Deleted

[Rand]

If as it says in 1 For 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
Q: Who is the head of every child? A: Woman.
Q How many children can a woman be the head of? A: Many
Q: How many men can Christ be the head of? A: Many
Q How many Saviors can the Father be the head of? A: Many
Q How many woman can a man be the head of? A: Only one. :-0

Seems to break the divine pattern doesn't it?

[harakim]

‘Putting away his wife’ means setting aside a sacred bond between you and your spouse and allowing another woman to become a part of that sacred bond irrespective of the first wife’s feelings or emotions. Christ isn’t saying it’s OK to get sealed to multiple women if a first, second or third wife dies, he is trying to get the human race to see that once two people are joined at the hip in marriage, they are one flesh, a single entity in the eyes of the Lord, bonded together as one. Tihe only time it is OK for a man to marry another after being sealed to a woman is if his spouse desecrates that bond through adultery, fornication or immorality on her part. A wife’s death doesn’t give a man a heavenly license or the right to take multiple wives through sealing. Any man who adds another woman or multiple women to that bond is destroying the ‘one flesh’ and showing no concern and little love for his first wife in the process, especially when she has no say and is expected to just accept another woman as part of that sacred bond on the other side. No way that is ‘of God’. And like I’ve said many times… if women were ever allowed to take multiple husbands, watch how fast polygamy gets labeled an ‘abomination’ by men everywhere.

Why do we need a living Prophet when we have Col. Flagg to give us the mind and will of the Lord in all things! I take back my earlier statement. NUMBSKULL!

Well whatever you do, don't listen to the Spirit yourself.

[harakim]

Yes he is and it’s quite sad.

Though not out of character for him.

I love how when you take a stand against what's wrong and defend what's right here on the board and if it opposes what some of our Prophets or church leaders have said or done, even if it is in opposition to scripture, you're labeled a brethren-hater and apostate.

And let us not forget... President Hinckley made the following statement on Larry King Live on September 8, 1998 with regard to the practice of polygamy: "I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal".

I called you neither of those. I just find it funny when YOU say other people need to stop making exaggerated and bogus claims, because that’s what I have seen from you over the last many years. I said it wasn’t out of character for you because the bogus and exaggerated claims I’ve seen you make are in opposition to the church.

I hadn’t yet chimed in about the polygamy debate. I really haven’t chosen a side of the polygamy issue, but when a guy’s wife dies and he gets sealed to a new spouse, I don’t view that as polygamy. I know you do.

Do we need to bust out the dictionary again? *sigh*
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polygamy
the practice or condition of having more than one spouse, especially wife, at one time.

Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So if you are sealed to one wife, then to another...

[cyclOps]

Though not out of character for him.

I love how when you take a stand against what's wrong and defend what's right here on the board and if it opposes what some of our Prophets or church leaders have said or done, even if it is in opposition to scripture, you're labeled a brethren-hater and apostate.

And let us not forget... President Hinckley made the following statement on Larry King Live on September 8, 1998 with regard to the practice of polygamy: "I condemn it, yes, as a practice, because I think it is not doctrinal".

I called you neither of those. I just find it funny when YOU say other people need to stop making exaggerated and bogus claims, because that’s what I have seen from you over the last many years. I said it wasn’t out of character for you because the bogus and exaggerated claims I’ve seen you make are in opposition to the church.

I hadn’t yet chimed in about the polygamy debate. I really haven’t chosen a side of the polygamy issue, but when a guy’s wife dies and he gets sealed to a new spouse, I don’t view that as polygamy. I know you do.

Do we need to bust out the dictionary again? *sigh*
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/polygamy
the practice or condition of having more than one spouse, especially wife, at one time.

Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

So if you are sealed to one wife, then to another...

Good for you! You found a dictionary!

I choose to view polygamy as a mortal issue because I think that’s where most people get hung up on it.As a spiritual matter I have no problem with it.

I know that whatever is bound on earth will be bound in heaven. I know that if a man is sealed to his first wife, she dies, and he gets sealed to another wife, then he is sealed and spiritually married to more than one woman. I have no issues with that. But he is not legally married to more than one wife which is how I define polygamy, and your dictionary doesn’t say I’m wrong again.

So, go ahead, bust it out and sigh all you want.

[Col. Flagg]

I hadn’t yet chimed in about the polygamy debate. I really haven’t chosen a side of the polygamy issue, but when a guy’s wife dies and he gets sealed to a new spouse, I don’t view that as polygamy. I know you do.

