Need your opinions (nicely please!)

[heartsongs]

Hello All,

I am new to the LDS Freedom Forum. From time to time I have read your posts with enthusiasm, and finally decided I would join in on the conversations. I find myself in a dilemma. I am stuck on the voting issue, and need some opinions. Mind you now, I am looking for opinions, not criticism (if I want criticism, I can go ask the world, and not fellow saints. So, please bare that in mind). So here is my problem: I don't feel like there is anyone I should or can vote for. There, I finally said it! I am a true blue Ron Paul fan because of his upholding the U.S. Constitution consistently as what our Prophets, the Book of Mormon and even the Plan of Salvation states we should do. I mean come on, isn't that what the War in Heaven was all about? The "freedom" to choose? Isn't that what the Savior suffered for in the Garden and died on a cross for; "freedom?" If it was that important then, enough to fight and die for, then surely it is still that important today. "Free agency" is central and paramount to the Plan of Salvation. Satan's plan was to "force" every man back to heaven. I have found after much research, reading, watching of debates and contemplating that none of the candidates we have to choose from fit this ticket of upholding "Freedom." Not Mitt Romney, not President Obama, not Gary Johnson. So, hence my dilemma, for there is no one left to choose from. Prophet Ezra Taft Benson stated that you CANNOT choose the lesser of two evils for it is still choosing and voting for evil, and that if we were troubled to read Mosiah 29, and after that, we should know the kind of candidate we should elect to office. Well, I have done all that and more, and to me, based on my research etc. etc.....none available truly uphold freedom. So, how can I vote for anyone? But, we have a responsibility to vote! This is not about picking a person who can beat our current president because he is bad. If you have someone in office who does not support the Constitution, then they are "all" bad. YOU NEVER CHECK YOUR RELIGION at the door as was recently stated by Elder Holland. Sometimes you have to stand for what is right even when you stand alone. Isn't that what the prophets tell us? Never compromise! Do what is right let the consequence follow. I can't cast my vote based on that man is a Mormon with a temple recommend, or that man is handsome or that man gives a good speech, but, what the scriptures and Prophets say is the kind of person we should elect, for our Father in Heaven has said as well as King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon that our Father in Heaven would that we should have no "King" over us for a king leads their people to commit sin, but, that we should govern ourselves. Well, you cannot do that if the government is involved in everything that they should not be involved in. So, this is my dilemma: How can I vote in lieu of all of this, and what should I do????
I'm feeling very frustrated. I want very much to do what is right, and what my Father in Heaven would want.

Let the opinions begin.........

[Thomas]

Welcome to the club. I'm thinking of a write in vote, maybe for my Bishop, who is a good man.

[hopeNlove]

I understand where you are coming from. Sounds like you have studied it out in your mind as much as possible and it never hurts to talk it over with other people. Since you have probably read many of the posts here that bring up Ron Paul- which I found very informative- I suggest to look up as much information on the other candidates to see how you feel about their agenda.

Yes, we all have been given free agency, yet the Lord has asked us to live a certain way. Yes, there are those that live in the ways of the world instead, but the Lord always kept saying "follow me." The Lord also told the woman who was caught in adultery to "Go and Sin No More!" And he also threw the money changers out of the Temple..and many more examples are in the scriptures. I understand many people have differing views on how the Constitution should be interpreted and things, which is causing a lot of issues... I am for the opportunity to vote for certain laws in my state; like drug laws and such.. everyone still has their agency to do drugs( there sure are plenty who do and I know many of them on a different forum, and they are not being stopped or arrested....and all of them did drugs and drank alcohol when they were in high school which made them Under-age!!) People will always have their agency, just because some of us want to have laws that govern certain things, doesn't make that wrong. I really hope that didn't come off as aggressive....


Sometimes the Lord does answer our prayers through other people in different ways, like talking, or some kind of service etc....And
I am not insinuating you haven't mightily prayed about this.....in any case, my suggestion is to continue praying. Continue asking for you to be directed in your search for information, and so forth to guide you to who He would have you vote for and ask about certain specific ones you feel you want to discuss with the Lord.

[francisco.colaco]

heartsongs,

I have the same problem back in Portugal when viting. I have decided next time, unless I find someone serious, I'll vote, but vote blank.

[etnalf]

I do believe that the Lord has given us some very good instructions on making these kind of decisions. He told us to study it out in our mind, then ask if it be right after we have made the decision. It's kind of like the promise in Moroni 10. We study, and then we pray. If we have faith that the Lord will give us an answer, we will receive an answer. We have been promised that through the Holy Ghost we can know the truth of all things.

[jbalm]

A single vote is statistically meaningless. The only real lasting effect it will have is on yourself. Choose accordingly - vote your conscience.

