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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

I wouldn't be surprised if they had a meeting already tomorrow.

drtanner
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by drtanner »

They don’t announce when they are called, but it becomes official when they are sustained at conference.

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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

President Hinckley's funeral was on 2 February 2008 and Monson was set apart as the president on 3 February 2008.

3 February 2008 was Sunday, the announcement was made on Monday 4 February.

gardener4life
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by gardener4life »

Inho's comment was good.

Also in the past...forgot which guy it was...but I think it was either Brigham Young's funeral or John Taylor's they realized that having the church leaderless very long wasn't a good idea and so from then on they tried to emphasize really short intervals between presidents.

sushi_chef
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by sushi_chef »

interesting, used to be set apart by the presiding patriarch....kinda departure from d&c, farther-son patriarchal line?!

"The news article failed to explain who ordains the new prophet. I have always believed that only one who has a higher power can ordain/set apart someone to that position. That is why in the beginning of the Church, the Church Patriarch who was equal to the Church President would always be one set apart/ordain the New President.. never was another apostle able to set up the President/Prophet of the Church. Maybe they vote on that too. :)
" http://barerecord.blogspot.jp/2018/01/4 ... th-of.html

"E. made the comment “Brigham Young made himself President.”

Then “they” changed and omitted the patriarch “in a hurry.”

When the announcement was made for his emeritus status, he was “relieved, but not released.” There was no discussion. He called the First Presidency’s office because he wanted “to know where (he) stood.” E. said, “Of course, they wouldn’t let me through.” I got a call back from the secretary to the First Presidency. (Hancock?) “I’m calling you on behalf of the First Presidency to inform you that they never wanted you to stop giving blessings. They want you to continue giving blessings.”

The Twelve control everything. Monson is a good man, patient, and kind, but “he is not strong enough to control the twelve.”

D. asked who were the strongest of the apostles then. E. answered, “I don’t know.”
" http://barerecord.blogspot.jp/2013/04/1 ... iarch.html

unappoachable secret chamber of 12 apostles?!
:arrow:

drtanner
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by drtanner »

drtanner wrote: January 12th, 2018, 4:06 pm They don’t announce when they are called, but it becomes official when they are sustained at conference.
I apologize I was incorrect inho’s comment is spot on. I somehow spaced remembering the announcement from President Hinckley to President Monson.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

If we don't have an announcement on Saturday the 13th, I expect an announcement no later than the Saturday the 20th.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

sushi_chef wrote: January 12th, 2018, 6:48 pm interesting, used to be set apart by the presiding patriarch....kinda departure from d&c, farther-son patriarchal line?!

"The news article failed to explain who ordains the new prophet. I have always believed that only one who has a higher power can ordain/set apart someone to that position. That is why in the beginning of the Church, the Church Patriarch who was equal to the Church President would always be one set apart/ordain the New President.. never was another apostle able to set up the President/Prophet of the Church. Maybe they vote on that too. :)
To what office of the Melchizedek priesthood is a president of the church ordained? What secret information do you have that you haven't bothered to share?

The church officially states that there are four offices of the Aaronic priesthood and five offices of the Melchizedek priesthood.
The Aaronic preisthood offices are deacon, teacher, priest, and bishop.
The Melchizedek priesthood offices are elder, high priest, patriarch, seventy, and apostle.

You can't be ordained to a priesthood office that doesn't exist. As far as being set apart, you may be set apart by anybody with the keys to perform that ordinance. And we are taught that all members of the Quorum of the Twelve hold all the priesthood keys that have been delegated to men. If the presiding patriarch holds the appropriate key then he can also set apart a church president, but since he doesn't hold the office of apostle he is unable to ordain a new apostle.

sushi_chef
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by sushi_chef »

ummm..., that means it was kinda just presiding patriarch eldred gs self mumblings....yet kinda thinks his belief in his calling might have been right and inspired....at least such custom was in history...
:arrow:

sushi_chef
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by sushi_chef »

interesting, prophet joseph in 1843 was inspired to tell that the highest office in church is presiding patriarch...

