision. In addition to being given the answer to his question about which church was right, he was told that his sins were forgiven and that ‘the fullness of the Gospel should at some future time be made known unto [him]’” (Institute Student Manual, “Church History In The Fulness Of Times,” Chapter 3: The First Vision). Julie’s words indicate a flood gate of knowledge and information poured out upon Joseph at this time, but realistically (and based upon the evidences) the knowledge and revelations came to Joseph slowly over time. We learn line upon line, precept upon precept, and receive grace for grace as we continue to work and learn over time.

Take for example baptism “by immersion for the remission of sins, by one having proper authority” – it wasn’t until 1829 when Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery were translating the Book of Mormon that “the resurrected Savior’s visit to the inhabitants of the Western Hemisphere and his teachings about baptism were unfolded during the translation. At this point their souls were driven to mighty prayer to learn how they could obtain the blessing of baptism” (“Church History In The Fulness Of Times,” Chapter 5). It was then that an angel (John the Baptist) appeared to them and taught them and gave them the priesthood keys necessary for this work. This indicates that Joseph did not learn about baptism by immersion by the proper priesthood authority until many years after the First Vision. Likewise many of the other things Julie claims were taught at that time were not taught until later.

29. Visits with Moroni, part 1. Following Moroni’s visits, the next day Joseph was so exhausted that he could not work and his father sent him home. Upon crossing a fence Joseph fell to the ground and Moroni then appeared and visited with him a fourth time. After this final visit Julie says “I watched Joseph regain his strength and return home, going directly to his bed and falling asleep, his body so desperately needing rest. I later saw Joseph walk a great distance to the Hill Cumorah to the exact location he had been shown” (p. 82).

That is not how events played out. Joseph Smith, according to his own words, recounts of this last experience: “[Moroni] then again related unto me all that he had related to me the previous night, and commanded me to go to my father and tell him of the vision and commandments which I had received. I obeyed; I returned to my father in the field, and rehearsed the whole matter to him. He replied that it was of God, and told me to go and do as commanded by the messenger. I left the field, and went to the place where the messenger had told me the plates were deposited” (JS-H 1:49-50). Julie’s words completely contradict what truly happened.

30. Visits with Moroni, part 2. After Joseph arrived at the location where the plates are buried Julie says “I watched as Joseph followed the instructions he had been given, and as he rolled away the large stone that was covering the place the records had been stored” (p. 82).

Again this does not match with Joseph’s account of what happened. Says he, “This stone was thick and rounding in the middle on the upper side, and thinner towards the edges, so that the middle part of it was visible above the ground, but the edge all around was covered with earth. Having removed the earth, I obtained a lever, which I got fixed under the edge of the stone, and with a little exertion raised it up. I looked in, and there indeed did I behold the plates…” (JS-H 1:51-52)

As I read Joseph’s account it seems like the large stone is relatively flat, with a rounded top, much like an upside down plate would appear thicker in the middle and thinner at the edges. There is no mention of rolling the stone by Joesph, which would be more likely to occur if the stone was round instead of flat. Rather, he describes prying it upwards, much like a lid, which indicates the stone would have been relatively flat – something that would be very difficult to “roll away.”

31. Jacob Haun. She sees the Haun’s Mill event and describes Jacob Haun as not being a member of the Church.

I always thought he was. Odd. Looking it up there seems to be conflicting reports and/or research on whether he was or not. Some accounts say that he never was a member, while others say that he was converted before moving down to the area of Haun’s Mill. My question is, why would he seek counsel from the prophet about whether to have the saints move or not (as I understand happened) if he wasn’t a member? And furthermore, why would the saints entrust him to seek counsel from the prophet for them, if he wasn’t a member, instead of finding out themselves? Joseph Smith said, “at Haun’s Mill the brethren went contrary to my counsel; if they had not, their lives would have been spared” (History of the Church, 5:137). Did Joseph counsel anyone else directly, or was it just Jacob Haun? As to whether he was a member of the church, or not, I don’t know. This point seems questionable.

32. “Off to the side of the camp there was a huge white tent. It looked similar to the pictures of the tabernacle the Jews had while wandering in the wilderness with Moses, although there was no altar in the courtyard area” (p. 117).

It was actually all of the house of Israel, and not just the Jews.

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

B. New Teachings/Revelations
"If you have had a vision or manifestation, it is your duty to keep it to yourself; it is not for the Church, and I advise you not to repeat it. … Every man in the Church has the right to receive revelation for his own guidance, but not for the guidance of the Church. … In that revelation, which was given in February, 1831, the Lord said this:

O hearken, ye elders of my church, and give ear to the words which I shall speak unto you.

For behold, verily, verily, I say unto you, that ye have received a commandment for a law unto my church, through him whom I have appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations from my hand.

And this ye shall know assuredly—that there is none other appointed unto you to receive commandments and revelations until he be taken, if he abide in me.

But verily, verily, I say unto you, that none else shall be appointed unto this gift except it be through him; for if it be taken from him he shall not have power except to appoint another in his stead.

And this shall be a law unto you, that ye receive not the teachings of any that shall come before you as revelations or commandments;

And this I give unto you that you may not be deceived, that you may know they are not of me.

For verily I say unto you, that he that is ordained of me shall come in at the gate and be ordained as I have told you before, to teach those revelations which you have received and shall receive through him whom I have appointed
(D&C 43:1-7).

This ought to be clear enough for us all. If the Lord has a revelation or a commandment to give to His people, it is going to come from the head, and when someone else comes among the people professing to have revelations and to give commandments we can test that matter very readily. We do not have to go into any details or make an extended examination of the claims, there is no need of any investigation whatever, because the Lord has given us the key as a law to the Church by which we are to be governed." (Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, Conference Report, October 1943, pp. 96-98)
The following points represent new teachings and/or revelations from Julie with which there hasn’t been any revealed (to my knowledge) word of the Lord through scripture or from Prophets and Apostles. These teachings, if true, were meant only for Julie and should have been kept sacred and to herself as we have been taught. Since she is sharing these new revelations/teachings publicly then we can know with a surety that they are not of God (at least for anyone other than Julie) and we are under commandment not to believe or receive them:

33. Heavenly Mother (p. 97-98). This subject is so sacred that rare indeed are the times it is ever mentioned or discussed. Rarer still (in fact never, as far as I’m aware) are the times someone claimed to have seen her, let alone described her appearance to others. Yet, here Julie almost nonchalantly mentions seeing her and then goes on to describe her and what she looks like. This is new teachings that have not been revealed before (that I’m aware of). Furthermore, in searching for any revealed word on our Mother in Heaven I came across a talk by Gordon B. Hinckley wherein, quoting himself, he states:
”’I have looked in vain for any instance where any President of the Church, from Joseph Smith to Ezra Taft Benson, has offered a prayer to ‘our Mother in Heaven.’ I suppose those … who use this expression and who try to further its use are well-meaning, but they are misguided. The fact that we do not pray to our Mother in Heaven in no way belittles or denigrates her.’ That is the end of the quotation from the talk I gave earlier, to which I may add that none of us can add to or diminish the glory of her of whom we have no revealed knowledge.” (Gordon B. Hinckley, Daughters of God, 1991).
Sounds pretty clear to me. There is no revealed information on Heavenly Mother (other than that she exists). Either Julie is lying, deceived, or, she is sharing sacred and personal revelation publicly that she should not have. Every scenario poses some serious questions and concerns.

34. Not all dogs (or animals for that matter) go to heaven, but rather “there is a place reserved for all of the Lord’s creations” (p. 23). “Heaven” presumably meaning the celestial kingdom?

We have not been given to fully know what the salvation of animals and other creatures entails. Julie’s words, however, may be considered new revelation. What we do have is John in Revelation 5:13 seeing all the creatures worshiping God. We also have Joseph Smith teaching “God glorified himself by saving all that His hands had made, whether beasts, fowls, fishes or men” (HC 5:343). We don’t fully know what this entails either because not all men go to heaven, right? Again, we simply don’t have any revealed information on the salvation of God’s other creations and therefore these are new teachings.

35. Living water (p. 25-26, 151). Julie describes the “Living Water” as actual and real water – ”clear water” (p. 25), “pure water – pure energy” (p. 151). She says that it nourishes and purifies the earth, and that “It was used to water gardens, trees, plants and shrubbery.” “The people soon discovered its purity and goodness, and drank it freely. It had a cleansing effect on their minds, bodies, and souls. It gave them pure energy, which they used in their effort to build the city. I learned that the cleansing power of the ‘Living Water’ discussed in the scriptures, is both literal and figurative.” (p. 151)

Probably new doctrine. Jesus Christ is the source of the “living waters” spoken of throughout scripture and by prophets, which “living waters” have been identified by many latter-day prophets as the priesthood, gospel truths, and the doctrines of salvation (see Elder M. Russell Ballard, April 2013 GC; Quentin L. Cook, Oct. 2007 GC; TPC: Harold B. Lee, chapter 7; TPC: David O. McKay, chapter 12; TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 18). Anything beyond that is new revelation.

Furthermore, this seems to be more teachings by Julie to establish and set a precedent for future “Energy Healing” teachings as she uses “pure energy” to describe these things. See the energy healing section for more on this.

36. Adam and Eve “received many visits from angels to counsel and guide them” (p.31).

We have only record of one angel ever visiting them (Moses 5:6-8). What is the nature and role of angels? Only those who belong to this earth are allowed to minister to it (see D&C 130:5). Were these “many” visits by “angels” done by pre-mortal spirits? I suppose there may be a precedent for multiple angels visiting them on numerous occasions, but we don’t have record of any of this, therefore this is new revelation from Julie.

Update: It has been brought to my attention that there are teachings (namely in the temple) which support multiple angels having visited and ministered to Adam and Eve. Therefore I acknowledge that Julie may be correct on this point.

37. City of Enoch – new teachings and/or revelations concerning the city, including its construction, growth, and protection (p. 33-34). Also of note is the “tangible heavenly energy” reference on page 33 which may be another subtle allusion to energy healing beliefs espoused by Julie.

38. Noah – not only did he preach repentance, but “he sent missionaries out to spread the message of repentance” (p. 34).

Who are these “missionaries” seeing that only Noah, his 3 sons, and their wives were righteous enough to be spared? Were they his sons? If so then why not say he sent his sons out to preach the gospel? If it was someone other than Noah’s family then why weren’t these other righteous missionaries spared from the flood? Though I suppose that there may have been other missionaries, the scriptures only ever indicate that Noah went forth preaching the gospel (see Moses 8:19-20, 23).

39. More negative insinuations about meat eaters. The animals of Noah’s ark, “such as the lions and bears” came last and had to be “subdue[d]” using the power of the priesthood. We don’t have any revelation on these things – only Julie’s word on it – and this again seems to be a subtle indicator of Julie pushing an agenda for veganism. Furthermore, the revelation that Noah had to use the Priesthood and give blessings to “subdue” animals (p. 36-37) is more new revelations not backed by scriptural or prophetic words (insofar as I have found).

40. New revelation about people trying to break into the Ark, etc. (p. 36). While it may be reasonable to suppose that such may have happened we simply don’t have any scriptural or prophetic word on this.

41. Tower destroyed by lightning (p. 37). Scriptures and prophets make no mention of the tower being destroyed, let alone how it would have been done. Therefore this is new revelation. Reason and logic however do not make a strong case for lightning to destroy a “great tower” made of brick and mortar… but perhaps a great earthquake would do the job nicely if one were to speculate…

42. Lots of new and unrevealed information on Potiphar and his wife – their moral character, actions, and motives for doing things. To me Julie’s account of Potiphar’s wife doesn’t come across as ringing with truth, but rather as a sensationalized narrative in order to play on the emotions of the reader. Whatever the case though, much of it is more new information that hasn’t been revealed in scripture or by prophets before.

43. Potiphar’s wife’s garments. Julie says “She tore his garment from his body as he fled,… I watched as Potiphar’s wife then took her own garments and tore them, making it look as if Joseph had ripped them” (p. 41).

The scriptures and latter-day revelation make no mention of Potiphar’s wife tearing her own clothing to add to the illusion and deception. Such evidence, had it happened, would have been even more damning to Joseph than simply having his cloak and would likely have been mentioned had it happened. This is new teachings from Julie.

44. Passover, part 3. Julie says that a “sickness” is to come into the land to slay the firstborn of every Egyptian (p. 43).

While the scriptures use the term “plague” there is no indication that this is a “sickness.” Indeed, the term “plague” had been used for other events Moses prophesied of and many of them weren’t anything remotely akin to a disease or sickness. The scriptures suggest that it was the Lord himself who went through and slayed all the firstborn – note all the times he identifies himself as doing this: Exodus 11:4-5, 9, 11; Exodus 12:12-13, 23, 27, 29, and 42. Granted, the Lord might have fulfilled it by using a sickness… but he may well have sent destroying angels or some other means. Speaking of which, Julie seems to cover her bases (contradict herself?) on this very point by saying that it was a “sickness” and then in the very next breath says it was a “Destroying Angel” (p. 43). Either way, this is likely new teachings.

45. Moses and the Red Sea (p. 44-45). “Angelic forces… creating barriers”? Doesn’t sound much like how the scriptures describe the events…

46. First Vision, part 3. “I witnessed a young teenage boy, Joseph Smith, talking to his parents, particularly to his mother, about the things he was hearing and witnessing amongst the people in his small town. He asked what she thought of it all, and if she believed that God had a true church. He asked her if she felt any of the congregations in their town taught the truth, as written in the King James Bible. They had many discussions about this topic” (p. 75).

Insofar as we have any revealed knowledge we simply don’t know that Joseph discussed anything with his parents or other family members. While it may be possible and perhaps even likely that he did, he also may have just kept his thoughts, questions, and concerns to himself. There is no indication (that I can find) in his writings or that of his mother or others that would suggest he talked with them about these matters beforehand. We just don’t know if he confided his feelings and concerns with family or not.

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

C. Inconsistencies/Contradictions

There appear to be some inconsistencies and/or contradictions in Julie’s story, such that things don’t make sense in light of the facts or information given. The following are some of these inconsistencies and/or contradictions within Julie’s account:

47. Julie says that her NDE is a visit to the “spirit world” (p. 1), and later, John, her spirit guide, also makes it known that they are in the “spirit world” (p. 12). This is important to note because they are not in “heaven” or some other place and there are certain laws, qualities, and characteristics that are specifically unique to the “spirit world” than to other places. This revelation that she was in the spirit world brings up some questions and doctrinal issues – many of which are covered in the False Doctrines/Teachings section.

48. Hospitalized, suffering from very serious and unknown health issues (p. 1). Nowhere are we ever informed or find out what the very serious health issue was (not that it’s terribly important to know these things). I mention this because later in the book (p. 157-159) when she finally returns to her body, it seems that whatever else the serious problem may have been, Julie and the hospital staff appear out of character. Namely, she is able to get up out of bed, walk around, and then leave her hospital room and go talk to a nurse at the nurse’s station about her condition. There is no mention whatever of life support monitors, IV’s, catheters, etc., all of which Julie surely must have been hooked up to considering the condition she was in… not to mention an embarrassingly immodest hospital gown. No – instead she just gets up and walks around the hospital freely as though staying at a hotel instead of a hospital in critical condition. Perhaps it did happen as Julie describes, but it just seems inconsistent and unreasonable to me based on my own hospital stays and those of close family or friends.

49. Veil of forgetfulness. All prophetic statements I can find to the veil of forgetfulness suggest that it is only a part of our mortal state. One would assume, therefore, that if you die and pass through the veil after death then the veil of forgetfulness would be removed and you would instantly know and be aware of things that you had “forgotten” because of mortality. This quote from Brigham Young suggests the veil would be removed even for “temporary visitors,” as he says that “When the spirits leave their bodies, … they are prepared then to see, hear and understand spiritual things” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church (TPC): Brigham Young, chapter 38). Brigham Young taught further that “when we go through the veil we shall know much more about these matters than we now do, for we shall possess all the sensibilities we now possess, brightened and increased in intensity by the visions and power of the spirit world, to an extent of which you now have no idea” (Brigham Young, JOD 8:277). It comes to mind also that Joseph Smith once said “Could you gaze into heaven five minutes, you would know more than you would by reading all that was ever written on the subject” (TPJS p. 324), suggesting that even in our mortal state we can rend the veil. Granted, heaven is not the same as the spirit world, but it seems reasonable, in my mind at least, that the same principle applies.

And yet constantly it seems that Julie is completely oblivious to many things that should come naturally. She doesn’t even know where she is and John has to inform her that she’s “in the Spirit World for a brief visit” (p. 12). She also has to be reminded of her pre-mortal life (p. 12). There’s other occasions, strangely, where she doesn’t know people that are supposed to be her ancestors – something that I think would be quite apparent or instinctive – and they have to introduce themselves to her (even though they know who she is without ever having been introduced – see pages 23-25). Another such instance is found on page 98 where Julie says “I was shown specific people beyond the veil that I do not know, but it was made clear to me that they are my ancestors.”

Update: It has been suggested to me that the veil of forgetfulness might not be completely removed after death. Evidence of this is that righteous spirits do missionary work to those in spirit prison, suggesting that they do not suddenly have a complete knowledge of things they had once known. I wonder though if this only applies to those spirits in prison and that they are still under the influence of satan and their minds are darkened (see point 54).

50. Short-term memory. Similar to the above point, Julie seems to experience very short-term memory, forgetting things she just saw or learned while in the spirit world.

While at the library reading, Julie was able to see the founding fathers and witness their lives and the birth of our country. She names many of the founders specifically that she learned about. Later, after leaving the library, she and John happen upon a group of people who (unbeknownst to her at the time) are the “Founding Fathers, and other leaders of our nation” (p. 69). Julie was then “introduced to the group” and says that “Most of them were unfamiliar to me” and then “quickly learned” who they were. But why would she not immediately recognize them as the founding fathers when she had just learned all about them back at the library?

Another example is when she witnesses the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, his atonement, death, and resurrection – she spends several pages witnessing and testifying of Christ’s mission and atonement, and the Plan of Salvation, and how these things “were made very clear to [her]” (see pages 60-65). Yet, moments later, after she witnesses the great apostasy and dark ages she begins to feel terrible for her own sins and weaknesses, and John has to remind her “once again of the Plan of Salvation as outlined by the Savior, and the power of the Atonement” and “its saving and healing power” (p. 66). And again later, “John reminded me about many of the things I had previously been taught” (p. 67). This seems rather forgetful of her… especially considering that (presumably) in the spirit world there is no veil of forgetfulness covering our minds.

51. Telepathy. Julie says “every living thing, the grass, the flowers, the trees, the animals–all that I saw–were able to communicate with me and with each other telepathically” (p. 12).

Yet later, in many instances, she is apparently unable to discern things through this telepathic method of communication and must ask John for information or understanding. For example, on the very next page (13) she sees a tree but doesn’t know what kind it is; instead of asking the tree what type it is, or the tree telepathically sensing her question and answering her itself, she asks John if it was some type of willow – to which he replies no. Another later example, upon seeing a Golden Retriever she asks John – instead of the dog – if all dogs go to heaven (p. 23). Julie later gives an example of spirit beings able to (seemingly naturally) discern or understand unknown or uncommunicated things about others when she goes to help some people making food – somehow they know who Julie is by name, even though she and John never introduced her to them, but on the same token she doesn’t know who they are and must be introduced (p.23-25).

52. “I had been born into a loving home with parents who taught me the gospel of Jesus Christ” (p. xi). Yet, all throughout the book, she is expressing that she is being taught and learning in her visit to the spirit world many things that are very basic gospel teachings, as if she never really learned it to begin with (See pages 14-17, and all throughout the book really). It may be that she truly is being taught these things for a reason, but it sure is an exercise of patience reading about Julie being taught all these simple and basic gospel doctrines and principles she surely must have learned since childhood.

53. While talking with John, Julie is shown, presumably in some sort of vision-like manner, “scenes from my premortal life,” and “the roles I played there,” “the War in Heaven, as well as various scenes that have played out on earth throughout the history of mankind” (p. 14). She is later shown in this same vision-like manner “what was currently going on at home with my husband and three children” (p. 18). As Julie and John continue to visit she is further “shown various scenes from my life in years past, as well as scenes that would happen in my life in the future” (p. 19). She is also “shown there would be specific people who would come into my life at the right times” (p. 19).

So, it is clearly evident that Julie is able to easily see in vision (perhaps with John’s help?) her pre-mortal and mortal life – past, present, and future – as well as the lives of her family, and many other people throughout all of history, both directly and indirectly related to her… and yet later in the book and her visit to the spirit world John somehow requires her to read a book in the “library” (point #56), read the “Book of Life” (point #58), and look through “The Window of Heaven” to learn the very same things she was able to do freely, and without the aid of any instruments, earlier.

54. Influences of Satan over her while in the spirit world? While in the spirit world and having the above experience (point #53) Julie says “I expressed my fears and insecurities” (p. 15), and later, “I again expressed my fears about returning to earth to my sick body” to John (p. 19).

The scriptures teach “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind” (2 Tim. 1:7). Do these statements of fears and doubts by Julie indicate an influence from satan over her? If so, Brigham Young taught “If we are faithful to our religion, when we go into the spirit world, the fallen spirits – Lucifer and the third part of the heavenly hosts that came with him, and the spirits of wicked men who have dwelt upon this earth, the whole of them combined will have no influence over our spirits. Is that not an advantage? Yes. All the rest of the children of men are more or less subject to them as they were while here in the flesh. Here [the faithful] shall be perplexed and hunted by him; but when we go into the spirit world there we are masters over the power of satan, and he cannot afflict us any more, and that is enough for me to know” (TPC: Brigham Young, chapter 38).

I don’t know much, if anything, about fears and doubts while in the spirit world, but it would seem reasonable to me that if we are righteous, as Brigham Young taught, then when we enter the spirit world, even if it were temporarily, satan and his followers would have no influence over us. Also, if I had just been shown various scenes about my future (unless it was a really terrible future) that I would be more confident and hopeful of the future. I would hope that, like in the pre-mortal life, if any fears or doubts do exist they would be swallowed up in the promise of a glorious future and that I would “shout for joy.” Still, there very well may be fears and concerns for one who is returning to a mortal life that may be full of hardships and trials that we just don’t understand. I don’t know.

