pornography started this ;)

[megara]

Hey - so I'm a 46 yr old with a hubby and 6 kids. BIC Utahn. I subbed Seminary for years - I've taught SS many times, gospel doctrine, essentials, temple prep, etc. My 2nd oldest son struggled with pornography and I cannot begin to explain where that journey has led our family. He went through so much with bishops, 12 step groups, strange doctrines being taught by "missionaries", etc. Basically, what ended up happening, is he found Christ, and it was definitely not through a bishop or group. And then even after he knew he was forgiven and was so excited about his relationship with the Savior, and his understanding of things, he'd still get the smackdown from a bishop, told he has to "be clean" for 6 months before he can serve a mission, still can't have a calling, etc. Basically felt there's no place at church for him. Can't qualify. He'd come home so dejected and I'd tell him, "This is between you and God." So instead of continuing with the shame and guilt and suicidal self hatred, he began searching and reading everything on the planet. And sharing it with me and my other son. It's been very interesting. He's pretty much Buddhist now - although he doesn't really claim a label. I used to think I'd be so upset if a child "went astray" but I feel like everything's okay. I feel like his search and journey are honest and God knows him and we've all learned so much, such a bigger picture. Finding Phil McLemore's articles connecting eastern teachings and mormonism were groundbreaking for me. Of course in with all this enlightenment reading, we've also been reading John Pontius, Snuffer, Tim Malone, Rock Waterman, and also listening to lots of Mormon Stories podcasts. So yeah, our minds and hearts are full and we are trying to digest so much. I'm not sure of some things anymore. But I also feel like I understand why I've had some of the struggles I've had. I am trying to reframe, reprocess, and reevaluate everything. I also am becoming a bit of a crusader for openness from the family level on up. I have a hard time with the fear-based reactions to people that express questions or doubts. It's always a choice between fear or love. Anyway, that's kinda where I am....namaste and shalom ;)

[TZONE]

Awesome story Welcome.

[FoxMammaWisdom]

That's one of the most entertaining intros I've seen here on the forum, lol. I look forward to more posts!

Jules

[kathedralegs]

Welcome! In a sense my spiritual upheaval and reeducation started with the pain of watching my youngest leave the church after many painful years of being honest about issues with porn and the subsequent judgments that came from peers and leaders. I look forward to the day that he will find peace but for the time being he has pushed all religious thought away with both hands. That discomfort and desire to help him allowed the Lord to begin the process of tearing down my traditions. My love for my son has grown so much and he feels it more than ever because he knows I value him because he IS valuable and not because of any action or lack there of on his part. I look forward to more posts from you Megara!

[survivaldealer]

I too, know people whose lives have been damaged by Bishops that were ignorant. When I was a teenager, one of my friends from a 2 religion family came to church dressed more casual than the Bishop thought appropriate. He told the teenager to go home and never come back unless in a white shirt, tie, and slacks. He never came back. Ever. That was over 40 years ago.

A single mother in Phoenix went to her bishop to get help with an auto repair. She worked 6 days a week. Five full days and a half on Saturday. The Bishop told her that a car was a luxury and to ride the bus. She did and it took 2 hours in the morning and another 2 hours after work. This was time that could have been spent with her children. Her Bishop was a total pig. An idiot. A waste of human flesh.

However, the search for truth has led you and your son here as well as other good places. The Buddhists have some truth. But know that there is only one God. Not 2 and not 6. Sometimes people are so incredibly stupid, I wonder why God does not just smoke them into a crisp and be done with them. But where do you draw the line. We all have imperfections of one sort or another.

The Church is far too lax in their standards for Bishops. Many do not even have a testimony. Some are so stupid that they dare not make a mistake. Like in the case of your son. His Bishop was a coward, unable to stand up for what is right. Unable or not worthy to receive inspiration in the matter. Perhaps his wife tells him what to do. Maybe he was punishing your son for his own sexual deviance.

It really doesn't matter. You are on a quest for truth. Just because one man or even several are having their own battle with truth does not mean the doctrine is flawed. See it for what it is and move on. If more people would investigate other religions, they may be better prepared to recognize truth when they see it.

I have investigated other religions. They all have their favorable points, but none have the big picture, except LDS. There are a lot of members that are in positions of authority that make mistakes. Big ones. They will account for them one day. Just make sure that you are on the right track and help those you love to find the truth they are seeking, also.

It's difficult to say which sin is worse: looking at a naked woman with lust, or discouraging an eager young man from finding God. Put things in proper perspective and talk with God. He hears you. He loves you. He will help you.

[davedan]

I have found that you find God though repentance.

probably not wise to send a young man still addicted to porn and actively masterbating on a mission. But if he can forsake the sin and demonstrate some self control for 6 month period then he can serve.

Does it make sense for a young man to teaching repentance and committing people to keep laws of morality and self-control when he himself has not repented and is not keeping those standards of virtue himself?

Seeking another religion instead of dealing with our sins is an unfortunate and common response. That is why false religion is so alluring. False religion gives a person the false idea of a relationship with God without expectations.

Well the true God cannot look at sin with the least degree of allowance. Obedience yields blessings and sin brings painful consequences. We do not have to be perfect, as yet, but we are expected to live up to God's minimum standards and "deny ourselves of all ungodliness" only then we can be perfected in Christ.

