Might God be using Trump to Repair America?

[gardener4life]

Civilians can't be called to stand before a military tribunal unless they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice or under martial law. Martial law can only be declared nationwide in a state of emergency that goes far beyond revelations of treason by politicians and bureaucrats. We would need a societal collapse or a civil war to justify such a declaration of martial law....

Consider this, though: Our courts are currently too compromised to adjudicate cases involving the likes of Hillary. These traitors, being many, have to be efficiently prosecuted in a less compromised venue and, if found guilty of treason, publicly executed without delay - like in the old days. That would serve as a huge refresher for any still hanging around who might not be all that honest.

I agree with chip on this. Our courts are completely useless. By the time they act on even one case 5 or 10 years will have passed. That's what they are trying to do. The Exon Valdees oil spill in Alaska years and years and years ago did this sort of thing and I don't know if it ever really got solved after the first 20 years had passed. This is what they will try to do with Hillary and the other traitors. So yes, a military tribunal system that's quick and dirty is really the only way it could get solved.

And such a military tribunal system would have to include; anything related to bribing the government, trying to overthrow the will of the people and overthrowing freedom, trying to sway or influence elections, courts, government officials unjustly or to favor past a critical point of corruption, or things that cause harm or influence of foreign governments on our systems to delay or change them or influence them to put foreign interests ahead of the domestic people of the land.

[LdsMarco]

There's no doubt in my mind that he is.

This is the first time in my life I've seen a huge division of the people. I never seen so many people hate a president so much to the point they have to create lies to try to overthrow him. I see so many parallels within the BOM

If Trump gets removed for some odd reason - it will be hell for America. There's no doubt that we will see very bad things come to pass.

This doesn't mean something bad cannot happen now. The Gadiantons obviously do not want him in office and they'll do anything to make that happen.

No president in my lifetime has done what he promised to do. Of course, nothing is perfect, but he's doing what he said and that is amazing to me. Everyone else was too scared (or lied) to do all the things they so-called promised, but failed to fulfill them.

When I see a person get hated for all the good things he has accomplished (as you can see so many did not clap or stand up - PRIDE), it is obvious he is doing exactly what they (Elite) don't want him to do.

The division that you refer too started in 2008.

and you see that more now

[David13]

Civilians can't be called to stand before a military tribunal unless they are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice or under martial law. Martial law can only be declared nationwide in a state of emergency that goes far beyond revelations of treason by politicians and bureaucrats. We would need a societal collapse or a civil war to justify such a declaration of martial law....

Consider this, though: Our courts are currently too compromised to adjudicate cases involving the likes of Hillary. These traitors, being many, have to be efficiently prosecuted in a less compromised venue and, if found guilty of treason, publicly executed without delay - like in the old days. That would serve as a huge refresher for any still hanging around who might not be all that honest.

If you had an omnipotent all powerful and tyrannical government like the socialist/communist global agenda-ists envision, you would do business that way. But not in a Constitutional Republic.
dc

[LatterDayLizard]

I believe we will eventually look back and see how the Lord used Trump to further his work. That would be true of any president.

No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing, but we are free to choose where we stand. I believe that as a nation we always get what we ask (and vote) for.

I believe conservatives are rightfully tired of being raked over the coals by democrats. I think Trump's election and presidency feels like payback time. I felt that way myself on election night. It was poetic justice to see all of the news pundits with their mouths wide open, in shock that their preferred candidate lost.

I understand that a number of good, honest people have very strong feelings about Trump being good for America - a modern day Cyrus. Maybe some day the Lord will use him this way, but it's completely out of character for the Lord to counsel us to vote for amoral leaders. I think that conservatives wanted this win and these policy changes so bad that thinking of Trump as a righteous choice made us feel better about voting with our eyes closed.

The naked truth is we were given a choice between two candidates who BOTH have a history of lying and of other well-documented amoral behavior. It wasn't really about Trump at all was it? It was about who gets to be in power. Consider for a moment, if you will: If Trump had run as a democrat, there's no way the republicans would all be speaking about him in such glowing, such biblical terms, and not just because of his policies. I suspect there would be talk on this forum about how amoral he is, how it was God's will that our candidate won, and how relieved we are that Trump didn't win the election - how we dodged a bullet.

Consider this: Joseph Smith once ran for president, even though he didn't stand a chance. In his day the leaders of the church emphasized the importance of voting for good, honest people, just as we are counselled to do in our day from letters shared over the pulpit. Nothing has changed in that regard. Why do we act now as if it didn't matter, that somehow Trump's election is the exception to that clearly defined rule? Moving forward with faith and hope will always trump being motivated by political expediency in the gospel. Why bother professing faith if it's not for all times, in all things, and in all places?

Egypt (the United States) would not accept Joseph (Smith), so the Lord sent them Abraham (Lincoln). The consequence was war. I hear similar rumblings in our day and feel this is no coincidence. It remains to be seen what happens when a people living in the promised land once again place party and politics over purity and truth.

