Breaking the Rules

[ajax]

I think you may be suffering from an undue romanticism of a bygone era.

I romanticize nothing. I merely wonder how much more could be done in building Zion if we weren't so busy building Babylon. You mean if you weren't so busy working? So change.

Do they need insurance in Zion? Do they need used donkey salesmen? I don't doubt some form of accounting is still necessary, but what about tanning salons and botox clinics? Who knows. What you or I may think is probably is off the mark. I think most seem to view it as some sort of idyllic utopia. You sound a lot like Nibs here, who tending to throw manure on those who provided different goods and services than he. I think the first that should go should be the ivory tower professors.

If we're preparing for eternity, wouldn't our efforts be better spent acquiring skills that will be used there? So do it.

Back to my original point: After all our efforts in building Babylon, Babylon will not sustain us in our time of need. Does that change the way you approach your life? Or do we just plod along and hope for the best? Yep, dust thou art, dust thou shalt become. He causes the rain to fall on the just and unjust, He also allows sh!t to happen to all of us.

I like marc's perspective because I think that could be any of us - we are all dependent on God on a day to day basis for everything we have and are. So why not make that our focus? Why get so preoccupied with getting ahead? So do what marc does. Does marc's template have to be everybody's template? I'm not preoccupied with getting ahead. Why are you?

[David13]

When I hear someone say "I have to go to work ..." I always correct them.
"You get to go to work."
"There are many people out there who would like to work, and don't have any work."

Around here many people work two or three jobs, or more. I suppose that's because so many places offer only part time work, but people need and like more.
You have to have a good house around here, even with a so so house you will pay $600 to $800 a month for heat.

Ah, again I'm reminded of a song. Let's all sing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnn9ReUV04
dc

[iWriteStuff]

So do it.

How do you know I'm not?

Side note: a good half of my family have been teachers and professors. If we're going to toss them all off a building, you can expect to find me at the bottom with a net.

[ajax]

For me, I hope some day to escape the daily grind.

Amen and amen!

The daily grind is ordained of heaven:

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

What's that saying? It's the journey that matters, not the destination.

True, yet Adam was given all things freely to sweat freely free from the extortions of man and corrupt governments.

Extortions of man and corrupt governments is one and the same. I'm wondering what this has to do with used donkey salesmen. I think we are much closer to seeing the true babylon and great and abom church when viewed through the lens of extortions of man and corrupt governments versus voluntary peaceful exchange and associations.

From Murray Rothbard's preface to Conceived in Liberty, his history of colonial and revolutionary America.
https://mises.org/library/conceived-liberty-2

My own basic perspective on the history of man, and a fortiori on the history of the United States, is to place central importance on the great conflict which is eternally waged between Liberty and Power, a conflict, by the way, which was seen with crystal clarity by the American revolutionaries of the eighteenth century. I see the liberty of the individual not only as a great moral good in itself (or, with Lord Acton, as the highest political good), but also as the necessary condition for the flowering of all the other goods that mankind cherishes: moral virtue, civilization, the arts and sciences, economic prosperity. Out of liberty, then, stem the glories of civilized life. But liberty has always been threatened by the encroachments of power, power which seeks to suppress, control, cripple, tax, and exploit the fruits of liberty and production. Power, then, the enemy of liberty, is consequently the enemy of all the other goods and fruits of civilization that mankind holds dear. And power is almost always centered in and focused on that central repository of power and violence: the state. With Albert Jay Nock, the twentieth century American political philosopher, I see history as centrally a race and conflict between “social power”— the productive consequence of voluntary interactions among men—and state power. In those eras of history when liberty—social power—has managed to race ahead of state power and control, the country and even mankind have flourished. In those eras when state power has managed to catch up with or surpass social power, mankind suffers and declines.

For decades, American historians have quarreled about “conflict” or “consensus” as the guiding leitmotif of the American past. Clearly, I belong in the “conflict” rather than the “consensus” camp, with the proviso that I see the central conflict as not between classes (social or economic), or between ideologies, but between Power and Liberty, State and Society. The social or ideological conflicts have been ancillary to the central one, which concerns: Who will control the state, and what power will the state exercise over the citizenry? To take a common example from American history, there are in my view no inherent conflicts between merchants and farmers in the free market. On the contrary, in the market, the sphere of liberty, the interests of merchants and farmers are harmonious, with each buying and selling the products of the other. Conflicts arise only through the attempts of various groups of merchants or farmers to seize control over the machinery of government and to use it to privilege themselves at the expense of the others. It is only through and by state action that “class” conflicts can ever arise.

