Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

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BrotherOfMahonri
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Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:39 pm

Book:
Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

PDF:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6t-rQ ... VfYVU/view

So far just the introduction and first portions of the book ring soundly to my heart. Anyone else read this or reading it?
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

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BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:41 pm

If we have the truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed. (President J. Reuben Clark)
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:43 pm

Convince us of our errors of Doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the Word of God and we will ever be grateful for the information and you will ever have the pleasing reflections that you have been instruments in the hands of God of redeeming your fellow beings. (Orson Pratt, “The Seer,” p. 15.)
[t]he man who cannot listen to an argument which opposes his views

either has a weak position or is a weak defender of it. No opinion

that cannot stand discussion or criticism is worth holding. And it has

been wisely said that the man who knows only half of any question is

worse off than the man who knows nothing of it. He is not only one-
sided but his partisanship soon turns him into an intolerant and a

fanatic. In general it is true that nothing which cannot stand up under

discussion or criticism is worth defending. (James E. Talmage

Improvement Era, Jan 1920, p. 204)
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:44 pm

I admire men and women who have developed the questioning spirit,

who are unafraid of new ideas and stepping stones to progress. We

should, of course, respect the opinions of others, but we should also

be unafraid to dissent - if we are informed. Thoughts and expressions

compete in the marketplace of thought, and in that competition truth

emerges triumphant. Only error fears freedom of expression. This

free exchange of ideas is not to be deplored as long as men and

women remain humble and teachable. Neither fear of consequence

nor any kind of coercion should ever be used to secure uniformity of

thought in the church. People should express their problems and

opinions and be unafraid to think without fear of ill consequences.

We must preserve freedom of the mind in the church and resist all

efforts to suppress it. (Hugh B. Brown, counselor in First Presidency,

Speech at BYU, March 29, 1958.)
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:46 pm

...while I believe all that God has revealed, I am not quite sure that I

understand what he has revealed, and the fact that he has promised

further revelation is to me a challenge to keep an open mind and be

prepared to follow wherever my search for truth may lead....We have

been blessed with much knowledge by revelation from God which, in

some part, the world lacks. But there is an incomprehensibly greater

part of truth which we must yet discover. Our revealed truth should

leave us stricken with the knowledge of how little we really know. It

should never lead to an emotional arrogance based upon a false

assumption that we somehow have all the answers--that we in fact

have a corner on truth....Preserve...the freedom of your mind in

education and in religion, and be unafraid to express your thoughts

and to insist upon your right to examine every proposition. We are

not so much concerned with whether your thoughts are orthodox or

heterodox as we are that you shall have thoughts. (Hugh B. Brown,

BYU May 13, 1969 address, “An Eternal Quest: Freedom of the

Mind.” )
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

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Robin Hood
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:48 pm

Most books, even very poor ones, have some redeeming features.
This book contradicts that rule.

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:55 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Most books, even very poor ones, have some redeeming features.
This book contradicts that rule.
Care to elaborate? Ironic that your point is exactly the first chapter - seemingly afraid to take any alternative viewpoint makes us vulnerable to erring in our seeking for the truth. If there are falsehoods, point them out - as for me and it seems past LDS leaders, I'm unafraid to seek out a witness of truth by considering opposing points of view - that is a gospel restored doctrine through and through.
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

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Robin Hood
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Robin Hood » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:09 pm

BrotherOfMahonri wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Most books, even very poor ones, have some redeeming features.
This book contradicts that rule.
Care to elaborate? Ironic that your point is exactly the first chapter - seemingly afraid to take any alternative viewpoint makes us vulnerable to erring in our seeking for the truth. If there are falsehoods, point them out - as for me and it seems past LDS leaders, I'm unafraid to seek out a witness of truth by considering opposing points of view - that is a gospel restored doctrine through and through.
I honestly can't be bothered.
I regret wasting so much time reading the darn thing.

BrotherOfMahonri
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby BrotherOfMahonri » Sun Jan 24, 2016 3:31 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
BrotherOfMahonri wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Most books, even very poor ones, have some redeeming features.
This book contradicts that rule.
Care to elaborate? Ironic that your point is exactly the first chapter - seemingly afraid to take any alternative viewpoint makes us vulnerable to erring in our seeking for the truth. If there are falsehoods, point them out - as for me and it seems past LDS leaders, I'm unafraid to seek out a witness of truth by considering opposing points of view - that is a gospel restored doctrine through and through.
I honestly can't be bothered.
I regret wasting so much time reading the darn thing.
Well, if you did read it - then you at least have the counter perspective which can help you find greater truth, even a witness of truth. :D
"We ought to obey God rather than men." -the Apostle Peter, Acts 5:29

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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Oursacredheritage » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:35 pm

BrotherOfMahonri, I have skimmed through this book and now I'm curious what your take is since you mentioned that you only read the first couple chapters. I'm finding it a little too Anti-Mormon in my opinion. Your thoughts?
Thomas S. Monson " Political machinations (a scheming design intended to accomplish some usually evil end) ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden and deprived of opportunity.

