Deleted

For discussion of liberty, freedom, government and politics.
Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8520

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Lizzy60 »

As the decline of Roman civilization set in, the games became the total preoccupation of the elite as well as the masses; people made no pretense at anything higher in life. They devoted exorbitant resources to the games, so much that charitable programs rated a poor second.55 Of all peoples in the Roman Empire, it seems only pious Jews shunned the games, considering them a heathen pastime.56

In our own culture, a widespread and rapidly growing preoccupation with sports—whether football, basketball, baseball, athletics, boxing, wrestling, car racing, horse racing, hunting—must make us ask whether we, too, like the Romans and Hellenists, find ourselves in a state of moral and civil decline. Although our laws prohibit bloodshed, so explicit appear the parallels of human behavior that we cannot say that we are different. The abandon and frenzy of the human spirit at such events, the foul language, anger, and even bloodlust reflect the kind of coarse disposition the Romans displayed.

So all-consuming have today’s games become that they govern people’s very thoughts, moods, and actions. In the cause of sports, men desecrate the Sabbath. Family life suffers to the point that we hear of “sports widows and orphans.” Upcoming events are no longer victories we ourselves win in working out our salvation, but the next game or the one after.

The fanfare and pageantry we impose on the games, the vast resources of money and man-hours we devote to organized sports, betray an entrenched cult, a full-blown diversion from life’s real contest. It is of absolutely no consequence to us, in the eternal perspective, whether so-and-so wins a match, or whether such and such a team retains its ranking. Our all-absorbing quest to become Number One in sports means that we become second-string players, or perhaps mere bench warmers, in our quest for Zion. When we love sports with all our might, mind, and strength, as we do, we are indeed damnable idolaters. Once we catch its infectious spirit, it will not leave us alone. We must ever be following the progress of a team, making that, not the gospel, our daily talk, the focus of our thoughts. To be a “fan” of, or “faithful” to, something other than God means that we entertain a substitute for true worship.

The type we outline teaches us that few, if any, involvements with organized sports exist—in their modern embellished form—that are not idolatrous in nature, that do not divert the mind and heart from being preeminently involved with things of the spirit. This, of course, does not include our individual pursuit of excellence while magnifying our talents. But where sports form an end in themselves, where they become an all-consuming quest for excellence for its own sake—or for the sake of money or becoming popular with the world, beating the world at its own game—then we overstep the bounds on the side of idolatry. The total abstinence by pious Jews from the games cult that swept away a civilization, and with it the early Church, surely constitutes a type and shadow of a latter-day contest.

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8520

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Lizzy60 »

The quote above is from Avraham Gileadi's "Twelve Diatribes of Modern Israel.

I found the entire article on the website By Study and Also By Faith, from the Neal A Maxwell Institute.

https://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscr ... 9&index=12

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

The Harlem Globetrotters. :P

User avatar
Sirocco
Praise Me!
Posts: 3808

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Sirocco »

Sports are more often then not simple background noise, things I put on while I do other things, hobbies or chores.
Since I am Canadian, hockey is my sport of choice and I have priority to the Montreal Canadians and Ottawa Senators, though have a love-hate with the Toronto Maple Leafs.

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by David13 »

I have long said that sports is not watching tv.
And all that is spoken of here is watching tv. And blatant idolatry as quoted, well quoted by Lizzy60.

It's such nonsense. "We" are playing today. "We" won. You have absolutely nothing to do with that team whatsoever. You are not related to the team in any way shape or form.

Even if you wen to the school, were you on the team? No. Are you on the team now? No.

Maybe if you at least go to the stadium and pay the ticket price and go in and watch, you are still nothing to the team. They make their millions off the ads and it's no consequence to them whatsoever if you attend and pay or not.

So it's goofy nonsense to me.

I will say Sirocco at least has a healthy attitude to it. Background noise.
dc

User avatar
David13
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 7072
Location: Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by David13 »

CelestialAngel wrote: February 10th, 2018, 3:11 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: February 10th, 2018, 2:22 pm As the decline of Roman civilization set in, the games became the total preoccupation of the elite as well as the masses; people made no pretense at anything higher in life. They devoted exorbitant resources to the games, so much that charitable programs rated a poor second.55 Of all peoples in the Roman Empire, it seems only pious Jews shunned the games, considering them a heathen pastime.56

In our own culture, a widespread and rapidly growing preoccupation with sports—whether football, basketball, baseball, athletics, boxing, wrestling, car racing, horse racing, hunting—must make us ask whether we, too, like the Romans and Hellenists, find ourselves in a state of moral and civil decline. Although our laws prohibit bloodshed, so explicit appear the parallels of human behavior that we cannot say that we are different. The abandon and frenzy of the human spirit at such events, the foul language, anger, and even bloodlust reflect the kind of coarse disposition the Romans displayed.

