Why the pink hats may be out???

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Fiannan
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Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?

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True
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by True »

No.

Fiannan
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

At least they are admitting what the hats symbolize.

Gage
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Gage »

Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 7:30 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?

Awe how sweet. Females that cant stand one another coming together to protest equal rights for one another.

EmmaLee
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by EmmaLee »

Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 7:30 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?
Several active, recommend holding, women from our ward marched in our cities 'women's march' - wearing those stupid hats, too - and posted photos of themselves (with their children, who marched with them) on Facebook for all the world to see. The most outspoken woman among them is the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric. I noticed several other active LDS women I know from states out west posted photos of themselves (and again, their children were with them, as well) marching in their cities, too. Makes me sick.

Fiannan
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 11:57 am
Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 7:30 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?
Several active, recommend holding, women from our ward marched in our cities 'women's march' - wearing those stupid hats, too - and posted photos of themselves (with their children, who marched with them) on Facebook for all the world to see. The most outspoken woman among them is the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric. I noticed several other active LDS women I know from states out west posted photos of themselves (and again, their children were with them, as well) marching in their cities, too. Makes me sick.
So labia hats are something LDS women in your ward like to wear? Do they not get the tackiness of doing such a thing? maybe they should have dressed as full vaginas (like many women in these marches did) and then come to a Church social?

Still though, I do think it ironic that now the SJWs see it (as the article notes) as being a symbol of racism. You just can't make this stuff up.

I doubt the women who served in the temples of Inanna were so crude.

EmmaLee
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by EmmaLee »

Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 11:57 am
Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 7:30 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?
Several active, recommend holding, women from our ward marched in our cities 'women's march' - wearing those stupid hats, too - and posted photos of themselves (with their children, who marched with them) on Facebook for all the world to see. The most outspoken woman among them is the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric. I noticed several other active LDS women I know from states out west posted photos of themselves (and again, their children were with them, as well) marching in their cities, too. Makes me sick.
So labia hats are something LDS women in your ward like to wear?
Some of them - four, if I remember correctly. Makes me shake my hat-free head in amazement that we belong to the same church. Where is the disconnect?? It's no surprise, of course, that they all voted for Bernie, and then Hitlery, and made sure everyone knew about it (their husbands voted for them, too). One of our previous Primary presidents held one end of the big Planned Parenthood banner in our town's summer parade as they marched through town a few years ago - and this while she was Primary president - the sad and sickening irony should not be lost on anyone. But as I said, I saw on Facebook several of my friends from Utah and Idaho wearing the pink hats and marching, as well - so it's not just the liberal upper Midwest ward I live in.

Do they not get the tackiness of doing such a thing?
It's safe to say they don't get the tackiness of many things they do - this silly hat march just being one of them. From what I can tell, knowing all of these women for many years (some, for decades), this is nothing new for any of them. They all grew up active in the LDS Church - in Utah and Idaho, no less - and as democrats. It's almost more than I can stand to go to RS in my ward, as these women have the floor, basically - the loudest voices, and they are not at all afraid to bully the few conservative (dare I say, normal??) women in there. The current RS presidency would, I'm pretty sure, rather die than refute anything they say - or maybe they secretly agree with them - who knows. Speaking of tacky - and I'm generally not Pharisaical about such things - but the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric (the most outspoken and LOUD of these leftist women in my ward), has never once worn a dress or skirt to church, EVER. And she doesn't even wear nice dress pants - she wears old looking jeans and work type pants - and it's not because of lack of funds to buy a dress, as her husband is an engineer and she is a full professor at the university. Wearing pants to church for her is just her way of flipping the finger to "the man".

maybe they should have dressed as full vaginas (like many women in these marches did) and then come to a Church social?
Don't give them any ideas!! :roll:

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kittycat51
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by kittycat51 »

EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:44 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 11:57 am
Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 7:30 am https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 023061001/