I believe if we begin to see faithful, honest people being "driven out" of our society, as the saints were driven out years ago, then war and/or some other type of "woe" will not be far behind. I for one would rather be with the saints and have to go through what they may have to go through than "stay behind" to experience the woes of a hypocritical nation.

Edit: I don't know who should have been president, but I do believe that if we vote as we've been counselled to do by voting for honest men and women (not perfect, but people we can at least trust) we will be blessed and the Lord Himself will fight our battles.

[larsenb]

I believe we will eventually look back and see how the Lord used Trump to further his work. That would be true of any president.

No unhallowed hand can stop the work from progressing, but we are free to choose where we stand. I believe that as a nation we always get what we ask (and vote) for.

I believe conservatives are rightfully tired of being raked over the coals by democrats. I think Trump's election and presidency feels like payback time. I felt that way myself on election night. It was poetic justice to see all of the news pundits with their mouths wide open, in shock that their preferred candidate lost.

I understand that a number of good, honest people have very strong feelings about Trump being good for America - a modern day Cyrus. Maybe some day the Lord will use him this way, but it's completely out of character for the Lord to counsel us to vote for amoral leaders. I think that conservatives wanted this win and these policy changes so bad that thinking of Trump as a righteous choice made us feel better about voting with our eyes closed.

The naked truth is we were given a choice between two candidates who BOTH have a history of lying and of other well-documented amoral behavior. It wasn't really about Trump at all was it? It was about who gets to be in power. Consider for a moment, if you will: If Trump had run as a democrat, there's no way the republicans would all be speaking about him in such glowing, such biblical terms, and not just because of his policies. I suspect there would be talk on this forum about how amoral he is, how it was God's will that our candidate won, and how relieved we are that Trump didn't win the election - how we dodged a bullet. . . . . . .

Trump didn't put himself forward as a moral paragon. He put himself forward as someone who just might be able to turn our economic, etc., malaise around, someone who would push general American ideals and put a stop or slow down the march toward global tyranny. He is doing, or trying to do just that. Which is a lot; and is probably all we can expect at this time . . . for now.

I think Trump's supposed moral turpitude is probably greatly exaggerated, which is what those who have known him for 40 years or more also say. I do see the man as speaking his mind and telling the truth the way he sees it in a given moment. He is also a man that isn't governed by fear.

And there is no way Trump could run as a Democrat, whose ideals and ideas of government, including what the purview of government should be, is skewed way out of what has heretofore been the normal range.

Watch him being interviewed by Letterman here (posted elsewhere on this forum): https://youtu.be/wVsAir5fDbs , a short clip. You can see that he is much the same now as he was back then and is saying the same things. Likewise, in an interview I recently saw of him by Oprah back in 1981.

[Col. Flagg]

Trump recently announced he wants to drop another $850 BILLION into the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex which has been receiving blank checks and virtually unlimited funding since the fraud of 9/11 - clearly, this has been and continues to be the #1 threat to this country (along with the banksters, Wall Street, DC itself and insane debt levels in the U.S.) So no, God is not working through or using Trump because if he was, no way on God's green earth is he giving yet even more money to the thoroughly evil and corrupt U.S. 'defense industry'. Trump clearly doesn't understand what has been going on in this nation financially and militarily for the last 17 years!

[larsenb]

Trump recently announced he wants to drop another $850 BILLION into the U.S. Military-Industrial Complex which has been receiving blank checks and virtually unlimited funding since the fraud of 9/11 - clearly, this has been and continues to be the #1 threat to this country (along with the banksters, Wall Street, DC itself and insane debt levels in the U.S.) So no, God is not working through or using Trump because if he was, no way on God's green earth is he giving yet even more money to the thoroughly evil and corrupt U.S. 'defense industry'. Trump clearly doesn't understand what has been going on in this nation financially and militarily for the last 17 years!

This does seem to be his one big weakness. But he has decried the incredible waste that has occurred in the military, citing various projects, and is doing something about it. If he concomitantly makes real efforts to cut military spending waste, yet at the same time, strengthens a decaying military, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt . . . . for the time being. Here is an excerpt from Politico on this issue:

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2 ... ing-000282

President-elect Donald Trump has made cutting wasteful defense spending a top priority, specifically targeting federal defense contracts. He called defense industry leaders to the proverbial woodshed to protest costly projects, including threatening on Twitter to cancel Lockheed Martin’s F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and Boeing’s contract to build two new Air Force Ones.

These tweets send a strong message, and both Boeing and Lockheed have said they intend to work with Trump to reduce program costs. But significantly reducing bloat in the defense budget will require much more than tweets.

It’s a huge challenge, but Trump can draw on a set of policy proposals that enjoy broad, bipartisan support within the think tank community, including two letters signed by respected scholars from 16 institutions. They include eliminating excess overhead, modernizing the military’s pay and benefits system and overhauling its weapons acquisitions process.