55. “Christopher Columbus,” part 3. In the “Library” Julie is instructed by John to read a book – she opens the book and reads that the title of it is “Christopher Columbus” (p. 29). She then begins to read “different sections of the book on various topics” (p. 29). For the next ~40 pages (it’s on page 68 when they finally leave the “Library.”) of Julie’s book she shares a wide variety of things she learns from this book on “Christopher Columbus.” Prior to this I can’t find any indicator that she has stopped reading the book “Christopher Columbus,” and presumably everything she learns while in the “Library” is in fact a direct result of reading this book on “Christopher Columbus” because she recounts “During this exercise [of “speed-reading” this book], I learned… about Christopher Columbus, early explorers, and the Founding Fathers of the United States of America. … It was here that I was shown details of the lives of prophets and apostles from all generations of time… I was also shown more about the lives of other well-known historical figures throughout time. … I learned about Mother Eve, Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel and Leah, Deborah, Mary, the mother of Jesus; Emma Smith, Eliza R. Snow, and others from the scriptures and from modern days. One of the pages I turned to was about Joan of Arc.I then saw a great panorama of historical events” (p. 29-31).

She learned all of those things from reading a book about Christopher Columbus? Very few (maybe 2-3%, if that?) of the things she is shown and/or learns has anything whatever to do with Columbus. I find it hard to believe that Julie was able to open up and read and learn anything and everything about anything and everything and very little about the supposed subject matter in this book on Columbus.

56. “Christopher Columbus,” part 4. By reading this book Julie is able to learn about many historical events, from pre-mortality all the way up to and including the present (p. 30-31). The way she learns and is shown these events seems to be through vision or seeing them live, as she describes about Joan of Arc saying, “Images and scenes from her life flooded into my mind and it was as if I were watching live video of the events” (p. 31). Another example that this seems to be the case is her words “I then saw a great panorama of historic events” (p. 31). A plethora of other examples liberally pepper her pages as she is constantly stating things such as “I watched,” “I saw,” “I witnessed,” “I was shown,” “as the scene unfolded,” etc., etc.

This pattern of watching and seeing things in a vision-like manner happened earlier when she first came into the spirit world and was visiting with John (see point #53). Then, as now, she was shown a great many things and wide variety of historic events – past, present, and even future. So if she could see and experience these things in the same exact manner and just as easily as before then why was it necessary to even go to the “Library” at all? Why read this book on “Christopher Columbus”? Surely she could have simply experienced and seen these events without the need to go there and read a book, right?

57. Penalty for Joseph’s alleged crimes is supposed to be immediate imprisonment and death (p. 41). Yet somehow contrary to the laws of the land Joseph is never executed for his alleged crimes, even though it was some “time” before Potiphar’s wife “eventually” confessed that she had lied about the whole thing. Still, this did nothing to requite him from the force of law and he was kept in prison. Speaking of which, apparently Potiphar is powerful enough to pick and choose which parts of the law will be enforced as he allows Joseph to live but still be imprisoned simply because he “felt very threatened by Joseph” (p. 42).

58. Book of Life, part 1. After leaving the Library John takes Julie to another building (which seems to be another library of sorts) and takes her to a room filled “from floor to ceiling” with books (p. 73). In here John shows Julie another book called the “Book of Life,” which “contain every deed, word, thought, feeling, intent and action that has ever occurred at any time in the history of the world. … The Book of Life contains the entire history of the earth, including every person since the beginning of the Creation. … It is not simply a book about the past. It also includes the present and possibilities for the future” (p. 74). Julie says that “Although it was a book, it was as if I was watching video footage of these events” (p.74)

So here we again have Julie witnessing historical events in some sort of vision-like manner, just as when John first guided her into the spirit world (point #53) and again in the Library reading the book “Christopher Columbus” (point #56). In fact it’s as if she is reading the same book because it picks up right where she left off. In “Christopher Columbus” she witnessed historical events from pre-mortal life and the Creation all the way up through and including the founding of America (p. 29-30), and in the “Book of Life” she starts out with the founding of America (p. 74-75) and continues on to the present and even into the future until the final battle.

What is the point and purpose of all of this? If this one single book contained “every deed, word, thought, feeling, intent and action that has ever occurred at any time in the history of the world,” and not just from the past but also “the present and possibilities for the future,” then why didn’t John take her straight here to read this book? Why even bother taking her to the Library in the first place? It just doesn’t make sense to me that Julie has to have four different experiences In the spirit world (1)John showing her things in vision, 2) “Christopher Columbus” book, 3) “Book of Life,” and 4) “Windows of Heaven”) that all essentially fulfill the same exact function and purpose.

59. Book of Life, part 2. Using the same citation as above, if this one single book does everything described above then what is the purpose of all the other books? Just the one room alone is filled “from floor to ceiling” with books… who knows what’s in the other rooms… and the Library itself probably has countless more books… So, in all likelihood there is untold hundreds of thousands and probably millions of books represented… Why not just have the one book that does it all?

60. Book of Life, part 3. Using the same citation as above, Julie says how this one book is about everything and anything about anyone who has, or will ever, inhabit this earth… But then in the same breath says very explicitly that “He opened the book and directed my full attention to the page he opened. It listed my name. He showed me specific passages. It was a book of records about MY life” (p. 74).

I’m a little confused as to how it is a book of records very specifically for Julie Rowe, but yet it’s about anyone and everyone. I can see how that since it is about anyone and everyone that Julie would be included, but then why does Julie feel the need to express very explicitly and emphatically, even to the point of capitalizing “MY,” and say that “it was a book of records about MY life” when it supposedly contained far more than just her life? Speaking of which…

61. Book of Life, part 4. Julie says quite emphatically that “It was a book of records about MY life” (p. 74). Yet not once does she describe anything at all even remotely related to her own life. Instead, everything she talks about seeing and witnessing is the continuation of historical events as mentioned above in point #56. In fact it isn’t until after she had finished reading the Book of Life and continued on her tour of the spirit world, when she later has a “life review” (p. 101-104) that we learn anything specifically about Julie’s own personal life. One would assume that if they were going to have a “life review” it would be while reading a “book of records about MY life.”

62. First Vision, part 4. “Upon their leaving, I saw Joseph lying on the ground in complete exhaustion. I saw him fall upon his face, overcome with tears and strong emotion, as he came to the realization of what had just occurred” (p. 78-79).

In one sentence Julie says that after the First Vision Joseph is already lying on the ground (which Joseph’s account verifies happened), and then suddenly in the next sentence she says that he falls upon his face, suggesting that he was standing up. This is a contradiction of herself… unless she is saying that they were one and the same event, in which case she would be contradicting Joseph Smith who said that when he came to himself “I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven” (JS-H 1:20). If she is describing two separate events – such that Joseph is lying down, gets up, and then falls on his face – then this would both be inconsistent with Joseph’s account, and also considered new revelation from Julie.

63. In her return to her body later in the book Julie describes her struggles and pains in sitting up, getting out of the bed, and walking to the door. The things she describes takes several minutes, even if these things are happening simultaneously rather than consecutively – such that she feels tingly sensations for several minutes, walks to a mirror near the door, has blurry vision for several minutes, and after that it takes her a few minutes to realize where she is. She then leaves her room and goes out to a nurse’s station where she begins talking with one. How is it that no nurses came to check on her and no doctors come to examine her to make sure she was alright after having awoken from a critical situation and/or death? Instead they talk to her nonchalantly as though they were talking to a visitor instead of a patient.

64. Nurse or spirit guide? After her return to her body, when Julie goes to the nurse’s station, she describes a “beautiful woman” that she instantly recognizes and describes as one who was “assigned to accompany me” (p. 158). This lady then begins to comfort Julie, knows exactly how she is feeling and going through, etc. as Julie struggles to get re-adjusted to her mortal body.

The way Julie describes this lady it’s almost as though she is some sort of spirit guide or someone that is “assigned” to help her as she transitions back into her mortal body. Yet, at the same time, this is a very real and mortal person and is presumably a nurse that is helping Julie out. The way Julie describes her I can’t make out if this lady is some sort of spirit guide, or if she’s just a nurse. If she’s just a nurse why would she be “assigned to accompany” her, and how would she know exactly what Julie is going through and experiencing and thus able to show empathy to, comfort, and assure her? Yet if she’s a spirit guide then why would she be at the nurses station for Julie to approach and talk to her as a mortal person who is a nurse and then later gives Julie some water?

65. Heaven, or Spirit World? At the beginning of chapter 6, “Mansions in Heaven,” Julie states that she leaves the Spirit World and is taken to another place – presumably heaven. “It seemed almost instantly we had left the earth and were in another world. … I have seen the Throne of God and the Savior of Mankind standing on the right hand of God” (p. 97).

Yet later in this same chapter there is no indication by Julie that they have ever left “heaven” but she goes on to describe things as though she were again in the spirit world. For example, “I was shown specific people beyond the veil that I do not know, but it was made clear to me that they are my ancestors” (p. 98), “There are two main divisions in the Spirit World. They are known as Paradise and Spirit Prison. … I was shown that there are millions of people in Spirit Prison who have been and are being taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ” (p. 98), and more teachings specifically about missionary work in the spirit world (p. 98-100). Again later she is taken to some other places (p. 101. in heaven or the spirit world – I do not know) including a place where she is allowed to look through “The Window of Heaven” (p. 105). So I’m confused as to whether Julie is in the spirit world or heaven at this point as she describes things that would be suggestive of both places.

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

D. Plagiarism

Plagiarism is the act of taking somebody else’s work and passing it off as your own. This, at a basic level, is theft and dishonest. Plagiarism can involve entire works, or just bits and pieces of other people’s works, but either way the result is the same. Obviously it is much easier to identify plagiarism if the person is using large portions of the other person’s works, and it is much more difficult to identify if only bits and pieces are the same and the person plagiarizing rewords things to sound differently from the original source material.

I believe Julie has indeed plagiarized some portions of her book from other sources including from the scriptures and also from other people’s NDE’s and possibly dreams and visions. This to give her account much more authenticity and also in a deliberate attempt to deceive others. Remember, her book and account is supposedly completely true and all hers – not borrowed from other people’s. She has claimed this very publicly on a number of occasions, in her book, online, and elsewhere.

Let’s then compare Julie’s words and account of things she claims to have seen in her purported NDE with other sources. I will post Julie’s account side by side with another source so you can quickly and more easily compare what differences, if any, there are. I will color code any differences in the text – bold is text that is exactly the same in both accounts, green is text that says essentially the same thing just worded differently, red is major differences in Julie’s text, and blue is major differences in the other text. I will also number (in parenthesis) the subject matter that is the same in both accounts in the order it is presented by Julie so that you can see if there are differences in sentence structure when compared to the other source. Note then the level of plagiarism involved and how similar Julie’s account is to some of these other sources:

66. The lake (p. 11-12). This lake experience and description reminded me eerily of Sarah Menet’s description/experience in her NDE book, as if Julie was “borrowing” it from Sarah. I looked them both up and compared them and this is what I found:

Julie Rowe
“(1)I walked with John across this beautiful field, (2)and we came upon the most incredibly beautiful lake. (3)It was crystal clear (4)and of a silvery blue color (5)that sparkled in the bright sunlight. (6)We stood together on the shore, and John encouraged me to gaze into the water. (7)In the lake I could see all manner of fish swimming around. There were varieties I have never before seen on this earth. There were varieties of every kind in several different sizes, shapes and species. (3)The lake was so clear (8)but so deep that it went beyond my vision and I could not see the bottom – as if it went on and on forever. (9)The water was seemingly alive, and the fish and other organisms that lived in this lake were full of energy and intelligence. (p. 11-12)

Sarah Menet
“(1)In the distance and all around me were magnificent hills covered with trees, grass, and flowers of every hue imaginable. (2)I stood by a large and beautiful lake located to the right of me and I felt no fear, which was very unusual. … Now, as I stood before this very large lake, the intense fear that had always been a part of me was inexplicably gone. Fear was replaced with a fascination for the body of water that spread out next to me. It was overwhelmingly beautiful. (5)The water glistened like diamonds (4)and had the appearance of liquid silver. (6)As I leaned over the edge, (3)the water was crystal clear, (8)and I found that I could see for miles, clear down to the bottom. I don’t know how deep it was, but it was very, very deep. (7)There were tremendous numbers and varieties of fish swimming through the underwater foliage that was everywhere waving in the currents. The fish and foliage were of the most vivid colors – very bright and not of our world. … (9)Instinctively I knew that the water was alive in its own way with a spirit about itself, and that it would not harm me.” (There Is No Death, p. 27-29)

Comparing them together there does seem to be more than a passing resemblance. All the major points and elements are the same from one to another, albeit arranged in a slightly different order, and some of the words used are the same. There are some distinct differences though, such as Sarah sees the bottom of the lake, but Julie can’t, and Sarah describes the colors of the fish being out of this world, whereas Julie says it’s the fish varieties themselves that are out of this world. There is only one major difference between the two accounts – namely that Sarah talks about how in mortality she had a paralyzing fear of water, but in the spirit world this fear was completely gone, while Julie talks about how the fish and other organism were “full of energy and intelligence.”

While it may be possible that they both saw and described similar things (much like Lehi and Nephi seeing and describing the tree of life), in my opinion I feel that Julie merely plagiarized Sarah’s account. I believe she copied all the major elements of Sarah’s account, reworded and rearranged most of it to make it sound like it was her own story, and also removed the bit about Sarah’s fears of water (since it didn’t apply to Julie), and added in her own bit in support of “energy healing.” The similarities are definitely worth considering, especially in light of the other more obvious plagiarisms by Julie which I will cover below.

67. Joseph of Egypt. Julie’s odd usage of words “Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh and the captain of the guard, bought him from the Ishmaelites” sounded so strange and out of character for Julie, and so similar to the language used in scriptures, that I just had to look them up and compare. Digging deeper, this is what I found:

Julie’s Account
“(1)There were important lessons to be found throughout their lives, (2)particularly the way Jacob’s son Joseph persevered in his challenges (3)through faith and obedience.” (p. 39)

Scripture Account
“(1)The story is especially instructive (2)in showing the discipline of misfortune and also that (3)the Lord rewards his obedient children according to their faithfulness.” (Bible Dictionary: Joseph)

Julie’s Account
“(1)Potiphar, (2)an officer of Pharaoh and the (3)captain of the guard, (4)bought him from the Ishmaelites. (5)The Lord protected Joseph and was with him. (6)He was a righteous man (7)and had been taught to work hard. (8)Potiphar noticed Joseph’s fine qualities (9)and Joseph found grace in his master’s sight, (10)and he served him well. (11)Potiphar trusted Joseph so much that he made him overseer of his whole house (12)and all that he had.” (p. 40)

Scripture Account
“(1)Potiphar, (2)an officer of Pharaoh, (3)captain of the guard, an Egyptian, (4)bought him of the hands of the Ishmeelites. (5)And the Lord was with Joseph, (6)and he was a prosperous man; (7)and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian. (8)And his master saw that the Lord was with him, and that the Lord made all that he did to prosper in his hand. (9)And Joseph found grace in his sight, (10)and he served him: (11)and he made him overseer over his house, (12)and all that he had he put into his hand.” (Genesis 39:1-4)

Julie’s Account
“(1)Under Joseph’s hand, the Lord blessed Potiphar’s house and all that he possessed. (2)Potiphar came to recognize Joseph’s talents and abilities, and eventually gave him command of everything he owned and governed. (3)Joseph rose in strength and power.” (p.40)

Scripture Account
“(1)And it came to pass from the time that he had made him overseer in his house, and over all that he had, that the Lord blessed the Egyptian’s house for Joseph’s sake; and the blessing of the Lord was upon all that he had in the house, and in the field. (2)And he left all that he had in Joseph’s hand; and he knew not ought he had, save the bread which he did eat. (3)And Joseph was a goodly person, and well favoured.” (Gen. 39:5-6)

Julie’s Account
“(1)He did not escape the eyes of Potiphar’s wife. (2)She grew fond of Joseph and desired him for herself. I witnessed the cunning advances of Potiphar’s wife, and her craftiness in trying to seduce Joseph. (3)She attempted to snare him many times, using everything in her power to try tempting Joseph to commit adultery with her. (4)He did all he could to turn away from such temptation, purposefully avoiding her when possible. (5)He made many attempts to distance himself from her, but she continued to pursue him aggressively.” (p. 40)

Scripture Account
“And it came to pass after these things, that (1)his master’s wife cast her eyes upon Joseph; (2)and she said, Lie with me. (4)But he refused,… (3)And it came to pass, as she spake to Joseph day by day, (5)that he hearkened not unto her…” (Gen. 39:7-8,10)

This is an almost perfect match, point by point, frequently word for word, line after line of each other. Consider especially the words and phrases Julie uses that are exactly the same as found in scripture. Where there are differences you can see that they still essentially say the same things, just worded differently. Even where there are major differences in wording, such as Julie’s “and had been taught to work hard” it could be extrapolated from “and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian” that well, yes, being a slave in your master’s house will teach one to work hard or else… The odds of all of this happening just by happenstance or a fluke are astronomically low, and the chances of it being outright plagiarism (with a few minor changes and embellishments) by Julie is astronomically high.

Only when Potiphar’s wife enters the scene does there begin to be some departure from the order of events described in both accounts; but even here all the same key points are there, just arranged differently by Julie, and here she begins to embellish her story significantly beyond what the scriptural account relates.

Also note the usage of words and phrases that are not in common usage in today’s English, but is in the scriptures, and which Julie uses: “found grace in his sight,” “made him overseer.” These are again more evidences that Julie is plagiarizing from the scriptures in order to fabricate her account.

This also, in my estimation, shows that Julie has a certain level of intelligence and knowledge and that she is purposefully and with forethought using the scriptures to try establishing credibility in order to deceive others. She is purposely using the scriptures and only making slight or minor changes so as to appear that she is describing these events from her own supposed NDE instead of quoting scripture. This isn’t the only time that Julie seems to be plagiarizing scriptures or other sources in order to make her book seem more genuine and real. Believe me, we’ll get to some more doozies soon enough…

68. Potiphar’s wife’s garments. Julie says “She tore his garment from his body as he fled,… I watched as Potiphar’s wife then took her own garments and tore them, making it look as if Joseph had ripped them” (p. 41).

Here is an odd usage of words. In our culture it is far more common to use “clothing” instead of “garments.” This is especially true in Mormon culture where “garments” are very frequently a reference to sacred temple garments specifically. Yet in the scriptures the term “garments” is commonly used and refers to items of clothing, not necessarily special or sacred in usage. This, I believe, is another indicator that Julie is using the scriptures as a source for writing her book instead of her own life’s experience.

69. David and Goliath. There are many instances in Julie’s book where she seems to be taking quotes directly from other sources – including the scriptures – and passing them off as her own words. This is yet another one. In fact, so uncanny is her ability to quote others, word for word in many instances with very little (if any) variation, that the only possible explanation (at least that I can honestly entertain) is plagiarism. See for yourself:

Julie’s Account
“(1)I watched as he was instructed to take food to the camps of the Israelite soldiers. (2)I saw him approach the camp of his older brothers, (3)and overheard their conversations regarding the battle. (4)Just as it is recorded in the scriptures, David was there when Goliath approached the Israelites and threatened to destroy them. (5)I heard David inquire about the Philistine, and what would happen to the man who was able to successfully kill Goliath. (6)I watched as David’s older brother, Eliab, (7)became angry at him, (8)questioning David’s presence there (9)and scolding him for leaving the sheep he was herding. (10)I listened to David’s brave response to his brother (11) and others there, (12)standing up to them in defense of his cause.” (p.48)

Scripture Account
“(1) compare 1 Sam. 17:17-18,20. (2) And David left his carriage… and came and saluted his brethren (vs. 22). (3)And as he talked with them, (4)behold, there came up the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, out of the armies of the Philistines, and spake according to the same words: (3?)and David heard them (vs. 23). (5)And David spake to the men that stood by him, saying, What shall be done to the man that killeth this Philistine,…? (vs 26). (6)And Eliab his eldest brother heard when he spake unto the men; (7)and Eliab’s anger was kindled against David, (8)and he said, Why camest thou down hither? (9)And with whom hast thou left those few sheep in the wilderness? (vs 28). (10)And David said, What have I now done? (12) Is there not a cause? (vs 29). (11)And he turned from him toward another, and spake after the same manner.” (vs 30)

Julie’s Account
“(1)Like this stripling warrior” (p. 49).

Scripture Account
“(1)And the king said, Inquire thou whose son the stripling is” (1 Sam. 17:56)

Julie’s Account
“(1)David later became a very powerful man. (2)Like Saul, he was guilty of grave crimes, (3)but unlike Saul, David felt great sorrow and contrition for the sins he committed. (4)In spite of these great disasters, David accomplished many great things in his life. (5)He played a key role in uniting the tribes of Israel into one nation. (6)He secured possession of his country. (7)He established a government founded on religious laws and principles. (8)The will of God was the law of Israel. (9)David’s reign, and the government he established, gave the Israelite people an example or type of a better day–a more glorious day when the Messiah would reign personally upon the earth.” (p. 49)

Scripture Account
“(1)Each successive phase of experience developed in him the conscious dependence upon God that was the secret of his strength throughout his life. (2)Like Saul he was guilty of grave crimes; (3)but unlike Saul, he was capable of true contrition and was therefore able to find forgiveness, except in the murder of Uriah. … (4)In spite of these disasters David’s reign was the most brilliant of Israelite history, (5)for he united the tribes into one nation, (6)he secured undisputed possession of the country, (7)the whole government rested upon a religious basis, (8)and the will of God was the law of Israel. (9)For these reasons it was in later times regarded as the nation’s golden age and the type of the more glorious age to which the nation looked forward when Messiah should come.” (Bible Dictionary: David, p. 653-654)

In the section on David and Goliath all 12 points, excepting (3?) and (11), are in the same exact order. In the case of point (3?) I believe Julie may have thought the word “them” was the same “them” as found earlier in the verse – i.e. his brothers, and therefore wrote that David overheard their conversations, thus clumping it together into (3). Instead, I think “them” was in reference to Goliath’s words. In the case of point (11) it flows better to the reader if David were speaking to his brother and others together, as Julie wrote it, instead of speaking first to his brother, then turning and speaking to others the same way as the scriptures read. Also, in this same section, you can see there is very little quoting word for word of the scriptures by Julie, instead she says most all the same things just using different words. There are a few key words she left in her text, namely “to the man” and “cause,” which hint that she is still plagiarizing from the scriptures in order to fabricate her own story.