Check paragraphs 4 and 5. I noticed some Mormon women participated in these marches. Are the marchers representative of mainstream Mormon women?
Several active, recommend holding, women from our ward marched in our cities 'women's march' - wearing those stupid hats, too - and posted photos of themselves (with their children, who marched with them) on Facebook for all the world to see. The most outspoken woman among them is the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric. I noticed several other active LDS women I know from states out west posted photos of themselves (and again, their children were with them, as well) marching in their cities, too. Makes me sick.
So labia hats are something LDS women in your ward like to wear?
Some of them - four, if I remember correctly. Makes me shake my hat-free head in amazement that we belong to the same church. Where is the disconnect?? It's no surprise, of course, that they all voted for Bernie, and then Hitlery, and made sure everyone knew about it (their husbands voted for them, too). One of our previous Primary presidents held one end of the big Planned Parenthood banner in our town's summer parade as they marched through town a few years ago - and this while she was Primary president - the sad and sickening irony should not be lost on anyone. But as I said, I saw on Facebook several of my friends from Utah and Idaho wearing the pink hats and marching, as well - so it's not just the liberal upper Midwest ward I live in.

Do they not get the tackiness of doing such a thing?
It's safe to say they don't get the tackiness of many things they do - this silly hat march just being one of them. From what I can tell, knowing all of these women for many years (some, for decades), this is nothing new for any of them. They all grew up active in the LDS Church - in Utah and Idaho, no less - and as democrats. It's almost more than I can stand to go to RS in my ward, as these women have the floor, basically - the loudest voices, and they are not at all afraid to bully the few conservative (dare I say, normal??) women in there. The current RS presidency would, I'm pretty sure, rather die than refute anything they say - or maybe they secretly agree with them - who knows. Speaking of tacky - and I'm generally not Pharisaical about such things - but the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric (the most outspoken and LOUD of these leftist women in my ward), has never once worn a dress or skirt to church, EVER. And she doesn't even wear nice dress pants - she wears old looking jeans and work type pants - and it's not because of lack of funds to buy a dress, as her husband is an engineer and she is a full professor at the university. Wearing pants to church for her is just her way of flipping the finger to "the man".

maybe they should have dressed as full vaginas (like many women in these marches did) and then come to a Church social?
Don't give them any ideas!! :roll:
Wow, I'm speechless. :shock: It's a good thing I'm not in your ward. I could get myself into trouble with these women. (Yeah I know it wouldn't be Christ-like, but I have my limits.)

Gage
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Gage »

Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.

EmmaLee
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Posts: 10884

Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by EmmaLee »

kittycat51 wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:57 pm
EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:44 pm
Fiannan wrote: January 11th, 2018, 12:12 pm
EmmaLee wrote: January 11th, 2018, 11:57 am
Several active, recommend holding, women from our ward marched in our cities 'women's march' - wearing those stupid hats, too - and posted photos of themselves (with their children, who marched with them) on Facebook for all the world to see. The most outspoken woman among them is the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric. I noticed several other active LDS women I know from states out west posted photos of themselves (and again, their children were with them, as well) marching in their cities, too. Makes me sick.
So labia hats are something LDS women in your ward like to wear?
Some of them - four, if I remember correctly. Makes me shake my hat-free head in amazement that we belong to the same church. Where is the disconnect?? It's no surprise, of course, that they all voted for Bernie, and then Hitlery, and made sure everyone knew about it (their husbands voted for them, too). One of our previous Primary presidents held one end of the big Planned Parenthood banner in our town's summer parade as they marched through town a few years ago - and this while she was Primary president - the sad and sickening irony should not be lost on anyone. But as I said, I saw on Facebook several of my friends from Utah and Idaho wearing the pink hats and marching, as well - so it's not just the liberal upper Midwest ward I live in.