Such reforms will require support from Congress, no guarantee since most proposed changes target entrenched interests. But in just the few months since his election, Trump has shown how to use the bully pulpit against major defense contractors. If he uses the same tactics against wavering lawmakers, he could create a robust coalition that finally trims waste in the defense budget and modernizes the military.

Trump made a smart choice in selecting South Carolina Congressman Mick Mulvaney to be the next director of the Office of Management and Budget. From that position, Mulvaney could impose the sort of budget discipline that he could only advocate as a member of Congress. Mulvaney knows about waste at DOD, and railed against the Overseas Contingency Operations slush fund that Congress created to evade the budget caps set by the bipartisan Budget Control Act. . . . . . .

But your statement: "Trump clearly doesn't understand what has been going on in this nation financially and militarily for the last 17 years!" is way too hyperbolic and black-and-white for my consumption.

[Col. Flagg]

But your statement: "Trump clearly doesn't understand what has been going on in this nation financially and militarily for the last 17 years!" is way too hyperbolic and black-and-white for my consumption.

If he was aware of what's been going on, not a chance the MIC gets another $850 billion.

[larsenb]

But your statement: "Trump clearly doesn't understand what has been going on in this nation financially and militarily for the last 17 years!" is way too hyperbolic and black-and-white for my consumption.

If he was aware of what's been going on, not a chance the MIC gets another $850 billion.

Toned down the hyperbole. But still too black-and-white, at least for me. let's get a good assessment at how much MIC waste he cuts out.

[LatterDayLizard]

Larsenb thank you, your comments were thoughtful and deserved some pondering. My responses are in blue.

Trump didn't put himself forward as a moral paragon.

That's true, so why didn't we listen to him? We knew what he was when we picked him up.

He put himself forward as someone who just might be able to turn our economic, etc., malaise around,

That's also true. So has every corrupt leader who ever became infamous. I know it's overused and inflammatory, but I'll use it - in the beginning of his administration, Hitler built the Autobahn and implemented policies which served to raise the economy and to make Germans proud to be German again. They wanted to feel good about their country and prosper again so badly they were willing to look the other way and shrug off the early warning signs. Now I'm not saying that Trump will become Adolf Hitler. I'm merely pointing out the hazardous pattern of lowering our standards and putting up with stuff when we want something badly enough, or are so afraid of the consequences (Hillary Clinton) that we'll look the other way, especially when we're counselled not to by the Lord's servants.

someone who would push general American ideals and put a stop or slow down the march toward global tyranny. He is doing, or trying to do just that. Which is a lot; and is probably all we can expect at this time . . . for now.

This may be true. Perhaps our economy will grow during his tenure. It looks like he's serious about not giving money to countries who work against us. I personally agree with that being a reasonable approach. I'm happy that he's moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem. Whatever his motivations are, I suspect this is an example of the Lord's will moving forward, or at least of his prophecy being fulfilled.

I think Trump's supposed moral turpitude is probably greatly exaggerated, which is what those who have known him for 40 years or more also say.

I wouldn't expect those who hang around him for that long to be put off by moral turpitude. It's likely they can relate. I've heard enough from those who have done business with him or who've worked with him (those who were not partisan) to feel confident that my impression of his character is not mistaken.

I do see the man as speaking his mind and telling the truth the way he sees it in a given moment.

Speaking your mind is great and shows a strong will, but it requires wisdom and discretion to pull it off wisely as the president. The president is our chief diplomat. If he can't be diplomatic, then we have a problem. I hope he will learn to watch his tongue, and his twitter feed, because everything he says has an impact on our international and domestic affairs. Even honest people have to watch their tongues.

He is also a man that isn't governed by fear.

I disagree, and here is one area where moral character really comes into play. I see his tendency to lash out at people who do not agree with him as a sign of insecurity and of poor judgment. I believe he is afraid of being a "failure". I appreciate that we should be firm with nations like North Korea, and that for the past several years we haven't been. Only now I feel like the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. We've gone from Obama shrinking before our adversaries to Trump antagonizing our adversaries in public. Sure, take that approach when you're face to face - in private - with Kim Jung Un or his spokesman. Trump does not seem to realize he's burning down diplomatic bridges, backing dangerous enemies into corners, and destroying their ability to bow out gracefully and save face with their people, something they cannot afford to let happen. A cornered friend will not remain friends for long. A cornered enemy is very dangerous.

Off the cuff insults may work in business, but business strategies and diplomatic strategies are not the same thing. His approach is way too personal and very immature, like a school kid in a fight shouting "So's your mother!" We need a few of those bridges at least to remain intact; allies are crucial to our safety! I only hope someone will begin to get through to him and redirect his fighting business energy in a safer, more productive direction.