Um, polygamy = more than 1.

[Fiannan]

Polygamy or advancing the idea that single motherhood through eugenic breeding programs (sperm donation) is the only way that developed nations will be able to maintain their populations. If you disagree please share your ideas.

[Z2100]

But when it's a form of adoption for someone with no family at all, that needs a home and brought in as adopted children or an adopted wife then it's not evil.

That's exactly what Joseph Smith Jr. did. It is a commandment to take care of widows and orphans. JS adopted several widows into his family.

[cyclOps]

I hadn’t yet chimed in about the polygamy debate. I really haven’t chosen a side of the polygamy issue, but when a guy’s wife dies and he gets sealed to a new spouse, I don’t view that as polygamy. I know you do.

Um, polygamy = more than 1.

Read my post right above this one I’m quoting. Thanks.

[Sunain]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

[BruceRGilbert]

2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

Jacob 2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The "Law of Sarah:"

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

A Pattern is Established: "Gifting" for "Posterity."

Sister Wives:

Genesis 29:15 And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? tell me, what shall thy wages be?

16 And Laban had two daughters: the name of the elder was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel.

17 Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured.

18 And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.

19 And Laban said, It is better that I give her to thee, than that I should give her to another man: abide with me.

20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.

21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her.

22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.

23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.

24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.

25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?

26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.

27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.

28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.

29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.

30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the Lord hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.

33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the Lord hath heard that I was hated, he hath therefore given me this son also: and she called his name Simeon.

34 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the Lord: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

Genesis 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.

4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.

5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.

6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

7 And Bilhah Rachel’s maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.

8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

9 When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.

10 And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a son.

11 And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.

12 And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a second son.

13 And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

14 And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son’s mandrakes.

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son’s mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son’s mandrakes.

16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son’s mandrakes. And he lay with her that night.

17 And God hearkened unto Leah, and she conceived, and bare Jacob the fifth son.

18 And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.

19 And Leah conceived again, and bare Jacob the sixth son.

20 And Leah said, God hath endued me with a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.

21 And afterwards she bare a daughter, and called her name Dinah.

22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.

23 And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach:

24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, The Lord shall add to me another son.

25 And it came to pass, when Rachel had born Joseph, that Jacob said unto Laban, Send me away, that I may go unto mine own place, and to my country.

26 Give me my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.

27 And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.

28 And he said, Appoint me thy wages, and I will give it.

And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God . . . .

[Col. Flagg]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

[cyclOps]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

[Col. Flagg]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

[Arenera]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

Here is the answer for you,

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Some years ago an associate of mine lost his beloved wife. She died after a lingering illness, and he watched in helpless agony as the doctors withdrew all hope.

One day near the end she told him that when she was gone she wanted him to marry again and he was not to wait too long a time. He protested! The children were nearly grown and he would go the rest of the way alone.

She turned away and wept and said, “Have I been such a failure that after all our years together you would rather go unmarried? Have I been such a failure?”

In due time there came another, and their life together has reaffirmed his faith in marriage. And I have the feeling that his first beloved wife is deeply grateful to the second one, who filled the place that she could not keep.

[InfoWarrior82]

I feel like there's a lot of people here that think that Pres. Nelson married his two wives when they were both alive. Why even attempt to use that strawman as a justification against being sealed to another woman after your first wife dies?

[Arenera]

Source

For young Russell Nelson, the decision to be a doctor, made when he was about 15 years old, was an easy one. “I’ve always wanted to know what ‘truth’ is,” he said. “That’s why I gravitated toward the exact sciences — math, chemistry and physics, for example. Nothing is as rewarding for me as tackling a problem and finding out what the truth is.”

His search for truth took him to the University of Utah, where the Salt Lake City native began his march toward a medical degree, with only occasional stops for extracurricular activities.

On one occasion, a teacher at the U. of U. drafted 18-year-old Russell to play a role in “Hayfoot, Stawfoot,” a musical production at the university. “I resisted doing it,” he remembered. “I was more concerned about passing biology than about being in some play.”

But somehow the 18-year-old student was convinced to join the show. As he dragged himself into Kingsbury Hall for the first rehearsal, his nose buried in a book, he happened to glance at the stage where a brunette actress with a voice as lovely as her face was singing.

“Who’s that?” he asked the teacher who had enlisted him.

“That’s Dantzel White,” said the teacher. “She’s your leading lady.”

Suddenly, the play became more important to young Nelson. “I had the feeling right then that she would be my wife,” he said.