So all-consuming have today’s games become that they govern people’s very thoughts, moods, and actions. In the cause of sports, men desecrate the Sabbath. Family life suffers to the point that we hear of “sports widows and orphans.” Upcoming events are no longer victories we ourselves win in working out our salvation, but the next game or the one after.

The fanfare and pageantry we impose on the games, the vast resources of money and man-hours we devote to organized sports, betray an entrenched cult, a full-blown diversion from life’s real contest. It is of absolutely no consequence to us, in the eternal perspective, whether so-and-so wins a match, or whether such and such a team retains its ranking. Our all-absorbing quest to become Number One in sports means that we become second-string players, or perhaps mere bench warmers, in our quest for Zion. When we love sports with all our might, mind, and strength, as we do, we are indeed damnable idolaters. Once we catch its infectious spirit, it will not leave us alone. We must ever be following the progress of a team, making that, not the gospel, our daily talk, the focus of our thoughts. To be a “fan” of, or “faithful” to, something other than God means that we entertain a substitute for true worship.

The type we outline teaches us that few, if any, involvements with organized sports exist—in their modern embellished form—that are not idolatrous in nature, that do not divert the mind and heart from being preeminently involved with things of the spirit. This, of course, does not include our individual pursuit of excellence while magnifying our talents. But where sports form an end in themselves, where they become an all-consuming quest for excellence for its own sake—or for the sake of money or becoming popular with the world, beating the world at its own game—then we overstep the bounds on the side of idolatry. The total abstinence by pious Jews from the games cult that swept away a civilization, and with it the early Church, surely constitutes a type and shadow of a latter-day contest.
I bet you're invited to a lot of parties................... :x

Depends on the kind of party.
I certainly have no need to go to beer guzzlin', rabble rousin' watch tv parties. Lizzy may get invited to more parties after a quote like that. But no tv watchin' parties. Maybe she goes to parties where people talk to each other.
I'm not much of a hootin' and a hollerin' at the tv kind of guy myself. Maybe Lizzy isn't either.
dc

Oh, and don't get me wrong. I'm not against sports. I just know what sports is.
You bring the football, or the bat and ball, soft or hard over, and you will learn what I mean.

Lizzy60
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 8520

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Lizzy60 »

Today's spectator sports (college and professional) are symptoms of our collective idolatry and immersion in Babylon.

Yeah, that's my opinion, and most don't agree, but I've never wanted to be part of the "popular" crowd.

User avatar
Sirocco
Praise Me!
Posts: 3808

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Sirocco »

David13 wrote: February 10th, 2018, 3:10 pm I have long said that sports is not watching tv.
And all that is spoken of here is watching tv. And blatant idolatry as quoted, well quoted by Lizzy60.

It's such nonsense. "We" are playing today. "We" won. You have absolutely nothing to do with that team whatsoever. You are not related to the team in any way shape or form.

Even if you wen to the school, were you on the team? No. Are you on the team now? No.

Maybe if you at least go to the stadium and pay the ticket price and go in and watch, you are still nothing to the team. They make their millions off the ads and it's no consequence to them whatsoever if you attend and pay or not.

So it's goofy nonsense to me.

I will say Sirocco at least has a healthy attitude to it. Background noise.
dc
I gotta have something to distract me and escape the silence of home since my job don't give me many hours lol

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

It would be great if someone would invent speed golf. :twisted:

It’s how fast you can complete the round, rather than number of strokes. :D

Only prob is it would tear up the course, unless they played on AstroTurf. :idea:

User avatar
mirkwood
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1740
Location: Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by mirkwood »

Manchester United, Miami Dolphins, Kansas City Royals, Utah Jazz.

simpleton
captain of 1,000
Posts: 3074

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by simpleton »

CelestialAngel wrote: February 10th, 2018, 4:38 pm
Lizzy60 wrote: February 10th, 2018, 3:43 pm Today's spectator sports (college and professional) are symptoms of our collective idolatry and immersion in Babylon.

Yeah, that's my opinion, and most don't agree, but I've never wanted to be part of the "popular" crowd.
I simply asked a simple question of what teams people liked and you went all calling me a member of Babylon. I'm insulted and upset by your comments in this thread and ask that you leave.
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool"....
Brigham Young

We (IMO) are all members of Babylon to a greater or lesser
degree. And following professional sports is just one of the countless ways of idol worshipping in Babylon. Let's just be honest and admit how we are so caught up in it.

for after today cometh the burning,” a day wherein “all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon” (D&C 64:24)

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by BeNotDeceived »

CelestialAngel wrote: February 10th, 2018, 11:00 pm Not one person has named a team. What do you all do for fun? Post on this message board only and not partake of athletic activities?
Spectating sports, especially on TV, is not athletic activity. :P