The part about the stripling warrior may or may not be indicative of plagiarism. Stripling is a very uncommon term, definitely not in modern usage and very unlikely to be used, and therefore would suggest a correlation… however, it is commonly used in Mormon culture in reference to the “stripling warriors” from the Book of Mormon and Julie may have been relating David to these other warriors.

In the section on the rest of David’s life and overview this plagiarism becomes immediately and clearly evident. She only made a half-hearted attempt to reword things, probably on the assumption that nobody would find out that she had used the Bible Dictionary as a reference and source for her materials. About half of the text is an exact copy, word for word and nearly punctuation for punctuation, of what is found in the Bible Dictionary, and all the points are in the same exact order. Oh what tangled webs we weave when at first we practice to deceive…

70. In the above points I have shown you very clearly that there is a pattern of Julie liberally “borrowing” from the scriptures in order to write her own book. Go take a look at any section in Julie’s book wherein she “witnesses” a scriptural event and compare it with the scriptural account. I can almost guarantee you that point by point, very often using the same or similar words, she is simply retelling the scriptural account. In those instances she isn’t closely following the scriptures she appears to be embellishing her story to sound more dramatic or authentic – sometimes interjecting new revelations that aren’t backed up by scriptures or prophetic revelations. Samson and Delilah, Elijah, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, Daniel, Lehi’s Family, 2000 Stripling Warriors, and on, and on, and on… No wonders so many people have complained that they’re not learning anything new from Julie’s book – because they aren’t! Do yourself a favor and don’t spend the $15 for this book; instead, read and study the scriptures – they will be far more revealing and enlightening…

71. First Vision. It seems that Julie may be borrowing from Joseph Smith’s account of the First Vision in order to write her own account. She does in fact acknowledge at one point that they are essentially the same when she says “True to Joseph’s own account, …” But let’s take a closer look:

Julie Rowe
“(1)Despite the overwhelming powers of the adversary, (2)who not only sought to obscure his ability to pray, (3)but had set out to destroy him, (4)Joseph mustered all of his strength and power (5)and called upon God to deliver him (6)from the darkness that had enveloped him. I witnessed this struggle and saw with my own eyes as I was shown how things played out. True to Joseph’s own account, (7)just as he was ready to give up to despair and total exhaustion – (8)just at that moment, to his great alarm – (9)he saw a pillar of light above him. (10)I watched as this great light increased in size and brightness. (11)It was a brilliant light, and it completely dispelled the darkness. (12)The light rested upon Joseph and as it did so, Joseph’s entire frame and figure changed from one of great despair and exhaustion, to that of complete calm and awe. (13)In the light stood two beings, (14)whose brightness and glory were so incredible, there is no way I could describe the intensity. I recognized them immediately for who they were, (15)and I witnessed one say to Joseph, addressing him by name, “This is my beloved son. Hear Him!” (p. 76-77)

Joseph Smith
“I had scarcely done so, when immediately (1)I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, (2)and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. (6)Thick darkness gathered around me, (3)and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction. (4)But, exerting all my powers (5)to call upon God to deliver me (6)out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, (7)and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction – not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being – (8)just at this moment of great alarm, (9)I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, (10)above the brightness of the sun, (12)which descended gradually until it fell upon me. (11)It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. (12)When the light rested upon me (13)I saw two Personages, (14)whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. (15)One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other – This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!” (JS-H 1:15-17)

Except for a few minor changes the sentence structure and order is the same. Many of the words are exactly the same. As you will note however there are some differences, things that are added or left out by Julie, and many things that have been reworded to try and say the same things. I believe that she has in fact tried too hard to change and alter Joseph’s account in order to make it appear as though it was her own telling that she ended up contradicting Joseph’s account in a number of places and unwittingly provided evidence of plagiarism…

Contradictions:
  • The first contradiction is item (6) where Julie says that Joseph called upon God to deliver him from the “darkness” but Joseph says that he called upon God to deliver him from the “power” of the enemy. There is a distinct difference and Joseph clarifies that the “power” of this enemy included binding the tongue (2), thick darkness (6), and the threat of destruction (3, 7).
  • The second contradiction is item (7) where Julie says that Joseph was about to give up to despair and “exhaustion” whereas Joseph says that it was despair and “destruction.” Again there is a significant difference between exhaustion and destruction and Joseph clearly states that this threat of destruction was very real and powerful.
  • The third contradiction is items (7-9). Julie says that “True to Joseph’s own account, just as he was ready to give up in despair and total exhaustion – just at that moment, to his great alarm – he saw a pillar of light above him.” The way this sentence is worded by Julie makes it sound as if the pillar of light above Joseph is the cause of his great alarm. Yet this is not true – it was the power and influence of satan beforehand that caused his alarm as Joseph more clearly states in his account.
  • The fourth contradiction is item (10) where Julie says that the pillar of light “increased in size and brightness.” Joseph makes no mention of the light growing in size or brightness, but rather it seems that this pillar of light appears instantly and was already brighter than the sun. The only possible inference of size is that the light gradually descended, but I don’t think that implies the light changed in size, but rather in location. Compare with Joseph’s later account when Moroni appears where he does say the light grows brighter (JS-H 1:30)
  • The fifth contradiction is items (11, 12) where Julie implies that Joseph isn’t completely delivered until after the light descends and rests upon him. Joseph on the other hand says that as soon as the light appeared he was delivered, and then the light descended and rested upon him.
Another indication of plagiarism is found in the change of sentence structure. Julie moved item (6) out of sequence whereas Joseph introduced the fact that he was enveloped in thick darkness earlier in the account. This causes Julie’s account to not sound right as we are never informed that there was any darkness until after Joseph calls upon God for deliverance from it.

One final thing I would point out is where Julie says “I recognized them immediately for who they were, and I witnessed one say to Joseph, addressing him by name, “This is my beloved son. Hear Him!” Julie states that she immediately recognized God the Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, for who they were, but then instead of identifying Heavenly Father as the first person who began speaking she uses Joseph’s own words, who, at the time, didn’t know who these beings were. This makes Julie’s account sound unauthentic, as though she is using Joseph’s words instead of her own to identify the Personages.

72. Emma Smith as an “elect lady“ (p. 84). “Elect” is not a word that is used much in modern vernacular. Remarkable, amazing, wonderful, special, and maybe even choice, are used much more frequently in today’s society than “elect” – as is woman instead of “lady.” Yet this unusual phrase Julie uses is also specifically used in scripture to describe Emma (D&C 25:3). This is likely another phrase “borrowed” from the scriptures.

73. Iran, Libya, Israel. Another section of Julie’s book that reminded me of Sarah Menet’s description of events from her NDE is the missile fired at Israel. Again, I looked up Sarah’s account to verify:

Julie Rowe
“(1)I also saw that Iran (2)launched a missile from Libya, (3)targeting Israel. (4)Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and several other nations in that area of the world were at odds and the entire region was in complete chaos and turmoil.” (A Greater Tomorrow, p. 125)

Sarah Menet
(1)Looking at the Middle East, I watched as a (2)missile flew from Libya (3)and hit Israel. The mushroom cloud that resulted from the blast was visible, and I knew that the missile contained a nuclear bomb. (1)I was aware that those responsible for the missile were Iranian, (2)but the missile had been hidden and fired from within the borders of Libya. (4)Almost immediately other missiles began flying from one country to another, quickly spreading war around the world. (There Is No Death, p. 62)

I don’t know whether there is enough evidence to conclusively say that it is or isn’t plagiarized. They are different enough that they could both be describing the same event from different perspectives… The only reason why I strongly suspect plagiarism is that Julie has already thus shown a history of doing just that.

74. Plague. Sarah Menet and Julie Rowe both see a biological attack upon the United States. So uncanny are their similarities that again I had to look to see if they are not in fact one and the same:

Julie Rowe
“(1)I saw a man (2)enter a large city in the eastern United States, (3)go into the center of a busy downtown business area (4)and dump the contents of a large vial-shaped container (3)into the middle of the busy town square. (5)It was about the size of a half-gallon of milk (6)and the substance he dumped was a liquid that was somewhat transparent with a slight whitish hew to it.(7)It was extremely dangerous and contagious. (8)The people who were around him in the city square were totally oblivious to what he had done. No one was even paying any attention to him. (9)After the contents of the container were emptied, he quickly and discreetly left, blending into the crowd undetected. (10)This biological weapon was a disease that started with terrible white blisters, (11)of varying sizes, (12)that developed into pus-filled sores. (11)Some of the blisters were quite large, (13)and they appeared on the hands, faces, arms and necks of those who had contacted the disease. (14)The disease caused confusion, dizziness, and complete disorientation for those infected. The victims often could not remember where they were, who they were, or where they lived. They essentially went crazy. They would come in and out of consciousness, unable to speak, walk or listen and understand coherently. (2)This plague started in the eastern states, (15)but quickly swept across the country and spread quickly throughout North and South America” (A Greater Tomorrow, p. 131)

Sarah Menet
“(1)I then saw a man (3)walk into the middle of a crowd of people (4)and drop what seemed like a (5)quart jar (6)full of liquid. The jar broke and the liquid spread. (7)I understood that people nearby had become infected with a disease from the liquid, (8)and they didn’t even know it. (7)A day or two later people became sick and started dying. (2)I saw that this would happen in four particular cities: New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Salt Lake City. (10)The disease started with white blisters, (11)some of the size of a dime, (13)appearing on the hands, arms, and faces of the victims. (12)The blisters quickly developed into white sores, apparently filled with pus. (14)Those with the disease would stumble around for weeks and fall over dead.” (There Is No Death, p. 64)

It is obvious that Julie and Sarah are describing the same incident and plague. Most all of the points are the same, many of the same (or similar) words are used to describe things. Yet there are some significant discrepancies as well: 1) Julie describes the plague originating from only one event/city in the eastern states and then spreading therefrom, whereas Sarah says this same thing happens in four major cities across the country (only one of which is in the east) and then spreads from there. 2) Sarah says that the disease is contained in a quart jar (presumably glass) and that the jar itself is dropped and breaks, spilling the contents, whereas Julie says that it’s in a vial-shaped container, about the size of a half-gallon (2 quarts), and that it is poured out. 3) Julie also adds some additional details about the man who started the disease and also the effects of the disease on the people, which Sarah never mentions.

Studying this account by itself does not provide enough evidence to declare it plagiarism. There are significant enough changes/additions that one might believe that Julie also saw this as she claims and didn’t borrow anything from Sarah.

However, if they both saw this event/disease then why is there some major discrepancies – most notably that Julie sees it starting only in one major city somewhere in the east and spreading from there to the rest of the country, whereas Sarah sees it starting in four major cities (only one of which is back east) and spreading from there? Personally I am more inclined to believe that this is another plagiarism by Julie and that she went to great measure to embellish her account so that it wouldn’t appear identical to Sarah’s – the reasons for this is:
  • The structure appears mostly the same – i.e. most all the points are the same and in the same order from one account to the other.
  • Many of the words and descriptions are the same or similar.
  • The many other previous examples of outright or questionable plagiarism by Julie.
  • There is evidence that Julie knew of Sarah Menet and likely had access to and read her book prior to writing her own, contrary to what Julie claims. Update: in one thread "fellowdreamer" (Julie Rowe) says she was given Sarah's book as a Christmas gift in 2006 and has read it

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

E. Missing or vague information

Quite frequently in Julie’s book important story elements seem to be missing or vague, which makes her story appear rather disjointed to the reader. In affect her book almost seems more like a collage where she is cutting out bits and pieces from other sources in order to put together her own picture. As you will see most often these missing bits of information are found in the scriptural stories she witnesses. If you read the scriptural account of these same events you will see that the scriptures also refer to this information, but in the case of the scriptures that information is there. This may be more evidence of plagiarism. Like a collage it seems as if Julie is just cutting and pasting scripture stories into her own story but failing to make sure she is including all of the material that the scriptures refer to. I wouldn’t consider any of this as hard evidence of wrong-doing, but it is circumstantial and adds to the overall picture.

75. Julie’s description of how long the flood lasts is a bit confusing and vague, even after careful study of her account (p. 36-37). “The rain lasted 40 days, but long after the rain stopped, the earth was still covered with water.” A bit vague on how long the waters covered the earth… But she does get more specific a bit later, “It was several months before Noah… released a dove.” So at this point, I as the reader, understand it rained 40 days, then took several months from the rain stopping until the waters receded sufficiently for Noah to send forth the dove to see if the ground was dry enough. So far I think I’m following. And then she again goes back to talking about the rain (that lasted 40 days) saying “after the rain stopped, it still took several days for the water to subside.” So, wait… it went from “several months” for the water to recede to “several days”? Am I missing something? Maybe it was a mistype? Julie then goes on to say “Even once the water was gone, they had to wait quite a long time before the ground had dried enough [to leave the Ark].” So now I know with (un)certainty just how long this whole episode lasted… it rained 40 days, then the waters covered the earth for several (3? 4? 7? 10? 20?) months, and then it took quite a long time (15 days? 1 month? 6 months? 1 year?) from when the waters receded until the ground was sufficiently dry to leave the Ark. Glad that’s cleared up.

Now let’s compare this with the Bible account. Granted, the Bible account seems pretty confusing too – but it is actually very specific about dates and through careful study we can come to a clear understanding of time frames: it rained/flooded 40 days (Gen 7:11,17), the waters completely cover the earth 150 days or 5 months (Gen. 7:11,24; 8:3-4 – this timeframe includes the 40 days it rained), It takes another 3 months for the waters to recede sufficiently for Noah to send out the dove (Gen. 8:5-11), and another 3 months for the waters to be completely gone (Gen 7:11; 8:13), and finally another 1 month for the ground to be completely dry (Gen. 8:13-14). All told the whole event, from entering the ark to leaving the ark, lasts just over a year (Gen 7:11; 8:14).

Now, after we have a clear understanding of time frames according to the Bible, going back and analyzing Julie’s account makes even less sense. Especially the “once the water was gone, they had to wait quite a long time before the ground had dried enough [to leave the Ark]” reference. Comparatively speaking, 1 month is not “quite a long time” as opposed to the 11 month ordeal they had just gone through.

My personal belief is that Julie did not see these things happening in a NDE as she claims, but instead has attempted to include scriptural accounts into her account so as to make her claimed NDE seem authentic. If she saw these things as she says then why would she include one very specific timeframe (40 days) but only mention the others with ambiguity? In this case she may have been confused by all the details on timeframes in the Biblical account and therefore only included vague references to dates (“long after,” “several months,” “quite a long time,” and “several days”) excepting the 40 days of rain reference which was clearly established in the Bible.

76. Jaredites travel on the water “many days” (p. 38). This is another vague reference to time. While this may indeed be technically correct (the scriptures specify 344 days – Ether 6:11) it is a very broad and vague reference by Julie. Just how many days is “many days?” 10? 30? To me many days would imply several (10-20ish?) days, but not so many as to warrant using a more accurate term such as months or years. I realize this may sound like I’m nitpicking Julie’s words – and perhaps I am – but it seems such an odd term to use when something like “about a year” would be more accurate and helpful to the reader in understanding just how long their journey lasted. I don’t know, “many days” just seems like such an odd phrase that isn’t commonly used in our culture and society to reference a timeframe of nearly a year – it seems incongruent, almost as if she is borrowing that phrase from another source… She may have missed the reference to how long their voyage was, and therefore used the catch-all “many days.”

77. Joseph and the Ishmaelites. One indicator that Julie is using the scriptures as a source to write her account, instead of actually using her own words from her own purported experience, is the phrase that Potiphar “bought him from the Ishmaelites” (p. 40). Prior to this point in her book Julie makes no mention whatever of Ishmaelites, let alone how they came to be in possession of Joseph. Yet she states that Potiphar bought Joseph from them as if it were a matter of fact that had already been established to the reader. Apparently she failed to recognize she was missing this critical piece of information. This missing information may be unnoticeable for someone who may be familiar with the scripture stories because their mind will fill in the missing blanks subconsciously, and consciously they will not even realize it was missing. However, for the observant reader or someone who isn’t familiar with the scriptural story these missing bits and pieces raise questions – How did Joseph become a slave? How did he come to be sold into Egypt? Who are these Ishmaelites? And how did they come into possession of Joseph? These questions are all answered in the Bible account, but not Julie’s.

78. “Many years later,” after the events of Joseph in Egypt, Passover happens (p. 43). How many is “many?” 5? 25? 50? 100? Another broad and vague reference to time by Julie. A study of the scriptures reveals that it was actually 430 years (Exodus 12:40-41).

79. Passover, part 4. No mention by Julie of any of the important or major events and plagues leading up to the Passover. Instead we find ourselves jumping right into the middle of things beginning with the final plague that is to affect the Egyptians. This again leaves Julie’s book and account feeling very disjointed and hard for the reader to follow, as if she’s arbitrarily picking and choosing what scriptures and events to cover instead of what would make sense naturally if she were describing her NDE (unless for some strange reason she herself was plopped right into the middle of witnessing Passover instead of seeing the events leading up to it as well).

80. Passover, part 5. “It wasn’t just babies or small children who died, but older men as well” (p. 43).

It was far more than this either – it included all animals too (Exodus 11:5; 12:12, 29)! I guess she must have missed that part…

81. Temples – speaking of Solomon’s temple Julie says that it was destroyed and then in the last paragraph on this page says “Decades later the temple was rebuilt and rededicated. Hundreds of years later, Herod I, King of Judea, commanded the people to reconstruct the temple” (p. 46).

So in one sentence the temple has been rebuilt, and then in the very next sentence the temple has to be reconstructed again? What happened in between? Presumably it must have been destroyed again – but how and why? This is yet another example of Julie’s story being disjointed and not making sense to the reader – as if she’s taking bits and pieces from other sources (such as the scriptures) and splicing them together to tell her own story.

82. Da..d a.d Goli…? So, whatever happened to Goliath…? Here’s another example of important information missing. Julie starts telling us the story of David and Goliath and then, just as David goes out to meet Goliath in open battle, she gets distracted in her narrative and never finishes telling the reader what the outcome of the battle was (p. 48-49). Again, for someone familiar with the story they can automatically and subconsciously fill in the blanks with the rest of the story, but for the uninformed reader this simply doesn’t make sense. I suspect Julie must have gotten carried away in embellishing her story and/or applying it to our own lives that she just simply forgot to finish the story.

83. Another bit of missing information comes when Julie says that Eliab, David’s brother, scolded him “for leaving the sheep he was herding.” Nowhere prior to (or after) this statement are we ever informed by Julie that David is a sheepherder, caring for any sheep, or that he even left them anywhere. Yet this information is found in the scriptural account (vs. 15,20), again indicative that Julie is taking her account directly from the scriptures but forgetting to include vital bits of information in her account which she herself (borrowing from the scriptures) makes reference to.

84. Visits with Moroni, part 3. Julie says “I later saw Joseph walk a great distance to the Hill Cumorah to the exact location he had been shown” (p. 82).

How far is a “great distance?” 100 miles? 500? Julie never tells us, but looking at Church history maps (see Map 2 after the D&C) it only appears to be about 3 miles. 3 miles is a very short hike and would take about an hour for the average person. I wouldn’t consider 3 miles a “great distance” by any stretch of the imagination.

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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

F. Energy Healing

What is energy healing? I confess that I don’t know much of anything about energy healing or how it is supposed to work. Here are some other words, phrases, and terms that appear to be associated with the practice and subject of energy healing (as taken from a thread on ldsavow.com): “energy work,” “muscle testing,” “kinesiology,” “emotion code,” “body code,” “Reiki,” “chakra,” “aura,” “soul retrieval,” healing and sending “lost spirits into the light,” removing of “spiritual parasites” through energy healing, “placing” of spirits and/or “shields of light” around others “for their protection” with or without their consent and/or knowledge, and probably more.

I know of no official Church policy or stand on energy healing, either for or against. But I do know the feelings of the spirit that I have received have always been one of strong caution and unease. There are plenty of other methods of healing (spiritual, physical, and emotional) which are explicitly approved by the Lord, both in scripture and from the words of prophets and apostles – such as Priesthood blessings, faith and prayers, herbs and wholesome foods, qualified and competent medical professionals, and other good health practices. So why turn to another source which is questionable?

I have talked with both my Bishop and Stake President about energy healing and they too have echoed my feelings on the matter. My Bishop essentially said that since there is no revelation on it from the Church then it would likely fall under personal revelation, but that personal revelation should not be shared publicly with others outside of our stewardship (as Julie is doing) otherwise it goes against the proper order of the Church. My Stake President has essentially said that though there is no official word on energy healing from the Church that it seems to go against the spirit and what revelations we have received in regards to healing.

In the Church handbook of Instructions, under the subject heading 21.3 Medical and Health Policies is found these guidelines which may be applicable in the case of energy healing:
21.3.9 Self-Awareness Groups
Many private groups and commercial organizations have programs that purport to increase self-awareness, self-esteem, and spirituality. Some groups promise to enhance individual agency or improve family relationships. Some offer ‘experiential’ or ‘empowerment’ training.

Some of these groups falsely claim or imply that the Church or individual General Authorities have endorsed their programs. However, the Church has not endorsed any such enterprise, and members are warned against believing such claims. The fact that the Church has not formally challenged such an enterprise should not be perceived as tacit endorsement or approval.

Church members are also warned that some of these groups advocate concepts and use methods that can be harmful. In addition, many such groups charge exorbitant fees and encourage long-term commitments. Some intermingle worldly concepts with gospel principles in ways that can undermine spirituality and faith.

These groups tend to promise quick solutions to problems that normally require time and personal effort to resolve. Although participants may experience temporary emotional relief or exhilaration, old problems often return, leading to added disappointment and despair.

Church leaders are not to pay for, encourage participation in, or promote such groups or practices. Also, Church facilities may not be used for these activities.