Do they not get the tackiness of doing such a thing?
It's safe to say they don't get the tackiness of many things they do - this silly hat march just being one of them. From what I can tell, knowing all of these women for many years (some, for decades), this is nothing new for any of them. They all grew up active in the LDS Church - in Utah and Idaho, no less - and as democrats. It's almost more than I can stand to go to RS in my ward, as these women have the floor, basically - the loudest voices, and they are not at all afraid to bully the few conservative (dare I say, normal??) women in there. The current RS presidency would, I'm pretty sure, rather die than refute anything they say - or maybe they secretly agree with them - who knows. Speaking of tacky - and I'm generally not Pharisaical about such things - but the wife of the 1st counselor in our Bishopric (the most outspoken and LOUD of these leftist women in my ward), has never once worn a dress or skirt to church, EVER. And she doesn't even wear nice dress pants - she wears old looking jeans and work type pants - and it's not because of lack of funds to buy a dress, as her husband is an engineer and she is a full professor at the university. Wearing pants to church for her is just her way of flipping the finger to "the man".

maybe they should have dressed as full vaginas (like many women in these marches did) and then come to a Church social?
Don't give them any ideas!! :roll:
Wow, I'm speechless. :shock: It's a good thing I'm not in your ward. I could get myself into trouble with these women. (Yeah I know it wouldn't be Christ-like, but I have my limits.)
I hear ya, sista!! I've gotten myself into trouble more than a few times with them, but I'm now beyond caring what any of them think. The day one of them attacked me for posting the Family Proclamation on MY Facebook page (I said nothing on any of their posts or pages - not a word - nor did I mention any of these women, ever, or even allude to them), was the day I realized the gap in the Church is widening very fast, and we best decide which side we're on and dig in, 'cause it's going to be a very bumpy ride.

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Jamescm
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Jamescm »

Widening in the Church, indeed. I'm glad for the "Teaching the Savior's Way" curriculum that the Church has been rolling out. I serve in the Sunday School presidency of our ward, and we've had wonderful success with the discussions in the teacher classes each month. The application of what we learn there varies, of course-old teaching habits are hard to break-but I think one thing that may enable people who openly oppose the gospel of Jesus Christ to hold teaching and leadership positions in the Church may be the old way of teaching.

When each lesson becomes a discussion, I hope it becomes hard to continuously twist the teachings of the prophets to openly allow any of the selfishness that socialism, feminism, or other "social justice" activities and attitudes. It may be that in some circles the majority of people in a group agree with what is wrong, but if so much as one sister in Relief Society or one elder in Elder's Quorum stands and bears testimony and educated explanation to true principles, that at least it can be said that all that could be done was done.

I loathe the idea of people opposing the work of the Lord and of freedom in ignorance. I would wish that everyone were forced to understand what they're doing so that if they still choose the easier, self-serving path, that they at least know what they're doing... But I suppose seeking and accepting light and knowledge is as much a part of agency as applying it.

Fiannan
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

Maybe if in LDS culture we tried to explain why the commandments are what they are there would be less members thinking that wearing a vagina on their heads was cool and praiseworthy.

gardener4life
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by gardener4life »

My first though seeing this is ...could this be a precursor sign of rebellion preceding the 'daughters of Zion will be cursed for their worldiness'? (See Isaiah and 2 Nephi for references...) I think this could be it. It is contrary to the plan of Salvation for women to reject the priesthood holders and try to supplaunt them from underneath. Yet many cultures do this before they fall big time. The scriptures signal and point out that the daughters of Zion will do something bad that makes the Lord think that they are either cursed or to be cursed. It is also a very sexual symbol. Sexual symbols are also idols, and have no place in family values.

We can't really throw out traditional family or family roles for a few people or for special interests. It's a serious breach of things we agreed upon as part of signing up to participate in the plan of salvation and it's Messiah.

Another thought...sometimes people do something questionable because of their children or relatives. It does NOT make it OK. But for some reason I've seen especially a lot of mothers will do crazy things for their daughters, and even sometimes their sons. There are deceived people in every culture and even a few turncoats that work against their own too.

Further isn't this also a subliminal display of sexuality as power, which is done in canaanite cultures that ancient Israel was warned about?