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by brianj »

I'll name some teams.
The Eagles (not the NFL team)
The Wallabies
The Saints
The Kings

User avatar
BeNotDeceived
Agent38
Posts: 8960
Location: Tralfamadore
Contact:

Go 49ers

Post by BeNotDeceived »

Different teams, mostly football like U of U when I was a student there, Bronco when I was a kid and even enjoyed Nicholas vs Palmer golf comps as my dad was a dedicated viewer. Chicago’s fridge team and anyone with an awesome hurry up offense, and Green Bay having spent my anniversary in the anniversary inn, with another guy. It was the only room available, and thankfully it was the Disney Room with two beds. It was just before a super bowl with them playing the 49ers, so we had fun, by yelling “Go 49rs” as we exited Menards with a pair of hoof trimmers. The whole store erupted, but took it as good fun. Green Bay is a small town and the team is owned by the community.

49ers were my favorite, where weirdness did occur at 711 (there’s posts about it), and I happened upon Steve Young and Jerry Rice on my fantasy team, which made things interesting for awhile.

Fiannan
Level 34 Illuminated
Posts: 12983

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Fiannan »

Image

User avatar
Sirocco
Praise Me!
Posts: 3808

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Sirocco »

Now they put politics in sports so less people watch them and pay attention to more politics...

Why I have to be accepting of transgenders to watch some idiots skate around a rink is beyond me.

Ezra
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4357
Location: Not telling

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Ezra »

My favorite professional sports teams.......
Hummm guess I don’t have one.

The least boring teams.......
ya I guess I don’t waist my time watching boring things on tv.

I usually just go fishing swimming or wakeboarding out my front door. Or I spend time with my family.

But I do love to hear about all the sport teams during church from all the other elders. Nothing makes the sabbath day seem more holy then spending the first 10-20 minutes of elders quorum talking about sports teams.
Maybe Love is too strong of a word. Lame. Ya I think it’s lame to hear about all the sports teams during church.

brianj
captain of 1,000
Posts: 4066
Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by brianj »

CelestialAngel wrote: February 11th, 2018, 12:04 am
brianj wrote: February 11th, 2018, 12:02 am I'll name some teams.
The Eagles (not the NFL team)
The Wallabies
The Saints
The Kings
What sport are the Wallabies because that sounds like a team I can get behind.
http://www.rugbyaustralia.com.au/wallabies/Home.aspx

User avatar
mirkwood
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1740
Location: Utah

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by mirkwood »

CelestialAngel wrote: February 10th, 2018, 11:00 pm Not one person has named a team. What do you all do for fun? Post on this message board only and not partake of athletic activities?
Uhh...I mentioned four. :?:

User avatar
captainfearnot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1966

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by captainfearnot »

Lizzy60 wrote: February 10th, 2018, 2:22 pm The fanfare and pageantry we impose on the games, the vast resources of money and man-hours we devote to organized sports, betray an entrenched cult, a full-blown diversion from life’s real contest. It is of absolutely no consequence to us, in the eternal perspective, whether so-and-so wins a match, or whether such and such a team retains its ranking.
I always thought of spectator sports as mostly harmless recreation. Then I read Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion, which makes a vivid comparison between college football and religion.
Every Saturday in the fall, at colleges across the United States, millions of people pack themselves into stadiums to participate in a ritual that can only be described as tribal. At the University of Virginia, the ritual begins in the morning as students dress in special costumes. Men wear dress shirts with UVA neckties, and if the weather is warm, shorts. Women typically wear skirts or dresses, sometimes with pearl necklaces. Some students paint the logo of our sports teams, the Cavaliers (a V crossed by two swords), on their faces or other body parts.

The students attend pregame parties that serve brunch and alcoholic drinks. Then they stream over to the stadium, sometimes stopping to mingle with friends, relatives, or unknown alumni who have driven for hours to reach Charlottesville in time to set up tailgate parties in every parking lot within a half mile of the stadium. More food, more alcohol, more face painting.

By the time the game starts, many of the 50,000 fans are drunk, which makes it easier for them to overcome self-consciousness and participate fully in the synchronous chants, cheers, jeers, and songs that will fill the next three hours. Every time the Cavaliers score, the students sing the same song UVA students have sung together on such occasions for over a century The first verse comes straight out of Durkheim and Ehrenreich. The students literally lock arms and sway as a single mass while singing the praises of their community (to the tune of “Auld Lang Syne”):

        That good old song of Wah-hoo-wah—we’ll sing it o’er and o’er
        It cheers our hearts and warms our blood to hear them shout and roar
        We come from old Virgin-i-a, where all is bright and gay
        Let’s all join hands and give a yell for dear old U-V-A.