"
Which, ironically enough, would be identical to saying an “emeritus” President if we believe what Brother Joseph said about the office of Presiding Patriarch. Joseph Smith stated, “The patriarchal office is the highest office in the church, and father Smith conferred this office, on Hyrum Smith, on his deathbed.” He also stated that “Hyrum held the office of prophet to the church by birth-right.” ...."
https://search.yahoo.co.jp/search?ei=UT ... 0office%22

so, kinda emeritus president is possible...?!
:arrow:

sushi_chef
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by sushi_chef »

seems in order to reform 1st presidency they need to reinstate the highest office, presiding patriarch....when? beats sushi_ of course.
probably around lost tribes returns time...
:arrow:

samizdat
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by samizdat »

CelestialAngel wrote: January 12th, 2018, 2:22 pm It's been 10 days since President Monson passed away and they just completed the burial so do you suppose they will announce the new prophet and counselors on Monday after the weekend is over?
Probably this Sunday. Though there are surprises, I am not anticipating anything surprising.

President Nelson
President Eyring
President Uchtdorf
and President Oaks as President of the Q12.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

CelestialAngel wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:38 pm
brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:15 pm The church officially states that there are four offices of the Aaronic priesthood and five offices of the Melchizedek priesthood.
The Aaronic preisthood offices are deacon, teacher, priest, and bishop.
The Melchizedek priesthood offices are elder, high priest, patriarch, seventy, and apostle.

You can't be ordained to a priesthood office that doesn't exist. As far as being set apart, you may be set apart by anybody with the keys to perform that ordinance. And we are taught that all members of the Quorum of the Twelve hold all the priesthood keys that have been delegated to men. If the presiding patriarch holds the appropriate key then he can also set apart a church president, but since he doesn't hold the office of apostle he is unable to ordain a new apostle.
What about temple Sealer?
What keys does a temple sealer hold?

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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

I remember a discussion about ordain/set apart in another thread. Here is a quote, I posted there. It comes from Patrick A. Bishop's “The Apostolic Succession of Joseph F. Smith” (chapter in Joseph F. Smith: Reflections on the Man and His Times).
Joseph F. Smith was unanimously sustained as the President and was set apart as such by his brother, Patriarch John Smith. He chose his Counselors, John R. Winder and Anthon H. Lund.”[13] This action of the Patriarch to the Church setting apart the new President of the Church had never been done before. The question has been raised, did the patriarch have the authority to “set apart” the President of the Church?

The phrase “set apart” used in Elder Merrill’s journal is of great interest. Note that the terms “ordain,” “appoint,” “anoint,” and “bless” were not used in the account. Just two years earlier, the First Presidency and Twelve had had a lengthy discussion on this subject, a discussion which filled nearly six full pages in the Journal History of the Church dated April 13, 1899. The minutes of this meeting state, “A question as to the proper use of the terms ‘ordain’ and ‘set apart’ came up and was discussed at length.”[14] Elder Anthon Lund was the member of the quorum that brought the question up after “setting apart” a member of the presidency of the Seventy and not using the word “ordain.” The brethren in the meeting had many differing views on this subject. Some were of the view that prominent offices in the Church should use the word “ordain” instead of “set apart.” However, Joseph F. Smith was of the view that the Presidency of the Church is a prominent office, but the First Presidency are not ordained. . . . The words “set apart” used in the case of a President of Seventies were just as proper and appropriate as in the case of the Presidency of the Church, or in that of a Stake President, since it conferred no higher Priesthood upon either of them to call them to act in the Presidency of these several organizations.[15]

The latter reasoning is probably why Joseph F. Smith felt it proper to have his brother, the Patriarch to the Church, set him apart as President of the Church. Hoyt Brewster offers his own interpretation of this action:

While the patriarch [John Smith] did not hold the apostolic keys, one must understand that this setting apart was not a conferral of keys; for . . . President Joseph F. Smith already possessed the keys of the priesthood in their fulness by virtue of his apostolic office. This setting apart was simply the conferral of a priesthood blessing, which the patriarch, by virtue of his holding the Melchizedek Priesthood and having been invited by the senior apostle to do so, had a right to bestow.[16]

With this reasoning, there still seem to be questions regarding the terms “set apart” and “ordain” in connection with the President of the Church. Current publications state that the President of the Church is ordained and set apart. The official Church publications have used this language from David O. McKay to the present. The standard works even seem to suggest that ordination should be part of the call of the President of the Church: “Of the Melchizedek Priesthood, three Presiding High Priests, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church” (D&C 107:22). Note the words “appoint and ordain” to a “quorum.” Typically a quorum is a collection of multiple men that are ordained to an office in the priesthood. However, the Lord does state in this revelation that the minimum office needed to function in the “quorum of the Presidency of the Church” is high priest and not some other office in the priesthood. Thus the word “ordain” in the context of this 1835 revelation would have been appropriate, as the men called to the First Presidency would have also needed to be ordained to the appropriate office of high priest. Just as there seems to be no final consensus on this topic today, so it was on April 13, 1899, as the brethren were discussing it. Toward the end of the meeting, “President Snow expressed the belief that no further light would be obtained by discussing the question any longer,”[17] and the topic was tabled.

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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

I wonder if this is going to be it:
A Special Invitation for Tuesday, January 16

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from around the world are invited to participate in a live message from President Russell M. Nelson on Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 9:00 a.m. Mountain Standard Time. This message will be shared on all Church broadcast, internet and social media channels in 29 languages. President Nelson’s message will be followed by a press conference at 10:00 a.m. MST.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/ ... january-16

There is a thread about this special invitation: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47489

gardener4life
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by gardener4life »

brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 10:22 pm
CelestialAngel wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:38 pm
brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:15 pm The church officially states that there are four offices of the Aaronic priesthood and five offices of the Melchizedek priesthood.
The Aaronic preisthood offices are deacon, teacher, priest, and bishop.
The Melchizedek priesthood offices are elder, high priest, patriarch, seventy, and apostle.

You can't be ordained to a priesthood office that doesn't exist. As far as being set apart, you may be set apart by anybody with the keys to perform that ordinance. And we are taught that all members of the Quorum of the Twelve hold all the priesthood keys that have been delegated to men. If the presiding patriarch holds the appropriate key then he can also set apart a church president, but since he doesn't hold the office of apostle he is unable to ordain a new apostle.
What about temple Sealer?
What keys does a temple sealer hold?
Temple sealer is a key within the Priesthood. Please read D&C Section 110. This section reveals a lot about 'keys'. There are many priesthood keys that aren't really an office but are....well like a key really.

Here's a way of thinking about it.

D&C 110:11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come—
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse—
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

So several keys are identified;

Elias key of the gospel of Abraham & INHERITANCE of Abraham is what we earn in our worthiness & after enduring to the end. Applies to sisters as well.
Moses key; the gathering of the tribes of Israel...(missionary work is activated by the key to bring them back! How exciting and special that meaning is!)
Elijah; the key of family history. The temple sealing and temple blessings connect here! This is so exciting to think about. (...lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse-...shows that without the blessings of being able to be sealed to your families there would be no point to the plan of salvation. What would you be resurrected to? Loneliness...) D&C 128:18 ....It is sufficient to know, in this case, that the earth will be smitten with a curse unless there is a welding clink of some kind or other between the fathers and the children...
Keys of this dispensation given to the first presidency starting with Joseph Smith. This key is being held by the prophet down until the current day.
Also at some point Michael will return and he will preside with all the priesthood keys and then offer them back to the Savior. D&C 116:1 Spring Hill is named by the Lord Adam-ondi-Ahman, because, said he, it is the place where Adam shall come to visit his people, or the Ancient of Days shall sit, as spoken of by Daniel the prophet.