But if he's truly set on governing via visceral reaction rather than consulting with his experts and thinking through what he is going to say, then that worries me. I believe it puts us in a precarious position and may leave us vulnerable and alone. We need to be able to trust our president to put our national safety above scoring points for his own ego. A person of strong moral character would be humble and wise enough to do that.

And there is no way Trump could run as a Democrat, whose ideals and ideas of government, including what the purview of government should be, is skewed way out of what has heretofore been the normal range. Watch him being interviewed by Letterman here (posted elsewhere on this forum): https://youtu.be/wVsAir5fDbs , a short clip. You can see that he is much the same now as he was back then and is saying the same things. Likewise, in an interview I recently saw of him by Oprah back in 1981.

I had some time this morning so I browsed through the interviews. Very interesting. Trump comes off as your run of the mill business guy and there is even a foreshadowing of him running for president one day.

If that's all I knew about him, I would have had no qualms voting for him. If I didn't know what I know about the shady mafia business deals and prostitution rings that are deeply imbedded with running a successful casino in Vegas or to being a successful real estate developer in New York maybe I would be open to trusting his character. If he hadn't gone on the air with people like Howard Stern and said the vile things that he did, in addition to cheating more than once on his spouses, I would have been more open to giving him a pass on current rumors of infidelity and sexual misconduct.

He's our president now. What remains is for all of us to ignore the lure of the "All is Well!" sales pitch and call him out if he strays into dangerous territory.

Donald Trump is a salesman first. How we respond to what he's selling us is on us.

[capctr]

Larsenb thank you, your comments were thoughtful and deserved some pondering. My responses are in blue.

Trump didn't put himself forward as a moral paragon.

That's true, so why didn't we listen to him? We knew what he was when he picked him up.

He put himself forward as someone who just might be able to turn our economic, etc., malaise around,

That's also true. So has every corrupt leader who ever became infamous. I know it's overused and inflammatory, but I'll use it - in the beginning of his administration, Hitler built the Autobahn and implemented policies which served to raise the economy and to make Germans proud to be German again. They wanted to feel good about their country and prosper again so badly they were willing to look the other way and shrug off the early warning signs. Now I'm not saying that Trump will become Adolf Hitler. I'm merely pointing out the hazardous pattern of lowering our standards and putting up with stuff when we want something badly enough, or are so afraid of the consequences (Hillary Clinton) that we'll look the other way, especially when we're counselled not to by the Lord's servants.

someone who would push general American ideals and put a stop or slow down the march toward global tyranny. He is doing, or trying to do just that. Which is a lot; and is probably all we can expect at this time . . . for now.

This may be true. Perhaps our economy will grow during his tenure. It looks like he's serious about not giving money to countries who work against us. I personally agree with that being a reasonable approach. I'm happy that he's moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem. Whatever his motivations are, I suspect this is an example of the Lord's will moving forward, or at least of his prophecy being fulfilled.

I think Trump's supposed moral turpitude is probably greatly exaggerated, which is what those who have known him for 40 years or more also say.

I wouldn't expect those who hang around him for that long to be put off by moral turpitude. It's likely they can relate. I've heard enough from those who have done business with him or who've worked with him (those who were not partisan) to feel confident that my impression of his character is not mistaken.

I do see the man as speaking his mind and telling the truth the way he sees it in a given moment.

Speaking your mind is great and shows a strong will, but it requires wisdom and discretion to pull it off wisely as the president. The president is our chief diplomat. If he can't be diplomatic, then we have a problem. I hope he will learn to watch his tongue, and his twitter feed, because everything he says has an impact on our international and domestic affairs. Even honest people have to watch their tongues.

He is also a man that isn't governed by fear.

I disagree, and here is one area where moral character really comes into play. I see his tendency to lash out at people who do not agree with him as a sign of insecurity and of poor judgment. I believe he is afraid of being a "failure". I appreciate that we should be firm with nations like North Korea, and that for the past several years we haven't been. Only now I feel like the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. We've gone from Obama shrinking before our adversaries to Trump antagonizing our adversaries in public. Sure, take that approach when you're face to face - in private - with Kim Jung Un or his spokesman. Trump does not seem to realize he's burning down diplomatic bridges, backing dangerous enemies into corners, and destroying their ability to bow out gracefully and save face with their people, something they cannot afford to let happen. A cornered friend will not remain friends for long. A cornered enemy is very dangerous.

Off the cuff insults may work in business, but business strategies and diplomatic strategies are not the same thing. His approach is way too personal and very immature, like a school kid in a fight shouting "So's your mother!" We need a few of those bridges at least to remain intact; allies are crucial to our safety! I only hope someone will begin to get through to him and redirect his fighting business energy in a safer, more productive direction.

But if he's truly set on governing via visceral reaction rather than consulting with his experts and thinking through what he is going to say, then that worries me. I believe it puts us in a precarious position and may leave us vulnerable and alone. We need to be able to trust our president to put our national safety above scoring points for his own ego. A person of strong moral character would be humble and wise enough to do that.

