Deleted

[Arenera]

Source

For young Russell Nelson, the decision to be a doctor, made when he was about 15 years old, was an easy one. “I’ve always wanted to know what ‘truth’ is,” he said. “That’s why I gravitated toward the exact sciences — math, chemistry and physics, for example. Nothing is as rewarding for me as tackling a problem and finding out what the truth is.”

His search for truth took him to the University of Utah, where the Salt Lake City native began his march toward a medical degree, with only occasional stops for extracurricular activities.

On one occasion, a teacher at the U. of U. drafted 18-year-old Russell to play a role in “Hayfoot, Stawfoot,” a musical production at the university. “I resisted doing it,” he remembered. “I was more concerned about passing biology than about being in some play.”

But somehow the 18-year-old student was convinced to join the show. As he dragged himself into Kingsbury Hall for the first rehearsal, his nose buried in a book, he happened to glance at the stage where a brunette actress with a voice as lovely as her face was singing.

“Who’s that?” he asked the teacher who had enlisted him.

“That’s Dantzel White,” said the teacher. “She’s your leading lady.”

Suddenly, the play became more important to young Nelson. “I had the feeling right then that she would be my wife,” he said.

The Nelsons were married (he proposed to her in a pea patch at the White family home in Perry, Utah) in the Salt Lake Temple Aug. 31, 1945, just two months after he received a bachelor’s degree from the U. of U.

The young couple struggled for the next two years as Elder Nelson studied his way through medical school. Dantzel supported the family by working as a school teacher during the day and as a music store clerk in the evenings. Still, money was tight.

[cyclOps]

The women also know that they are the second person sealed (or more) to their husband who is already sealed to another women, so they have already accepted that. The onus just isn't on the husband in this decision. They don't have to agree to marry the man or get sealed. It's their decision also.

Edit for grammar

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

I’ve heard of multiple wives who want their husband to remarry if they die. And many of times where the wife did die and the husband did remarry. I don’t know specifically about wanting them to reseal, but I think it could just as easily be the case.

And to your second paragraph, I really can’t say because it’s hypothetical. I would guess if it was revelation received by the prophet then the spirit would bear witness to its truthfulness and many would accept it. Some might not and might fall away, just as in other similar revelations. I don’t see it happening because there is no purpose.

[skmo]

Col: I hate to be the one to break the news to you but Jesus most likely practiced polygamy (Mary, Martha and Mary Magdalene).

Would you believe me if I told you Jesus did not practice polygamy?

If you could make a good case for your position.

That would be an impossibility, actually. Well, absent a divine messenger heralding Light and Knowledge from the Hand of God. You can argue scriptural basis (which is inconclusive) opinions and beliefs (which are hearsay) and personal feelings, which are irrelevant to making a case.

[skmo]

Would you believe me if I said it was revealed to me by a true messenger from Father?

No.

I would also recommend no one, - NO ONE - ever believe when someone tells you something like that. You included. If you believe God told you, it's yours. If it's as a revelation as steward of a family, possibly them.

Emphatically, definitively, and absolutely I would recommend no one ever believe someone who says God revealed something to them.

:edited to add:

The exceptions to this are ordained prophets speaking to us to give us God's Word under His direction.

[skmo]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

[skmo]

Obviously, too many here have their own opinion, which leads to a stupor of thought

AND

You're really criticizing 12 of our 17 prophets?

Yes he is and it’s quite sad.

I don't think there's an issue on these boards that mystify me more about how effective satan is at screwing up LDS people that this ridiculous lunacy over polygamy.

IT - DOES - NOT - MATTER.

The only possible way that sealings of spouses for ETERNITY could be a problem is if you believe God is a cruel heartless, and mean being. If that is the case, I propose you have much bigger issues to deal with.

Not only is God just, He's also merciful and loving. Oh, and He's also OMNISCIENT and OMNIPOTENT. He knows and can help us when these things are actually relevant rather than just potentially at some future point about which we know almost nothing at present.

God will not force anyone to be sealed to someone to whom they do not wish to be sealed. What the bloody frick does it matter what the rules are about Celestial Sealing in Eternity is to us in this life? There are so many things we know - KNOW - we need to do and worry about in this life, it is senseless to worry about things we don't. If we live righteously and follow our covenants in this life, we have already been promised we'll have exaltation. Do any of us know what that looks like? No.

I'm relatively certain there are many things about relationships and a great number of other aspects of eternal progress in the next life that we don't know about now, but if it were necessary for us to know now, we would. For someone to get upset now about an aspect of eternity we don't know everything about here and now is like a 5 year old getting upset that he or she can't wear just their superhero underwear to church.

[BeNotDeceived]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

Genetically, my cousins are my half brothers and sisters.

Human Life began with just Adam and Eve, and then 8 from Noah.