Also the presiding bishopric and Bishops of wards are a key and an office in a way. They are an office in the priesthood but also a 'key of temporal welfare' for the wards.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

Right now I'm pretty sure that a formal announcement of the reorganization of the First Presidency will happen at 16:00 GMT on Tuesday, 16 January 2018. As far as when the actual reorganization will happen, by which I mean when the members of the new presidency will be ordained, I have no idea.

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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

gardener4life wrote: January 13th, 2018, 6:16 pm Temple sealer is a key within the Priesthood. Please read D&C Section 110. This section reveals a lot about 'keys'. There are many priesthood keys that aren't really an office but are....well like a key really.
Encyclopedia of Mormonism:
The President of the Church holds and exercises the keys of sealing on earth. When a man is ordained an apostle and set apart as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, sealing is one of the powers bestowed upon him. Other General Authorities of the Church, the presidencies of temples, and a limited number of officiators in each temple receive this sealing power during their tenure. After one is approved by the First Presidency to receive the sealing power, the President of the Church, one of his counselors, or a member of the Twelve Apostles specifically designated by the President confers the sealing power upon him by the laying on of hands. This is the specific authority to perform the temple sealing ordinances.
Does that mean that a temple sealer has the key or is he working with delegated authority?
Mission president holds the keys of convert baptisms in his mission. Yet an elder may baptize. The elder doesn't have the key, he has authority from the mission president.
President of the church holds the sealing keys. Yet a temple sealer may seal. Does he have the key or just authority?

gardener4life
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by gardener4life »

inho wrote: January 14th, 2018, 12:45 am
gardener4life wrote: January 13th, 2018, 6:16 pm Temple sealer is a key within the Priesthood. Please read D&C Section 110. This section reveals a lot about 'keys'. There are many priesthood keys that aren't really an office but are....well like a key really.
Encyclopedia of Mormonism:
The President of the Church holds and exercises the keys of sealing on earth. When a man is ordained an apostle and set apart as a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, sealing is one of the powers bestowed upon him. Other General Authorities of the Church, the presidencies of temples, and a limited number of officiators in each temple receive this sealing power during their tenure. After one is approved by the First Presidency to receive the sealing power, the President of the Church, one of his counselors, or a member of the Twelve Apostles specifically designated by the President confers the sealing power upon him by the laying on of hands. This is the specific authority to perform the temple sealing ordinances.
Does that mean that a temple sealer has the key or is he working with delegated authority?
Mission president holds the keys of convert baptisms in his mission. Yet an elder may baptize. The elder doesn't have the key, he has authority from the mission president.
President of the church holds the sealing keys. Yet a temple sealer may seal. Does he have the key or just authority?
Very good question. This shows you've been thinking about this. Yes, the sealer has delegated authority but doesn't hold the full key.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

Watching the YA devotional yesterday, I noticed people refer to Dieter as Elder Uchtdorf. But he referred to himself as President Uchtdorf.

I wonder if he did so out of habit or if it's a hint about who will be in the new first presidency.

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inho
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by inho »

brianj wrote: January 15th, 2018, 10:10 pm Watching the YA devotional yesterday, I noticed people refer to Dieter as Elder Uchtdorf. But he referred to himself as President Uchtdorf.

I wonder if he did so out of habit or if it's a hint about who will be in the new first presidency.
Well, now we know that it was out of habit. (I cannot remember the exact quote, but could it be that he was quoting someone addressing him in the past?) The first presidency was formed on Sunday and Uchtdorf is no longer a president.

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Arenera
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by Arenera »

President Nelson
President Oaks
President Eyring

Eyring went from 1st to 2nd. President Ballard is now acting President of the Twelve.

brianj
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Re: When do you think they will reform the First Presidency?

Post by brianj »

brianj wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:19 pm Right now I'm pretty sure that a formal announcement of the reorganization of the First Presidency will happen at 16:00 GMT on Tuesday, 16 January 2018. As far as when the actual reorganization will happen, by which I mean when the members of the new presidency will be ordained, I have no idea.
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Light traffic for the drive home would be an excellent prize.

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