Leaders should counsel members that true self-improvement comes through living gospel principles. Members who have social or emotional problems may consult with priesthood leaders for guidance in identifying sources of help that are in harmony with gospel principles.
Though Julie never comes out directly in A Greater Tomorrow teaching about “Energy Healing” there are numerous allusions to the practice and/or teachings. Essentially she seems to be subtly planting the seed in order to later nourish it into full maturity. Julie seems to be preparing for some future time where she will more actively support and promote it (if she’s not already doing it at firesides and other private/public speaking engagements). Here are a number of references, both in this book, and elsewhere (namely on AVOW) that suggest that teaching/practicing “Energy Healing” is a (major?) part of her goals and objectives:

85. Energy Healing as possible motive in writing the book. “Had it not been for my in-laws, and many other family members, I would not have been able to accomplish what I needed to do to improve my health, take care of my family, and achieve those things the Lord has asked me to do” (p. viii). “First and foremost, mine is a message of love, hope, faith, and healing.” The next paragraph, “I refer to this time in my life as the beginning of my health journey and the beginning of my calling” (p. x). “I felt the very real healing power that comes from having and being surrounded by the pure love of Christ. … I felt the healing power that came with all of what I was experiencing, and I wanted it to last forever” (p. 13-14). “She works as a Certified Emotion Code Practitioner” (p. 165, “About The Author”)

The bold parts in the above passages, and especially what is found on pages 19-20 of Julie’s book (which is too lengthy to include here), and many other snippets throughout her book, while innocent in and of themselves, taken together they seem to be a subtle allusion to “energy healing” and suggests that Julie’s “mission” (hidden agenda?) is to promote it. This is purely speculation on my part, and based in part on the whisperings of the spirit that “energy healing” is part of her life, work, and agenda.

86. Food preparation and eating, part 4. When preparing food Julie asks the ladies why they are preparing food as they didn’t have physical bodies. Their reply is “that although the food was not required to sustain their bodies on a physical level, the items being prepared had special energetic qualities about them and had been requested by those for whom they were preparing it” (p. 25). It seems very apparent to me now that this passage is intended to plant a seed and pave the way for future teachings about energy healing, as she says that particular foods have different “special energetic qualities about them.” This combined with her apparent dislike of meat-eaters suggests dietary considerations and connections with energy healing.

87. With the publication of her second book, The Time is Now, I have been informed that Julie Rowe has indeed included specific things about energy healing therein. I have not read this second book so I don’t know what is said or the extent of the subject covered, but I find it of interest that what I have felt as promptings and warnings of the Holy Ghost seem to be validated and that supporting/promoting/teaching energy healing appears to be a (primary?) part of Julie’s message and mission in writing these books.

88. Julie Rowe’s first post (under the username of “fellowdreamer”) on ldsavow.com about her supposed NDE is also about “Energy Healing.” There is a definite correlation there. She has frequently and very vocally defended the practice of energy healing and has gone toe to toe with people who have expressed concerns about it.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

G. Duplicitous Deception

How and why Julie’s deceptions work. Throughout her book Julie uses a number of techniques that, I believe, are calculated and intended to add credibility to her account, to sound true and authentic, and to discourage or dismiss any doubts or questioning. This is done, again in my estimation, to conceal the fact that she is inserting false doctrines and questionable materials into her book in an attempt to deceive others. Such techniques include:

89. Invoking the name of God, truth, etc. Throughout the book Julie is constantly invoking the name of God, truth, etc. to help validate and/or lend credibility that what she has written is true. Here are a few (of the far too many to include) examples of such words and phrases Julie uses throughout her book: “Father in Heaven who has given me the blessing and opportunity to share this message. I am so grateful for the knowledge He has given me and… that I can bear witness of His great Plan of Happiness and of the truths I have been taught.” (p. vii), “The Lord, in his goodness, made it possible for this message to be written… He [Chad Daybell] has diligently worked to ensure that the message in this book is accurate, clear, and authentic. I am grateful for his guidance and his willingness to follow the spirit as we have worked together on this project.” (p. viii), “I need to tell my story. It is part of the plan… I know what I know and I cannot deny this knowledge.” (p. ix), “I just hope and pray I can… give the reader a clear vision and understanding of what can only be explained as miraculous manifestations from Heaven.” (p. ix), “I pray that those who read these words will find what they are looking for” (p. ix)

Contrary to what Julie insinuates that everything in her book is a manifestation of the divine and true, there is another possible explanation, and it comes from the counterfeit sources… Even the early Church leaders acknowledged that the restoration of the Gospel and Church of Jesus Christ, and all that pertained to it, was either completely true, or, the worst of deceptions. They have constantly urged people to study these things out for themselves and pray to God, the source of all truth, if these things are true. We would do well to apply the same thing to Julie’s book instead of taking it at face value that it is of God.

Julie’s words, either intentional or not, seem calculated to add credibility to her account and simultaneously dismiss any further investigation. This tactic, using words and phrases that seem to lend a certain air of genuine authority and authenticity to her account, is used throughout her book. For the casual reader it may stir emotions or inspire greater trust in her words, but speaking for myself it comes across as duplicitous and something of a mockery of God, truth, scriptures, and the restored gospel. Such words and phrases surely do sound wonderful and uplifting, seeming to bear testimony of God and truths she has learned. If her experience is indeed true then these statements seem to be a wonderful reflection of her faith, testimony, and sure witness. However, if her experience and words are false (and the evidence is strong that this is the case) then she is ascribing to God that which comes from the master deceiver – she is invoking the name of God to bear witness to the reader that what she has written is true, when in fact it is not. Such a false act is taking the name of God in vain and God will not be mocked.

You have the scriptures, you have the words of the prophets, and you have the gift of the Holy Ghost to bear witness and testify of truths. Study Julie’s words out and discern for yourself if they are true or not. I have, and this work is in part the fruits of my labors in so doing.

90. Using well established truths to back her words. Very similar to the above point, Julie frequently says something that is most definitely true in order to set a precedent that everything else she is saying is true, when in fact it may not be. Here are just some of the (again there’s simply far too many to include) examples found throughout her book: “I pray that those who read these words will find what they are looking for, ... and that they will feel the love our Heavenly Father has for them. He is real. He loves us. He knows us. He wants us to be happy, and He wants us to come home to Him.” (p. ix, x) These truths, which I and others can readily testify of, establish and set a precedent that what she is saying is true – and the Holy Ghost will likely bear testimony of these truths. This disarms the reader from staying vigilant and as a result they may not even realize that Julie is slipping in falsehoods into her account. The reader, then having felt the Holy Ghost bear witness of certain truths, may mistakenly ascribe those feelings as applying to the book as a whole rather than to specific truths.

91. Julie appears as a righteous God-fearing person. Again, similar to the above points, Julie is constantly casting herself in a favorable light as an honest, righteous, and God-fearing woman. She regularly expresses her faith and bears testimony of things she believes to be true. This, like the above points, has the effect of establishing credibility and dismissing any doubts about her account. The problem is there are lots of things in her book that raises doubts and questions about the authenticity of her account, which in turn raises doubts and suspicions concerning her moral character and motives as well.

92. Using scripture. Throughout her book Julie often plagiarizes scriptures, nearly word for word, point by point, punctuation for punctuation, and passes it off as her own words and account. Of course because what she is using is scripture and truth then it rings true to the reader. However, Julie is very clearly plagiarizing the scriptures and passing it off as her own account – this in and of itself should raise some very serious questions and concerns as to the authenticity of the rest of Julie’s account. How much of her book and supposed experience is actually her own and not stolen from other sources? How much of what she has written is true? Did she actually have a near-death experience, or is she lying about that too?

93. Near Death Experience. Julie claims that her experience comes directly from the divine. Indeed, a NDE would most certainly be difficult, if not impossible, to disprove – and to question the validity of a very personal and sacred experience of someone else is in itself almost taboo in our culture and society. Dreams on the other hand can be more easily dismissed or questioned (though they too hold a certain element of being personal and sacred, just not in the same league as a NDE would).

How interesting it is then that Julie Rowe, many years ago (in 2008, so after her supposed NDE in 2004) created an account on ldsavow.com (an online community and forum for discussing last days events, preparedness, and dreams and visions among other things) under the username “Julie Rowe,” and began posting on this site her many “dreams” – never once was a near-death experience ever mentioned, it was only ever dreams that she had. And then, a few years later (in 2012), she inexplicably created a new account under the name “fellowdreamer” instead of using her old account and suddenly starts talking about having had a NDE and not only dreams. Her claimed reason for this is that she was told she needed to wait about 9 years before she shared her NDE story.

94. Seeing things in dream/vision before they happen… after the fact. Julie often describes how she has seen certain things happen before they do, but it’s almost always shared after the fact. For example, when I went to a book signing of hers in Springville – I got there too late to hear her speak, but in time for the book signing. As a friend and I stood waiting in line a lady in front of us who was there the whole time started giving me information about what Julie talked on and her impressions of Julie. One of the things that this lady said she was impressed with was that Julie got up and said that she had seen (in dream/vision?) this very event and how everything would be set up and that there were a large group of people standing in the very back, and how that such was now the very way she had seen it. Again this is an example of Julie saying she saw something and how it was fulfilled precisely how she saw it… but it seems like it’s always after the fact when she announces/reveals it.

Yet another example, this time from her recent radio interview with Mills Crenshaw, came when Julie said she had seen (apparently in her NDE from 2004) the events surrounding Fukushima and the disaster that has been. If this is true then why did Julie not forewarn people about this tragedy and try and save lives by doing so? Instead she just claims, again after the fact in this 2014 radio interview, that she saw it happen beforehand. This builds a false confidence in her words that the things she supposedly sees or has seen will very literally be fulfilled.

More examples:
  • “I did have dreams of Mit Romney running for president starting in 2004.” (posted by Julie on ldsavow.com, September 24, 2009 – after the 2008 presidential elections when Romney was running)
  • In a document compiled by “ramsrn,” from ldsavow.com, they have detailed and pointed out many other such examples, which I would refer you to. You can find their document at this link: http://www.docdroid.net/negu/red-flags.odt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There are a number of things in her book that speak of yet future events happening – only time will tell if they come true before the fact. But even still, while these yet-future things she claims to have seen (whether in her NDE or in dreams/visions) may in fact come true is it because she witnessed them herself and they are true, or because she’s using other people’s dreams/visions/prophecies as a basis for her own (as is mentioned in the above point on scriptures and also described in the point below on using other’s accounts of NDE’s/dreams/visions)?

95. Not to read other accounts of NDE’s. Julie is told not to read other people’s accounts of NDE’s until after she wrote and published her account so as not to taint her own experience, or so that their descriptions of things and events don’t influence her own. This is so that people will know that her account truly is her own. This is another thing that is calculated to inspire confidence in her account and pre-emptively dismiss any doubts or questions that she is using or influenced by other people’s NDE’s, dreams, or visions.

The problem is, there is no way to verify that she followed this counsel – we must take her at her word that she didn’t read or use other people’s accounts to write her own. It seems apparent and reasonable that she has in fact read other people’s accounts because as “Julie Rowe” on AVOW (before she began writing her book) she mentioned being given Roger K. Young’s book on Dreams and Visions to read, and she also specifically mentions Sarah Menet by name – she was therefore at least familiar and acquainted with some of these things and, quite likely, had in fact read them prior to ever writing her book. Some of her descriptions of events actually closely mirror (if not perfectly match) events described by Sarah in her book, begging the question if Julie did in fact “borrow” things from Sarah. This also begs the question if she has also “borrowed” things from other sources as well. For example, over the years many people have posted their (and other people’s) dreams and visions on AVOW – something Julie would have readily had access to while on AVOW from 2008-2011 prior to writing her book.

96. “It was made very clear to me.” By now, at least to me, it has become quite noticeable that this seems to be one of Julie’s favorite phrases. She uses it (or similar words, such as “I saw,” “I witnessed,” “I watched,” “I was shown,” “I learned,” etc.) all the time throughout her book. I went back and looked for this exact phrase up to page 47 and counted it at least 16 times, with similar phrases (which I didn’t count) increasing that number significantly. What does this show? That I’m OCD or maybe ADD… :P No, seriously though, to me it shows that Julie is convinced that her experience is real and that she really did see these things, or, quite possibly, that she is trying to convince others that her story is real and that she really did see these things. Genuine account, or duplicitous deception? For me, well… to borrow a phrase from Julie, “it was made very clear to me.”

97. Choose ye this day. “John talked once more about the Plan of Happiness, and how important it is that we make good choices. He urged me to think about the choices I had made, and those I would yet make, and to remember that our choices affect others. He reminded me that the choices we make every day either lead us toward or away from the light, and that depending on what choices we make, we are either on the Lord’s side (the Winning team), or on Satan’s side. There really is no middle ground. Either we choose to support God’s Plan of Happiness, or we choose to fight against it” (p. 67).

This is sound advice that is backed up by the words of the prophets – most recently by Elder Dallin H. Oaks in this last General Conference: “The gospel of Jesus Christ and the covenants we have made inevitably cast us as combatants in the eternal contest between truth and error. There is no middle ground in that contest.” Perhaps Julie should carefully and prayerfully consider these words and where she stands in this “eternal contest between truth and error.” This is a good example of where Julie says something that is very true and good (see points 88, 89, 90, 97), but her other words and works enumerated in this document contradict her statement.

98. Good is evil and evil is good. Julie says that “Satan is real and has many hosts of heaven that were cast out with him and who help him. I was shown that there are many different spirits who have been and would continue to try to confuse and misguide me. Their goal is to interfere in God’s plan for us and to destroy us” (p. 67).

Apparently Julie doesn’t realize just how true these words and warning are, or, perhaps she just failed to take them to heart… It almost seems like her strategy here is to preemptively attack any opposition by asserting that anyone/anything that opposes her work and mission is evil and from the adversary. Anyone who honestly and sincerely questions her account is therefore working for satan and trying to misguide, confuse, distract, or attack her. Such an implied statement sure causes one to pause and wonder if questioning her account is indeed bad. Obviously this is not the case though and it is good to ask questions and seek after truth.

99. Multiplicity of witnesses. The scriptures often teach that in the mouth of two or more witnesses is every word (or truth) established. Calling upon multiple witnesses to establish her account as true seems to be a strategy that Julie uses most often in association with her “dreams” (see the section on Julie’s dreams), such that she will describe having had multiple (sometimes dozens of) recurring dreams about the same exact things. Though never directly said, it can be implied or inferred that all of these witnesses (dreams) testify of each other and that what she is saying is therefore true.
Last edited by Onsdag on December 23rd, 2014, 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

H. Julie’s online life, persona, and inconsistencies.

There are a number of inconsistencies and red flags in regards to Julie’s online life, persona, and words. I would highly encourage an examination of “ramsrn”’s documentation and findings as this person has done some great research in finding inconsistencies and an element of deception on the part of Julie Rowe. Still, I will examine a few things that I have uncovered which warrant concern:

100. Change of names. I mentioned this already in the introduction, but for the sake of completeness I include it here as well. On January 25, 2008, Julie Rowe joined ldsavow.com and created an account under the username of “Julie Rowe.” Over the next few years she posted a total of 40 posts, almost all of them dealing with dreams she has (or claims to have) had, and never once having mentioned anything about a NDE. The last time “Julie Rowe” logged onto AVOW (as of this writing) was March 10th, 2011. The following year, on August 14th, 2012, Julie Rowe, for whatever reason, created a new account on ldsavow under the username of “fellowdreamer.”

Why create a new account instead of using her old one? There are a few possible reasons, including lost or forgotten password/username (unlikely considering there are recovery options), or wanting to use a different username. Though there are innocent reasons for wanting a new username this can easily be done by contacting Christopher and having him change your name without having to create a new account. However, a more likely reason for changing your username is to hide your identity, and it seems like this is what Julie wanted to do as there is an indication from Julie herself for this very thing. This revelation comes from a thread wherein she posted both as “Julie Rowe” and then years later under the new name of “fellowdreamer.” In this thread, under the username of “fellowdreamer,” she said ”I would rather keep my personal identity out of the picture, but too late for that” (emphasis added). It seems that for whatever reason (perhaps because under the name “Julie Rowe” she had only ever posted her experiences as “dreams” and not a NDE?) she didn’t want people to know that she (“fellowdreamer”) was “Julie Rowe.” This brings us to the next point…

101. In one very interesting (and revealing) thread on ldsavow.com “Julie Rowe,” in September 2009, posted a number of times about many different “dreams” she has had. Remember that as “Julie Rowe” Julie never once indicated that she had had a NDE, but on the other hand had openly spoken of dozens if not hundreds of “dreams” she has had. See the next section for an analysis of these posts and “dreams” and note just how many of these “dreams” in this thread correlate with her supposed Near Death Experience as found in “A Greater Tomorrow.” By my calculations about 75-80% of these “dreams” are found in her book as part of her purported NDE – word for word in many cases.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

I. Julie’s “dreams” posted on AVOW.

The following are several posts that Julie Rowe has made on AVOW under the username of “Julie Rowe” in a thread she created. I have compared many of these “dreams” Julie posted and claims to have had and found that about 75-80% of them are actually found in her book “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE. In my notes I have included a portion of her account as found in her book/NDE so that you can compare it with the “dream.” The bolded text, if in Julie’s posts are original and what she herself highlighted, or, if in my comparison of her account as found in her book are my highlights to show the same exact words as found in her dreams. Red text is my highlights from Julie’s words, and blue text is my comments/opinions (Edit: ignore the formatting key as I have not yet been able to encode these posts correctly to reflect the highlights). Also note that I haven’t yet typed out all of the full text of the corresponding accounts in her book to compare them with the dreams as it is very time consuming and tedious – but I have at least provided page references so you can look it up and compare them yourself.

Selected posts from Julie Rowe taken from the following thread (Note that I have only included Julie’s posts, and only the ones I felt were significant, so it may read a lot like a one sided conversation. If you want to read all of the posts and comments from others please visit the thread):
https://www.ldsavow.com/forum/showthread.php?t=130187" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 21st, 2009
Dreams of Adam-Ondi-Ahman, camps, last days
After being a silent member of Avow for more than a year and a half, some of you may have seen that I have posted a few lengthy comments on a few threads now. Up until now, I have merely read various threads of interest to me, looking particularly for dreams/visions similar to those I have had over the past several years.

(Note: she has read numerous (probably all that were available and posted up until this time) posts about other people’s dreams and visions about the last days, especially ones that were apparently similar to her own dreams. I mention this because her dreams may be her own, or there might be the possibility that she has “borrowed” other people’s dreams/visions and made them her own. I hate to speculate that such might be a possibility, but Julie has already lost much credibility by saying that her NDE is true when in fact there is strong evidence of plagiarism and that her account is false. What else has she fabricated or plagiarized? I will give her the benefit of the doubt though and assume that all of these “dreams” are in fact dreams she had)

A little back ground on me first. I had my first, what I call "Second Coming" Dream, my junior year of high school. I am almost 37 and have continued to have dreams over the years, sometimes only four or five a year, other times dozens a month. I dream your usual silly dreams too, or wierd dreams, but don't usually remember details and can not remember them at all after about an hour or so from waking up. Whenever I am awakened in the middle of the night, and for some reason, I often wake up right around 5 am. with significant dreams, they are usually of some spiritual significance, and/or "deeper/thought provoking or warning type dreams." Not to say I don't have dreams at other times that I remember, but I have had so many times that I dream something really intense and the details stay with me. These are vivid, detailed dreams.

(Note: It seems to me like she is saying that her dreams fall into two categories, and how she distinguishes between them is:
Silly/Weird Dreams
Significant Dreams
Usually can’t remember any specific details about the dream(s).
Quickly forgets about the dream(s) shortly after waking up.
Probably contains silly or weird elements.
Wakes up in the middle of the night, often around 5 am.
Usually contains spiritual or thought provoking themes or elements.
Sometimes warnings are associated with the dream(s).
Vivid, intense, and detailed dreams.
Clearly remembers the dreams, even long after having woken up.
Is it possible that there is some crossover between these dreams? How can she definitely say that each of her dreams will neatly fall into one of these categories and are therefore spiritually significant or just silly? I have personally had many such dreams that are either silly/weird or spiritually significant. There has never been a quick and set standard that I can discern between the two excepting the presence of the Holy Ghost witnessing the difference to me. For example, I have had dreams that were very vivid, detailed, and realistic that I awoke to with a start in the middle of the night wondering if it were in fact real – quite a few I can still remember to this very day – and some of them even had spiritual or thought provoking elements to them, yet I know because of the witness of the Holy Ghost that they were not from God and were either simply just weird/silly dreams, or were somehow influenced by satan. On the same token, I have had spiritually significant dreams that I knew were inspired which have contained weird elements or that I quickly have forgotten about after waking up – and only because I followed a prompting to write it down can I remember that I ever had the dream, let alone any specific details. Of course I’m in no position to say whether or not Julie’s dreams are divine manifestations or not, it just seems to me that her list and criteria are not enough alone to qualify them as one or the other based upon my own experiences.)

Often I see things from an aerial perspective, for example, seeing Adom-ondi-ahman from an airplane view first and then it goes close up as the dream progresses. I had these dreams prior to ever going to Adam-Ondi-Ahman, or ever seeing a picture of it anywhere. I described it in detail to two sisters in my ward, and they took me there (it is only an hour and a half from my house). I live in Johnson County, KS about 30 min from Independence, MO and a neighboring county to Jackson County, MO. Have lived in Kansas 12 1/2 year, but in the Kansas City area for 7.

I have told many of my dreams to my husband over the years (married in temple 13 1/2 years ago in Utah - met at BYU - he is from Kansas so we settled here near his family). My dad was military so I lived overseas and throughout various regions in the U.S growing up, but never in the midwest.

Until about five years ago, I only shared my dreams with my husband and some with my mom and dad. Some of my dreams have come true, not just these second coming dreams, but others about family things. I have gained more understanding and insight into my dreams and perhaps why I have them, but it was not until a few years ago when I confided a few in my relief society president and stake president that I gained confidence regarding this gift. This previous RS president has since become a good friend. She is the person that introduced me to AVOW - and gave me Rogers "Dreams and Visions" book after hearing a few of my dreams and realizing they were very similar to dreams others have had.

(Note: She continues to say that these are dreams she has had. There is never any indication of anything other than dreams. Furthermore, she seems to suggest that she never really knew what the meaning or purpose of her dreams was, and she may have even questioned if they were from God. It seems that it wasn’t until slowly over time as she began sharing her dreams with others, notably her relief society president and stake president, that she began to gain confidence in her dreams and was perhaps even told that her dreams were a gift. Also, as she was introduced to AVOW and read Roger’s book about other people having dreams and visions it may have solidified in her mind that there may be something more to her dreams. These things suggest to me that her account in fact started out as dreams, and not as a NDE. Perhaps, over time, people may have questioned or dismissed her dreams, and in an attempt to make her dreams seem more real or authentic to others she decided to change them from dreams to being a part of a NDE?)