Go figure

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

[skmo]

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Happened on my mission. A 4 year old boy in primary took off everything but his new Superman Underoos of which he was very proud. His mother was mortified when she got there to collect him.

[Col. Flagg]

The first wife who is on the other side never gives her approval in a second sealing for a man.

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

Here is the answer for you,

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Some years ago an associate of mine lost his beloved wife. She died after a lingering illness, and he watched in helpless agony as the doctors withdrew all hope.

One day near the end she told him that when she was gone she wanted him to marry again and he was not to wait too long a time. He protested! The children were nearly grown and he would go the rest of the way alone.

She turned away and wept and said, “Have I been such a failure that after all our years together you would rather go unmarried? Have I been such a failure?”

In due time there came another, and their life together has reaffirmed his faith in marriage. And I have the feeling that his first beloved wife is deeply grateful to the second one, who filled the place that she could not keep.

There is your .01%.

[Col. Flagg]

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Happened on my mission. A 4 year old boy in primary took off everything but his new Superman Underoos of which he was very proud. His mother was mortified when she got there to collect him.

That just brought back memories of my young son watching a movie called 'Captain Underpants' - I'm probably scarred for life after seeing some of it. Yikes.

[BeNotDeceived]

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Happened on my mission. A 4 year old boy in primary took off everything but his new Superman Underoos of which he was very proud. His mother was mortified when she got there to collect him.

Spiderman shorts are my fave.

[Arenera]

You don’t know that.

A man's wife passes away that he was sealed to, several months later he gets sealed to another wife - when did the first wife give permission for the second sealing? I guarantee you 99.9% of wives (at least those who really and truly loved their spouse) would never agree to allow their husbands to get sealed to another woman.

And CyclOps... what do you think would happen if the rules and roles of polygamy were reversed and women could take multiple husbands for themselves while the men were forbidden from taking multiple wives? Hint: the uproar of the century would ensue.

Here is the answer for you,

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... e?lang=eng

Some years ago an associate of mine lost his beloved wife. She died after a lingering illness, and he watched in helpless agony as the doctors withdrew all hope.

One day near the end she told him that when she was gone she wanted him to marry again and he was not to wait too long a time. He protested! The children were nearly grown and he would go the rest of the way alone.

She turned away and wept and said, “Have I been such a failure that after all our years together you would rather go unmarried? Have I been such a failure?”

In due time there came another, and their life together has reaffirmed his faith in marriage. And I have the feeling that his first beloved wife is deeply grateful to the second one, who filled the place that she could not keep.

There is your .01%.

So, the Jaredites also practiced polygamy.

2 Wherefore every man did cleave unto that which was his own, with his hands, and would not borrow neither would he lend; and every man kept the hilt of his sword in his right hand, in the defence of his property and his own life and of his wives and children.

[BruceRGilbert]

I have witnessed "self-less" love many times. It happened on my father's death bed when he informed me that it would be quite o.k. if his eternal companion wished to remarry after his death. It is at that point when the happiness of another supersedes that of oneself. It is the type of LOVE that self-sacrifice is made of and which prompted the Savior to descend below all things. The heart strings between soul mates cannot be drawn any tighter than when each desires the utmost happiness, well being and fulfillment of the other - no matter what the sacrifice.

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[Joel]

[harakim]

2 Samuel 12:7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the Lord, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.

Jacob 2:23 But the word of God burdens me because of your grosser crimes. For behold, thus saith the Lord: This people begin to wax in iniquity; they understand not the scriptures, for they seek to excuse themselves in committing whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

25 Wherefore, thus saith the Lord, I have led this people forth out of the land of Jerusalem, by the power of mine arm, that I might raise up unto me a righteous branch from the fruit of the loins of Joseph.

26 Wherefore, I the Lord God will not suffer that this people shall do like unto them of old.

27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;

28 For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts.

29 Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes.

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

The "Law of Sarah:"

Genesis 16:1 Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.

2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the Lord hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.

A Pattern is Established: "Gifting" for "Posterity."

Sister Wives:

Genesis 29:15 And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? tell me, what shall thy wages be?

16 And Laban had two daughters: the name of the elder was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel.

17 Leah was tender eyed; but Rachel was beautiful and well favoured.

18 And Jacob loved Rachel; and said, I will serve thee seven years for Rachel thy younger daughter.

19 And Laban said, It is better that I give her to thee, than that I should give her to another man: abide with me.

20 And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed unto him but a few days, for the love he had to her.

21 And Jacob said unto Laban, Give me my wife, for my days are fulfilled, that I may go in unto her.

22 And Laban gathered together all the men of the place, and made a feast.

23 And it came to pass in the evening, that he took Leah his daughter, and brought her to him; and he went in unto her.

24 And Laban gave unto his daughter Leah Zilpah his maid for an handmaid.

25 And it came to pass, that in the morning, behold, it was Leah: and he said to Laban, What is this thou hast done unto me? did not I serve with thee for Rachel? wherefore then hast thou beguiled me?