[ajax]

So do it.

How do you know I'm not? Than why the fretting?

Side note: a good half of my family have been teachers and professors. If we're going to toss them all off a building, you can expect to find me at the bottom with a net. My comment was tongue in cheek of course. And I never suggested to toss them off a building.

[iWriteStuff]

So do it.

How do you know I'm not? Than why the fretting? Because sometimes I need the reminder who I'm working for and why. It seemed a useful reflection, but perhaps not to all.

Side note: a good half of my family have been teachers and professors. If we're going to toss them all off a building, you can expect to find me at the bottom with a net. My comment was tongue in cheek of course. And I never suggested to toss them off a building. If you contrast the number of "Get Rich Quick" books circulating in UT vs the number of books advocating consecration, I think you will find folks like Nibley are the much needed minority - a lone voice in the wilderness, as it were, proclaiming the opposite. You may not enjoy hearing what he has to say on the subject, but I find comfort knowing there is a doctrinal element to the ideal he proclaims. To me it means the true sentiments of my heart aren't too far off the mark. But to each their own.

[ajax]

No doubt correctives are needed. And I enjoy hearing what he has to say. Doesn't mean I agree with EVERYTHING he has to say.

[marc]

Extortions of man and corrupt governments is one and the same...

Yes, I know. I'm also not opposed to free exchange as you put it. The singular point that I am trying to make is that I desire to labor for my bread as the Lord intended, free from any kind of extortion by anybody. Just leave me alone to work the land in my little corner of the Earth to provide for my family and to give whatever excess I have away if I choose. If you want to visit me and offer to trade something for my bread, that is fine. Just don't come and try and tell me I owe you (generally speaking) some kind of tribute or tax or tariff for my goods or services or property over which I am a steward.

[ajax]

Extortions of man and corrupt governments is one and the same...

Yes, I know. I'm also not opposed to free exchange as you put it. The singular point that I am trying to make is that I desire to labor for my bread as the Lord intended, free from any kind of extortion by anybody. Just leave me alone to work the land in my little corner of the Earth to provide for my family and to give whatever excess I have away if I choose. If you want to visit me and offer to trade something for my bread, that is fine. Just don't come and try and tell me I owe you (generally speaking) some kind of tribute or tax or tariff for my goods or services or property over which I am a steward.

I agree with that.

[therealoptout]

What if there was not only a way, but it was proven and the way fulfilled every point needed to prepare a Zion people while freeing them from the flaxen cords of Babylon?

There is. And it's better than I could have imagined. I'd love to meet anyone who feels it's time to awake and arise.. or who needs some resources to start seeing what's possible.

[iWriteStuff]

What if there was not only a way, but it was proven and the way fulfilled every point needed to prepare a Zion people while freeing them from the flaxen cords of Babylon?

There is. And it's better than I could have imagined. I'd love to meet anyone who feels it's time to awake and arise.. or who needs some resources to start seeing what's possible.

Alright, I'll admit I'm curious. Whatcha got?

[EmmaLee]

What if there was not only a way, but it was proven and the way fulfilled every point needed to prepare a Zion people while freeing them from the flaxen cords of Babylon?

There is. And it's better than I could have imagined. I'd love to meet anyone who feels it's time to awake and arise.. or who needs some resources to start seeing what's possible.

Alright, I'll admit I'm curious. Whatcha got?

viewtopic.php?t=47151

[iWriteStuff]

What if there was not only a way, but it was proven and the way fulfilled every point needed to prepare a Zion people while freeing them from the flaxen cords of Babylon?

There is. And it's better than I could have imagined. I'd love to meet anyone who feels it's time to awake and arise.. or who needs some resources to start seeing what's possible.

Alright, I'll admit I'm curious. Whatcha got?

viewtopic.php?t=47151

Intriguing...... I wish we had that in CO.