Having said that, hopefully if you read any of my posts, you will have a little more understanding of where I am coming from . Anything I post will be dreams prior to hearing about this site, Roger, Sarah, etc. I say this so that you know I did not have these dreams in response to reading someone else's dreams or experiences. I think that is important so that if someone is reading my posts, they will know they are my own experiences, not because I am dreaming it because someone else dreamed it, because SO MANY details are identical, specifically in terms of invasions from China, Russia, - concentration camps, plagues, famines, tsunamis, earthquakes, fires, "call outs" (even though I don't call what I saw in my dreams call outs), temples, mobs, adam-ondi-ahman, return of the 10 tribes, food storage and prep, droughts, biological warfare, nuclear attacks, war, etc.

(Note: again these are dreams, never mentioning a NDE even though she does make a reference to Sarah Menet which would have been a great time to introduce the thought. Also, the fact that she mentions Sarah by name and says that she has heard of her suggests that Julie is in fact very aware of (and has likely even read of) Sarah’s experience in her book. Note also that even at this early stage she seems to be trying to establish credibility by telling her audience that what she is about to present is independent of and not influenced by anybody else’s works (point #95).)

It is late and I need to get to bed, so I will have to continue posting on another day. I am really not sure where to start, with what dream/dreams....so if any of you have specific questions regarding dreams I have had regarding the subjects listed above, that may help me get started if I know someone has a specific area of interest. I DO NOT want anyone to think these are prophetic. Just please read and view this as interesting and perhaps insightful ---they are very personal and some are sacred to me, so please understand if I do not give all of the details at times or if I feel it is not appropriate for me to share them in a public setting on AVOW. I have had times when I was about to share something with a person and felt constrained by the spirit. Again, I am still unclear as to why I have had some of these dreams. I just know I do and I am trying to sort it out and not feel weighed down ----because seeing the vivid details at times and replaying them in my mind can sometimes be a bit depressing given the devastation that I have seen in some of my dreams. On the other hand, I have also received great comfort from some of my dreams and from going to the temple in prayer in trying to gain peace and insight.

Thank you for your sensitivity and understanding.

(Note: keep in mind that she posted this 5 years after her supposed NDE, which, if she truly did have, would have provided her much, if not all, of the insights she needed to understand her dreams (the majority of her “dreams” outlined in this thread are in fact included as part of her NDE). Instead, she states pretty clearly that she is uncertain of the meanings and purposes of her dreams and has even sought guidance and answer to prayers in the temple as to why she has had these dreams. She also states quite unequivocally that her dreams are not meant to be taken as prophetic (and therefore true or that they will happen) – contrast this with her later saying very publicly that her NDE and everything she learned therein is true and speaking very confidently about these things as though they have and will happen. Also of note is that she started this thread to share several dreams that she had, but has thus only ever made an allusion to them. To me it appears like she was trying to pique everyone’s interest and stir up excitement so that people would ask for more)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 22nd, 2009
Response to your questions about my dreams
Thank you all of you for your positive responses. I have wondered for over a decade as to what I am to learn from these dreams, who I am to share them with and why me. I know many other people have this gift of the spirit, but in my family and my husbands family, only my paternal grandmother is " a dreamer."

It has really helped me to hear from you on this site because I realize that there is nothing strange about this gift, and it should serve as a blessing in my life rather than a curse. About four years ago, I was having so many and they were so intense, many of which were truly heart wrenching and weighty, that I actually asked the Lord to stop them for awhile. I did stop having them for about five months, and tried to sort things out inside. After this "break" from dreaming, I asked the Lord to forgive me and asked for the gift to return. I am happy to say that I still dream, but I have been able to handle it better because I think I have accepted it and am more spiritually prepared to learn the messages the Lord is giving me.

(Note: Yet again we’re only ever told that these things are dreams that she has had throughout her life. She again specifies that she hasn’t always known the meaning of these dreams or why she was having them. In fact she has “wondered for over a decade (at least from 1999-2009) as to what [she was] to learn from these dreams.” Even at this point (in 2009) there seems to be at least some uncertainty on her part about the meaning of the dreams, though she does express that she is better able to handle them and learn more about why the Lord is giving them to her. Again compare her uncertainty of these “dreams” with the certainty of her purported NDE. She also mentions that she has wondered for over a decade “who I am to share them with and why me” – possibly showing a long-term thought and plan that she eventually intended to share these private dreams with others publicly, and perhaps even hints that on some level she feels that it was a mission she was given else why her question of “why me?” It seems at some level that Julie feels these “dreams” she has had throughout her life represent a “message” given to her by God and that she feels was not only meant for her but that God wanted her to share them with the world. Why then were these “dreams” later changed into a NDE? I can only speculate that she felt by having it a NDE it would lend a lot more credibility and authority to her message.)

I am sure some of you will not understand why I would feel the way I did, but I share this experience with you because I know that we all come from different walks of life, varying degrees of understanding of gospel doctrine and principles. As you know, our testimonies of the gospel and everything that pertains to it vary based on our effort to understand, our willingness to learn and head the spirit, and the teaching and experiences we have had and do have in our lives. There is still so much I need to learn about the gospel, but I do have a firm testimony.

In answer to some of you questions, I am happy to share what I can with you. I am actually on a lunch break from work right now, so I do not have time to answer them right this minute, but I will write some more tonight after I put my kids to bed. I just wanted to thank each of you for your encouragement and taking the time to give your input. It means alot to me and I appreciate your willingness to hear more.

(Note: it almost seems like she is fishing for compliments and/or feedback. As you will see by the end of this post she still hasn’t shared any specific dreams, as though trying to get people to ask for more.)

Specifically one area I want to respond to though is Adam-ondi-ahman. Yes, I have had had very specific dreams about that area, the Saviour meeting with the Prophets from Adam through all of the prophets of the various dispensations. I have also had several dreams about various tribes returning, meetings there etc. I think the easiest way for me to describe what I have experienced would be to tell about specific things I saw, versus breaking them down into every specific dream because there have been several over the years. I will attempt to do that tonight.

Thanks everyone! Enjoy your day.

(Note: Again more references to “dreams” she has had. In fact she appears to be starting to formulate a plan on how to better share these “dreams” (which would eventually turn into a NDE), and that in her estimation it would be best if she gave an overview talking about all the different specific things she saw in one setting instead of detailing each dream individually because she has simply had far too many dreams to do that. This fits the format of her book where she shares her experiences as one whole instead of multiple individual ones)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 22nd, 2009
My dreams...answers to your questions.
I appreciate your responses and questions. I will try to explain my dreams the best I can, but honestly I am not the best at writing things down, so forgive me if some things are not explained very well or are not clear (especially in regards to time lines).

(Note: it sounds to me almost as though she is trying to excuse herself from having to provide anything in any great detail just in case people begin to ask questions.)

First of all, let me say that I have never seen dates. The only way I have been able to even sort of estimate a possible time line, if you could call it that, is that in some of my dreams my children looked to be certain ages (in the future), as did other family members like nieces and nephews, and siblings.

(Note: Her words also show quite a bit of uncertainty on her part – she doesn’t know how reliable her own dreams are. These are dreams after all, and dreams aren’t always completely reliable, accurate, or credible.)

Let me answer some of the questions first. About the H1N1 virus. I am a bit worried about it, and think it could end up being worse than it is now, but I don't personally think this is the stuff I saw in my dreams. What I saw was a lot worse. One of the diseases I saw was peoples skin falling off, in reaction to something. I don't know if it was biological warfare or just some pandemic or what, but it was awful. Lots of people and no cure it seemed. People had dark purplish blemishes or some sort with one of the plagues. I saw the spots on peoples faces especially. This was happening while the world was chaotic and things were dangerous worldwide, including the U.S., but they got even worse still after this time frame. It seemed like people were still doing alot of the normal life things in many ways, like shopping, going to school and work - just life was interrupted and it spread rapidly and news reports could not figure out what to do about it.

(Note: notice how many times she uses words and phrases that show uncertainty. Julie really doesn’t seem to know what is going to happen, when it will, if it even will, or what is all entailed. Much of it appears to just be speculation on her part. This would be likely to happen if what she saw was in fact dreams, or something that was made up, instead of an actual NDE.)

About the chips. I have thought quite a bit about this subject too because I have had several dreams about numbers, '"tracking systems" , chips put in hands or foreheads. I have read the book of Revelations probably a hundred times in the past 20 years, but did not have any dreams about this kind of thing until about three years ago one night after going to bed right after I read the my scriptures in the passages talking about the sign of the beast. I can't say if these dreams have been inspired dreams or if they were my own imagination and fears. I first heard about the "fingerprint" tracking/identification that they now have about the same time frame and it does not sit well with me. I am not saying it is bad, I am just saying that I don't like the idea of someone being able to know where I am, who I am and what I am doing at any given time (via satelite now the government can almost watch our every move if they wanted to). So perhaps, these "chips" dreams are just due to my own fears. However, I have had about 10 dreams or so that have this as an element in them and in my own life, I basically feel like I just need to be aware of what is possible and what is out there potentially and not give anyone permission to track me or my family in this manner. I just learned yesterday that in England they have a tracking system in their schools to keep track of the kids. The kids have identification cards with two bar codes - one for the bathroom and one I believe for classes. I am not sure exactly how it operates. Does anyone else know about this system??

I would be curious.

(Note: She clearly acknowledges that these are dreams, and that she really doesn’t know if they are inspired dreams, or influenced simply because of so much reading on her part, her own imagination, or personal fears and uncertainties. At the end she seems to be fishing for more information from others. We still have yet to hear of any dream in any detail. So far they’re all just breadcrumbs tantalizing the reader with the promise of something grand.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 22nd, 2009
My dreams...answers to your questions.
I have just spent the past hour and fifteen minutes posting about my Adam-ondi-ahman dreams in great detail and the system said I needed to sign in again and would not let me submit. Soooo....I am a bit frustrated, but may be I was not supposed to share some of the things I was planning on submitting for you all to read.

I am too tired to write it all again tonight, but in time I will write more. Sorry you guys!

(Note: Finally we get to hear of a dream in great detail… oh, wait, the system ate her work… I guess she wasn’t supposed to share it after all… I probably shouldn’t be so sarcastic, it very well could have happened the way she said, but it just seems like more breadcrumbs and tantalizing promises of information to excite the reader.)

About the call out and time frame and all of that - the quick answer is yes, and no. I hate to speculate and we have been counseled not to do so. But, it is hard not to, and when I put these dreams together there does seem to be a sequence of sorts and rough time frame. I dont know how many of my dreams are symbolic and which ones are always literal. My dreams of Adam-Ondi-Ahman and describing to a friend in detail what it looked like before ever going there and having never seen a picture or map of the area, was one testimony builder to me that I do in fact dream dreams of spiritual significance and that I should take heed and pay attention to my dreams and what they mean. Also, I had dreams of Heber Valley Camp (before I knew anyone else did or knew anything about this site) five years ago and saw it prior to going there for a family reunion four years ago.
The Lord has given me opportunity to learn that some of the things I have seen in my dreams will, I believe, definately come true in the future in some form or another.

(Note: She hates to speculate… but she’s going to anyways. She really doesn’t know which of her dreams are figurative, or whether they are literal. Indications that she has or will be assembling these individual dreams together, much like pieces of a puzzle into one whole (her NDE?). She starts using the “after the fact” strategy to establish future credibility for her dreams. She enumerates several dreams she supposedly had which showed specific things, and then says that later she witnessed those very things in real life. This establishes a pattern for the reader to believe that other of her “dreams” (NDE?) will come true.)

I started dreaming about food storage and emergency prep about 7 years ago and specifically started having dreams about camps about five years ago. At the time my children were a year and half, 3 and a half, and almost 6. In one of my dreams, my oldest son was tall, like six feet tall (he is 11 in a month and about 5 foot 4 inches right now) and looked like he was thirteen or fourteen years old. My second son seemed like he was around 11. My youngest daughter, who will be six in January, looked 8 or 9. She was small enough that in one of my dreams I picked her up out of the car and carried her up the stairs to my moms house because she was asleep (it was late at night when we arrived prior to going to the camps).

Given the ages of my kids, I have thought perhaps 2012 is may be significant, but I don't like to try to predict anything cause I dont feel that was the purpose for my dreams. The message is always to prepare, to get out of debt, to get camp supplies and food storage and make those priorities like the prophet has counseled, but dont panick and freak out and go into debt to get emergency supplies.

(Note: This is the first dream she gives with some specific details. Her children would now be about 16, 13, and 11 years old respectively – about 2 years past the latest date she gave as possible for a call-out. There has been no call-out yet so this means her dream was not fulfilled literally. If this dream was false (at least in a literal sense) then how many of her others are false too?)

Also, They are building a temple in KC area and it will be done in about two and a half years. Makes me wonder, why build a temple now if we are going to be leaving it. BUT - the Lord commanded the saints to build the Kirkland Temple and Nauvoo temple and he knew they would be leaving those areas too. Also, it was essential to the saints spiritual progression and preparedness for the journey for them to be a temple attending people. So I have thought that perhaps that is one of the reasons the Lord has seen fit to bless us with a temple so close now. Just a thought. Any comments or impressions?

(Note: more fishing for information from others?)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 23rd, 2009
Thanks for the advice on posting!
Thank you all for your advice on posting. I have many of my dreams already typed up and on a disk, I just need to remember which file I put them in...it has been over a year since I typed any. If I can locate it soon, which I will try to do, then I could just copy and paste several for you.

Hope everyone is having a great day. Weather is beautiful here today!

(Note: She has been compiling all of her dreams together for a number of years, and perhaps also showing interest or intent in eventually publishing them.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 23rd, 2009
Here is a basic overview of some of my dreams.
Dreams: Julie Rowe
Originally written at various times in my journal, but typed for the first time in the spring of 2007.

Re-typed on Sept. 23, 2009 for the benefit of AVOW members and my family.


Note: I am far from being a scriptorian, but I do try to read at least a chapter a night in the Book of Mormon and have done this consistently since I was in college. I read the bible regularly too, but am more familiar with the modern scripture. I am sure this has impacted my thoughts as I have gone to bed at night and had things in the scriptures on my mind. Most of these dreams did not occur at the same time I was studying a particular section of the bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, although some did. As I have sought answers to prayer in dealing with extended family issues, marriage, raising children, unemployment, meanings of patriarchal blessings (my own and my husbands) my own testimony etc. I have found that the Lord has often answered my prayers through my dreams. Maybe because that is the only time I actually am still enough to listen and pay attention/

(Note: Julie explicitly states that these “dreams” were “originally written at various times in [her] journal” and also later states that most of these dreams have come as a result of various experiences throughout her life. So according to her own testimony they very clearly originated as dreams from throughout her life and not from another source (such as a NDE). This is rather odd because 75-80% of these “dreams” are now found in her book “A Greater Tomorrow” as a part of her NDE… Note also that she again concedes that other sources (such as reading the scriptures) may have influenced her dreams.)

These dreams are listed according to main themes. Many of them are recurrent and/or consecutive. I started having the “Second Coming/Last Days” dreams in 1990 and they have significantly increased over the past five years. My first camp dreams, or places of refuge dreams, started in the Spring of 2004 and my dreams about the last days have really increased in the last seven. This is not all, but it will give you an idea of where I am coming from hopefully.

(Note: Many of her last days and second coming related dreams, including camping and “places of refuge dreams,” took place well before her purported NDE which happened in September/October 2004. These dreams, which are presumably the ones she talks about below, are also found in her book/NDE)

My first “spiritual” dream I ever had was when I was eight. My best friend passed away from cancer that year, and I dreamed of her in the spirit world several times, and also of visiting with her in a beautiful garden where we would meet other people she knew. Later, as an adult, about two years ago, I saw a church video of one of the apostles speaking while he was visiting the Garden of Gethsemene. It was the same garden I had seen in my dreams for over 25 years – the olive trees and a stone wall were what I had seen in my dreams and when the camera panned the area, I instantly recognized the scene. (about once every few years I would have this similar dream while growing up and through my twenties. I had not had the dream for over 8 years when I saw the video).

(Note: She has had dreams of seeing the “spirit world several times.” Perhaps she has seen the “spirit world” in her dreams so much that she would later use her spirit world dreams as material for her purported NDE? There are clearly things in her purported NDE that aren’t in harmony with things as they should be in the real spirit world, but could be explained if in fact they were originally taken from a dream where anything could happen)

I also had an opportunity to meet President Kimball when I was eight, and he passed away when I was nine (He was the Prophet at the time). I dreamed of him many times during my adolescent years, through junior high and high school and still occasionally dream of he and other Prophets in this dispensation who have passed on. (President Kimball made a huge impression on me as a child). I usually see them in the spirit world, preaching the gospel and people surrounding them as they work and teach. These dreams have given me great comfort over the years and have strengthened my testimony, as they have often come at times when I was struggling with something personally.

(Note: Again many of her dreams, including seeing latter-day prophets, and also “spirit world” dreams, occurred throughout her life and well before her purported NDE.)

The dreams below did not necessarily happen in the order in which they are written. I believe I have had most of these dreams to strengthen my own testimony and to bring comfort in times of need. I also believe that in strengthening my own testimony, I have been blessed with a sure knowledge (one of the gifts of the spirit) of very specific gospel principles and doctrine, thereby giving me an opportunity to testify to others and hopefully strengthen their testimonies. I do not know the purpose to all of them, but feel that since some of my dreams have come true already, I may live to see others of them come true. I feel this particularly strong with the Adam-Ondi-Ahman dreams and other dreams about the last days.
I believe that the Lord knows I will pay attention if I see it in a dream, which may be why this is one way I receive personal revelation.

(Note: Julie says that these dreams were meant for her own benefit to help strengthen her own testimony. She also clearly states that she doesn’t know the meaning or purpose of all of her dreams. She posted this in 2009, years after her supposed NDE, so why would she not know the meaning of all of them if most of them are in fact found in her purported NDE where she is constantly expressing things such as “it was made very clear to me…”? And further, if these dreams were meant for her own personal benefit then why are they included in her book as part of her NDE, and why does she express throughout her book that she was commanded and made a promise to share these things? This does not make sense unless Julie never had a NDE as she claims and instead took these “dreams” and used them as a foundation for writing her book. This again suggests ulterior motives on the part of Julie – her apparent contradictions and conflicting statements don’t make sense otherwise.)

Millenial Dreams – temple work, going about life – dreams about family in the millennium. Mulitiple dreams with this theme.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 99-100) and read thusly “… I saw that as time progressed into the future, the need for this [temple] work increased and continued. Much of what we do during the Millennium will be related to family history work, temple work and missionary work.”)

Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendnego – angel in the fire. Testimony that the Lord is aware of us, our persecutions and struggles and that he will protect us. There are angels all around us, we just usually can’t see them.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 50) and reads thusly “I actually saw a fourth person in the flames that I knew was an angel of God. He helped protect them, and they emerged from the furnace unharmed. … This helped assure me that the Lord is aware of us individually, along with our persecutions and struggles. There are angels all around us. We usually just can’t see them.”)

Daniel and the Lions Den –angel – Testimony of ancient prophets and the Lord protecting the righteous.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 50-51) and reads thusly “… He was also assisted by an angel of the Lord. Daniel stood for truth and was protected as the lions were subdued and had no desire to attack him. It strengthened my testimony of the ancient prophets and the Lord protecting the righteous.” Note that virtually everything from this “dream” is used as part of her NDE)

City of Enoch - how righteous the city was and reminder that the Lord blesses us when we obey his commandments.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 33-34) and reads thusly “… The righteous people in this city are a reminder that the Lord blesses us when we obey his commandments, and as the events of the last days transpire, we can receive that same kind of protection through our obedience and faithfulness.”)

Tower of Babel – what absolute chaos for most people. Once again, the Lord way aware of his people on an individual basis and blessed the righteous. Importance of passing on scripture and righteous teachings to our children.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 37-38) and reads thusly “… This event was absolute chaos for most people as they tried to make sense of it. … Once again, the knowledge came to me that the Lord is aware of his people on an individual basis and he blesses the righteous. There is great importance of passing on scriptures and righteous teachings to our children.”)

Passover – destroying angel and the Israelites. How it relates to us today, in the last days, that the destroying angel will come again and the many of the righteous will be protected if they listen to the prophet.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 43-44) and reads thusly “I saw the Destroying Angel pass over the houses of the children of Israel when God smote the firstborn of the Egyptians. … I saw how this relates to us today, because we often fail to do the basics that seem so simple. … There will come a day when the Destroying Angel will come again. Those who choose to obey the commandments will be protected. Those who reject the teachings of the prophets will pay dire consequences for their disobedience.”)

Elijah hitting the water of a little stream with his coat and dividing the water so he and Elisha could walk through on dry land. To show Elisha his priesthood power as they walked through this section of land. Elijah turned over his keys of the priesthood to Elisha as the Prophet. The coat/Robes of the Priesthood signified his mantle. Elijah was taken up in a chariot with fire to heaven. Testimony and greater insight and understanding as to what the robes of the priesthood mean. Importance of obeying temple covenants.

(Note: this “dream” (combined with the “Elijah” one below) makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 49-50) and reads thusly “… I later saw Elijah hitting the water of a stream with his coat and dividing the water so he and Elisha could walk through on dry land. Elijah turned over his priesthood keys to Elisha, and then he was taken up in a chariot with fire to heaven. As he departed, he dropped his coat to the ground, and Elisha picked it up, symbolically indicating that the mantle now rested with the new prophet. It strengthened my testimony of prophets, as well as the importance of obeying temple covenants.”)