[Original_Intent]

My wife is going to write in Ron Paul. I may do that, also, but believe in Utah that write-in votes are not even counted unless there are enough of them to win, otherwise they are simply reported as "Other". Which I suppose does not matter that much. I have been leaning towards Virgil Goode, the Constitution Party candidate. He isn;t perfect, either, but I feel he is good enough to qualify as a good, honest and wise candidate - not a "lesser of two evils". He has had some bad votes in the past, such as support of the Patriot Act, but he at least acknowledges that as a mistake and says he no longer supports it.

I'll admit though, I am starting to feel that I will follow my wife's lead and write-in Ron Paul, recorded or not.

[uglypitbull]

heartsongs...I am also in the same predicament as you. I might abstain from voting for the office of President, but still vote on the local issues and candidates. I believe you are correct in that there are no qualified candidates running for President.

[EmmaLee]

...there are no qualified candidates running for President.

Just one more evidence we are living in a time which is just like the "days of Noah", when it is impossible to actually choose the right because none of the choices are right. And we know what happened to those people....

As for finding out what Heavenly Father wants us to do - only one way to do that....

[SmallFarm]

heartsongs...I am also in the same predicament as you. I might abstain from voting for the office of President, but still vote on the local issues and candidates. I believe you are correct in that there are no qualified candidates running for President.

I am considering going one step further and writing, in big capital letters, the word PROTEST where the space is given for a write in candidate.

[shadow]

I'll admit though, I am starting to feel that I will follow my wife's lead and write-in Ron Paul, recorded or not.

If you're going to write in someone who isn't even running why not write in Elder Oaks? Why settle for less? Surely of all the people who aren't running there are more worthy and qualified people than RP.

[SmallFarm]

I'll admit though, I am starting to feel that I will follow my wife's lead and write-in Ron Paul, recorded or not.

If you're going to write in someone who isn't even running why not write in Elder Oaks? Why settle for less? Surely of all the people who aren't running there are more worthy and qualified people than RP.

When has Elder Oaks expressed interest in becoming president of the united states of America? :-\

[shadow]

When has Elder Oaks expressed interest in becoming president of the united states of America? :-\

I'm sure if he won the election he'd accept the call to serve. Either way Oaks and Paul are not running. I realize RP may still be accepting donations, but he won't be on the ballot.

[ajax]

I voted in the primary. That person is no longer in the race. I will not be voting for anybody else.

[heartsongs]

Thank-you all for your kindly opinions. It is much appreciated! I can't figure out how to respond to an individual post, if that is even possible (lol, forgive my "newness"), or if you just click the "quick reply" and simply post. Anyhow, where I live we vote electronically and cannot write in another person, if there is a space denoted for "other," honestly, I can't remember, but, I will have to check into that. I voted in the primary, but, the candidate I voted for is no longer on the ballot. As for the thinking, pondering, studying, reading etc....I have about done that to death. As for the praying...well I have done that too. I guess I will just have to keep praying and wait for my answer, or, maybe I need to change the questions I'm asking. In the meantime, it is nice to be a part of your forum and thanks again for your replies.

P.S. If any of you have any suggestions on how to reply to the posts better, please feel free to let me know. I can use all the help I can get. (ha ha ha)

[Andrew52]

A third-party Presidential vote this year is foolish and irresponsible.
Start with the most popular, and yet sadly most foolish and Biblically absurd argument: "lesser of two evils."

It doesn't matter who your candidate is! He is at best a redeemed and finite sinner. He is limited intellectually, spiritually, morally, and dynamically. He will not always know the right thing to do nor the right way to do it. Even when he does know, he will not always do it. Even when he tries, he will not always succeed. So if you're going to think this through like a Christian, you must make your decision on some other basis. You must never make this argument.

I don't know if there has ever been a more stark nor consequential choice in my lifetime, even more so than 2008. One candidate, Mitt Romney, is a pro-life convert — which we like and want to encourage, right? — and he picked an even more ardently and winsomely pro-life running-mate. The other, Barack Obama, never met an unborn child he wouldn't just as soon see dead, and that even in the most gruesome way imaginable. Obama thinks spreading abortion is the most important thing he can do. As a Christian, I agree with the pro-life position, and I abominate Obama's position. If I do not actively help the one viable pro-life ticket, I help the other pro-abortion ticket. It is just as simple as that. I've read hundreds of words from third-partyers. While I share many of their goals, I really think it's all about them, and not the issues that they are failing to support. It's about making themselves feel better about themselves, in the name of "conscience." Me? I'll feel better if I keep that monstrous, pro-infanticide position out of the White House. That suits my conscience just fine. The "message" I want to send is that the abortion issue is critical in a Presidential election. I'll support a man who is less than my ideal, because he's basically on the right side of the life question. Otherwise, if I vote for a non-player the only "message" I send is "Don't worry about me. I'm irrelevant. I won't help the pro-lifer, and I won't hinder the pro-deather. Ignore me."