The Nelsons were married (he proposed to her in a pea patch at the White family home in Perry, Utah) in the Salt Lake Temple Aug. 31, 1945, just two months after he received a bachelor’s degree from the U. of U.

The young couple struggled for the next two years as Elder Nelson studied his way through medical school. Dantzel supported the family by working as a school teacher during the day and as a music store clerk in the evenings. Still, money was tight.

[cyclOps]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

I’ve heard of multiple wives who want their husband to remarry if they die. And many of times where the wife did die and the husband did remarry. I don’t know specifically about wanting them to reseal, but I think it could just as easily be the case.

And to your second paragraph, I really can’t say because it’s hypothetical. I would guess if it was revelation received by the prophet then the spirit would bear witness to its truthfulness and many would accept it. Some might not and might fall away, just as in other similar revelations. I don’t see it happening because there is no purpose.

[skmo]

Col: I hate to be the one to break the news to you but Jesus most likely practiced polygamy (Mary, Martha and Mary Magdalene).

Would you believe me if I told you Jesus did not practice polygamy?

If you could make a good case for your position.

That would be an impossibility, actually. Well, absent a divine messenger heralding Light and Knowledge from the Hand of God. You can argue scriptural basis (which is inconclusive) opinions and beliefs (which are hearsay) and personal feelings, which are irrelevant to making a case.

[skmo]

Would you believe me if I said it was revealed to me by a true messenger from Father?

No.

I would also recommend no one, - NO ONE - ever believe when someone tells you something like that. You included. If you believe God told you, it's yours. If it's as a revelation as steward of a family, possibly them.

Emphatically, definitively, and absolutely I would recommend no one ever believe someone who says God revealed something to them.

:edited to add:

The exceptions to this are ordained prophets speaking to us to give us God's Word under His direction.

[skmo]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

[skmo]

Obviously, too many here have their own opinion, which leads to a stupor of thought

AND

You're really criticizing 12 of our 17 prophets?

Yes he is and it’s quite sad.

I don't think there's an issue on these boards that mystify me more about how effective satan is at screwing up LDS people that this ridiculous lunacy over polygamy.

IT - DOES - NOT - MATTER.

The only possible way that sealings of spouses for ETERNITY could be a problem is if you believe God is a cruel heartless, and mean being. If that is the case, I propose you have much bigger issues to deal with.

Not only is God just, He's also merciful and loving. Oh, and He's also OMNISCIENT and OMNIPOTENT. He knows and can help us when these things are actually relevant rather than just potentially at some future point about which we know almost nothing at present.

God will not force anyone to be sealed to someone to whom they do not wish to be sealed. What the bloody frick does it matter what the rules are about Celestial Sealing in Eternity is to us in this life? There are so many things we know - KNOW - we need to do and worry about in this life, it is senseless to worry about things we don't. If we live righteously and follow our covenants in this life, we have already been promised we'll have exaltation. Do any of us know what that looks like? No.

I'm relatively certain there are many things about relationships and a great number of other aspects of eternal progress in the next life that we don't know about now, but if it were necessary for us to know now, we would. For someone to get upset now about an aspect of eternity we don't know everything about here and now is like a 5 year old getting upset that he or she can't wear just their superhero underwear to church.

[BeNotDeceived]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

Genetically, my cousins are my half brothers and sisters.

Human Life began with just Adam and Eve, and then 8 from Noah.

Go figure

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

[skmo]

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Happened on my mission. A 4 year old boy in primary took off everything but his new Superman Underoos of which he was very proud. His mother was mortified when she got there to collect him.

[Col. Flagg]

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

Here is the answer for you,

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Some years ago an associate of mine lost his beloved wife. She died after a lingering illness, and he watched in helpless agony as the doctors withdrew all hope.

One day near the end she told him that when she was gone she wanted him to marry again and he was not to wait too long a time. He protested! The children were nearly grown and he would go the rest of the way alone.

She turned away and wept and said, “Have I been such a failure that after all our years together you would rather go unmarried? Have I been such a failure?”

In due time there came another, and their life together has reaffirmed his faith in marriage. And I have the feeling that his first beloved wife is deeply grateful to the second one, who filled the place that she could not keep.

There is your .01%.

[Col. Flagg]

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Happened on my mission. A 4 year old boy in primary took off everything but his new Superman Underoos of which he was very proud. His mother was mortified when she got there to collect him.

That just brought back memories of my young son watching a movie called 'Captain Underpants' - I'm probably scarred for life after seeing some of it. Yikes.