2 Nephi 13 compare with Isaiah 3

16 Moreover, the Lord saith: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched-forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet—
17 Therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will discover their secret parts. (Isn't the pink hat on the crown of the head of the daughter of Zion? And isn't she protesting traditional family when she was given more than anyone, to favor instead gender roles that are backwards?)
18 In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling ornaments, and cauls, and round tires like the moon;
19 The chains and the bracelets, and the mufflers;
20 The bonnets, and the ornaments of the legs, and the headbands, and the tablets, and the ear-rings;
21 The rings, and nose jewels;
22 The changeable suits of apparel, and the mantles, and the wimples, and the crisping-pins;
23 The glasses, and the fine linen, and hoods, and the veils.
24 And it shall come to pass, instead of sweet smell there shall be stink; and instead of a girdle, a rent; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a stomacher, a girding of sackcloth; burning instead of beauty.
25 Thy men shall fall by the sword and thy mighty in the war.
26 And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she shall be desolate, and shall sit upon the ground.

Fiannan
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

Further isn't this also a subliminal display of sexuality as power, which is done in canaanite cultures that ancient Israel was warned about?
Witchcraft and Paganism are growing at a tremendous rate in places like England and in the USA. Some is simply a form of nature worship (skyclad ceremonies on the first day of spring or summer), some mixes in what is being called eco-sex and others gravitate more to the darker sides of the esoteric. I have known hard-core fundamentalist protestant women become Wicca and there really is an intersection between these philosophies and feminism -- not saying all Wicca, Pagans or witches are liberal, I know an ex-Mormon woman who is a witch and she is a hard-core Trump supporter. However, the idea of replacing male-oriented religion with female generally is more towards the left.

As for symbols of sexuality many symbols today have their origins there. Not to freak you out but Osiris has something in common with temple spires and Islamic minarets; and the Washington Monument. The Washington DC Capitol Dome is a monument to the Pagan gods -- look it up, its true. However, female-oriented religion tends to be highly sexual. So getting used to either wearing hats that are supposed to represent vaginas, or even wearing full-body vagina costumes, does seem to have a Pagan context to it.

brianj
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by brianj »

Gage wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:02 pm Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.
No, having a temple recommend means that you claim to pay your tithing when interviewed.

I recall hearing about a woman who was caught violating the law of chastity, and some time after confessing her bishop caught her in a temple! She had the nerve to defend herself by saying her bishop hadn't instructed her to stop going to the temple!

I have been anxious about dating when my divorce is finally over because I have heard so many stories of single adults who go to the temple Saturday morning, go out on a date that evening, sleep together that night, and partake of the sacrament Sunday. I don't know how I'll be able to tell if a woman really is virtuous or is pretending to be so she can hold my attention.

TheSnail
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by TheSnail »

Hey Brian, the holy ghost can help a lot. I started all my courting with a phone interview, and asked open and great questions. You can also learn a lit about women by seeing how they treat thier family, and how tier family tarts them.

My wife was very kind and sweet with her family. They loved having her around. She even helped make peace when one of her problem siblings was arguing with his child.

Ask political questions, gospel questions, all the stuff you care about.

Also, good luck and God speed my friend. I know it's very tough.

brianj
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Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by brianj »

Thanks, and welcome to the forum TheSnail.

I am genuinely not interested in courtship. I am only interested in dating, making friends, and finding people willing to do the things I am interested in doing.
I know some people think all dating should be courtship. I was briefly in the LDS Divorce Survivors Facebook group, which I found rather hostile, and I vividly remember one woman expressing indignity at the idea of casual dating. She said that asking a woman on a date sends a very clear message that you are interested in a relationship with her, and she was serious! How are you supposed to know if you have any interest in a relationship before you get to know the person who catches your attention?

I think my best chance of finding an eternal companion is to become a friend to the right person and let that friendship turn into something more. I hope I can find a great woman and I'll wait to see what happens. But for now I just need a divorce that has dragged on for 13 months with no end in sight, to a very bitter woman who only seems interested in inflicting pain, to come to a favorable end.