And there is no way Trump could run as a Democrat, whose ideals and ideas of government, including what the purview of government should be, is skewed way out of what has heretofore been the normal range. Watch him being interviewed by Letterman here (posted elsewhere on this forum): https://youtu.be/wVsAir5fDbs , a short clip. You can see that he is much the same now as he was back then and is saying the same things. Likewise, in an interview I recently saw of him by Oprah back in 1981.

I had some time this morning so I browsed through the interviews. Very interesting. Trump comes off as your run of the mill business guy and there is even a foreshadowing of him running for president one day.

If that's all I knew about him, I would have had no qualms voting for him. If I didn't know what I know about the shady mafia business deals and prostitution rings that are deeply imbedded with running a successful casino in Vegas or to being a successful real estate developer in New York maybe I would be open to trusting his character. If he hadn't gone on the air with people like Howard Stern and said the vile things that he did, in addition to cheating more than once on his spouses, I would have been more open to giving him a pass on current rumors of infidelity and sexual misconduct.

He's our president now. What remains is for all of us to ignore the lure of the "All is Well!" sales pitch and call him out if he strays into dangerous territory.

Donald Trump is a salesman first. How we respond to what he's selling us is on us.

I can’t say I love Trump, but I can say that my wife was charging at the ER, when one of his sons brought in his little boy, who got sick during a family ski trip. She told me she was quite surprised by how courteous and respectful he and his wife were, as well as enormously grateful as she treated the littlest Trump; demonstrating no ego at all.
My father was a wealthy and successful surgeon, who went from being a righteous man who loved his family, to trading us all in for a trophy wife. When I look at my older siblings, I see very good fruits; however, when I look at my younger half brother, I have to hold my nose, ‘cause that fruit is so spoiled rotten, it stinks(even more so, due to being thirty years old)!
My point(or rather, my wife’s) is that if Trump was as big of a douchebag as mainstream media makes him out to be, it would show in his children, one way or another.
I heard someone on here wonder if he isn’t a modern day Morianton, as referenced in Ether.

[LatterDayLizard]

Larsenb thank you, your comments were thoughtful and deserved some pondering. My responses are in blue.

Trump didn't put himself forward as a moral paragon.

That's true, so why didn't we listen to him? We knew what he was when he picked him up.

He put himself forward as someone who just might be able to turn our economic, etc., malaise around,

That's also true. So has every corrupt leader who ever became infamous. I know it's overused and inflammatory, but I'll use it - in the beginning of his administration, Hitler built the Autobahn and implemented policies which served to raise the economy and to make Germans proud to be German again. They wanted to feel good about their country and prosper again so badly they were willing to look the other way and shrug off the early warning signs. Now I'm not saying that Trump will become Adolf Hitler. I'm merely pointing out the hazardous pattern of lowering our standards and putting up with stuff when we want something badly enough, or are so afraid of the consequences (Hillary Clinton) that we'll look the other way, especially when we're counselled not to by the Lord's servants.

someone who would push general American ideals and put a stop or slow down the march toward global tyranny. He is doing, or trying to do just that. Which is a lot; and is probably all we can expect at this time . . . for now.

This may be true. Perhaps our economy will grow during his tenure. It looks like he's serious about not giving money to countries who work against us. I personally agree with that being a reasonable approach. I'm happy that he's moving the capital of Israel to Jerusalem. Whatever his motivations are, I suspect this is an example of the Lord's will moving forward, or at least of his prophecy being fulfilled.

I think Trump's supposed moral turpitude is probably greatly exaggerated, which is what those who have known him for 40 years or more also say.

I wouldn't expect those who hang around him for that long to be put off by moral turpitude. It's likely they can relate. I've heard enough from those who have done business with him or who've worked with him (those who were not partisan) to feel confident that my impression of his character is not mistaken.

I do see the man as speaking his mind and telling the truth the way he sees it in a given moment.

Speaking your mind is great and shows a strong will, but it requires wisdom and discretion to pull it off wisely as the president. The president is our chief diplomat. If he can't be diplomatic, then we have a problem. I hope he will learn to watch his tongue, and his twitter feed, because everything he says has an impact on our international and domestic affairs. Even honest people have to watch their tongues.

He is also a man that isn't governed by fear.

I disagree, and here is one area where moral character really comes into play. I see his tendency to lash out at people who do not agree with him as a sign of insecurity and of poor judgment. I believe he is afraid of being a "failure". I appreciate that we should be firm with nations like North Korea, and that for the past several years we haven't been. Only now I feel like the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. We've gone from Obama shrinking before our adversaries to Trump antagonizing our adversaries in public. Sure, take that approach when you're face to face - in private - with Kim Jung Un or his spokesman. Trump does not seem to realize he's burning down diplomatic bridges, backing dangerous enemies into corners, and destroying their ability to bow out gracefully and save face with their people, something they cannot afford to let happen. A cornered friend will not remain friends for long. A cornered enemy is very dangerous.