It is very sad when a loved one is struggling so much with sin that they can experience deep depression even to the point of suicidal ideation. I have a friend struggle with this. It can be tempting to try and turn the blame on society or church standards as the root cause of the pain and guilt and not on the sin and on Satan who accuses us.

The evangelical teaching taught by the priests of Noah against Abinadi was that the gospel was supposed to be happy all the time because didnt Isaiah say "how beautiful upon the Mountains are the feet of them who publish peace". The gospel of Christ should be always happy and focused on His mercy and love and forgiveness.

Modern scriptures and the Book of Mormon clarify this that Christ came to 1. save us from our sins and not in our sins. 2. the good news of the gospel is the "conditions of repentance" 3. our doctrine should be repentance focused 4. We are saved by grace after all we can do. 5. All we can do is "make use of the means God has provided for us". 6 the "means" God has provided us is the atonement of Christ, repentance, keep covenants, etc.(Alma 60). 7. We can by perfected in Christ by first denying ourselves of all ungodliness and living God's standard in 1 Cor 5:11. 8. God's standard in 1 Cor 5:11 is the basis for the temple questions covers sexual sin, false religion and false doctrine, love of money, anger and abuse, chemical addiction and abuse, and dishonesty.

We don't have to be perfect in this life, but the good news is that if we come unto Christ, his atonement has both the grace and power to help us overcome and forsake these sins. Sin carries painful consequences. Wouldn't you prefer the power to overcome and escape the painful sin then to accept the false idea that don't worry about it that god accepts you in your sins, and as you are and repentance isn't necessary? I want a religion that helps me repent and expects virtuous living. Isn't charity and virtue the whole purpose of "pure religion?"

[Squally]

Welcome


People can get so steeped in religion that they treat that as their idol, and will serve organization and tradition above their fellowmen even to the point of denying the Christ while saying that is who they follow. In some cases the religious are the most pious and satanic of all.

[Green Rose]

Hi Megara, and welcome! I'm a newbie as well. It appears you and I have been hanging around in the same places and reading similar wisdoms. I really enjoy the work of Phil McLemore. It is amazing to feel so much Light coming forth through so many different individuals. It is time! I fear the LDS Church is going to be experiencing some serious growing pains in the coming years. I love the Church and pray for my People. We're not ready to build Zion yet, that's for sure. I can relate to what you are saying about fears and knee-jerk reactions from people, including bishops. I think the Gospel has gotten a bit skewed from what the Lord intended it to look and feel like. I long for a time when we can all let go of the SHAME. We've all got weaknesses. We've all got strengths. Why are we not truly mourning with those who mourn and comforting those in need of our comfort? Why are we so darn fearful and judgmental? Now the Lord has got to bring us all back to point, or as many as will hear.

Welcome again!

[megara]

Thanks for your welcomes and comments. Just wanted to reply to Davedan's words about repentance. I put about 5 years' worth of experience into a few sentences. OF COURSE my son should not serve a mission while addicted to porn. Of course true repentance is always the goal. My point was that shame and guilt could not heal him. I think you kind of assumed he sought another religion instead of dealing with his sins. I never said he didn't repent or heal. He did. But the wholeness and healing was found through Christ outside of our authoritarian system. Yes, that can happen. Him and Christ. No mediator telling him if he was or wasn't forgiven based on a calendar. He didn't SEEK another religion. He was seeking understanding and truth and found the eastern model of wholeness, instead of our model of deficiency. Through that understanding, he was able to heal of his anxiety which was at the root of his porn problem. He's not a buddhist per se, he doesn't go to their meetings - he just found helpful truths there. That also helped him understand some of our concepts better. (I've always loved the First Pres statement from 1978 about truth being given all around the world. )

Of course a lot of people feel more free and happy when they abandon religion and any rules of conduct. I am well aware of this and I see it all over in a lot of facebook groups. People leave Mormonism and join Babylon and feel liberated. That is not us. We are striving for Zion in the fullest sense. My son has learned more and had more experiences with Christ than I have in my whole active Mormon life. Yeah, he's trying to reconcile the last few years with the things he understands now. But I got through those years as his mother by giving God the reigns. I just prayed, "He's your son first, lord. I'll say or do anything you tell me to say or do but otherwise, I don't know what else." And we have all learned a lot more about our faith, God, and all his children, not just us "chosen" few....anyway, it's too hard to convey so much....

I agree the gospel should be happy. I think the GOSPEL is happy - that there is hope for us all, that we can repent and be reborn a new creature in Christ. But the CHURCH makes hedges around some gospel principles, and we have plenty of things that also create pressure and cause underlying anxiety throughout our life. We all have to figure stuff out. And everyone doesn't have the same path. I personally am at a place right now where I just feel like, just love everyone. That's all that matters. I'm worn out of all the rest.

[larsenb]

. . . . . . Finding Phil McLemore's articles connecting eastern teachings and mormonism were groundbreaking for me.

Got some links to his articles? My scripture study, etc., has revived my interest in this topic.

Thanks.

[megara]

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/146-30-45.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/141-20-31.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonstories.org/spiritual-tran ... tradition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonmatters.org/2012/12/17/144 ... essing-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/hinder ... knowledge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonmeditations.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[larsenb]

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/146-30-45.pdf

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/141-20-31.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonstories.org/spiritual-tran ... tradition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonmatters.org/2012/12/17/144 ... essing-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/hinder ... knowledge/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://mormonmeditations.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for following through on this, megara!