A Blog by Dan Phillip

[freedomforall]

Hello All,

I am new to the LDS Freedom Forum. From time to time I have read your posts with enthusiasm, and finally decided I would join in on the conversations. I find myself in a dilemma. I am stuck on the voting issue, and need some opinions. Mind you now, I am looking for opinions, not criticism (if I want criticism, I can go ask the world, and not fellow saints. So, please bare that in mind). So here is my problem: I don't feel like there is anyone I should or can vote for. There, I finally said it! I am a true blue Ron Paul fan because of his upholding the U.S. Constitution consistently as what our Prophets, the Book of Mormon and even the Plan of Salvation states we should do. I mean come on, isn't that what the War in Heaven was all about? The "freedom" to choose? Isn't that what the Savior suffered for in the Garden and died on a cross for; "freedom?" If it was that important then, enough to fight and die for, then surely it is still that important today. "Free agency" is central and paramount to the Plan of Salvation. Satan's plan was to "force" every man back to heaven. I have found after much research, reading, watching of debates and contemplating that none of the candidates we have to choose from fit this ticket of upholding "Freedom." Not Mitt Romney, not President Obama, not Gary Johnson. So, hence my dilemma, for there is no one left to choose from. Prophet Ezra Taft Benson stated that you CANNOT choose the lesser of two evils for it is still choosing and voting for evil, and that if we were troubled to read Mosiah 29, and after that, we should know the kind of candidate we should elect to office. Well, I have done all that and more, and to me, based on my research etc. etc.....none available truly uphold freedom. So, how can I vote for anyone? But, we have a responsibility to vote! This is not about picking a person who can beat our current president because he is bad. If you have someone in office who does not support the Constitution, then they are "all" bad. YOU NEVER CHECK YOUR RELIGION at the door as was recently stated by Elder Holland. Sometimes you have to stand for what is right even when you stand alone. Isn't that what the prophets tell us? Never compromise! Do what is right let the consequence follow. I can't cast my vote based on that man is a Mormon with a temple recommend, or that man is handsome or that man gives a good speech, but, what the scriptures and Prophets say is the kind of person we should elect, for our Father in Heaven has said as well as King Benjamin in the Book of Mormon that our Father in Heaven would that we should have no "King" over us for a king leads their people to commit sin, but, that we should govern ourselves. Well, you cannot do that if the government is involved in everything that they should not be involved in. So, this is my dilemma: How can I vote in lieu of all of this, and what should I do????
I'm feeling very frustrated. I want very much to do what is right, and what my Father in Heaven would want.

Let the opinions begin.........

This post is outstanding and you stick by it. You show wisdom in your words. If your vote stands alone, so be it. Vote for RIGHT and let God handle the evil. Ours is the test in voting the way that will please God.

Consider the following also:

I do believe that the Lord has given us some very good instructions on making these kind of decisions. He told us to study it out in our mind, then ask if it be right after we have made the decision. It's kind of like the promise in Moroni 10. We study, and then we pray. If we have faith that the Lord will give us an answer, we will receive an answer. We have been promised that through the Holy Ghost we can know the truth of all things.

Upon doing these things you cannot go wrong. Paying attention to precepts of men may lead you in the wrong direction.

[SpeedRacer]

You should vote for Mitt Romney.

Ignore the nay sayers. Listen to the people who know him, knew him, and had him as a bishop and stake president. He is a wonderful caring serving man. I don't know how he can serve his fellow man to the extent he has and not be a seeker of Christ.

As to his pro-life conversion, you have to look at the history. He had a misguided position. He felt that pro-choice meant just that. He did not understand that pro-choice should read pro-abortion, and pro-life should read you are responsible for your actions. He learned that as he served as governer of Mass and saw the legislation that was pro-choice.

Our constitution is a good as dead if our country is not solvent. There are no other men running on any ticket who understand how to run a profit than Mitt Romney. He stands alone here. You may contend that Ron Paul's dedication to closing the federal government, and cutting defense back to the point where we can defend our borders only will preserve our solvency, but the platform is a falacy and very naive. It may, in the short term, eliminate our debt and increase personal freedom, but the world is no longer righteous. The law must be hedged when the people fall into moral depotism. We must responsibly eliminate our debt, and reduce government in an orderly fashion. This is what Mitt Romney is proposing. He is dealing with the facts. One of them is he may have to contend with a democratic senate that will undermine him at every turn, and refuse to pass a bill that reduces government spending. This will mean he will have to work with the house to create compromise bills. I know this kills me too, but it is the responsible thing to do.