Off the cuff insults may work in business, but business strategies and diplomatic strategies are not the same thing. His approach is way too personal and very immature, like a school kid in a fight shouting "So's your mother!" We need a few of those bridges at least to remain intact; allies are crucial to our safety! I only hope someone will begin to get through to him and redirect his fighting business energy in a safer, more productive direction.

But if he's truly set on governing via visceral reaction rather than consulting with his experts and thinking through what he is going to say, then that worries me. I believe it puts us in a precarious position and may leave us vulnerable and alone. We need to be able to trust our president to put our national safety above scoring points for his own ego. A person of strong moral character would be humble and wise enough to do that.

And there is no way Trump could run as a Democrat, whose ideals and ideas of government, including what the purview of government should be, is skewed way out of what has heretofore been the normal range. Watch him being interviewed by Letterman here (posted elsewhere on this forum): https://youtu.be/wVsAir5fDbs , a short clip. You can see that he is much the same now as he was back then and is saying the same things. Likewise, in an interview I recently saw of him by Oprah back in 1981.

I had some time this morning so I browsed through the interviews. Very interesting. Trump comes off as your run of the mill business guy and there is even a foreshadowing of him running for president one day.

If that's all I knew about him, I would have had no qualms voting for him. If I didn't know what I know about the shady mafia business deals and prostitution rings that are deeply imbedded with running a successful casino in Vegas or to being a successful real estate developer in New York maybe I would be open to trusting his character. If he hadn't gone on the air with people like Howard Stern and said the vile things that he did, in addition to cheating more than once on his spouses, I would have been more open to giving him a pass on current rumors of infidelity and sexual misconduct.

He's our president now. What remains is for all of us to ignore the lure of the "All is Well!" sales pitch and call him out if he strays into dangerous territory.

Donald Trump is a salesman first. How we respond to what he's selling us is on us.

I can’t say I love Trump, but I can say that my wife was charging at the ER, when one of his sons brought in his little boy, who got sick during a family ski trip. She told me she was quite surprised by how courteous and respectful he and his wife were, as well as enormously grateful as she treated the littlest Trump; demonstrating no ego at all.
My father was a wealthy and successful surgeon, who went from being a righteous man who loved his family, to trading us all in for a trophy wife. When I look at my older siblings, I see very good fruits; however, when I look at my younger half brother, I have to hold my nose, ‘cause that fruit is so spoiled rotten, it stinks(even more so, due to being thirty years old)!
My point(or rather, my wife’s) is that if Trump was as big of a douchebag as mainstream media makes him out to be, it would show in his children, one way or another.
I heard someone on here wonder if he isn’t a modern day Morianton, as referenced in Ether.

I can respect that. And please don't assume I'm directing my next comment at you, but it brings up an interesting point.

I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

[Fiannan]

I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

Where do you get those positive vibes about McMullin?

[larsenb]

. . . .
I can’t say I love Trump, but I can say that my wife was charging at the ER, when one of his sons brought in his little boy, who got sick during a family ski trip. She told me she was quite surprised by how courteous and respectful he and his wife were, as well as enormously grateful as she treated the littlest Trump; demonstrating no ego at all.
My father was a wealthy and successful surgeon, who went from being a righteous man who loved his family, to trading us all in for a trophy wife. When I look at my older siblings, I see very good fruits; however, when I look at my younger half brother, I have to hold my nose, ‘cause that fruit is so spoiled rotten, it stinks(even more so, due to being thirty years old)!
My point(or rather, my wife’s) is that if Trump was as big of a douchebag as mainstream media makes him out to be, it would show in his children, one way or another.
I heard someone on here wonder if he isn’t a modern day Morianton, as referenced in Ether.

Exactly. In my view, LDL is too caught up in all the negative stories floated about Trump through the years. I knew next to nothing about him before the election, and even looked into a number of these negative stories and found them almost invariably exaggerated or spun.

That he may have worked with shady characters, doesn't mean that he hasn't worked with a lot of very upstanding people as well. At least one of these claims about him working w/shady characters turned out that the people or person he was working with didn't delve into outright criminality until after their involvement with Trump. So it became guilt by retroactive decree.

He interviewed w/Howard Stern? So did Donny Osmond and many, many other well known celebrities you normally respect. Did he say some rather risque things during one or more interviews? Could be, I've never listened to any. Males, especially those w/little Church/religious upbringing or who are not actively pursuing a relation w/God, and have the added advantage of being full of self-confidence, are tall and handsome and able to make a lot of money by constructive effort, can easily lapse into rather libidinous behavior, and demeanor. It's actually like falling off a log. Have you ever heard the adage that G.. made men with a brain and genitilia, but only gave them enough blood to run one at a time? Oops, that may be too risque for this forum . . . but a lot of truth to it.