KirklandTemple – Elias, Elijah – sealing ordinances restored, same blessings promised to Abraham. I saw this in my dream. Testimony of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery really having these powers restored to them in the Kirkland temple. Testimony of eternal families and sealing powers/endowment/baptisms for the dead. The fullness of the gospel in the latter days. Truth of Joseph Smith being a prophet of God.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the same heading (p. 85) and reads thusly “I witnessed the appearances of Elias and Elijah the prophets in the Kirtland Temple, and the appearances of others as recorded in scripture. The sealing ordinances were restored, with the same blessings promised to Abraham. This solidified my testimony of Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery really having these powers restored to them in the Kirtland Temple. It also solidified my testimony of eternal families and of sealing powers, endowments, and baptisms for the dead in temple work, as is taught in the scriptures. These visits, in conjunction with others, brought about the fullness of the gospel in the latter days. It was clearly communicated to me yet again of the divine truth of Joseph Smith being a Prophet of God and of the restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ upon the earth in the latter days.” Note that virtually everything in this dream, except for the fact that it was a “dream,” is used in her NDE and she claims to witness it as part of her NDE and that these things were “clearly communicated to me.”)

Jews in the wilderness – eating manna, getting water, wandering, what faith, obedience to God. Testimony of Abraham as a Prophet.

(Note: It was Moses, not Abraham, who led the Israelites (not just the Jews) in the wilderness. This “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 44-46) and read thusly “I saw Moses obtaining water and food for his people through miraculous means. Manna was provided for the people as they traveled in the wilderness, according to the faith and obedience of the people” (p. 45). She then goes on to bear testimony of witnessing Moses communicating with the Lord and of his role as a Prophet.)

Elijah – sad, upset, troubled on the mountain. The only prophet the wicked people had not killed. While on the mountain there was an earthquake and fire – then he heard God’s voice. The voice of Jesus Christ. Christ came to him. He told Elijah the new prophet would be Elisha. Testimony of prophets and priesthood mantle being passed o new prophet. Felt intense emotion with this dream…I woke up early in the morning feeling as if I had seen a movie of this.

(Note: this “dream” (combined with the “Elijah” one above and below) makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE under the very same heading (p. 49-50) and reads thusly “In one scene he was standing on a mountain. He was clearly sad and upset. The people had killed all of the prophets except him. While on the mountain there was an earthquake and fire – then he heard the voice of Jesus Christ, who told him the new prophet would be Elisha (p. 49). … It strengthened my testimony of prophets, as well as the importance of obeying temple covenants (p. 50).” Note that in the “dream” Julie “Felt intense emotion” and “woke up early in the morning feeling as if I had seen a movie of this.”)

Ancient Apostles – leading the church after Christ was killed.

(Note: surprisingly this is the first “dream” that doesn’t make it into her book as part of her NDE… unless it is included as part of the next NDE citation below.)

Prophets starting with Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, Elisha, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow, President Hinckley. (president Hinckley was the current prophet). Testimony that all of the prophets since Adam were real and that the priesthood keys had been passed down to current prophet. Prophets receive revelation for the church. Follow the prophet.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 31) and read thusly “… I viewed details about the lives and missions of Adam, Noah, Moses, Elijah, Joseph of Egypt, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and countless other leaders of Christ’s church here upon the earth.” The Matthew, Mark, Luke and John reference might be an allusion to the “Ancient Apostles” dream above.)

Miracles of priesthood anciently and in modern day – people being healed, devils cast out, patriarchal blessings are real.

(Note: these dreams may make an appearance in her book as part of her NDE, and may in fact be combined with other dreams (for example the next dream below when Christ visits the Americas) where she talks about these things, but I can’t find any one specific reference that includes all elements.)

Christ visiting the Nephites – children, blessings, miracles. Christ loves us, Reality that He really did visit the Americas.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 64-65) and reads thusly “I saw what is recorded in the Book of Mormon – Jesus truly did visit the descendants of Lehi in the Americas. I witnessed many of the blessings and miracles performed by Christ. I witnessed him embracing the children and administering to them and to the sick and afflicted. He cast out devils and raised the dead (p. 64).”)

Crusifiction – the garden, and on the cross. What happened in Jeruselum and then in the Americas. The power of the atonement is real – testimony of the atonement.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 59-61) and reads thusly “I witnessed the events in the Garden of Gethsemane. … I saw Christ’s suffering on the cross, including all of the things that are testified of in the scriptures by ancient and modern prophets (p. 59). When his mission was complete, Jesus’ spirit left his body. He had given His life for us. I was shown what happened in Jerusalem, in the Americas, on the islands of the sea, and other places around the world at this time (p. 60).” After this Julie then goes on to talk about the Atonement and Plan of Salvation)

Last Supper – Christ washing the apostles feet. Modern day prophets wash feet of apostles in Upper Room of the SLC temple. Saw these two scenes in the same dream and the message was that the ordinance of washing the apostles feet is a sacred experience. Testimony that the church we have today is the true church, with living prophets and that it is the same gospel that Christ taught while He was on the earth and ministering to his apostles.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 59) and reads thusly “I witnessed Christ washing the Apostles’ feet and administering the Last Supper as they met in an upper room. … I came to a greater understanding of the significance of the Last Supper, and also the act of the washing of feet. I was shown how this relates to modern prophets and apostles and the sacred acts of service they perform. This was a very sacred experience. I was left with a very strong testimony that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church, with real, living prophets and apostles. It is the same gospel that Christ taught while He was on the earth administering to His apostles and the people in His day (p. 59).”)

Birth of Christ - Jesus was in fact born to the virgin Mary and is God’s own son.. He is the Saviour of the world. Dreamed in conjunction with a other scenes from Christ’s life.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 53-56) and reads thusly “The Birth of Jesus Christ. I was then shown the life and ministry of our Savior Jesus Christ, and all of the wonderful events that surrounded it. Jesus was in fact born to the Virgin Mary, and is God’s own son. He is the Savior of the world (p. 53).” She then goes on to describe witnessing other scenes from Christ’s birth and life. Again she clearly states that this was a dream… so why is it part of her NDE?)

Three Degrees of Glory dreams – many mansions in heaven. “City of Light”, missionary work going on in the spirit world. Library, Book of Records, gardens, room where I could see a “movie” of my life up to that point (about five years ago), some people in “street clothes,” other people in white robes, some had hoods.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 68, 73, chapters 4, 5, 6, 7…all throughout the book really))

Satan dreams – that he is real and has many hosts of heaven that were cast out with him and help him. Different people, that I don’t know in real life and have never seen before, are trying to confuse and misguide me. Darkness all around, demons reaching for me (dark shadowy figures). I hate these dreams. I have only had this type a few times, fortunately.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 67) and reads thusly “Satan is real and has many hosts of heaven that were cast out with him and who help him. I was shown that there are many different spirits who have been and would continue to try and confuse and misguide me. Their goal is to interfere in God’s plan for us and to destroy us.”)

Adam and Eve Dreams – “In the beginning” - similar to the temple, not same people though. (but the first time I had this dream I was in college and had not been endowed yet.) Helped with my testimony of the Creation.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 31, 108))

Noahs’ Ark – the flood. Of course I have read this in the bible, but in my dream it played out like a movie scene. The emotion I felt was so real I woke up in the middle of the night at about 3 a.m.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 34-37))

Abraham parting the Red Sea. – testimony that this miracle really happened. Abraham was a true prophet.

(Note: It was Moses who parted the Red Sea, not Abraham. This “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 44-45))

Elijah – taken up in a chariot – dropped his mantle “priesthood robes.” I had this dream around the same time I had the Kirkland Temple dream. Gave me a vivid picture in my mind. Had not ever studies the prophet Elijah, but after this dream I read in the scriptures that this is indeed what happened. I may have learned this in church sometime, but it was not part of my conscious thought.

(Note: this “dream” (along with the other “Elijah” ones above) makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 49-50))

Joseph Smith’s first vision/Angel Moroni– then getting the gold plates. Confirmation that Joseph really talked with Moroni and that he was given the gold plates.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 75-82))

Joseph Smith – translating the gold plates – Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith. Also with Emma. I had always believed since childhood and had faith that Joseph Smith was a prophet but at the time I had this dream I was really struggling with my testimony of Joseph Smith and had prayed for a confirmation that he had really seen God and translated the plates.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 83))

John the Baptist giving Oliver Cowdery and Joseph Smith the Priesthood.- This dream went along with the one above and was part of the same dream.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 83-84))

Peter, James and John giving Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery the higher priesthood.
This one was also part of the dream including the two scenes above. It was a sequential dream starting with the first vision and ending with his Martydom,

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 84))

Tent Cities – gathering to places of safety. Several and recurring starting in Spring of 2004 and consistently for a few years, until I finally journaled them. About three years after having my first tent dream I confided in my Stake President and Relief society president that I was having a lot of dreams about the last days. I did not tell my stake president specifics about tent cities, but I told him about the plaques, famines, droughts, collapse of the U.S. economy, earthquakes and wars I was seeing in my dreams. He said he felt they were of spiritual significance and counseled me to continue praying for understanding. My Relief Society President at the time bought me Roger’s book “Dreams and Visions of the Last Days” in December of 2006. This was a huge answer to my prayers because I was feel very weighed down and overwhelmed at the intensity of some of my dreams, and not understanding why I was having them at increasing rates. She also offered to type them for me while I dictated to her what I had seen in my dreams and this was a major blessing for me. After typing several of my dreams and finding that they were very similar, and in some cases the details were identical, my friend referred me to the AVOW site (around the Spring of 2007). I finally got the courage to check out the AVOW site during the Fall of 2007. I joined shortly thereafter and have been a “silent member” just reading the dreams or others and comments people make. This week, September 2009, I have now decided I have the courage and feel comfortable sharing some of my experiences with AVOW members.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 111-120))

Second Coming Dreams – wars, mobs. Marshall law, pestilence, famine, drought, earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, tsunamis, fires, flooding, plaques, biological warfare, nuclear, return of lost tribes, Adam-Ondi-Ahman, saints returning to Zion, City of Zion,
Temporary temples or tabernacles, food storage and emergency prep, dreams pertaining to family issues, dreams pertaining to a few different friends.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 121-154))

Original Nauvoo temple being built – prior to hearing about the new Nauvoo temple being built, but around the same time, I had this dream. It involved seeing the saints building the temple, their sacrifices, hard work and dedication. Baptisms for the dead – how important they are was confirmed to me.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 88))

Original Nauvoo temple being burned. Saints fleeing, and traveling to Utah. This was an intense dream and very emotional for me. I woke up crying.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 89))

Saints fleeing Missouri. Pioneers homes burned and some of the awful treatment the saints received from mobs (people murdered etc).. This was very intense and I woke up crying – felt a real connection to those that gave their lives for the gospels sake. Woke up with an urgent feeling that I needed to do geneology work. Also, it gave me perspective on my own trials at the time, which although they were very difficult for me, it reminded me of how blessed I was and that although we may suffer in this life due to the choices of others, the Lord is aware of us and those who have gone before us are very much alive in the spirit world. We are not alone. There are angels all around us.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 87-88))

Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail. Then in Carthage and the martyrdom. What can I say. I was actually crying in my dream . This was in conjunction with one of my dreams about the saints fleeing west.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 89))

Baptisms for the dead – temple work. Nauvoo temple. The importance of this work was the main message.

(Note: this “dream” (in conjunction with the Nauvoo Temple one above) makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 88))

Emma Smith – gathering the hymms. Testimony of Relief Society.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 84-85))

Me with my husband and two children. A son about three and a baby boy about 6 months old – standing on a mountain ledge overlooking a valley. I had this dream before I met my husband, and it was a back view of all of us recurrently for six years. After dating him for two weeks I dreamed the dream again only this time, we all turned around and I could see his face.

Dreams of White Blossomed tree, river, great and spacious building off to the right. Little path leading to the White tree and a less brilliant tree along the way. Two other trees, lots of fog. Many dreams of this which include different people in my life at the tree, in the fog, drowning in the river or falling in and trying to get out, friends and family in spacious building calling my name. Have had this dream with varying details in the scene too many times to count.

Joseph and Hyrum Smith killed – I bawled! Woke up crying. Motivated me to live up to my covenants.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 89))

Brigham Young (New prophet – succession. Testimony of how the priesthood goes to the new prophet).

Lots of dreams about my ancestors – pioneers – and great grandmother on my mothers side. Grandma on maternal side and both grandpas, and great aunt and uncle who died when I was a child. Biological grandma passed away when my mother born, both grandfathers died when I was a child.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 98))

The Mormon Battallion - they are like the stripling warriors in modern day. Modern day “battalion” in the last days (dreams that I have had where some will be required to give up their lives for the freedom of the U.S. and of freedom of the gospel).

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 90))

Dream of Earthquakes – several throughout the world, but the most frightening was one starting in Gulf of Mexico , up through St. Louis, splinters through out Midwest – all the way up to the Great Lakes – hit Jackson county and surrounding areas really hard (9-9.5 on the scale) and caused a tidal wave and flooding from the Missouri River and Mississippi River. Wiped out Independence. I woke up in at about five in the morning with this one – it was so real. Had this dream about 6 years ago – prior to learning a month later on National Geographic that there is the Madrid fault line going right through that area. I had no prior knowledge of the geography of the Midwest – had just moved to the KC area the year before.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 129))

Tsunamis/earthquakes/storms/flooding all over the world – seemed like they were everywhere Message that I felt was to pay attention to the weather patterns, and natural disasters because they are signs of the times.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 128))


Uprising of Central and South America against the United States. Specifically saw Peru.

Dreams of Missionary work with various friends and family members.

Dreams of loading trucks with food storage - big white semi.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 112))

Dreams of people coming from the East and staying and camping temporarily in the KC area. I think on their way somewhere but it was unclear.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 112))

To be continued...

Onsdag
captain of 100
Posts: 798

Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

I. Julie’s “dreams” posted on AVOW continued.

Dream of my moms house
– wrote down description of a the house and lot – aerial vision first, then backyard, then inside some of the rooms. Had this dream about four months before my mom bought the house ( in Lindon, Utah) and knew in my dream it was in Lindon. I am not familiar with Lindon, nor did I know anyone living in Lindon, Utah. This dream was part of other dreams, recurrent and building on each other - don’t know why I had them. This was Spring over four years ago. She moved in in November, I saw the house for the first time in March a year after dreaming about it. She only lived in the house two years and sold it a year and a half ago. Not sure why I dreamed about this house, other than it gave me an opportunity to confide in my mom that I am “a dreamer”, which I had never told her about before.

Dream about the need/urgency for geneology, temple work, food storage.

WHITE TENTS – in fields in Kansas and Missouri – people camping. Church provided these, and some people had their own. Some trucks and campers, but not many.

People not willing to leave Utah Valley, prior to Second Coming– destruction, thundering, lightening, fires – earthquakes follow– temples the only real safe haven in the SL valley.

Geneology – specific people that I did not know but was given a name and date – did their research and took their names to the temple and did their work. This was an amazing experience for me and a huge testimony builder that there are so many people on the other side waiting for their work to be done.

Chinese man – great wall of china – Chinese Christian church. Again, I had never heard of this man, know very little about China and nothing about the Christian church or history of missionary work in China. Testimony builder for me that the lord is aware of each of us BY NAME and that what has happened in China with other churches missionary work opens the way for the restored gospel to be preached there. There is more to the story, but it is too sacred and personal to share.

Dreams of God the Father on his thrown with concourses of angels all around singing praises. Testimony that He is real and that He loves me.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 97))

Martin Handcart Company – I have pioneer ancestors that crossed the plains. Have these kinds of dreams every so often. I always wake up feeling more grateful for my pioneer ancestors who sacrifice so much so that I could have the true gospel.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 89))

Lorenzo Snow – tithing – this dream strengthened my testimony of the importance of paying tithes.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 92))


Building the SLC temple – the sacrifice, work, faith and determination it took the saints.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 90-91))


Unsealed records that will come forth in the latter days. This has been prophesied and I believed it would happen one day, but after several dreams about these records coming forth in the last days, my testimony is solid. No idea when, but the impression I got in my dream was that this would indeed happen prior to the Saviours’ return.
(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 152))

Two prophets who die in the streets in the last days prior to the Second Coming. Can’t see their faces, but in my dream the people rejoice that they have died, then I dreamed about them coming back to life and the people reacting in shock and fear. Not unusual for me to dream this, because I have read this in the scriptures and have imagined (while awake) what that will be like. I have dreamed this four times in the past five years. It is always the same scene.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 153-154))

Dreams of concentration camps in the United States. Some were multiethnic, but one dream I was in a concentration camp – visiting for some reason. I could not tell if I was there in spirit or in person, as it seemed that no one there noticed me. This particular camp was a Chinese concentration camp. It was horribly sad.

Dad, brothers, husband, and brother’s in law on a battlefield. Not a usual battlefield. The message was that this was figurative – pertaining to a spiritual battlefield. Hard to explain. I also saw my grandfather on my fathers side who passed away when I was 11 years old. My father had a similar dream the same week and we talked about it over the phone. It strengthened my testimony that there are people on the other side helping us fight our spiritual battles here on earth – and that we are literally in a fight for our souls.

Dreams of China invading California, first coming to Los Angelos, then shortly thereafter into San Fransisco and up the West Coast. Russia and China were working together to divide up the United States and Russia came in through Alaska, New York and up and down the East coast and Northern West Coast. There were military helicopters overhead. We were headed to places of safety (camping in the mountains) and so were thousands of other members of the church,. They were coming from the East, camping in Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, a few in Colorado, Washington State. Temporarily camping in the Midwest on their way to more long term places. I had several dreams pertaining to this subject. The church did a broadcast, sent letters to Stake Presidents asking what supplies people had and how much food storage. Only a small percentage of the people went, either because they did not have the faith, or they were not prepared. The church helped to provide sanitary kits and blankets to some. White semi trucks came and my husband and other priesthood brethren loaded the trucks with supplies and food storage. Prior to this, in a separate meeting held at the church building, the priesthood leaders (did not recognize them as anyone I know) passed out a check list asking people to check off if they had anything listed, and if so, how much. Things on the list included axes, hammers, food storage, hoes, rakes, nails, horses and cows, sanitary supplies.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 111-114, 135-136) and read thusly “I saw additional foreign troops landing on both coasts of the United States, including Chinese troops, and some of what I believe were North Korean troops (p. 135). … They landed first in Los Angeles, then soon after in San Francisco and on up the West Coast. Large numbers of Russian troops entered the United States through the Alaskan coastline, and on the Eastern Coast of the United States. Russia came in through Alaska, New York and up and down the East Coast and northern West Coast. There were military helicopters overhead (p. 136). … I then was shown my own family’s journey from our homes to the places of refuge. … Thousands of others were doing the same thing. The majority of the Saints were attempting to reach campgrounds in Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Montana, Colorado, and Washington, but I also saw camps in Florida, the Northeast, and other places. Some families temporarily camped in the Midwest on their way to more established camps. I was shown scenes like this many times (p. 114). … During this time, the leaders of the LDS Church scheduled a special meeting concerning preparedness that was broadcast. They also sent letters to stake presidents asking them to determine what supplies the Saints had and how much food storage they had (p. 111). … Only a small percentage of the members went to the camps, either because they did not have faith, or they were not prepared. Within hours of the prophet’s invitation, everything was put into motion. White semi-trucks came, and they were loaded with supplies and food storage before traveling to the camps (p. 112). So meetings were held where local leaders passed out a list asking Church members to indicate the supplies they had available if needed. The list included axes, hammers, food storage, blankets, sanitary supplies, fabric, clothing, hoes, rakes, nails, horses, cows, and more (p. 111).” Note especially the changes Julie made from the dream to the NDE account so that instead of reading as a personal dream that was meant for her specifically it now reads for more general application for everyone and the whole Church. Also note that in this post she explicitly says that these were “dreams” and that she “had several dreams pertaining to this subject,” and then in her book she changes her story so that she saw these things in the spirit world as she looked through the “Window of Heaven” (p. 111))

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 23rd, 2009
Sorry this post is so hard to read.
I took your advice and re-typed some of the basics of my dreams on Word and then copied and pasted. Don't know why the code is showing up, but it is really hard to read and annoying. So, if anyone knows how to fix this, I would appreciate the help. Can you tell this is all knew to me? Embarassing!
Sorry everyone.

Also, if you are interested in a certain topic or dream, let me know and I will post more details if I feel it is appropriate to share. I can tell you right now that some things I feel constrained by the spirit not to share here, so please understand and know that it is not me just being evasive or vague for no reason. If I don't remember something, I will tell you in my posts and if it is too personal or I just don't feel comfortable sharing it on AVOW then I hope you won't take it personally. It took me several years to even tell my family anything about my dreams, and it was not until a few years ago that I started to confide in a few friends and priesthood leaders. My husband has known since we were engaged fourteen years ago, but were it not for his sensitivity, support, encouragement and belief, I probably would never have felt comfortable sharing with other people at all.

SUNDAYMORNING - GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU! HOW ARE YOU? I have missed you and was glad to see your post. We need to catch up! Hope life is going well for you and your family. Thank you so much for everything. You know what I mean I hope! You are a great friend.

(Note: Again it almost seems as though Julie is fishing for attention, tantalizing people to ask for more. At the same time she seems to be providing herself with an excuse to be “evasive or vague” under the veil of following the Holy Ghost. Granted, we should be following any and all such promptings from the Holy Ghost and keeping sacred things sacred, but is Julie actually doing this, or is she playing to her audience? Also, because of Julie's words I suspect the user "sundaymorning" on ldsavow may be Julie's former Relief Society President whom she refers to as having helped her type up many of these dreams and introduced her to AVOW. If so it would be interesting to hear her story)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Dreams of camps, weather, president
I have had dreams of Obama, but usually they are just warning dreams not to trust him and specifically that he is involved with Gadianton robbers. Also, in a few of the dreams I have had about him involve warnings of socialism and poor relations with other nations which leads to more political problems abroad. I have had several dreams about the collapse of the U.S. economy, in which he plays a part. Those dreams started shortly after 911 though, so he was just a contributing factor.