Next, the students illustrate McNeill’s thesis that “muscular bonding” warms people up for coordinated military action. The students let go of each other’s arms and make aggressive fist-pumping motions in the air, in sync with a nonsensical battle chant:

                Wah-hoo-wah! Wah-hoo-wah! Uni-v, Virgin-i-a!
                Hoo-rah-ray! Hoo-rah-ray! Ray, ray—U-V-A!


It’s a whole day of hiving and collective emotions. Collective effervescence is guaranteed, as are feelings of collective outrage at questionable calls by the referees, collective triumph if the team wins, and collective grief if the team loses, followed by more collective drinking at postgame parties.
Why do the students sing, chant, dance, sway, chop, and stomp so enthusiastically during the game? Showing support for their football team may help to motivate the players, but is that the function of these behaviors? Are they done in order to achieve victory? No. From a Durkheimian perspective these behaviors serve a very different function, and it is the same one that Durkheim saw at work in most religious rituals: the creation of a community.

A college football game is a superb analogy for religion. From a naive perspective, focusing only on what is most visible (i.e., the game being played on the field), college football is an extravagant, costly, wasteful institution that impairs people’s ability to think rationally while leaving a long trail of victims (including the players themselves, plus the many fans who suffer alcohol-related injuries). But from a sociologically informed perspective, it is a religious rite that does just what it is supposed to do: it pulls people up from Durkheim’s lower level (the profane) to his higher level (the sacred). It flips the hive switch and makes people feel, for a few hours, that they are “simply a part of a whole.” It augments the school spirit for which UVA is renowned, which in turn attracts better students and more alumni donations, which in turn improves the experience for the entire community, including professors like me who have no interest in sports.

Religions are social facts. Religion cannot be studied in lone individuals any more than hivishness can be studied in lone bees. Durkheim’s definition of religion makes its binding function clear:

"A religion is a unified system of beliefs and practices relative to sacred things, that is to say, things set apart and forbidden—beliefs and practices which unite into one single moral community called a Church, all those who adhere to them."

In this chapter I continue exploring the third principle of moral psychology: Morality binds and blinds. Many scientists misunderstand religion because they ignore this principle and examine only what is most visible. They focus on individuals and their supernatural beliefs, rather than on groups and their binding practices. They conclude that religion is an extravagant, costly, wasteful institution that impairs people’s ability to think rationally while leaving a long trail of victims. I do not deny that religions do, at times, fit that description. But if we are to render a fair judgment about religion—and understand its relationship to morality and politics—we must first describe it accurately.
Gileadi's twelve diatribes seem to be describing human needs that in his mind, ought to be met by the One True Church, but which people meet in other ways. In that sense, sports are only bad in the sense that they are a substitute for a religion. It's not belonging to a cult that's the problem, it's belonging to the wrong cult.

User avatar
captainfearnot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1966

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by captainfearnot »

By the way, I follow the local professional teams in the following order: Texas Rangers, Dallas Cowboys, Dallas Mavericks, Dallas Stars, FC Dallas. I like watching all kinds of sports on TV, but I don't feel anything like the kind of religious devotion to a particular fandom described above. When it comes to BYU sports I am the biggest fair-weather fan there is.

User avatar
LdsMarco
captain of 100
Posts: 606

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by LdsMarco »

I'm a baseball fan. My team are the Atlanta Braves. Then the Dodgers.

When I use to watch American football, it was the Green Bay Packers. I gave that up when I was baptized into the church.

Not a big fan of basketball unless it's the playoffs.

I like watching hockey when I get the chance. No team in particular.

Same for Soccer. I love America

User avatar
captainfearnot
captain of 1,000
Posts: 1966

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by captainfearnot »

LdsMarco wrote: February 12th, 2018, 10:52 am I'm a baseball fan. My team are the Atlanta Braves. Then the Dodgers.
Ah, an NLer. As an ALer myself, I wonder if there are enough baseball fans on the forum to get into a rousing argument about the designated hitter.

8-)

User avatar
LdsMarco
captain of 100
Posts: 606

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by LdsMarco »

:lol:
captainfearnot wrote: February 12th, 2018, 11:27 am
LdsMarco wrote: February 12th, 2018, 10:52 am I'm a baseball fan. My team are the Atlanta Braves. Then the Dodgers.
Ah, an NLer. As an ALer myself, I wonder if there are enough baseball fans on the forum to get into a rousing argument about the designated hitter.

8-)

Tbone
captain of 100
Posts: 425
Location: Right here

Re: What are your favorite professional sports teams?

Post by Tbone »

mirkwood wrote: February 10th, 2018, 9:59 pm Kansas City Royals
Kansas City Royals!!

Plus, Real Madrid and Kansas City Chiefs

Post Reply