Were we to get a conservative congress out of this election as well as Mitt as president, our country would be put back on track to getting out of the dire situation we are in.

The sad part is that this election will come down to a few voters in a few counties in a few states. That is the reality. If there are enough people who are not aware of what Mr. Romney is because they refuse to see, then we get four more years of the Gadiantons. The country will not survive it.

[freedomforall]

You should vote for Mitt Romney.

Ignore the nay sayers. Listen to the people who know him, knew him, and had him as a bishop and stake president. He is a wonderful caring serving man. I don't know how he can serve his fellow man to the extent he has and not be a seeker of Christ.

As to his pro-life conversion, you have to look at the history. He had a misguided position. He felt that pro-choice meant just that. He did not understand that pro-choice should read pro-abortion, and pro-life should read you are responsible for your actions. He learned that as he served as governer of Mass and saw the legislation that was pro-choice.

Our constitution is a good as dead if our country is not solvent. There are no other men running on any ticket who understand how to run a profit than Mitt Romney. He stands alone here. You may contend that Ron Paul's dedication to closing the federal government, and cutting defense back to the point where we can defend our borders only will preserve our solvency, but the platform is a falacy and very naive. It may, in the short term, eliminate our debt and increase personal freedom, but the world is no longer righteous. The law must be hedged when the people fall into moral depotism. We must responsibly eliminate our debt, and reduce government in an orderly fashion. This is what Mitt Romney is proposing. He is dealing with the facts. One of them is he may have to contend with a democratic senate that will undermine him at every turn, and refuse to pass a bill that reduces government spending. This will mean he will have to work with the house to create compromise bills. I know this kills me too, but it is the responsible thing to do.

Were we to get a conservative congress out of this election as well as Mitt as president, our country would be put back on track to getting out of the dire situation we are in.

The sad part is that this election will come down to a few voters in a few counties in a few states. That is the reality. If there are enough people who are not aware of what Mr. Romney is because they refuse to see, then we get four more years of the Gadiantons. The country will not survive it.

After gaining confirmation from the Lord that is. If Mitt has repented of all his past errors God will confirm it.

[SpeedRacer]

He is running for president, not prophet.

[freedomforall]

He is running for president, not prophet.

President of what? NWO? Know Your Constitution Society? How to perform church callings group learning? How to flip-flop when in a pinch?
Point is we must know that the person we vote for stands for freedom and liberty even under pressure.

I am the President so:

Go Ahead, One More Turn.jpg (37.12 KiB) Viewed 2959 times

Go Ahead! One More Turn

[ajax]

Mitt is pro-life, except when it comes to foreigners from the Middle East. Mitt can beat the war drums with the best of 'em. Pro-life. Pfft.

Vote your conscience, whether it's Mitt, Barak or some other 3rd party. "Anyone who says differently is selling something"

btw- to those who think Mitt can turn this around, there a two MAJOR obstacles -- WAR and MONETARY POLICY. Mitt(like Barak) seems content with the status quo on both counts. "We're doomed"(C-3PO)

[sbsion]

if you understand the secret combinations, you'd KNOW, there's no winner but the Feds/NWO, we are all cannon fodder, "...as in the days of Noah, ONLY a cleanse will do the good Father wants, but, voting your heart IS a winner, and by which ye shall be judged, don't worry about who is president

[durangout]

I feel your pain or rather your frustration comesthrough clearly in your post. But look, this is really not that hard of a decison and you shouldn't be losing sleep over it.

None ofthe candidate are perfect or close to for that matter. In fact, I'd say none of them are "right " for the job--not BHO, not MR not Rosanne Barr not Gary Johnson or whoever else. If anyone say their candidate is they are deluded, lying or simply intellectually dishonest. Calling "voting for the lesser of two evils" evil is really a non sequiter b/c all of the candidates are flawed.

OK, next thg: writting in a candidate who isn't even running is...well I'm finding it hard to come up with the right word. Childish,I guess. It's strictly an emotional response and clearly not the correct answer to your dilema either.

so, I'd suggest asking yoruself one question. Who will do the most good for the US? See? The anser is very simple now: Not O, not Rosanne, not Gary Johnson, RP isn't running (voting for him is a cowardly decision which aleviates the person from having to MAKE a decsion)--anyother non-viable option candidates you would like to list--not them either. The fact that they can't run effective campaignsshows they don't have the ability to run the country. May MR win and slow the death spiral that awaits us under BHO.

[ajax]

Anybody who says that you are a coward and childish for doing anything different, should be flatly ignored.

Not voting is a viable option as well.