I did have dreams of Mit Romney running for president starting in 2004. In my dreams of the elections, campaigning, I did not see Obama, but I did see another caucasion with dark hair and a blue suit (face was blurred out in all of the dreams), shaking hands with politicians, US citizens, Arab leaders, European leaders, and Israel leaders. The message was very strong that this individual was not to be trusted, that he was playing both sides and was double crossing America. Don't know who he is, but this dream was disturbing, very real and vivid and this person was playing an integral part in the U.S government. I am not sure he was a future President or just running for office, or holding some other office, but the words Presidential flashed before me.
Also, the thought Antichrist came and then I saw an Arab man in white with a wite turban. This dream woke me up early in the morning and I could not go back to sleep. I had variations of this
dream three times in a week and a half in 2004, then again in 2007 I had it twice in the same month.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 133) and reads thusly “During this time, an anti-Christ conspirator emerged on the world scene. I did not see his face, but he had dark brown hair. He was a handsome Caucasian who was a smooth talker and a sharp dresser. He became a ‘peacemaker’ in the Middle East who was a deceiver – a true Gadianton robber. He aligned himself with the United Nations and the United States, and he made friends with many countries. He performed many ‘miracles,’ and even the very elect were deceived by his feats. This same man knew and made friends with an Arab man who was also an anti-Christ. I saw the Arab man wearing all white clothing, including a white turban, shaking hands with the above mentioned Caucasian. They were both very wicked and conspiring men who sought power, control, and dominion over the people of the world.” Also note that Julie mentions having had the dreams a number of times in 2004 and 2007. She doesn’t mention exact dates, but some could have been before and definitely some (all?) of them took place after her purported NDE. So why then are they included in her book about her 2004 NDE? She also may contradict herself as she says she did not see the caucasian's face, but then in the next breath says that he was handsome. This minor detail is missing from her dream and was likely added as an embellishment for her NDE.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Dreams of camps etc.
I would be happy to go into more detail when I have a little more time. Stay tuned! Thanks for your support and interest.

(Note: Again seems to be tantalizing and tempting the audience with the promise of more information to come. Also seems to be feeding off the attention too, though it could be genuine appreciation.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Thanks!
Braston,

thank you for your comments and compliments on my name! I will do my best to answer everyone's questions as soon as I can.

(Note: already you can begin to get an idea of the amount of attention her posts are getting. I think it is a natural tendency for people to crave insight and knowledge about future events, especially among a LDS audience studying last days events, and someone sharing their dreams which appear to be prophetic in nature can soon become something of a celebrity – whether intended or not.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Tent cities, or "Cities of Light"
Here are a few of the dreams I have had:

DREAM #1

My first dream that I had about people camping starting out with an aerial view overlooking the United States. The land was dark, except for spots of light in different parts of the country. There were some on the East, and Midwest, but most of them were clustered throughout the Rocky Mountain area. I could see a few in Colorado, one for sure in Washington, though most of Washington was dark. I saw several in Utah, Idaho, and Wyoming. Most of them in Utah were in Northern Utah. Some areas just had light, and other areas were glowing with with what looked like a small fire.

As the scene grew closer, I had a better view of what the areas looked like. I saw white tents, and many different colored tents. Then I was looking at the areas from the sky again and like a zoom lense on a video camera, I looked as the view narrowed in on one of the areas where I saw a fire. Then I saw the same scene as before, only off to the side of the camp there was a huge white tent. It looked similar to the pictures of the tabernacle the Jews had while wandering in the wilderness with Moses. Above it I could see a very bright light and it looked as though fire was coming out of the top of the tent - but it was hovering. The thought came to me that this was indeed a temporary temple. I saw people dressed in white clothing standing near the entrance of the tent, as if they were guarding it. There was a fence surrounding the perimeter, and two armed men guarding several feet away on both sides of the area, outside of the fence. I saw a a man and a woman enter the tent after talking to a man dressed in white who was standing at the entrance.
I heard the word templework and that scene ended. The view panned out again and I was looking at the United States from the sky again.
Through thought I knew that the fire represented the presence of the Spirit of the Lord at these places. I am not sure how many there were, because this scene did not last long, and by the time I realized what I was looking at, I did not count them. It seemed like there were several, but there were more areas without fire then those with fire. There were probably only five or six fires, and about twenty tent cities in the Rocky Mountain area, and a few scattered throughout other parts of the U.S. I did not see any fires in Washington state, the Midwest, or in the East.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 117-118) and reads thusly “As I looked down upon the United States, I saw the land become dark, except for spots of light in different parts of the country. This was both literally and figuratively. I could see a few Places of Refuge in Colorado, and at least one in the state of Washington. I saw several camps in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana. Most of the tent cities in Utah were in the northern part of the state, but there were a few near Moab and St. George. Some areas just had a mellow light surrounding them, while other areas were glowing with what looked like a small fire, which I felt were Cities of Light. I then began to move toward the earth. The view narrowed in on one of the camps. As the scenery grew closer, I saw white tents, and several other tents of varying colors. Off to the side of the camp there was a huge white tent. It looked similar to the pictures of the tabernacle the Jews had while wandering in the wilderness with Moses, although there was no altar in the courtyard area. I could see a very bright light above it and it looked as though fire was coming out of the top of the tent – but it was hovering in place. The thought came to me that this was indeed a temporary temple. I saw people dressed in white clothing standing near the entrance of the tent, as if they were guarding it. There was a fence surrounding the perimeter, and two armed men were outside of the fence, guarding the area. I saw a man and a woman enter the tent after talking to a man dressed in white who was standing near the entrance. I heard the words ‘temple work’ and the scene ended. The view panned out again and I was looking at the United States from the sky again. I knew that the fire represented the presence of the Spirit of the Lord at these places. I am not sure how many there were, because the scene did not last long, and by the time I realized what I was looking at, I did not count them. It seemed like there were several, but there were more areas without fire than those with fire.” Notice just how much of the dream finds its way into her NDE. Word for word, line after line – whole paragraphs are taken from the dream and passed off as her NDE. Also note in the above “dream” version that she explicitly says that this is a dream, and below we will see that this is in fact part of a series of dreams Julie had. Also of interest is that she says very explicitly that this was the “first dream that I had about people camping.” Earlier in the thread Julie said that “my first camp dreams, or places of refuge dreams, started in the Spring of 2004.” Which means, if we are to take her for her word, that Julie had this dream well before her actual NDE – so why then is it included as part of her NDE?)

DREAM #2

The next night I dreamed the same thing, only the dream continued. This time I saw the United States from the sky again, but it was daytime. I saw pillars of smoke rising out of the tabernacles. Once again, like a zoom lense on a camera, I saw a what looked like dozens of tents. Off to the side away from the center of camp there was a huge white tent again. The best way I can describe it was that it was a huge rectangle with a vaulted roof. This one had a rock wall surrounding it, about three feet high. There were guards dressed in regular street clothes standing outside of the fenced area, one person on each side of the long sides of the tent. This time I did not see anyone in the doorway of the temple, nor did I see anyone going inside. There was a pillar of smoke hovering in the air above the tent. It looked like a small gray cloud.

After I saw this, I turned and looked and saw people dressed in warm fall clothing preparing camp fires, fixing food, and cleaning around their campsites. Some of the people were gathering at one of the campfires and singing hymns. Children were busy playing. I saw mothers caring for young children. I saw a garden area and someone was working in the garden, but I could not tell what they were doing. The feeling was peaceful and I sensed that the people gathered in this place were saints. This was a VERY difficult experience for everyone, but there seemed to be a great deal of organization and order involved.

People had assigned responsibilities and everyone contributed and was expected to do their part. This was more than mere survival, this was spiritual preparedness for the return of the Saviour. The message transferred to me through thought was that this was temporary and that these people would be leaving to travel back to Missouri to build the City of Zion. It was a testing ground of sorts, and the law of consecration was observed. I saw some livestock, but not much. Just horses and a cow.

I saw four or five men on horseback and they were switching "shifts" with other priesthood men who were armed and guarding the surrounding mountain areas. Some men were keeping watch several miles away, and others were stationed around the perimeter of the camp, out of the site of the children, but close enough that they could warn and protect the area.

The dream ended and I woke up. It was about five a.m. when I looked at the clock. This dream had such an impact on me, that I could not sleep the rest of the night and got up and prayed for understanding. I felt the need to write it down and did so.

(Note: this “dream” makes an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 118-120). It reads very much the same as this “dream,” though in her book there are some changes. Most notably, in her NDE she describes seeing herself and husband in this experience, whereas in the above “dream” she doesn’t mention anything about this. So here we have Julie testifying that this was a dream, in fact the second in a series of dreams months before her NDE, and that she wrote it down sometime after waking up – and what’s more she did not understand the dream and has prayed for understanding. Why is it then that these dreams are found within her account as a NDE? And why is it that she publicly and willfully testifies that her account of her NDE in “A Greater Tomorrow” is true and actually did happen just as she describes when in fact it didn’t and appears to have only been a collection of dreams and other things?)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Dreams of "Places of Refuge"
After having the other two dreams two nights in a row, about a week later I had this dream.

DREAM #3

The first dream started with a phone call from my visiting teacher reminding me of the Relief Society meeting we were having to make personal hygiene kits. They had announced this in Relief Society at church the previous Sunday and we were to meet on Thursday evening at the church in the R.S room to work on them. Also, they asked us to donate blankets if we had extras. The meeting was to be held at 6:00 p.m. --I saw myself sitting in the meeting listening to our R.S president as she told us that the Lord has commanded us for years to be prepared and that this was a way for us to help others who did not have the economic ability to pay for these things on their own. We spent our time visiting and chatting just like we would at any other enrichment meeting. There were only about 12-15 people that showed up to help.

Then the dream ended.

(Note: This dream doesn’t make an appearance in her book, I only included this post because in it she again makes reference to the other dreams as being dreams)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 24th, 2009
Chinese concentration camps
In response to your question, I am not sure of the timing of these camps. I had this dream around the same time I had the dreams regarding a particular Chinese man who is currently a leader in the Chinese Church of Christ. There were many Chinese Christians that were persecuted for Christ's sake. I was having dreams about tent cities within a similar time frame though and am not sure if it was a dream of the future when we are at war with China, or what.

Sorry, but I did not write down all of the details of these dreams right away, so I forget many of the details. I had these particular series of dreams over the course of a few months, about every other night, in 2004. So it has been awhile and I honestly could not tell you what time frame. Without going into all of the details surrounding the dreams of the story of this Chinese Christian, I am afraid I am unable to adequately explain and give proper context to the scenerio. I was left with a feeling that what I saw in my dreams about early Chinese christians being persecuted for Christ's sake was similar to what people would suffer and be required to endure in the last days. Many people were tortured and killed for their faith. This was one of those intense, very emotionally moving dreams that woke me up crying in the middle of the night, several nights.

I do not feel it is appropriate for me to share any more about these dreams due to the personal nature and sacred experience it was for me. I hope you understand and that I have at least answered your question a little.

(Note: these Chinese dreams aren’t in her book. However, it is of interest that Julie readily admits that she is uncertain on a lot of things that pertain to her dreams, especially the older ones where some time has passed and she didn’t write everything down. She especially points out the fact that these dreams took place in 2004. 2004 is also when she supposedly had her NDE, and she never wrote anything down (insofar as I understand) for that until she began writing her book (2012-2014 timeframe?). How then is it that in her book everything is very certain and definite – she is constantly saying things very authoritatively such as “it was made very clear to me” all throughout her book – which book contains most all of the “dreams” found in this thread wherein she is very uncertain of herself and other things?)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 25th, 2009
In response to the question about what I am doing to prepare
My husband and I started getting our food storage right after he got his first job out of law school in the summer of 2000. We have a little over a years supply of food for our family of 5 and three additional months worth of regular pantry closet food like regular canned goods etc. that we eat as part of our normal diet. Unfortunately, we have experienced three times of unemployment since in the past nine years, and medical bills for me which put us into debt a bit. During our times of employment, we have a nice income fortunately, so we prioritized getting our food storage and other preparedness items.

First we put together our 72 hour kits - one for each member of our family and two extras. We also have emergency kits/food/supplies for both of our cars. Then we built up three months worth of food for our pantry. After we did this we did out years supply of food. I also have a 55 gallon drum, two fifteen gallon drums, two five gallon water containers, and about 50 large (gallon sized) containers of water that I filled from empty applejuice containers from Sam' club. I also bought several (like 15) cases of bottled water, that we use regularly and restock (since those don't keep for to long). The church recommends at least two weeks work of water storage, but I probably have enough for three months if we are resourceful.

While building up our water storage, we also began to stock up on hygiene items, laundry and dish soap, first aid kits, napkins, toilet paper, hand sanitizer, matches, paper plates and plastic utensils etc. I have a wheat grinder, but it is electric and honestly I have never used it, so I need to practice! After I had three to six months worth of those items, I started on what I call my "wilderness survival bags."

These survival bags include everything from emergency food bars to a portable shower and snake bite kit. Plenty of flashlights (hand cranked and non battery operated. Emergency flashers, radios, walkie-talkies- cash-(quarters and bills) - more of the basics. I also packed more hygiene stuff, extra winter clothes, one pair of summer clothing, gloves, scarfs, winter hats, hats for each of us that cover our ears too. I am not sure what you call them but they look like a hat you would wear fishing - a hat to cover you in the sun and heat. Anyway - I packed other things too like fire starters, hand and foot warmers. You probably get the picture.

We have sleeping bags and two regular tents - a ten man and a six man. I have not felt I could afford a new tent like the one recommended, but eventually we want to get one. I want to get warmer sleeping bags too, because in my dreams we were camping for at least a year and I saw snow in some of my dreams.

Oh, and I packed brushes, combs ---and a little bit of makeup just for the heck of it. And some comfort foods like candy and gum.

We have a few other things, and I can think about them some more and post them if you are interested, but right now I am headed to a girls night out with a few friends so I need to go.

Hope this helps.

(Note: these “dreams” make an appearance in “A Greater Tomorrow” as part of her NDE (p. 137) and reads thusly “I was shown that these camps lasted for quite some time. I am not exactly sure for how long, but it was at least for a year or more. I saw that the people endured at least one, if not several very tough winters.” It is also interesting to note the uncertainty in Julie’s book which has been reflective of her uncertainty in her dreams too, suggesting that her account originated as dreams.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 26th, 2009
Tent temple dream and attending the temple
I just got my October Ensign and plan to read it tomorrow. I will let you know if the picture looks like what I saw in my dreams.

Thank you all for your great comments. I can't tell you HOW MANY dreams of the temple I have had and the message is always the same ---go to the temple and do it often. Our entire stake conference was just on the temple too.

About my China dreams ----they were about a specific man and I saw events of his life from childhood to adulthood until he was like in his thirties. I also saw christian missionaries first from the Lutherin church, then others - going in to preach the gospel in China - but this was long ago in the mid 1800's. I specifically saw a particular female missionary ----and the dreams were intense. I saw this Chinese man's struggles to find truth and getting the first copy of the bible in China. He was imprisoned and severly tortured for establishing Christianity in China. He escaped from Prison after many years and went to Germany.

Turns out I dreamed of a man who is actually still alive and is one of the main leaders of the Chinese Church of Christ. I had an amazing miraculous experience with these dreams. I still can't believe it. I was able to do the temple work for the Lutheran missionary that lived 30 years in China but was from Norway. I learned of Brother Yun's book from a lady I met at Sam's club while giving her a pass along card, under inspiration to do so. This was about two years ago. I highly recommend the book. It is called "A Heavenly Man". There are some things in there that are pretty extreme, but he is a man of great faith and strength.

Miraculous is all I can say about how the spirit works in our lives. I did also dream about missionary work in China in the last days too.

(Note: Yet more dreams not found in her book, but, what is of interest is that she seems to be employing the “after the fact” and other strategies (see points #94, 89, and 91) to establish that her dreams are credible and very often fulfilled)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
September 28th, 2009
Tabernacle/portable temple dream
I read my ensign yesterday and the picture of the tabernacle was very similar to what I saw in my dreams, but not exact. There was not alter out front, and I think the white large tent was one piece, unlike the picture of the one in the Ensign that looks like it may be two separate tents.

FYI - Someone had asked me about wether or not the dreams of portable temples I had looked like the on in the Ensign this month.

(Note: this detail from her dreams is included in Julie’s book as part of her NDE – see “DREAM #1” posted by Julie Rowe on September 24th, 2009, for more)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
October 27th, 2009
Checking back in after a busy few weeks
Thank you everyone for your posts. I am sorry I have not been back on to type more of my dreams, particularly the Adam-Ondi-Ahman dreams that you have requested. I have three children, work 30 hours a week and am in school for my teaching license. Needless to say, life is very busy and I don't seem to have much time for posting. I will try to make an effort in the next few weeks to post some more dreams.

In the meantime, I wanted to comment on the Washington state Earthquake/tsunami dreams. I have had several (at least four) dreams of this very thing happening in the same locations mentioned. I also saw earthquakes off the coast of Mexico and other places in Central and South America. I have already mentioned about the earthquakes going up from the Gulf of Mexico through Missouri and up towards the Great Lakes. This created a tsunami effect/flooding from the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers.

I also have had several dreams about earthquakes on the East Coast and saw New York, Delaware, Conneticut, Rhode Island, Mass., devastated/flooded. A tsumani hit NY and even messed up the Statue of Liberty. They have been disturbing dreams for me because they seemed so real and so overwhelmingly destructive. I hope they don't come true, but since I have had other dreams come true, I guess it is possible. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I often pray for understanding as to why I have dreams like this ----the answer is simply for me to be aware, to prepare, and to follow the Prophet.

I have tornado and Hurricane dreams too....I always wake up with this feeling that I need to warn my neighbors, family and friends to live righteously because we are "living on borrowed time" meaning time is relatively short until things get really really difficult for us all. I am a happy person who likes my life. I do not look forward to a call out because that means the world is ripe for destruction and we are in for hard times even more so than our current trials. I do pray for strength daily to overcome the adversary and his helpers and to be able to have the armor of God so that I can be worthy to withstand the evils around me. It will be so great when Christ rules and Satan is bound, but between now and then I just hope I am strong enough to make it through whatever the Lord sees fit for me to endure. Perhaps that is one reason I have some of these dreams ---to help me literally "see" what is coming and prepare mentally, emotionally, spiritually as much as possible. But honestly, I don't think it is possible to prepare entirely for what I have seen in my dreams....it is horrendous. On the positive side, I also have had dreams of the saints gathering together and being strengthened and protected, although there are still many good people, even many righteous members of the church who die in natural disasters and war.

We just need to stay focused on the basics of the gospel - attending the temple - and following the prophet. That message is very clear in many of my dreams.

(Note: Many of the things Julie says here could be examples of and fit nicely into the section on deception – namely points 89-91, and 97-99. Her words could also be sincere, truly genuine and heartfelt. I hate to think that Julie might be intentionally trying to deceive others. I like to look for and hope for the best in people, and would truly like to believe that Julie is a good, honest, and righteous woman – she is after all a daughter of God. Her words sure give me hope that the latter is true… but at the same time the end result and fruit of her labors (her book) would seem to suggest otherwise.)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
January 31st, 2010
I AM FINALLY BACK ON AVOW
So sorry that I have not posted anything in months.....quite honestly the main reason is because I am so busy I have not been on the site for several weeks. I am working 30 hours a week and taking four classes towards my Masters degree and teaching license, plus church callings, three kids and husband, I just don't have time these days to sit down and post.

I am sorry to leave so many of you hanging about my dreams....especially the Adam-ondi-Ahman dreams. Perhaps one day in the future I will post more about them, but a few months ago when I was posting about a few of them, I had computer problems and lost the post. Thanks to help from many of you I learned a better way to post my dreams, so I started to write up the dreams of Adam-Ondi-Ahman again. I was about ten minutes into it when I had a very strong impression that I was not to share some of the specific details I had seen in my dream, that is was not an appropriate setting for sharing these due to the sacred nature of what was involved. So I deleted the post and decided to pray about this topic for a few days. The spirit confirmed to me that I need to be careful about who I share some of these dreams with, as they are very sacred and should only be shared when I feel prompted to do so.

In regard to the specific details of my dreams, particularly the Adam-Ondi-Ahman dreams, I have felt constrained. I have only shared a few of these dreams with my husband, one of my ten siblings, my grandma, and briefly with two friends who also dream. There have been some details I have only shared with my husband, and even he does not know all, mainly because the experiences were sooooo intense and hard to comprehend myself. To dream about something in the future and then have it come true is a very humbling, overwhelming, intense, almost too hard to believe experience for me. I have had several other dreams come true in the past and feel that many of the things I saw in these dreams will possibly come true at some point in the future.

Truthfully, if I had not experienced some of these dreams coming true myself, I would find it hard to believe. But for whatever reason, I have experienced these things, and know that it is a gift from the spirit to help me prepare and to help me get through life now too. Four years ago I met with my Stake President about the burdens I felt at times in dealing with some of the things I see in my dreams. He told me it was a gift of the spirit, counseled me to hold it sacred and not treat it lightly, and gave me a blessing.

In the blessing I was told that I would know the purpose of my dreams as time went on, and was cautioned to seek the spirit through prayer to know these purposes and what I should do with my knowledge. I have felt the comfort of the Holy Ghost and have at times been able to share a few details here and there, such as when I originally decided to post the basics of my dreams on AVOW, and in sharing with close friends and family members. I have become more accustomed to having these experiences now, although I must say it still amazes me when it happens. I know that part of the reason I have this gift is to continue to strengthen my own testimony, and to be able to testify to others. To some it is given the gift of knowledge. For me, this gift comes in part through the gift of dreams.

I appreciate all of you and your support and encouragement. I know that I greatly benefit when others share their spiritual insights, testimonies, and experiences. I want to continue to be an active member on this site, and will post here and there as I have time, and when prompted by the spirit. I hope you understand that if I don't post details, or decline to comment, it is not because I am trying to avoid sharing or being open. I am a very open communicator so that is not a problem for me. I just want to be sure that I am following the spirit and that I use this gift only for what the Lord intended it to be used for. I am still trying to figure all of that out.

In the meantime, when it comes to my dreams and things I "have seen," I am at a kind of "wait and see what the future holds" kind of point. I have faith that whatever happens in the future is part of the Lord's plan and that he is very aware of us and what we need in order to prepare emotionally, mentally, physically, and spiritually.

Although I have had very specific dreams about tent cities and other last days events, I am still living my life as though I am going to be in the Kansas City area for another 20 or 30 years. I am preparing for the possibility of tent cities, etc., but I am also preparing to live life here if that is the Lord's plan for me. I don't know how literal some of my dreams are, although I know from past experience that some have been very literal.

So, as far as time frames go, for instance, I saw the ages of my three children in one dream about hiking to a tent city, and they were about 8, 11 , and 13 years old. They are currently 6, 9, and 11 years old. Time will tell in a few years if that dream comes true. I am at peace knowing that I am doing what I need to be doing right now to prepare either way - because the decisions I am making in my life right now are based on answers to prayer and following the spirit in my life for right now.