Where people who lean toward religious judgmentality miss the boat is that such lapses by someone as Trump. doesn't necessarily define them in their more reflective and normal life styles. Many who know Trump have all said that his long working hours would preclude him doing all the thing people claim he has done. Dr. Jerome Corsi, Harvard PhD, is one of them. Trump's outstanding and apparently upstanding kids attest to that.

He does like and cultivate the limelight, though. He revels in it. No doubt about it.

I simply think LDL misreads the man . . . which is a phenomenon he seems to elicit in a certain range of people. Fear? Nope. A lot of his hitting back is deserved by those targeted. But Trump does get a bit too carried away in this department sometimes and could probably do well do temper this behavior a bit . . . . but not too much . . . else Trump wouldn't be Trump.

[larsenb]

I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

The other side of the coin, is that you can be a good family and church man and be very bad in other ways outside of these arenas, especially in politics.

Myself, I have a number of very specific things regarding Mitt's behavior, his words and what I see as a low awareness level of what our awful situation is, etc., that removes him from being a good, viable political operator, candidate and leader.

This is doubly so w/McMullin. I could enumerate these reasons, but theyv'e already been adequately mentioned in multiple threads and posts on this forum. And I have yet to see anyone who really likes Romney or McMullin as political leaders being swayed by any of these reasons. There is definitely some impermeability there.

OK, I relent, a bit. One generality regarding McMullin, is that for me, he falls into a neoconservative, left of center political category. He is a never Trumper. Has no real clue about 'our awful situation', in fact seems to be allied with those heavily involved in creating this situation. In a recent Deseret News article, BIll Kristol claimed that he was the one that convinced McMullin to run for the Presidency so late in the game. By McMullin's own words, he did so only to help move the election into the House, with the object of blocking Trump. All of this activity only added to the relative number of votes garnered by Hillary. Bill Kristol is an arch-neoconservative and a co-author of PNAC. If you don't know what all this means, it should underscore why anything I say will NOT sway your opinion.

A specific example. In an interview, he claimed to be a CIA Station Chief in a Middle Eastern country (which a former CIA spook friend of mine says doesn't seem likely in view of his age and experience at the time). The interviewer asked him if he had killed anyone. He said: "~Not directly. My job was to single out those needing killing". BIngo! He automatically drops of off my list.

And so many other reasons . . . . .

[larsenb]

. . . . I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

Here is some info on Mitt posted by moonwhim at: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=47550#p832152

Mitt Romney: Just Another Corrupt Bush Son
https://aim4truth.org/2018/01/06/mitt-r ... -bush-son/

You would have course have to do your own checking to verify these claims, but it certainly doesn't give me any warm fuzzies regarding Mitt Romney. I do generally trust the aim4truth site and those posting and being interviewed there.

[Fiannan]

Utah will vote for a Republican for senate, that is certain. Mitt would probably be just another John McCain/Lindsey Graham sort of Republican. So anyone else would be better.

[capctr]

I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

The other side of the coin, is that you can be a good family and church man and be very bad in other ways outside of these arenas, especially in politics.

Myself, I have a number of very specific things regarding Mitt's behavior, his words and what I see as a low awareness level of what our awful situation is, etc., that removes him from being a good, viable political operator, candidate and leader.

This is doubly so w/McMullin. I could enumerate these reasons, but theyv'e already been adequately mentioned in multiple threads and posts on this forum. And I have yet to see anyone who really likes Romney or McMullin as political leaders being swayed by any of these reasons. There is definitely some impermeability there.

OK, I relent, a bit. One generality regarding McMullin, is that for me, he falls into a neoconservative, left of center political category. He is a never Trumper. Has no real clue about 'our awful situation', in fact seems to be allied with those heavily involved in creating this situation. In a recent Deseret News article, BIll Kristol claimed that he was the one that convinced McMullin to run for the Presidency so late in the game. By McMullin's own words, he did so only to help move the election into the House, with the object of blocking Trump. All of this activity only added to the relative number of votes garnered by Hillary. Bill Kristol is an arch-neoconservative and a co-author of PNAC. If you don't know what all this means, it should underscore why anything I say will NOT sway your opinion.

A specific example. In an interview, he claimed to be a CIA Station Chief in a Middle Eastern country (which a former CIA spook friend of mine says doesn't seem likely in view of his age and experience at the time). The interviewer asked him if he had killed anyone. He said: "~Not directly. My job was to single out those needing killing". BIngo! He automatically drops of off my list.

And so many other reasons . . . . .

Let’s not forget ol’ Reid...how was that guy ever a stake president?

[EmmaLee]

Let’s not forget ol’ Reid...how was that guy ever a stake president?

Great question. I don't know the answer, but for some reason this scripture came to mind immediately upon reading your query -

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It also made me think of a previous Primary president in our ward, who, WHILE she was serving in that calling, marched in our town's summer parade holding one end of a huge Planned Parenthood banner (our Bishop and his family of young children were standing next to us on the sidelines and witnessed her doing this - she was not released) - and she actively advocated for any/all socialist, feminist, anti-Christ (but I repeat myself...) causes and political candidates. The extreme irony and sadness of a Primary president (of all Church positions to be in) advocating for the murder of innocent children was (is) almost more than I could stand.