26 And Laban said, It must not be so done in our country, to give the younger before the firstborn.

27 Fulfil her week, and we will give thee this also for the service which thou shalt serve with me yet seven other years.

28 And Jacob did so, and fulfilled her week: and he gave him Rachel his daughter to wife also.

29 And Laban gave to Rachel his daughter Bilhah his handmaid to be her maid.

30 And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years.

31 And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.

32 And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the Lord hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.

33 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Because the Lord hath heard that I was hated, he hath therefore given me this son also: and she called his name Simeon.

34 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and said, Now this time will my husband be joined unto me, because I have born him three sons: therefore was his name called Levi.

35 And she conceived again, and bare a son: and she said, Now will I praise the Lord: therefore she called his name Judah; and left bearing.

Genesis 30:1 And when Rachel saw that she bare Jacob no children, Rachel envied her sister; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.

2 And Jacob’s anger was kindled against Rachel: and he said, Am I in God’s stead, who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?

3 And she said, Behold my maid Bilhah, go in unto her; and she shall bear upon my knees, that I may also have children by her.

4 And she gave him Bilhah her handmaid to wife: and Jacob went in unto her.

5 And Bilhah conceived, and bare Jacob a son.

6 And Rachel said, God hath judged me, and hath also heard my voice, and hath given me a son: therefore called she his name Dan.

7 And Bilhah Rachel’s maid conceived again, and bare Jacob a second son.

8 And Rachel said, With great wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, and I have prevailed: and she called his name Naphtali.

9 When Leah saw that she had left bearing, she took Zilpah her maid, and gave her Jacob to wife.

10 And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a son.

11 And Leah said, A troop cometh: and she called his name Gad.

12 And Zilpah Leah’s maid bare Jacob a second son.

13 And Leah said, Happy am I, for the daughters will call me blessed: and she called his name Asher.

14 And Reuben went in the days of wheat harvest, and found mandrakes in the field, and brought them unto his mother Leah. Then Rachel said to Leah, Give me, I pray thee, of thy son’s mandrakes.

15 And she said unto her, Is it a small matter that thou hast taken my husband? and wouldest thou take away my son’s mandrakes also? And Rachel said, Therefore he shall lie with thee to night for thy son’s mandrakes.

16 And Jacob came out of the field in the evening, and Leah went out to meet him, and said, Thou must come in unto me; for surely I have hired thee with my son’s mandrakes. And he lay with her that night.

17 And God hearkened unto Leah, and she conceived, and bare Jacob the fifth son.

18 And Leah said, God hath given me my hire, because I have given my maiden to my husband: and she called his name Issachar.

19 And Leah conceived again, and bare Jacob the sixth son.

20 And Leah said, God hath endued me with a good dowry; now will my husband dwell with me, because I have born him six sons: and she called his name Zebulun.

21 And afterwards she bare a daughter, and called her name Dinah.

22 And God remembered Rachel, and God hearkened to her, and opened her womb.

23 And she conceived, and bare a son; and said, God hath taken away my reproach:

24 And she called his name Joseph; and said, The Lord shall add to me another son.

25 And it came to pass, when Rachel had born Joseph, that Jacob said unto Laban, Send me away, that I may go unto mine own place, and to my country.

26 Give me my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and let me go: for thou knowest my service which I have done thee.

27 And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.

28 And he said, Appoint me thy wages, and I will give it.

And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God . . . .

Abraham came before the law of Moses, which I was quoting

[harakim]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

Pre law of Moses

[Col. Flagg]

Isn't it fascinating how, as a church, we practiced polygamy during Joseph's day and then especially after Brigham Young assumed the reigns, Joseph publicly denied ever having anything to do with the practice, it was doctrinal and then not doctrinal, most biblical and LDS scriptures condemn the practice as an abomination, then there was the manifesto which ended it all while a faction breaks off from the church which continues to practice polygamy as the mainstream church denounces it, several Prophets and Apostles since then are sealed to more than one woman as we continue to allow men to be sealed to multiple women in the temple (although not simultaneously), President Hinckley goes on national TV in 1998 and says polygamy is not doctrinal and now our current and next church President have more than one wife. For something that is an 'eternal principle', the practice has sure had wild swings in conviction while being convoluted with ups and downs as well as a ton of uncertainty. Interesting.