Fiannan
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Posts: 12983

Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

I think my best chance of finding an eternal companion is to become a friend to the right person and let that friendship turn into something more. I hope I can find a great woman and I'll wait to see what happens. But for now I just need a divorce that has dragged on for 13 months with no end in sight, to a very bitter woman who only seems interested in inflicting pain, to come to a favorable end.
Once was in a ward with a man whose wife filed for divorce. She was one of those people who could really play the innocent act in Church, but she certainly wasn't. He went to his bishop who gave him the advice to "go for her jugular" in the court fight and he did. He wound up with full custody of his kids. Don't play nice and then regret it later.

gardener4life
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by gardener4life »

brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:05 pm
Gage wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:02 pm Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.
No, having a temple recommend means that you claim to pay your tithing when interviewed.

I recall hearing about a woman who was caught violating the law of chastity, and some time after confessing her bishop caught her in a temple! She had the nerve to defend herself by saying her bishop hadn't instructed her to stop going to the temple!

I have been anxious about dating when my divorce is finally over because I have heard so many stories of single adults who go to the temple Saturday morning, go out on a date that evening, sleep together that night, and partake of the sacrament Sunday. I don't know how I'll be able to tell if a woman really is virtuous or is pretending to be so she can hold my attention.
I would add my voice also to say that having a temple recommend DOES mean a lot. It's not a small matter. It represents also the idea that if the Lord came today, you are looking forward to him and trying to be worthy of it. It represents living worthy of being able to enter the Celestial kingdom and the definition of what the Melchizedek priesthood means whether holding it or tied to a family member that has it. Even if you are a sister you are tied to priesthood by either your father, your ward's support, or spouse. Compare with;

Doctrine and Covenants 107:20
20 The power and authority of the lesser, or Aaronic Priesthood, is to hold the keys of the ministering of angels, and to administer in outward ordinances, the letter of the gospel, the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, agreeable to the covenants and commandments.
18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—

I picked those verses to show spiritual things do matter. And you can compare that to living worthy of blessings & the temple.


I realize you might be a bit jaded probably because you see people not treating it seriously to hold a temple recommend or to enter the temple. And maybe you were calling them out on their poor examples. But it does mean a lot. Everything about the temple is wonderful and not something to treat lightly. I do think you were probably calling out how some people are going there while hurting their brothers and sisters. They will have their reckoning in due time by the Lord and won't get away with it.

brianj
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Location: Vineyard, Utah

Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by brianj »

gardener4life wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:56 pm
brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:05 pm
Gage wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:02 pm Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.
No, having a temple recommend means that you claim to pay your tithing when interviewed.

I recall hearing about a woman who was caught violating the law of chastity, and some time after confessing her bishop caught her in a temple! She had the nerve to defend herself by saying her bishop hadn't instructed her to stop going to the temple!

I have been anxious about dating when my divorce is finally over because I have heard so many stories of single adults who go to the temple Saturday morning, go out on a date that evening, sleep together that night, and partake of the sacrament Sunday. I don't know how I'll be able to tell if a woman really is virtuous or is pretending to be so she can hold my attention.
I would add my voice also to say that having a temple recommend DOES mean a lot. It's not a small matter. It represents also the idea that if the Lord came today, you are looking forward to him and trying to be worthy of it. It represents living worthy of being able to enter the Celestial kingdom and the definition of what the Melchizedek priesthood means whether holding it or tied to a family member that has it. Even if you are a sister you are tied to priesthood by either your father, your ward's support, or spouse. Compare with;

Doctrine and Covenants 107:20
20 The power and authority of the lesser, or Aaronic Priesthood, is to hold the keys of the ministering of angels, and to administer in outward ordinances, the letter of the gospel, the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, agreeable to the covenants and commandments.
18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—

I picked those verses to show spiritual things do matter. And you can compare that to living worthy of blessings & the temple.