[capctr]

Let’s not forget ol’ Reid...how was that guy ever a stake president?

Great question. I don't know the answer, but for some reason this scripture came to mind immediately upon reading your query -

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

It also made me think of a previous Primary president in our ward, who, WHILE she was serving in that calling, marched in our town's summer parade holding one end of a huge Planned Parenthood banner (our Bishop and his family of young children were standing next to us on the sidelines and witnessed her doing this - she was not released) - and she actively advocated for any/all socialist, feminist, anti-Christ (but I repeat myself...) causes and political candidates. The extreme irony and sadness of a Primary president (of all Church positions to be in) advocating for the murder of innocent children was (is) almost more than I could stand.

I also think of reid’s involvement with this whole pentagon/ufo foolishness, and then realized(again, today, as the City if Enoch was discussed in gospel doctrine today), it is the way of the adversary to sensationalize and mislead people into strange paths. If people can get wrapped up in “alien invaders”, maybe it’ll help them misjudge the events of the return of Enoch’s City?

[larsenb]

I find it inconsistent when those who've called out people like Romney or McMullin for being wolves in sheeps clothing (hiding beneath a friendly demeanor/nice family) argue that Trumps friendly demeanor away from the spotlight is evidence of him being a good guy.

The other side of the coin, is that you can be a good family and church man and be very bad in other ways outside of these arenas, especially in politics.

Myself, I have a number of very specific things regarding Mitt's behavior, his words and what I see as a low awareness level of what our awful situation is, etc., that removes him from being a good, viable political operator, candidate and leader.

This is doubly so w/McMullin. I could enumerate these reasons, but theyv'e already been adequately mentioned in multiple threads and posts on this forum. And I have yet to see anyone who really likes Romney or McMullin as political leaders being swayed by any of these reasons. There is definitely some impermeability there.

OK, I relent, a bit. One generality regarding McMullin, is that for me, he falls into a neoconservative, left of center political category. He is a never Trumper. Has no real clue about 'our awful situation', in fact seems to be allied with those heavily involved in creating this situation. In a recent Deseret News article, BIll Kristol claimed that he was the one that convinced McMullin to run for the Presidency so late in the game. By McMullin's own words, he did so only to help move the election into the House, with the object of blocking Trump. All of this activity only added to the relative number of votes garnered by Hillary. Bill Kristol is an arch-neoconservative and a co-author of PNAC. If you don't know what all this means, it should underscore why anything I say will NOT sway your opinion.

A specific example. In an interview, he claimed to be a CIA Station Chief in a Middle Eastern country (which a former CIA spook friend of mine says doesn't seem likely in view of his age and experience at the time). The interviewer asked him if he had killed anyone. He said: "~Not directly. My job was to single out those needing killing". BIngo! He automatically drops of off my list.

And so many other reasons . . . . .

Let’s not forget ol’ Reid...how was that guy ever a stake president?

He was??! Rather astonishing in my view.

[Fiannan]

What if things are far worse than what most people understand? What if government it more immoral than what most people believe? And what if many in government who come out against Trump are afraid that the things they are guilty of might come to light if they don't do as they are told?

[LatterDayLizard]

I don't trust the sources being referenced on this thread, so I guess we're at an impasse.

Avoiding dubious sources was addressed during conference, as well as helping refugees, avoiding nationalism, and moving away from extreme partisanship. I hope Trump is listening.

What I'm hearing on this forum is a hyper-focus on conspiracy theories and a willingness to lower the bar, just as long as we get the policy we want.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Durzan]

The issue is that most news sources nowadays can be considered at least a tad bit dubious to say the least.

[iWriteStuff]

I don't trust the sources being referenced on this thread, so I guess we're at an impasse.

Avoiding dubious sources was addressed during conference, as well as helping refugees, avoiding nationalism, and moving away from extreme partisanship. I hope Trump is listening.

What I'm hearing on this forum is a hyper-focus on conspiracy theories and a willingness to lower the bar, just as long as we get the policy we want.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Avoiding nationalism is actually a theme as old as the church itself. Per Brigham Young,

"Very closely allied to this party spirit is the national feeling that some exhibit. This national feeling is another feature of "Gentilism." "Gentilism" breaks up the family of man, and divides them off into parties and nations, having contrary interests. "Mormonism," on the other hand, by drawing them from all nations unites the family of man. There are good and bad qualities in all nations. All real Saints, when they receive the Gospel, will readily relinquish party spirit and national feeling, and count such things as the distinctive ornaments of Satan's kingdom.

"Sustain those principles that do away with and destroy this feeling of nationality that is in the hearts of individuals."

Just sayin'.

USA! USA! USA! USA!