I hope I am making sense and that I have explained my feelings and perspectives well enough. Thank you for reading my posts, for all of your comments, and for your encouraging words and insight.

Julie

(Note: Much of what Julie says I have already shared many of my thoughts on elsewhere. I will note though that it seems Julie is starting to make a transition or shift and may be trying to bring her sharing of “dreams” to a close. Perhaps at this point she may have greater plans for her “dreams” and doesn’t want to show all of her hand…)

Posted by “Julie Rowe”
January 31st, 2010
TO PRHarmon
Thank you so much for your kind post and encouraging, uplifting thoughts.

I appreciate your response.

I actually have written down many of the dreams and saved them on a disk...

Thanks again,

Julie

(Note: again makes mention that she has been recording and compiling her dreams into one place…)


Posted by "fellowdreamer" (aka "Julie Rowe")
February 16th, 2014
Thank you...
Thank you for finding this old thread. I have tried looking in the past for this thread but was unsuccessful in locating it.

For those who have read my more recent posts, perhaps this thread will clarify things a bit more and will also serve as an additional witness to my story. I would rather keep my personal identity out of the picture, but too late for that.

I appreciate all of the positive messages you all share.

Additionally, I have had a few more of my past dreams come to fruition this week and it has been a very humbling experience - as it always is.

I also found out that one of the recurring dreams I had last fall about some personal experiences pertaining to a family member and his co-workers may be about to play out. I am praying that it does not happen in real life, because unfortunately these particular dreams have to do with a jet crash. Found out a few days ago that this family member and the other two individuals involved are in fact taking a personal jet on a business trip this coming week. Needless to say, I have some anxiety about the whole situation, however like in many other circumstances where I have been shown things that will happen to friends and family members, the Lord has told me that this knowledge is for me and to help me deal with the trial presented - not to interfere with the choices and agency of others - that even this awful situation is part if His plan for those individuals. It is a difficult position to be in...wanting and wishing I could warn - in fact BEG this loved one not to board the plane. In this situation I did tell my loved one the very basics of the dreams, and asked him to please reconsider and try to make other arrangements for transportation, but at the end of the day, I am left to sit back and wait and watch and put my trust in the Lord.

So....a few weeks ago I posted that I had had several dreams pertaining to last days events and things that I believed would occur this year. Due to the personal nature of the jet crash dreams, I did not discuss them on AVOW. I had been told very specifically to "brace myself" and prepare for something very very difficult in Mid-Feb/March time frame. It could be any number of things that occur between now and then, however, I am now beginning to believe that perhaps what I have been so clearly warned about, is that my loved one is going to be in this crash. I pray I am wrong. I would also ask for your prayers in my behalf, that I can put my trust in the Lord and rely on Him - not letting my fears and anxieties about the situation interfere with what the Lord would have me do or who He would have me be.

The trip is planned for this Weds. morning - they leave Weds morning from Tucson and fly to Kansas. They plan to return the same day so if everything goes fine, they will be back home Weds., night in Tucson. It's going to be a long week, and particularly a long day for me - especially given the fact that I lost two friends in a jet crash a few years ago. I would like to think that the reason I even had these dreams is because of my experience in losing those two friends in a crash, however I dreamed about this loved one and his two co-workers being in a jet crash last September ----three months before my loved one's boss even considered purchasing a company jet. The boss bought the jet Dec. 2013. I told my loved one about my dreams of the crash one week prior to the jet purchase - because I had once again had a series of dreams where I was shown that they would crash.

I pray not. I hope it was symbolic and not literal. I pray not this trip. And I am praying that I will have faith rather than fear.

I mention these current experiences so that in about a week from now, when I know for sure, and I have complete clarity - I will hopefully rely on what I know for sure, and will be able to be strong no matter what the outcome this week.

Please pray for me -

Julie

(Note: So this is Julie’s first post in this thread under the name “fellowdreamer.” She made the post in February of 2014, just three months before her book would later be published. According to other posts by “fellowdreamer” her book was scheduled to be released in late 2014 – so why was her book able to be published many months before the expected release? Perhaps it was because Julie was able to find this thread again with all of the dreams she had posted about – 75-80% of which would find themselves in her book? She does say that she had been looking unsuccessfully for this particular thread. She also appears to be trying to use the “multiplicity of witnesses” deception (point #99) to say that her NDE account/book is true… when in fact it is the very same witness as these “dreams” just repackaged to be a NDE. Also the fact that she was purposefully trying to hide her identity (according to her own words) should raise some questions as to why she would want to hide. She also goes on to explain other dreams she has had regarding “last days events” she believed would occur this year, in particular a “Mid-Feb/March time frame.” These things have not happened (as she goes on to explain in other posts below) and thus have proven false. How many then of her other “dreams” (or events in her NDE) are also false?)

Posted by "fellowdreamer" (aka "Julie Rowe")
February 18th, 2014
In answer to your question WiseMan4
Wise Man4

Thank you for your kind words. I have had some answers to my prayers and concerns regarding this trip they are taking tomorrow and that has brought me comfort.

About the inquiry on dreams of Adam-Ondi-Ahman. At this point in time I feel I need to keep them private, although if that changes I will be sure to post them on AVOW. Thank you for your interest and the very thoughtful questions you have posted.

I am not sure how it all works out, but I did see thousands of people from all over the world camping on the fields and surrounding areas of Adam-Ondi-Ahman. It was crowded but very well organized...and it seemed that in at least many of the areas, the people were divided by tribes and had specific assigned places they were told to report to and organized into large groups. The church has underground tunnels and wells/water sources all over that area sufficient for thousands of people. It will truly be a remarkable event.

In one of my dreams I specifically saw three men from other countries/tribes - wearing their traditional clothing, standing in front of the doorway prior to entering the area that leads to the tornado shelter and water main (or whatever it is, I couldn't tell exactly what it was from my dream, and later when I saw it in real life, I saw the tornado shelter and door, but there is a sign there that says private property, no trespassing, and the door was shut and locked). Anyhow, these three men were shaking hands with a few other Caucasian men (church authorities) - who were wearing dark suites and white shirts and ties. All around there were other people in the area as well.

That is about all I feel I can share at this time. The rest is really too sacred for me to feel I can share. I will think about this topic and pray specifically about whether or not it is ok for me to share more.

Take Care!

(Note: Even as “fellowdreamer” she continues to say that these are dreams… and yet they are found in her book as part of a NDE (see p. 142-143). Why?)

Posted by "fellowdreamer" (aka "Julie Rowe")
February 21st, 2014
Very thankful
Very thankful and happy to report that the trip went fine for my family member. Thankfully, I was given great comfort this week and the spirit let me know that he would be safe and protected during this trip. Don't know what the future brings, since he will be needing to take several of these trips over the next few months, however for the time being, he is home and safe.

This experience has taught me quite a lot about the significance and importance of living in faith rather than fear. It has also given me additional knowledge and insight as to why I dreamed this situation and a confirmation that no matter what happens, the Lord is aware and in charge and my loved one may suffer but he will survive, even if there is an actual jet crash in the near future. I also have come to learn that much of what I dreamed was of symbolic meaning.

Thank you to those of you who brought me comfort and who prayed for me and my family, It makes a difference.


Posted by "fellowdreamer" (aka "Julie Rowe")
March 22nd, 2014
Malaysian Plane is different
The jet crash I witnessed was specific to people I know personally, and it was a small jet plane that crashed.

The Malaysian airliner that is missing is a completely different plane.


Posted by "fellowdreamer" (aka "Julie Rowe")
March 30th, 2014
An Update
Just wanted to let you know that my book, titled, "A Greater Tomorrow" (about my 2004 Near Death Experience), will be released this coming May 2014.

In the book I talk more about some of what I have shared on this thread, so in case you are interested in hearing/learning more about what I was shown and have experienced, you can read more very soon.

Thx,

Julie Rowe

(Note: not just “some,” but a lot of what she “shared on this thread” is in her book… except in her book she never once makes mention of the fact that these are dreams that she had – instead it is all just an integral part and parcel of her NDE. She is also advertising her book for people to buy and read more about her experiences)

This concludes the dream section. It’s almost as if Julie plagiarized her own words (if such is possible) in order to write her book. Word after word, line after line, point by point these “dreams” she had throughout her life and posted about in 2009 later appear in her book published in 2014… but instead of being a collection of dreams she had throughout her life they are suddenly the product of a single near-death experience she claims to have had in 2004.

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

J. Conclusion.

I hope by now it is irrefutable that Julie’s book is not fully in harmony with the gospel of Jesus Christ, the scriptures, and words of the prophets, and that her account is false. At best it is a collection of her dreams, fanciful embellishments, and plagiarized materials taken from scriptures and other sources. Granted, there is indeed many things in her book that are good and true and have benefited many people. To borrow from the words of the Lord, “There are many things contained therein that are true, and… there are many things contained therein that are not true,… therefore, whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the Spirit manifesteth truth; And whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall obtain benefit therefrom; And whoso receiveth not by the Spirit, cannot be benefited.” (D&C 91:1-2, 4-6)

Coming to this point in itself has been very time consuming for me, and mentally, emotionally, and spiritually exhausting. Ironically, even though this has been a very laborious endeavor, it has also been very rewarding mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. Through this I have been able to search the scriptures and words of the prophets more deeply on many subjects and topics. My faith has been strengthened and I have also come to a greater knowledge and understanding that we truly are living in the last days and that there are many – even in our own ranks – who would deceive others and seek to lead people astray. The very fact that Julie has been able to successfully do so to the extent that she has should give us pause and ask “Lord, is it I?” I hope and pray that we will all be able to draw closer to God, His Son – Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and that we will not fall for the deceptions and lies that surround us, and if we do – that we can quickly recognize the error and return again to the right path.

Why these books? What is Julie’s motive or purpose in writing them? I don’t know Julie’s heart or mind (I suppose only God and Julie does), and therefore can’t fully know her motives in writing her books. We do have her words, however, which suggest that she was commanded and made a commitment to God(?) to write it (see p. ix). However, this is very suspect because her account is riddled with problems, false teachings and plagiarism. Perhaps she has convinced herself that her experience was real. I don’t know. But I do know that I am very concerned for her and for those she has deceived. I hope and pray that we can all repent and turn back to Christ and his restored gospel before it is too late. We truly are living in the last days before the second coming of Jesus Christ and there just isn’t much time left.

Again, this document is not intended as a personal attack against Julie or anyone else – though I realize it may seem like it. Truth hurts at times. But I will stand by the truth and invite and challenge anyone to help stand by and defend truth and righteousness. If some of my findings are not true then I hope I can be proven wrong and I will be happy to acknowledge any errors and correct them. Julie once wrote “It was made clear to me regarding the need and importance of standing for truth and righteousness, no matter the opposition and no matter the consequences” (p. 88). I hope and pray that she (and all of us) will indeed follow this counsel and will begin to take a stand for truth and righteousness, no matter what.

With love, your friend and brother,

Erin Branch

Onsdag
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Onsdag »

I don't much care for the formatting here on ldsff. I have tried my best to replicate the formatting from my document, but it still needs work. If you would like to see a full copy of my document (highly recommended!) you can find it here: http://www.docdroid.net/nnbt/a-greater- ... .docx.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Obrien
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Obrien »

tl;dr all.
Try posting the link FIRST next time. That would be convenient. I will read your claims this Christmas morning, in lieu of reading her book that my daughter just bought me...(I'll save the receipt).

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Sarah
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Sarah »

This is my first post to LDS Freedom Forum, but I wanted to let my voice be heard also and support what Onstag has done. I am the one Onstag referred to in his first post as "ramsrn," the other AVOW member who had done research into Julie's online life and postings. Here is a link to all the evidence I found of her inconsistencies.

http://www.docdroid.net/negu/red-flags.odt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please read what I have written before you waste any more time listening to her claims.

Jared E
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Jared E »

Darn that Julie Rowe, encouraging me to repent, prepare myself spiritually and temporally, and follow the prophet.

How dare she.

All of her firesides and radio appearances have been free. Friends donate their sky miles for her to travel, and she stays in people's homes for free. The nerve!

One last thing. During all of your research of scriptures and quotes from the brethren, you seemed to have missed the teachings that the prophets are far from perfect, have their foibles and misgivings and have to repent, and even the Book of Mormon has the faults of men. And those are ordained prophets, yet from Julie Rowe you apparently expect perfection.

I look forward to your sequel, where you stumble upon President Monson's statement last year when he was in Canada, welcoming the people to Boise, and then all of the other minor discrepancies that he's made.

Or, to put it differently, no I don't. But you have my permission to title it "Tinkling cymbals and sounding brass."

Peace out.

Jared

TimeToPrepare
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by TimeToPrepare »

This is my first post. I've followed the Julie Rowe story on here for several months because I am a close personal friend of hers.

I can with 100% certainly verify that she has experienced all that she has reported. I have known her for over 20 years and was a member of her ward at the time of her NDE. She has had dreams and visions dating back to her childhood, and some of her ancestors have had them as well. She did in fact have and NDE experience in addition to numerous other revelatory experiences. She has literally had so many that I don't know how she would keep the timing and sequence of them straight.

To the extent she is human, like us all, there may be personal biases and interpretations in the recounting of her experience. That is how we, as humans, go through life - through the lens our past. I know she has no desire to mislead or deceive - only to add her personal witness to many others of what she has experienced.

Here is what I know about her personally, and I mention this to correct so many of the things I've seen on here that are incorrect, and in many cases, flat out lies. It has been stated that she was inactive during her NDE. She has been active her entire life and was serving in the Relief Society presidency at the time of her NDE. She attends the temple regularly, in most cases monthly despite the temple being over fours hours away from her most of the time I've known her.

It has been stated that she is writing her books to make money and promote herself. She did not seek to have her witness published. Rather, she was approached by others that knew of her experience and were inspired to contact her about publishing it. She makes very little from this - around $1 per book, and given her commitment of time to the book, it is a net loss for her.

The people criticizing her her and on other websites have published flat out lies about her concerning this about which they know nothing. The additional innuendos they use directly contradict what they know to be true. One of the detractors has never read Julie's books, and when she contacted Julie to accuse her of lying, Julie took the time to respond and asked to speak to her directly. The person declined to talk about how she felt and instead is claiming that Julie "sought personal information about her" in response to here criticism. It is unfortunate that people can hide behind a keyboard and anonymously criticize others - even when others have reached out to those spreading lies in an effort to understand them, communicate with them, build a bridge with them, and ultimately help them.

There are more things that could be said about the people spreading these lies. Their personal histories are not unknown, and tell a great deal about their motives.

Please listen to the tone of the attacks and contrast that with the tone of Julie's message. One seeks to uplift and encourage people to get closer to God, be more obedient to Gospel principles and prepare according to Church leaders' inspired guidance. The other bears the spirit of malice, negativity, and seeks to destroy and hurt others. By their fruits you shall know them.

As I'm sure everyone can gather from this post, I am a close friend of Julie's. I could go into much more in defending her from false accusations and exposing these two on a very personal level for who they are. My goal is not to be contentious, but rather to set the record straight. Please take it from someone that has known Julie for over 20 years that she is true to her word. Again, contrast that with total strangers on the internet that neither know her nor have read her books.

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iamse7en
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by iamse7en »

The book is bad and mostly a waste of time, and reading this review which feels as long as the book is also a waste of time. I can't believe you spent that much time writing this up. Yikes.

Lizzy60
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Lizzy60 »

iamse7en wrote:The book is bad and mostly a waste of time, and reading this review which feels as long as the book is also a waste of time. I can't believe you spent that much time writing this up. Yikes.
Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. I can't believe someone spent that much effort to go through Julie's posts on AVOW, and compile all this. All because he doesn't believe her. There may be some other motive......

deep water
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by deep water »

The way I look at things like this is through some of JS words. He said that if you don't attain enough knowledge in this life you will be taken captive by some unseen force in the next life. So when people die do they automatically receive a clear picture of true things, or do they perceive things they see through the same eyes they had before they passed over? To me the only logical thing would be that they see things through the eyes (understanding) they had while living. This accounts for all the differences and all the similarities found in all those experiences they have had. We have the truth given by true Prophets who have been tutored by the HG. Their words may not be as glamorous as someones NDE, but you know you are getting the straight and narrow stuff. The lord has vouched for them. Read your scriptures.
When the savior ask his apostles "who do you think that I am" Peter said "you are the Christ". Christ said that he did not learn that through man, but the HG had taught him that. Peter was in the company of the teacher. Yet he had to have the HG tell him in order for him to know that truth. Why go to any other source and trust it?

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durangout
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by durangout »

While many of the same read flags waved at me, I don't agree with all of your points, but overall yes you are right. JR's account is a load of steaming bovine reconstituted alfalfa. Whew! you put a lot of effort into this...it surprises me that you missed a couple obvious red flaggs that by which you can quickly dissmiss everything she has to say.

You mention Mills' radio show. Have you ever wondered why he gave her 3, full 3-hr shows to proimote her story? In the 20+ yers I've been listening to him he's never done that. I'd bet it was paid programing, an infomercial if you will. Thoughts?

Her 3rd apprearance on his show really gave her away. She backtracked, contraditcted herself and had to have Mills prompt and rescue her a few times.
Last edited by durangout on December 24th, 2014, 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

TimeToPrepare
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by TimeToPrepare »

No paid promotions for any of her books. There has been literally no money paid for advertising in any way shape or form. In fact, it was only after a series of conversations over a period of months that Julie reluctantly agreed to appear on the Mills Crenshaw show. She is very wary of what she has published being treated lightly or "cast before swine."

Your post speculating in a negative way and quite falsely is one reason I have chosen to post here. There are just so many false statements being made on this forum.

As I previously mentioned, Julie's record is true to her experience. If it is inaccurate, it is not through any desire on her part to mislead or fabricate anything. It is for each of you to determine for yourselves what value it is and what truths it contains. By the fruit it has born thus far, I believe it is nothing short of inspired communication. I have seen it help people strengthen their testimonies, recommit themselves to the gospel, return to church in cases of inactivity, and further study the scriptures and seek answers for themselves. I know of literally hundreds of people that have reached out to Julie with similar experiences that have witnessed similar scenes. To witness this first hand through knowing her has been nothing short of amazing. I would encourage everyone to take the message to heart - prepare both spiritually and temporally by drawing closer to Christ and the teachings of his Prophet and Church leaders.

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durangout
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by durangout »

TimeToPrepare wrote:No paid promotions for any of her books. There has been literally no money paid for advertising in any way shape or form. In fact, it was only after a series of conversations over a period of months that Julie reluctantly agreed to appear on the Mills Crenshaw show. She is very wary of what she has published being treated lightly or "cast before swine."

Your post speculating in a negative way and quite falsely is one reason I have chosen to post here. There are just so many false statements being made on this forum.

As I previously mentioned, Julie's record is true to her experience. If it is inaccurate, it is not through any desire on her part to mislead or fabricate anything. It is for each of you to determine for yourselves what value it is and what truths it contains. By the fruit it has born thus far, I believe it is nothing short of inspired communication. I have seen it help people strengthen their testimonies, recommit themselves to the gospel, return to church in cases of inactivity, and further study the scriptures and seek answers for themselves. I know of literally hundreds of people that have reached out to Julie with similar experiences that have witnessed similar scenes. To witness this first hand through knowing her has been nothing short of amazing. I would encourage everyone to take the message to heart - prepare both spiritually and temporally by drawing closer to Christ and the teachings of his Prophet and Church leaders.
This appreas to be JR responding? Why don't you just use your real name? You would have more credibility if you did. If this isn't JR, then how do you know there was no paid promotion on KTKK?

TimeToPrepare
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by TimeToPrepare »

As i mentioned, I am a close friend to Julie. I have known her for over 20 years, and we talk regularly about what is going on with her books, appearances, etc.

My purpose is to correct easily identifiable falsehoods in this thread. I don't wish to debate, argue, contend, or criticize others - only to correct falsehoods and speculation that I know are not true. As previously stated, Julie's experiences are genuine. Whether others choose to agree with them or not is up to each individual and a personal decision that I respect. So, you won't find me arguing about doctrine, authority etc. You won't find me trying to dissect the things that seek to prove certain things about what she has published. I see that as a creating bad energy and feeding the spirit of contention. That is not in harmony with her as a person or her message nor is it worth my time. Knowing Julie the way I do, it is hard for me see blatant falsehoods about her go uncorrected. That is why I have posted what I have.
Last edited by TimeToPrepare on December 24th, 2014, 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sarah
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Re: My Review of Julie Rowe's "A Greater Tomorrow"

Post by Sarah »

durangout wrote:
TimeToPrepare wrote:No paid promotions for any of her books. There has been literally no money paid for advertising in any way shape or form. In fact, it was only after a series of conversations over a period of months that Julie reluctantly agreed to appear on the Mills Crenshaw show. She is very wary of what she has published being treated lightly or "cast before swine."

Your post speculating in a negative way and quite falsely is one reason I have chosen to post here. There are just so many false statements being made on this forum.

As I previously mentioned, Julie's record is true to her experience. If it is inaccurate, it is not through any desire on her part to mislead or fabricate anything. It is for each of you to determine for yourselves what value it is and what truths it contains. By the fruit it has born thus far, I believe it is nothing short of inspired communication. I have seen it help people strengthen their testimonies, recommit themselves to the gospel, return to church in cases of inactivity, and further study the scriptures and seek answers for themselves. I know of literally hundreds of people that have reached out to Julie with similar experiences that have witnessed similar scenes. To witness this first hand through knowing her has been nothing short of amazing. I would encourage everyone to take the message to heart - prepare both spiritually and temporally by drawing closer to Christ and the teachings of his Prophet and Church leaders.
This appreas to be JR responding? Why don't you just use your real name? You would have more credibility if you did. If this isn't JR, then how do you know there was no paid promotion on KTKK?
You are dead on. I was thinking after I read TimetoPrepare's first few posts that it was really Julie or someone helping her. She knew about the details of a private conversation I had with Julie over private messaging. I don't care how close of a "friend" you are, you don't read the other person's private messages. She has been doing the same thing on the AVOW forum, posing as other random members, saying wonderful things about her books etc.

Thanks for the tips about the Mills Crenshaw show. It was shortly after Onstag sent his findings to him that he got the threat letter.

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