I realize you might be a bit jaded probably because you see people not treating it seriously to hold a temple recommend or to enter the temple. And maybe you were calling them out on their poor examples. But it does mean a lot. Everything about the temple is wonderful and not something to treat lightly. I do think you were probably calling out how some people are going there while hurting their brothers and sisters. They will have their reckoning in due time by the Lord and won't get away with it.
Let's see if I can find a way to express myself that you will agree with.

Holding a temple recommend SHOULD mean a lot.
Holding a temple recommend worthily DOES mean a lot. But the fact that someone has a temple recommend doesn't mean they are worthy of it.
Holding a temple recommend unworthily means something very bad, but that may never be realized in this life.

I am sure we both agree that holding a temple recommend should mean a lot, but if anyone can lie to their bishop and stake president how much does it really mean? If I look at dating profiles and decide I'm interested in a lady who says she has a temple recommend (hypothetical, thanks to the endless divorce), should I immediately conclude she's a worthy person striving to live her best, or should I not immediately make that conclusion? If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

I think not having a temple recommend will be a criteria I use for filtering out candidates for dating, but if a woman has a temple recommend I will not accept it as proof that she's worthy. One thing I vividly remember from the Reagan era is the Russian proverb Доверяй, но проверяй, Doveryai, no proveryai, trust, but verify. I will try to trust, but I will verify.

Gage
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Posts: 702

Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Gage »

brianj wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:16 pm
gardener4life wrote: January 13th, 2018, 5:56 pm
brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:05 pm
Gage wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:02 pm Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.
No, having a temple recommend means that you claim to pay your tithing when interviewed.

I recall hearing about a woman who was caught violating the law of chastity, and some time after confessing her bishop caught her in a temple! She had the nerve to defend herself by saying her bishop hadn't instructed her to stop going to the temple!

I have been anxious about dating when my divorce is finally over because I have heard so many stories of single adults who go to the temple Saturday morning, go out on a date that evening, sleep together that night, and partake of the sacrament Sunday. I don't know how I'll be able to tell if a woman really is virtuous or is pretending to be so she can hold my attention.
I would add my voice also to say that having a temple recommend DOES mean a lot. It's not a small matter. It represents also the idea that if the Lord came today, you are looking forward to him and trying to be worthy of it. It represents living worthy of being able to enter the Celestial kingdom and the definition of what the Melchizedek priesthood means whether holding it or tied to a family member that has it. Even if you are a sister you are tied to priesthood by either your father, your ward's support, or spouse. Compare with;

Doctrine and Covenants 107:20
20 The power and authority of the lesser, or Aaronic Priesthood, is to hold the keys of the ministering of angels, and to administer in outward ordinances, the letter of the gospel, the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins, agreeable to the covenants and commandments.
18 The power and authority of the higher, or Melchizedek Priesthood, is to hold the keys of all the spiritual blessings of the church—

I picked those verses to show spiritual things do matter. And you can compare that to living worthy of blessings & the temple.


I realize you might be a bit jaded probably because you see people not treating it seriously to hold a temple recommend or to enter the temple. And maybe you were calling them out on their poor examples. But it does mean a lot. Everything about the temple is wonderful and not something to treat lightly. I do think you were probably calling out how some people are going there while hurting their brothers and sisters. They will have their reckoning in due time by the Lord and won't get away with it.
Let's see if I can find a way to express myself that you will agree with.

Holding a temple recommend SHOULD mean a lot.
Holding a temple recommend worthily DOES mean a lot. But the fact that someone has a temple recommend doesn't mean they are worthy of it.
Holding a temple recommend unworthily means something very bad, but that may never be realized in this life.

I am sure we both agree that holding a temple recommend should mean a lot, but if anyone can lie to their bishop and stake president how much does it really mean? If I look at dating profiles and decide I'm interested in a lady who says she has a temple recommend (hypothetical, thanks to the endless divorce), should I immediately conclude she's a worthy person striving to live her best, or should I not immediately make that conclusion? If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

I think not having a temple recommend will be a criteria I use for filtering out candidates for dating, but if a woman has a temple recommend I will not accept it as proof that she's worthy. One thing I vividly remember from the Reagan era is the Russian proverb Доверяй, но проверяй, Doveryai, no proveryai, trust, but verify. I will try to trust, but I will verify.