[Joel]

[abijah]

Isn't it fascinating how, as a church, we practiced polygamy during Joseph's day and then especially after Brigham Young assumed the reigns, Joseph publicly denied ever having anything to do with the practice, it was doctrinal and then not doctrinal, most biblical and LDS scriptures condemn the practice as an abomination, then there was the manifesto which ended it all while a faction breaks off from the church which continues to practice polygamy as the mainstream church denounces it, several Prophets and Apostles since then are sealed to more than one woman as we continue to allow men to be sealed to multiple women in the temple (although not simultaneously), President Hinckley goes on national TV in 1998 and says polygamy is not doctrinal and now our current and next church President have more than one wife. For something that is an 'eternal principle', the practice has sure had wild swings in conviction while being convoluted with ups and downs as well as a ton of uncertainty. Interesting.

The vacillation is due to the conflict between righteous men who were attempting to do as God commanded them, and a society with a very low tolerance for the practice. You have talked a lot about "the church". It might help to bear in mind what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is and what it is not. It is the restoration of Christ's original Church in it's most fundamental form, bringing with it the renewal of ecclesiastical priesthood authority and revelation. It is not however a fullness of truth, or of priesthood authority. It is not eternal, but a stepping stone to Zion, the Celestial Kingdom and the Church of the Firstborn. There are many higher, celestial laws not currently practiced in the LDS faith.

Given your distaste for plural marriage, I'm interested in how you reconcile that with the long list of spiritual giants who have practiced it, from ancient times up till this present dispensation.

[Fiannan]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

Genetically, my cousins are my half brothers and sisters.

Human Life began with just Adam and Eve, and then 8 from Noah.

Go figure

The dawning of SuperHero UnderWear is optional, but suggested when all else fails.

Abraham and Sarah had the same father.

Forgetting Lilith and her posterity? Anyway, things were probably way more complicated in the Garden of Eden than most people dare to suppose.

As for Noah, we have gone over that quite a bit. You see, the Book of Mormon says all, and I mean all, Jaradites perished. Yet how realistic is that? No people from that population ever broke off and left? No guy and his wife said, "Lets take the kids and find a quieter place to live?" The author of the histories wrote from his perspective and the same was true of Noah. His civilization and its cities perished and thus he lamented the loss in his records. You really think he was going to make note of primitive peoples in areas that were not flooded? To him they were probably not even part of humanity any more than an upper-class British colonial officer saw subjugated people as his equals.

[skmo]

Mary and Martha were sisters.

So were Rachel and Leah. Like I said, scriptures are inconclusive and/or contradictory.

Pre law of Moses

And we're post-LoM. Didn't apply to Jacob, doesn't apply to us. More importantly:

DOES - NOT - MATTER.

God has His Church. His church is run by His prophet. His prophets have given us His standards for us today regarding marriage. If you have faith in God and His restored gospel, live it how you think is best. If you don't like how your neighbor is living it, So What? He's not you, you're not him.

You (meaning generic anyone you) are free to believe I'm going to hell for drinking Cherry Coke. Of course if you tell me that I may thank you for your opinion and then tell you to go to hell, or more likely, just ignore you because you're not God. Your choices don't influence me unless I allow them to. Trust me on this one, I won't. I own my own mistakes and strengths.

[BruceRGilbert]

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
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16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
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22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

The only person that we ever will have hope in controlling is ourselves . . . and that only by the grace of God.

[EmmaLee]

Okay, probably need to repent now, but I have to admit - I actually laughed out loud.

[Benjamin_LK]

Polygamy or advancing the idea that single motherhood through eugenic breeding programs (sperm donation) is the only way that developed nations will be able to maintain their populations. If you disagree please share your ideas.

I would rather be married to every mother of my children than the other option. I would rather be committed than walk away.

[BeNotDeceived]

Isn't it fascinating how, as a church, we practiced polygamy during Joseph's day and then especially after Brigham Young assumed the reigns, Joseph publicly denied ever having anything to do with the practice, it was doctrinal and then not doctrinal, most biblical and LDS scriptures condemn the practice as an abomination, then there was the manifesto which ended it all while a faction breaks off from the church which continues to practice polygamy as the mainstream church denounces it, several Prophets and Apostles since then are sealed to more than one woman as we continue to allow men to be sealed to multiple women in the temple (although not simultaneously), President Hinckley goes on national TV in 1998 and says polygamy is not doctrinal and now our current and next church President have more than one wife. For something that is an 'eternal principle', the practice has sure had wild swings in conviction while being convoluted with ups and downs as well as a ton of uncertainty. Interesting.

Kinda, sorta like how wheat is good and bad at the same time; also eating fruit in the correct state and season.

It all comes down to your understanding of Lectins and proper meal preparation, lest you suffer food poisoning.

Unfortunately we are yet to discover The Grand Unification Theory of Matrimony to properly understand this seeming paradox. Perhaps we need to first master A2 Milk of the Plant Paradox, before we are able to properly digest the Meat of Celestial Glory.