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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Stahura » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:43 pm

I love the quotes you posted, which all happen to be from General Authorities. Unfortunately, members like to ignore quotes like those. I don't know why they don't want to believe that General Authorities have said such things.
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby zionminded » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:31 pm

(edited)

I read it all. Here's my 2 cents. First its a very good review of the modern-day LDS Church. Its a conservative view point, most of which (not all) I agree with. The points Mr Smith makes are strong, and very good, for the most part. I think any objective view of the LDS Church could use this dialog. He certainly takes aim at the hardened boundaries and false beliefs that DO exist. He correctly points out how scriptures and others point out the state of the LDS Church in a sort of Denver Snuffer way, with some differences. In general I enjoyed it, and recommend it. Just know, I don't agree with it all, but most of it. Enjoy!
Last edited by zionminded on Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oursacredheritage
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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Oursacredheritage » Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:41 pm

I must say I'm a little torn, on the one hand I do feel that the questioning spirit has been a little stifled in modern mormonism (and I stress a little)while on the other side I do not believe that the church and its leaders have strayed so much from the truth as this book suggests. While It is inevitable that the doctrines of men will creep into any organization over a given number of years on certain subjects I do not think it has been to the extent that this work suggests. I think the question has to be asked is Jesus Christ the head of this church or not? If the answer is yes then I think we should be a little more lenient to the brethren in their decisions and seek to understand them as opposed to trying to debunk them. (doubt your doubt's before you doubt your faith) I have found multiple times where something has seemed very convincing to doubt my faith only to find out in further research that there was a perfectly good explanation for the seemingly contradiction that was presented. In other words take it with a grain of salt before you make your final decision. On the other hand if you feel the answer is no that Christ is no longer the head of this church then I would suggest that you move on and perhaps build your own faith as you see fit instead of tearing down others.
Thomas S. Monson " Political machinations (a scheming design intended to accomplish some usually evil end) ruin the stability of nations, despots grasp for power, and segments of society seem forever downtrodden and deprived of opportunity.

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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Rayannespottedbull » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:08 am

I read charity never faileth scripture the other day in it I was reminded that those who have charity believeth in TRUTH .
Joseph smith said section123:
For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it--
13 Therefore, that we should waste and wear out our lives in bringing to light all the hidden things of darkness, wherein we know them; and they are truly manifest from heaven--

I love this book , I loved that it shed more truth I hate the lds churches attempts to deny its members all knowledge. So I can attain correct principles what ever they may be , to govern myself better. The Church is the great stumbling block to true knowledge.. this is not God was !
I was once handling unrighteousness priesthood and after I went into my car crying and screaming at the Lord, asking him what is this! And a voice as clear as day said, I GIVE THEM THEIR FULL AGENCY for THEIR FULL CONDEMNATION! Gotcha I said! Us not valuing truth is like being the woman and children being thrown in the fire ALma and Amulek . But in a bad way.
I don't go to church any more.. for this reason
2thessalonians

But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.
4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.
5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
The LOrd has come among his own and we have received him not ..

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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Rayannespottedbull » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:23 am

In the charity scripture it says ( we believeth truth, I love this book it gives truth ! A truth many members are seeking , because the church doesn't exactly open this up in our Sunday school manuals. Instead they are upset when we question.

[39] In true Priesthood, men–



do not work “in darkness”. (v. 23)
“persuade all men to repentance.” (v. 27)
“have charity” and “not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.”
(v. 30)

“labor for Zion.” (not money) (v. 31)
“doeth that which is good among the children of men.” (v. 33)
“doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men.” (v. 33)
work by the power of God and revelation. (v. 13)
Kraut priesthood vol 1

The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “All the prophets had the Melchizedek Priesthood and were ordained by God himself.” (TPJS, p. 181) Christ was very well acquainted with his Father and would need the Higher Priesthood to begin his ministry, and he, too, would receive it directly from God.
Based on these things alone the church is about to fall.. for we deny The power of God for almost all our leader function within priestcraft and none have priesthood authority from God. Like Joseph said .

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Re: Teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of Men: Tradition in Modern Mormonism - Robert Smith

Postby Arelius » Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:53 am

This book is one of two books that has completely changed my life.


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