My comment was taken out of context. Having a temple recommend DOES mean a lot when it is granted to a member that was honest in getting it. The only reason I mentioned that it meant members payed their tithing was because I was unaware that paying tithing was something that could be lied about and gotten away with. My point was many lie to get a recommend and that changes how special it is for someone and how special it is for someone to go to the Temple, worthy.

Fiannan
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Fiannan »

Not sure why Mormons who identify with third wave feminism don't instead join a feminist-oriented Pagan group.

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Benjamin_LK
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Benjamin_LK »

Fiannan wrote: January 14th, 2018, 10:36 am Not sure why Mormons who identify with third wave feminism don't instead join a feminist-oriented Pagan group.

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The pressure isn't up to the fullest yet. The warning from conference in 2013 was that the full hatred and persecution of the early days of the church will return. By that point, it will be so inconvenient to be a member of the church that those who wish to keep their way of life will leave the church and join something else, or decide that the church is worth being in spite of the forces of the rich and famous gathering together and spitting at you from the great and spacious building.

Sunain
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by Sunain »

brianj wrote: January 13th, 2018, 9:16 pm Holding a temple recommend SHOULD mean a lot.
Holding a temple recommend worthily DOES mean a lot. But the fact that someone has a temple recommend doesn't mean they are worthy of it.
Holding a temple recommend unworthily means something very bad, but that may never be realized in this life.

I am sure we both agree that holding a temple recommend should mean a lot, but if anyone can lie to their bishop and stake president how much does it really mean? If I look at dating profiles and decide I'm interested in a lady who says she has a temple recommend (hypothetical, thanks to the endless divorce), should I immediately conclude she's a worthy person striving to live her best, or should I not immediately make that conclusion? If you were in my shoes, what would you do?
I think the opposite of this is also true. I know of quite a few members of he church right now that are temple worthy in all respects but do not hold a temple recommend, for various non-worthiness issues.

I also know of people that have temple recommends that shouldn't but it not my place to usurp the authority of the bishopric and stake presidency.

I think think pink hat issue and other issues like gossip are not being taken seriously enough by the church.
“a just God … granteth unto men according to their desire, whether it be unto death or unto life” (Alma 29:4).
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alm ... lang=eng#3
We will also be judged “according to the desire of [our] hearts” (D&C 137:9; see also Alma 41:3).
https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-princ ... t?lang=eng
The Lord also judges us by the desires of our hearts not just our deeds and works. If we desire things that are contrary to that which is true, right and just, then the judgement will match that.

These women are desiring change that is not good from what I've seen. Participating in a pride parade I believe also falls into this category. Personally I believe that they fail the: Do you associate with organizations contrary to the teaching of the church temple question, but lately, that question isn't being properly enforced.

tdj
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Re: Why the pink hats may be out???

Post by tdj »

brianj wrote: January 12th, 2018, 7:05 pm
Gage wrote: January 11th, 2018, 1:02 pm Having a temple recommend in the LDS church today doesn't mean much. It shows you pay your tithing is about all.
No, having a temple recommend means that you claim to pay your tithing when interviewed.

I recall hearing about a woman who was caught violating the law of chastity, and some time after confessing her bishop caught her in a temple! She had the nerve to defend herself by saying her bishop hadn't instructed her to stop going to the temple!

I have been anxious about dating when my divorce is finally over because I have heard so many stories of single adults who go to the temple Saturday morning, go out on a date that evening, sleep together that night, and partake of the sacrament Sunday. I don't know how I'll be able to tell if a woman really is virtuous or is pretending to be so she can hold my attention.
Just curious: How long after committing a sin is someone NOT supposed to go to the temple? If the bishop didn't take her recommend away, then he must not want her to stay away too badly. Personally, I think the temple is EXACTLY where a contrite and repentant person needs to be.

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